User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 2:05:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read this post carefully. Then read it again. I've been to several courses over the last 4 years and this assessment is spot on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
After about 10 years of shooting courses here is what I learned.. There is no advance training... the basics take a life long commitment to master... Guns don't need to be spotless.. they need to be lubed... Cheap guns tend to have more issues, then good grade, made to a spec guns.. I can run Wolf ammo all day long with a good gun and lube... A simple rig with 4-5 magazines works.. I like dump pouches.. they come in handy for lots of stuff... Being in shape.. makes shooting easier... Red dots that work reliably are all I need...and work 24/7/365. All the good instructors... teach and preach the basics...sight alignment...trigger press...manipulation...and they have the basics mastered,,, and can execute them on demand. Single point slings suck... a good 2 point sling is where it's at... 1911's get a lot of stoppages....and need to be reloaded often,,,, G17's/19's do not. Lighter guns with light/medium barrels and light rails are better then HBARs, Being in shape...makes shooting easier... Always get on the #1 target... and you never eat someone Else's brass...(unless there is a lefty on #2). Fancy $100 muzzle brakes suck, are loud and not needed. Magnified Optics suck up close. $200 triggers are nice, but don't help bad shooters. Good shooters can rock a stock trigger all day long. The guys with $200 Camo pants with built in knee pads... rarely shoot very well.... Being in shape... makes shooting easier.... The Army had no clue about gun fighting and training during my career time frame... Most shooters suck with a pistol and can make good hits easily with a rifle. Most shooters struggle with reloading.. Malfunction clearance and keeping there gun loaded, Learning ammo/magazine management on your gear is a good skill that helps keep a full magazine always available. Using your magazine as a monopod works great, and does not cause malfunctions... Your don't need to space the gap on your gas rings. no you don't...the gun will work fine...until the gas rings wear a little and override each other causing a problem Good Aluminum GI mags work just fine with good no tilt followers. Magpul magazines also work well, but are not magic. That's about it... Read this post carefully. Then read it again. I've been to several courses over the last 4 years and this assessment is spot on. mine also except for the part in red. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 2:12:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sarcasm meter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The changes after my first class: Lighter rifle! Replaced match trigger with milspec. Went with simpler sling. Went with fixed irons instead of flip ups. My defensive rifles are now very KISS with the exception of Aimpoint and light. Taking a night class resulted in changing lights. I did use a Surefire X300 Ultra, but the design of the push button on the back was not comfortable with a lot of use. I now much prefer the Streamlight TLR-1 HL. Smart move, match triggers are known to break all the time. If you want reliability I would never trust one. Not a "match" trigger but, my SSAs have been rock solid. SSA and SSA-E have been problem-free for me as well. Sarcasm meter. The reason for switching to a milspec trigger is more to do with the fact that under stress, a 3 lb trigger is not ideal. I now run ALG triggers on my defensive carbines. The one SSA trigger I own goes on my 3-gun rifle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 2:20:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Not really. My instructor provided specific configuration recommendations well before the class and I followed them. Several classmates did not and their experience was less fulfilling because they spent more time fiddling with crap that didn't work.
