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Posted: 1/31/2015 7:50:15 PM EDT
[#1]
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Actually not so, there are several witness that were willing to state they saw Kyle punch Ventura, not so much Moody's claims. http://www.startribune.com/local/269697941.html Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gas station incident: http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2013/april/the-legend-of-chris-kyle-01?single=1 Mooney asked him about it, and his response was aparently along the lines of saying he didn't want to get into it. It also says the incident appears in Lutrell's book Service -- a Navy SEAL at War, though I haven't read it. He had plenty of opportunity to debunk it, but he didn't, because it fit the persona he wanted to project -- whether it was true or not. The Katrina story comes from an article Brandon Webb published on SOFREP, apparently directly quoting Kyle saying exactly what's been claimed here. He took the story down later. And there really is no evidence that Moody actually spoke to Kyle, either. We have two unsubstantiated claims and y'all want to crucify a guy based on that? What is this, DU? Actually not so, there are several witness that were willing to state they saw Kyle punch Ventura, not so much Moody's claims. The juror pointed to the statements of individual defense witnesses who claimed they saw or heard about the fight or Ventura’s alleged disparaging remarks about SEALs. In questions elicited by the defense, the SEAL witnesses said that while they once respected Ventura, they now held a very negative opinion of him. http://www.startribune.com/local/269697941.html You cherry-picked the shit out of that article for a quote you could use... |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 7:50:40 PM EDT
[#2]
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So you think Mooney made up the story about interviewing Kyle? That would be really easy to prove if that were the case, I wonder why no one has tried... Maybe because the interview happened, and happened the way he said it happened. The story didn't start with Mooney. It's been around for at least a couple of years. Mooney claims to have asked him about it. Neither story was "retracted". Webb just deleted the story and redirected all links to it to a story about the 82nd airborne. If he were going to "retract" it, he'd have printed a retraction. Webb was the primary source, he claimed to have been there when Kyle told the story. The carjacking story is in a book written by a fellow SEAL, Kyle could certainly have debunked that while he was alive, it's absurd to think that Lutrell didn't ask him about it before he published it. He chose to let that story stand, regardless of where it came from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And there really is no evidence that Moody actually spoke to Kyle, either. We have two unsubstantiated claims, one of which got his start from the other unsubstantiated claim (which was later retracted), and y'all want to crucify a guy based on that? What is this, DU? So you think Mooney made up the story about interviewing Kyle? That would be really easy to prove if that were the case, I wonder why no one has tried... Maybe because the interview happened, and happened the way he said it happened. The story didn't start with Mooney. It's been around for at least a couple of years. Mooney claims to have asked him about it. Neither story was "retracted". Webb just deleted the story and redirected all links to it to a story about the 82nd airborne. If he were going to "retract" it, he'd have printed a retraction. Webb was the primary source, he claimed to have been there when Kyle told the story. The carjacking story is in a book written by a fellow SEAL, Kyle could certainly have debunked that while he was alive, it's absurd to think that Lutrell didn't ask him about it before he published it. He chose to let that story stand, regardless of where it came from. If a person with a public persona, which Kyle was at that point, had to debunk every rumor or inuendo about them they would spend half there day doing so and then 1/2 the people would believe the person was only denying it because it was true. No win situation. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 7:51:50 PM EDT
[#3]
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So you think Mooney made up the story about interviewing Kyle? That would be really easy to prove if that were the case, I wonder why no one has tried... Maybe because the interview happened, and happened the way he said it happened. The story didn't start with Mooney. It's been around for at least a couple of years. Mooney claims to have asked him about it. Neither story was "retracted". Webb just deleted the story and redirected all links to it to a story about the 82nd airborne. If he were going to "retract" it, he'd have printed a retraction. Webb was the primary source, he claimed to have been there when Kyle told the story. The carjacking story is in a book written by a fellow SEAL, Kyle could certainly have debunked that while he was alive, it's absurd to think that Lutrell didn't ask him about it before he published it. He chose to let that story stand, regardless of where it came from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And there really is no evidence that Moody actually spoke to Kyle, either. We have two unsubstantiated claims, one of which got his start from the other unsubstantiated claim (which was later retracted), and y'all want to crucify a guy based on that? What is this, DU? So you think Mooney made up the story about interviewing Kyle? That would be really easy to prove if that were the case, I wonder why no one has tried... Maybe because the interview happened, and happened the way he said it happened. The story didn't start with Mooney. It's been around for at least a couple of years. Mooney claims to have asked him about it. Neither story was "retracted". Webb just deleted the story and redirected all links to it to a story about the 82nd airborne. If he were going to "retract" it, he'd have printed a retraction. Webb was the primary source, he claimed to have been there when Kyle told the story. The carjacking story is in a book written by a fellow SEAL, Kyle could certainly have debunked that while he was alive, it's absurd to think that Lutrell didn't ask him about it before he published it. He chose to let that story stand, regardless of where it came from. Around for years? Where? All of what you just typed still comes down to unsubstantiated second and third hand claims. Nobody has yet to be able to show a single bit of substantiated first hand account from Kyle. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 7:55:15 PM EDT
[#4]
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Smells like Webb is full of shit. Yet a healthy percentage of Arfcommers repeatedly bring it up in Chris Kyle threads and lay it out there like Kyle directly said it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Found the Katrina claim. The Long Shadow Of Katrina: Military Snipers Engaging U.S. Citizens? by Brandon Webb · April 15, 2013 · Posted In: Op-Ed In early 2012, I had an unexpected conversation with my friend Chris Kyle (author of American Sniper) about the Katrina debacle. I had heard rumblings about Special Operations snipers being deployed to New Orleans to support the effort to restore order. He confirmed the rumors and shared his own intimate knowledge that close contacts of his, many active duty Spec Ops snipers (some Navy SEALs), took leave to work for the controversial PMC (Private Military Company), Blackwater. Chris went on to tell me that the bulk of the guys he knew directly had racked up over thirty kills between them. I asked him about Rules of Engagement, and asked, “Who were they shooting at,” and he just gave me a big Texas shrug and smile. I figured out really quick that it was 180 grains of due process (usually to the head at 200M). http://wethearmed.com/military-and-law-enforcement/the-long-shadow-of-katrina-military-snipers-engaging-u-s-citizens/ Smells like Webb is full of shit. Yet a healthy percentage of Arfcommers repeatedly bring it up in Chris Kyle threads and lay it out there like Kyle directly said it. It's not just here I've seen it in mainstream articles in the media. There were only a little of 30 total bodies recovered with gun shot wounds from all of New Orleans after Katrina that included police shootings. Many people including myself worked for BW after Katrina there were no deployed sniper teams. He even used Jeremy Schaill as a source for this blog. The only shots fired by contactors in NO I recall were all ND's. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 8:01:19 PM EDT
[#5]
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You cherry-picked the shit out of that article for a quote you could use... No I didn't. I pulled out the portion that said Kyke had several witnesses that supported him. Are you saying that Kyle didn't have witnessed on his side? Because that was my entire point with the quote-to point out that Kyle did have people willing to support his side of the story. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 8:06:19 PM EDT
[#6]
