User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 5:42:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The gun you have beats one you don't - especially for home defense. Using that heaping helping of failogic, one could argue a Judge is better for home defense. But I gotz it, so it's da bestest!!!!!!!#@!@!@! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 5:45:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just because it fires that many pellets doesn't mean that they are traveling at the same velocity with the same energy and potential for devastation as quality 5.56 loadings. I know it's an exaggeration, but 1 round of birdshot will fire 10 mags worth of rounds into a bad guy. It still doesn't mean it will effectively stop him (which it obviously wont). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Again, while I wouldn't fault anyone for using an AR, I just don't get why a forum that debates about most effective bullet weights and calibers is so dismissive of a cheap, stupidly simple platform that can fire an entire AR mag's worth of rounds in two pulls of the trigger. Just because it fires that many pellets doesn't mean that they are traveling at the same velocity with the same energy and potential for devastation as quality 5.56 loadings. I know it's an exaggeration, but 1 round of birdshot will fire 10 mags worth of rounds into a bad guy. It still doesn't mean it will effectively stop him (which it obviously wont). #1 & larger at 1000+ fps is enough to be effective - for every pellet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 5:48:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok. You tag the guy. He goes down screaming. His heretofore unseen buddies, launch a fusilade at you. You dive behind cover. You are now in a gunfight against 1) Unknown number of assailants 2) unknown number and type of weapons 3) indeterminate time until help arrives, if you managed to call 911 or neighbors hear the commotion. You have at most 7 rounds left without a reload. What is your next move? You might want to consider cutting back on the video games! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 5:54:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In this thread, we once again learn that training mitigates physical laws,* a round, .33 caliber ball at ~1200 FPS is equal to a fragmenting 5.56 projectile at ~2900 FPS, and preparing for the "best case scenario" home invasion is the way to go. *Only when applied to a shotgun, nobody has ever trained to any sort of proficiency with an AR15. 9 to 12 .33 caliber vs. 1, count 'em, 1 5.56. Math much? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 6:04:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanx for all the new and improved information, I will keep the Shot gun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 6:54:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can also do more things with them. You can hunt. Shoot trap and skeet. Predator control in close proximity to structure or livestock. Those things are harder to do with a carbine. You aren't going to hunt goose, pheasant, quail with an ar in any caliber. You *CAN* hunt turkey, deer, even bear with a shotgun. You cannot shoot skeet or trap with an AR-15. You can with a shotgun. The fact that a shotgun has general uses means you just might actually have one. The gun you have beats one you don't - especially for home defense. I thought we already handled this one?? Turkey: 
Deer: 
TRAP or SKEET with AR-15 Video Predators: 
The AR beats the shotgun in the field just like it does at home. You should actually read the thread and I would not have to keep this up.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 7:06:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Brooooo don't you know that you're supposed to throw a pillow at an intruder to stun him and then rush him with your pencil stabbing him in the eyes and nuts? Cmon....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 7:08:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Brooooo don't you know that you're supposed to throw a pillow at an intruder to stun him and then rush him with your pencil stabbing him in the eyes and nuts? Cmon.... Well if you write a lot and are used to using the pencil its whats best for you. Whatever you are most comfortable with is automatically the best for home defense.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 7:19:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well if you write a lot and are used to using the pencil its whats best for you. Whatever you are most comfortable with is automatically the best for home defense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Brooooo don't you know that you're supposed to throw a pillow at an intruder to stun him and then rush him with your pencil stabbing him in the eyes and nuts? Cmon.... Well if you write a lot and are used to using the pencil its whats best for you. Whatever you are most comfortable with is automatically the best for home defense. What if im comfortable with my tv? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 7:23:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought we already handled this one?? Turkey: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/Turkeys%202014/DSC01114_zpsd43c8627.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Turkeys%202014/DSC01114_zpsd43c8627.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/Turkeys%202014/DSC01081_zpsb4a933c1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Turkeys%202014/DSC01081_zpsb4a933c1.jpg</a> Deer: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2013%20WT%20Hunt/DSC00708_zps34be93c3.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2013%20WT%20Hunt/DSC00708_zps34be93c3.jpg</a> TRAP or SKEET with AR-15 Video Predators: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/JohnBobcat.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/JohnBobcat.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/DSC00527.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/DSC00527.jpg</a> The AR beats the shotgun in the field just like it does at home. You should actually read the thread and I would not have to keep this up.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You can also do more things with them. You can hunt. Shoot trap and skeet. Predator control in close proximity to structure or livestock. Those things are harder to do with a carbine. You aren't going to hunt goose, pheasant, quail with an ar in any caliber. You *CAN* hunt turkey, deer, even bear with a shotgun. You cannot shoot skeet or trap with an AR-15. You can with a shotgun. The fact that a shotgun has general uses means you just might actually have one. The gun you have beats one you don't - especially for home defense. I thought we already handled this one?? Turkey: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/Turkeys%202014/DSC01114_zpsd43c8627.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Turkeys%202014/DSC01114_zpsd43c8627.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/Turkeys%202014/DSC01081_zpsb4a933c1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Turkeys%202014/DSC01081_zpsb4a933c1.jpg</a> Deer: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2013%20WT%20Hunt/DSC00708_zps34be93c3.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2013%20WT%20Hunt/DSC00708_zps34be93c3.jpg</a> TRAP or SKEET with AR-15 Video Predators: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/JohnBobcat.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/JohnBobcat.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/DSC00527.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/DSC00527.jpg</a> The AR beats the shotgun in the field just like it does at home. You should actually read the thread and I would not have to keep this up.
