If Jessie Ventura was wrong, why do you think he won the lawsuit? - Page 7

General » General Discussion

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - If Jessie Ventura was wrong, why do you think he won the lawsuit? (Page 7 of 10)

Posted: 1/30/2015 7:01:51 AM EDT

[#1]

Quote History

Quoted:

You are in the Navy...........what is the general consensus regarding Ventura?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

.............

You mean the guys who were actually there consider him a SEAL, and the guys who came along 30+ years later don't?

If you're not in the community, I don't think you've got much of a leg to stand on arguing about who has what creds in the community. I'm not going to argue with Shipley, he's BTDT and if he says he's a SEAL, he's a SEAL. Comparing SEALs to the aviation community is rather silly.

You are in the Navy...........what is the general consensus regarding Ventura?

I wouldn't want to get sued...

In general, no one outside the NSW community gives a flying fuck about Ventura or this case. Most of them would be astonished to hear he was ever in the military, if they even recognized the name.

Posted: 1/30/2015 7:02:49 AM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:

.............

I wouldn't want to get sued...

In general, no one outside the NSW community gives a flying fuck about Ventura or this case. Most of them would be astonished to hear he was ever in the military, if they even recognized the name.

View Quote

Well, I gotta admit he is rather old now.

Posted: 1/30/2015 7:14:24 AM EDT

[#3]

Here's the facts;

1) Chris Kyle is a known bullshitter. Even if his story about Ventura is true - which is highly doubtful given the circumstances, the lack of witnesses willing to testify about it, etc - there's enough other bullshit tales he told to discredit himself. How many of his Sniper kills were bullshit? Was he sitting up there making up numbers at any point with a lazy spotter? We could go on and on but since Chris Kyle chose to lie about things, it's almost impossible to know what parts of Chris Kyle's story are true and what parts of Chris Kyle's story are bullshit.

2) Jessie Ventura is a loon.

3) Suiing Chris Kyle's estate is simply not equal to suing Chris Kyle's widow under American law.

The only real thing that annoys me is all the whining for Chris Kyle's widow. She married a guy on a Navy salary and is now a multi-millionaire due to Kyle's work, Kyle's story, and basically none of her own accomplishments. Excuse me for not shedding a tear about her having to pay out a judgement because of Kyle fabrication of at least part of his story and damaging the reputation of another individual. ...and this thread alone proves Ventura's reputation was damaged.

Posted: 1/30/2015 7:31:14 AM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:

Your argument, minus the ad hominem, has been recorded before the public. I will await the reply of the other party to this conversation before responding.

I certainly hope his response is less abbreviated than yours. Otherwise this isn't going to be much fun.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Both of you claim to be of the opinion that Shakespeare did not employ a lawyer joke in Henry V.

Please, make your case. Not using a mere sarcastic quip or outsourcing your thoughts to someone else. Articulate your reasons for believing a lawyer joke was not used in Henry V.

Details and specifics, please. It should be easy for such well educated gentlemen.

Because that entire scene was about Jack Cade trying to push his Anarcho-Communist platform.

Right before the lawyer comment the crowd attacked a man because he could write his name and didn't use a "mark" like honest people.

Your argument, minus the ad hominem, has been recorded before the public. I will await the reply of the other party to this conversation before responding.

I certainly hope his response is less abbreviated than yours. Otherwise this isn't going to be much fun.

You came out hard. badfish and I came harder. Now you want to make it look like an attempt to troll/gotcha.

Yawn.

Posted: 1/30/2015 7:47:06 AM EDT

[#5]

Ask the OJ

Posted: 1/30/2015 9:55:13 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

Both of you claim to be of the opinion that Shakespeare did not employ a lawyer joke in Henry V.

Please, make your case. Not using a mere sarcastic quip or outsourcing your thoughts to someone else. Articulate your reasons for believing a lawyer joke was not used in Henry V.

Details and specifics, please. It should be easy for such well educated gentlemen.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
They do. The fact Shakespeare used them is an indicator.

Oh God they didn't teach you about Shakespeare.

Quoted:

Quoted:
They do. The fact Shakespeare used them is an indicator.

Know how I know you're illiterate?

Both of you claim to be of the opinion that Shakespeare did not employ a lawyer joke in Henry V.

Please, make your case. Not using a mere sarcastic quip or outsourcing your thoughts to someone else. Articulate your reasons for believing a lawyer joke was not used in Henry V.

Details and specifics, please. It should be easy for such well educated gentlemen.

Certainly it's a lawyer joke, but in a totally different context than most people realize.

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:05:54 AM EDT

[#7]

ubungo is a piece of shit, but it takes a GIANT piece of shit to go after a dead mans wife and child for something that the dead man said/did. IMO, that is about as low as you can go.

I really don't know why kyle would make that shit up if it didn't happen, but if that's the case, that is libel and it's something you can sue over. however, in this case, that dumb fucktard should've dropped the case when kyle died. suing his wife and kid just makes you look like an asshole.

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:06:40 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here's the facts;
<snip>

View Quote

Irrelevant in GD. You've been here long enough to know that.

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:13:21 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

You mean the guys who were actually there consider him a SEAL, and the guys who came along 30+ years later don't?

If you're not in the community, I don't think you've got much of a leg to stand on arguing about who has what creds in the community. I'm not going to argue with Shipley, he's BTDT and if he says he's a SEAL, he's a SEAL. Comparing SEALs to the aviation community is rather silly.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
My dislike for Jesse the Shit Stain has nothing to do with Chris Kyle case. It stems from the fact the Jesse claims to be a SEAL when in fact he was UDT; at the time the two units were separated with different local commands and compounds. The only thing they had in common was the BUDS training. Once BUDS was completed UDT went to the fleet and SEALs started a new and expanded training cycle before they went to the fleet. Jesse should be proud of his UDT service instead of trying to claim to be something he is not.

