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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:35:19 AM EDT
[#1]
I think so. I know I've bought guns before where I should have gotten two or three mags. It used to be harder to verify but now specs are online, so I am going to be sure to get all the mags I have coming in the future.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:38:14 AM EDT
[#2]
It was pretty common back during the AWB days when some pistols would come with "hi-cap" mags.
P.S. I hate that term, BTW. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:41:04 AM EDT
[#3]
It might be common with the pawn shop type, little hole in the wall places. I don't think it's common with most places.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:42:11 AM EDT
[#4]
i bought a new gen 4 glock 17 in 2012 from gun show , only came with 2 mags, i later found out it was supposed to come with 3.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:43:36 AM EDT
[#5]
I've had an entire case of Glock Gen4s come from a distributor missing one mag each...
Don't even get me started on AK cleaning rods... Neckbeards gonna neckbeard. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:44:44 AM EDT
[#6]
If your dealer does this, just put a nice review warning everyone else and never use them again. If they do that to their customers, who knows what else they would be willing to do.
Not much you can really do other than call them out on it. Also, be careful that it wasn't the selling dealer that helped themselves. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:44:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had an entire case of Glock Gen4s come from a distributor missing one mag each...
Don't even get me started on AK cleaning rods... Neckbeards going to neckbeard. a rifle company I worked for put it in all the paper work that the rifle shipped with three magazines and that if the rifle did not have three then someone stole them... |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:45:34 AM EDT
[#8]
A big local dealer used to do it at gun shows . He is also anti gun and wants all sales to go through an ffl
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:45:34 AM EDT
[#9]
Are you sure it was the transfer FFL. I know a lot of online dealers that pull extra mags to sell on the side. Sometimes Century Arms will include a pile of mags with rifles that aren't moving, the dealer with pull most of the extra mags, sell the rifle at the cost of the package, then profit off the mags.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:46:48 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was pretty common back during the AWB days when some pistols would come with "hi-cap" mags. P.S. I hate that term, BTW. I had that happen to me with a dealer in TN shortly after the AWB. Ordered a glock 21, and when it came in it had 10 round mags and they claimed that glock only ships them with 10 round mags. I suspected they were lying, so I called Glock and asked them, and they said that they only shipped 10-rd mags to states that had specific laws, and any glock 21 shipped to TN would have full-capacity mags. I told the store this, and they STILL claimed that glock only shipped guns with 10-round mags, so I told them to fuck off. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:47:44 AM EDT
[#11]
It certainly happened during the peak of the Sandy Hook bullshit self induced shortage...
I have not forgotten which FFLs tried to bone or succeeded to bone their customers, |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:48:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was pretty common back during the AWB days when some pistols would come with "hi-cap" mags. P.S. I hate that term, BTW. Lets start calling it "full-cap" when compared to reduced cap mags. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:49:37 AM EDT
[#13]
I had an FFL for years and was amazed at some of the package deals, free hardcase, free scope and or rings, extra mags, cleaning gear, all kinds of free swag.
I never kept anything and always passed it along to the buyer who most of the time was in shock. I have ran across many brick and mortar joints that kept everything except the actual gun. I have been in LGS's that even took the free lock that came with your gun and would put them in a little plastic bag on the rack for re-sale. 
