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Posted: 7/20/2014 11:07:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would they WANT to shoot down a civil airliner? Hold my vodka and watch this I can buy, but a sober and rationalized decision to do it? Nah. I cannot imagine why they would do it on purpose. However, given that Russia knew of the commercial traffic and the capabilities of their BUK, such negligence must be seen as willful. Regardless, the Russians are responsible. Russians shot it down. Whether they did it on purpose has yet to be determined. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 11:12:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't be naive. We already know EXACTLY what occurred. There are so many eyes on that area, there is nothing about this incident that we don't know (other than the serial number on the dogtags of the Russian soldier who shot it down).The FAA is a domestic, US entity with no control over foreign airlines flying in foreign skies. The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ukraine didn't start shouting 23 dead Americans? Why would they do that? They didn't have a list of passengers why would they claim it? So your saying we don't need to fully investigate this from the start because this isn't a Clancy novel? We shouldn't find out the exact picture from start to finish and make sure we are not being lead into a conflict by a country that knows it can't win on it's own without our help? You think you can minimize the fact the Ukrainians blew up a Russian jet just because they were training yet in a war zone it should be less difficult? We shouldn't question why that flight path is open when the FAA warned about it, our guys were not allowed in it, the Ukrainians have been claiming they had air to air battles with Russian warplanes (and lost), and planes have been shot down day after day right there? What about the reports the pilot changed his course right before it happened because he felt he was in danger or Ukraine snatching up all the air traffic control scripts, or how the plane didn't seem to follow the route the other fights did? We shouldn't check this out? The Ukrainians are every bit as ruthless as the Russians are if not more because they are desperate. Our strategy should be well informed before we start believing every rumor because we are running out of room to make mistakes around the world. The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... He is either intentionally obtuse or English isn't his primary language. I thought I was being funny and informative, but I guess not. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 11:32:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is either intentionally obtuse or English isn't his primary language. I thought I was being funny and informative, but I guess not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ukraine didn't start shouting 23 dead Americans? Why would they do that? They didn't have a list of passengers why would they claim it? So your saying we don't need to fully investigate this from the start because this isn't a Clancy novel? We shouldn't find out the exact picture from start to finish and make sure we are not being lead into a conflict by a country that knows it can't win on it's own without our help? You think you can minimize the fact the Ukrainians blew up a Russian jet just because they were training yet in a war zone it should be less difficult? We shouldn't question why that flight path is open when the FAA warned about it, our guys were not allowed in it, the Ukrainians have been claiming they had air to air battles with Russian warplanes (and lost), and planes have been shot down day after day right there? What about the reports the pilot changed his course right before it happened because he felt he was in danger or Ukraine snatching up all the air traffic control scripts, or how the plane didn't seem to follow the route the other fights did? We shouldn't check this out? The Ukrainians are every bit as ruthless as the Russians are if not more because they are desperate. Our strategy should be well informed before we start believing every rumor because we are running out of room to make mistakes around the world. The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... He is either intentionally obtuse or English isn't his primary language. I thought I was being funny and informative, but I guess not. He's either GRU GSh or FSB. There's no way he's your average, run of the mill Russophile; even they would find it impossible to suck Russia's dick as hard as he is. He's doing mental gymnastics to do everything possible to point in the opposite direction of the freaking obvious. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 12:10:26 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would they WANT to shoot down a civil airliner? Hold my vodka and watch this I can buy, but a sober and rationalized decision to do it? Nah. Because they don't give a shit. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 12:15:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's either GRU GSh or FSB. There's no way he's your average, run of the mill Russophile; even they would find it impossible to suck Russia's dick as hard as he is. He's doing mental gymnastics to do everything possible to point in the opposite direction of the freaking obvious. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He is either intentionally obtuse or English isn't his primary language. I thought I was being funny and informative, but I guess not. He's either GRU GSh or FSB. There's no way he's your average, run of the mill Russophile; even they would find it impossible to suck Russia's dick as hard as he is. He's doing mental gymnastics to do everything possible to point in the opposite direction of the freaking obvious. He's likely GRU. Lots of people think Primorsky was as well. I've been saying he was GRU for a few hundred pages now. Never thought I'd be able to prove it. 