Additionally Jesse expounds fruit cake ideas.

Don Shipley (a known quantity in the SF world and a SEAL who actually had a long and prosperous career) says Jesse absolutely has the right to call himself a SEAL and that he doesn't know any other SEALS who think otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeO1DUtnKsE

Actually, there is currently a big rift in the community with the younger guys absolutely rejecting JV and the older guys not so much. The inclusion of the former UDT's into the moniker SEAL after the MOS were merged is a nod to the historical roots of UDT to the SEAL community and a gesture of camaraderie to who were considered esteemed colleagues by the older crowd who lived through the divergent career paths. This is really an "honorary" title extended as the UDT fellows had a different MOS code and had to complete an additional training and selection process if they wanted to extend to get the trident. That they "consider" JV as a fellow SEAL is nice, but not technically true. It is like pilots considering NFOs as "one of them" because we both went to the same basic aviation training. (Something no pilot would EVER say, LOL)

You mean the guys who were actually there consider him a SEAL, and the guys who came along 30+ years later don't?

If you're not in the community, I don't think you've got much of a leg to stand on arguing about who has what creds in the community. I'm not going to argue with Shipley, he's BTDT and if he says he's a SEAL, he's a SEAL. Comparing SEALs to the aviation community is rather silly.

It's not an invalid comparison. . If John Glen says I can call myself a pilot because we both went through the same basic aviation training, I'm still not a pilot.

Even the very fraternal organization, UDT/SEAL association, makes the distinction in their very name and charter.

Section 104. The PURPOSE of the UDT-SEAL Association is:

a.To fraternally unite all persons who were assigned to Naval Combat Demolition Units (NCDUs); Scouts and Raiders (S&R); Office of Strategic Services-Maritime Unit (OSS-MU); Underwater Demolition Teams (UDTs); who were, are, or will be assigned to SEAL Teams, SEAL Delivery Vehicle (SDV) Teams, Special Boat Teams (SBT) and Naval Special Warfare Combat Support/Combat Service Support Technicians, and those who served the United States Navy; and those who served the Naval Special Warfare Community, collectively referred to as “The Teams.”

If the charter of the national organization makes the distinction, then I would suggest that there is, indeed, a distinction because if the community agreed with Don, it would just be "The SEAL" organization.

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:18:43 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:

SEALs don't have an MOS. Navy personnel don't have an MOS. Navy personnel are awarded NECs. Why would you keep calling it an MOS? Yes, Ventura was a 5321 or 5323, I guess, not a 5326.

The US Navy has made no pronouncements one way or the other.

View Quote

Because "MOS" is understood by the majority of readers.

You are right. JV was not a 5326 and thus was not a SEAL.

John Glen and I started out with the same NEC, but when I went 'FO and and he went pilot, we ended up with different warfare pins and different NEC's. John Glen can think I'm as good as a Naval Pilot all he wants and can say I can call myself one all he wants, but I'm still not one.

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:21:23 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
In.
Troll thread.

View Quote

You think?

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:32:36 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:

You are in the Navy...........what is the general consensus regarding Ventura?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

.............

You mean the guys who were actually there consider him a SEAL, and the guys who came along 30+ years later don't?

If you're not in the community, I don't think you've got much of a leg to stand on arguing about who has what creds in the community. I'm not going to argue with Shipley, he's BTDT and if he says he's a SEAL, he's a SEAL. Comparing SEALs to the aviation community is rather silly.

You are in the Navy...........what is the general consensus regarding Ventura?

When I was hanging out with NSW guys in 2006--"Sharkbase" was right next to Ramadi medical--the guys thought JV was a joke. Certainly he came up on a BS session a time or two.

As for the official Navy position, if it is not on your DD214, you can't call yourself one nor wear the device.

Posted: 1/30/2015 12:10:47 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

It's not an invalid comparison. . If John Glen says I can call myself a pilot because we both went through the same basic aviation training, I'm still not a pilot.

Even the very fraternal organization, UDT/SEAL association, makes the distinction in their very name and charter.

If the charter of the national organization makes the distinction, then I would suggest that there is, indeed, a distinction because if the community agreed with Don, it would just be "The SEAL" organization.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

It's not an invalid comparison. . If John Glen says I can call myself a pilot because we both went through the same basic aviation training, I'm still not a pilot.

Even the very fraternal organization, UDT/SEAL association, makes the distinction in their very name and charter.

Section 104. The PURPOSE of the UDT-SEAL Association is:

a.To fraternally unite all persons who were assigned to Naval Combat Demolition Units (NCDUs); Scouts and Raiders (S&R); Office of Strategic Services-Maritime Unit (OSS-MU); Underwater Demolition Teams (UDTs); who were, are, or will be assigned to SEAL Teams, SEAL Delivery Vehicle (SDV) Teams, Special Boat Teams (SBT) and Naval Special Warfare Combat Support/Combat Service Support Technicians, and those who served the United States Navy; and those who served the Naval Special Warfare Community, collectively referred to as “The Teams.”

If the charter of the national organization makes the distinction, then I would suggest that there is, indeed, a distinction because if the community agreed with Don, it would just be "The SEAL" organization.

They're including everyone...

And the aviation analogies are silly.

Pilots didn't come from the NFO community. The SEAL teams were created from the UDTs.

Posted: 1/30/2015 12:14:59 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

They're including everyone...

And the aviation analogies are silly.

Pilots didn't come from the NFO community. The SEAL teams were created from the UDTs.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

It's not an invalid comparison. . If John Glen says I can call myself a pilot because we both went through the same basic aviation training, I'm still not a pilot.