The only thing I changed is my pistol-grip. I did the class with a standard A2 grip and it did a number on my 'bird' finger. By the end of class I had a foam ear-plug stuffed into the cavity at the rear of the trigger guard and had moleskin taped around the blister on the side of my finger. A BCM gunfighter grip cured this problem forever. Most humorous observation of the class was watching the guys with multi-mode lights strobing and S.O.S.ing their way through the night drills. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 2:40:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The reason for switching to a milspec trigger is more to do with the fact that under stress, a 3 lb trigger is not ideal. I now run ALG triggers on my defensive carbines. The one SSA trigger I own goes on my 3-gun rifle. How many firefights have you been in? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 3:01:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many firefights have you been in? The thread is about carbine courses, not combat. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 3:21:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thread is about carbine courses, not combat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How many firefights have you been in? The thread is about carbine courses, not combat. Funny, seems to me it's about people with little to no experience spouting off random bull shit. What's the point of a carbine class? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 3:38:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny, seems to me it's about people with little to no experience spouting off random bull shit. What's the point of a carbine class? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How many firefights have you been in? The thread is about carbine courses, not combat. Funny, seems to me it's about people with little to no experience spouting off random bull shit. What's the point of a carbine class? the point of the class is two fold... one training....because everybody can use more two fun.... we would not shoot if it was not fun... |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 3:43:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny, seems to me it's about people with little to no experience spouting off random bull shit. What's the point of a carbine class? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How many firefights have you been in? The thread is about carbine courses, not combat. Funny, seems to me it's about people with little to no experience spouting off random bull shit. What's the point of a carbine class? Mostly to pound in the basics of weapon manipulation, mechanical offset, malfunction drills, reloads, ammo management, positional shooting, and some other BASIC stuff. Even advanced courses do not feature FoF; things just happen faster, shooting is more dynamic, and standards creep upward. A carbine class is NOT designed to prep a shooter for combat. You'll get drills that teach shooting on the move, basic use of cover, and balancing accuracy against speed and physical stress (heartbeat, breathing, sweat, all the good stuff that comes from moving quickly) but almost no one is going to teach squad-level tactics (let alone anything more complicated) and almost no one is going to have folks shoot back at you. That having been said, some folks are throwing in experience with 3Gun or other shooting sports, which is not quite the same thing as a carbine course. As well, not all courses are created equal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 3:50:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many firefights have you been in? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The reason for switching to a milspec trigger is more to do with the fact that under stress, a 3 lb trigger is not ideal. I now run ALG triggers on my defensive carbines. The one SSA trigger I own goes on my 3-gun rifle. How many firefights have you been in? None. That is why I trusted my instructor on this issue. The trigger I had was a single stage JP trigger. I actually consider the SSA a good trigger for a defensive carbine, I just can't afford a bunch of them. The ALG is good enough for that role. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 3:51:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny, seems to me it's about people with little to no experience spouting off random bull shit. What's the point of a carbine class? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How many firefights have you been in? The thread is about carbine courses, not combat. Funny, seems to me it's about people with little to no experience spouting off random bull shit. What's the point of a carbine class? To learn to shoot better, silly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 4:02:04 PM EDT
[#11]
A solid carbine course based on standards common in Ranger Regiment or SF should be part of AIT for Infantry.
I was fortunate enough to get some really good instruction from guys who had been to both SOT's, as well as SF CIF Team common drills for CQM. The civilian sector could do about a 2000% better job of running Advanced Individual Training/SOI for Army and Marine Infantry, based on a program of instruction developed by retired SF/MARSOC/JSOC veterans. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 4:04:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pics of this or GTFO... 
LOL! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
same thing with my GF, but not just because she is simply a lady - rather, it's because she has caught teh cross-eye dominatrix and a red dot makes that so much easier. Pics of this or GTFO...
LOL! in her plain clothes 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 4:32:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 200yd+ handgun shots are dumb. Bro, do you even pistol-snipe? Bring the pistol from HALO or go home..
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/19/2014 10:52:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A solid carbine course based on standards common in Ranger Regiment or SF should be part of AIT for Infantry. I was fortunate enough to get some really good instruction from guys who had been to both SOT's, as well as SF CIF Team common drills for CQM. The civilian sector could do about a 2000% better job of running Advanced Individual Training/SOI for Army and Marine Infantry, based on a program of instruction developed by retired SF/MARSOC/JSOC veterans. Fuck that. Let GD instruct. They just laugh off those people anyways. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/20/2014 1:36:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
same thing with my GF, but not just because she is simply a lady - rather, it's because she has caught teh cross-eye dominatrix and a red dot makes that so much easier. Pics of this or GTFO...
