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Posted: 9/15/2014 3:31:41 PM EDT
[#1]
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Is Ebola like the flu? Can it be recontracted after it is survived? The evidence seems to suggest that Ebola survivors have lifetime immunity. You do not get lifetime immunity from influenza because the virus mutates too much. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 3:34:04 PM EDT
[#2]
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I don't think the alarm over the outbreak is people wishing for mass panic but rather demand for more drastic measures now while its is still containable, rather than later when it has gone world wide. We just want the government to put aside political correctness and do what has to be done to minimize the spread. Is that asking too much considering the consequences? and there lies the problem. at what point do international border no longer hold sovereign status? contrary to opinion here it's not as easy as loading up and piling into the region with supplies, money and personnel. Who owns the command and control? WHO, US CDC, US MILITARY, Local CDC? that stuff takes a lot of time and politics to coordinate and many times this turns into agency dick size contests at the worst possible times as everyone is fighting for funds and "authority". |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 3:52:09 PM EDT
[#3]
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And in reality, with a widely studied virus like influenza, there is still little understanding of what all the genes do and which receptors increase transmission. In Ebola, which has had much less exposure to people and much less scientific scrutiny, I expect the genes and what they do is much less understood than influenza. Do to say that the changes are noted but essentially nothing that relates to infectivity / mortality was determined or found doesn't hold much weight, since what the Parts of the virus do is mostly unknown and not understood. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Interesting a real article that talks about the provides supporting documents about Ebola is changing....oh great. did anyone actually bother to read that study. all it really did was confirm 2 separate strains as the starting source in guniea and that some changes were noted but essentially nothing that relates to infectivity/mortality was determined or found. they essentially simply stated they found some minor changes are were releasing the data for further research. this is a perfect example of people not having a clue and posting off a headline. a similar article was already posted awhile back. not sure if it was the same study or not. And in reality, with a widely studied virus like influenza, there is still little understanding of what all the genes do and which receptors increase transmission. In Ebola, which has had much less exposure to people and much less scientific scrutiny, I expect the genes and what they do is much less understood than influenza. Do to say that the changes are noted but essentially nothing that relates to infectivity / mortality was determined or found doesn't hold much weight, since what the Parts of the virus do is mostly unknown and not understood. actually this virus has been very well studied and mapped in the last 20+ years or so. just not on a wide basis that it is getting now. a |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 3:53:54 PM EDT
[#4]
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To the educated eye it looks like something changed. from a Medical Professional point of view, I find it interesting that trained medical professionals who have a history of dealing with this pathogen and its treatment process still were infected. it seems that the stress point of medical personnel peaked and it broke the camels back. TBS might be able to give us some insight on this. in our briefings and conferences, I have never seen CDC, DoD or any other .gov official ever giving us "Numbers" of patients needed to overwhelm a medical system. we know it will happen, we know medical people will be strickened, but we have never seen numbers generated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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interesting read in the Washington Post. take note of the numbers of hospital workers being infected in one hospital. DOD virus hunter Very interesting how it went the way of every other ebola outbreak, 260 cases and stopped, then within the last few days of the double incubation period it exploded, infecting doctors and nurses, something it had not done before. To the uneducated eye it looks like something changed. To the educated eye it looks like something changed. from a Medical Professional point of view, I find it interesting that trained medical professionals who have a history of dealing with this pathogen and its treatment process still were infected. it seems that the stress point of medical personnel peaked and it broke the camels back. TBS might be able to give us some insight on this. in our briefings and conferences, I have never seen CDC, DoD or any other .gov official ever giving us "Numbers" of patients needed to overwhelm a medical system. we know it will happen, we know medical people will be strickened, but we have never seen numbers generated. thats because it varies literally by city/region and disease. it's virtually impossible to nail down such things. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 3:55:31 PM EDT
[#5]
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it would be rational medical thought that any Dr and medical staff serving in Africa would be educated in dealing with pathogens and disease states that are home to that region of the world. they might not have ever seen a case, but the knowledge from their own facilities, WHO and other organizations should have been there. anyone who thinks otherwise is being obtuse. contrary to popular belief, this is not the first Ebola Outbreak to have ever happened in Mother Africa. those people know the drill and how to deal with the infectiousness of the pathogen. they might work with minimal supplies, but they are certainly no dumbasses in regards to treatments and precautions- even it they have not had a verfied case before. For the record, I have never poked fun at any medical issue in that region. I have worked with many medical coworkers from different regions of that continent and have discussed many issues they have to deal with at length. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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interesting read in the Washington Post. take note of the numbers of hospital workers being infected in one hospital. DOD virus hunter Very interesting how it went the way of every other ebola outbreak, 260 cases and stopped, then within the last few days of the double incubation period it exploded, infecting doctors and nurses, something it had not done before. To the uneducated eye it looks like something changed. To the educated eye it looks like something changed. from a Medical Professional point of view, I find it interesting that trained medical professionals who have a history of dealing with this pathogen and its treatment process still were infected. it seems that the stress point of medical personnel peaked and it broke the camels back. TBS might be able to give us some insight on this. in our briefings and conferences, I have never seen CDC, DoD or any other .gov official ever giving us "Numbers" of patients needed to overwhelm a medical system. we know it will happen, we know medical people will be strickened, but we have never seen numbers generated. it would be rational medical thought that any Dr and medical staff serving in Africa would be educated in dealing with pathogens and disease states that are home to that region of the world. they might not have ever seen a case, but the knowledge from their own facilities, WHO and other organizations should have been there. anyone who thinks otherwise is being obtuse. contrary to popular belief, this is not the first Ebola Outbreak to have ever happened in Mother Africa. those people know the drill and how to deal with the infectiousness of the pathogen. they might work with minimal supplies, but they are certainly no dumbasses in regards to treatments and precautions- even it they have not had a verfied case before. For the record, I have never poked fun at any medical issue in that region. I have worked with many medical coworkers from different regions of that continent and have discussed many issues they have to deal with at length. africans very seldom managed the other outbreaks in the bush country. that was almost always found by 3rd party medical teams and managed by western teams. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 3:56:09 PM EDT