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Posted: 7/21/2014 12:15:49 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would they WANT to shoot down a civil airliner? Hold my vodka and watch this I can buy, but a sober and rationalized decision to do it? Nah. I agree, the only other explanation is it was a retaliation for the sanctions. I think it was an intentional shoot down of the the wrong plane. Putin and his drunk monkeys own this. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 12:23:29 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't be naive. We already know EXACTLY what occurred. There are so many eyes on that area, there is nothing about this incident that we don't know (other than the serial number on the dogtags of the Russian soldier who shot it down).The FAA is a domestic, US entity with no control over foreign airlines flying in foreign skies. The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ukraine didn't start shouting 23 dead Americans? Why would they do that? They didn't have a list of passengers why would they claim it? So your saying we don't need to fully investigate this from the start because this isn't a Clancy novel? We shouldn't find out the exact picture from start to finish and make sure we are not being lead into a conflict by a country that knows it can't win on it's own without our help? You think you can minimize the fact the Ukrainians blew up a Russian jet just because they were training yet in a war zone it should be less difficult? We shouldn't question why that flight path is open when the FAA warned about it, our guys were not allowed in it, the Ukrainians have been claiming they had air to air battles with Russian warplanes (and lost), and planes have been shot down day after day right there? What about the reports the pilot changed his course right before it happened because he felt he was in danger or Ukraine snatching up all the air traffic control scripts, or how the plane didn't seem to follow the route the other fights did? We shouldn't check this out? The Ukrainians are every bit as ruthless as the Russians are if not more because they are desperate. Our strategy should be well informed before we start believing every rumor because we are running out of room to make mistakes around the world. The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... Really... so much certainty as with the "23 murdered Americans" and cursing everyone that did not buy that? 
Well... some folks believed (still believe) the attack at the US Embassy in Benghazi was because of some video. Why not try another stunt and see if it sticks? |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:41:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really... so much certainty as with the "23 murdered Americans" and cursing everyone that did not buy that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... Really... so much certainty as with the "23 murdered Americans" and cursing everyone that did not buy that? One American died. At the time, the latest info was that there were far more. Many of our closest allies lost people. Given THAT info, some here chose to continue to make excuses for the murderers. This includes you. Well... some folks believed (still believe) the attack at the US Embassy in Benghazi was because of some video. Why not try another stunt and see if it sticks? Russia shot down that plane. Russian soldiers. There's no mystery or conspiracy about it. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:59:53 AM EDT
[#9]
I think he's actually pretty sad that "only" 1 American was killed - and fuck everyone else - because then he could blame 23 or 200 deaths on Obama. His level of Derp has equaled Jesse Ventura and is likely to overtake Cindy Sheehan within days.
Nobody with any intellectual honesty can say that the "rebellion" is anything but Russian led and controlled. Name one leadership position in that rabble filled by someone from Donestsk or Luhansk. Yes,there are "local fighters" but if you think those drunk fatasses are manning Buks or calling in accurate Grad/Smerch strikes then you're either drunk or Russian. Without Russia's insistence on being the asshole bully of the neighborhood there would have been no military conflict and no downed plane. The very,very best Russians can offer at this point are wacky conspiracies based around Putin flying over Ukraine,an air-air shoot down,the missing airliner and dead bodies and at their most relatively rational "we wouldn't have shot it down if Ukraine hadn't let it fly over",meaning the dozens of other flights which took the same course were just lucky Sergei wasn't 3 sheets to the wind when they passed his radar scope. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 7:06:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's likely GRU. Lots of people think Primorsky was as well. I've been saying he was GRU for a few hundred pages now. Never thought I'd be able to prove it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: He is either intentionally obtuse or English isn't his primary language. I thought I was being funny and informative, but I guess not. He's either GRU GSh or FSB. There's no way he's your average, run of the mill Russophile; even they would find it impossible to suck Russia's dick as hard as he is. He's doing mental gymnastics to do everything possible to point in the opposite direction of the freaking obvious. He's likely GRU. Lots of people think Primorsky was as well. I've been saying he was GRU for a few hundred pages now. Never thought I'd be able to prove it. But if the GRU or FSB posts here. Hey you fuckski, if I ever get a chance for revenge on what your asshat family members did to mine and my island paradise of Cuba... I will make you wish Stalin was alive and well because I'd make the gulags and NKVD look nice. Fuck Communism, fuck the USSR, and fuck the current assholes wanting a return of the Neo Soviet Russian Empire. I wish nothing but hardship and deatg for your kind. I hope the honest and just people oppressed in Russia get true freedom one day.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 7:52:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why the fuck would GRU or FSB post here? What gains does it give them This site has tons of competent people in alot of sensitive MOS's and in many parts of the defense industry. You can learn what .mil folks are thinking and you may catch something that slips during conversartion (either as a lurker or trolling them for a response) all without leaving the Rodina. There is also the whole disinformation aspect as well. He may not hold rank in the GRU but he could be some guy who is paid by them to troll. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 8:57:56 AM EDT
