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Posted: 2/27/2015 10:38:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the relink. I hadn't read that one yet. Great article. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the relink. I hadn't read that one yet. Great article. +1. I shared it on Facebook just to stir up some of my libtard & fudd relatives. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 10:44:46 AM EDT
[#2]
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Why have you not been hoarding? Ammo prices have been cheap for a year now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's worse is that .223/5.56 is going to be sold out for months now thanks to these hoarding assholes who don't take the time to read anything. Why have you not been hoarding? Ammo prices have been cheap for a year now. I hate to be sorta like "nah nah nah" but I'm also scratching my head why members of Afcom, reportedly a savy group of gun owners, haven't been laying ammo in like mad the past year+ Then again, I scratch my head why many in GD don't understand out of battery or the importance of aligning a gas block. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 10:46:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hate to be sorta like "nah nah nah" but I'm also scratching my head why members of Afcom, reportedly a savy group of gun owners, haven't been laying ammo in like mad the past year+ Then again, I scratch my head why many in GD don't understand out of battery or the importance of aligning a gas block. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's worse is that .223/5.56 is going to be sold out for months now thanks to these hoarding assholes who don't take the time to read anything. Why have you not been hoarding? Ammo prices have been cheap for a year now. I hate to be sorta like "nah nah nah" but I'm also scratching my head why members of Afcom, reportedly a savy group of gun owners, haven't been laying ammo in like mad the past year+ Then again, I scratch my head why many in GD don't understand out of battery or the importance of aligning a gas block. Good point. I purchased several thousand rounds since the announcement at per panic prices. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 10:52:23 AM EDT
[#4]
88cpr for Q3131....
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=470489921 |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:01:26 AM EDT
[#5]
A Newbie posted in the AR Discussion forum that he bought 1000 rounds of .223 Holler Points at Cabela's Online for the pending ban on .223 and 5.56 ammo
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:17:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Newbie posted in the AR Discussion forum that he bought 1000 rounds of .223 Holler Points at Cabela's Online for the pending ban on .223 and 5.56 ammo Love dem Holler points! |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:18:08 AM EDT
[#7]
lol
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:24:19 AM EDT
[#8]
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I own page 100.  Well done young Jedi, well done. Both my Walmarts have ZQI. All over the news. Another 700 rounds this am, just cuz.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:28:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A Newbie posted in the AR Discussion forum that he bought 1000 rounds of .223 Holler Points at Cabela's Online for the pending ban on .223 and 5.56 ammo 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:40:18 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll play devil's advocate here - here is the position the ATF might take 1. The projectile must be "larger than .22 caliber;” - A. .223>.22 2. The projectile must have a jacket that weighs more than 25% of the total weight of the projectile; A. Jacket is 19.8 grains according to mil-specs - that is about 32% of 62 3. The projectile must be fully jacketed; A. The SS109/M855 projectile is what is commonly recognized as FMJ 4. The ammunition must be designed and intended for use in a handgun. A. Designed for the AR style rifle which now is also commonly/widely available in a pistol configuration Don't shoot the messenger. I'm as pissed about this as anyone. I've been calling, faxing, writing, and emailing ATF and my Congress critters and also stocking up. They would be wrong on some: 1: Experts will point out that M855 is 22 caliber. No one is using thousandths of an inch 2: No issue here but it must meet all the criteria 3: Can't comment on this 4: M855 was not designed and intended for use in a handgun. Besides, a Bushmaster (verify) pistol was available in that era. There are at least two points that they cannot win on part (ii) of the USC law. Part (i) is even easier. The core is not 100% (weight or volume) of a specified material. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:43:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They would be wrong on some: 1: Experts will point out that M855 is 22 caliber. No one is using thousandths of an inch 2: No issue here but it must meet all the criteria 3: Can't comment on this 4: M855 was not designed and intended for use in a handgun. Besides, a Bushmaster (verify) pistol was available in that era. There are at least two points that they cannot win on part (ii) of the USC law. Part (i) is even easier. The core is not 100% (weight or volume) of a specified material. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'll play devil's advocate here - here is the position the ATF might take 1. The projectile must be "larger than .22 caliber;” - A. .223>.22 2. The projectile must have a jacket that weighs more than 25% of the total weight of the projectile; A. Jacket is 19.8 grains according to mil-specs - that is about 32% of 62 3. The projectile must be fully jacketed; A. The SS109/M855 projectile is what is commonly recognized as FMJ 4. The ammunition must be designed and intended for use in a handgun. A. Designed for the AR style rifle which now is also commonly/widely available in a pistol configuration Don't shoot the messenger. I'm as pissed about this as anyone. I've been calling, faxing, writing, and emailing ATF and my Congress critters and also stocking up. They would be wrong on some: 1: Experts will point out that M855 is 22 caliber. No one is using thousandths of an inch 2: No issue here but it must meet all the criteria 3: Can't comment on this 4: M855 was not designed and intended for use in a handgun. Besides, a Bushmaster (verify) pistol was available in that era. There are at least two points that they cannot win on part (ii) of the USC law. Part (i) is even easier. The core is not 100% (weight or volume) of a specified material. ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:45:47 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Love dem Holler points!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A Newbie posted in the AR Discussion forum that he bought 1000 rounds of .223 Holler Points at Cabela's Online for the pending ban on .223 and 5.56 ammo Love dem Holler points!