Even the very fraternal organization, UDT/SEAL association, makes the distinction in their very name and charter.

Section 104. The PURPOSE of the UDT-SEAL Association is:

a.To fraternally unite all persons who were assigned to Naval Combat Demolition Units (NCDUs); Scouts and Raiders (S&R); Office of Strategic Services-Maritime Unit (OSS-MU); Underwater Demolition Teams (UDTs); who were, are, or will be assigned to SEAL Teams, SEAL Delivery Vehicle (SDV) Teams, Special Boat Teams (SBT) and Naval Special Warfare Combat Support/Combat Service Support Technicians, and those who served the United States Navy; and those who served the Naval Special Warfare Community, collectively referred to as “The Teams.”

If the charter of the national organization makes the distinction, then I would suggest that there is, indeed, a distinction because if the community agreed with Don, it would just be "The SEAL" organization.

They're including everyone...

And the aviation analogies are silly.

Pilots didn't come from the NFO community. The SEAL teams were created from the UDTs.

Right, they are including everyone--while still maintaining the distinction.

The aviation analogy isn't silly because it is the exact same principle--"we had the same basic training and an esteemed member of the organization said we could call ourselves that so we will."

If you had a third class running around with second class chevrons on his uniform and said he did so because his chief said he was "just as good as a second class" would you say "okay his chief is the esteemed member of his NEC so whatever", or would you tell him to put them away until he actually passed the second class test and got formally promoted and then go to his chief and say "WTF that's bullshit?"

Posted: 1/30/2015 12:15:47 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

Because "MOS" is understood by the majority of readers.

You are right. JV was not a 5326 and thus was not a SEAL.

John Glen and I started out with the same NEC, but when I went 'FO and and he went pilot, we ended up with different warfare pins and different NEC's. John Glen can think I'm as good as a Naval Pilot all he wants and can say I can call myself one all he wants, but I'm still not one.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

SEALs don't have an MOS. Navy personnel don't have an MOS. Navy personnel are awarded NECs. Why would you keep calling it an MOS? Yes, Ventura was a 5321 or 5323, I guess, not a 5326.

The US Navy has made no pronouncements one way or the other.

Because "MOS" is understood by the majority of readers.

You are right. JV was not a 5326 and thus was not a SEAL.

John Glen and I started out with the same NEC, but when I went 'FO and and he went pilot, we ended up with different warfare pins and different NEC's. John Glen can think I'm as good as a Naval Pilot all he wants and can say I can call myself one all he wants, but I'm still not one.

MOS has no meaning in reference to Navy enlisted personnel. We don't have them, we have ratings and NECs.

Again, aviation analogies are silly. The SEAL community was created from the UDTs. Pilots were not created from the NFO community.

Arguing that the guys who have been in the Navy a few years now and weren't there when it happened are the ones we should pay attention to over the people who were there and who have explained it doesn't matter is silly.

Posted: 1/30/2015 12:17:39 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

MOS has no meaning in reference to Navy enlisted personnel. We don't have them, we have ratings and NECs.

Again, aviation analogies are silly. The SEAL community was created from the UDTs. Pilots were not created from the NFO community.

Arguing that the guys who have been in the Navy a few years now and weren't there when it happened are the ones we should pay attention to over the people who were there and who have explained it doesn't matter is silly.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

SEALs don't have an MOS. Navy personnel don't have an MOS. Navy personnel are awarded NECs. Why would you keep calling it an MOS? Yes, Ventura was a 5321 or 5323, I guess, not a 5326.

The US Navy has made no pronouncements one way or the other.

Because "MOS" is understood by the majority of readers.

You are right. JV was not a 5326 and thus was not a SEAL.

John Glen and I started out with the same NEC, but when I went 'FO and and he went pilot, we ended up with different warfare pins and different NEC's. John Glen can think I'm as good as a Naval Pilot all he wants and can say I can call myself one all he wants, but I'm still not one.

MOS has no meaning in reference to Navy enlisted personnel. We don't have them, we have ratings and NECs.

Again, aviation analogies are silly. The SEAL community was created from the UDTs. Pilots were not created from the NFO community.

Arguing that the guys who have been in the Navy a few years now and weren't there when it happened are the ones we should pay attention to over the people who were there and who have explained it doesn't matter is silly.

It's not silly. They are part of the "community." I understand the desire for inclusiveness and camaraderie, but technically it is incorrect to call someone by a NEC they did not earn. I'd assume that a chief who is a "by the rules" sort of guy would get that.

Posted: 1/30/2015 12:34:23 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

Right, they are including everyone--while still maintaining the distinction.

The aviation analogy isn't silly because it is the exact same principle--"we had the same basic training and an esteemed member of the organization said we could call ourselves that so we will."

If you had a third class running around with second class chevrons on his uniform and said he did so because his chief said he was "just as good as a second class" would you say "okay" his chief is the esteemed member of his NEC so whatever, or would you tell him to put them away until he actually passed the second class test and got formally promoted?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

It's not an invalid comparison. . If John Glen says I can call myself a pilot because we both went through the same basic aviation training, I'm still not a pilot.

Even the very fraternal organization, UDT/SEAL association, makes the distinction in their very name and charter.

Section 104. The PURPOSE of the UDT-SEAL Association is:

a.To fraternally unite all persons who were assigned to Naval Combat Demolition Units (NCDUs); Scouts and Raiders (S&R); Office of Strategic Services-Maritime Unit (OSS-MU); Underwater Demolition Teams (UDTs); who were, are, or will be assigned to SEAL Teams, SEAL Delivery Vehicle (SDV) Teams, Special Boat Teams (SBT) and Naval Special Warfare Combat Support/Combat Service Support Technicians, and those who served the United States Navy; and those who served the Naval Special Warfare Community, collectively referred to as “The Teams.”

