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Posted: 10/30/2014 1:10:16 PM EDT
Video link for phones
12 gauge Remington #4 buckshot (27 pellet) fired from 18.5" barrel Mossberg 500A cylinder bore into calibrated 10% gelatin. BB: 590.5 fps, 3.7" Impact velocity: 1,245 fps Min penetration: 11.0" Max penetration: over 14" Pellet weight: 19.2 gr Pellet diameter: 0.249" *Note: 7 pellets exited the back of the 14" block. That means that 62.5% of the pellets that were captured in the block exceeded the 12" minimum requirement. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:26:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Thank you for your test.
Any idea what each #4 pellet weighs? Or what the diameter is? Just straight lead? Copper plated? With a buffer? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:14:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Pellet weight: 19.2 gr
Pellet diameter: 0.249" Straight lead, no plating, buffered. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:19:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Nice test. I like number four. Though mosylt recommend one or bigger.
Good video. Thanks for the effort. Shotguns suck anyway though. Ar15 all the way. 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:19:52 PM EDT
[#4]
My favorite shotgun load.
 Picked up a few more boxes just last week.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:26:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Daum, shot it through a crono.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:45:31 PM EDT
[#6]
One of my neighbors swore by it for up close and personal social encounters; three tours in Vietnam, two w/ 5th Special Forces, and a bad case of PTSD and he had some pretty guesome pictures to back up his argument.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:54:50 PM EDT
[#7]
This my preferred load for coyotes. I use #1 buck in my HD shottie.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 7:30:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Doesn't matter, I only use two shots in the air of birdshot for home defense.....
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Posted: 10/30/2014 7:34:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Is the shotgun the best option for HD?
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Posted: 10/30/2014 7:38:53 PM EDT
[#10]
It has been a proven deer load. Shot shells kill by multiple wound paths, not by lucky golden BBs hitting critical areas. This means pattern density is crucial, a few blue whistlers in an open pattern is far from ideal.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:44:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice test. I like number four. Though mosylt recommend one or bigger. Good video. Thanks for the effort. Shotguns suck anyway though. Ar15 all the way. Thank you. I agree. My HD rifle is a suppressed SBR. Our shotgun is loaded with Federal low recoil 00 buck. Might be a good choice for apartment dwellers. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:45:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doesn't matter, I only use two shots in the air of birdshot for home defense..... http://replygif.net/i/1459.gif I thought we were supposed to shoot through the door. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:45:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It has been a proven deer load. Shot shells kill by multiple wound paths, not by lucky golden BBs hitting critical areas. This means pattern density is crucial, a few blue whistlers in an open pattern is far from ideal. Does this mean you would favor #4 buck or prefer something heavier? |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 7:49:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does this mean you would favor #4 buck or prefer something heavier? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It has been a proven deer load. Shot shells kill by multiple wound paths, not by lucky golden BBs hitting critical areas. This means pattern density is crucial, a few blue whistlers in an open pattern is far from ideal. Does this mean you would favor #4 buck or prefer something heavier? . |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 8:05:21 AM EDT
[#15]
I've been a firm believer in #4 buck for use on humans for many years.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 8:10:31 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been a firm believer in #4 buck for use on humans for many years. I load one barrel with 3" magnum number 4 buck and the other with 3" magnum number one buck. The magnum number 4 has 41 pellets. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 8:16:46 AM EDT
[#17]
An AR-15 cant do that kinda damage with a 40 rd mag. And that's one shot from a 12 ga.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 8:34:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Old_Painless has an extensive write-up on 4-buck over on Box o Truth, IIRC
ETA: Oops, it was 1-buck |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 8:58:42 AM EDT
[#19]
A triple tap of .223 (in a proper bullet design) would almost certainly do more damage than that.
AR15>Shotgun. Always |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:06:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A triple tap of .223 (in a proper bullet design) would almost certainly do more damage than that. AR15>Shotgun. Always 
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:15:22 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This my preferred load for coyotes. I use #1 buck in my HD shottie. Stop this. 