How well does your AR work on: duck geese pheasant quail dove where shotgun is mandated on the skeet range on the trap range. In contrast, shotgun has been used successfully and legally on everything youpictured. Perhaps you should take a course in logic instead of repeating your derpage. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 7:35:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How well does your AR work on: duck geese pheasant quail dove where shotgun is mandated on the skeet range on the trap range. In contrast, shotgun has been used successfully and legally on everything youpictured. Perhaps you should take a course in logic instead of repeating your derpage. How often does your home get invaded by birds and flying clay disk? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 7:38:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How well does your AR work on: duck geese pheasant quail dove where shotgun is mandated on the skeet range on the trap range. In contrast, shotgun has been used successfully and legally on everything youpictured. Perhaps you should take a course in logic instead of repeating your derpage. THE LAW CREATES REALITY!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 7:45:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How well does your AR work on: duck geese pheasant quail dove where shotgun is mandated on the skeet range on the trap range. In contrast, shotgun has been used successfully and legally on everything youpictured. Perhaps you should take a course in logic instead of repeating your derpage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can also do more things with them. You can hunt. Shoot trap and skeet. Predator control in close proximity to structure or livestock. Those things are harder to do with a carbine. You aren't going to hunt goose, pheasant, quail with an ar in any caliber. You *CAN* hunt turkey, deer, even bear with a shotgun. You cannot shoot skeet or trap with an AR-15. You can with a shotgun. The fact that a shotgun has general uses means you just might actually have one. The gun you have beats one you don't - especially for home defense. I thought we already handled this one?? Turkey: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/Turkeys%202014/DSC01114_zpsd43c8627.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Turkeys%202014/DSC01114_zpsd43c8627.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/Turkeys%202014/DSC01081_zpsb4a933c1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Turkeys%202014/DSC01081_zpsb4a933c1.jpg</a> Deer: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2013%20WT%20Hunt/DSC00708_zps34be93c3.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2013%20WT%20Hunt/DSC00708_zps34be93c3.jpg</a> TRAP or SKEET with AR-15 Video Predators: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/JohnBobcat.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/JohnBobcat.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/DSC00527.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/DSC00527.jpg</a> The AR beats the shotgun in the field just like it does at home. You should actually read the thread and I would not have to keep this up.
How well does your AR work on: duck geese pheasant quail dove where shotgun is mandated on the skeet range on the trap range. In contrast, shotgun has been used successfully and legally on everything youpictured. Perhaps you should take a course in logic instead of repeating your derpage. Ducks, geese, pheasants,quail and doves hardly equate to home invaders. A LOGICAL individual might ever ascertain that a firearm suitable for such small critters is of limited value against determined hostiles bent on attacking you in your home. Here is your sign.
There is no shotgun mandate in my home, but then again I live in a free state. Another Sign.
I thought I handled the trap and skeet stuff with the above reference video. This sign is for you.
Why don't you hang a few pictures of your success in the field with the might shotty. Or are you just guessin.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 7:47:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Home Defense at 500yds? I guess if you live in Kansas... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I like to see what could compete against a 12 gauge, 330 grain slug traveling at a velocity of 1900 fps with an Energy load of 2600 foot pounds.  Home Defense at 500yds? I guess if you live in Kansas... |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 7:55:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If anyone is interested in learning: What Is the Best Weapon for Home Defense, A Serious Discussion I'll go with this guy.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 12:22:27 AM EDT
[#16]
The FBI did some very extensive ammo testing in ballistic gel.
They consider 12" penetration to be the minimum requirement. HP handgun rounds in 9mm and .40 met the minimum penetration requirement. Every size of buckshot round also met the minimum penetration requirement. They found out that different .223 rounds did not have adequate penetration in ballistic gel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 12:40:19 AM EDT
[#17]
If all I had was a shotgun then I would use slugs to minimize the flyers.
Carbine all day though.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 12:47:55 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The FBI did some very extensive ammo testing in ballistic gel. They consider 12" penetration to be the minimum requirement. HP handgun rounds in 9mm and .40 met the minimum penetration requirement. Every size of buckshot round also met the minimum penetration requirement. They found out that different .223 rounds did not have adequate penetration in ballistic gel.  Ohhhh you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 2:23:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FBI did some very extensive ammo testing in ballistic gel. They consider 12" penetration to be the minimum requirement. HP handgun rounds in 9mm and .40 met the minimum penetration requirement. Every size of buckshot round also met the minimum penetration requirement. They found out that different .223 rounds did not have adequate penetration in ballistic gel. Keep in mind we are on an AR15 web site, no matter what factual evidence you produce to the contrary the Fanboys are going to say you are wrong. But we know you are correct. Asking on an AR15 Website what is better an AR15 or a Shotgun is like going on a Microsoft Computer and asking " Microsoft Windows or Apple OSX " the Fanboys will alway outnumber the intelligent people who think logically. But it is fun watching the Fanboys spin, twist, and end up getting their panties in a bunch!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 4:14:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FBI did some very extensive ammo testing in ballistic gel. They consider 12" penetration to be the minimum requirement. HP handgun rounds in 9mm and .40 met the minimum penetration requirement. Every size of buckshot round also met the minimum penetration requirement. They found out that different .223 rounds did not have adequate penetration in ballistic gel. Some 12 gauge loadings will barely penetrate a few inches. What's your point again? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 4:22:46 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You might want to consider cutting back on the video games!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok. You tag the guy. He goes down screaming. His heretofore unseen buddies, launch a fusilade at you. You dive behind cover. You are now in a gunfight against 1) Unknown number of assailants 2) unknown number and type of weapons 3) indeterminate time until help arrives, if you managed to call 911 or neighbors hear the commotion. You have at most 7 rounds left without a reload. What is your next move? You might want to consider cutting back on the video games!
