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SorryOciffer
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:15:10 PM
On 60 minutes tonight a VP of glock said he supports the ballistic fingerprinting and things we should try it on a national level! Now if all you S&W haters are consistant you should hate glock as they have head people supporting something even worse.
82ndAbn
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:19:04 PM
They need a lesson from R. Barrett and Bushmaster in 2nd Amendment 101. Bastards!
fredshort
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:23:05 PM
I saw that myself a few minutes ago. I feel the same way. Glock is now collecting shell casings for fingerprinting. I'm pretty sure I have bought my last new handgun. Fred
SorryOciffer
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:28:18 PM
Just swap out the parts when you buy it and keep them as emergency spares. That is what I do. SorryOciffer
Maynard
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:30:30 PM
I didn't see the show but if this is indeed true then I have bought my last Glock. I have had a G34 on my wish list but can't see it with policies like this. Damn shame.
lokt
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:31:57 PM
links? transcripts?
M4Real
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:34:05 PM
My new G30 came with the casing(two of them) enclosed with the gun.
Delta_3_63
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:34:52 PM
Son-of-a-politically-correct-fudge-packing-government-cock-sucking-rump-ranger-bitch! Oh well. Maybe now I can justify the cost of a Sig or H-K.
"Oh, and Lord, one more thing, about our enemies, ignore their heathen prayers and help us blow those bastards straight to Hell. Amen"

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AZ-K9
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:35:05 PM
Holy shit.[shock] Fire mission. GLOCK Inc. USA, Canada 6000 Highlands Parkway Smyrna, GA 30082 USA Tel.: +1 770 - 432 1202 Fax.: +1 770 - 433 8719
The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
SorryOciffer
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:39:30 PM
The kicker too is that the VP was a former prosecutor! SorryOciffer
Arock
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:43:07 PM
The Glock VP made a serious marketing mistake. It will come back to bite him. Glock's position is now more onerous than was Smith & Wesson's deal with the Clinton administration. It will cost them customers and business. The loyal following Glock has enjoyed for years now has a dilemma of confidence on their hands.
We are living in a golden age. The past was pretty awful; the future will be far worse. Enjoy!
Badseed
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:43:29 PM
[Last Edit: 2/9/2003 9:03:39 PM by Badseed]
I'll be buying a new weapon in the next 30days... a Glock was on my contenders list. NOT any more. Looks like it'll be another Walther, FN, or HK. Son of a bitch, I hope this hurts 'em bad. Although I bet half their sales are to LE and they just might find away to increase that with this anti 2nd bullshit! I'll be calling the HQ in Austria in a few hours when they wake up. (Tel.: +43 (0) 2247 - 90300 - 0 -- If anyone cares)
DigDug
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:44:57 PM
I'll make a bet that the statement is retracted. There may be a VP looking for a new job next week also. This won't go over well for them at all. For Glock, the SHTF senerio is on the horizon.
"Life is a comedy for those who think... and a tragedy for those who feel" Horace Walpole

"I put on my robe and wizard hat" BloodNinja
M4Real
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:46:24 PM
[Last Edit: 2/9/2003 8:47:41 PM by M4Real]
Originally Posted By kay9: Holy shit.[shock] Fire mission. GLOCK Inc. USA, Canada 6000 Highlands Parkway Smyrna, GA 30082 USA Tel.: +1 770 - 432 1202 Fax.: +1 770 - 433 8719
Here is their toll free number: (866) 225-4098 Call them and raise hell!!!!!! I just purchased my first Glock. This really pisses me off. Now it's really a love/hate relationship.