If the charter of the national organization makes the distinction, then I would suggest that there is, indeed, a distinction because if the community agreed with Don, it would just be "The SEAL" organization.

They're including everyone...

And the aviation analogies are silly.

Pilots didn't come from the NFO community. The SEAL teams were created from the UDTs.

Right, they are including everyone--while still maintaining the distinction.

The aviation analogy isn't silly because it is the exact same principle--"we had the same basic training and an esteemed member of the organization said we could call ourselves that so we will."

If you had a third class running around with second class chevrons on his uniform and said he did so because his chief said he was "just as good as a second class" would you say "okay" his chief is the esteemed member of his NEC so whatever, or would you tell him to put them away until he actually passed the second class test and got formally promoted?

Again, UDT wasn't "basic training" for SEALs until after they created the SEAL teams. They took a bunch of UDT guys and made SEAL teams out of them. Which is why guys like Don Shipley say it makes no difference whatsoever, and why the Navy hasn't argued the point for the 40 or so years he's been calling himself a SEAL and wearing his UDT pin to all the reunions.

Hell, in 1983, all the UDTs became SEAL teams with a stroke of a pen... Again, most likely why these guys who would know say it doesn't matter.

Posted: 1/30/2015 12:35:32 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

It's not silly. They are part of the "community." I understand the desire for inclusiveness and camaraderie, but technically it is incorrect to call someone by a NEC they did not earn. I'd assume that a chief who is a "by the rules" sort of guy would get that.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

SEALs don't have an MOS. Navy personnel don't have an MOS. Navy personnel are awarded NECs. Why would you keep calling it an MOS? Yes, Ventura was a 5321 or 5323, I guess, not a 5326.

The US Navy has made no pronouncements one way or the other.

Because "MOS" is understood by the majority of readers.

You are right. JV was not a 5326 and thus was not a SEAL.

John Glen and I started out with the same NEC, but when I went 'FO and and he went pilot, we ended up with different warfare pins and different NEC's. John Glen can think I'm as good as a Naval Pilot all he wants and can say I can call myself one all he wants, but I'm still not one.

MOS has no meaning in reference to Navy enlisted personnel. We don't have them, we have ratings and NECs.

Again, aviation analogies are silly. The SEAL community was created from the UDTs. Pilots were not created from the NFO community.

Arguing that the guys who have been in the Navy a few years now and weren't there when it happened are the ones we should pay attention to over the people who were there and who have explained it doesn't matter is silly.

It's not silly. They are part of the "community." I understand the desire for inclusiveness and camaraderie, but technically it is incorrect to call someone by a NEC they did not earn. I'd assume that a chief who is a "by the rules" sort of guy would get that.

To be more accurate, the "community" was created from their ranks.

Posted: 1/30/2015 12:40:34 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

You came out hard. badfish and I came harder. Now you want to make it look like an attempt to troll/gotcha.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Both of you claim to be of the opinion that Shakespeare did not employ a lawyer joke in Henry V.

Please, make your case. Not using a mere sarcastic quip or outsourcing your thoughts to someone else. Articulate your reasons for believing a lawyer joke was not used in Henry V.

Details and specifics, please. It should be easy for such well educated gentlemen.

Because that entire scene was about Jack Cade trying to push his Anarcho-Communist platform.

Right before the lawyer comment the crowd attacked a man because he could write his name and didn't use a "mark" like honest people.

Your argument, minus the ad hominem, has been recorded before the public. I will await the reply of the other party to this conversation before responding.

I certainly hope his response is less abbreviated than yours. Otherwise this isn't going to be much fun.

You came out hard. badfish and I came harder. Now you want to make it look like an attempt to troll/gotcha.

You're jumping to a pretty abstract conclusion there.

No, I just want both of you firmly on record with your claims related to Henry V.

Posted: 1/30/2015 12:44:34 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

None of it happened.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
He won because his lawyers convinced a jury that he should win, which is the ONLY reason anyone ever wins anything in a court of law.

Now, do you think that some harsh words and a punch in the nose is worth $1.8 million?

None of it happened.

Were you there?

Posted: 1/30/2015 12:47:56 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here's the facts;

1) Chris Kyle is a known bullshitter. Even if his story about Ventura is true - which is highly doubtful given the circumstances, the lack of witnesses willing to testify about it, etc - there's enough other bullshit tales he told to discredit himself. How many of his Sniper kills were bullshit? Was he sitting up there making up numbers at any point with a lazy spotter? We could go on and on but since Chris Kyle chose to lie about things, it's almost impossible to know what parts of Chris Kyle's story are true and what parts of Chris Kyle's story are bullshit.

2) Jessie Ventura is a loon.

3) Suiing Chris Kyle's estate is simply not equal to suing Chris Kyle's widow under American law.

The only real thing that annoys me is all the whining for Chris Kyle's widow. She married a guy on a Navy salary and is now a multi-millionaire due to Kyle's work, Kyle's story, and basically none of her own accomplishments. Excuse me for not shedding a tear about her having to pay out a judgement because of Kyle fabrication of at least part of his story and damaging the reputation of another individual. ...and this thread alone proves Ventura's reputation was damaged.

View Quote

+87

Posted: 1/30/2015 12:50:12 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

To be more accurate, the "community" was created from their ranks.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

SEALs don't have an MOS. Navy personnel don't have an MOS. Navy personnel are awarded NECs. Why would you keep calling it an MOS? Yes, Ventura was a 5321 or 5323, I guess, not a 5326.

The US Navy has made no pronouncements one way or the other.

Because "MOS" is understood by the majority of readers.

You are right. JV was not a 5326 and thus was not a SEAL.