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Around for years? Where? All of what you just typed still comes down to unsubstantiated second and third hand claims. Nobody has yet to be able to show a single bit of substantiated first hand account from Kyle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And there really is no evidence that Moody actually spoke to Kyle, either. We have two unsubstantiated claims, one of which got his start from the other unsubstantiated claim (which was later retracted), and y'all want to crucify a guy based on that? What is this, DU? So you think Mooney made up the story about interviewing Kyle? That would be really easy to prove if that were the case, I wonder why no one has tried... Maybe because the interview happened, and happened the way he said it happened. The story didn't start with Mooney. It's been around for at least a couple of years. Mooney claims to have asked him about it. Neither story was "retracted". Webb just deleted the story and redirected all links to it to a story about the 82nd airborne. If he were going to "retract" it, he'd have printed a retraction. Webb was the primary source, he claimed to have been there when Kyle told the story. The carjacking story is in a book written by a fellow SEAL, Kyle could certainly have debunked that while he was alive, it's absurd to think that Lutrell didn't ask him about it before he published it. He chose to let that story stand, regardless of where it came from. Around for years? Where? All of what you just typed still comes down to unsubstantiated second and third hand claims. Nobody has yet to be able to show a single bit of substantiated first hand account from Kyle. You won't believe anything about your hero unless it happened on video? Really? Webb wrote an article that said he was there when Kyle told the New Orleans story. Lutrell put the carjacking story in his book. These stories have been well known for years, he had plenty of opportunity to shut them down if he wanted to. He didn't care to, because they increased his legion of hero-worshippers. SEALs aren't gods. They're just people, and some of them make up sea stories. This particular sea story cost his family two million bucks. The idea that Jesse Ventura was in McPs at a SEAL wake and said that the SEALs "deserved to lose a few" is so fucking absurd even someone like JV isn't dumb enough to do it -- and yet, because Kyle, who you all worship as some kind of a hero, said it, it became the truth. Tiny bit of irony there, if you can see it over your hero-coloured glasses. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 8:08:04 PM EDT
[#7]
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No I didn't. I pulled out the portion that said Kyke had several witnesses that supported him. Are you saying that Kyle didn't have witnessed on his side? Because that was my entire point with the quote-to point out that Kyle did have people willing to support his side of the story. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You cherry-picked the shit out of that article for a quote you could use... No I didn't. I pulled out the portion that said Kyke had several witnesses that supported him. Are you saying that Kyle didn't have witnessed on his side? Because that was my entire point with the quote-to point out that Kyle did have people willing to support his side of the story. Yes, Kyle's buddies all claimed that something happened. No one else in the bar saw it, and if you've ever been in McPs you know how utterly fucking stupid that sounds. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 8:16:34 PM EDT
[#8]
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You won't believe anything about your hero unless it happened on video? Really? Webb wrote an article that said he was there when Kyle told the New Orleans story. Lutrell put the carjacking story in his book. These stories have been well known for years, he had plenty of opportunity to shut them down if he wanted to. He didn't care to, because they increased his legion of hero-worshippers. SEALs aren't gods. They're just people, and some of them make up sea stories. This particular sea story cost his family two million bucks. The idea that Jesse Ventura was in McPs at a SEAL wake and said that the SEALs "deserved to lose a few" is so fucking absurd even someone like JV isn't dumb enough to do it -- and yet, because Kyle, who you all worship as some kind of a hero, said it, it became the truth. Tiny bit of irony there, if you can see it over your hero-coloured glasses. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And there really is no evidence that Moody actually spoke to Kyle, either. We have two unsubstantiated claims, one of which got his start from the other unsubstantiated claim (which was later retracted), and y'all want to crucify a guy based on that? What is this, DU? So you think Mooney made up the story about interviewing Kyle? That would be really easy to prove if that were the case, I wonder why no one has tried... Maybe because the interview happened, and happened the way he said it happened. The story didn't start with Mooney. It's been around for at least a couple of years. Mooney claims to have asked him about it. Neither story was "retracted". Webb just deleted the story and redirected all links to it to a story about the 82nd airborne. If he were going to "retract" it, he'd have printed a retraction. Webb was the primary source, he claimed to have been there when Kyle told the story. The carjacking story is in a book written by a fellow SEAL, Kyle could certainly have debunked that while he was alive, it's absurd to think that Lutrell didn't ask him about it before he published it. He chose to let that story stand, regardless of where it came from. Around for years? Where? All of what you just typed still comes down to unsubstantiated second and third hand claims. Nobody has yet to be able to show a single bit of substantiated first hand account from Kyle. You won't believe anything about your hero unless it happened on video? Really? Webb wrote an article that said he was there when Kyle told the New Orleans story. Lutrell put the carjacking story in his book. These stories have been well known for years, he had plenty of opportunity to shut them down if he wanted to. He didn't care to, because they increased his legion of hero-worshippers. SEALs aren't gods. They're just people, and some of them make up sea stories. This particular sea story cost his family two million bucks. The idea that Jesse Ventura was in McPs at a SEAL wake and said that the SEALs "deserved to lose a few" is so fucking absurd even someone like JV isn't dumb enough to do it -- and yet, because Kyle, who you all worship as some kind of a hero, said it, it became the truth. Tiny bit of irony there, if you can see it over your hero-coloured glasses. It has nothing to do with hero worship and more to do with looking at things with a critical eye. Why do you insult me? I have been nothing but polite to you. Are you offended somehow by people with a different opinion than you? |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 8:22:10 PM EDT
[#9]
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The O'Reilly post from the other thread. And a link. And again, who the hell knows if O'Reilly is telling the truth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
bill O'Reilly claims to know 2 SEALs who saw Kyle punch Ventura and would swear to it. He named one of them ( ex-SEAL), but the other was on active duty so O'reilly wouldn't give his name. who knows? I hope Kyle did pop ventura's grape. The O'Reilly post from the other thread. And a link. And again, who the hell knows if O'Reilly is telling the truth. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 8:38:00 PM EDT
[#10]
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You won't believe anything about your hero unless it happened on video? Really? Webb wrote an article that said he was there when Kyle told the New Orleans story. Lutrell put the carjacking story in his book. These stories have been well known for years, he had plenty of opportunity to shut them down if he wanted to. He didn't care to, because they increased his legion of hero-worshippers. SEALs aren't gods. They're just people, and some of them make up sea stories. This particular sea story cost his family two million bucks. The idea that Jesse Ventura was in McPs at a SEAL wake and said that the SEALs "deserved to lose a few" is so fucking absurd even someone like JV isn't dumb enough to do it -- and yet, because Kyle, who you all worship as some kind of a hero, said it, it became the truth. Tiny bit of irony there, if you can see it over your hero-coloured glasses. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And there really is no evidence that Moody actually spoke to Kyle, either. We have two unsubstantiated claims, one of which got his start from the other unsubstantiated claim (which was later retracted), and y'all want to crucify a guy based on that? What is this, DU? So you think Mooney made up the story about interviewing Kyle? That would be really easy to prove if that were the case, I wonder why no one has tried... Maybe because the interview happened, and happened the way he said it happened. The story didn't start with Mooney. It's been around for at least a couple of years. Mooney claims to have asked him about it. Neither story was "retracted". Webb just deleted the story and redirected all links to it to a story about the 82nd airborne. If he were going to "retract" it, he'd have printed a retraction. Webb was the primary source, he claimed to have been there when Kyle told the story. The carjacking story is in a book written by a fellow SEAL, Kyle could certainly have debunked that while he was alive, it's absurd to think that Lutrell didn't ask him about it before he published it. He chose to let that story stand, regardless of where it came from. Around for years? Where? All of what you just typed still comes down to unsubstantiated second and third hand claims. Nobody has yet to be able to show a single bit of substantiated first hand account from Kyle. You won't believe anything about your hero unless it happened on video? Really? Webb wrote an article that said he was there when Kyle told the New Orleans story. Lutrell put the carjacking story in his book. These stories have been well known for years, he had plenty of opportunity to shut them down if he wanted to. He didn't care to, because they increased his legion of hero-worshippers. SEALs aren't gods. They're just people, and some of them make up sea stories. This particular sea story cost his family two million bucks. The idea that Jesse Ventura was in McPs at a SEAL wake and said that the SEALs "deserved to lose a few" is so fucking absurd even someone like JV isn't dumb enough to do it -- and yet, because Kyle, who you all worship as some kind of a hero, said it, it became the truth. Tiny bit of irony there, if you can see it over your hero-coloured glasses. A story he did not publish till after Kyle was murdered and then he swapped the story with that of another author when he was called out on it. A story he also used Jeremy Scahill as a source. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:43:45 PM EDT
[#11]
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I don't think it would have mattered after Kyle walked back the "deserve to lose some guys" comment. That was the one that I think Ventura was hurt the most by as it made him persona non grata in the SEAL community. Before that incident even Don Shipley accepted him as a SEAL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I believe it was a video deposition. ETA: Yep. " In the deposition, videotaped a year before his death, Chris Kyle said he could not remember who told him that Ventura had hit his head when he fell to the sidewalk, could not recall how he learned that Ventura had a black eye, and conceded that tables did not go "flying” during the 2006 confrontation in a bar near San Diego, which he described in his book "American Sniper.” While calmly stating that the fight had indeed occurred and that he had punched Ventura in the face, Kyle also conceded that Ventura may not have used a vulgarity in describing former President George W. Bush, which Kyle wrote in the book was one of the reasons he struck him." http://www.startribune.com/local/266448121.html Still don't know a jury would rule the same with live testimony. Where did he walk that claim back? He testified in the deposition that "you deserve to lose a few" were his "exact words". |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:48:45 PM EDT
[#12]
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It has nothing to do with hero worship and more to do with looking at things with a critical eye. Why do you insult me? I have been nothing but polite to you. Are you offended somehow by people with a different opinion than you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And there really is no evidence that Moody actually spoke to Kyle, either. We have two unsubstantiated claims, one of which got his start from the other unsubstantiated claim (which was later retracted), and y'all want to crucify a guy based on that? What is this, DU? So you think Mooney made up the story about interviewing Kyle? That would be really easy to prove if that were the case, I wonder why no one has tried... Maybe because the interview happened, and happened the way he said it happened. The story didn't start with Mooney. It's been around for at least a couple of years. Mooney claims to have asked him about it. Neither story was "retracted". Webb just deleted the story and redirected all links to it to a story about the 82nd airborne. If he were going to "retract" it, he'd have printed a retraction. Webb was the primary source, he claimed to have been there when Kyle told the story. The carjacking story is in a book written by a fellow SEAL, Kyle could certainly have debunked that while he was alive, it's absurd to think that Lutrell didn't ask him about it before he published it. He chose to let that story stand, regardless of where it came from. Around for years? Where? All of what you just typed still comes down to unsubstantiated second and third hand claims. Nobody has yet to be able to show a single bit of substantiated first hand account from Kyle. You won't believe anything about your hero unless it happened on video? Really? Webb wrote an article that said he was there when Kyle told the New Orleans story. Lutrell put the carjacking story in his book. These stories have been well known for years, he had plenty of opportunity to shut them down if he wanted to. He didn't care to, because they increased his legion of hero-worshippers. SEALs aren't gods. They're just people, and some of them make up sea stories. This particular sea story cost his family two million bucks. The idea that Jesse Ventura was in McPs at a SEAL wake and said that the SEALs "deserved to lose a few" is so fucking absurd even someone like JV isn't dumb enough to do it -- and yet, because Kyle, who you all worship as some kind of a hero, said it, it became the truth. Tiny bit of irony there, if you can see it over your hero-coloured glasses. It has nothing to do with hero worship and more to do with looking at things with a critical eye. Why do you insult me? I have been nothing but polite to you. Are you offended somehow by people with a different opinion than you? That's not really an insult -- you and others are over-wrought with hero worship for a guy who probably wasn't quite the guy you think he was. That's all I'm pointing out. Offended, no -- I don't really care about either one of them. They're just people like everyone else, they probably both did some good things and some things that weren't so good. They're both public figures, and one of them unquestionably made up a story about the other, and probably made up some other things too -- even if he didn't, he certainly let the stories be told without any rebuttal. I've been hearing the carjacking story for years, not on here but in real life. I always laugh and ask people if they know the secret DOD get-out-of-jail-free-for-homicide number that works even after you get out of the military, because I certainly never got it. Lutrell's book has the story in it, it's not some unfounded rumour that Kyle told the story, but the story is most certainly false. I look at everything with a critical eye -- I don't believe you are doing that, I believe you and others are blinded by hero worship. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:57:00 PM EDT
[#13]
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A story he did not publish till after Kyle was murdered and then he swapped the story with that of another author when he was called out on it. A story he also used Jeremy Scahill as a source. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And there really is no evidence that Moody actually spoke to Kyle, either. We have two unsubstantiated claims, one of which got his start from the other unsubstantiated claim (which was later retracted), and y'all want to crucify a guy based on that? What is this, DU? So you think Mooney made up the story about interviewing Kyle? That would be really easy to prove if that were the case, I wonder why no one has tried... Maybe because the interview happened, and happened the way he said it happened. The story didn't start with Mooney. It's been around for at least a couple of years. Mooney claims to have asked him about it. Neither story was "retracted". Webb just deleted the story and redirected all links to it to a story about the 82nd airborne. If he were going to "retract" it, he'd have printed a retraction. Webb was the primary source, he claimed to have been there when Kyle told the story. The carjacking story is in a book written by a fellow SEAL, Kyle could certainly have debunked that while he was alive, it's absurd to think that Lutrell didn't ask him about it before he published it. He chose to let that story stand, regardless of where it came from. Around for years? Where? All of what you just typed still comes down to unsubstantiated second and third hand claims. Nobody has yet to be able to show a single bit of substantiated first hand account from Kyle. You won't believe anything about your hero unless it happened on video? Really? Webb wrote an article that said he was there when Kyle told the New Orleans story. Lutrell put the carjacking story in his book. These stories have been well known for years, he had plenty of opportunity to shut them down if he wanted to. He didn't care to, because they increased his legion of hero-worshippers. SEALs aren't gods. They're just people, and some of them make up sea stories. This particular sea story cost his family two million bucks. The idea that Jesse Ventura was in McPs at a SEAL wake and said that the SEALs "deserved to lose a few" is so fucking absurd even someone like JV isn't dumb enough to do it -- and yet, because Kyle, who you all worship as some kind of a hero, said it, it became the truth. Tiny bit of irony there, if you can see it over your hero-coloured glasses. A story he did not publish till after Kyle was murdered and then he swapped the story with that of another author when he was called out on it. A story he also used Jeremy Scahill as a source. He could have retracted the story, and should have if he reported it incorrectly. He took it down because the story Kyle told was false and he got smacked for reporting it as true. Webb's a SEAL too, is he not a hero above telling sea stories because he doesn't have a "number of kills" attached to his name? |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:57:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where did he walk that claim back? He testified in the deposition that "you deserve to lose a few" were his "exact words". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't think it would have mattered after Kyle walked back the "deserve to lose some guys" comment. That was the one that I think Ventura was hurt the most by as it made him persona non grata in the SEAL community. Before that incident even Don Shipley accepted him as a SEAL. Where did he walk that claim back? He testified in the deposition that "you deserve to lose a few" were his "exact words". |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 12:04:56 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote History[b]Quoted: It has nothing to do with hero worship. I don't worsgip the guy, I'd spoken to him on a few occasions and had treated members of that team--I know more than most just how human they are. Unlike yourself, I'm not just going to condemn a guy based on unfounded rumors that all boil down in origin to the same couple of people. Sure you've heard them before, because they've been related over and over and over again. I find such an assumption and condemnation based on this demonstratedly filmsy evidence unChristian. How can you say you look at everything with a critical eye when you obviously do not look at these rumors and their origin critically at all? Didn't you say earlier that you didn't read Luttrell's book? |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 12:09:57 AM EDT
[#16]
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Someone said in the other thread about Kyle and Ventura that Bill O'Reily personally knows two SEALs that witnessed the whole thing and could verify its authenticity. Whether thats true and whether O'Reily is telling the truth I obviously don't know. If it is true it's very interesting. Either it didn't happena and Kyle lied, or it did happen and he recanted his story to maybe stop the lawsuit. We'll probably never really know which sucks for us, Ventura, CK, and his widow. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not sure the elments of the case either. I would have to read the transcripts from the case to know what evidence was presented. Were their witnesses that saw the altercation? Could he have presented irrefutable evidence he was no where near the place where the altercation allegedly took place? That being said, I am sure anyone here, in dealing with a defamation of character with certain legal implications connected to it that felt they were wronged would work to have that issue cleared up. The fact the Law, not Ventura, determined the course of the suit, is what needs to be takenninto consideration. If it was me I would have let the $$$ aspect slide simply to have the issue resolved. But as it sits, Lawyers & cases like this aren't cheap, so if he was in the right why should he have to pay for it? Law says the loser has to pay. She could have settled it out of court but she still chose to fight it. I could be wrong there but it seems logical. Like him or not, put yourself in his shoes if you wanted to run for public office but couldn't. People might not be so quick to judge. Personal opinions aside, as I could not care less either way, what is right is right. I agree not the wife's fault either, but the Law again determined the inevitability of the action. Someone said in the other thread about Kyle and Ventura that Bill O'Reily personally knows two SEALs that witnessed the whole thing and could verify its authenticity. Whether thats true and whether O'Reily is telling the truth I obviously don't know. If it is true it's very interesting. Either it didn't happena and Kyle lied, or it did happen and he recanted his story to maybe stop the lawsuit. We'll probably never really know which sucks for us, Ventura, CK, and his widow. Well that certainly has the ring of solid silver truth to it. Bill O'reilly says. Not that I have a dog in this fight, but what would sell even more books than the claim is getting sued over the claim and then proving it to be true in court through witnesses. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 12:11:17 AM EDT
[#17]
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He could have retracted the story, and should have if he reported it incorrectly. He took it down because the story Kyle told was false and he got smacked for reporting it as true. Did Webb tell you this or did you assume (ie made up) this reason? |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 12:34:14 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 2/1/2015 12:37:22 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 2/1/2015 12:53:52 AM EDT
[#20]
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It has nothing to do with hero worship. I don't worsgip the guy, I'd spoken to him on a few occasions and had treated members of that team--I know more than most just how human they are. Unlike yourself, I'm not just going to condemn a guy based on unfounded rumors that all boil down in origin to the same couple of people. Sure you've heard them before, because they've been related over and over and over again. I find such an assumption and condemnation based on this demonstratedly filmsy evidence unChristian. How can you say you look at everything with a critical eye when you obviously do not look at these rumors and their origin critically at all? Didn't you say earlier that you didn't read Luttrell's book? Quote HistoryQuoted:
[b]Quoted: It has nothing to do with hero worship. I don't worsgip the guy, I'd spoken to him on a few occasions and had treated members of that team--I know more than most just how human they are. Unlike yourself, I'm not just going to condemn a guy based on unfounded rumors that all boil down in origin to the same couple of people. Sure you've heard them before, because they've been related over and over and over again. I find such an assumption and condemnation based on this demonstratedly filmsy evidence unChristian. How can you say you look at everything with a critical eye when you obviously do not look at these rumors and their origin critically at all? Didn't you say earlier that you didn't read Luttrell's book? I haven't read Lutrell's book. I've read the excerpt from it where he tells Kyle's carjacking story. That's all it really takes. The story came from Kyle, not some reporter on the internet. The other story came from Kyle, and was reported by another SEAL, not some reporter on the internet. Mooney's another guy who talked to him about it and didn't get a denial from him, and reported that. I didn't know Chris Kyle, but I know plenty of other SEALs from my four years in NSW. If you're going to say the stories aren't credible, you need to say that to Lutrell and Webb -- they certainly believed he told them the stories. It's one thing to argue about whether the stories were true or not, but really you are the only person I've ever heard say that he didn't tell those two stories. Oh, and just for the record on Ventura -- here's Marc Lutrell when asked about the lawsuit...
"Mr. Ventura is my senior, and he's a SEAL. He is a Navy SEAL, and his trident is just as gold as anybody else in our community" He goes on to say a lot more about the case, basically said he's not going to do laundry in public, but he says he shouldn't take the money now that he won the lawsuit and achieved his aim in proving his case. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 12:54:36 AM EDT
[#21]
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Did Webb tell you this or did you assume (ie made up) this reason? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He could have retracted the story, and should have if he reported it incorrectly. He took it down because the story Kyle told was false and he got smacked for reporting it as true. Did Webb tell you this or did you assume (ie made up) this reason? You can very easily find where I got that information. It's common knowledge and it's posted on the internet. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 1:09:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Alex Jones is back-pedaling bigtime on this interview, asking what type of "pysyop" this is, etc.
