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Posted: 12/5/2013 4:11:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sadly, it means ALL of those things to different people. That's kind of the problem we're having. Regardless of what the dictionary definition is, anarchy just doesn't mean the same thing to everybody. Maybe we need a new word that's a little more unencumbered by misunderstanding? She's a self-styled anarchist, and a follower of Adam Kokesh, who, along with others of his tribe, are starting a new civil disobedience movement with her as its spokesperson. Apparently, they've cued to the idea that a cute girl makes a better spokesperson than a shady looking guy with questionable contacts. The shitstorm here has evolved from the term "anarchist" and what it means in relation to her message, which seems to be largely to "ignore" unconstitutional laws and for LEO to refuse to follow unconstitutional orders lest they be marked as JBTs and dealt with accordingly. Also, the difference between one man's anarchy and another's. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anarchy does NOT equal: lawlessness, selfishness, chaos, violence, thoughtlessness, rudeness, doing whatever one feels at any time, libtards in guy fawks masks throwing rocks through shoppe windows and demanding bigger government to protect them from corporations. Sadly, it means ALL of those things to different people. That's kind of the problem we're having. Regardless of what the dictionary definition is, anarchy just doesn't mean the same thing to everybody. Maybe we need a new word that's a little more unencumbered by misunderstanding? Quoted: Quoted: What in the unholy fuck is going on in here. it started about some sorta hot chick making some videos now it's about ARFCOM's fucked up views on politics that's just from reading pages 1 and 10....... anyone flushed out who she is? I'm putting money on she's in my neck of the woods and I'd like to sit down over some beers and talk more  She's a self-styled anarchist, and a follower of Adam Kokesh, who, along with others of his tribe, are starting a new civil disobedience movement with her as its spokesperson. Apparently, they've cued to the idea that a cute girl makes a better spokesperson than a shady looking guy with questionable contacts. The shitstorm here has evolved from the term "anarchist" and what it means in relation to her message, which seems to be largely to "ignore" unconstitutional laws and for LEO to refuse to follow unconstitutional orders lest they be marked as JBTs and dealt with accordingly. Also, the difference between one man's anarchy and another's. She's working with Larken Rose, not Adam Kokesh. Larken wanted to get the message out to the average joe. He surmised that using a female would spread the word faster. According to his latest update, it has. It reached 90k views and almost 4k subscribers in under 72 hours, much better then his videos have done. She did do a video supporting Adam Kokesh while he was in jail for racking a shotgun in Washington D.C. which he did to protest infringement of the 2nd Amendment. But that's because Kokesh had asked viewers to make videos. She was just one of those that did. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 4:15:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
marx may have written about a post revolutionary stateless society. But getting there, per his writing, is dependent on empowering a violent revolutionary government to impose the order involuntarily. Of course the dirty little secret of communists is that you never move into the final phase, you never stop securing the revolution from foreigners and counter revolutionaries. Besides being authoritarian, communisim is by it very nature collectivist, as the state or whatever is more important than the individual and it is considered acceptible to sacrifice the individual for the greater good, whether he wants to be sacrificed or not. Anarchism is about the farthest thing possible from communism, both in terms of its value of the individual (the smallest minority) and its permissiveness of the use of force. Anarchism is fundamentally a moral belief that aggression is wrong. Its commandments are: -don't steal people's stuff (or defraud them) -don't assault people -if people are assaulting you or yours, or stealing from you you may use force. These are the basic rules of society, what every kindergartener learns and what we all (should) practice in our private and professional lives. But near universal statist indoctrination adds the following appendix: -Thou shalt NEVER resist the government or its enforcers NO MATTER WHAT they do to you or anyone else. Concepts such as Divine right, social contract, democracy etc are all mental contortiouns made up to resolve the cognative dissonance created by that glaring exception to what is supposed to me a universal moral rule, the non-aggression priciple. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I believe they can. I think I already stated I don't trust Government, My Command team, Civilians, Random folks on the Internet preaching anarchy and "take your guns to the steps of the white house." I look at it all with a Jaundiced eye. You folks with the Somali flags, you are aligning with anarchists in Somalia.... Murdering scum. Or with the folks who flew the Bonnie Blue Flag, folks willing to kill their own country men so they could own other people a little longer. I look real hard at that and really wonder about motivations. In short I've spent my life defending......... What? At best nothing. I've safe guarded you civilians right to piss everything away. Which you have almost completed your goals of enthusiastically pissing everything away. So go strap on your Guy Fawkes mask and throw a chair through a Whole Foods window. Wrong anarchists. Those guys are largely 4chan-fueled socialist/communists. Quoted:Bonnie Blue FlagMarx believed that a stateless society was necessary for human freedom too. Marx believed that the entire world should be the only state. Stateless was in reference to individual nation states. Or so I've always been taught. You were taught wrong. Marx's desired final situation for the world was one where there was no government because there was no exploitation by capital. It's worth noting that he describes capital in the same way that a lot of the Anarcho-Libertarians on this board describe government. marx may have written about a post revolutionary stateless society. But getting there, per his writing, is dependent on empowering a violent revolutionary government to impose the order involuntarily. Of course the dirty little secret of communists is that you never move into the final phase, you never stop securing the revolution from foreigners and counter