[#12]
RIA Novosti ?@ria_novosti 1h
Putin to chair Russian security council meeting on Russia's sovereignty and territorial integrity on July 22 |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 9:35:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I cannot imagine why they would do it on purpose. However, given that Russia knew of the commercial traffic and the capabilities of their BUK, such negligence must be seen as willful. Regardless, the Russians are responsible. Russians shot it down. Whether they did it on purpose has yet to be determined. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why would they WANT to shoot down a civil airliner? Hold my vodka and watch this I can buy, but a sober and rationalized decision to do it? Nah. I cannot imagine why they would do it on purpose. However, given that Russia knew of the commercial traffic and the capabilities of their BUK, such negligence must be seen as willful. Regardless, the Russians are responsible. Russians shot it down. Whether they did it on purpose has yet to be determined. I have no idea what a Buk is capable of, but I assume when a target is locked onto by the system, it tells the operator what the altitude of the target is? I'd be terrified shooting at something at 33,000 feet if I was the operator. I refuse to believe a trained operator wouldn't know that is a common cruising altitude for commercial aircraft. I also refuse to believe they wouldn't know the airspace would contain civilian traffic. In my admittedly ignorant opinion, at best case this is a seriously negligent act equivalent to shooting an AR at targets with a school as a backdrop 500 yards away. Either some serious yahoos were at the controls, or something else is going on. I think you would have to be STUPID to shoot at an aircraft at 33,000 feet without solid confirmation it was in fact a legit target. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 9:48:32 AM EDT
[#14]
"Buck fever" is my guess.
There was so much excitement over the Il-76,An-26 and Su-25 shootdowns that even though he should have known that it was an airliner,launched anyway- same thing as a guy unloading buckshot at someone wearing blaze orange because something in his brain is screaming that it's a deer. No,I don't think it was intentional but absolutely think it was a Russian system manned by Russians who can not accept responsibility |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 10:35:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are they? Sometimes I have my doubts whether we are dealing with DU plants. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some of the folks posting here remind me of the FSA calling for George Zimmerman's head before he went to trial. Same mentality, different political/social class Are they? Sometimes I have my doubts whether we are dealing with DU plants. LOL, it is absolutely hilarious how insane some of you Russophiles are. 
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Posted: 7/21/2014 10:43:53 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Name one leadership position in that rabble filled by someone from Donestsk or Luhansk. I believe Bolotov, Gubarev, and Pushilin are all natives of the region. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 11:05:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe Bolotov, Gubarev, and Pushilin are all natives of the region. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Name one leadership position in that rabble filled by someone from Donestsk or Luhansk. I believe Bolotov, Gubarev, and Pushilin are all natives of the region. Bolotov is Russian,Gubarev and Pushilin were born in Ukraine but are just loudmouths with no support and only useful for putting a local face on things. All major posts and decisions are made by Russians.Do you really think Gubarev and Pushilin could give any orders to Girkin and Borodai? Yeah,sure.. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 11:48:43 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bolotov is Russian,Gubarev and Pushilin were born in Ukraine but are just loudmouths with no support and only useful for putting a local face on things. All major posts and decisions are made by Russians.Do you really think Gubarev and Pushilin could give any orders to Girkin and Borodai? Yeah,sure.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Name one leadership position in that rabble filled by someone from Donestsk or Luhansk. I believe Bolotov, Gubarev, and Pushilin are all natives of the region. Bolotov is Russian,Gubarev and Pushilin were born in Ukraine but are just loudmouths with no support and only useful for putting a local face on things. All major posts and decisions are made by Russians.Do you really think Gubarev and Pushilin could give any orders to Girkin and Borodai? Yeah,sure.. From what I've read Bolotov is from Lugansk area, not from Russia in this conflict. But since you want to move the goalposts, what difference does it make. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 12:31:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Bolotov was born in Russia,Pushilin is now unemployed at any rate.