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:50:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had that happen to me with a dealer in TN shortly after the AWB. Ordered a glock 21, and when it came in it had 10 round mags and they claimed that glock only ships them with 10 round mags. I suspected they were lying, so I called Glock and asked them, and they said that they only shipped 10-rd mags to states that had specific laws, and any glock 21 shipped to TN would have full-capacity mags. I told the store this, and they STILL claimed that glock only shipped guns with 10-round mags, so I told them to fuck off. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It was pretty common back during the AWB days when some pistols would come with "hi-cap" mags. P.S. I hate that term, BTW. I had that happen to me with a dealer in TN shortly after the AWB. Ordered a glock 21, and when it came in it had 10 round mags and they claimed that glock only ships them with 10 round mags. I suspected they were lying, so I called Glock and asked them, and they said that they only shipped 10-rd mags to states that had specific laws, and any glock 21 shipped to TN would have full-capacity mags. I told the store this, and they STILL claimed that glock only shipped guns with 10-round mags, so I told them to fuck off. That's not entirely true. The distributors will ship Glocks or any other gun with low cap mags to any dealer who orders them regardless of where they're located. We've had G17's come in with 10rd mags because someone ordered the wrong model. I'm not saying that's what happened in this instance, just that it could happen. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:51:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had that happen to me with a dealer in TN shortly after the AWB. Ordered a glock 21, and when it came in it had 10 round mags and they claimed that glock only ships them with 10 round mags. I suspected they were lying, so I called Glock and asked them, and they said that they only shipped 10-rd mags to states that had specific laws, and any glock 21 shipped to TN would have full-capacity mags. I told the store this, and they STILL claimed that glock only shipped guns with 10-round mags, so I told them to fuck off. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It was pretty common back during the AWB days when some pistols would come with "hi-cap" mags. P.S. I hate that term, BTW. I had that happen to me with a dealer in TN shortly after the AWB. Ordered a glock 21, and when it came in it had 10 round mags and they claimed that glock only ships them with 10 round mags. I suspected they were lying, so I called Glock and asked them, and they said that they only shipped 10-rd mags to states that had specific laws, and any glock 21 shipped to TN would have full-capacity mags. I told the store this, and they STILL claimed that glock only shipped guns with 10-round mags, so I told them to fuck off. LOL! |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:53:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had that happen to me with a dealer in TN shortly after the AWB. Ordered a glock 21, and when it came in it had 10 round mags and they claimed that glock only ships them with 10 round mags. I suspected they were lying, so I called Glock and asked them, and they said that they only shipped 10-rd mags to states that had specific laws, and any glock 21 shipped to TN would have full-capacity mags. I told the store this, and they STILL claimed that glock only shipped guns with 10-round mags, so I told them to fuck off. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It was pretty common back during the AWB days when some pistols would come with "hi-cap" mags. P.S. I hate that term, BTW. I had that happen to me with a dealer in TN shortly after the AWB. Ordered a glock 21, and when it came in it had 10 round mags and they claimed that glock only ships them with 10 round mags. I suspected they were lying, so I called Glock and asked them, and they said that they only shipped 10-rd mags to states that had specific laws, and any glock 21 shipped to TN would have full-capacity mags. I told the store this, and they STILL claimed that glock only shipped guns with 10-round mags, so I told them to fuck off. For future reference, these days: Red label = Shipped with mags having >10 round capacity. White label = Shipped with mags having <10 round capacity. Blue label = Shipped with whatever the standard capacity is for that model. Also, the label will say, specifically, the capacity of the magazines it shipped with. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:01:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
apparently it was common on Long Island for glock dealers to do that. Gen 4s and blue labels come with three but most think glocks only come with 2. LISC and American Outdoor had a bad rep for trying shit like that. LI does seem to have a higher than usual number of shitbag dealers. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:03:07 PM EDT
[#18]
I have never had a problem, but yeah I have heard that this happens all the time on Long Island
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:03:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LISC and American Outdoor had a bad rep for trying shit like that. LI does seem to have a higher than usual number of shitbag dealers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: apparently it was common on Long Island for glock dealers to do that. Gen 4s and blue labels come with three but most think glocks only come with 2. LI does seem to have a higher than usual number of shitbag dealers. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:05:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Has not happened to me, but I know people who it has happened to.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:06:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was pretty common back during the AWB days when some pistols would come with "hi-cap" mags. P.S. I hate that term, BTW. It was so common rhat one of the makers put a coupon in the box and the buyer had to mail it in with proof of purchase to get the 15 round mags. I think it was H-K. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:07:49 PM EDT
[#22]
So what I've learned from this thread, is that when my glock 19 gen 4 comes in (hopefully soon, stupid FDE) I should have 3 mags?