revolutionaries. Besides being authoritarian, communisim is by it very nature collectivist, as the state or whatever is more important than the individual and it is considered acceptible to sacrifice the individual for the greater good, whether he wants to be sacrificed or not. Anarchism is about the farthest thing possible from communism, both in terms of its value of the individual (the smallest minority) and its permissiveness of the use of force. Anarchism is fundamentally a moral belief that aggression is wrong. Its commandments are: -don't steal people's stuff (or defraud them) -don't assault people -if people are assaulting you or yours, or stealing from you you may use force. These are the basic rules of society, what every kindergartener learns and what we all (should) practice in our private and professional lives. But near universal statist indoctrination adds the following appendix: -Thou shalt NEVER resist the government or its enforcers NO MATTER WHAT they do to you or anyone else. Concepts such as Divine right, social contract, democracy etc are all mental contortiouns made up to resolve the cognative dissonance created by that glaring exception to what is supposed to me a universal moral rule, the non-aggression priciple. The golden rule. Do unto others as you would have done to you. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 4:23:57 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anarchy can only be peaceful if the people have the moral beliefs for it. If not, it will be all war lords etc till one consolidated power enough to be more like a "government." I do NOT think america at large has the moral foundation for it today by any means. It has to be a gradual process, moral development. I think this organic moral development will also occur w/ secessionist movements as people cap authority at lower and lower levels. Partly facilitated by big governments collapsing under their own weight. Tried to find the clip, but no luck. So here's the transcript.  Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 4:24:30 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What in the unholy fuck is going on in here. Bunch of gov plants derailing a thread that asks the cops to behave like employees and not the kings men or probably suffer terminal lead poisoning at some time in the (unknown , uncertain, fairyland future). for their efforts to "serve" and "protect us all into the nearest hospital, court room, or morgue. Depending upon what laws and you "compliance" at least that is what I see. Can't have people seeing that the emperor has no clothes. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 4:39:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bunch of gov plants derailing a thread that asks the cops to behave like employees and not the kings men or probably suffer terminal lead poisoning at some time in the (unknown , uncertain, fairyland future). for their efforts to "serve" and "protect us all into the nearest hospital, court room, or morgue. Depending upon what laws and you "compliance" at least that is what I see. Can't have people seeing that the emperor has no clothes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What in the unholy fuck is going on in here. Bunch of gov plants derailing a thread that asks the cops to behave like employees and not the kings men or probably suffer terminal lead poisoning at some time in the (unknown , uncertain, fairyland future). for their efforts to "serve" and "protect us all into the nearest hospital, court room, or morgue. Depending upon what laws and you "compliance" at least that is what I see. Can't have people seeing that the emperor has no clothes. 
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Posted: 12/5/2013 4:54:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
What in the unholy fuck is going on in here. Bunch of gov plants derailing a thread that asks the cops to behave like employees and not the kings men or probably suffer terminal lead poisoning at some time in the (unknown , uncertain, fairyland future). for their efforts to "serve" and "protect us all into the nearest hospital, court room, or morgue. Depending upon what laws and you "compliance" at least that is what I see. Can't have people seeing that the emperor has no clothes. http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/riker.gif Typical GD fare... disagree with the prevailing wind of MONEYBOMB and you're a "government plant". Nevermind that you all actually agree with 99% of everything else except some chick with big tits on YouTube and who she sides with and the severity of her message. ETA: you morons who keep calling people "government plants" are utterly fucking clueless what when one does actually meet you, you'll miss out. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 4:58:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Too bad they didn't have government to save them.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: marx may have written about a post revolutionary stateless society. But getting there, per his writing, is dependent on empowering a violent revolutionary government to impose the order involuntarily. Of course the dirty little secret of communists is that you never move into the final phase, you never stop securing the revolution from foreigners and counter revolutionaries. Besides being authoritarian, communisim is by it very nature collectivist, as the state or whatever is more important than the individual and it is considered acceptible to sacrifice the individual for the greater good, whether he wants to be sacrificed or not. Anarchism is about the farthest thing possible from communism, both in terms of its value of the individual (the smallest minority) and its permissiveness of the use of force. Anarchism is fundamentally a moral belief that aggression is wrong. Its commandments are: -don't steal people's stuff (or defraud them) -don't assault people -if people are assaulting you or yours, or stealing from you you may use force. These are the basic rules of society, what every kindergartener learns and what we all (should) practice in our private and professional lives. But near universal statist indoctrination adds the following appendix: -Thou shalt NEVER resist the government or its enforcers NO MATTER WHAT they do to you or anyone else. Concepts such as Divine right, social contract, democracy etc are all mental contortiouns made up to resolve the cognative dissonance created by that glaring exception to what is supposed to me a universal moral rule. So what would this stateless society look like? And once you anarchists have torn down the government, how do you keep someone from building it up again? How do you keep those with guile and cunning from picking up all of the Rothbard-toting non-aggression principled enlightened ones and shoving them on a train to Siberia? http://i.imgur.com/QvX8bI8.gif http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA3LzE5L2UxL2RldHJvaXQuOTY2OWYuanBnCnAJdGh1bWIJOTUweDUzNCMKZQlqcGc/1b353504/919/detroit.jpg Ah Fuck, my bad that's Detroit.  