SouthernShark
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:48:51 PM
I saw it and was DISGUSTED by Glock. I feel like burning my Glock 21. I won't. I will SALE it and buy a 1911. I won't buy another Glock anytime soon (probably never since I don't like them all that much anyway). For those of you who think its no big deal consider the following. 1) It is a big deal when any gun manfacturer supports gun legislation. That weakens our position across the board. 2) It is EXPENSIVE to change out the parts on a Glock or any other automatic. Why should I have to pay $300 bucks on top of the money I just paid to get my gun out of the government data base? That amounts to a tax on automatics. 3) It is VERY HARD and EXPENSIVE to change out all the parts on a revolver. You can't just drop in a new barrel. You can replace the barrel, IF you have a replacement (which isn't always easy to find), but generally it is expensive and requires a gun smith. 4) Registratio= First Step towards CONFISCATION. That's a simple fact. I know that a lot of you don't spend a lot of time around liberal anti-gunners. I do (unfortunately). Those people are VERY serious about banning guns FOREVER. They are NOT trying to enact reasonable regulations. They are trying to take your guns. Anytime we compromise with them, we lose ground and they gain it. Its that simple. 5) Some people say that they will never use their guns to commit a crime so it doesn't matter. This is false. I have heard anti-gunners state things like "one advantage of banning all guns is that you will know that anyone who has one is a criminal." Think about that. Anyone who has a gun is a criminal. The crime that you commit might just be keeping your gun. That is what they will track you down for. So be sure to pick up those spare shells at the range. Remember Folks: [b]YOU ARE EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US. PICK A TEAM."[/b] Glock appears to have picked their team, and it ain't the same one I'm on. -Southern
RenegadeX
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:49:47 PM
[Last Edit: 2/9/2003 8:58:03 PM by RenegadeX]
Look at it from Glock's point of view. Glock is already doing ballistic fingerprinting, so what does it matter if the casings are added to a national database? Costs them nothing. And if it solves crimes, that means less gun legislation. Too bad they did not come up with this idiot scheme instead of a AW ban or Mag ban back in 1994. [b]BTW, every manufacturer that sells [handguns] into NY or MD does it. THAT MEANS EVERY HANDGUN MANUFACTURER. What are you going to buy now?[/b] Now, before you flame me, I think it is the BIGGEST waste of money and effort I have seen. Clearly, this is being put forth by those that sell the Database software, or the fingerprinting machines.
Gloftoe
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:50:25 PM
Doesn't Maryland have a requiremment that new handguns sold in that state need to have "ballistic fingerprinting" done to them? Could this be why the Glock VP made that stupid statement? I carry a Glock 19 every damn day. When I bought it (new) two years ago, there were no shell casings included or anything. What's the deal? Looks like I'll be calling Glock pretty soon to complain. Anyone have a transcript of what was said, so that I don't go off half-cocked?
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ilikelegs
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:51:31 PM
[Last Edit: 2/9/2003 8:52:12 PM by ilikelegs]
I don't own a glock and won't be buying one. I thought they were over rated any.
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
At least the weather will be nice. I'd hate for it to rain. I might get wet like when I pee myself.
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racer934
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:56:19 PM
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: I don't own a glock and won't be buying one. I thought they were over rated any.
Ditto. -934, [s]Looking to buy a G27.[/s]
Arock
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:56:25 PM
In the context of the entire Sixty Minutes program, the Glock VP is now in opposition to Wayne Pierre and the NRA. The more I think about it the more disgusted I am with the Glock VP for letting himself get used like that by the anti's.
We are living in a golden age. The past was pretty awful; the future will be far worse. Enjoy!
Wolfpack
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:56:42 PM
Glocks are great guns, I carry a 27 everytime I leave my house. I'm not gonna commit any crimes so why exactly do I care if they have a shell casing from my gun? If I murder someone I have more to worry about than a shell casing sitting in a fed warehouse somewhere, if my gun is ever stolen I will report it as so. IMHO the gun I carry must go [b]BOOM[/b] everytime I pull the trigger....give me my Glock which has never had a FTF or a FTE.
Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of "Enola Gay"
Flying out of the shockwave on that August day
All the powers that be, and the course of history,
Would be changed forevermore...
SorryOciffer
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Posted: 2/9/2003 8:59:32 PM
You can still get around it. It says on NEW guns. Have a buddy buy the gun who is in another state then "buy" it from him. It is now considered used and not required for the BF'ing. It will cost you a little more but you get a clean gun. The problem is that there is a high ranking official in glock that supports it nation wide and said so on TV. Now there will likely be the anti's saying "see even the gun makers support "common sense" laws" SorryOciffer
SorryOciffer
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:03:14 PM
It was also said on the show that ZERO crimes have been solved in NY or MD by the use of BF. SorryOciffer
Silence
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:03:15 PM
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: Glocks are great guns, I carry a 27 everytime I leave my house. I'm not gonna commit any crimes so why exactly do I care if they have a shell casing from my gun? If I murder someone I have more to worry about than a shell casing sitting in a fed warehouse somewhere, if my gun is ever stolen I will report it as so. IMHO the gun I carry must go [b]BOOM[/b] everytime I pull the trigger....give me my Glock which has never had a FTF or a FTE.
I guess you support Licensing and Registration, afterall you probably wont be using your gun(s) in crimes, you shouldnt mind if the government keeps track of them.
SWS
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:03:40 PM
Glock doesn't need or care about your business. They sell thousands of guns to LE every year. Unlike S&W, non-LEO sales are a small portion of their business.