LOL! in her plain clothes
http://i.imgur.com/xgbSAPZ.jpg OK you can stay. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/21/2014 12:19:44 AM EDT
[#16]
The first class I took was on a cold rainy day in March. One thing I learned is that just because you can do something when you are comfortable in your home or on a nice day doesn't mean you can do it when you are cold and wet and your hands are losing dexterity and you have gloves on. Learned to spend more money on better rain gear and cold weather stuff.
Also learned the opposite of the prevailing wisdom in this thread about carrying mags. I found that 4 mags go faster then I would have thought and I found myself with an empty rifle and and empty chest rig. Depends on who you are and what you are doing but I think if you need a rifle and a chest rig then you might also need a lot of ammo. I've been working out and getting in better shape over the last couple of years and anytime I take firearms class I am glad for that because at the end of the day you can really tell who is in shape to do this sort of stuff and who is not. And that is just more or less just being on your feet and holding a gun not climbing up and down stairs all day or running with a rucksack on. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/21/2014 1:13:24 AM EDT
[#17]
I seem to change something after every training class, even if it is something small and mundane.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/21/2014 1:23:16 AM EDT
[#18]
A real eye opener for me was having to stand for 1+ hours without a break.
I really appreciate sitting down all day everyday after completing carbine school. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/21/2014 1:45:44 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No Molle,? Your department needs to open their wallet a bit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am in TX and CSAT has my attention....I am currently just getting what work offers and is mandatory anyway. Question to LE guys going to these courses... Are you running an active shooter - type rig with plate carrier set ups? OR are you using a chest rig? I have both set ups and could just bring both. To me, a battle belt doesn't work since I have my duty belt and not enough 'tactical girth' for the extra shhhtuff. I would always be donning a chest rig or PC, for my purposes. The thought of this thread is neat but as has been mentioned in a few ways, everyone has different needs from training. When I go to training as LE, yes, I grab what I would wear for an active shooter/hot call (whenever I think I might need the rifle, I put my PC on). Unfortunately, my issued PC has no Molle attachments/mag pouches, so when I go to a training, I do the same thing I would do on duty, and stuff a couple of rifle magazines in my cargo pocket. Not as effective as having dedicated mag pouches, but it's what I've got to work with. No Molle,? Your department needs to open their wallet a bit. It's in the works. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/21/2014 9:33:47 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A real eye opener for me was having to stand for 1+ hours without a break. I really appreciate sitting down all day everyday after completing carbine school. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/21/2014 9:47:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A real eye opener for me was having to stand for 1+ hours without a break. I really appreciate sitting down all day everyday after completing carbine school. You've got a tank under your name Never had to stand in formation sweating on some parade field in uniform for hours listening to someone drone on, or a BDE change of command ceremony or some such similar large event? Even pass-in-review? I hear what you're saying, though |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/21/2014 10:18:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The reason for switching to a milspec trigger is more to do with the fact that under stress, a 3 lb trigger is not ideal. I now run ALG triggers on my defensive carbines. The one SSA trigger I own goes on my 3-gun rifle. A light (SSA type) trigger takes a little to get use to for combat type shooting. If you don't practice with it then it could be a problem under stress. However, once you do master the discipline it then it should produce better placed shots than the standard trigger. That is my humble opinion. On the other hand if you practice with a heavy trigger and develop discipline then you can probably be just as effective. The key is not the equipment as much as it is the practice you are willing to put in to master shooting under stress. If you haven't practiced a lot then it probably doesn't matter if you have a GI standard or an enhanced trigger. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/8/2014 10:16:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Read through the whole thread a couple weeks ago, very informative and thanks to everyone who posted. It helped me shape my 16" carbine build and was a reminder to keep it simple!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/8/2014 10:31:49 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read through the whole thread a couple weeks ago, very informative and thanks to everyone who posted. It helped me shape my 16" carbine build and was a reminder to keep it simple! You're welcome. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/8/2014 10:54:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Take a class at Tactical Response did you? If you attended a quality class taught by a good instructor, you would not see these problems. According to a magazine article (on using the weapon magazine as a monopod that I cannot fucking find at the moment) they claimed to have trained 40,000. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/8/2014 10:57:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The first class I took was on a cold rainy day in March. One thing I learned is that just because you can do something when you are comfortable in your home or on a nice day doesn't mean you can do it when you are cold and wet and your hands are losing dexterity and you have gloves on. Learned to spend more money on better rain gear and cold weather stuff. <snip> I always use my carbine setups for hunting a few times. This means, in Texas, I've used it cold, wet, hot, and dry, in burning sun and cold dawn/dusk. And hunting from stands and by stalking means I've used it in confined areas, while climbing ravines and moving through dense scrub, and in big fields, and on stuff 2 yards and 200 yards away. It isn't perfect, but it has been fun. I've changed my setup several times as a I discovered things that did and did not work, or that worked better. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/8/2014 11:45:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Special thanks to Harv24 for his list of wise concise advice. Specifically:
Dump pouch Magazine as monopod Be in shape 2 point sling Basics basics basics Lighter gun Ammo/mag management My favorite: target #1. This paid off all day every day. No brass down my shirt, in my face or on my neck/shoulders. Thanks again for all the info!! I've done scouting, NRA certs, Appleseed and 3gun but recently started into more dedicated training and really enjoy it! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 12:00:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've got a tank under your name Never had to stand in formation sweating on some parade field in uniform for hours listening to someone drone on, or a BDE change of command ceremony or some such similar large event? Even pass-in-review? I hear what you're saying, though Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A real eye opener for me was having to stand for 1+ hours without a break. I really appreciate sitting down all day everyday after completing carbine school. You've got a tank under your name Never had to stand in formation sweating on some parade field in uniform for hours listening to someone drone on, or a BDE change of command ceremony or some such similar large event? Even pass-in-review? I hear what you're saying, though Lol |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 1:02:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Great thread. TAG
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 1:05:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:99% of all issues I would ever encounter (in my area) as a LEO or off duty citizen will be handled with a half dozen rounds from whatever platform I happen to have in my hands at the time. +1 Assuming you're even a crappy shooter you ought to be able to get half of those rounds into your target. If someone is still standing and fighting after taking three hits from a .223 in the center of mass call in an air strike.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 1:07:36 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It wasn't a carbine course, it was a 4 month ground combat training in the military. Took all the mags from my rig in the front and put them on my sides, flopping prone, or laying prone for hours at a time sucks with mags keeping you from breathing. +1 again Prone is safer. A harness that puts the magazines on the sides or opens in the middle gets you closer to the planet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 9:44:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1 again Prone is safer. A harness that puts the magazines on the sides or opens in the middle gets you closer to the planet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It wasn't a carbine course, it was a 4 month ground combat training in the military. Took all the mags from my rig in the front and put them on my sides, flopping prone, or laying prone for hours at a time sucks with mags keeping you from breathing. +1 again Prone is safer. A harness that puts the magazines on the sides or opens in the middle gets you closer to the planet. either one of yall have a picture of what something like that looks like? how do you mount them so it's not too hard to get out? at the belt level? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 11:06:28 AM EDT
[#33]
Yep, I ditched the vertical fore grip, moved my flashlight underneath and went to a single loop sling
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 11:11:33 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Paul Howe will and has kicked people out of his classes for that. He's a pretty easy-going guy but doesn't tolerate any safety violations. Period. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And. Too many fucks sweeping the class, or just not following the rules in general.....no more classes for me because of this. Which sucks as it was a good amount of range time Paul Howe will and has kicked people out of his classes for that. He's a pretty easy-going guy but doesn't tolerate any safety violations. Period. Yup. I've seen that happen at a Howe class more than once. People sent away to compose themselves (and that wasn't sweeping, that was an ND in a safe direction) as well as two people get sent home for being unsafe (flagging their own hands during drawstrokes, not even as bad as flagging other people). I do believe it would mark the coming of the Apocalypse if a good instructor like Howe ever had people sweeping each other on the line without it being instantly rectified. Sounds like you had a poor instructor, name him. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 2:17:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, I ditched the vertical fore grip,why - what barrel length/handguard type/length moved my flashlight underneath why and went to a single loop slingwhy Interesting changes |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 3:53:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting changes Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yep, I ditched the vertical fore grip,why - what barrel length/handguard type/length moved my flashlight underneath why and went to a single loop slingwhy Interesting changes Same setup DEVGRU uses |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/10/2014 12:03:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Gripstop is the best handstop/VFG out there in my opinion. Embrace the radius! Only difference between that photo and now is that I'm sporting the LWRC UCIW stock and it's painted. Also changed the sling to play with this new one. Only other plan is to toss a Surefire Scout on the rail. I found I can mount it between the picatinny rail and the side at an angle so it'll be at the 1 o'clock position. That or a WML on top in the front. 