Too bad they didn't have government to save them. So do you two only like cats because Hitler had a pet dog? |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 4:59:26 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "non aggression pact"?? No "pact" necessary. Just an understanding: I won't fuck w/ you, but if you attack w/ me I will kill you, mmmmkay. okay, we are having some equivocation here. Anarchy could either mean: -a the political conclusion of the moral philosophy of volunteerism. -a society that never had or has a failed "state." In a tribal civilization, there are enforced hierarchies indeed. They aren't exactly trying to live out the non-aggression principle in a free thinking society. The wilds of some failed/failing latin american state is going to have a power vacuum suddenly filled by opportunists. Anarchy can only be peaceful if the people have the moral beliefs for it. If not, it will be all war lords etc till one consolidated power enough to be more like a "government." I do NOT think america at large has the moral foundation for it today by any means. It has to be a gradual process, moral development. I think this organic moral development will also occur w/ secessionist movements as people cap authority at lower and lower levels. Partly facilitated by big governments collapsing under their own weight. Look at the difference b/t wazierastan and the west. Free trade rather than subsistence farming and raiding, freedom of religion rather than honor killings, slavery, dancing boys etc. There is moral progress required. Perhaps before they could ever develop into a free and stateless society both, they would have to go through a period of national identity first?? I see the next project of the west as the shrinking and subdivision of government till hopefully it disappears entirely. But that has to be an organic process that corresponds to the more thorough spread and adoption of the moral idea of non-aggression. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Originally Posted By right wing nut: calm down nuckler dragger. you are relly abusing text size bro. No anarchist is going to work for another government, cannot, by definition, share ideology w/ any foreign government like a communist, for example. . I am just making the observation that if the foreign invasion boogie man did come and take over, after the smoke settled, my life would be pretty much the same as it is now: A ruling class and their enforcers taking my money, killing me or putting me in a cage if i don't pay up or follow their arbitrary BS rules, and killing me and getting away scott free if I give them the stink eye rather than act grateful they are checking my papers etc. as to the pragmatism of the revolution. You remember that line in the patriot where Mel asks whether it is better to have one tyrant 1000 miles away or 1000 1 mile away? ETA: you clearly know nothing about the non aggression principle, the very foundation of anarchism, if you think that they would be going on shooting sprees & dragging the DMV lady out into the street. All I know about Anarchy is what I've learned in streets across the planet experiencing it's joys and benefits. While non aggression pacts I'm sure are the goals, those that obey those pacts have gasoline soaked tires thrown over their heads and are given their last cigars. "non aggression pact"?? No "pact" necessary. Just an understanding: I won't fuck w/ you, but if you attack w/ me I will kill you, mmmmkay. okay, we are having some equivocation here. Anarchy could either mean: -a the political conclusion of the moral philosophy of volunteerism. -a society that never had or has a failed "state." In a tribal civilization, there are enforced hierarchies indeed. They aren't exactly trying to live out the non-aggression principle in a free thinking society. The wilds of some failed/failing latin american state is going to have a power vacuum suddenly filled by opportunists. Anarchy can only be peaceful if the people have the moral beliefs for it. If not, it will be all war lords etc till one consolidated power enough to be more like a "government." I do NOT think america at large has the moral foundation for it today by any means. It has to be a gradual process, moral development. I think this organic moral development will also occur w/ secessionist movements as people cap authority at lower and lower levels. Partly facilitated by big governments collapsing under their own weight. Look at the difference b/t wazierastan and the west. Free trade rather than subsistence farming and raiding, freedom of religion rather than honor killings, slavery, dancing boys etc. There is moral progress required. Perhaps before they could ever develop into a free and stateless society both, they would have to go through a period of national identity first?? I see the next project of the west as the shrinking and subdivision of government till hopefully it disappears entirely. But that has to be an organic process that corresponds to the more thorough spread and adoption of the moral idea of non-aggression. But you're not a Marxist, double super pinky swear.
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:00:51 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tried to find the clip, but no luck. So here's the transcript. https://d2nh4f9cbhlobh.cloudfront.net/_uploads/galleries/32792/firefly-serenity-movie-mal-nathan-fillion_gallery_primary.jpg Capt. Malcolm Reynolds:Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anarchy can only be peaceful if the people have the moral beliefs for it. If not, it will be all war lords etc till one consolidated power enough to be more like a "government." I do NOT think america at large has the moral foundation for it today by any means. It has to be a gradual process, moral development. I think this organic moral development will also occur w/ secessionist movements as people cap authority at lower and lower levels. Partly facilitated by big governments collapsing under their own weight. Tried to find the clip, but no luck. So here's the transcript. https://d2nh4f9cbhlobh.cloudfront.net/_uploads/galleries/32792/firefly-serenity-movie-mal-nathan-fillion_gallery_primary.jpg Capt. Malcolm Reynolds:Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave. So the people arguing against Anarcho-Libertarianism here have provided real-world examples from the past and the present to support their views. You guys have provided a fictional TV show that was cancelled 10 years ago.