Ikari
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:05:15 PM
Ha! I knew there was a good reason for going with the XD! [BD] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p2c2ff61e06e4b8fc717dbddead382ab3/fcb38683.jpg[/img]
Maynard
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:07:54 PM
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: Glocks are great guns, I carry a 27 everytime I leave my house. I'm not gonna commit any crimes so why exactly do I care if they have a shell casing from my gun? If I murder someone I have more to worry about than a shell casing sitting in a fed warehouse somewhere, if my gun is ever stolen I will report it as so. IMHO the gun I carry must go [b]BOOM[/b] everytime I pull the trigger....give me my Glock which has never had a FTF or a FTE.
Haven't we compromised enough? Haven't we learned that more laws or restrictions actually increase crime? Will a huge database of ballistic fingerprinting even work? Who will pay for it? It isn't about being a potential criminal, it's about shedding the Government yoke and it's a damn shame that someone who supplies one of the best pistols made agrees we should have increasing infringement into our lives and freedom.
Silence
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:08:03 PM
Originally Posted By SorryOciffer: You can still get around it. It says on NEW guns. Have a buddy buy the gun who is in another state then "buy" it from him. It is now considered used and not required for the BF'ing. It will cost you a little more but you get a clean gun.
Ahh, but the next step will be to require EVERY transfer to be recorded and 'fingerprinted'. This will happen after the 'new only' fingerprinting fails to have any effect.
Wolfpack
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:11:03 PM
[Last Edit: 2/9/2003 9:11:36 PM by Wolfpack]
Originally Posted By Silence:
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: Glocks are great guns, I carry a 27 everytime I leave my house. I'm not gonna commit any crimes so why exactly do I care if they have a shell casing from my gun? If I murder someone I have more to worry about than a shell casing sitting in a fed warehouse somewhere, if my gun is ever stolen I will report it as so. IMHO the gun I carry must go [b]BOOM[/b] everytime I pull the trigger....give me my Glock which has never had a FTF or a FTE.
I guess you support Licensing and Registration, afterall you [red]probably[/red] wont be using your gun(s) in crimes, you shouldnt mind if the government keeps track of them.
Wrong, I [b]won't[/b] be using my guns in crimes. I already have to register them with the Las Vegas Police so what's new? You can go and boycott Glock for the rest of eternity but I [b]PERSONALLY[/b] would rather have a gun that works and a shell casing in a warehouse somewhere than a gun I'm not so sure will work and no casing. Glock has been doing the shell casing thing for a year now, why are you all of a sudden upset?
Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of "Enola Gay"
Flying out of the shockwave on that August day
All the powers that be, and the course of history,
Would be changed forevermore...
Arock
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:14:26 PM
Originally Posted By SorryOciffer: It was also said on the show that ZERO crimes have been solved in NY or MD by the use of BF. SorryOciffer
And what's even more revealing about CBS and Sixty Minutes true agenda is that after saying exactly what you quoted, the talking head gave that as a reason to have a National Ballistic Fingerprinting Database. If a program doesn't work on the state level, we must submit to its failure on the national level as well. Especially as the talking head said, to get to a national registration system. But he said the national registration WOULD NOT LEAD TO CONFISCATION. We can believe him, he said it on TV.
We are living in a golden age. The past was pretty awful; the future will be far worse. Enjoy!
gardenWeasel
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:14:26 PM
Great. Another manufacturer that is willing to bend over backwards to please everyone except for the people who actually buy their products.
SouthernShark
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:16:35 PM
The people here who don't see the harm live in the world of the politically naive and ignorant. I'm not trying to flame you. But we will LOOSE if we keep giving up ground and getting NOTHING in return. It is ALWAYS harmful when we agree to a regulation and get NOTHING back. Once again, the CRIME you commit, might just be OWNING a gun. Don't kid yourself. These people don't give a shit about law enforcement. What they want is to disarm the American people. Anytime you let them get away with something, you are LOSING ground. Glock is advocating that we agree to this scheme even though we are getting nothing in exchange. That's not a compromise. That's a situation where they win and we get nothing. The next topic WILL BE REGISTRATION. Once they get the guns fingerprinted then they will register them. Then the next step will be confiscation. I know that some of you don't realize this. But you are DEAD WRONG and you just don't get it. Its time to realize that you are either WITH US or AGAINST US. There is no middle ground.
Arock
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:17:50 PM
The good folks on Glock Talk seem either oblivious to what the Glock VP said or not want to discuss it. The subject was broached once and is quickly falling off their radar screen.
We are living in a golden age. The past was pretty awful; the future will be far worse. Enjoy!