John Glen and I started out with the same NEC, but when I went 'FO and and he went pilot, we ended up with different warfare pins and different NEC's. John Glen can think I'm as good as a Naval Pilot all he wants and can say I can call myself one all he wants, but I'm still not one.

MOS has no meaning in reference to Navy enlisted personnel. We don't have them, we have ratings and NECs.

Again, aviation analogies are silly. The SEAL community was created from the UDTs. Pilots were not created from the NFO community.

Arguing that the guys who have been in the Navy a few years now and weren't there when it happened are the ones we should pay attention to over the people who were there and who have explained it doesn't matter is silly.

It's not silly. They are part of the "community." I understand the desire for inclusiveness and camaraderie, but technically it is incorrect to call someone by a NEC they did not earn. I'd assume that a chief who is a "by the rules" sort of guy would get that.

To be more accurate, the "community" was created from their ranks.

A lot of communities were created from previous communities and previous organizations. Does that make them the same? The facts of the matter is that JV is not a legacy like WWII and Korean swimmers, he was in during a certain time period when they were different units with different career paths and specific path to become a SEAL--something he did not do.

A simple answer for yourself as a chief would, if he were to put on his old uniform but instead of the UDT trident, he put on a SEAL trident, would he be in proper uniform or not?

Posted: 1/30/2015 1:20:16 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

+87

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here's the facts;

1) Chris Kyle is a known bullshitter. Even if his story about Ventura is true - which is highly doubtful given the circumstances, the lack of witnesses willing to testify about it, etc - there's enough other bullshit tales he told to discredit himself. How many of his Sniper kills were bullshit? Was he sitting up there making up numbers at any point with a lazy spotter? We could go on and on but since Chris Kyle chose to lie about things, it's almost impossible to know what parts of Chris Kyle's story are true and what parts of Chris Kyle's story are bullshit.

2) Jessie Ventura is a loon.

3) Suiing Chris Kyle's estate is simply not equal to suing Chris Kyle's widow under American law.

The only real thing that annoys me is all the whining for Chris Kyle's widow. She married a guy on a Navy salary and is now a multi-millionaire due to Kyle's work, Kyle's story, and basically none of her own accomplishments. Excuse me for not shedding a tear about her having to pay out a judgement because of Kyle fabrication of at least part of his story and damaging the reputation of another individual. ...and this thread alone proves Ventura's reputation was damaged.

+87

Part I put in blue.

Plus another 87.

Posted: 1/30/2015 1:36:24 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

I've yet to find evidence that indicates Kyle directly said the last two--everything I've read is along the lines of "i talked to this guy who said Kyle said."

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Chris Kyle fabricated several stories. One of them involved Jesse the shitstain Ventura. That's why he won.

Did Chris ever specifically say it was Ventura?

Yes he did on the #1 cable news show in America. I watched it when it aired.

http://youtu.be/VU5MLcWXzfo

Video admitting it at link. Also said he sniped looters in New Orleans post Katrina and put a cap in two at a gas station. Both of them complete fabrications.

Kyle is still a hero to me, but he should have been ashamed to lie about these things. FWIW fuck ventura

Was he ever able to explain why he lied?

It just doesn't make sense to me. He was a hero in many ways, with I'm sure hundreds and hundreds of real stories to tell. Why make shit up?

I've yet to find evidence that indicates Kyle directly said the last two--everything I've read is along the lines of "i talked to this guy who said Kyle said."

Thats bullshit, and you know it. On two different Kyle threads I have posted actual quotes of Chris Kyle saying it happened. Not heard from a buddy, not from a buddy of a buddy, but from Kyle himself. You are so bought in on Kyle that you dont want to see it or read it. Stop bullshitting others that may believe what you say.

Posted: 1/30/2015 3:44:23 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

You think?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
In.
Troll thread.

You think?

No.

No, it isn't.

Posted: 1/30/2015 3:48:14 PM EDT

[#26]

Douchenozzle Ventura should've taken his chops like a man and not sue the widow of Chris Kyle. FUCK HIM.

Posted: 1/30/2015 5:01:45 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Douchenozzle Ventura should've taken his chops like a man and not sue the widow of Chris Kyle. FUCK HIM.

View Quote

He never got hit.

Posted: 1/30/2015 5:03:03 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Your argument, minus the ad hominem, has been recorded before the public. I will await the reply of the other party to this conversation before responding.

I certainly hope his response is less abbreviated than yours. Otherwise this isn't going to be much fun.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Both of you claim to be of the opinion that Shakespeare did not employ a lawyer joke in Henry V.

Please, make your case. Not using a mere sarcastic quip or outsourcing your thoughts to someone else. Articulate your reasons for believing a lawyer joke was not used in Henry V.

Details and specifics, please. It should be easy for such well educated gentlemen.

Because that entire scene was about Jack Cade trying to push his Anarcho-Communist platform.

Right before the lawyer comment the crowd attacked a man because he could write his name and didn't use a "mark" like honest people.

Your argument, minus the ad hominem, has been recorded before the public. I will await the reply of the other party to this conversation before responding.

I certainly hope his response is less abbreviated than yours. Otherwise this isn't going to be much fun.

I'm good.

Posted: 1/30/2015 9:55:53 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

A lot of communities were created from previous communities and previous organizations. Does that make them the same? The facts of the matter is that JV is not a legacy like WWII and Korean swimmers, he was in during a certain time period when they were different units with different career paths and specific path to become a SEAL--something he did not do.

A simple answer for yourself as a chief would, if he were to put on his old uniform but instead of the UDT trident, he put on a SEAL trident, would he be in proper uniform or not?