While not an actual gunfight, its not hard to imagine these scumbags could acquire guns. My point is this, are you prepping for best case or worse case? 4 arrested in home invasion |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 4:25:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How well does your AR work on: duck geese pheasant quail dove where shotgun is mandated on the skeet range on the trap range. In contrast, shotgun has been used successfully and legally on everything youpictured. Perhaps you should take a course in logic instead of repeating your derpage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can also do more things with them. You can hunt. Shoot trap and skeet. Predator control in close proximity to structure or livestock. Those things are harder to do with a carbine. You aren't going to hunt goose, pheasant, quail with an ar in any caliber. You *CAN* hunt turkey, deer, even bear with a shotgun. You cannot shoot skeet or trap with an AR-15. You can with a shotgun. The fact that a shotgun has general uses means you just might actually have one. The gun you have beats one you don't - especially for home defense. I thought we already handled this one?? Turkey: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/Turkeys%202014/DSC01114_zpsd43c8627.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Turkeys%202014/DSC01114_zpsd43c8627.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/Turkeys%202014/DSC01081_zpsb4a933c1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Turkeys%202014/DSC01081_zpsb4a933c1.jpg</a> Deer: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2013%20WT%20Hunt/DSC00708_zps34be93c3.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2013%20WT%20Hunt/DSC00708_zps34be93c3.jpg</a> TRAP or SKEET with AR-15 Video Predators: <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/JohnBobcat.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/JohnBobcat.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/DSC00527.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/DSC00527.jpg</a> The AR beats the shotgun in the field just like it does at home. You should actually read the thread and I would not have to keep this up.
How well does your AR work on: duck geese pheasant quail dove where shotgun is mandated on the skeet range on the trap range. In contrast, shotgun has been used successfully and legally on everything youpictured. Perhaps you should take a course in logic instead of repeating your derpage. An AR would work fine on everything you listed. You don't have to wait until they're flying to shoot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 4:56:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok. You tag the guy. He goes down screaming. His heretofore unseen buddies, launch a fusilade at you. You dive behind cover. You are now in a gunfight against 1) Unknown number of assailants 2) unknown number and type of weapons 3) indeterminate time until help arrives, if you managed to call 911 or neighbors hear the commotion. You have at most 7 rounds left without a reload. What is your next move? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: The shotgun does not win on every point and inside the house you are not going to get a big spread but a hole half the size of your fist. Which would you rather put in a bad guy..... A 5.56mm hole, or a hole half the size of your fist? I have also said on this site that if I had one round only make it 12GA 00 buck because I have seen the devastation on the human body first hand. That being said my carbine is lighter, more maneuverable, higher rate of fire and four times the magazine capacity with faster reloads. If I was given a shotgun only for home defense I would not feel underguned because I know how to run one and I know what it will do to another human being. Given my choice I will take an M4 type carbine because I can run it in my sleep and out of the two it is the better choice but a shotgun is not a wrong choice. You pull the trigger once, you launch one 5.56mm projectile. I pull the trigger once, I launch fifteen 8.38mm projectiles. Let's do a little math ...... Semi-Auto Carbine with 30 round magazine ...... 30 trigger pulls - Thirty (30) 5.56mm projectiles down range 12 Ga Pump Shotgun 3" Chamber 00 Buck ...... 5 trigger pulls - Seventy Five (75) 8.38mm projectiles down range ( 5 shot ) With an extended 8 shot tube it would be 120 Bring in a semi-auto shotgun and it gets even more fun! Now if the bad guy is running away from me and is 150 meters away, the rifle would be better. But let's be honest, if he is 150 meters from you and running away ..... he isn't much of a threat, now is he? For home defense the shotgun wins. For defending your neighbors house maybe that carbine. It's all about the right tool for the job. In the house ...... 870/12ga and 1911/.45 ACP Ok. You tag the guy. He goes down screaming. His heretofore unseen buddies, launch a fusilade at you. You dive behind cover. You are now in a gunfight against 1) Unknown number of assailants 2) unknown number and type of weapons 3) indeterminate time until help arrives, if you managed to call 911 or neighbors hear the commotion. You have at most 7 rounds left without a reload. What is your next move? dude. 672 square feet. SIX HUNDRED SEVENTY TWO SQUARE FEET. I have a grand total of 5 light fixtures inside my house. I have a clear line of sight down the hall from the bedroom pas the bathroom, past the other bedroom and to the kitchen and living room. there is no place for a squad of ISIS terrorists to hide. the only people would assault my house with rifles armor and helmets would be the cops. Look I know you want to stroke it thinking that you're gonna walter mitty a band of narco terrorists in your own home but I'm going to throw out a real situation at you I'll get your answer then I'm going to tell you the 2 possible outcomes based on your answer. You're sitting at home watching tv and the cat starts going nuts. you look out the window and some guy is trying to get into your home via one of the windows. You go to the nearest door which is 10 feet from the window and open it and confront the guy. what gun do you take with you? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 4:59:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but I cheat like a motherfucker. Winchester M12 slamfire FTW. This posts video breakdown.... 1st shot to second shot, normal, no slamfire.. .75 seconds, glacially slow. Second shot to third "fuck it I'll slamfire" .5 seconds. the the beast within takes over and I'm like FUCK THESE PINS 3-4 is .25. Slugs at about 15-17 meters. can't remember the exact distance.  http://youtu.be/K8niTkdbVi4?list=UUkMuxQan8o1NgG5tn-7JDzg