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:09:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Oldest FFL scam, pilfering extra mags and other accessories for separate sale.
Shitbird practice. Why do you guys think it's only on Long Island? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:11:16 PM EDT
[#24]
It's a shitbag thing to do but the customer needs to verify the accessories that come with the gun before buying it nib from a shop.
I have read of straight up thievery where mags are taken from guns ordered from online retailers like Buds. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:11:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do you guys think it's only on Long Island? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:12:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Never had that happen to me but I haven't bought a gun in a gun store since 1993.
Scratch that - I bought a 10/22 over-the-counter in 1995 I think. It only came with one magazine. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:18:54 PM EDT
[#27]
I ordered a Midwest Industries rail from a company (can't remember right now) and I noticed the the packaging was taped up when I opened it. Turns out they took the small rails that came with it. Didn't know it until a buddy pointed it out to me.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:19:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not entirely true. The distributors will ship Glocks or any other gun with low cap mags to any dealer who orders them regardless of where they're located. We've had G17's come in with 10rd mags because someone ordered the wrong model. I'm not saying that's what happened in this instance, just that it could happen. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It was pretty common back during the AWB days when some pistols would come with "hi-cap" mags. P.S. I hate that term, BTW. I had that happen to me with a dealer in TN shortly after the AWB. Ordered a glock 21, and when it came in it had 10 round mags and they claimed that glock only ships them with 10 round mags. I suspected they were lying, so I called Glock and asked them, and they said that they only shipped 10-rd mags to states that had specific laws, and any glock 21 shipped to TN would have full-capacity mags. I told the store this, and they STILL claimed that glock only shipped guns with 10-round mags, so I told them to fuck off. That's not entirely true. The distributors will ship Glocks or any other gun with low cap mags to any dealer who orders them regardless of where they're located. We've had G17's come in with 10rd mags because someone ordered the wrong model. I'm not saying that's what happened in this instance, just that it could happen. Right, and that's what Glock told me - that it's certainly possible the store ordered it specifically with 10-round mags instead of the full-capacity mags that Glock would gladly ship to TN. But, this was a LARGE store, that dealt in a lot of guns, and so it seemed a little unlikely that they would make such a mistake. But, to be fair, before telling them to fuck off, I asked them if they had perhaps accidentally ordered the glock 21 with 10-round mags instead of full-capacity ones. Their answer was that Glock ONLY shipped guns with 10-round mags .... but they had some nice (brand new) full-capacity glock mags available if I wanted to buy them.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:22:07 PM EDT
[#29]
There is a big ole lawsuit and now federal criminal charges against a dealer in KS with Glocks, don't think they took the mags but were doing something allegedly with blue label program.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:24:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LI does seem to have a higher than usual number of shitbag dealers. You got that right. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:24:22 PM EDT
[#31]
I got in a shouting match with a local dealer who insisted on opening my order before I was present....I told them to fuck off and took my business to a place that respected my wish.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:27:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a big ole lawsuit and now federal criminal charges against a dealer in KS with Glocks, don't think they took the mags but were doing something allegedly with blue label program. OMB Guns. Glock claims OMB was taking the cheaper priced blue label guns and printing new white labels for them. OMB would then make a bigger profit. OMB claims they only did this to fill vital orders, Glock knew it, and OMB reimbursed the money back. So Glock broke off the OMB distributorship and is suing OMB. OMB is also under Fed charges of bribing some Glock officials to get the best inventory. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:29:07 PM EDT
[#33]
A dealer has to be in some dire financial straights, to pull a chickenshit move like that.