View Quote

You'd have to have a complete understanding of what was involved in awarding either of them. I wasn't there, and neither were you. I'm not a SEAL, and neither are you... Plenty of the people who were there say it doesn't matter, I'm not willing to argue with them, because they were there... At the time he was in the Navy, the difference between being UDT and being a SEAL was quite literally what UIC you were assigned to, not what training or pipeline you went through.

If you really want your aviation analogies, here's one that makes sense... What you're arguing over is functionally the same as the Army Air Corps / USAF difference. At one time, there was a US Army Air Corps.... and then the people in the US Army Air Corps became USAF Officers. What uniform would my grandfather have worn, fifty years later, after the US Army Air Corps no longer existed? Probably a USAF equivalent, but did anybody really draft an instruction to cover it? The 5321 NEC hasn't been awarded since at least 1983 (probably much earlier, really, but I can't find any specific record) when everyone attached to a UDT team must have been awarded 5326, as the UDTs they were all attached to became SEAL and SDVT teams with a stroke of a pen as far as I can tell. So if he were claiming to be something he were not, I'd expect the SEAL community to be up in arms about it -- they're not shy about outing stolen valor posers, never have been. The opposite seems to be the case here, so I'm don't find it necessary to argue with them.

Posted: 1/30/2015 9:56:08 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

Thats bullshit, and you know it. On two different Kyle threads I have posted actual quotes of Chris Kyle saying it happened. Not heard from a buddy, not from a buddy of a buddy, but from Kyle himself. You are so bought in on Kyle that you dont want to see it or read it. Stop bullshitting others that may believe what you say.

View Quote

Post the references here so that we can discuss them in this thread. Are you so vehement that you take an antagonistic approach with a total stranger? Perhaps you are the one with the issue.

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:01:22 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

+87

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here's the facts;

1) Chris Kyle is a known bullshitter. Even if his story about Ventura is true - which is highly doubtful given the circumstances, the lack of witnesses willing to testify about it, etc - there's enough other bullshit tales he told to discredit himself. How many of his Sniper kills were bullshit? Was he sitting up there making up numbers at any point with a lazy spotter? We could go on and on but since Chris Kyle chose to lie about things, it's almost impossible to know what parts of Chris Kyle's story are true and what parts of Chris Kyle's story are bullshit.

2) Jessie Ventura is a loon.

3) Suiing Chris Kyle's estate is simply not equal to suing Chris Kyle's widow under American law.

The only real thing that annoys me is all the whining for Chris Kyle's widow. She married a guy on a Navy salary and is now a multi-millionaire due to Kyle's work, Kyle's story, and basically none of her own accomplishments. Excuse me for not shedding a tear about her having to pay out a judgement because of Kyle fabrication of at least part of his story and damaging the reputation of another individual. ...and this thread alone proves Ventura's reputation was damaged.

+87

Multiplied by Infinity.

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:01:24 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

You'd have to have a complete understanding of what was involved in awarding either of them. I wasn't there, and neither were you. I'm not a SEAL, and neither are you... Plenty of the people who were there say it doesn't matter, I'm not willing to argue with them, because they were there... At the time he was in the Navy, the difference between being UDT and being a SEAL was quite literally what UIC you were assigned to, not what training or pipeline you went through.

If you really want your aviation analogies, here's one that makes sense... What you're arguing over is functionally the same as the Army Air Corps / USAF difference. At one time, there was a US Army Air Corps.... and then the people in the US Army Air Corps became USAF Officers. What uniform would my grandfather have worn, fifty years later, after the US Army Air Corps no longer existed? Probably a USAF equivalent, but did anybody really draft an instruction to cover it? The 5321 NEC hasn't been awarded since at least 1983 (probably much earlier, really, but I can't find any specific record) when everyone attached to a UDT team must have been awarded 5326, as the UDTs they were all attached to became SEAL and SDVT teams with a stroke of a pen as far as I can tell. So if he were claiming to be something he were not, I'd expect the SEAL community to be up in arms about it -- they're not shy about outing stolen valor posers, never have been. The opposite seems to be the case here, so I'm don't find it necessary to argue with them.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

A lot of communities were created from previous communities and previous organizations. Does that make them the same? The facts of the matter is that JV is not a legacy like WWII and Korean swimmers, he was in during a certain time period when they were different units with different career paths and specific path to become a SEAL--something he did not do.

A simple answer for yourself as a chief would, if he were to put on his old uniform but instead of the UDT trident, he put on a SEAL trident, would he be in proper uniform or not?

You'd have to have a complete understanding of what was involved in awarding either of them. I wasn't there, and neither were you. I'm not a SEAL, and neither are you... Plenty of the people who were there say it doesn't matter, I'm not willing to argue with them, because they were there... At the time he was in the Navy, the difference between being UDT and being a SEAL was quite literally what UIC you were assigned to, not what training or pipeline you went through.

If you really want your aviation analogies, here's one that makes sense... What you're arguing over is functionally the same as the Army Air Corps / USAF difference. At one time, there was a US Army Air Corps.... and then the people in the US Army Air Corps became USAF Officers. What uniform would my grandfather have worn, fifty years later, after the US Army Air Corps no longer existed? Probably a USAF equivalent, but did anybody really draft an instruction to cover it? The 5321 NEC hasn't been awarded since at least 1983 (probably much earlier, really, but I can't find any specific record) when everyone attached to a UDT team must have been awarded 5326, as the UDTs they were all attached to became SEAL and SDVT teams with a stroke of a pen as far as I can tell. So if he were claiming to be something he were not, I'd expect the SEAL community to be up in arms about it -- they're not shy about outing stolen valor posers, never have been. The opposite seems to be the case here, so I'm don't find it necessary to argue with them.