Holla.......Holla points |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:52:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855. Then in a lawsuit they would have to prove that just 10 gr of steel and about 42 gr of lead in the jacket makes just the steel the core. I suspect that common sense is that the core of a SS109 bullet is the lead and steel. Can anyone provide suitable proof that this is the case? |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:54:44 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll play devil's advocate here - here is the position the ATF might take 1. The projectile must be "larger than .22 caliber;” - A. .223>.22 2. The projectile must have a jacket that weighs more than 25% of the total weight of the projectile; A. Jacket is 19.8 grains according to mil-specs - that is about 32% of 62 3. The projectile must be fully jacketed; A. The SS109/M855 projectile is what is commonly recognized as FMJ 4. The ammunition must be designed and intended for use in a handgun. A. Designed for the AR style rifle which now is also commonly/widely available in a pistol configuration Don't shoot the messenger. I'm as pissed about this as anyone. I've been calling, faxing, writing, and emailing ATF and my Congress critters and also stocking up. They would be wrong on some: 1: Experts will point out that M855 is 22 caliber. No one is using thousandths of an inch 2: No issue here but it must meet all the criteria 3: Can't comment on this 4: M855 was not designed and intended for use in a handgun. Besides, a Bushmaster (verify) pistol was available in that era. There are at least two points that they cannot win on part (ii) of the USC law. Part (i) is even easier. The core is not 100% (weight or volume) of a specified material. ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855. It is my understanding that ultimately ATF rulings need to be upheld by Congress to have any weight as law. By the established federal definition of some thirty years it is NOT ARMOR PIERCING and the sporting requirements are UNCONSTITUTIONAL, notwithstanding that it's been a popular TARGET load since it came upon the civilian market. Ultimately Holder and Co. will be effectively shooting themselves in the foot here...or at least that should be the outcome if people actually do something other than neckbeard. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:56:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll play devil's advocate here - here is the position the ATF might take 1. The projectile must be "larger than .22 caliber;” - A. .223>.22 2. The projectile must have a jacket that weighs more than 25% of the total weight of the projectile; A. Jacket is 19.8 grains according to mil-specs - that is about 32% of 62 3. The projectile must be fully jacketed; A. The SS109/M855 projectile is what is commonly recognized as FMJ 4. The ammunition must be designed and intended for use in a handgun. A. Designed for the AR style rifle which now is also commonly/widely available in a pistol configuration Don't shoot the messenger. I'm as pissed about this as anyone. I've been calling, faxing, writing, and emailing ATF and my Congress critters and also stocking up. They would be wrong on some: 1: Experts will point out that M855 is 22 caliber. No one is using thousandths of an inch 2: No issue here but it must meet all the criteria 3: Can't comment on this 4: M855 was not designed and intended for use in a handgun. Besides, a Bushmaster (verify) pistol was available in that era. There are at least two points that they cannot win on part (ii) of the USC law. Part (i) is even easier. The core is not 100% (weight or volume) of a specified material. ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855.  |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:57:02 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Link hit, thanks for posting that Quote HistoryQuoted:
Link hit, thanks for posting that Thanks Smiley! I also sent a few faxes. -OZ |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:57:04 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then in a lawsuit they would have to prove that just 10 gr of steel and about 42 gr of lead in the jacket makes just the steel the core. I suspect that common sense is that the core of a SS109 bullet is the lead and steel. Can anyone provide suitable proof that this is the case? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855. Then in a lawsuit they would have to prove that just 10 gr of steel and about 42 gr of lead in the jacket makes just the steel the core. I suspect that common sense is that the core of a SS109 bullet is the lead and steel. Can anyone provide suitable proof that this is the case? |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:00:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the "core" would need to be more then 50% of the make up.. it aint.. http://www.gunsandammo.com/files/2012/03/Comparison-chart.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: SNIP. ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855. http://www.gunsandammo.com/files/2012/03/Comparison-chart.jpg I am familiar with M855 construction, whether it's right or not ATF has stated the steel penetrator qualifies it for section (i) of the law. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:07:08 PM EDT
[#19]
I have been saying for over a decade that ammo will be worth its weight in gold and so far, I haven't been proven wrong. Unfortunately