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:19:45 AM EDT
[#22]
OMG SHOULD WE HAVE THE SHOTGUN VS AR FOR HOME DEFENSE ARGUMENT AGAIN?!?!?!?!
*fingers crossed*
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:47:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A triple tap of .223 (in a proper bullet design) would almost certainly do more damage than that. AR15>Shotgun. Always I scoff at your assessment |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:53:29 AM EDT
[#24]
I like #4 buck just because it was used in Vietnam with good results. Old Painless has shown there are other options.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:58:28 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A triple tap of .223 (in a proper bullet design) would almost certainly do more damage than that. AR15>Shotgun. Always Of course. But it would be silly and dogmatically short-sighted to not understand the strengths and weaknesses of other weapons. When bad things happen, I'm very comfortable in the knowledge that I can effectively use whatever weapon is lying around. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:02:07 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This my preferred load for coyotes. I use #1 buck in my HD shottie. What kind of effective range do you get with #4 or say #3 buck with a cylinder bore? |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:28:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Great, and I just picked up some replacement 00 Buck with flite control.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:27:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What kind of effective range do you get with #4 or say #3 buck with a cylinder bore? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This my preferred load for coyotes. I use #1 buck in my HD shottie. What kind of effective range do you get with #4 or say #3 buck with a cylinder bore? |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:39:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I load one barrel with 3" magnum number 4 buck and the other with 3" magnum number one buck. The magnum number 4 has 41 pellets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've been a firm believer in #4 buck for use on humans for many years. I load one barrel with 3" magnum number 4 buck and the other with 3" magnum number one buck. The magnum number 4 has 41 pellets.  Holy shit, that's a lot of holes.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:42:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Holy shit, that's a lot of holes.Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've been a firm believer in #4 buck for use on humans for many years. I load one barrel with 3" magnum number 4 buck and the other with 3" magnum number one buck. The magnum number 4 has 41 pellets. Holy shit, that's a lot of holes.I love that load. My home defense shotgun is loaded with 5 rounds of 3" mag #4 buck. 41 pellets per shell like that man said. I imagine it'll do the job. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:43:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An AR-15 cant do that kinda damage with a 40 rd mag. And that's one shot from a 12 ga. I don't know about that. Looks like an AR can do the at least that much with just two or three rounds. And this is just .223 pressure 55 gr FMJ.  " />
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:44:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OMG SHOULD WE HAVE THE SHOTGUN VS AR FOR HOME DEFENSE ARGUMENT AGAIN?!?!?!?! *fingers crossed* Can we argue about whether a 9mm AR is better than a .45 shotgun? |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:48:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great, and I just picked up some replacement 00 Buck with flite control. I think that's still probably the best choice for 12 ga defense. 00 buck will perform better at distance and have MUCH better barrier performance. The #4 buck seems to meet penetration standard but only barely. I'd probably use it if I lived in an apartment but my shotgun is loaded with Federal low recoil 00 buck. Of course, my go to home defense weapon is a suppressed SBR. 
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:49:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My favorite shotgun load. Picked up a few more boxes just last week.My favorite fighting load by far. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:56:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Shit. #4 is da bomb? What am I going to do with all of this #00?
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:00:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Table Mesa?
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:05:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can we argue about whether a 9mm AR is better than a .45 shotgun? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OMG SHOULD WE HAVE THE SHOTGUN VS AR FOR HOME DEFENSE ARGUMENT AGAIN?!?!?!?! *fingers crossed* Can we argue about whether a 9mm AR is better than a .45 shotgun? Get both! 
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:06:48 PM EDT
[#38]
I carry #3 buck in my shotguns, but #4 will do just fine. There doesn't appear to be much difference in size between #3 and #4 buckshot.
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Posted: 11/1/2014 6:24:04 AM EDT
[#39]
I've used #4 buck on Coyotes - It works pretty well. Often drops them in their tracks within 25 yds.