You'd think, anyway. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:30:31 PM EDT
[#34]
My FFL guy never opens my firearm box before I get there, this should be the norm. I've heard of dealers replacing P-Mags with Pro Mags, complete upper receivers on ARs, you name it.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:31:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A dealer has to be in some dire financial straights, to pull a chickenshit move like that. You'd think, anyway. Or they're just super cheap and think they can get away with it. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:31:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A dealer has to be in some dire financial straights, to pull a chickenshit move like that. You'd think, anyway. From what I understand, the father started OMB and grew it to a decent sized business. When he died the two boys got into a fight and split the company. There is an OMB and another OMB in a town not far away. We were set up as blue label dealers with the OMB that is in trouble, and I was less than impressed with them. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:33:03 PM EDT
[#37]
I guess the internets would cut down on that since a customer most likely would do some research and find out what should be included. Of course that doesn't really stop much if the LGS insists on selling it short anyways. Something like "we sell below msrp and if you want that stuff it'll run you extra".
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:33:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My FFL guy never opens my firearm box before I get there, this should be the norm. I've heard of dealers replacing P-Mags with Pro Mags, complete upper receivers on ARs, you name it. An FFL has one day to log in the firearm when they receive it. Lots of people aren't there to pick up their gun within 1 day. They can't log in a gun without opening up the box. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:37:32 PM EDT
[#39]
I'm pretty sure Glock sent out a letter about a year ago talking about this exact situation. I'll see if i can find it.
Found it... 
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:37:46 PM EDT
[#40]
I bought a colt ar from a large Internet outfit in my area. When I got home, I noticed the swag bag had been cut open and everything except the manual, one qd ring and one mag had been removed. Oddly enough it had a QD ring in the bag and the one I bought had plastic handguards and a regular m4 stock without a qd cup. I figured they had a pile of bags and they accidentally put a 6940 bag in my box after they were finished pilfering.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:39:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An FFL has one day to log in the firearm when they receive it. Lots of people aren't there to pick up their gun within 1 day. They can't log in a gun without opening up the box. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My FFL guy never opens my firearm box before I get there, this should be the norm. I've heard of dealers replacing P-Mags with Pro Mags, complete upper receivers on ARs, you name it. An FFL has one day to log in the firearm when they receive it. Lots of people aren't there to pick up their gun within 1 day. They can't log in a gun without opening up the box. Everything they need to know is right on the box or so I thought, most of the time. Not saying what you are saying is not true, I've always been able to pick up my guns same day so I guess I wouldn't know. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:40:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everything they need to know is right on the box or so I thought, most of the time. Not saying what you are saying is not true, I've always been able to pick up my guns same day so I guess I wouldn't know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My FFL guy never opens my firearm box before I get there, this should be the norm. I've heard of dealers replacing P-Mags with Pro Mags, complete upper receivers on ARs, you name it. An FFL has one day to log in the firearm when they receive it. Lots of people aren't there to pick up their gun within 1 day. They can't log in a gun without opening up the box. Everything they need to know is right on the box or so I thought, most of the time. Not saying what you are saying is not true, I've always been able to pick up my guns same day so I guess I wouldn't know. I'm pretty sure they need a serial number for the log book |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:42:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm pretty sure they need a serial number for the log book Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My FFL guy never opens my firearm box before I get there, this should be the norm. I've heard of dealers replacing P-Mags with Pro Mags, complete upper receivers on ARs, you name it. An FFL has one day to log in the firearm when they receive it. Lots of people aren't there to pick up their gun within 1 day. They can't log in a gun without opening up the box. Everything they need to know is right on the box or so I thought, most of the time. Not saying what you are saying is not true, I've always been able to pick up my guns same day so I guess I wouldn't know. I'm pretty sure they need a serial number for the log book And even if the serial number is printed on a label on the outside, it would be irresponsible to not verify that the serial number on the gun matches the serial number on the box/label. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:45:27 PM EDT
[#44]
It's a very common practice with distributors. I've never seen a LGS do it unless a used gun came in and someone was stupid enough to include a bunch of extra mags. I don't blame a LGS at all for selling the extras on the side.