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:43:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ultimately Holder and Co. will be effectively shooting themselves in the foot here...or at least that should be the outcome if people actually do something other than neckbeard. I can buy ammo and work on my ATF response. I have until 16 March. Unlike those who want to fire full salvos early on...which helps....I am waiting to get better info to make a strong case. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:43:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hate to be sorta like "nah nah nah" but I'm also scratching my head why members of Afcom, reportedly a savy group of gun owners, haven't been laying ammo in like mad the past year+ Then again, I scratch my head why many in GD don't understand out of battery or the importance of aligning a gas block. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's worse is that .223/5.56 is going to be sold out for months now thanks to these hoarding assholes who don't take the time to read anything. Why have you not been hoarding? Ammo prices have been cheap for a year now. I hate to be sorta like "nah nah nah" but I'm also scratching my head why members of Afcom, reportedly a savy group of gun owners, haven't been laying ammo in like mad the past year+ Then again, I scratch my head why many in GD don't understand out of battery or the importance of aligning a gas block. I'm pretty well stocked, but not what I'd call my lifetime supply. It's at pre-Sandy Hook prices, but has been lower. Being in a recession, high unemployment, gun market is easing, ammo prices and copper prices have been lowering, I have been holding off from going gangbusters to see how low it can go. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:46:02 PM EDT
[#22]
What this issue needs is PITCHFORKS.
Not lawyers. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:48:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am familiar with M855 construction, whether it's right or not ATF has stated the steel penetrator qualifies it for section (i) of the law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
SNIP.
ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855. http://www.gunsandammo.com/files/2012/03/Comparison-chart.jpg I am familiar with M855 construction, whether it's right or not ATF has stated the steel penetrator qualifies it for section (i) of the law. It wouldn't be the first time they twisted the facts "because they say so" to achieve their goal. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 1:57:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Just got this email....
"Dear <EDIT>, Thank you for contacting me to share your thoughts on a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) proposal to ban certain types of SS109 and M855 cartridges. I appreciate your contacting me on this issue. On February 13, 2015, ATF released a proposed framework that would ban ammunition made of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium that can be used in a handgun. In addition to reclassifying these popular kinds of ammunition as "armor piercing," the framework also provides guidance as to what ammunition is "primarily intended for sporting purposes," in accordance with the Gun Control Act of 1968. I encourage you to share your thoughts directly with ATF so that they may also benefit from your views as they formulate a final proposal. ATF has assured me that they will carefully consider all comments received on or before March 16, 2015. You may submit your comments in one of the following ways: Email: [email protected]. Fax: (202) 648-9741. Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602 Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226 ATTN: AP Ammo Comments Again, thank you for contacting me. I will keep your opinion in mind should the Senate address this issue or other relevant legislation. For further information or to sign up for my newsletter please visit my website at http://warner.senate.gov. Sincerely, MARK R. WARNER United States Senator" |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 1:59:15 PM EDT
[#25]
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Just got this email.... "ATF has assured me that they will carefully consider all comments received on or before March 16, 2015." 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:03:41 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just got this email.... "ATF has assured me that they will carefully consider all comments received on or before March 16, 2015."
No shit. Talk about out of touch with reality. 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:15:16 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just got this email.... "ATF has assured me that they will carefully consider all comments received on or before March 16, 2015."
Sure. That is why ATF tried to frame this as a policy change instead of a regulatory change (because the APA requires a regulatory change give 90 days notice and answer each substantive comment) and also why the ATF refuses to even acknowledge they received any particular comment. Because they are so eager to carefully consider your comments. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:16:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Well it appears other ammo is truly being bought up too.