Jesse Ventura claims that the biggest damage to him is that he is now PNG'd from SEAL functions, where he used to feel a brotherhood. Kyle specifically says he wishes he would have denied the incident with Ventura because he doesn't want it to keep detracting from the main message of the book. Alex Jones refers to Kyle as a "Master Sergeant", and continues to spout uninformed conspiracy gibberish that comes out of low-rate sensationalist novels that wouldn't even make the for sale rack at your local library. The more I look into this thing, the more questions come up. On one hand, it makes a lot of sense to get attention for the book. Then again, Kyle doesn't need the Ventura story for the book's publicity, but does he need the gas station story? Is it possible that Kyle really did have a connection with a phone number for LE to call because he has made political contacts in the normal line of his duties? Stranger things have happened. Barry Seale had George H. W. Bush's card on him when he was gunned down. So did Eugene Hasenfus when he was shot down over Nicaragua. Could Kyle have been approached by someone in the political establishment (like the Bush's or Governor Perry) and been given a get out of jail free card in Texas? ("If you ever run into any problems, just hand them this....") The whole thing is a mess. Oh, by the way. Alex Jones said in the radio teleconference that he, "Shoots deer at a 1000 yards all day long. It may not be Iraqi women at 2,600yds, but I shoot deer at a thousand yards no problem." If anybody ever doubted the credibility of Alex Jones, he eliminated any sense of believably in that broadcast. He has no sense of what military life is about, and has a construct based on the most outlandish stories and ideas that just don't bear any resemblance to reality. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 2:04:55 AM EDT
[#23]
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Ah, I see you cite Mike Mooney. How am I not surprised you cited Mike Mooney? Because all of the reading I've done about those particular myths all circle back to Mike Mooney. Let's look at the guy you cite as the gospel truth shall we? Mike Moody is a "crimewriter" who writes salacious articles with titles like "Arlington Swingers Club Shutdown for Zoning Violations" and uses Snopes as a reference that "proves" Mike Brown was not a violent thug in the video. He wrote an e-book that he published AFTER Kyle's death that is based primarily on second and third hand sources. Conveniently, the subject of his e-book was dead and could not confirm nor deny anything Mike claims, much less refute what he said. Mooney is the ONLY source that claims Kyle was in New Orleans. Mooney is the ONLY source that claims Kyle confirmed the carjacking story. Mooney just happens to be the author of a book about Kyle that didn't come close to selling like "American Sniper" and you think he's an infallible source of information about the man? He couldn't possibly be making up tall tales to sell a book, right? Moody claims that he first heard the rumors while listening in on a bar conversation of several NSW types of but none of those present of the event corroborated that at all and denied that they were talking about it. In Moody's own book he said that Kyle didn't corroborate the story at all but left "believing it was true anyway." No corroboration but believing it was true anyway--that's journalistic integrity for you. Thus, if you are going to insult my intelligence and integrity for doubting the uncorroborated assertions of a salacious, ambulance chasing "crime writer" and are credulous enough to take those assertions as gospel, I've got nothing that can enlighten you . One will not understand the truth unless one wants to hear the truth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thats bullshit, and you know it. On two different Kyle threads I have posted actual quotes of Chris Kyle saying it happened. Not heard from a buddy, not from a buddy of a buddy, but from Kyle himself. You are so bought in on Kyle that you dont want to see it or read it. Stop bullshitting others that may believe what you say. Post the references here so that we can discuss them in this thread. Are you so vehement that you take an antagonistic approach with a total stranger? Perhaps you are the one with the issue. Kyle: "You mean the time I shot two guys trying to steal my truck?" Vehement? Not really. I just like watching you claim he never actually said he did, and the fact you have nothing to answer when the links are provided. ETA: Previous Kyle thread where you white knighted him, and I linked to him saying he "...shot two guys trying to steal my truck." Ah, I see you cite Mike Mooney. How am I not surprised you cited Mike Mooney? Because all of the reading I've done about those particular myths all circle back to Mike Mooney. Let's look at the guy you cite as the gospel truth shall we? Mike Moody is a "crimewriter" who writes salacious articles with titles like "Arlington Swingers Club Shutdown for Zoning Violations" and uses Snopes as a reference that "proves" Mike Brown was not a violent thug in the video. He wrote an e-book that he published AFTER Kyle's death that is based primarily on second and third hand sources. Conveniently, the subject of his e-book was dead and could not confirm nor deny anything Mike claims, much less refute what he said. Mooney is the ONLY source that claims Kyle was in New Orleans. Mooney is the ONLY source that claims Kyle confirmed the carjacking story. Mooney just happens to be the author of a book about Kyle that didn't come close to selling like "American Sniper" and you think he's an infallible source of information about the man? He couldn't possibly be making up tall tales to sell a book, right? Moody claims that he first heard the rumors while listening in on a bar conversation of several NSW types of but none of those present of the event corroborated that at all and denied that they were talking about it. In Moody's own book he said that Kyle didn't corroborate the story at all but left "believing it was true anyway." No corroboration but believing it was true anyway--that's journalistic integrity for you. Thus, if you are going to insult my intelligence and integrity for doubting the uncorroborated assertions of a salacious, ambulance chasing "crime writer" and are credulous enough to take those assertions as gospel, I've got nothing that can enlighten you . One will not understand the truth unless one wants to hear the truth. So in short, I provide you with a quote from Chris Kyle, and the best you've got is to stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, and chant nuh-uh over and over again. So are calling Mooney a liar (and God damn it, get his fucking name right), that he didnt really interview Kyle on more than a few occasions? Can you provide proof that Kyle never said this? What about Luttrell's book mentioning this? And if Kyle never said any of those events happened, why didnt he say they didnt happen? WHy didnt someone from Kyle's entourage say they didnt happen? Why does a small town police chief, and Kyle buddy, countinue to say "it probably happened" when not one authority from Ellis or Johnson Counties say it happened? |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 2:07:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Alex Jones is back-pedaling bigtime on this interview, asking what type of "pysyop" this is, etc. Jesse Ventura claims that the biggest damage to him is that he is now PNG'd from SEAL functions, where he used to feel a brotherhood. Kyle specifically says he wishes he would have denied the incident with Ventura because he doesn't want it to keep detracting from the main message of the book. Alex Jones refers to Kyle as a "Master Sergeant", and continues to spout uninformed conspiracy gibberish that comes out of low-rate sensationalist novels that wouldn't even make the for sale rack at your local library. The more I look into this thing, the more questions come up. On one hand, it makes a lot of sense to get attention for the book. Then again, Kyle doesn't need the Ventura story for the book's publicity, but does he need the gas station story? Is it possible that Kyle really did have a connection with a phone number for LE to call because he has made political contacts in the normal line of his duties? Stranger things have happened. Barry Seale had George H. W. Bush's card on him when he was gunned down. So did Eugene Hasenfus when he was shot down over Nicaragua. Could Kyle have been approached by someone in the political establishment (like the Bush's or Governor Perry) and been given a get out of jail free card in Texas? ("If you ever run into any problems, just hand them this....") The whole thing is a mess. Oh, by the way. Alex Jones said in the radio teleconference that he, "Shoots deer at a 1000 yards all day long. It may not be Iraqi women at 2,600yds, but I shoot deer at a thousand yards no problem." If anybody ever doubted the credibility of Alex Jones, he eliminated any sense of believably in that broadcast. He has no sense of what military life is about, and has a construct based on the most outlandish stories and ideas that just don't bear any resemblance to reality. I don't think there's much question Alex Jones is a fucking loon. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 9:32:05 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't read Lutrell's book. I've read the excerpt from it where he tells Kyle's carjacking story. That's all it really takes. The story came from Kyle, not some reporter on the internet. The other story came from Kyle, and was reported by another SEAL, not some reporter on the internet. Mooney's another guy who talked to him about it and didn't get a denial from him, and reported that. I didn't know Chris Kyle, but I know plenty of other SEALs from my four years in NSW. If you're going to say the stories aren't credible, you need to say that to Lutrell and Webb -- they certainly believed he told them the stories. It's one thing to argue about whether the stories were true or not, but really you are the only person I've ever heard say that he didn't tell those two stories. Oh, and just for the record on Ventura -- here's Marc Lutrell when asked about the lawsuit...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdDW2HblKmg
"Mr. Ventura is my senior, and he's a SEAL. He is a Navy SEAL, and his trident is just as gold as anybody else in our community" He goes on to say a lot more about the case, basically said he's not going to do laundry in public, but he says he shouldn't take the money now that he won the lawsuit and achieved his aim in proving his case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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[b]Quoted: It has nothing to do with hero worship. I don't worsgip the guy, I'd spoken to him on a few occasions and had treated members of that team--I know more than most just how human they are. Unlike yourself, I'm not just going to condemn a guy based on unfounded rumors that all boil down in origin to the same couple of people. Sure you've heard them before, because they've been related over and over and over again. I find such an assumption and condemnation based on this demonstratedly filmsy evidence unChristian. How can you say you look at everything with a critical eye when you obviously do not look at these rumors and their origin critically at all? Didn't you say earlier that you didn't read Luttrell's book? I haven't read Lutrell's book. I've read the excerpt from it where he tells Kyle's carjacking story. That's all it really takes. The story came from Kyle, not some reporter on the internet. The other story came from Kyle, and was reported by another SEAL, not some reporter on the internet. Mooney's another guy who talked to him about it and didn't get a denial from him, and reported that. I didn't know Chris Kyle, but I know plenty of other SEALs from my four years in NSW. If you're going to say the stories aren't credible, you need to say that to Lutrell and Webb -- they certainly believed he told them the stories. It's one thing to argue about whether the stories were true or not, but really you are the only person I've ever heard say that he didn't tell those two stories. Oh, and just for the record on Ventura -- here's Marc Lutrell when asked about the lawsuit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdDW2HblKmg
"Mr. Ventura is my senior, and he's a SEAL. He is a Navy SEAL, and his trident is just as gold as anybody else in our community" He goes on to say a lot more about the case, basically said he's not going to do laundry in public, but he says he shouldn't take the money now that he won the lawsuit and achieved his aim in proving his case. And how do you know Luttrell didn't make it up to make his book sell better or they both made it up together or neither made it up but just repeating stuff they heard? My god, some of you guys need to look up the definition of "evidence" and compare that to the definition of "hearsay." With that I'm out and with a increased ignore list, thanks. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 11:57:31 AM EDT
[#26]
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He could have retracted the story, and should have if he reported it incorrectly. He took it down because the story Kyle told was false and he got smacked for reporting it as true. Webb's a SEAL too, is he not a hero above telling sea stories because he doesn't have a "number of kills" attached to his name? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A story he did not publish till after Kyle was murdered and then he swapped the story with that of another author when he was called out on it. A story he also used Jeremy Scahill as a source. He could have retracted the story, and should have if he reported it incorrectly. He took it down because the story Kyle told was false and he got smacked for reporting it as true. Webb's a SEAL too, is he not a hero above telling sea stories because he doesn't have a "number of kills" attached to his name? But if you read his story the part about Kyle was just the lead in to his over all story of government authority over the population during a disaster. Why wait till after he died to print the story? Because a dead man can't dispute it? Better to act like Kyle is the liar than the guy who is known in his community as a liar? Also the part that he quoted Scahill on has been proved a great distortion of what actually happened and it was well known to not be true. But he used it anyway to bolster his position in his opinion piece. So we have a guy who is known to tell stories by his own community, attributes a story about dead man and uses known false statements from a prejudicial source. I would not hang my hat on betting Kyle actually told that story. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 4:10:10 PM EDT
[#27]
I am going to go ahead and admit I had no idea that Webb was the source of some of the stories. He really rubbed me wrong.
I still don't know where to be on this whole deal. I was pretty upset when all the irregularities came out about lone survivor. I will never understand why people who lead honorable lives feel the need to lie although I realize they are just human. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 4:12:31 PM EDT
[#28]
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This JV is a POS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because Chris Kyle is dead and could not defend himself? This JV is a POS. Pretty much. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 4:14:02 PM EDT
[#29]
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not in the book, but on a few radio talk shows, yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Chris Kyle fabricated several stories. One of them involved Jesse the shitstain Ventura. That's why he won. Did Chris ever specifically say it was Ventura? not in the book, but on a few radio talk shows, yes. and yet, it was the book that Ventura supposedly won against...........that is fucked up. JV is an asshole. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 4:19:04 PM EDT
[#30]
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and yet, it was the book that Ventura supposedly won against...........that is fucked up. JV is an asshole. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Chris Kyle fabricated several stories. One of them involved Jesse the shitstain Ventura. That's why he won. Did Chris ever specifically say it was Ventura? not in the book, but on a few radio talk shows, yes. and yet, it was the book that Ventura supposedly won against...........that is fucked up. JV is an asshole. It was a combination of both the book and the statement. ProTip: If you don't commit tortious acts, it's really fucking hard to get sued. 