[#6]
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CDC issues Ebola checklist: 'Now is the time to prepare' The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, warning hospitals and doctors that “now is the time to prepare,” has issued a six-page Ebola “checklist” to help healthcare workers quickly determine if patients are infected. While the CDC does not believe that there are new cases of Ebola in the United States, the assumption in the checklist is that it is only a matter of time before the virus hits home. http://washingtonexaminer.com/cdc-issues-ebola-checklist-now-is-the-time-to-prepare/article/2553396#! the CDC's job is to expect the worst and hope for the best. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 7:58:38 PM EDT
[#7]
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the CDC's job is to expect the worst and hope for the best. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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CDC issues Ebola checklist: 'Now is the time to prepare' The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, warning hospitals and doctors that “now is the time to prepare,” has issued a six-page Ebola “checklist” to help healthcare workers quickly determine if patients are infected. While the CDC does not believe that there are new cases of Ebola in the United States, the assumption in the checklist is that it is only a matter of time before the virus hits home. http://washingtonexaminer.com/cdc-issues-ebola-checklist-now-is-the-time-to-prepare/article/2553396#! the CDC's job is to expect the worst and hope for the best. My brother-in-law started a new job with the CDC today. I talked to him this evening and he said that exact same phrase. Deja vu moment... |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 8:27:21 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 9/15/2014 9:17:39 PM EDT
[#9]
The United Nations (UN) today announced that the Security Council will hold an emergency meeting on Sep 18 to discuss West Africa's Ebola outbreak, and the epidemic and its response will get attention tomorrow at the top levels of the US government.
The development should come as welcome news for global health and medical aid groups, who have been pressing for more urgent attention and action on an outbreak with cases increasing exponentially and disruptions that threaten three fragile West African nations. A handful of infectious disease experts have also urged the UN Security Council to take up the issue. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 11:30:01 PM EDT
[#10]
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which is still less than 1% of the population of those regions after 8 months. i suspect we will see 50-100k cases by jan before things begin to slowdown. so long as it continues to be contained in those 3 areas, it is still not a real concern for us here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's a link to his Sept 5 article scroll down the page a bit. Pretty much tracks the WHO reports since the 5th. Without airborne mutation. It's a mathematical exercise based upon reported numbers. He predicts 20,000 cases by Oct 24. which is still less than 1% of the population of those regions after 8 months. i suspect we will see 50-100k cases by jan before things begin to slowdown. so long as it continues to be contained in those 3 areas, it is still not a real concern for us here. While you seem to have a good working knowledge of biology, and use the English language well, I wonder what exactly your angle of obfuscation is when you use phrases such as "so long as it continues to be contained""..... .There are NO credible reports of Ebola being contained to ANY particular area, nation or continent. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 12:45:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryFALSE: The disease has mutated and become airborne, and that’s why it’s killing doctors."[There's] no reason why Ebola should mutate to an airborne virus. It survives in body fluids, but not on dry surfaces due to its lipid membrane.” —Dr. Lasry FALSE: A global pandemic is inevitable."The only good news, if there is good news, as Tom Frieden at the CDC says, is that Ebola kills fairly quickly and is not very transmissible. So I think the chances of global pandemic are minuscule. …This is, of course, a problem for all the movies since they want to make whatever disease is in the film very transmissible.” —Professor Morse FALSE: An outbreak similar to what’s happening in Africa could easily happen in the United States."In the industrialized world, people may be afraid that Ebola is going to cause the kind of outbreaks we’ve seen in Africa here. Not so. It doesn’t spread easily. Casual contact isn’t enough to spread it. And it doesn’t really spread through the respiratory route. With good infection control for the patients, it shouldn’t spread.” —Professor Morse It doesn't spread easy? Please, we all know it's as transmittable as the flu or the chickenpox. One guy with Ebola gets on a city bus and we're all goners, within days. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 7:15:32 AM EDT
[#12]
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FALSE: An outbreak similar to what’s happening in Africa could easily happen in the United States."In the industrialized world, people may be afraid that Ebola is going to cause the kind of outbreaks we’ve seen in Africa here. Not so. It doesn’t spread easily. Casual contact isn’t enough to spread it. And it doesn’t really spread through the respiratory route. With good infection control for the patients, it shouldn’t spread.” —Professor MorseIt doesn't spread easy? Please, we all know it's as transmittable as the flu or the chickenpox. One guy with Ebola gets on a city bus and we're all goners, within days. Read the red, then look at this picture. 
if it does not spread through casual contact, then why are the doctors dressed like this, to give water to a patient. If the narrative was that under casual contact, the disease could not sustain at epidemic levels, I could accept that, but the narrative is that you can not contract ebola through casual contact. How much non-casual contact do these people think they will get with a patient wrapped in plastic? 
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Posted: 9/16/2014 7:28:59 AM EDT
[#13]
After reading this thread and getting some good lols, I have come to the conclusion that some arfcommers are humongous cowards. I'm pretty sure by this point a few of you are actually at a large risk of heart attack due to Ebola panic lol.