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Think so? What are your split times on a rifle? Mine on my pump gun are .25. I'm no math wizz, but wouldn't that mean you have to have .05 splits to fire 5 times to my once? Not trying to be argumentative, but can you actually hit things that fast with a pump gun? Because that's fucking blistering.... Like world-class fast. Winchester M12 slamfire FTW. This posts video breakdown.... 1st shot to second shot, normal, no slamfire.. .75 seconds, glacially slow. Second shot to third "fuck it I'll slamfire" .5 seconds. the the beast within takes over and I'm like FUCK THESE PINS 3-4 is .25. Slugs at about 15-17 meters. can't remember the exact distance. http://youtu.be/K8niTkdbVi4?list=UUkMuxQan8o1NgG5tn-7JDzg
nice. I had a chicom copy of the winchester 97 you could slam fire it too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 4:59:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keep in mind we are on an AR15 web site, no matter what factual evidence you produce to the contrary the Fanboys are going to say you are wrong. But we know you are correct. Asking on an AR15 Website what is better an AR15 or a Shotgun is like going on a Microsoft Computer and asking " Microsoft Windows or Apple OSX " the Fanboys will alway outnumber the intelligent people who think logically. But it is fun watching the Fanboys spin, twist, and end up getting their panties in a bunch! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The FBI did some very extensive ammo testing in ballistic gel. They consider 12" penetration to be the minimum requirement. HP handgun rounds in 9mm and .40 met the minimum penetration requirement. Every size of buckshot round also met the minimum penetration requirement. They found out that different .223 rounds did not have adequate penetration in ballistic gel. Keep in mind we are on an AR15 web site, no matter what factual evidence you produce to the contrary the Fanboys are going to say you are wrong. But we know you are correct. Asking on an AR15 Website what is better an AR15 or a Shotgun is like going on a Microsoft Computer and asking " Microsoft Windows or Apple OSX " the Fanboys will alway outnumber the intelligent people who think logically. But it is fun watching the Fanboys spin, twist, and end up getting their panties in a bunch! You're such a nice boy. Now go outside and play, and maybe when the ice cream man comes we'll give you money. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:07:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FBI did some very extensive ammo testing in ballistic gel. They consider 12" penetration to be the minimum requirement. HP handgun rounds in 9mm and .40 met the minimum penetration requirement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FBI did some very extensive ammo testing in ballistic gel. They consider 12" penetration to be the minimum requirement. HP handgun rounds in 9mm and .40 met the minimum penetration requirement. Some did, and some didn't. Every size of buckshot round also met the minimum penetration requirement. That is false. #4 buckshot will often fail to meet the standard. If you use a shotgun, use buckshot larger than #4 buck. They found out that different .223 rounds did not have adequate penetration in ballistic gel.
Some failed, and some did just fine. We know which ones failed, so we do not use them, just like the handgun rounds. Your argument means nothing. Sorry. Handgun rounds from the approved list and shotgun shells from the approved list, CAN work just fine. But a rifle round is MUCH more effective than any pistol round, and a rifle allows better control if there are multiple targets than a shotgun. Use whatever you prefer, but make your decision based on FACTS, not "feelings". |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:07:28 AM EDT
[#27]
Poll fail.
No phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range? In before: "Hey, just what ya see, pal." |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:21:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote Historydude. 672 square feet. SIX HUNDRED SEVENTY TWO SQUARE FEET. I have a grand total of 5 light fixtures inside my house. I have a clear line of sight down the hall from the bedroom pas the bathroom, past the other bedroom and to the kitchen and living room. there is no place for a squad of ISIS terrorists to hide. the only people would assault my house with rifles armor and helmets would be the cops.
Look I know you want to stroke it thinking that you're gonna walter mitty a band of narco terrorists in your own home but I'm going to throw out a real situation at you I'll get your answer then I'm going to tell you the 2 possible outcomes based on your answer. You're sitting at home watching tv and the cat starts going nuts. you look out the window and some guy is trying to get into your home via one of the windows. You go to the nearest door which is 10 feet from the window and open it and confront the guy. what gun do you take with you? So bad guys always lone wolf it and never have any firearms when the do a home invasion? I'm not talking narco terrorist or ISIS, I'm talking yutes looking for meth money and armed with Hi Points. If I see somebody breaking in and I have time, I'm going for the AR or AK, if there is not enough time, I'll grab whichever gun that is in whichever room. That may be a 1911, double stack 9 or, yes, even a shotgun. Most people don't live in a 700 square foot house, I don't. And my cat died several months ago. But whatev dude. Its your life. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:27:02 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some did, and some didn't. That is false. #4 buckshot will often fail to meet the standard. If you use a shotgun, use buckshot larger than #4 buck. Some failed, and some did just fine. We know which ones failed, so we do not use them, just like the handgun rounds. Your argument means nothing. Sorry. Handgun rounds from the approved list and shotgun shells from the approved list, CAN work just fine. But a rifle round is MUCH more effective than any pistol round, and a rifle allows better control if there are multiple targets than a shotgun. Use whatever you prefer, but make your decision based on FACTS, not "feelings". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The FBI did some very extensive ammo testing in ballistic gel. They consider 12" penetration to be the minimum requirement. HP handgun rounds in 9mm and .40 met the minimum penetration requirement. Some did, and some didn't. Every size of buckshot round also met the minimum penetration requirement. That is false. #4 buckshot will often fail to meet the standard. If you use a shotgun, use buckshot larger than #4 buck. They found out that different .223 rounds did not have adequate penetration in ballistic gel.