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Posted: 2/1/2015 6:33:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how do you know Luttrell didn't make it up to make his book sell better or they both made it up together or neither made it up but just repeating stuff they heard? My god, some of you guys need to look up the definition of "evidence" and compare that to the definition of "hearsay." With that I'm out and with a increased ignore list, thanks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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[b]Quoted: It has nothing to do with hero worship. I don't worsgip the guy, I'd spoken to him on a few occasions and had treated members of that team--I know more than most just how human they are. Unlike yourself, I'm not just going to condemn a guy based on unfounded rumors that all boil down in origin to the same couple of people. Sure you've heard them before, because they've been related over and over and over again. I find such an assumption and condemnation based on this demonstratedly filmsy evidence unChristian. How can you say you look at everything with a critical eye when you obviously do not look at these rumors and their origin critically at all? Didn't you say earlier that you didn't read Luttrell's book? I haven't read Lutrell's book. I've read the excerpt from it where he tells Kyle's carjacking story. That's all it really takes. The story came from Kyle, not some reporter on the internet. The other story came from Kyle, and was reported by another SEAL, not some reporter on the internet. Mooney's another guy who talked to him about it and didn't get a denial from him, and reported that. I didn't know Chris Kyle, but I know plenty of other SEALs from my four years in NSW. If you're going to say the stories aren't credible, you need to say that to Lutrell and Webb -- they certainly believed he told them the stories. It's one thing to argue about whether the stories were true or not, but really you are the only person I've ever heard say that he didn't tell those two stories. Oh, and just for the record on Ventura -- here's Marc Lutrell when asked about the lawsuit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdDW2HblKmg
"Mr. Ventura is my senior, and he's a SEAL. He is a Navy SEAL, and his trident is just as gold as anybody else in our community" He goes on to say a lot more about the case, basically said he's not going to do laundry in public, but he says he shouldn't take the money now that he won the lawsuit and achieved his aim in proving his case. And how do you know Luttrell didn't make it up to make his book sell better or they both made it up together or neither made it up but just repeating stuff they heard? My god, some of you guys need to look up the definition of "evidence" and compare that to the definition of "hearsay." With that I'm out and with a increased ignore list, thanks. So Kyle is the only credible SEAL? I'm not proving it in a court of law, I'm relying on the word of another SEAL that he told him the story. Dear god, take off the celebrity hero glasses and make an attempt to see the real world. And I notice you won't address Luttrell's statement about Ventura - that's a pretty strong statement against what you've been saying here, by someone who obviously dislikes Ventura very much. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 6:35:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am going to go ahead and admit I had no idea that Webb was the source of some of the stories. He really rubbed me wrong. I still don't know where to be on this whole deal. I was pretty upset when all the irregularities came out about lone survivor. I will never understand why people who lead honorable lives feel the need to lie although I realize they are just human. Lone Survivor was just a work of fiction. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 6:38:03 PM EDT
[#33]
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But if you read his story the part about Kyle was just the lead in to his over all story of government authority over the population during a disaster. Why wait till after he died to print the story? Because a dead man can't dispute it? Better to act like Kyle is the liar than the guy who is known in his community as a liar? Also the part that he quoted Scahill on has been proved a great distortion of what actually happened and it was well known to not be true. But he used it anyway to bolster his position in his opinion piece. So we have a guy who is known to tell stories by his own community, attributes a story about dead man and uses known false statements from a prejudicial source. I would not hang my hat on betting Kyle actually told that story. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A story he did not publish till after Kyle was murdered and then he swapped the story with that of another author when he was called out on it. A story he also used Jeremy Scahill as a source. He could have retracted the story, and should have if he reported it incorrectly. He took it down because the story Kyle told was false and he got smacked for reporting it as true. Webb's a SEAL too, is he not a hero above telling sea stories because he doesn't have a "number of kills" attached to his name? But if you read his story the part about Kyle was just the lead in to his over all story of government authority over the population during a disaster. Why wait till after he died to print the story? Because a dead man can't dispute it? Better to act like Kyle is the liar than the guy who is known in his community as a liar? Also the part that he quoted Scahill on has been proved a great distortion of what actually happened and it was well known to not be true. But he used it anyway to bolster his position in his opinion piece. So we have a guy who is known to tell stories by his own community, attributes a story about dead man and uses known false statements from a prejudicial source. I would not hang my hat on betting Kyle actually told that story. I've never before seen anyone dispute that he told the stories. You guys are going above and beyond to spruce up the reputation of a guy proven in court to have lied for financial gain. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 6:42:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Because Ventura was a crackpot conspiracy theorist with the accompanying reputation LONG before Chris Kyle entered the picture. Guys who are a part of that community are renowned for handling disagreements in-house amongst themselves, not dragging it out into litigation and making it all public knowledge. Furthermore, Kyle's untimely death made it impossible for him to defend himself.
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Posted: 2/1/2015 6:43:00 PM EDT
[#35]
I'm listening to Chris Kyle's book right now. So far so good. This guy was an American hero.
That said, it doesn't make him infallible. Some stuff sounds like bolshit. Like sniping people during Katrina (LOL!). I don't know why he lied. With respect to Ventura, I think Ventura asked him to recant the story, and Kyle refused. The only recourse Ventura had was to sue. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 7:19:33 PM EDT
[#36]
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Because Ventura was a crackpot conspiracy theorist with the accompanying reputation LONG before Chris Kyle entered the picture. Guys who are a part of that community are renowned for handling disagreements in-house amongst themselves, not dragging it out into litigation and making it all public knowledge. Furthermore, Kyle's untimely death made it impossible for him to defend himself They probably also have a policy of not running their mouths about bullshit claims in front of national audiences. Kyle was alive when the suit was filed. He had ample opportunity to stop this. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 11:10:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because Ventura was a crackpot conspiracy theorist with the accompanying reputation LONG before Chris Kyle entered the picture. Guys who are a part of that community are renowned for handling disagreements in-house amongst themselves, not dragging it out into litigation and making it all public knowledge. Furthermore, Kyle's untimely death made it impossible for him to defend himself. Watch the video I posted above. Luttrell basically explains why Ventura did what he did, even though he doesn't agree with it. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 11:22:25 PM EDT
[#38]
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Watch the video I posted above. Luttrell basically explains why Ventura did what he did, even though he doesn't agree with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because Ventura was a crackpot conspiracy theorist with the accompanying reputation LONG before Chris Kyle entered the picture. Guys who are a part of that community are renowned for handling disagreements in-house amongst themselves, not dragging it out into litigation and making it all public knowledge. Furthermore, Kyle's untimely death made it impossible for him to defend himself. Watch the video I posted above. Luttrell basically explains why Ventura did what he did, even though he doesn't agree with it. Feels Uber Alles |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 12:39:09 AM EDT
[#39]
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I've never before seen anyone dispute that he told the stories. You guys are going above and beyond to spruce up the reputation of a guy proven in court to have lied for financial gain. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But if you read his story the part about Kyle was just the lead in to his over all story of government authority over the population during a disaster. Why wait till after he died to print the story? Because a dead man can't dispute it? Better to act like Kyle is the liar than the guy who is known in his community as a liar? Also the part that he quoted Scahill on has been proved a great distortion of what actually happened and it was well known to not be true. But he used it anyway to bolster his position in his opinion piece. So we have a guy who is known to tell stories by his own community, attributes a story about dead man and uses known false statements from a prejudicial source. I would not hang my hat on betting Kyle actually told that story. I've never before seen anyone dispute that he told the stories. You guys are going above and beyond to spruce up the reputation of a guy proven in court to have lied for financial gain. I'm not willing to believe a person who posts a supposed conversation that even just a little bit of fact checking would bring those claims into doubt. Who then used another person who we know exaggerates and flat out fabricates stories about BW as a source to back up his story. Also the deceased never got to tell his story in court. I don't know about the other stories but the Katrina story brought about immidate bullshit flags when he made it public. I don't think he expected anyone to call him on the story. |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 1:53:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Feels Uber Alles Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Because Ventura was a crackpot conspiracy theorist with the accompanying reputation LONG before Chris Kyle entered the picture. Guys who are a part of that community are renowned for handling disagreements in-house amongst themselves, not dragging it out into litigation and making it all public knowledge. Furthermore, Kyle's untimely death made it impossible for him to defend himself. Watch the video I posted above. Luttrell basically explains why Ventura did what he did, even though he doesn't agree with it. Feels Uber Alles Okay, duly noted on both points that m_s pointed out and the video above. I am now to understand the altercation between Kyle and Ventura was a fabrication on Kyle's behalf?