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Posted: 9/16/2014 7:48:59 AM EDT
[#14]
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Read the red, then look at this picture. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/mach_102/06e1b800605fa126f3908a4d96801e9c_zps1b60f205.jpg if it does not spread through casual contact, then why are the doctors dressed like this, to give water to a patient. If the narrative was that under casual contact, the disease could not sustain at epidemic levels, I could accept that, but the narrative is that you can not contract ebola through casual contact. How much non-casual contact do these people think they will get with a patient wrapped in plastic? http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/mach_102/249284bd09a7b7fcd92bc1eacc9f9bf2_zpsfadd422b.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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FALSE: An outbreak similar to what’s happening in Africa could easily happen in the United States."In the industrialized world, people may be afraid that Ebola is going to cause the kind of outbreaks we’ve seen in Africa here. Not so. It doesn’t spread easily. Casual contact isn’t enough to spread it. And it doesn’t really spread through the respiratory route. With good infection control for the patients, it shouldn’t spread.” —Professor MorseIt doesn't spread easy? Please, we all know it's as transmittable as the flu or the chickenpox. One guy with Ebola gets on a city bus and we're all goners, within days. Read the red, then look at this picture. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/mach_102/06e1b800605fa126f3908a4d96801e9c_zps1b60f205.jpg if it does not spread through casual contact, then why are the doctors dressed like this, to give water to a patient. If the narrative was that under casual contact, the disease could not sustain at epidemic levels, I could accept that, but the narrative is that you can not contract ebola through casual contact. How much non-casual contact do these people think they will get with a patient wrapped in plastic? http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/mach_102/249284bd09a7b7fcd92bc1eacc9f9bf2_zpsfadd422b.jpg UNIVERSAL PRECAUTIONS. they aren't engaging in casual contact they are dealing with 100's of patients a day in all stages of the disease. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 7:52:19 AM EDT
[#15]
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UNIVERSAL PRECAUTIONS. they aren't engaging in casual contact they are dealing with 100's of patients a day in all stages of the disease. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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FALSE: An outbreak similar to what’s happening in Africa could easily happen in the United States."In the industrialized world, people may be afraid that Ebola is going to cause the kind of outbreaks we’ve seen in Africa here. Not so. It doesn’t spread easily. Casual contact isn’t enough to spread it. And it doesn’t really spread through the respiratory route. With good infection control for the patients, it shouldn’t spread.” —Professor MorseIt doesn't spread easy? Please, we all know it's as transmittable as the flu or the chickenpox. One guy with Ebola gets on a city bus and we're all goners, within days. Read the red, then look at this picture. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/mach_102/06e1b800605fa126f3908a4d96801e9c_zps1b60f205.jpg if it does not spread through casual contact, then why are the doctors dressed like this, to give water to a patient. If the narrative was that under casual contact, the disease could not sustain at epidemic levels, I could accept that, but the narrative is that you can not contract ebola through casual contact. How much non-casual contact do these people think they will get with a patient wrapped in plastic? http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/mach_102/249284bd09a7b7fcd92bc1eacc9f9bf2_zpsfadd422b.jpg UNIVERSAL PRECAUTIONS. they aren't engaging in casual contact they are dealing with 100's of patients a day in all stages of the disease. the people in the US transporting the doctor, delt with one patient. The risk is zero, but they wear space suits with self contained air. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 7:55:48 AM EDT
[#16]
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While you seem to have a good working knowledge of biology, and use the English language well, I wonder what exactly your angle of obfuscation is when you use phrases such as "so long as it continues to be contained""..... .There are NO credible reports of Ebola being contained to ANY particular area, nation or continent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's a link to his Sept 5 article scroll down the page a bit. Pretty much tracks the WHO reports since the 5th. Without airborne mutation. It's a mathematical exercise based upon reported numbers. He predicts 20,000 cases by Oct 24. which is still less than 1% of the population of those regions after 8 months. i suspect we will see 50-100k cases by jan before things begin to slowdown. so long as it continues to be contained in those 3 areas, it is still not a real concern for us here. While you seem to have a good working knowledge of biology, and use the English language well, I wonder what exactly your angle of obfuscation is when you use phrases such as "so long as it continues to be contained""..... .There are NO credible reports of Ebola being contained to ANY particular area, nation or continent. because in is currently pretty well contained TO THAT REGION. the outlying areas so far have had minimal exposures and to this point have done a fair job managing it. uncontained means we'd have active cases over the entire continent and most other locations. That is simply not the case... yet. Yes it could happen but i still believe those odds are very low. We are lucky in the regard that this area is not a high traffic region for tourists and business or even much for exports. if you look at the map posted above and track the actual active areas in the regions you will notice that while the disease has affected a pretty wide area, the bulk of the cases so far are actually not that spread out and are still primarily in a small region of the affected area. That does not mean the gov or healthcare system has it contained by any policy<they don't>, simply that the disease itself through location , luck, mother nature, act of god etc... is not moving much beyond the region. That can certainly change and if things continue to degrade it will change. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 7:59:39 AM EDT
[#17]
I am not freaking out at all. I just want the truth. Based on training and experience I question what I am told when I see inconsistency between the words and the actions.. Obviously casual contact has a very low infection rate or africa would be dead by now, but I do not believe that rate is zero based on what I see. Casual contact is shaking hands = can not catch it. Laying on of hands to heal is a primary transmission of EVD. I don't see a lot of difference here, unless the laying on of hands includes swishing your fingers around in blood and then liking your fingers. Maybe I have no idea how stupid and unhygienic africa is. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:04:45 AM EDT
[#18]