Wolfpack
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:21:48 PM
You guys are doing a lot of talking [b]here[/b], I don't see anyone posting emails that they sent to Glock...why? Another thing...ever heard of a private party sale? Almost every single gun I own has no yellow sheet on it...do it!
Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of "Enola Gay"
Flying out of the shockwave on that August day
All the powers that be, and the course of history,
Would be changed forevermore...
SorryOciffer
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:22:06 PM
It should be said that it was not said that it was glocks official stance however a high ranking officer in the corp would be in doo doo I would think if expressed it without company ok, it would be bad PR or misleading. SorryOciffer
Silence
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:24:47 PM
Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
Originally Posted By Silence:
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: Glocks are great guns, I carry a 27 everytime I leave my house. I'm not gonna commit any crimes so why exactly do I care if they have a shell casing from my gun? If I murder someone I have more to worry about than a shell casing sitting in a fed warehouse somewhere, if my gun is ever stolen I will report it as so. IMHO the gun I carry must go [b]BOOM[/b] everytime I pull the trigger....give me my Glock which has never had a FTF or a FTE.
I guess you support Licensing and Registration, afterall you [red]probably[/red] wont be using your gun(s) in crimes, you shouldnt mind if the government keeps track of them.
Wrong, I [b]won't[/b] be using my guns in crimes. I already have to register them with the Las Vegas Police so what's new? You can go and boycott Glock for the rest of eternity but I [b]PERSONALLY[/b] would rather have a gun that works and a shell casing in a warehouse somewhere than a gun I'm not so sure will work and no casing. Glock has been doing the shell casing thing for a year now, why are you all of a sudden upset?
Well, I guess when it is a crime to own a gun you will meakly turn yours in. Thanks for the sell out...
Maynard
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:25:47 PM
Originally Posted By Arock: The good folks on Glock Talk seem either oblivious to what the Glock VP said or not want to discuss it. The subject was broached once and is quickly falling off their radar screen.
Not surprising. I would imagine quite a few of GT'ers would be in favor of it actually. I'm sure kittens will show up sooner or later in that thread though.
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:28:51 PM
Man Wolfpack, you act like Glocks are the only pistols worth using. There are plenty of other super reliable guns out there. My Kimber 1911 and my friend's Sig 220, for example. Boycotting Glock will show Beretta, HK, Sig, SA, etc. what they should do to keep the private customers' business. Besides, Glock triggers suck. Time to leave Glock behind, move on, and never look back. I was planning on getting a Glock 36. But now it'll be the Kimber Ultra Carry. I bite my thumb at Glock.
Silence
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:28:55 PM
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: You guys are doing a lot of talking [b]here[/b], I don't see anyone posting emails that they sent to Glock...why? Another thing...ever heard of a private party sale? Almost every single gun I own has no yellow sheet on it...do it!
Erm, think for a minute... Private Sales are an endangered species, they are already being targeted by the anti's. If, and when, they have their way EVERY transaction will have to go through a dealer, some states already require this.
Badseed
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:32:54 PM
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: You guys are doing a lot of talking [b]here[/b], I don't see anyone posting emails that they sent to Glock...why?
Glock Email addresses are unpublished, that's why. Even their domain records point to a generic account at earthlink where they have their DNS servers. So, being late at nite on a Sunday, there is not a lot of action to be taken until their switchboard opens up in the morning.
BOFH
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:36:38 PM
Pffft Another manufacturer shitlisted! Oh well, Sigs and HKs are better guns anyway. I haven't bought a Ruger since 1990. It has been about that long since I bought a Smith or a Colt.
Wolfpack
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:36:51 PM
My Ruger 10/22 came with 2 expended cartridges.....BAN RUGER!!
Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of "Enola Gay"
Flying out of the shockwave on that August day
All the powers that be, and the course of history,
Would be changed forevermore...
Wolfpack
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:37:51 PM
[Last Edit: 2/9/2003 9:38:28 PM by Wolfpack]
My Walther P-22 came with 2 expended cartridges...BAN WALTHER!!!
Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of "Enola Gay"
Flying out of the shockwave on that August day
All the powers that be, and the course of history,
Would be changed forevermore...
SteyrAUG
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:38:55 PM
This is NOT new. Glock has been supporting this program for at least 3 years. I stopped buying Glock back then. I thought everyone knew. A few years back when MD started their ballistic fingerprint program Glock was one of the first to particiapte so that Glocks could be sold in MD.
It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

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JohnBlade23
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:39:53 PM
EVERYONE! GO TO GLOCK'S WEB SITE AND EMAIL THEM, CALL THEM, AND WRITE THEM LETTERS! DEMAND THAT THEY CHANGE THEIR STANCE ON THIS ISSUE. EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE OR USE GLOCKS THEIR STATEMENT HURTS THE 2ND ADMENDMENT!