Older photo without the Aimpoint Pro 
Even older with a heavy LaRue rail in it's 11.5" configuration... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/20/2014 2:52:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A real eye opener for me was having to stand for 1+ hours without a break. I really appreciate sitting down all day everyday after completing carbine school. I almost done the eye roll then I saw your tank. You made a funny.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2014 7:26:19 AM EDT
[#39]
bump
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2014 7:51:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes sense for CAG (often three mags) may or may not make sense for others. A friend carried 10 mags every day in Africa and was on his last when rotor support arrived. This. The mission drives the gear. There are plenty of scenarios where 10-12 mags would not be enough...just as there are plenty where 1 would be plenty. For LE, there are documented cases of guys with ARs running dry and having no spares as they deployed the AR without any additional kit to hold mags and just had the one in the rifle. Additionally, you have to know who you are talking about...some guys are shooters and in an event, are going to get in the fight. Some guys are talkers and in a fight, will find a radio and start blabbering. Some guys will get behind something solid and start yelling and looking around...some guys will do nothing at all. Shooters need more ammo. Talkers need less. Guys who do nothing should carry more so they can hand it off to everyone else. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2015 1:33:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Wanna give this thread one last spin around the block...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2015 7:52:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I recently attended the Tactical Rifle Operator 1 course offered by Paul Howe at his CSAT range. What an eye-opening experience... After going through the course using my gear and interacting with other students & looking at/handling their rifles, I'm making some significant changes to my gear. I was running a chest rig with six mags...I found that was too bulky and that my back-up chest rig that holds three mags was lighter and easier to use. I'm also moving away from vertical foregrips and tape switches for my weapon lights. My rifle didn't aim very naturally for me and the tape switches were prone to being accidentally activated. I've since changed to Magpul AFG 2's and clicky tailcaps on my lights. The angle of the AFG 2 is much more natural for me and allows me to get on target faster. Also, stock triggers pretty much suck. Looking forward to getting that Larue MBT-2S trigger in the near future... What have your experiences been? Carbine courses, no. Deployments, yes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2015 7:54:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None. That is why I trusted my instructor on this issue. The trigger I had was a single stage JP trigger. I actually consider the SSA a good trigger for a defensive carbine, I just can't afford a bunch of them. The ALG is good enough for that role. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The reason for switching to a milspec trigger is more to do with the fact that under stress, a 3 lb trigger is not ideal. I now run ALG triggers on my defensive carbines. The one SSA trigger I own goes on my 3-gun rifle. How many firefights have you been in? None. That is why I trusted my instructor on this issue. The trigger I had was a single stage JP trigger. I actually consider the SSA a good trigger for a defensive carbine, I just can't afford a bunch of them. The ALG is good enough for that role. The entire U.S. infantry runs on stock GI triggers. We seem to do pretty well. Anything that is better than that is just a big plus. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2015 7:57:15 PM EDT
[#44]
No.
I attended a course in 2013...my rifle (at the time) was a colt 6720 w/ sopmod, Vtac rail, LMT front sight, Matech rear, Aimpoint PRO, ergo grip, and a vtac two point sling with a magpul stubby grip. I changed rifles since then but that rifle is still in the same config. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