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Posted: 2/2/2015 2:10:12 AM EDT
[#41]
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Okay, duly noted on both points that m_s pointed out and the video above. I am now to understand the altercation between Kyle and Ventura was a fabrication on Kyle's behalf? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because Ventura was a crackpot conspiracy theorist with the accompanying reputation LONG before Chris Kyle entered the picture. Guys who are a part of that community are renowned for handling disagreements in-house amongst themselves, not dragging it out into litigation and making it all public knowledge. Furthermore, Kyle's untimely death made it impossible for him to defend himself. Watch the video I posted above. Luttrell basically explains why Ventura did what he did, even though he doesn't agree with it. Feels Uber Alles Okay, duly noted on both points that m_s pointed out and the video above. I am now to understand the altercation between Kyle and Ventura was a fabrication on Kyle's behalf? If it wasn't, it was probably far less dramatic. I think Aimless was right: maybe some finger poking and some hurt feeler bugs. |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 2:17:45 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it wasn't, it was probably far less dramatic. I think Aimless was right: maybe some finger poking and some hurt feeler bugs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Because Ventura was a crackpot conspiracy theorist with the accompanying reputation LONG before Chris Kyle entered the picture. Guys who are a part of that community are renowned for handling disagreements in-house amongst themselves, not dragging it out into litigation and making it all public knowledge. Furthermore, Kyle's untimely death made it impossible for him to defend himself. Watch the video I posted above. Luttrell basically explains why Ventura did what he did, even though he doesn't agree with it. Feels Uber Alles Okay, duly noted on both points that m_s pointed out and the video above. I am now to understand the altercation between Kyle and Ventura was a fabrication on Kyle's behalf? If it wasn't, it was probably far less dramatic. I think Aimless was right: maybe some finger poking and some hurt feeler bugs. I could totally see that being the case.
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Posted: 2/2/2015 2:37:06 AM EDT
[#43]
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So Kyle is the only credible SEAL? I'm not proving it in a court of law, I'm relying on the word of another SEAL that he told him the story. Dear god, take off the celebrity hero glasses and make an attempt to see the real world. And I notice you won't address Luttrell's statement about Ventura - that's a pretty strong statement against what you've been saying here, by someone who obviously dislikes Ventura very much. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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[b]Quoted: It has nothing to do with hero worship. I don't worsgip the guy, I'd spoken to him on a few occasions and had treated members of that team--I know more than most just how human they are. Unlike yourself, I'm not just going to condemn a guy based on unfounded rumors that all boil down in origin to the same couple of people. Sure you've heard them before, because they've been related over and over and over again. I find such an assumption and condemnation based on this demonstratedly filmsy evidence unChristian. How can you say you look at everything with a critical eye when you obviously do not look at these rumors and their origin critically at all? Didn't you say earlier that you didn't read Luttrell's book? I haven't read Lutrell's book. I've read the excerpt from it where he tells Kyle's carjacking story. That's all it really takes. The story came from Kyle, not some reporter on the internet. The other story came from Kyle, and was reported by another SEAL, not some reporter on the internet. Mooney's another guy who talked to him about it and didn't get a denial from him, and reported that. I didn't know Chris Kyle, but I know plenty of other SEALs from my four years in NSW. If you're going to say the stories aren't credible, you need to say that to Lutrell and Webb -- they certainly believed he told them the stories. It's one thing to argue about whether the stories were true or not, but really you are the only person I've ever heard say that he didn't tell those two stories. Oh, and just for the record on Ventura -- here's Marc Lutrell when asked about the lawsuit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdDW2HblKmg
"Mr. Ventura is my senior, and he's a SEAL. He is a Navy SEAL, and his trident is just as gold as anybody else in our community" He goes on to say a lot more about the case, basically said he's not going to do laundry in public, but he says he shouldn't take the money now that he won the lawsuit and achieved his aim in proving his case. And how do you know Luttrell didn't make it up to make his book sell better or they both made it up together or neither made it up but just repeating stuff they heard? My god, some of you guys need to look up the definition of "evidence" and compare that to the definition of "hearsay." With that I'm out and with a increased ignore list, thanks. So Kyle is the only credible SEAL? I'm not proving it in a court of law, I'm relying on the word of another SEAL that he told him the story. Dear god, take off the celebrity hero glasses and make an attempt to see the real world. And I notice you won't address Luttrell's statement about Ventura - that's a pretty strong statement against what you've been saying here, by someone who obviously dislikes Ventura very much. I kind of get your point, but don't be an asshole about it. |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 3:07:07 AM EDT
[#44]
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Okay, duly noted on both points that m_s pointed out and the video above. I am now to understand the altercation between Kyle and Ventura was a fabrication on Kyle's behalf? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because Ventura was a crackpot conspiracy theorist with the accompanying reputation LONG before Chris Kyle entered the picture. Guys who are a part of that community are renowned for handling disagreements in-house amongst themselves, not dragging it out into litigation and making it all public knowledge. Furthermore, Kyle's untimely death made it impossible for him to defend himself. Watch the video I posted above. Luttrell basically explains why Ventura did what he did, even though he doesn't agree with it. Feels Uber Alles Okay, duly noted on both points that m_s pointed out and the video above. I am now to understand the altercation between Kyle and Ventura was a fabrication on Kyle's behalf? There was probably an altercation -- the thing is, that wasn't the real issue. The issue was what Kyle claimed Ventura said -- that's what didn't happen. |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 3:07:39 AM EDT
[#45]
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I kind of get your point, but don't be an asshole about it. That's me being nice. |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 3:58:19 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chris Kyle fabricated several stories. One of them involved Jesse the shitstain Ventura. That's why he won.  |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 9:09:17 AM EDT
[#47]
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Chris Kyle fabricated several stories. One of them involved Jesse the shitstain Ventura. That's why he won.
You don't say. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 9:11:58 AM EDT
[#48]
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Ya Chris Kyle may have had his issues but no one is gonna respect a guy who continues to go after a widow. Whether he's in the right or not doesn't matter; people aren't going to like that and will think it's a shitty thing to do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think a lot of hate has to do with the fact that he's a faggot in every other aspect of his life too. Yep. I actually think he is correct, but I wish he wasn't allowed to keep the money, simply for continuing the civil action against Kyle's wife after his murder. *Chris Kyle supporter, don't take that post the wrong way. Ya Chris Kyle may have had his issues but no one is gonna respect a guy who continues to go after a widow. Whether he's in the right or not doesn't matter; people aren't going to like that and will think it's a shitty thing to do. This. The guy died. That's way more than I'd want, and I'd never go after a widow. That's just dirty. |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 10:17:11 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. The guy died. That's way more than I'd want, and I'd never go after a widow. That's just dirty. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think a lot of hate has to do with the fact that he's a faggot in every other aspect of his life too. Yep. I actually think he is correct, but I wish he wasn't allowed to keep the money, simply for continuing the civil action against Kyle's wife after his murder. *Chris Kyle supporter, don't take that post the wrong way. Ya Chris Kyle may have had his issues but no one is gonna respect a guy who continues to go after a widow. Whether he's in the right or not doesn't matter; people aren't going to like that and will think it's a shitty thing to do. This. The guy died. That's way more than I'd want, and I'd never go after a widow. That's just dirty. The Marcus Luttrell interview said it all: If all you were after was to clear your name - you did just that. If it ain't about the money, don't take it.
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Posted: 2/2/2015 10:23:03 AM EDT
[#50]
You know how everyone brags about getting out of jury duty?
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