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because in is currently pretty well contained TO THAT REGION. the outlying areas so far have had minimal exposures and to this point have done a fair job managing it. uncontained means we'd have active cases over the entire continent and most other locations. That is simply not the case... yet. Yes it could happen but i still believe those odds are very low. We are lucky in the regard that this area is not a high traffic region for tourists and business or even much for exports. if you look at the map posted above and track the actual active areas in the regions you will notice that while the disease has affected a pretty wide area, the bulk of the cases so far are actually not that spread out and are still primarily in a small region of the affected area. That does not mean the gov or healthcare system has it contained by any policy<they don't>, simply that the disease itself through location , luck, mother nature, act of god etc... is not moving much beyond the region. That can certainly change and if things continue to degrade it will change. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's a link to his Sept 5 article scroll down the page a bit. Pretty much tracks the WHO reports since the 5th. Without airborne mutation. It's a mathematical exercise based upon reported numbers. He predicts 20,000 cases by Oct 24. which is still less than 1% of the population of those regions after 8 months. i suspect we will see 50-100k cases by jan before things begin to slowdown. so long as it continues to be contained in those 3 areas, it is still not a real concern for us here. While you seem to have a good working knowledge of biology, and use the English language well, I wonder what exactly your angle of obfuscation is when you use phrases such as "so long as it continues to be contained""..... .There are NO credible reports of Ebola being contained to ANY particular area, nation or continent. because in is currently pretty well contained TO THAT REGION. the outlying areas so far have had minimal exposures and to this point have done a fair job managing it. uncontained means we'd have active cases over the entire continent and most other locations. That is simply not the case... yet. Yes it could happen but i still believe those odds are very low. We are lucky in the regard that this area is not a high traffic region for tourists and business or even much for exports. if you look at the map posted above and track the actual active areas in the regions you will notice that while the disease has affected a pretty wide area, the bulk of the cases so far are actually not that spread out and are still primarily in a small region of the affected area. That does not mean the gov or healthcare system has it contained by any policy<they don't>, simply that the disease itself through location , luck, mother nature, act of god etc... is not moving much beyond the region. That can certainly change and if things continue to degrade it will change. With the lack of infrastructure, govt control, and communication, how can authorities even know that outlying areas have no cases? They are overwhelmed, reducing further any ability to know what is really going on in those areas. I am not sure that is an accurate assumption. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:07:15 AM EDT
[#19]
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the people in the US transporting the doctor, delt with one patient. The risk is zero, but they wear space suits with self contained air. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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FALSE: An outbreak similar to what’s happening in Africa could easily happen in the United States."In the industrialized world, people may be afraid that Ebola is going to cause the kind of outbreaks we’ve seen in Africa here. Not so. It doesn’t spread easily. Casual contact isn’t enough to spread it. And it doesn’t really spread through the respiratory route. With good infection control for the patients, it shouldn’t spread.” —Professor MorseIt doesn't spread easy? Please, we all know it's as transmittable as the flu or the chickenpox. One guy with Ebola gets on a city bus and we're all goners, within days. Read the red, then look at this picture. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/mach_102/06e1b800605fa126f3908a4d96801e9c_zps1b60f205.jpg if it does not spread through casual contact, then why are the doctors dressed like this, to give water to a patient. If the narrative was that under casual contact, the disease could not sustain at epidemic levels, I could accept that, but the narrative is that you can not contract ebola through casual contact. How much non-casual contact do these people think they will get with a patient wrapped in plastic? http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/mach_102/249284bd09a7b7fcd92bc1eacc9f9bf2_zpsfadd422b.jpg UNIVERSAL PRECAUTIONS. they aren't engaging in casual contact they are dealing with 100's of patients a day in all stages of the disease. the people in the US transporting the doctor, delt with one patient. The risk is zero, but they wear space suits with self contained air. dude we wore that gear dealing with anything that was a communicable disease in or out of bio labs. it's not only smart, it's policy by most facilities. that gear is much cheaper than the medical bills for an employee. it's about lowering risk. as for the patient, it not only reduces the infection potential it also make decon of the equipment much easier. less chance of missing something and less time out of service. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:11:43 AM EDT
[#20]
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With the lack of infrastructure, govt control, and communication, how can authorities even know that outlying areas have no cases? They don't even claim to have accurate information on the total number of cases (which is why the WHO has stated that the real number could be two to four times greater than the number reported in "hard hit" areas). When the number of cases isn't known, it isn't possible to know the locations of each case. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:15:15 AM EDT
[#21]
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I am not freaking out at all. I just want the truth. Based on training and experience I question what I am told when I see inconsistency between the words and the actions.. Obviously casual contact has a very low infection rate or africa would be dead by now, but I do not believe that rate is zero based on what I see. Casual contact is shaking hands = can not catch it. Laying on of hands to heal is a primary transmission of EVD. I don't see a lot of difference here, unless the laying on of hands includes swishing your fingers around in blood and then liking your fingers. Maybe I have no idea how stupid and unhygienic africa is. laying of hands tends to be longer sustained contact, and contact with many parts of the body that tend to be sweaty and less prone to cleaning than our hands. and yes shaking hands with an ebola patient can certainly lead to exposure. ANY contact with fluids such as sweat will expose you. That is one of the bad parts of ebola. it takes a VERY small amount of the virus to cause an infection. also consider the fact of no A/C or even power in many locations in a hot environment and people sweat.. they sweat A LOT. the part in red really is a major issue there. and i don't think your freaking out. You have valid concerns and have raised some great questions. this stuff is scary, even more so when you see the pics and have no real frame of reference for the what and why behind them. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:16:29 AM EDT
[#22]
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They don't even claim to have accurate information on the total number of cases (which is why the WHO has stated that the real number could be two to four times greater than the number reported in "hard hit" areas). When the number of cases isn't known, it isn't possible to know the locations of each case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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With the lack of infrastructure, govt control, and communication, how can authorities even know that outlying areas have no cases? They don't even claim to have accurate information on the total number of cases (which is why the WHO has stated that the real number could be two to four times greater than the number reported in "hard hit" areas). When the number of cases isn't known, it isn't possible to know the locations of each case. they don't know exact numbers but knowing affected areas is not hard to map. 1 case equals affected area. you will notice the map above also lists "suspected but not confirmed" locations. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:19:49 AM EDT