You didn't answer my question. Should a person who never completed the stated qualifications of a warfare badge claim said warfare badge? There were published and available when JV was in. He was not a legacy of predecessors like the army air corps/air force example. When he was enlisted there were certain criteria to be a certain group and he could have completed that criteria but he did not. Now, in retrospect, he is to claim a warfare specialty he never qualified for in the first place?

One dose not have to have "been there" to see what the stated and published qualification criteria and schools were. You know this,

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:34:41 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think a lot of hate has to do with the fact that he's a faggot in every other aspect of his life too.

View Quote

a faggot? I know you're an armchair general and a bad ass, but calling someone that over the internet, sure makes you look like a pussy, because I would bet both my nuts, and 100,000 USD that you wouldn't say that to his face in a dark alley.

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:37:00 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:

a faggot? I know you're an armchair general and a bad ass, but calling someone that over the internet, sure makes you look like a pussy, because I would bet both my nuts, and 100,000 USD that you wouldn't say that to his face in a dark alley.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think a lot of hate has to do with the fact that he's a faggot in every other aspect of his life too.

a faggot? I know you're an armchair general and a bad ass, but calling someone that over the internet, sure makes you look like a pussy, because I would bet both my nuts, and 100,000 USD that you wouldn't say that to his face in a dark alley.

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:55:08 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
Chris Kyle fabricated several stories. One of them involved Jesse the shitstain Ventura. That's why he won.

View Quote

This.

Posted: 1/30/2015 10:57:54 PM EDT

[#36]

He was not wrong. I have no idea why CK decided to make that shit up. He shouldn't have.

I think Ventura should donate the money to veteran's charities to show that it wasn't about money.

That would help redeem him some what.

Posted: 1/30/2015 11:10:27 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

a faggot? I know you're an armchair general and a bad ass, but calling someone that over the internet, sure makes you look like a pussy, because I would bet both my nuts, and 100,000 USD that you wouldn't say that to his face in a dark alley.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think a lot of hate has to do with the fact that he's a faggot in every other aspect of his life too.

a faggot? I know you're an armchair general and a bad ass, but calling someone that over the internet, sure makes you look like a pussy, because I would bet both my nuts, and 100,000 USD that you wouldn't say that to his face in a dark alley.

Oh yeah you callin me a pussy is different tho right....... The guys IS a faggot and I would have no problem telling him or you.

Posted: 1/30/2015 11:19:28 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

Oh yeah you callin me a pussy is different tho right....... The guys IS a faggot and I would have no problem telling him or you.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think a lot of hate has to do with the fact that he's a faggot in every other aspect of his life too.

a faggot? I know you're an armchair general and a bad ass, but calling someone that over the internet, sure makes you look like a pussy, because I would bet both my nuts, and 100,000 USD that you wouldn't say that to his face in a dark alley.

Oh yeah you callin me a pussy is different tho right....... The guys IS a faggot and I would have no problem telling him or you.

He'd just run away cuz he aint got time to bleed.

Posted: 1/30/2015 11:45:31 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

Post the references here so that we can discuss them in this thread. Are you so vehement that you take an antagonistic approach with a total stranger? Perhaps you are the one with the issue.

View Quote

Jeezus, did you actually READ the thread you are arguing in?

It is on page one....

Posted: 1/31/2015 2:18:34 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

Post the references here so that we can discuss them in this thread. Are you so vehement that you take an antagonistic approach with a total stranger? Perhaps you are the one with the issue.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Thats bullshit, and you know it. On two different Kyle threads I have posted actual quotes of Chris Kyle saying it happened. Not heard from a buddy, not from a buddy of a buddy, but from Kyle himself. You are so bought in on Kyle that you dont want to see it or read it. Stop bullshitting others that may believe what you say.

Post the references here so that we can discuss them in this thread. Are you so vehement that you take an antagonistic approach with a total stranger? Perhaps you are the one with the issue.

Kyle: "You mean the time I shot two guys trying to steal my truck?"

Vehement? Not really. I just like watching you claim he never actually said he did, and the fact you have nothing to answer when the links are provided.

ETA: Previous Kyle thread where you white knighted him, and I linked to him saying he "...shot two guys trying to steal my truck."

Posted: 1/31/2015 2:50:58 AM EDT

[#41]

Ventura is just pissed off because he never became a SEAL himself.

Posted: 1/31/2015 3:22:13 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm good.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Both of you claim to be of the opinion that Shakespeare did not employ a lawyer joke in Henry V.

Please, make your case. Not using a mere sarcastic quip or outsourcing your thoughts to someone else. Articulate your reasons for believing a lawyer joke was not used in Henry V.

Details and specifics, please. It should be easy for such well educated gentlemen.

Because that entire scene was about Jack Cade trying to push his Anarcho-Communist platform.

Right before the lawyer comment the crowd attacked a man because he could write his name and didn't use a "mark" like honest people.

Your argument, minus the ad hominem, has been recorded before the public. I will await the reply of the other party to this conversation before responding.

I certainly hope his response is less abbreviated than yours. Otherwise this isn't going to be much fun.

I'm good.

So you do not wish to add any further depth the interpretation of Henry V presented by mean_sartin? You are completely satisfied with the perspective he presents and any limitations or flaws it may contain?

I would strongly advise, were I offering you favors, that you do not solely depend on his extremely abbreviated presentation of your position.

Posted: 1/31/2015 3:31:51 AM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
Because Chris Kyle is dead and could not defend himself?

View Quote

Yup.
That and the media is on Ventura's side ( just look at how the left is responding to "American sniper".
The left hates the military. The old adage " any enemy of my enemy is my friend".
Jesse's star will rise until he no longer serves a purpose ( useful idiot )

Posted: 1/31/2015 3:49:23 AM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

So you do not wish to add any further depth the interpretation of Henry V presented by mean_sartin? You are completely satisfied with the perspective he presents and any limitations or flaws it may contain?