When I purchased 1000 rounds of Independence M193 from PSA last night they had a little under 12,000 twenty round boxes in stock. Just checked and they have a little under 700 boxes left.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:25:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well it appears other ammo is truly being bought up too. When I purchased 1000 rounds of Independence M193 from PSA last night they had a little under 12,000 twenty round boxes in stock. Just checked and they have a little under 700 boxes left. Many media outlets made it sound like they are banning all .223/5.56 so people are buying it all. True handgun rounds are being panic bought as well. And to think: last week some people here were claiming we were stocking up for no reason because "everyone knows about the M855 ban and there's still plenty in stock." 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:27:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well it appears other ammo is truly being bought up too. When I purchased 1000 rounds of Independence M193 from PSA last night they had a little under 12,000 twenty round boxes in stock. Just checked and they have a little under 700 boxes left. That is because people (and the media) are too stupid to understand the difference between M855 and all other 5.56 projectiles. Fox News had a short story yesterday about AR-15 ammunition being banned (no mention of M855 or steel core). People who read that story, probably started panic buying any .223/5.56 that they could find. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:30:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Even Drudge readers were being told yesterday that common AR-15 ammo was being banned. I am sure the headlines are why they are panicking. I can't wait to see what the prices are like at the gunshow from Surplus Ammo and Arms in Tacoma.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:50:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is my understanding that ultimately ATF rulings need to be upheld by Congress to have any weight as law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is my understanding that ultimately ATF rulings need to be upheld by Congress to have any weight as law. Your understanding is incorrect. Congress first acted in 1968 with establishing the Gun Control Act (GCA) and again and again afterward by amending the GCA, for example with the Law Enforcement Officers' Protection Act (LEOPA). To go into effect BATFE's proposed framework for defining armor piercing ammunition (APA) requires no further action by Congress . The same is true for BATFE's further narrowing of the phrase "sporting purposes." In the context of the proposed framework, here is a perfect example of what BATFE is trying to "fly under the radar" as a "reasonable extension" of Congressional intent in 1968 when the GCA was passed: Consequently, it is not possible to conclude that revolvers and semi-automatic handguns as a class are “primarily intended” for use in sporting purposes. So, that 1911A1 Brian Zins used to win 12 national championships in bullseye competition at the National Matches in Camp Perry, OH is, by its design, not "primarily intended for use in sporting purposes" because it is not a single shot handgun. And this is true even though that pistol was used for a BATFE-recognized "sporting purpose," specifically "competitive target shooting." Why do I point this out? The statement about revolvers and pistols as a class not being “primarily intended” for use in sporting purposes is unnecessary in the context of establishing a framework for exempting ammunition under 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(17); its sole reason for inclusion is to fundamentally change the key criteria for importing firearms, specifically, that the firearm must have or be readily adaptable to a sporting purpose to be importable. Inclusion of the above statement sets the stage for imposing a ban on future imports of pistols and revolvers via Executive action (just like banning SS109/M855 ammo) outside the legislative and regulatory processes. Although this is a massive change in BATFE's criteria for what features make a firearm suitable for or adaptable to a sporting purpose, since BATFE says that is based on a part of the GCA already in the US Code, once again, Congress gets no say in whether it goes into effect. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:51:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then in a lawsuit they would have to prove that just 10 gr of steel and about 42 gr of lead in the jacket makes just the steel the core. I suspect that common sense is that the core of a SS109 bullet is the lead and steel. Can anyone provide suitable proof that this is the case? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855. Then in a lawsuit they would have to prove that just 10 gr of steel and about 42 gr of lead in the jacket makes just the steel the core. I suspect that common sense is that the core of a SS109 bullet is the lead and steel. Can anyone provide suitable proof that this is the case? 7N6, the tip is lead and the base is steel... banned M855, the tip is steel and the base is lead... banned Now, is the "core" the base or the tip? Or are they "dual core", to steal a phrase from Intel? Or, is it one core that doesn't consist "entirely" of materials from the naughty list (steel, iron, depleted uranium (as if), beryllium copper, tungsten...) in which case it doesn't fall under the law. They seem to be operating under the delusion that if it's steel, it's a core.. and if it's not steel, then it's a bunch of other stuff we can ignore. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:58:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Do we have any legislative actions going?
Removing ATF funding to redefine M855? This should not be hard to do via congressional action, and if attached to a reasonably important bit of legislation it won't get vetoed. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 3:08:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Misinformation about this is running rampant this morning. I went to Cabelas this morning since I was out and about. I was hoping to get some of the PMC @ 300/$99, but they've been out since 10 am yesterday (sale started yesterday). They did have some XM855 @ $10 box and PMC "battle packs" of 120 for $79!! Lots of 193-spec ammo around $9/box of 20.