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:02:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Typical GD fare... disagree with the prevailing wind of MONEYBOMB and you're a "government plant". Nevermind that you all actually agree with 99% of everything else except some chick with big tits on YouTube and who she sides with and the severity of her message. ETA: you morons who keep calling people "government plants" are utterly fucking clueless what when one does actually meet you, you'll miss out. Meh, details. 
Switch the "government plant" for "useful idiots" and the flavor of the message remains. Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. That said, you are correct. The biggest failure in this thread is for ARFCOM members to manage their agreement and sow division where there is little difference.
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:04:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, and there doesnt need to be an anarchist mil force really. Is most all thhe people decided to just blow off .gov, and to kill jbts when they came calling, thed run out of jbts real quick., the ruling oligarchy and their enforcers are always, by definition a mminority. A parasite cannot be larger than its host. But the people,will not revolt till they know they can. And they wont know they can till they do. But yes people, most of our individual lives and most of our society is in fact anarchistic. Gov violence does NOT equal order. Tacit enforcement, such as either not helping members of the underground or just informing on them, is more common than you'd like to believe. The successful underground movements of the 20th century like the FLN and the ANC all punished those who did not support them, and often quite brutally. America is no different. There's a reason why all the Loyalists went to Canada.
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:05:59 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, details. Switch the "government plant" for "useful idiots" and the flavor of the message remains. Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. That said, you are correct. The biggest failure in this thread is for ARFCOM members to manage their agreement and sow division where there is little difference. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Typical GD fare... disagree with the prevailing wind of MONEYBOMB and you're a "government plant". Nevermind that you all actually agree with 99% of everything else except some chick with big tits on YouTube and who she sides with and the severity of her message. ETA: you morons who keep calling people "government plants" are utterly fucking clueless what when one does actually meet you, you'll miss out. Meh, details. Switch the "government plant" for "useful idiots" and the flavor of the message remains. Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. That said, you are correct. The biggest failure in this thread is for ARFCOM members to manage their agreement and sow division where there is little difference. Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal.
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:12:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the people arguing against Anarcho-Libertarianism here have provided real-world examples from the past and the present to support their views. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anarchy can only be peaceful if the people have the moral beliefs for it. If not, it will be all war lords etc till one consolidated power enough to be more like a "government." I do NOT think america at large has the moral foundation for it today by any means. It has to be a gradual process, moral development. I think this organic moral development will also occur w/ secessionist movements as people cap authority at lower and lower levels. Partly facilitated by big governments collapsing under their own weight. Tried to find the clip, but no luck. So here's the transcript. https://d2nh4f9cbhlobh.cloudfront.net/_uploads/galleries/32792/firefly-serenity-movie-mal-nathan-fillion_gallery_primary.jpg Capt. Malcolm Reynolds:Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave. So the people arguing against Anarcho-Libertarianism here have provided real-world examples from the past and the present to support their views. You guys have provided a fictional TV show that was cancelled 10 years ago. Do you even know which side of the argument I'm on?   And as far as "us guys" is concerned, I can promise you that I collaborated with no one in posting either that picture or that quote. The similarities between the quote and rightwingnut's statement just struck me the instant that I read it. There are countless examples of "we can make them better" from the socialist/communist ranks, but the browncoat in me struck on that one. Face it, both sides of this argument rely on people being fundamentally better than they are as a whole, and rely on-- somehow-- changing them in order for their particular form of society to work. The statists want better politicians, the anarchists want better citizens, and both are doomed to be disappointed. the best society has proven to be a largely free one with some sort of governing force not too far off, but not really in their faces. Powerful enough, but not too powerful. It's a delicate balancing act, and one that isn't always successful. It's even less successful with a lazy, self-indulgent population with no moral background and a ruling class of barely functional sociopaths. You know, like we're dealing with now. Sorry I can't give you a simple answer. It isn't a simple problem. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:12:58 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal. Wow. I've not read every post in the thread but which so-called liberty minded folks in this thread that are acting like fools for advocating for individual liberty but saying "you will support my view of liberty or you will be hauled off to a gulag"?  (serious question, I need to know who to avoid)
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:17:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bunch of gov plants derailing a thread that asks the cops to behave like employees and not the kings men or probably suffer terminal lead poisoning at some time in the (unknown , uncertain, fairyland future). for their efforts to "serve" and "protect us all into the nearest hospital, court room, or morgue. Depending upon what laws and you "compliance" at least that is what I see. Can't have people seeing that the emperor has no clothes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What in the unholy fuck is going on in here. Bunch of gov plants derailing a thread that asks the cops to behave like employees and not the kings men or probably suffer terminal lead poisoning at some time in the (unknown , uncertain, fairyland future). for their efforts to "serve" and "protect us all into the nearest hospital, court room, or morgue. Depending upon what laws and you "compliance" at least that is what I see. Can't have people seeing that the emperor has no clothes. A couple things..... Because some one doesn't hold to your view on Anarchy, does not make them a government plant. Second thing..... asks the cops to behave like employees and not the kings men or probably suffer terminal lead poisoning at some time in the (unknown , uncertain, fairyland future). Third thing.... for their efforts to "serve" and "protect us all into the nearest hospital, court room, or morgue. Depending upon what laws and you "compliance" As always YMMV |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:18:24 AM EDT
[#16]
So what I have gathered in this thread...