I would strongly advise, were I offering you favors, that you do not solely depend on his extremely abbreviated presentation of your position.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Both of you claim to be of the opinion that Shakespeare did not employ a lawyer joke in Henry V.

Please, make your case. Not using a mere sarcastic quip or outsourcing your thoughts to someone else. Articulate your reasons for believing a lawyer joke was not used in Henry V.

Details and specifics, please. It should be easy for such well educated gentlemen.

Because that entire scene was about Jack Cade trying to push his Anarcho-Communist platform.

Right before the lawyer comment the crowd attacked a man because he could write his name and didn't use a "mark" like honest people.

Your argument, minus the ad hominem, has been recorded before the public. I will await the reply of the other party to this conversation before responding.

I certainly hope his response is less abbreviated than yours. Otherwise this isn't going to be much fun.

I'm good.

So you do not wish to add any further depth the interpretation of Henry V presented by mean_sartin? You are completely satisfied with the perspective he presents and any limitations or flaws it may contain?

I would strongly advise, were I offering you favors, that you do not solely depend on his extremely abbreviated presentation of your position.

Just get on with it.

Posted: 1/31/2015 3:51:20 AM EDT

[#45]

Regardless of what side people are on with the lawsuit, Ventura was a UDT/SEAL per Shipley and that's that.

Ventura might be "out there" on some of his ideas, but I have heard stranger things posted on this site.

I would vote for the guy if he were running for office. People might not like some of his views, but from what I saw of his story while governor of MN, he told it how it was. That's far better than most people who run for office.

Posted: 1/31/2015 4:05:47 AM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
Regardless of what side people are on with the lawsuit, Ventura was a UDT/SEAL per Shipley and that's that.

Ventura might be "out there" on some of his ideas, but I have heard stranger things posted on this site.

I would vote for the guy if he were running for office. People might not like some of his views, but from what I saw of his story while governor of MN, he told it how it was. That's far better than most people who run for office.

View Quote

How did you manage to lop 11 years off your join date?

Posted: 1/31/2015 4:48:43 AM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:

You didn't answer my question. Should a person who never completed the stated qualifications of a warfare badge claim said warfare badge? There were published and available when JV was in. He was not a legacy of predecessors like the army air corps/air force example. When he was enlisted there were certain criteria to be a certain group and he could have completed that criteria but he did not. Now, in retrospect, he is to claim a warfare specialty he never qualified for in the first place?

One dose not have to have "been there" to see what the stated and published qualification criteria and schools were. You know this,

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

A lot of communities were created from previous communities and previous organizations. Does that make them the same? The facts of the matter is that JV is not a legacy like WWII and Korean swimmers, he was in during a certain time period when they were different units with different career paths and specific path to become a SEAL--something he did not do.

A simple answer for yourself as a chief would, if he were to put on his old uniform but instead of the UDT trident, he put on a SEAL trident, would he be in proper uniform or not?

You'd have to have a complete understanding of what was involved in awarding either of them. I wasn't there, and neither were you. I'm not a SEAL, and neither are you... Plenty of the people who were there say it doesn't matter, I'm not willing to argue with them, because they were there... At the time he was in the Navy, the difference between being UDT and being a SEAL was quite literally what UIC you were assigned to, not what training or pipeline you went through.

If you really want your aviation analogies, here's one that makes sense... What you're arguing over is functionally the same as the Army Air Corps / USAF difference. At one time, there was a US Army Air Corps.... and then the people in the US Army Air Corps became USAF Officers. What uniform would my grandfather have worn, fifty years later, after the US Army Air Corps no longer existed? Probably a USAF equivalent, but did anybody really draft an instruction to cover it? The 5321 NEC hasn't been awarded since at least 1983 (probably much earlier, really, but I can't find any specific record) when everyone attached to a UDT team must have been awarded 5326, as the UDTs they were all attached to became SEAL and SDVT teams with a stroke of a pen as far as I can tell. So if he were claiming to be something he were not, I'd expect the SEAL community to be up in arms about it -- they're not shy about outing stolen valor posers, never have been. The opposite seems to be the case here, so I'm don't find it necessary to argue with them.

You didn't answer my question. Should a person who never completed the stated qualifications of a warfare badge claim said warfare badge? There were published and available when JV was in. He was not a legacy of predecessors like the army air corps/air force example. When he was enlisted there were certain criteria to be a certain group and he could have completed that criteria but he did not. Now, in retrospect, he is to claim a warfare specialty he never qualified for in the first place?

One dose not have to have "been there" to see what the stated and published qualification criteria and schools were. You know this,

Even Chris Kyle agreed that Ventura was a SEAL.

Your infatuation with this is bordering on obsessive.

Posted: 1/31/2015 4:52:00 AM EDT

[#48]

For everyone lamenting Kyle's now destitute, poverty stricken widow from whose children's mouths Ventura just snatched the last crumbs of stale bread, has the value of the Kyle estate been ascertained?

Posted: 1/31/2015 5:15:41 AM EDT

[#49]

Personally- they are cut from the same cloth.

This guy is a real hero... Captain William D. Swensonhttp://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/3485/swenson-william-d.php

Posted: 1/31/2015 5:53:24 AM EDT

[#50]

I think Kyle made up a whole bunch of shit that wasn't true. Still doesn't take away from Ventura from being a piece of shit.

He was never a Navy SEAL, nor did he see any combat in Vietnmam. He's a bigger liar than Chris Kyle ever was.

You don't see Old timer OSS guys calling themselves Green Berets.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - If Jessie Ventura was wrong, why do you think he won the lawsuit? (Page 7 of 10)

General » General Discussion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us