Some failed, and some did just fine. We know which ones failed, so we do not use them, just like the handgun rounds. Your argument means nothing. Sorry. Handgun rounds from the approved list and shotgun shells from the approved list, CAN work just fine. But a rifle round is MUCH more effective than any pistol round, and a rifle allows better control if there are multiple targets than a shotgun. Use whatever you prefer, but make your decision based on FACTS, not "feelings". Sorry but in the FBI tests even BB rounds which are smaller than #4 buck also penetrated bare gel the minimum 12". |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:32:59 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Biden is a retard.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:33:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry but in the FBI tests even BB rounds which are smaller than #4 buck also penetrated bare gel the minimum 12". -- citation needed |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:33:21 AM EDT
[#32]
IIRC, the FBI chose the WIN PDX round for their .223 weapons. Despite the fact that it doesn't meet their own 12" min penetration in bare gel.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:36:12 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How often does your home get invaded by birds and flying clay disk? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How well does your AR work on: duck geese pheasant quail dove where shotgun is mandated on the skeet range on the trap range. In contrast, shotgun has been used successfully and legally on everything youpictured. Perhaps you should take a course in logic instead of repeating your derpage. How often does your home get invaded by birds and flying clay disk? Better than you are at sticking to the point my response referred to, apparently .... |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:46:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ducks, geese, pheasants,quail and doves hardly equate to home invaders. A LOGICAL individual might ever ascertain that a firearm suitable for such small critters is of limited value against determined hostiles bent on attacking you in your home. Here is your sign. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ducks, geese, pheasants,quail and doves hardly equate to home invaders. A LOGICAL individual might ever ascertain that a firearm suitable for such small critters is of limited value against determined hostiles bent on attacking you in your home. Here is your sign. Perhaps you missed the bunnies and coyotes pictured taken with an AR - they don't equate to home invaders either. The POINT, which you seem utterly unable to grasp, or admit, is that the shot gun is versatile enough to be used for those, AND home defense. Just like ARs can be used for coyote or rabbit huntign, and home defense. One can satisfy their home defense needs with a firearm also suited for their particular choice of game hunting or hobby shooting. Speaking of LOGICAL indivisuals, if you ever find one, perhaps he can give you some lessons ... 
That doesn't make EITHER choice bad - it makes them BOTH GOOD. There is no shotgun mandate in my home, but then again I live in a free state. Another Sign. That is not the case for everyone, is it? I thought I handled the trap and skeet stuff with the above reference video. This sign is for you. Show up at a trap or skeet range and try to compete with your 5.56 AR. See what kind of sign they give you. .Why don't you hang a few pictures of your success in the field with the might shotty.
Or are you just guessin. I've eaten goose, duck, pheasant and ribbit killed by me with my shotgun. The same shotgun I load with buckshot and slug for home defense. I don't have $800 for an AR plus 4-5 hundred for ammo and accessories right now, so I soldier on with my shotgun, my Garand, and my 1911s. Strangely, I don't feel under-gunned or ill-prepared. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:58:29 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some 12 gauge loadings will barely penetrate a few inches. What's your point again? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The FBI did some very extensive ammo testing in ballistic gel. They consider 12" penetration to be the minimum requirement. HP handgun rounds in 9mm and .40 met the minimum penetration requirement. Every size of buckshot round also met the minimum penetration requirement. They found out that different .223 rounds did not have adequate penetration in ballistic gel. Some 12 gauge loadings will barely penetrate a few inches. What's your point again? Are those loads intended for anti-personnel use? Or are they loads for skeet and game? So what was your point, again? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:58:49 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps you missed the bunnies and coyotes pictured taken with an AR - they don't equate to home invaders either. The POINT, which you seem utterly unable to grasp, or admit, is that the shot gun is versatile enough to be used for those, AND home defense. Just like ARs can be used for coyote or rabbit huntign, and home defense. One can satisfy their home defense needs with a firearm also suited for their particular choice of game hunting or hobby shooting. Speaking of LOGICAL indivisuals, if you ever find one, perhaps he can give you some lessons ...
That doesn't make EITHER choice bad - it makes them BOTH GOOD. That is not the case for everyone, is it? Show up at a trap or skeet range and try to compete with your 5.56 AR. See what kind of sign they give you. I've eaten goose, duck, pheasant and ribbit killed by me with my shotgun. The same shotgun I load with buckshot and slug for home defense. I don't have $800 for an AR plus 4-5 hundred for ammo and accessories right now, so I soldier on with my shotgun, my Garand, and my 1911s. Strangely, I don't feel under-gunned or ill-prepared. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ducks, geese, pheasants,quail and doves hardly equate to home invaders. A LOGICAL individual might ever ascertain that a firearm suitable for such small critters is of limited value against determined hostiles bent on attacking you in your home. Here is your sign. Perhaps you missed the bunnies and coyotes pictured taken with an AR - they don't equate to home invaders either. The POINT, which you seem utterly unable to grasp, or admit, is that the shot gun is versatile enough to be used for those, AND home defense. Just like ARs can be used for coyote or rabbit huntign, and home defense. One can satisfy their home defense needs with a firearm also suited for their particular choice of game hunting or hobby shooting. Speaking of LOGICAL indivisuals, if you ever find one, perhaps he can give you some lessons ...