SteyrAUG
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:46:44 PM
Here's a link to tonights 60 Minutes episode which I did see. [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml[/url] but strangely the Ballistic Fingerprint story doesn't seem to be there. And while it's true that ANY manufacture who want to sell handguns uin MD must participate with this program, unlike Glock, most don't endorse the program. Glock thinks it is a good idea and should go national.
It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

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Badseed
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:52:33 PM
Originally Posted By Maynard:
Originally Posted By Arock: The good folks on Glock Talk seem either oblivious to what the Glock VP said or not want to discuss it. The subject was broached once and is quickly falling off their radar screen.
Not surprising. I would imagine quite a few of GT'ers would be in favor of it actually. [blue]I'm sure kittens will show up sooner or later in that thread though.[/blue]
[rofl2][rofl2][rofl2][rofl2]
Shoot-N-Scoot
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:53:42 PM
I dont have this problem. I have seen to many of them that have blown up, and know the kompany that makes them are willing to sell out the private sector....stupid. Glock does not care, there leo market will float there boat and make "GLOCK" a more sought after name. There was a time when I was a kid that everyone wanted nikes....they still suck. SNS
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Posted: 2/9/2003 9:57:51 PM
Originally Posted By Badseed:
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: You guys are doing a lot of talking [b]here[/b], I don't see anyone posting emails that they sent to Glock...why?
Glock Email addresses are unpublished, that's why. Even their domain records point to a generic account at earthlink where they have their DNS servers. So, being late at nite on a Sunday, there is not a lot of action to be taken until their switchboard opens up in the morning.
mullen@dietcoke mullen $ dig glock.com mx ; <<>> DiG 9.2.2rc1 <<>> glock.com mx ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 56665 ;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 3, ADDITIONAL: 4 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;glock.com. IN MX ;; ANSWER SECTION: glock.com. 21600 IN MX 10 store-forward.mspring.net. glock.com. 21600 IN MX 3 mail1.glock.com. ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: glock.com. 21600 IN NS speakeasy.earthlink.net. glock.com. 21600 IN NS hearsay.earthlink.net. glock.com. 21600 IN NS rumor.earthlink.net. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: mail1.glock.com. 21600 IN A 212.152.154.155 speakeasy.earthlink.net. 1004 IN A 207.69.188.200 hearsay.earthlink.net. 1004 IN A 207.69.188.201 rumor.earthlink.net. 1064 IN A 207.69.188.202 ;; Query time: 1114 msec ;; SERVER: 24.25.195.1#53(24.25.195.1) ;; WHEN: Sat Feb 8 06:19:13 2003 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 239 The Earthlink servers are just fallover mail servers and that's it. They have a real mailserver in Austria. And: mullen@dietcoke mullen $ nslookup -sil www.glock.com Non-authoritative answer: www.glock.com canonical name = glock.com. Name: glock.com Address: 64.82.110.233 mullen@dietcoke mullen $ nslookup -sil mail1.glock.com Non-authoritative answer: Name: mail1.glock.com Address: 212.152.154.155 mullen@dietcoke mullen $ The Earthlink must be a mirror of their DNS to make queries quicker. Anyway, for the non-technical people, you might be able to send mail to complants@glock.com or send it to the VP.
EricE
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Posted: 2/9/2003 10:01:25 PM
Originally Posted By BOFH: Pffft Another manufacturer shitlisted! Oh well, Sigs and HKs are better guns anyway. I haven't bought a Ruger since 1990. It has been about that long since I bought a Smith or a Colt.
Point in fact - I just purchased a brand new Colt 1911 and had it customized. - When it came from the factory, it had a $10 off a 1 year NRA Membership coupon in it... I wonder if Colt is changing it's ways? Most of you may say "hell no", but I was still happy to see that. Eric
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Posted: 2/9/2003 10:01:29 PM
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: My Walther P-22 came with 2 expended cartridges...BAN WALTHER!!!
Look, I'll use small words so that you can understand. Your Walther came with casings to comply with MD law. If the gun was sold in MD the dealer would have had to turn the casing in to the state. You got yours because you live in a state with no such stupid law. This Glock VP wants to take it to the National level, meaning that your pistol would NOT have come with the cases because the Feds would have it. No matter how you look at it it's defacto legislation and I can't believe you can't see that! Oh well they've been doing it for years is no defence to sit on your ass and take it! Wake up!
guy who likes to gripe

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