The 3" loads are also impressive in my opinion. Original Bee Hive Round! |
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Posted: 11/1/2014 9:14:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I scoff at your assessment Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A triple tap of .223 (in a proper bullet design) would almost certainly do more damage than that. AR15>Shotgun. Always I scoff at your assessment No matter how many shotgun threads we have, no matter how many times shotguns are debunked as the "best" weapon for HD, there are always more of you. The science is not on your side. |
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Posted: 11/1/2014 7:04:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shit. #4 is da bomb? What am I going to do with all of this #00? Not sure if cereal. 
If so, this particular version of #4 buck appears to be adequate at close range and might be favored by people living in an apartment or who might otherwise be very concerned about penetration. It almost certainly has pretty bad barrier performance and likely loses steam pretty quickly with distance. #00 buck is still favored for general purpose defense. |
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Posted: 11/1/2014 7:06:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Table Mesa? Yes, sir. |
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Posted: 11/1/2014 7:07:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OMG SHOULD WE HAVE THE SHOTGUN VS AR FOR HOME DEFENSE ARGUMENT AGAIN?!?!?!?! *fingers crossed* Can we argue about whether a 9mm AR is better than a .45 shotgun? Get both! http://i40.tinypic.com/swpb84.jpg I don't care how impractical that is. I still want one some day. Maybe based off a Serbu Super Shorty, though. |
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Posted: 11/1/2014 7:14:34 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No matter how many shotgun threads we have, no matter how many times shotguns are debunked as the "best" weapon for HD, there are always more of you. The science is not on your side. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A triple tap of .223 (in a proper bullet design) would almost certainly do more damage than that. AR15>Shotgun. Always I scoff at your assessment No matter how many shotgun threads we have, no matter how many times shotguns are debunked as the "best" weapon for HD, there are always more of you. The science is not on your side. Not to put words in his mouth, but it seemed to me that he was only taking issue with the categorical statement that an AR15 is better than a shotgun at everything. I do prefer an AR for home defense but I've always maintained that the best weapon for YOU is the one with which YOU are most proficient. Lots of folks cut their teeth on guns wing shooting and those guys would have to spend tens of thousands of dollars getting the training that would make them as proficient with an AR as they already are with an 870. |
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Posted: 11/2/2014 2:08:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not to put words in his mouth, but it seemed to me that he was only taking issue with the categorical statement that an AR15 is better than a shotgun at everything. I do prefer an AR for home defense but I've always maintained that the best weapon for YOU is the one with which YOU are most proficient. Lots of folks cut their teeth on guns wing shooting and those guys would have to spend tens of thousands of dollars getting the training that would make them as proficient with an AR as they already are with an 870. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A triple tap of .223 (in a proper bullet design) would almost certainly do more damage than that. AR15>Shotgun. Always I scoff at your assessment No matter how many shotgun threads we have, no matter how many times shotguns are debunked as the "best" weapon for HD, there are always more of you. The science is not on your side. Not to put words in his mouth, but it seemed to me that he was only taking issue with the categorical statement that an AR15 is better than a shotgun at everything. I do prefer an AR for home defense but I've always maintained that the best weapon for YOU is the one with which YOU are most proficient. Lots of folks cut their teeth on guns wing shooting and those guys would have to spend tens of thousands of dollars getting the training that would make them as proficient with an AR as they already are with an 870. Aside from all that 27 .24 caliber pellets in one trigger pull has a lot of stop to it. |
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Posted: 11/2/2014 9:46:29 AM EDT
[#46]
I had to check last night.
my 1300 is loaded with #4 And (2) 00 & (2) slugs in side saddle I havent shot that gun in years. |
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Posted: 11/2/2014 9:50:42 AM EDT
[#47]
I always intended to get some for coyote hunting.
This reminds me to go do that
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Posted: 11/2/2014 9:55:14 AM EDT
[#48]
I've said it before.
If you don't think a shotgun is a viable and effective home defense weapon, than you don't know shit about shotguns. If you think your shotgun is superior to your AR for home defense, than you don't know shit about ARs. Shotgun threads around here always turn into TardCon. |
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Posted: 11/2/2014 9:57:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the shotgun the best option for HD? 
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Posted: 11/2/2014 9:58:27 AM EDT
[#50]
I'd like to see how it does through denim.
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