I remember when the Romanian PSLs came out (packaged with four mags/pouch) many distributors were pulling two and even three mags to sell on the side because the ones that came with the rifles were the only ones available at the time. I remember those mags selling for $50.00+ each. The way they look at it is they bought the gun (it's theirs) so as long as a gun is advertised with one mag there is not shit a buyer can do about it other than buy elsewhere. If the manufacturer does not care then they are in the clear especially if they are not a stocking dealer. Do your research before to buy. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:47:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Yes.
Very common. I had a gun dealer up north of Seattle that I bought a pistol from that took the second magazine. I called him on it and he denied it. I wrote the manufacturer who confirmed that my pistol was shipped with two magazines. I walked in to the dealer, gave him a copy of the letter and took my $5000-$15000 worth of business a year elsewhere. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:48:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a very common practice with distributors. I've never seen a LGS do it unless a used gun came in and someone was stupid enough to include a bunch of extra mags. I don't blame a LGS at all for selling the extras on the side. I remember when the Romanian PSLs came out (packaged with four mags/pouch) many distributors were pulling two and even three mags to sell on the side because the ones that came with the rifles were the only ones available at the time. I remember those mags selling for $50.00+ each. The way they look at it is they bought the gun (it's theirs) so as long as a gun is advertised with one mag there is not shit a buyer can do about it other than buy elsewhere. If the manufacturer does not care then they are in the clear especially if they are not a stocking dealer. Do your research before to buy. I agree completely if it's a gun that the store is selling out of their own inventory. However, when it's a gun you ORDER, it's basically theft, in my opinion.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:48:11 PM EDT
[#47]
I gave a gun to a friend. the gun was stored at my dealer (was) friends store while I was out of the country. My friend picked up the gun not knowing exactly what he was getting and the dealer knew he did not know and lo and behold my parker hale M82 complete with all accessories had transformed in at a 243 sporter build on a mauser receiver. I did not find out that this had happened until 4 years later and by that time said dealer friend was long gone, moved to Indonesia or some other sewer (Dave if you read this F U )
another time I sent a gun to myself that I had picked up on vacation. I packed it and knew what was in it.the dealer in this case had opened the package and taken the extras out and resealed the box. he tried to tell me that it was never opened and that is how he got it. he got all bent out of shape when I asked hom how he got the serial number to log in into his book. The package had been at the shop for 9 days. but mysteriously he found the missing contents in the back room. "must have fallen out" when he was reading the serial number had a kitchen table dealer (who was the RRA dealer in town) try and do a switch on me. I had RRA do a custom build back when they were 2 guys in a garage. The gun arrives at dealers and I go to collect it and its not what I ordered. dealer says thats what they sent so I pulls out the phone and call RRA and they say that my custom build and and A2 and a carbine were shipped to the dealer on the same day. Next thing my gun mysteriously appears from the hall closet. I told a few people about the scam attempt and they all said that he has been that way since he was a boy |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:48:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everything they need to know is right on the box or so I thought, most of the time. Not saying what you are saying is not true, I've always been able to pick up my guns same day so I guess I wouldn't know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My FFL guy never opens my firearm box before I get there, this should be the norm. I've heard of dealers replacing P-Mags with Pro Mags, complete upper receivers on ARs, you name it. An FFL has one day to log in the firearm when they receive it. Lots of people aren't there to pick up their gun within 1 day. They can't log in a gun without opening up the box. Everything they need to know is right on the box or so I thought, most of the time. Not saying what you are saying is not true, I've always been able to pick up my guns same day so I guess I wouldn't know. They have to inspect the actual firearm. If the label isn't what's actually in the box they're in hot water with the ATF. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:50:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Para ORD was shipping coupons for the spare mag with the pistols, you had to furnish a retail sales slip to redeem it.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:50:17 PM EDT
[#50]
A lot of places do it or try to.
Some of the worst are the big box stores - Cabela's, Gander, etc. Counter guys will argue strenuously and they don't care if you show them the specs. |
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