That doesn't make EITHER choice bad - it makes them BOTH GOOD. There is no shotgun mandate in my home, but then again I live in a free state. Another Sign. That is not the case for everyone, is it? I thought I handled the trap and skeet stuff with the above reference video. This sign is for you. Show up at a trap or skeet range and try to compete with your 5.56 AR. See what kind of sign they give you. .Why don't you hang a few pictures of your success in the field with the might shotty.
Or are you just guessin. I've eaten goose, duck, pheasant and ribbit killed by me with my shotgun. The same shotgun I load with buckshot and slug for home defense. I don't have $800 for an AR plus 4-5 hundred for ammo and accessories right now, so I soldier on with my shotgun, my Garand, and my 1911s. Strangely, I don't feel under-gunned or ill-prepared. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. You got what got. Use it the best you can. If you had an AR and all the goodies, would you look at things differently? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 6:16:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. You got what got. Use it the best you can. If you had an AR and all the goodies, would you look at things differently? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:I've eaten goose, duck, pheasant and ribbit killed by me with my shotgun. The same shotgun I load with buckshot and slug for home defense. I don't have $800 for an AR plus 4-5 hundred for ammo and accessories right now, so I soldier on with my shotgun, my Garand, and my 1911s. Strangely, I don't feel under-gunned or ill-prepared. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. You got what got. Use it the best you can. If you had an AR and all the goodies, would you look at things differently? Probably not. I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. Scoff at the shotgun if you want - it has an intimidation factor that the carbine doesn't. It has a means to potentially end the encounter that the carbine doesn't. Neither choice is bad. EIther choice can get the job done. In some situations, the carbine is better. Those situations principally involve simultaneous multiple attackers. In some situations, the shotgun is better. More ammo verstility, more punch per trigger pull at close range, the ability to slamfire or fire semi-auto in some weapons choices, two completely independent chambers, barrels, rounds, and ignition systems in others. If you have either, they can be potent self-defense weapons with proper ammo selection. The shotgun has a lower cost-to-enter factor. It is also more likely to already be possed in the home, which means it is more likely to be available without spending extra money. Athough that is changing slightly, and that is a good thing. The shotgun has a wider range of legal availability. The carbine fires 1 very potent projectile per trigger pull. Teh shotgun fires one massive, extremely potent projectile per ttrigger pull (see: winchester segmenting slug video) or multiple, slightly less effective than the carbine, projectiles. But guess what? We don't need to kill them extra dead. We don't even need to kill them at all. We just need them to stop. While multiple attackers are possible, unless you deal coke or meth, or your last name is Bauer, the odds of ANY home invasion happening, much less an armed, trained team in body armor, are pretty small. How much extra do you want to invest against that threat? Know your life, know your surroundings, assess the likely threat, asses the most dangerous threat, and choose accordingly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 6:21:33 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In some situations, the shotgun is better. That's the crux of the argument. If you're just talking about stopping human threats, it just isn't. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 6:56:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<random blathering> You're sitting at home watching tv and the cat starts going nuts. you look out the window and some guy is trying to get into your home via one of the windows. You go to the nearest door which is 10 feet from the window and open it and confront the guy. what gun do you take with you? The AR, because it's a better platform. I'm unsure what 672sqft has to do with this conversation at all. All the strengths that the shotgun has at close ranges the rifle does too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 6:58:18 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably not. I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. Scoff at the shotgun if you want - it has an intimidation factor that the carbine doesn't. It has a means to potentially end the encounter that the carbine doesn't. Neither choice is bad. EIther choice can get the job done. In some situations, the carbine is better. Those situations principally involve simultaneous multiple attackers. In some situations, the shotgun is better. More ammo verstility, more punch per trigger pull at close range, the ability to slamfire or fire semi-auto in some weapons choices, two completely independent chambers, barrels, rounds, and ignition systems in others. If you have either, they can be potent self-defense weapons with proper ammo selection. The shotgun has a lower cost-to-enter factor. It is also more likely to already be possed in the home, which means it is more likely to be available without spending extra money. Athough that is changing slightly, and that is a good thing. The shotgun has a wider range of legal availability. The carbine fires 1 very potent projectile per trigger pull. Teh shotgun fires one massive, extremely potent projectile per ttrigger pull (see: winchester segmenting slug video) or multiple, slightly less effective than the carbine, projectiles. But guess what? We don't need to kill them extra dead. We don't even need to kill them at all. We just need them to stop. While multiple attackers are possible, unless you deal coke or meth, or your last name is Bauer, the odds of ANY home invasion happening, much less an armed, trained team in body armor, are pretty small. How much extra do you want to invest against that threat? Know your life, know your surroundings, assess the likely threat, asses the most dangerous threat, and choose accordingly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:I've eaten goose, duck, pheasant and ribbit killed by me with my shotgun. The same shotgun I load with buckshot and slug for home defense. I don't have $800 for an AR plus 4-5 hundred for ammo and accessories right now, so I soldier on with my shotgun, my Garand, and my 1911s. Strangely, I don't feel under-gunned or ill-prepared. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. You got what got. Use it the best you can. If you had an AR and all the goodies, would you look at things differently? Probably not. I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. Scoff at the shotgun if you want - it has an intimidation factor that the carbine doesn't. It has a means to potentially end the encounter that the carbine doesn't. Neither choice is bad. EIther choice can get the job done. In some situations, the carbine is better. Those situations principally involve simultaneous multiple attackers. In some situations, the shotgun is better. More ammo verstility, more punch per trigger pull at close range, the ability to slamfire or fire semi-auto in some weapons choices, two completely independent chambers, barrels, rounds, and ignition systems in others. If you have either, they can be potent self-defense weapons with proper ammo selection. The shotgun has a lower cost-to-enter factor. It is also more likely to already be possed in the home, which means it is more likely to be available without spending extra money. Athough that is changing slightly, and that is a good thing. The shotgun has a wider range of legal availability. The carbine fires 1 very potent projectile per trigger pull. Teh shotgun fires one massive, extremely potent projectile per ttrigger pull (see: winchester segmenting slug video) or multiple, slightly less effective than the carbine, projectiles. But guess what? We don't need to kill them extra dead. We don't even need to kill them at all. We just need them to stop. While multiple attackers are possible, unless you deal coke or meth, or your last name is Bauer, the odds of ANY home invasion happening, much less an armed, trained team in body armor, are pretty small. How much extra do you want to invest against that threat? Know your life, know your surroundings, assess the likely threat, asses the most dangerous threat, and choose accordingly. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 7:05:05 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The FBI did some very extensive ammo testing in ballistic gel. They consider 12" penetration to be the minimum requirement. HP handgun rounds in 9mm and .40 met the minimum penetration requirement. Every size of buckshot round also met the minimum penetration requirement. They found out that different .223 rounds did not have adequate penetration in ballistic gel. It amazes me that 99% of the people on this site have never looked at any forums other than GD. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 7:06:21 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably not. I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. Scoff at the shotgun if you want - it has an intimidation factor that the carbine doesn't. It has a means to potentially end the encounter that the carbine doesn't. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 7:08:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Probably not. I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. Scoff at the shotgun if you want - it has an intimidation factor that the carbine doesn't. It has a means to potentially end the encounter that the carbine doesn't. oh boy this one's getting good now |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 7:17:20 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably not. I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. Scoff at the shotgun if you want - it has an intimidation factor that the carbine doesn't. It has a means to potentially end the encounter that the carbine doesn't. Neither choice is bad. EIther choice can get the job done. In some situations, the carbine is better. Those situations principally involve simultaneous multiple attackers. In some situations, the shotgun is better. More ammo verstility, more punch per trigger pull at close range, the ability to slamfire or fire semi-auto in some weapons choices, two completely independent chambers, barrels, rounds, and ignition systems in others. If you have either, they can be potent self-defense weapons with proper ammo selection. The shotgun has a lower cost-to-enter factor. It is also more likely to already be possed in the home, which means it is more likely to be available without spending extra money. Athough that is changing slightly, and that is a good thing. The shotgun has a wider range of legal availability. The carbine fires 1 very potent projectile per trigger pull. Teh shotgun fires one massive, extremely potent projectile per ttrigger pull (see: winchester segmenting slug video) or multiple, slightly less effective than the carbine, projectiles. But guess what? We don't need to kill them extra dead. We don't even need to kill them at all. We just need them to stop. While multiple attackers are possible, unless you deal coke or meth, or your last name is Bauer, the odds of ANY home invasion happening, much less an armed, trained team in body armor, are pretty small. How much extra do you want to invest against that threat? Know your life, know your surroundings, assess the likely threat, asses the most dangerous threat, and choose accordingly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:I've eaten goose, duck, pheasant and ribbit killed by me with my shotgun. The same shotgun I load with buckshot and slug for home defense. I don't have $800 for an AR plus 4-5 hundred for ammo and accessories right now, so I soldier on with my shotgun, my Garand, and my 1911s. Strangely, I don't feel under-gunned or ill-prepared. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. You got what got. Use it the best you can. If you had an AR and all the goodies, would you look at things differently? Probably not. I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. Scoff at the shotgun if you want - it has an intimidation factor that the carbine doesn't. It has a means to potentially end the encounter that the carbine doesn't. Neither choice is bad. EIther choice can get the job done. In some situations, the carbine is better. Those situations principally involve simultaneous multiple attackers. In some situations, the shotgun is better. More ammo verstility, more punch per trigger pull at close range, the ability to slamfire or fire semi-auto in some weapons choices, two completely independent chambers, barrels, rounds, and ignition systems in others. If you have either, they can be potent self-defense weapons with proper ammo selection. The shotgun has a lower cost-to-enter factor. It is also more likely to already be possed in the home, which means it is more likely to be available without spending extra money. Athough that is changing slightly, and that is a good thing. The shotgun has a wider range of legal availability. The carbine fires 1 very potent projectile per trigger pull. Teh shotgun fires one massive, extremely potent projectile per ttrigger pull (see: winchester segmenting slug video) or multiple, slightly less effective than the carbine, projectiles. But guess what? We don't need to kill them extra dead. We don't even need to kill them at all. We just need them to stop. While multiple attackers are possible, unless you deal coke or meth, or your last name is Bauer, the odds of ANY home invasion happening, much less an armed, trained team in body armor, are pretty small. How much extra do you want to invest against that threat? Know your life, know your surroundings, assess the likely threat, asses the most dangerous threat, and choose accordingly. Tell that to this victim. Very small town. Granted they weren't armed. 4 arrested in home invasion |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 7:17:21 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So bad guys always lone wolf it and never have any firearms when the do a home invasion? I'm not talking narco terrorist or ISIS, I'm talking yutes looking for meth money and armed with Hi Points. If I see somebody breaking in and I have time, I'm going for the AR or AK, if there is not enough time, I'll grab whichever gun that is in whichever room. That may be a 1911, double stack 9 or, yes, even a shotgun. Most people don't live in a 700 square foot house, I don't. And my cat died several months ago. But whatev dude. Its your life. Quote HistoryQuoted:
dude. 672 square feet. SIX HUNDRED SEVENTY TWO SQUARE FEET. I have a grand total of 5 light fixtures inside my house. I have a clear line of sight down the hall from the bedroom pas the bathroom, past the other bedroom and to the kitchen and living room. there is no place for a squad of ISIS terrorists to hide. the only people would assault my house with rifles armor and helmets would be the cops.