If you are critical of her message, or the nature of the delivery, you are a government plant (with the underlying delusion being that this video is powerful and dangerous). It's fine and dandy to objectify women, and use them as meat billboards, because the message of Freedom transcends such offenses. What else is new? |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:18:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow. I've not read every post in the thread but which so-called liberty minded folks in this thread that are acting like fools for advocating for individual liberty but saying "you will support my view of liberty or you will be hauled off to a gulag"? (serious question, I need to know who to avoid)Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal. Wow. I've not read every post in the thread but which so-called liberty minded folks in this thread that are acting like fools for advocating for individual liberty but saying "you will support my view of liberty or you will be hauled off to a gulag"? (serious question, I need to know who to avoid)I think it's a matter of "if you aren't with us, you're against us." Near as I can tell, the two sides are completely polarized and don't seem able to comprehend anything but a binary solution. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:20:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what I have gathered in this thread... If you are critical of her message, or the nature of the delivery, you are a government plant (with the underlying delusion being that this video is powerful and dangerous). It's fine and dandy to objectify women, and use them as meat billboards, because the message of Freedom transcends such offenses. What else is new? Does this mean that you finally went back and watched the video? |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:24:47 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it's a matter of "if you aren't with us, you're against us." Near as I can tell, the two sides are completely polarized and don't seem able to comprehend anything but a binary solution. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal. Wow. I've not read every post in the thread but which so-called liberty minded folks in this thread that are acting like fools for advocating for individual liberty but saying "you will support my view of liberty or you will be hauled off to a gulag"? (serious question, I need to know who to avoid)
I think it's a matter of "if you aren't with us, you're against us." Near as I can tell, the two sides are completely polarized and don't seem able to comprehend anything but a binary solution. Damn. We are so often our own worst enemy. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:26:01 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow. I've not read every post in the thread but which so-called liberty minded folks in this thread that are acting like fools for advocating for individual liberty but saying "you will support my view of liberty or you will be hauled off to a gulag"? (serious question, I need to know who to avoid)Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal. Wow. I've not read every post in the thread but which so-called liberty minded folks in this thread that are acting like fools for advocating for individual liberty but saying "you will support my view of liberty or you will be hauled off to a gulag"? (serious question, I need to know who to avoid)It's not that they're the ones who would set up a dictatorship, but that they would create a situation where a dictatorship would be far more likely. The Russian Revolution, in which the Bolsheviks and their allies took power, was followed by the Russian Civil War, in which the Bolsheviks turned on their former allies, many of whom were anarchists. The same thing happened among the Republicans in Spain where the Communists within the Popular Front gradually eliminated other factions, primarily made up of anarchists.
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Posted: 12/5/2013 5:33:58 AM EDT
[#21]
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It's not that they're the ones who would set up a dictatorship, but that they would create a situation where a dictatorship would be far more likely. The Russian Revolution, in which the Bolsheviks and their allies took power, was followed by the Russian Civil War, in which the Bolsheviks turned on their former allies, many of whom were anarchists. The same thing happened among the Republicans in Spain where the Communists within the Popular Front gradually eliminated other factions, primarily made up of anarchists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal. Wow. I've not read every post in the thread but which so-called liberty minded folks in this thread that are acting like fools for advocating for individual liberty but saying "you will support my view of liberty or you will be hauled off to a gulag"? (serious question, I need to know who to avoid)
It's not that they're the ones who would set up a dictatorship, but that they would create a situation where a dictatorship would be far more likely. The Russian Revolution, in which the Bolsheviks and their allies took power, was followed by the Russian Civil War, in which the Bolsheviks turned on their former allies, many of whom were anarchists. The same thing happened among the Republicans in Spain where the Communists within the Popular Front gradually eliminated other factions, primarily made up of anarchists. The path this government is on it will end up just the same in a matter of time. I don't see any revolution happening though, just the State clamping down more and more with a population that wont do jack shit about it. Hell some will even cheer it on. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 7:03:45 AM EDT
[#22]
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Damn. We are so often our own worst enemy.
Agree. And its not like the people conversing in here are far apart either. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 7:24:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, she can read a script in front of a camera. Obama does that too. What else can she do?