Point being,for a spontaneous local effort that Moscow has no control over,supplies no weapons or fighters to...there are a hell of a lot of Russian citizens with formerly no connections to Ukraine who are showing up and wielding all of the power in Novorossiya. Putin could have done a much better job with this but he never expected the Ukrainians to fight and damn sure wasn't wanting this much attention. He has several problems now: the official story will make him look like a wimp if Bodorai,Antyufeyev and Girkin have to run back to Russia. Not only will the Novorossiyans have been abandoned to be savaged by the fascists but especially in Girkin he's got somebody who has been turned into a folk hero and possible political rival. OTOH,it's especially now not worth a real invasion. This is also weakening Transnistria which was banking on Russia taking all of the Black Sea shoreline. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 1:05:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot imagine why they would do it on purpose. However, given that Russia knew of the commercial traffic and the capabilities of their BUK, such negligence must be seen as willful. Regardless, the Russians are responsible. Russians shot it down. Whether they did it on purpose has yet to be determined. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why would they WANT to shoot down a civil airliner? Hold my vodka and watch this I can buy, but a sober and rationalized decision to do it? Nah. I cannot imagine why they would do it on purpose. However, given that Russia knew of the commercial traffic and the capabilities of their BUK, such negligence must be seen as willful. Regardless, the Russians are responsible. Russians shot it down. Whether they did it on purpose has yet to be determined. I am not sure why but I also do not put it pass the Russian government to do this as a strategic move. It might not look like it from the surface but Russia is known for playing games. It could be to create a bigger schism and galvanize people. There might of been something on that plane that was classified and being used for espionage. There are a lot of things that go on behind closed doors. I am throwing this out there but all we know is the Malaysian airlines was complisant and allowing a government to use their aircraft as a platform for some sort of classified equipment/project. Russia and china might of found out about this from Snowden or other means and this could be why we have one missing jet and another blown out of the skies. But even if all parties knew that each other knew it would never be made public. There are so many possibilities, I am not saying this is it but it would be a reason.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 2:04:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Well, since the "Ukraine shot MH17 it down from the ground" story wasn't being believed, the latest is that Ukraine shot if down from the air.
Russia's now also threatening to sabotage the Vienna Document completely if Ukraine doesn't provide them all the information they have been demanding on their forces. Good times. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 3:46:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Those fascists are veeeeeerrrrry sneaky,using a Frogfoot to shoot down an airliner at cruising speed and altitude rather than one of their Su-27s...
3 unfortunate tourists who took a wrong turn in Kursk and accidentally ended up in Ukraine 
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:32:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those fascists are veeeeeerrrrry sneaky,using a Frogfoot to shoot down an airliner at cruising speed and altitude rather than one of their Su-27s... 3 unfortunate tourists who took a wrong turn in Kursk and accidentally ended up in Ukraine  http://youtu.be/3K_W_B5XdSwThey should be taken out back and properly disposed of as the trash they are. 
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:56:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't be naive. We already know EXACTLY what occurred. There are so many eyes on that area, there is nothing about this incident that we don't know (other than the serial number on the dogtags of the Russian soldier who shot it down).The FAA is a domestic, US entity with no control over foreign airlines flying in foreign skies. The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ukraine didn't start shouting 23 dead Americans? Why would they do that? They didn't have a list of passengers why would they claim it? So your saying we don't need to fully investigate this from the start because this isn't a Clancy novel? We shouldn't find out the exact picture from start to finish and make sure we are not being lead into a conflict by a country that knows it can't win on it's own without our help? You think you can minimize the fact the Ukrainians blew up a Russian jet just because they were training yet in a war zone it should be less difficult? We shouldn't question why that flight path is open when the FAA warned about it, our guys were not allowed in it, the Ukrainians have been claiming they had air to air battles with Russian warplanes (and lost), and planes have been shot down day after day right there? What about the reports the pilot changed his course right before it happened because he felt he was in danger or Ukraine snatching up all the air traffic control scripts, or how the plane didn't seem to follow the route the other fights did? We shouldn't check this out? The Ukrainians are every bit as ruthless as the Russians are if not more because they are desperate. Our strategy should be well informed before we start believing every rumor because we are running out of room to make mistakes around the world. The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... You have been wrong on this thread time and time again. You even lost money on it. You took the fake number of dead American and ran with it berating others. Wrong yet again. I don't trust folks like you who don't want me to think for myself or wait for silly things like investigations or for the full picture to emerge just buy the official story (Benghazi much?) That's how we get fun stuff like the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Me I don't trust much I hear or read these days I'm well aware of the manipulations going on. Im objective not emotional like you are. I'm also not fsb gru or any of that other fantasy shit (lol no lmao). Just a sane person asking questions and wanting answers. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:19:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have been wrong on this thread time and time again. You even lost money on it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have been wrong on this thread time and time again. You even lost money on it. You took the fake number of dead American and ran with it berating others. Wrong yet again. I don't trust folks like you who don't want me to think for myself or wait for silly things like investigations or for the full picture to emerge just buy the official story (Benghazi much?) That's how we get fun stuff like the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Me I don't trust much I hear or read these days I'm well aware of the manipulations going on. Im objective not emotional like you are. I'm also not fsb gru or any of that other fantasy shit (lol no lmao). Just a sane person asking questions and wanting answers. You apparently trust everything that is coming out of Putin's mouth, and from the Russian propaganda factories -why else would you parrot it so willingly? That you pat yourself on the back for "thinking for yourself" while regurgitating Russian propaganda, is ironic in a sad and pathetic way. About as independent and rebellious as a Che T-shirt. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:23:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have been wrong on this thread time and time again. You even lost money on it. You took the fake number of dead American and ran with it berating others. Wrong yet again. I don't trust folks like you who don't want me to think for myself or wait for silly things like investigations or for the full picture to emerge just buy the official story (Benghazi much?) That's how we get fun stuff like the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Me I don't trust much I hear or read these days I'm well aware of the manipulations going on. Im objective not emotional like you are. I'm also not fsb gru or any of that other fantasy shit (lol no lmao). Just a sane person asking questions and wanting answers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ukraine didn't start shouting 23 dead Americans? Why would they do that? They didn't have a list of passengers why would they claim it? So your saying we don't need to fully investigate this from the start because this isn't a Clancy novel? We shouldn't find out the exact picture from start to finish and make sure we are not being lead into a conflict by a country that knows it can't win on it's own without our help? You think you can minimize the fact the Ukrainians blew up a Russian jet just because they were training yet in a war zone it should be less difficult? We shouldn't question why that flight path is open when the FAA warned about it, our guys were not allowed in it, the Ukrainians have been claiming they had air to air battles with Russian warplanes (and lost), and planes have been shot down day after day right there? What about the reports the pilot changed his course right before it happened because he felt he was in danger or Ukraine snatching up all the air traffic control scripts, or how the plane didn't seem to follow the route the other fights did? We shouldn't check this out? The Ukrainians are every bit as ruthless as the Russians are if not more because they are desperate. Our strategy should be well informed before we start believing every rumor because we are running out of room to make mistakes around the world. The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... You have been wrong on this thread time and time again. You even lost money on it. You took the fake number of dead American and ran with it berating others. Wrong yet again. I don't trust folks like you who don't want me to think for myself or wait for silly things like investigations or for the full picture to emerge just buy the official story (Benghazi much?) That's how we get fun stuff like the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Me I don't trust much I hear or read these days I'm well aware of the manipulations going on. Im objective not emotional like you are. I'm also not fsb gru or any of that other fantasy shit (lol no lmao). Just a sane person asking questions and wanting answers. He wants another war, don't pay attention to him. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:25:52 PM EDT
[#27]
You are a useful idiot to the Russians. Even after they slaughter innocents, you continue your slavish parroting of their lies.
Everyone in this thread and on this site sees this. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:36:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are a useful idiot to the Russians. Even after they slaughter innocents, you continue your slavish parroting of their lies. Everyone in this thread and on this site sees this.  I never said the Russians or the seps did or did not shoot MH17 down. I'd like a proper investigation but the wreckage has been removed (partially) and the sep leader is 'negotiating' over someone else's property, RT claiming an SU25 at 33kft was trailing MH17 (impossible). The circumstantial evidence is damning. So no, not parroting lies unlike you. You are nothing more than a Pravy Sektor provocateur troll, useful idiot for the Candy man and his henchmen
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:42:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never said the Russians or the seps did or did not shoot MH17 down.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You are a useful idiot to the Russians. Even after they slaughter innocents, you continue your slavish parroting of their lies. Everyone in this thread and on this site sees this. I never said the Russians or the seps did or did not shoot MH17 down.
Of course you didn't. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:42:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
. . . . . . the Malaysian airlines was complisant and allowing a government to use their aircraft as a platform for some sort of classified equipment/project. Can you support this assertion? What government? What equipment? What program? Standing by for answers. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 8:20:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One American died. At the time, the latest info was that there were far more. Many of our closest allies lost people. Given THAT info, some here chose to continue to make excuses for the murderers. This includes you. Russia shot down that plane. Russian soldiers. There's no mystery or conspiracy about it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... Really... so much certainty as with the "23 murdered Americans" and cursing everyone that did not buy that? One American died. At the time, the latest info was that there were far more. Many of our closest allies lost people. Given THAT info, some here chose to continue to make excuses for the murderers. This includes you. Well... some folks believed (still believe) the attack at the US Embassy in Benghazi was because of some video. Why not try another stunt and see if it sticks? Russia shot down that plane. Russian soldiers. There's no mystery or conspiracy about it. So, from "23 Americans" we are down to one. Which seems to be a guy who moved to the Netherlands when still a little kid. Holds two passports and likely identified himself as Dutch? Considering that "23 Americans" was the "latest information at that time" and proved fraudulent; what other "latest information" you and others are trying to assert as "the truth"? What other information you currently want everyone to accept will also be exposed as fraud in the future? Furthermore, considering how you and others are so quick to curse anyone who does not agree with you; what credibility do you still bring to the table? Insulting and bashing anyone who does not agree with you makes you no different than the progressive-liberals that are destroying the US and now even promoting an invasion at lot worse than that circus in the Ukraine. We are being invaded. God knows what is coming through the border and will do what. Can you understand that? By the way, point out where I said shooting down the airplane was justified. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 10:34:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, from "23 Americans" we are down to one. Which seems to be a guy who moved to the Netherlands when still a little kid. Holds two passports and likely identified himself as Dutch? Considering that "23 Americans" was the "latest information at that time" and proved fraudulent; what other "latest information" you and others are trying to assert as "the truth"? What other information you currently want everyone to accept will also be exposed as fraud in the future? Furthermore, considering how you and others are so quick to curse anyone who does not agree with you; what credibility do you still bring to the table? Insulting and bashing anyone who does not agree with you makes you no different than the progressive-liberals that are destroying the US and now even promoting an invasion at lot worse than that circus in the Ukraine. We are being invaded. God knows what is coming through the border and will do what. Can you understand that? By the way, point out where I said shooting down the airplane was justified. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Russians did this. Russian soldiers manning a Russian BUK. There is no doubt about this. They bragged about it online, until they realized that the AN-26 they just shot down was actually a Boeing 777. Now, I AM open to the idea that their bragging about it was just a ploy to make it APPEAR as though they shot it down by accident... Really... so much certainty as with the "23 murdered Americans" and cursing everyone that did not buy that? One American died. At the time, the latest info was that there were far more. Many of our closest allies lost people. Given THAT info, some here chose to continue to make excuses for the murderers. This includes you. Well... some folks believed (still believe) the attack at the US Embassy in Benghazi was because of some video. Why not try another stunt and see if it sticks? Russia shot down that plane. Russian soldiers. There's no mystery or conspiracy about it. So, from "23 Americans" we are down to one. Which seems to be a guy who moved to the Netherlands when still a little kid. Holds two passports and likely identified himself as Dutch? Considering that "23 Americans" was the "latest information at that time" and proved fraudulent; what other "latest information" you and others are trying to assert as "the truth"? What other information you currently want everyone to accept will also be exposed as fraud in the future? Furthermore, considering how you and others are so quick to curse anyone who does not agree with you; what credibility do you still bring to the table? Insulting and bashing anyone who does not agree with you makes you no different than the progressive-liberals that are destroying the US and now even promoting an invasion at lot worse than that circus in the Ukraine. We are being invaded. God knows what is coming through the border and will do what. Can you understand that? By the way, point out where I said shooting down the airplane was justified. You have defended the Russians at every step of the way. The number of Americans was simply words. It was the latest info, and it was erroneous. In the light of that info, you sided with the enemy. However, the mountain of data that points to Russia as the culprits is undeniable. I don't care if you agree with me. I just find it disgusting that you agree so much with Putin and Russian propaganda. That you are bending over so backwards to accept every excuse pushed by Russia is grotesque. That you Russophiles so often bring up Bengazi and the Border only reminds us of the Russian propagandists' shotgun approach at spewing distractions. If we ever find ourselves at war with Russia, which side would you support? |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 11:16:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have defended the Russians at every step of the way. The number of Americans was simply words. It was the latest info, and it was erroneous. In the light of that info, you sided with the enemy. However, the mountain of data that points to Russia as the culprits is undeniable. I don't care if you agree with me. I just find it disgusting that you agree so much with Putin and Russian propaganda. That you are bending over so backwards to accept every excuse pushed by Russia is grotesque. That you Russophiles so often bring up Bengazi and the Border only reminds us of the Russian propagandists' shotgun approach at spewing distractions. If we ever find ourselves at war with Russia, which side would you support? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Really... so much certainty as with the "23 murdered Americans" and cursing everyone that did not buy that? One American died. At the time, the latest info was that there were far more. Many of our closest allies lost people. Given THAT info, some here chose to continue to make excuses for the murderers. This includes you. Well... some folks believed (still believe) the attack at the US Embassy in Benghazi was because of some video. Why not try another stunt and see if it sticks? Russia shot down that plane. Russian soldiers. There's no mystery or conspiracy about it. So, from "23 Americans" we are down to one. Which seems to be a guy who moved to the Netherlands when still a little kid. Holds two passports and likely identified himself as Dutch? Considering that "23 Americans" was the "latest information at that time" and proved fraudulent; what other "latest information" you and others are trying to assert as "the truth"? What other information you currently want everyone to accept will also be exposed as fraud in the future? Furthermore, considering how you and others are so quick to curse anyone who does not agree with you; what credibility do you still bring to the table? Insulting and bashing anyone who does not agree with you makes you no different than the progressive-liberals that are destroying the US and now even promoting an invasion at lot worse than that circus in the Ukraine. We are being invaded. God knows what is coming through the border and will do what. Can you understand that? By the way, point out where I said shooting down the airplane was justified. You have defended the Russians at every step of the way. The number of Americans was simply words. It