[#23]
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dude we wore that gear dealing with anything that was a communicable disease in or out of bio labs. it's not only smart, it's policy by most facilities. that gear is much cheaper than the medical bills for an employee. it's about lowering risk. as for the patient, it not only reduces the infection potential it also make decon of the equipment much easier. less chance of missing something and less time out of service. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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FALSE: An outbreak similar to what’s happening in Africa could easily happen in the United States."In the industrialized world, people may be afraid that Ebola is going to cause the kind of outbreaks we’ve seen in Africa here. Not so. It doesn’t spread easily. Casual contact isn’t enough to spread it. And it doesn’t really spread through the respiratory route. With good infection control for the patients, it shouldn’t spread.” —Professor MorseIt doesn't spread easy? Please, we all know it's as transmittable as the flu or the chickenpox. One guy with Ebola gets on a city bus and we're all goners, within days. Read the red, then look at this picture. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/mach_102/06e1b800605fa126f3908a4d96801e9c_zps1b60f205.jpg if it does not spread through casual contact, then why are the doctors dressed like this, to give water to a patient. If the narrative was that under casual contact, the disease could not sustain at epidemic levels, I could accept that, but the narrative is that you can not contract ebola through casual contact. How much non-casual contact do these people think they will get with a patient wrapped in plastic? http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/mach_102/249284bd09a7b7fcd92bc1eacc9f9bf2_zpsfadd422b.jpg UNIVERSAL PRECAUTIONS. they aren't engaging in casual contact they are dealing with 100's of patients a day in all stages of the disease. the people in the US transporting the doctor, delt with one patient. The risk is zero, but they wear space suits with self contained air. dude we wore that gear dealing with anything that was a communicable disease in or out of bio labs. it's not only smart, it's policy by most facilities. that gear is much cheaper than the medical bills for an employee. it's about lowering risk. as for the patient, it not only reduces the infection potential it also make decon of the equipment much easier. less chance of missing something and less time out of service. What risk is being reduced and what infection potential is being reduced if there is no risk of infection due to casual contact? Do you not see the inconsistency here? |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:21:50 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Maybe I have no idea how stupid and unhygienic africa is. Ding, ding, ding. Subsaharan Africa has been a dirty shithole since the begging of time. Any cent spent on that place is a cent wasted. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:22:44 AM EDT
[#25]
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laying of hands tends to be longer sustained contact, and contact with many parts of the body that tend to be sweaty and less prone to cleaning than our hands. and yes shaking hands with an ebola patient can certainly lead to exposure. ANY contact with fluids such as sweat will expose you. That is one of the bad parts of ebola. it takes a VERY small amount of the virus to cause an infection. also consider the fact of no A/C or even power in many locations in a hot environment and people sweat.. they sweat A LOT. the part in red really is a major issue there. and i don't think your freaking out. You have valid concerns and have raised some great questions. this stuff is scary, even more so when you see the pics and have no real frame of reference for the what and why behind them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I am not freaking out at all. I just want the truth. Based on training and experience I question what I am told when I see inconsistency between the words and the actions.. Obviously casual contact has a very low infection rate or africa would be dead by now, but I do not believe that rate is zero based on what I see. Casual contact is shaking hands = can not catch it. Laying on of hands to heal is a primary transmission of EVD. I don't see a lot of difference here, unless the laying on of hands includes swishing your fingers around in blood and then liking your fingers. Maybe I have no idea how stupid and unhygienic africa is. laying of hands tends to be longer sustained contact, and contact with many parts of the body that tend to be sweaty and less prone to cleaning than our hands. and yes shaking hands with an ebola patient can certainly lead to exposure. ANY contact with fluids such as sweat will expose you. That is one of the bad parts of ebola. it takes a VERY small amount of the virus to cause an infection. also consider the fact of no A/C or even power in many locations in a hot environment and people sweat.. they sweat A LOT. the part in red really is a major issue there. and i don't think your freaking out. You have valid concerns and have raised some great questions. this stuff is scary, even more so when you see the pics and have no real frame of reference for the what and why behind them. so shaking hands is in fact more than casual contact? Ok, then that was a major misunderstanding on my part, the definition of casual contact. To me people do that all day long, I thought shaking hands was casual contact. So casual contact is actually no physical contact? |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:33:13 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so shaking hands is in fact more than casual contact? Ok, then that was a major misunderstanding on my part, the definition of casual contact. To me people do that all day long, I thought shaking hands was casual contact. So casual contact is actually no physical contact? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I am not freaking out at all. I just want the truth. Based on training and experience I question what I am told when I see inconsistency between the words and the actions.. Obviously casual contact has a very low infection rate or africa would be dead by now, but I do not believe that rate is zero based on what I see. Casual contact is shaking hands = can not catch it. Laying on of hands to heal is a primary transmission of EVD. I don't see a lot of difference here, unless the laying on of hands includes swishing your fingers around in blood and then liking your fingers. Maybe I have no idea how stupid and unhygienic africa is. laying of hands tends to be longer sustained contact, and contact with many parts of the body that tend to be sweaty and less prone to cleaning than our hands. and yes shaking hands with an ebola patient can certainly lead to exposure. ANY contact with fluids such as sweat will expose you. That is one of the bad parts of ebola. it takes a VERY small amount of the virus to cause an infection. also consider the fact of no A/C or even power in many locations in a hot environment and people sweat.. they sweat A LOT. the part in red really is a major issue there. and i don't think your freaking out. You have valid concerns and have raised some great questions. this stuff is scary, even more so when you see the pics and have no real frame of reference for the what and why behind them. so shaking hands is in fact more than casual contact? Ok, then that was a major misunderstanding on my part, the definition of casual contact. To me people do that all day long, I thought shaking hands was casual contact. So casual contact is actually no physical contact? yes and no. i consider casual contact general intermingling with people. that may or may not involve shaking hands. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:40:30 AM EDT
[#27]
this is healthcare in africa guys. this is a MAJOR part of why things are bad.