Look I know you want to stroke it thinking that you're gonna walter mitty a band of narco terrorists in your own home but I'm going to throw out a real situation at you I'll get your answer then I'm going to tell you the 2 possible outcomes based on your answer. You're sitting at home watching tv and the cat starts going nuts. you look out the window and some guy is trying to get into your home via one of the windows. You go to the nearest door which is 10 feet from the window and open it and confront the guy. what gun do you take with you? So bad guys always lone wolf it and never have any firearms when the do a home invasion? I'm not talking narco terrorist or ISIS, I'm talking yutes looking for meth money and armed with Hi Points. If I see somebody breaking in and I have time, I'm going for the AR or AK, if there is not enough time, I'll grab whichever gun that is in whichever room. That may be a 1911, double stack 9 or, yes, even a shotgun. Most people don't live in a 700 square foot house, I don't. And my cat died several months ago. But whatev dude. Its your life. congrats. you just got proned out by 3 cops and your weapon seized. or they shot you. because this EXACT situation happened to me. I grabbed a pistol. I opened the door and was about to address the shitbird in question who was high on something, when around the side of the house came 3 cops. they had been chasing this guy. I see a white tac light in my peripheral vision and turn see legs and stuffed my pistol into the back of my pants just as the cops came around the corner. "who are you?" I live here "do you know this guy?" no "does he live here? " No" Go back inside your house sir" you would have been standing there with a long gun and in a sudden shit storm. just because something is more lethal doesn't make it the right tool for the job. and thats my point. we all know a long gun of any kind is far better in a gun fight than a pistol, but that doesn't make it the right tool for the situation at hand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 7:18:50 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps you missed the bunnies and coyotes pictured taken with an AR - they don't equate to home invaders either. The POINT, which you seem utterly unable to grasp, or admit, is that the shot gun is versatile enough to be used for those, AND home defense. Just like ARs can be used for coyote or rabbit huntign, and home defense. One can satisfy their home defense needs with a firearm also suited for their particular choice of game hunting or hobby shooting. Speaking of LOGICAL indivisuals, if you ever find one, perhaps he can give you some lessons ...
That doesn't make EITHER choice bad - it makes them BOTH GOOD. That is not the case for everyone, is it? Show up at a trap or skeet range and try to compete with your 5.56 AR. See what kind of sign they give you. I've eaten goose, duck, pheasant and ribbit killed by me with my shotgun. The same shotgun I load with buckshot and slug for home defense. I don't have $800 for an AR plus 4-5 hundred for ammo and accessories right now, so I soldier on with my shotgun, my Garand, and my 1911s. Strangely, I don't feel under-gunned or ill-prepared. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ducks, geese, pheasants,quail and doves hardly equate to home invaders. A LOGICAL individual might ever ascertain that a firearm suitable for such small critters is of limited value against determined hostiles bent on attacking you in your home. Here is your sign. Perhaps you missed the bunnies and coyotes pictured taken with an AR - they don't equate to home invaders either. The POINT, which you seem utterly unable to grasp, or admit, is that the shot gun is versatile enough to be used for those, AND home defense. Just like ARs can be used for coyote or rabbit huntign, and home defense. One can satisfy their home defense needs with a firearm also suited for their particular choice of game hunting or hobby shooting. Speaking of LOGICAL indivisuals, if you ever find one, perhaps he can give you some lessons ...
That doesn't make EITHER choice bad - it makes them BOTH GOOD. There is no shotgun mandate in my home, but then again I live in a free state. Another Sign. That is not the case for everyone, is it? I thought I handled the trap and skeet stuff with the above reference video. This sign is for you. Show up at a trap or skeet range and try to compete with your 5.56 AR. See what kind of sign they give you. .Why don't you hang a few pictures of your success in the field with the might shotty.
Or are you just guessin. I've eaten goose, duck, pheasant and ribbit killed by me with my shotgun. The same shotgun I load with buckshot and slug for home defense. I don't have $800 for an AR plus 4-5 hundred for ammo and accessories right now, so I soldier on with my shotgun, my Garand, and my 1911s. Strangely, I don't feel under-gunned or ill-prepared. an arfcommer here placed 6th out of 45 shooters at CFDCC once using a garand and WW2 ammo belt for the clips. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 7:18:57 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My point is this, are you prepping for best case or worse case? I am prepared for as many cases as one could imagine, that is why a shotgun is in my arsenal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 7:18:58 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Probably not. I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. Scoff at the shotgun if you want - it has an intimidation factor that the carbine doesn't. It has a means to potentially end the encounter that the carbine doesn't. Mother of God. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 7:19:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The AR, because it's a better platform. I'm unsure what 672sqft has to do with this conversation at all. All the strengths that the shotgun has at close ranges the rifle does too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
<random blathering> You're sitting at home watching tv and the cat starts going nuts. you look out the window and some guy is trying to get into your home via one of the windows. You go to the nearest door which is 10 feet from the window and open it and confront the guy. what gun do you take with you? The AR, because it's a better platform. I'm unsure what 672sqft has to do with this conversation at all. All the strengths that the shotgun has at close ranges the rifle does too. congrats because you got proned out by the cops or worse shot by them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 7:19:48 AM EDT
[#50]
lol
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