She can shot an AR-15 and she can talk without a teleprompter. That's more than FBHO can do. I don't know if she can hit anything but I'll give an A for effort! |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 7:41:08 AM EDT
[#24]
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Alright so your saying she isn't an Anarchist? Yes or no will do. So your saying she doesn't work with Kokesh or do shit for him? Yes or no will do. And that at no time Kokesh worked for any arm of the Russian Government...... Media arm perhaps?Yes or no will do. The ATF has never, say sold a bunch of guns to Mexican Cartells with the possible motive of blaming firearms ownership in the US for crime and death in Mexico?Yes or no will do. The same sneeky underhanded deviousness would never be used to draw in Retards who want to "vote from rooftops on JBT's" to a video on Youtube, correct?Yes or no will do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If that's your goal then keep flocking to those dudes who work with RT. So you're back to the Russians? Have you given up on these people being anarchists or BATFE agents or have you finally discovered evidence that it's a joint US/Russian/anarchist op Alright so your saying she isn't an Anarchist? Yes or no will do. So your saying she doesn't work with Kokesh or do shit for him? Yes or no will do. And that at no time Kokesh worked for any arm of the Russian Government...... Media arm perhaps?Yes or no will do. The ATF has never, say sold a bunch of guns to Mexican Cartells with the possible motive of blaming firearms ownership in the US for crime and death in Mexico?Yes or no will do. The same sneeky underhanded deviousness would never be used to draw in Retards who want to "vote from rooftops on JBT's" to a video on Youtube, correct?Yes or no will do. So it is a joint Russian/BATFE/anarchist op. I got it. 
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Posted: 12/5/2013 9:00:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does this mean that you finally went back and watched the video?
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So what I have gathered in this thread... If you are critical of her message, or the nature of the delivery, you are a government plant (with the underlying delusion being that this video is powerful and dangerous). It's fine and dandy to objectify women, and use them as meat billboards, because the message of Freedom transcends such offenses. What else is new? Does this mean that you finally went back and watched the video?
Nope. If it were her first post, and text typed here on the GD, it would not be worth my time. That it comes in the form of video does not change anything; just another anonymous stranger with an opinion. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 9:03:04 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The path this government is on it will end up just the same in a matter of time. I don't see any revolution happening though, just the State clamping down more and more with a population that wont do jack shit about it. Hell some will even cheer it on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal. Wow. I've not read every post in the thread but which so-called liberty minded folks in this thread that are acting like fools for advocating for individual liberty but saying "you will support my view of liberty or you will be hauled off to a gulag"? (serious question, I need to know who to avoid)
It's not that they're the ones who would set up a dictatorship, but that they would create a situation where a dictatorship would be far more likely. The Russian Revolution, in which the Bolsheviks and their allies took power, was followed by the Russian Civil War, in which the Bolsheviks turned on their former allies, many of whom were anarchists. The same thing happened among the Republicans in Spain where the Communists within the Popular Front gradually eliminated other factions, primarily made up of anarchists. The path this government is on it will end up just the same in a matter of time. I don't see any revolution happening though, just the State clamping down more and more with a population that wont do jack shit about it. Hell some will even cheer it on. Many people here have been cheering for that for years. I believe they say something about "boiling frogs." |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 9:17:53 AM EDT
[#27]
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So it is a joint Russian/BATFE/anarchist op. I got it.
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If that's your goal then keep flocking to those dudes who work with RT. So you're back to the Russians? Have you given up on these people being anarchists or BATFE agents or have you finally discovered evidence that it's a joint US/Russian/anarchist op Alright so your saying she isn't an Anarchist? Yes or no will do. So your saying she doesn't work with Kokesh or do shit for him? Yes or no will do. And that at no time Kokesh worked for any arm of the Russian Government...... Media arm perhaps?Yes or no will do. The ATF has never, say sold a bunch of guns to Mexican Cartells with the possible motive of blaming firearms ownership in the US for crime and death in Mexico?Yes or no will do. The same sneeky underhanded deviousness would never be used to draw in Retards who want to "vote from rooftops on JBT's" to a video on Youtube, correct?Yes or no will do. So it is a joint Russian/BATFE/anarchist op. I got it.
So, no answers? Interdasting. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 9:23:54 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many people here have been cheering for that for years. I believe they say something about "boiling frogs." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The path this government is on it will end up just the same in a matter of time. I don't see any revolution happening though, just the State clamping down more and more with a population that wont do jack shit about it. Hell some will even cheer it on. Many people here have been cheering for that for years. I believe they say something about "boiling frogs." Then how do you suggest to turn this around? Can it even be turned around (through political means) or can it only be slowed? I would like your opinion. Also, do you personally wish the government was smaller and less intrusive? |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 10:52:47 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I swear, you can compress the most words into the smallest idea of anyone here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That was obvious whether or not you continued to ramble on in the thread and dodge your previous statements.  I swear, you can compress the most words into the smallest idea of anyone here.
That was good. I Lold |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 11:34:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Good GAWD!!! Are you guys still measuring dicks in here???
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Posted: 12/5/2013 11:36:29 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She rawks!!!  |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 11:37:47 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good GAWD!!! Are you guys still measuring dicks in here??? No it's clear who won placed and showed in the dick category. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 11:41:25 AM EDT
[#33]
Ok who won then???