hospital in guinea 
conraky guinea 
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:56:31 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they don't know exact numbers but knowing affected areas is not hard to map. 1 case equals affected area. you will notice the map above also lists "suspected but not confirmed" locations. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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With the lack of infrastructure, govt control, and communication, how can authorities even know that outlying areas have no cases? They don't even claim to have accurate information on the total number of cases (which is why the WHO has stated that the real number could be two to four times greater than the number reported in "hard hit" areas). When the number of cases isn't known, it isn't possible to know the locations of each case. they don't know exact numbers but knowing affected areas is not hard to map. 1 case equals affected area. you will notice the map above also lists "suspected but not confirmed" locations. You've taken "Don't Worry, Be Happy!" to the point of absurdity and are now attempting to deny logic. A case which is unknown can be anywhere, which includes the possibility that it has occurred in an area where the disease has not previously been reported. In such event, both the case and the LOCATION would be, by definition UNKNOWN. Your map shows the location of reported cases. It cannot show the location of unreported cases. 
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Posted: 9/16/2014 9:01:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ding, ding, ding. Subsaharan Africa has been a dirty shithole since the begging of time. Any cent spent on that place is a cent wasted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:Maybe I have no idea how stupid and unhygienic africa is. Ding, ding, ding. Subsaharan Africa has been a dirty shithole since the begging of time. Any cent spent on that place is a cent wasted. True...but then we get quotes like this: FALSE: Open and outdated sewage systems account for why the disease is spreading so quickly in third world, African countries. “Nobody I know of has ever gotten Ebola from the water, even in these resource-limited countries. …And the sewage systems probably have little effect on the occurrence of disease.” —Professor Morse Shithole helping or not? lol |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 9:02:59 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: this is healthcare in africa guys. this is a MAJOR part of why things are bad. Yep, and this is why this outbreak will remain almost entirely in the third world. Modern healthcare can deal with this just fine. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 9:34:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, and this is why this outbreak will remain almost entirely in the third world. Modern healthcare can deal with this just fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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this is healthcare in africa guys. this is a MAJOR part of why things are bad. Yep, and this is why this outbreak will remain almost entirely in the third world. Modern healthcare can deal with this just fine. no it wont. none of the data given to me for our protocols gave me hope of standardized treatment in a large hospital with normal universal precautions (beds 500-1200) without staff infection. we do not have the quarantine beds and specialized facilities to handle more than 30 cases or so in the US.(based on 5-6 facilities with 3-10 bio quarantine beds in each one). it is killing people in Nigerian hospitals and alot of their facilities are modernized. if you read the ASCP journal article on the manpower needed for one patient alone you will see the strain put on normal healthcare. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 9:46:39 AM EDT
[#32]
on a side note I recieved a letter from a government agency ordering a Safety Stand Down for all laboratories under their jurisdiction for the following:
Cleaning of all areas and to catalog for any unregistered Biological Select Agents and Toxins ( BSAT) Review all procedures for Biosafety, Biosecurity and inventory management Brainstorm with employees toenhance biosecurity Conduct facility biosafety training sessions complete safety assessments or mock emergency response activities this is the first time I have ever seen a letter like this from a .Gov Agency and I have been with the laboratory 15 years and owner for 10 of those years. alot of stuff to be concerned about right now. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 10:05:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've taken "Don't Worry, Be Happy!" to the point of absurdity and are now attempting to deny logic. A case which is unknown can be anywhere, which includes the possibility that it has occurred in an area where the disease has not previously been reported. In such event, both the case and the LOCATION would be, by definition UNKNOWN. Your map shows the location of reported cases. It cannot show the location of unreported cases. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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With the lack of infrastructure, govt control, and communication, how can authorities even know that outlying areas have no cases? They don't even claim to have accurate information on the total number of cases (which is why the WHO has stated that the real number could be two to four times greater than the number reported in "hard hit" areas). When the number of cases isn't known, it isn't possible to know the locations of each case. they don't know exact numbers but knowing affected areas is not hard to map. 1 case equals affected area. you will notice the map above also lists "suspected but not confirmed" locations. You've taken "Don't Worry, Be Happy!" to the point of absurdity and are now attempting to deny logic. A case which is unknown can be anywhere, which includes the possibility that it has occurred in an area where the disease has not previously been reported. In such event, both the case and the LOCATION would be, by definition UNKNOWN. Your map shows the location of reported cases. It cannot show the location of unreported cases. now that comment is just delusional. one thing about ebola is it's pretty easy to determin where it's been. mass deaths are illness are a good indicator of that. unreported cases are not the same as suspected or unknown. by your logic we have ebola world wide now we just don't know it.