One older gent tried to tell me that the big O had JUST THIS MORNING signed an Exec Order banning ALL 223/5.56 ammo! I tried to set him straight, but he just wasn't listening. Said he KNEW it because it was all over the news this morning. I couldn't bring myself to spend 50 cents a round on XM855, so I bought a can of XM193 at Walmart instead (I wanted to increase my ZQI stash, but there was none). Rob |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 3:20:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Misinformation about this is running rampant this morning. I went to Cabelas this morning since I was out and about. I was hoping to get some of the PMC @ 300/$99, but they've been out since 10 am yesterday (sale started yesterday). They did have some XM855 @ $10 box and PMC "battle packs" of 120 for $79!! Lots of 193-spec ammo around $9/box of 20. One older gent tried to tell me that the big O had JUST THIS MORNING signed an Exec Order banning ALL 223/5.56 ammo! I tried to set him straight, but he just wasn't listening. Said he KNEW it because it was all over the news this morning. I couldn't bring myself to spend 50 cents a round on XM855, so I bought a can of XM193 at Walmart instead (I wanted to increase my ZQI stash, but there was none). Rob Exactly the same thing here. While getting ammo in two different places, people came up to me and mentioned the Obama ban on all AR ammo. Silly rabbits. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:03:21 PM EDT
[#37]
"4. The ammunition must be designed and intended for use in a handgun. "
5.56 NATO/.223 Remington was never designed and intended to be used in a handgun. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:31:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly the same thing here. While getting ammo in two different places, people came up to me and mentioned the Obama ban on all AR ammo. Silly rabbits. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Misinformation about this is running rampant this morning. I went to Cabelas this morning since I was out and about. I was hoping to get some of the PMC @ 300/$99, but they've been out since 10 am yesterday (sale started yesterday). They did have some XM855 @ $10 box and PMC "battle packs" of 120 for $79!! Lots of 193-spec ammo around $9/box of 20. One older gent tried to tell me that the big O had JUST THIS MORNING signed an Exec Order banning ALL 223/5.56 ammo! I tried to set him straight, but he just wasn't listening. Said he KNEW it because it was all over the news this morning. I couldn't bring myself to spend 50 cents a round on XM855, so I bought a can of XM193 at Walmart instead (I wanted to increase my ZQI stash, but there was none). Rob Exactly the same thing here. While getting ammo in two different places, people came up to me and mentioned the Obama ban on all AR ammo. Silly rabbits. It's beyond out of control at this point. We're basically at Sandy Hook levels of .223/5.56 supply - which is to say, there ain't shit available anywhere right now and I doubt anything WILL be for quite a while. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:32:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly the same thing here. While getting ammo in two different places, people came up to me and mentioned the Obama ban on all AR ammo. Silly rabbits. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Misinformation about this is running rampant this morning. I went to Cabelas this morning since I was out and about. I was hoping to get some of the PMC @ 300/$99, but they've been out since 10 am yesterday (sale started yesterday). They did have some XM855 @ $10 box and PMC "battle packs" of 120 for $79!! Lots of 193-spec ammo around $9/box of 20. One older gent tried to tell me that the big O had JUST THIS MORNING signed an Exec Order banning ALL 223/5.56 ammo! I tried to set him straight, but he just wasn't listening. Said he KNEW it because it was all over the news this morning. I couldn't bring myself to spend 50 cents a round on XM855, so I bought a can of XM193 at Walmart instead (I wanted to increase my ZQI stash, but there was none). Rob Exactly the same thing here. While getting ammo in two different places, people came up to me and mentioned the Obama ban on all AR ammo. Silly rabbits. Some of the headlines for this story just say "Obama to ban AR-15 Ammo blah blah" - no wonder people are going ape shit and buying up everything.... The first great panic of 2015 has commenced (and it's because of misinformation largely). |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:43:55 PM EDT
[#40]
I called my Congresscritter's DC office today and told the staffer I expected the Congressman to insert a rider into the DHS bill which would specifically prohibit BATFE from banning ANY kind of rifle ammunition WHATSOEVER. The staffer didn't know (or didn't want to say) how the Congressman was going to vote on the DHS funding issue. I suspect he's planning to cave, just like he did with the Croni-bus bill. All hat, no cattle.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:53:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even Drudge readers were being told yesterday that common AR-15 ammo was being banned. I am sure the headlines are why they are panicking. I can't wait to see what the prices are like at the gunshow from Surplus Ammo and Arms in Tacoma. The report is correct if not specific. The M855 ammo is one of the most common rounds you used to see sold in any quantity other the 193. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:53:03 PM EDT
[#42]
I don't think all the confusion making people think all 5.56 is being banned is a bad thing outside of the obvious short term ammo supply.