was the latest info, and it was erroneous. In the light of that info, you sided with the enemy. However, the mountain of data that points to Russia as the culprits is undeniable. I don't care if you agree with me. I just find it disgusting that you agree so much with Putin and Russian propaganda. That you are bending over so backwards to accept every excuse pushed by Russia is grotesque. That you Russophiles so often bring up Bengazi and the Border only reminds us of the Russian propagandists' shotgun approach at spewing distractions. If we ever find ourselves at war with Russia, which side would you support? I have not defended the Russians. I have questioned idiotic one-sided blind assertions. There's a big difference. The fact is you now try to downplay what you stated a couple pages ago vomiting that fraudulent propaganda about "several Americans murdered" and insulted several members here who questioned your propaganda. Your "fact" just proved to be another fraud. How many more of your "unquestionable facts" are also frauds? Now you say "the Russians did it". All evidence raised so far points to someone using Russian equipment. Everyone in that frigging place uses Russian equipment. So, this does not prove anything. An idiot claimed to have knocked an airplane down. That's the only evidence pointing to the "rebels", or whatever they are. Furthermore, for you, Benghazi, our home country being invaded and destroyed by someone worse than that Putin freak is clearly less important than the Ukrainian circus. I do not have any doubts about my unconditional allegiance to the US. How about you? Your posts indicate you would side with Ukraine (or whoever is running that circus" against anyone else. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 11:24:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Whatever happened to the 23 Russians captured by Ukraine?
I saw a video that purported to show three of them on YouTube. They had been masquerading as tourists, and certainly looked a bit worse for wear. The captioning was in Cyrillic. Anything official yet? |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 11:37:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Tonight I learned the border is a russophile distraction. Thanks Cincinnatus
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Posted: 7/21/2014 11:39:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have not defended the Russians. I have questioned idiotic one-sided blind assertions. There's a big difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have not defended the Russians. I have questioned idiotic one-sided blind assertions. There's a big difference. The fact is you now try to downplay what you stated a couple pages ago vomiting that fraudulent propaganda about "several Americans murdered" and insulted several members here who questioned your propaganda. Now you say "the Russians did it". All evidence raised so far points to someone using Russian equipment. Everyone in that frigging place uses Russian equipment. So, this does not prove anything. An idiot claimed to have knocked an airplane down. That's the only evidence pointing to the "rebels", or whatever they are. Furthermore, for you, Benghazi, our home country being invaded and destroyed by someone worse than that Putin freak is clearly less important than the Ukrainian circus. I do not have any doubts about my unconditional allegiance to the US. How about you? Your posts indicate you would side with Ukraine (or whoever is running that circus" against anyone else. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 11:42:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tonight I learned the border is a russophile distraction. Thanks Cincinnatus In a conversation about Russia invading Ukraine? Why yes, yes it it. There are plenty of threads about the Border. You only bring it up HERE as a distraction and misdirection. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 11:44:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sure they are. As they furiously repaint the launcher. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...Ukraine is claiming it was shot down by a Buk system used by the rebels. I'm sure they are. As they furiously repaint the launcher. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 11:45:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am wondering if there is a structural problem with the 777 or perhaps Malaysia Airlines is cutting corners on factory approved procedures like AA flight 191. Its plausible it was shot down, but with MH370 missing and this aircraft coming down in a war zone a proper investigation will never happen http://nypost.com/2014/03/12/faa-warned-of-boeing-777s-cracking-flaw/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Been watching the shoot down coverage on Fox News. The Separatists have been changing their story. First, like posted above they were bragging about shooting down a transport plane around the same time the 777 was shot down. Then they said that they were shooting at an Antinov and mistakenly shot down the 777, and now they're saying that didn't shoot anything down. Most reports say it was shot down by a Buk/SA-17 missile that more than likely was provided to the Separatists by Russia. This is what they're saying on Fox so far. I am wondering if there is a structural problem with the 777 or perhaps Malaysia Airlines is cutting corners on factory approved procedures like AA flight 191. Its plausible it was shot down, but with MH370 missing and this aircraft coming down in a war zone a proper investigation will never happen http://nypost.com/2014/03/12/faa-warned-of-boeing-777s-cracking-flaw/ |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:20:17 AM EDT
[#40]
I am really leaning towards the rebels shot it down. The fact they keep changing their story well if it smells like shit and looks likes shit it's shit or in this case bullshit.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:47:07 AM EDT
[#41]
http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=42650&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=7&cHash=c88c903d113416bf762d5c3e4f1c0120#.U835q3-9KSP
The “commander-in-chief” of the “Novorossiya” defense forces (the Russia-supported separatists fighting in eastern Ukraine), Igor Girkin (a.k.a. Strelkov), told journalists recently that prior to March 31, 2013, he had been a colonel in the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB). By his admission, he had participated in conflicts in Transnistria and Yugoslavia as a volunteer, and in Chechnya under contract (Gazeta.ua, July 12). |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 2:10:05 AM EDT
[#42]
Col Steve Russell talking about Ukraine. Watch part 2.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 2:19:15 AM EDT
[#43]
Yes and Borodai and Bezler et al are also FSB and GRU agents,among others. The only people who honestly believe that Girkin completely retired from the FSB in March just to go to Ukraine are his fellow travelers,with a wink and a nudge.