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Posted: 9/16/2014 10:07:00 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True...but then we get quotes like this: FALSE: Open and outdated sewage systems account for why the disease is spreading so quickly in third world, African countries. “Nobody I know of has ever gotten Ebola from the water, even in these resource-limited countries. …And the sewage systems probably have little effect on the occurrence of disease.” —Professor Morse Shithole helping or not? lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:Maybe I have no idea how stupid and unhygienic africa is. Ding, ding, ding. Subsaharan Africa has been a dirty shithole since the begging of time. Any cent spent on that place is a cent wasted. True...but then we get quotes like this: FALSE: Open and outdated sewage systems account for why the disease is spreading so quickly in third world, African countries. “Nobody I know of has ever gotten Ebola from the water, even in these resource-limited countries. …And the sewage systems probably have little effect on the occurrence of disease.” —Professor Morse Shithole helping or not? lol that particular comment was about water treatment and sewage. it doesn't address rotting bodies in the street and basic sanitation. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 10:09:45 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
on a side note I recieved a letter from a government agency ordering a Safety Stand Down for all laboratories under their jurisdiction for the following: Cleaning of all areas and to catalog for any unregistered Biological Select Agents and Toxins ( BSAT) Review all procedures for Biosafety, Biosecurity and inventory management Brainstorm with employees toenhance biosecurity Conduct facility biosafety training sessions complete safety assessments or mock emergency response activities this is the first time I have ever seen a letter like this from a .Gov Agency and I have been with the laboratory 15 years and owner for 10 of those years. alot of stuff to be concerned about right now. concerned yes, shitting ourselves no. this is also the first time in 15 years you have seen potential samples of something like ebola being run by anything outside of specific labs. that i suspect is much more planing and precaution than OH SHIT EBOLA IS LOOSE |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 11:05:02 AM EDT
[#36]
It's like this... African "hospitals" often make the public restroom at the truck stop look like five star resorts. They tend to be short on the most basic medicines and supplies and have no clean or running water. Let's say a patient with food poisoning comes in, and they put him in a bed with sheets that still have blood from a dead ebola patient on it. There's a good chance that food poisoning turns into ebola. Then Mr. Food Poisoning is close to death and starts vomiting all over the place and crapping himself. There's not enough soap and water to sanitize everything properly and suddenly a nurse has his ebola.
It goes beyond the poverty though. Lots of it is cultural. Many Africans think their witch doctor hocus pocus is scientific and that western science is just a hocus pocus scam. Instead of taking a guy with ebola to the hospital they take him to the local witch doctor, who starts performing ceremonies. Those might include lots of touching and even kissing of the patient. Basic hygiene is ignored because the cactus god or whatever is going to keep them safe. There's a good chance all those people are going to get ebola. There was even a story of people in Liberia storming an ebola clinic and looting it, including running off with bloody sheets and dirty equipment. They think ebola is just a hoax. I wonder how many of them have it now. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 1:24:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
concerned yes, shitting ourselves no. this is also the first time in 15 years you have seen potential samples of something like ebola being run by anything outside of specific labs. that i suspect is much more planing and precaution than OH SHIT EBOLA IS LOOSE Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
on a side note I recieved a letter from a government agency ordering a Safety Stand Down for all laboratories under their jurisdiction for the following: Cleaning of all areas and to catalog for any unregistered Biological Select Agents and Toxins ( BSAT) Review all procedures for Biosafety, Biosecurity and inventory management Brainstorm with employees toenhance biosecurity Conduct facility biosafety training sessions complete safety assessments or mock emergency response activities this is the first time I have ever seen a letter like this from a .Gov Agency and I have been with the laboratory 15 years and owner for 10 of those years. alot of stuff to be concerned about right now. concerned yes, shitting ourselves no. this is also the first time in 15 years you have seen potential samples of something like ebola being run by anything outside of specific labs. that i suspect is much more planing and precaution than OH SHIT EBOLA IS LOOSE since this is a Homeland Security deal, they are far more worried about Terroristic uses of Biologics. everything about the letter pointed to this. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 2:06:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
since this is a Homeland Security deal, they are far more worried about Terroristic uses of Biologics. everything about the letter pointed to this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
on a side note I recieved a letter from a government agency ordering a Safety Stand Down for all laboratories under their jurisdiction for the following: Cleaning of all areas and to catalog for any unregistered Biological Select Agents and Toxins ( BSAT) Review all procedures for Biosafety, Biosecurity and inventory management Brainstorm with employees toenhance biosecurity Conduct facility biosafety training sessions complete safety assessments or mock emergency response activities this is the first time I have ever seen a letter like this from a .Gov Agency and I have been with the laboratory 15 years and owner for 10 of those years. alot of stuff to be concerned about right now. concerned yes, shitting ourselves no. this is also the first time in 15 years you have seen potential samples of something like ebola being run by anything outside of specific labs. that i suspect is much more planing and precaution than OH SHIT EBOLA IS LOOSE since this is a Homeland Security deal, they are far more worried about Terroristic uses of Biologics. everything about the letter pointed to this. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 2:28:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
concerned yes, shitting ourselves no. this is also the first time in 15 years you have seen potential samples of something like ebola being run by anything outside of specific labs. that i suspect is much more planing and precaution than OH SHIT EBOLA IS LOOSE Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