It'll get more widespread attention and make more people take notice. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:54:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Another third hand input that the bad news reports have elevated this panic to almost all .223/5.56
Talked to my Walmart sporting goods guy today and the run on all .223/5.56 started around noon yesterday. People were saying all this ammo would be banned or a law was just signed banning it. Yesterday morning there was ZQI SS109, Federal 100 round boxes of .223, possibly a can or two of M193. All gone today. The only thing left was American Eagle .223 30 rounds for $14.47 or so and some Winchester match grade. This is just one store but this panic has gone farther than I was hoping...although some probably predicted it. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:55:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think all the confusion making people think all 5.56 is being banned is a bad thing outside of the obvious short term ammo supply. It'll get more widespread attention and make more people take notice. It means another shortage event of unknown duration and impact on pricing. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:58:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Wrote my congressmen and faxed the letter through the links earlier in this post.
Almost 20K in faxes have been sent. Lets keep it up! |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:04:12 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF's position is that the steel penetrator is a core and that is what is being banned. ATF holds the upper hand as they are the regulatory agency. Part (i) is the portion being used to ban M855. The late, great Johnny Cochran would say, "If the core is split you must acquit." That's what I told ATF and my congresscritter. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:22:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, for what it's worth, just sent my Congressman an email through the NRA ILA's website asking him to join the opposition letter. He is a CA D, but he's a rural D with a less-bad record on guns, so maybe he'll jump the right way this time. Gotta try, right? ETA: link to NRA page: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150225/urge-your-representative-to-join-congressional-response-to-batfe-ammo-ban I did the same thing with my Congress-scum "Gerry The Drunk." Got back his usual BS form e-mail full of lies about how NRA members support "common-sense" gun control. 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:59:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is because people (and the media) are too stupid to understand the difference between M855 and all other 5.56 projectiles. Fox News had a short story yesterday about AR-15 ammunition being banned (no mention of M855 or steel core). People who read that story, probably started panic buying any .223/5.56 that they could find. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well it appears other ammo is truly being bought up too. When I purchased 1000 rounds of Independence M193 from PSA last night they had a little under 12,000 twenty round boxes in stock. Just checked and they have a little under 700 boxes left. That is because people (and the media) are too stupid to understand the difference between M855 and all other 5.56 projectiles. Fox News had a short story yesterday about AR-15 ammunition being banned (no mention of M855 or steel core). People who read that story, probably started panic buying any .223/5.56 that they could find. There is merit to this. Plenty of people whom I otherwise consider to be intelligent people are flooding FB with "556 to be banned" crap. But honestly, the panic buying of non 855/109 ammo was in just as full a swing by members here and across other online gun forums 2 weeks ago. As usual, the news has just now gotten wind of this and Joe 6 pack is late in the game while the rest of us have already received orders. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:00:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do we have any legislative actions going? Removing ATF funding to redefine M855? This should not be hard to do via congressional action, and if attached to a reasonably important bit of legislation it won't get vetoed. Plenty of us have been writing since this broke (2 weeks ago) |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:05:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just got this email.... "Dear <EDIT>, Thank you for contacting me to share your thoughts on a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) proposal to ban certain types of SS109 and M855 cartridges. I appreciate your contacting me on this issue. On February 13, 2015, ATF released a proposed framework that would ban ammunition made of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium that can be used in a handgun. In addition to reclassifying these popular kinds of ammunition as "armor piercing," the framework also provides guidance as to what ammunition is "primarily intended for sporting purposes," in accordance with the Gun Control Act of 1968. I encourage you to share your thoughts directly with ATF so that they may also benefit from your views as they formulate a final proposal. ATF has assured me that they will carefully consider all comments received on or before March 16, 2015. You may submit your comments in one of the following ways: Email: [email protected]. Fax: (202) 648-9741. Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602 Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226 ATTN: AP Ammo Comments Again, thank you for contacting me. I will keep your opinion in mind should the Senate address this issue or other relevant legislation. For further information or to sign up for my newsletter please visit my website at http://warner.senate.gov. Sincerely, MARK R. WARNER United States Senator" So in other words, your Senator is telling you to 'go fuck yourself, peon!'. Nice.
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