Yes,there are local fighters but the leadership of Novorosiya/Donetsk-Lugansk Peoples Republics are all Russian operatives. The locals are the old drunk guys they've left to loot the plane wreckage... Much like it was a bit too easy to spot the Qatari SF fighting in Libya pretending to be rebels,it's not hard to tell who are professional Russians. I do give points to all the older guys bringing 1980s action movie style back;it's been way too long since camo tshirt vests,doo-rags and sunglasses were cool. Putin gambled that Ukraine would be so cowed by the massing of 40k troops on "exercises" that they would not fight. He then reckoned after they began their offensive that they'd be a bumbling mob that some not very successfully sheep dipped paras and some Ossetian,Armenian,Serbian and Chechen goons could easily deal with in a war on the cheap. I'll say it again,I don't think Putin lets these guys back into Russia as they're not just liabilities now that they shot down the plane but Girkin is a possible rival due to his popularity with the burgeoning ultra nationalists that their media has whipped up. Just a FWIW,the Ukrainians captured the proclaimed defense minister of South Ossetia,the unrecognized by anyone that matters republic they set up after the war with Georgia, yesterday. If you've been looking at pics of the conflict,the BTRs with the white/red/yellow flag were his. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:50:59 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...but Girkin is a possible rival due to his popularity with the burgeoning ultra nationalists that their media has whipped up... You've said that a few times, but I haven't seen it from anywhere but you. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:57:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whatever happened to the 23 Russians captured by Ukraine? I saw a video that purported to show three of them on YouTube. They had been masquerading as tourists, and certainly looked a bit worse for wear. The captioning was in Cyrillic. Anything official yet? 23 seems to be a bit of a magic number. Sort of like the 87 of Ukraine. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:34:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
23 seems to be a bit of a magic number. Sort of like the 87 of Ukraine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whatever happened to the 23 Russians captured by Ukraine? I saw a video that purported to show three of them on YouTube. They had been masquerading as tourists, and certainly looked a bit worse for wear. The captioning was in Cyrillic. Anything official yet? 23 seems to be a bit of a magic number. Sort of like the 87 of Ukraine. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/11/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKBN0FG1A920140711 Ukraine says rebels will pay as missiles kill 23 soldiers http://ukraineinvestigation.com/ukrainian-special-forces-capture-23-russian-saboteurs/ Ukrainian Special Forces Capture 23 Russian Saboteurs
by Petro Zamakis on April 16, 2014 |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:42:28 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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23 seems to be a bit of a magic number. Sort of like the 87 of Ukraine. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/11/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKBN0FG1A920140711 Ukraine says rebels will pay as missiles kill 23 soldiers http://ukraineinvestigation.com/ukrainian-special-forces-capture-23-russian-saboteurs/ Ukrainian Special Forces Capture 23 Russian Saboteurs
by Petro Zamakis on April 16, 2014 And of course: http://www.ibtimes.com/mh17-crash-23-americans-killed-malaysia-airlines-plane-ukraine-reports-say-1631672 ...Interfax quotes an unnamed Ukrainian Interior Ministry official as saying that 23 Americans were among those killed when flight MH17 went down near the city of Donetsk... |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:14:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
] And of course: http://www.ibtimes.com/mh17-crash-23-americans-killed-malaysia-airlines-plane-ukraine-reports-say-1631672 ...Interfax quotes an unnamed Ukrainian Interior Ministry official as saying that 23 Americans were among those killed when flight MH17 went down near the city of Donetsk... All joking aside WTF is that creepy shit? |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:13:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm also not fsb gru or any of that other fantasy shit (lol no lmao). Just a sane person asking questions and wanting answers. Surrrrrrrre. 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:15:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tonight I learned the border is a russophile distraction. Thanks Cincinnatus How does Mehico affect Donetsk? Are the cartels buying SA-11s at gunshows in Arizona? |
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