on a side note I recieved a letter from a government agency ordering a Safety Stand Down for all laboratories under their jurisdiction for the following: Cleaning of all areas and to catalog for any unregistered Biological Select Agents and Toxins ( BSAT) Review all procedures for Biosafety, Biosecurity and inventory management Brainstorm with employees toenhance biosecurity Conduct facility biosafety training sessions complete safety assessments or mock emergency response activities this is the first time I have ever seen a letter like this from a .Gov Agency and I have been with the laboratory 15 years and owner for 10 of those years. alot of stuff to be concerned about right now. concerned yes, shitting ourselves no. this is also the first time in 15 years you have seen potential samples of something like ebola being run by anything outside of specific labs. that i suspect is much more planing and precaution than OH SHIT EBOLA IS LOOSE I thought the samples only went to CDC or similar special facilities. What are "specific labs"? I hope they limit those samples to competent laboratories that take adequate precautions,. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 2:38:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought the samples only went to CDC or similar special facilities. What are "specific labs"? I hope they limit those samples to competent laboratories that take adequate precautions,. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
on a side note I recieved a letter from a government agency ordering a Safety Stand Down for all laboratories under their jurisdiction for the following: Cleaning of all areas and to catalog for any unregistered Biological Select Agents and Toxins ( BSAT) Review all procedures for Biosafety, Biosecurity and inventory management Brainstorm with employees toenhance biosecurity Conduct facility biosafety training sessions complete safety assessments or mock emergency response activities this is the first time I have ever seen a letter like this from a .Gov Agency and I have been with the laboratory 15 years and owner for 10 of those years. alot of stuff to be concerned about right now. concerned yes, shitting ourselves no. this is also the first time in 15 years you have seen potential samples of something like ebola being run by anything outside of specific labs. that i suspect is much more planing and precaution than OH SHIT EBOLA IS LOOSE I thought the samples only went to CDC or similar special facilities. What are "specific labs"? I hope they limit those samples to competent laboratories that take adequate precautions,. currently yes. my feeling is that this pre planning in the event we have an issue. prior planning and precautions in place. haven't seen the memo don't know. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 2:42:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
currently yes. my feeling is that this pre planning in the event we have an issue. prior planning and precautions in place. haven't seen the memo don't know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
on a side note I recieved a letter from a government agency ordering a Safety Stand Down for all laboratories under their jurisdiction for the following: Cleaning of all areas and to catalog for any unregistered Biological Select Agents and Toxins ( BSAT) Review all procedures for Biosafety, Biosecurity and inventory management Brainstorm with employees toenhance biosecurity Conduct facility biosafety training sessions complete safety assessments or mock emergency response activities this is the first time I have ever seen a letter like this from a .Gov Agency and I have been with the laboratory 15 years and owner for 10 of those years. alot of stuff to be concerned about right now. concerned yes, shitting ourselves no. this is also the first time in 15 years you have seen potential samples of something like ebola being run by anything outside of specific labs. that i suspect is much more planing and precaution than OH SHIT EBOLA IS LOOSE I thought the samples only went to CDC or similar special facilities. What are "specific labs"? I hope they limit those samples to competent laboratories that take adequate precautions,. currently yes. my feeling is that this pre planning in the event we have an issue. prior planning and precautions in place. haven't seen the memo don't know. I would presume that any hospital set up for an ebola patient would have a laboratory facility with similar precautions. It's not like you'd hand a few vials of blood to the Fedex guy and say, "Here, try to get this to Atlanta." Found it. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 3:17:30 PM EDT
[#42]
I haven't seen a update from the WHO in four days.
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Posted: 9/16/2014 3:25:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't seen a update from the WHO in four days. http://rockandrollart.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/WHo-Roger-Daltrey-Pete-Townshend-82-copy-1024x707.jpg they all died |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 4:23:14 PM EDT
[#44]
"Obama says the outbreak is now an unprecedented epidemic that threatens global security and is spiraling out of control. But he says chances the outbreak will spread into the U.S. are "extremely low.""
The One says it so everyone can calm down......right? 
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Posted: 9/16/2014 4:31:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Obama is committing more US troops to W. Africa (3,000) than he is to Iraq.
I wouldn't trade one American life for hundreds of .... Never mind. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 5:21:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Hey...22 ammo....will be....
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Posted: 9/16/2014 5:30:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Obama is committing more US troops to W. Africa (3,000) than he is to Iraq.
I wouldn't trade one American life for hundreds of .... Never mind. too late, the decision has been made already, at the highest levels. Highest levels.......... |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 5:52:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
too late, the decision has been made already, at the highest levels. Highest levels.......... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Obama is committing more US troops to W. Africa (3,000) than he is to Iraq.
I wouldn't trade one American life for hundreds of .... Never mind. too late, the decision has been made already, at the highest levels. Highest levels.......... by TOP men |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 6:12:37 PM EDT
[#49]
I think we should acknowledge TBS as the voice of experience and reason ITT and demand that he
KNOCK IT OFF RIGHT NOW! What a funsucker... |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 7:03:35 PM EDT
[#50]
your right...
can we lobby the great goat for an ebola forum? |
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