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Posted: 12/5/2013 11:52:24 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, no answers? Interdasting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If that's your goal then keep flocking to those dudes who work with RT. So you're back to the Russians? Have you given up on these people being anarchists or BATFE agents or have you finally discovered evidence that it's a joint US/Russian/anarchist op Alright so your saying she isn't an Anarchist? Yes or no will do. So your saying she doesn't work with Kokesh or do shit for him? Yes or no will do. And that at no time Kokesh worked for any arm of the Russian Government...... Media arm perhaps?Yes or no will do. The ATF has never, say sold a bunch of guns to Mexican Cartells with the possible motive of blaming firearms ownership in the US for crime and death in Mexico?Yes or no will do. The same sneeky underhanded deviousness would never be used to draw in Retards who want to "vote from rooftops on JBT's" to a video on Youtube, correct?Yes or no will do. So it is a joint Russian/BATFE/anarchist op. I got it.
So, no answers? Interdasting. I don't care about your questions although I was amused at your attempt to play Perry Mason on the innernet. (Here's a hint from someone who has actually conducted cross-examination: It doesn't work outside of a court room. It requires a judge to obtain an answer from the person being examined.)
Once I had confirmation that in your imagination the Russian government, the BATFE and the anarchists were working together on some nefarious plot, I had all the information I needed. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 11:54:47 AM EDT
[#35]
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We don't need anarchy. We need the gov to fear us which they do not and have not for a very long time. Our system of gov works just fine, the assholes working the system are the problem.. We need to replace ALL OF THEM with new members. Members who will follow the COTUS. Once they are run out of DC the new guys might have a different view of things, if not we would have to run them out also. Anarchy is a joke just like thinking that changing only the president is a joke. They all need changed and changed now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What bothers me about her and those of you who agree with her is that your thinking has so alienated "government" from individuals or even groups of individuals that you've forgotten that government, like Madison says, is made up of men who are just as fallible as anyone else, including your average person off the street. What nobody has been able to answer yet is what keeps this mass of popular power that's supposed to hold the government in line from becoming oppressive itself. If government can do evil because it's made up of ordinary men, then what keeps the people, being made up of ordinary men as well, from doing evil? (lots of blather) /snip/. Hitler used gas chambers, anarchist subsist on machetes, starvation and burning tires. Ya'lls fantasy of anarchy will never happen the way you think it will. It never has. We don't need anarchy. We need the gov to fear us which they do not and have not for a very long time. Our system of gov works just fine, the assholes working the system are the problem.. We need to replace ALL OF THEM with new members. Members who will follow the COTUS. Once they are run out of DC the new guys might have a different view of things, if not we would have to run them out also. Anarchy is a joke just like thinking that changing only the president is a joke. They all need changed and changed now. There is truth to this except your overlooking the holdovers from the previous admin. who are appointed and damn near untouchable the way it is now. Fact is people are policy...If you want an agency to have a liberal bias then put liberals on charge of it and let them handpick their staff and that is exactly what you will get. The real problem IMHO is that they have been infiltrating the government for years and are now ensconced in their positions and we have no way to realistically oust them all at the same time. they hide behind unions, fed. regulations, and policy. All that shit would have to change to really clean house. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 12:00:57 PM EDT
[#36]
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Then how do you suggest to turn this around? Can it even be turned around (through political means) or can it only be slowed? I would like your opinion. Also, do you personally wish the government was smaller and less intrusive? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The path this government is on it will end up just the same in a matter of time. I don't see any revolution happening though, just the State clamping down more and more with a population that wont do jack shit about it. Hell some will even cheer it on. Many people here have been cheering for that for years. I believe they say something about "boiling frogs." Then how do you suggest to turn this around? Can it even be turned around (through political means) or can it only be slowed? I would like your opinion. Also, do you personally wish the government was smaller and less intrusive? If only wishing would work. Elect good people and begin moving in the right direction (1 step forward, 2 back). Do what can be done to ensure that when things are rebuilt, people realize that it should not be another welfare state. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 12:05:13 PM EDT
[#37]
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I don't care about your questions although I was amused at your attempt to play Perry Mason on the innernet. (Here's a hint from someone who has actually conducted cross-examination: It doesn't work outside of a court room. It requires a judge to obtain an answer from the person being examined.)
Once I had confirmation that in your imagination the Russian government, the BATFE and the anarchists were working together on some nefarious plot, I had all the information I needed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So you're back to the Russians? Have you given up on these people being anarchists or BATFE agents or have you finally discovered evidence that it's a joint US/Russian/anarchist op Alright so your saying she isn't an Anarchist? Yes or no will do. So your saying she doesn't work with Kokesh or do shit for him? Yes or no will do. And that at no time Kokesh worked for any arm of the Russian Government...... Media arm perhaps?Yes or no will do. The ATF has never, say sold a bunch of guns to Mexican Cartells with the possible motive of blaming firearms ownership in the US for crime and death in Mexico?Yes or no will do. The same sneeky underhanded deviousness would never be used to draw in Retards who want to "vote from rooftops on JBT's" to a video on Youtube, correct?Yes or no will do. So it is a joint Russian/BATFE/anarchist op. I got it.
So, no answers? Interdasting. I don't care about your questions although I was amused at your attempt to play Perry Mason on the innernet. (Here's a hint from someone who has actually conducted cross-examination: It doesn't work outside of a court room. It requires a judge to obtain an answer from the person being examined.)
Once I had confirmation that in your imagination the Russian government, the BATFE and the anarchists were working together on some nefarious plot, I had all the information I needed. sure  A lawyer who can't afford $25 a year
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Posted: 12/5/2013 12:42:02 PM EDT
[#38]
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Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Typical GD fare... disagree with the prevailing wind of MONEYBOMB and you're a "government plant". Nevermind that you all actually agree with 99% of everything else except some chick with big tits on YouTube and who she sides with and the severity of her message. ETA: you morons who keep calling people "government plants" are utterly fucking clueless what when one does actually meet you, you'll miss out. Meh, details.
Switch the "government plant" for "useful idiots" and the flavor of the message remains. Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. That said, you are correct. The biggest failure in this thread is for ARFCOM members to manage their agreement and sow division where there is little difference.
Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal. So your afraid then ?? What's the difference between the title of the official presiding over your demise ?? Or for that matter the difference between PYITA federal prison and Siberia ?? Semantics...you're arguing them. Or is that you are more comfortable being fucked over by the devil you're most familiar with VS the uncertainty of trying to live more in line with what the FF intended...?? |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 1:04:52 PM EDT
[#39]
What some here fail to realize is that the very process they so ardently believe in and are defending has been so perverted by those in power That it only gives the ILLUSION that any form of meaningful change can be wrought thru it anymore. For the status quo folks here....Where the fuck have you been ?? Have you been paying any attention whatsoever ?? When the rules are bothersome they simply change them.....How many parks dept. folks were out in force during the shutdown specifically to keep people away from the very monuments/areas their taxes pay for. How about the senate rules change allowing the dems to pack the various offices as they see fit so long as they maintain their grasp on power, the very action which they are perpetrating designed to insure that continuity of power is maintained since no dissention is allowed.
The country seemed to not want O-care yet here it is, and "you can keep your current ins. policy if you like it", which was a lie and they knew it before they said it. Ass raping under color of law in NM ?? Yep, we got that too, right along with "comply or die". And whatever the fuck you do don't question a goddamned thing when one of the statists falls while oppressing his fellow man or else the pack will fall on you with a ravening fury the likes of which no wolf pack has yet to bear witness to. Two Fuckers in boston bomb a damned foot race and an entire town is under what amounts to martial law and the idiots doing all this stupid shit still don't obtain their objective since a mere citizen has to fucking lead them to it. Yeah, there sure as shit is no shortage of useful idiots in here.... |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 1:13:56 PM EDT
[#40]
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A lawyer who can't afford $25 a year Retired. I wouldn't pay a dime for a membership if I had all the money in the world. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 3:37:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retired. I wouldn't pay a dime for a membership if I had all the money in the world. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A lawyer who can't afford $25 a year Retired. I wouldn't pay a dime for a membership if I had all the money in the world. But...but... you get an avatar.
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Posted: 12/5/2013 3:37:55 PM EDT
[#42]
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Retired. I wouldn't pay a dime for a membership if I had all the money in the world. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A lawyer who can't afford $25 a year Retired. I wouldn't pay a dime for a membership if I had all the money in the world. I'm sure buddy |
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Posted: 12/9/2013 3:10:48 AM EDT
[#43]
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But you're not a Marxist, double super pinky swear. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Originally Posted By right wing nut:
calm down nuckler dragger. you are relly abusing text size bro. No anarchist is going to work for another government, cannot, by definition, share ideology w/ any foreign government like a communist, for example. . I am just making the observation that if the foreign invasion boogie man did come and take over, after the smoke settled, my life would be pretty much the same as it is now: A ruling class and their enforcers taking my money, killing me or putting me in a cage if i don't pay up or follow their arbitrary BS rules, and killing me and getting away scott free if I give them the stink eye rather than act grateful they are checking my papers etc. as to the pragmatism of the revolution. You remember that line in the patriot where Mel asks whether it is better to have one tyrant 1000 miles away or 1000 1 mile away? ETA: you clearly know nothing about the non aggression principle, the very foundation of anarchism, if you think that they would be going on shooting sprees & dragging the DMV lady out into the street. All I know about Anarchy is what I've learned in streets across the planet experiencing it's joys and benefits. While non aggression pacts I'm sure are the goals, those that obey those pacts have gasoline soaked tires thrown over their heads and are given their last cigars. "non aggression pact"?? No "pact" necessary. Just an understanding: I won't fuck w/ you, but if you attack w/ me I will kill you, mmmmkay. okay, we are having some equivocation here. Anarchy could either mean: -a the political conclusion of the moral philosophy of volunteerism. -a society that never had or has a failed "state." In a tribal civilization, there are enforced hierarchies indeed. They aren't exactly trying to live out the non-aggression principle in a free thinking society. The wilds of some failed/failing latin american state is going to have a power vacuum suddenly filled by opportunists. Anarchy can only be peaceful if the people have the moral beliefs for it. If not, it will be all war lords etc till one consolidated power enough to be more like a "government." I do NOT think america at large has the moral foundation for it today by any means. It has to be a gradual process, moral development. I think this organic moral development will also occur w/ secessionist movements as people cap authority at lower and lower levels. Partly facilitated by big governments collapsing under their own weight. Look at the difference b/t wazierastan and the west. Free trade rather than subsistence farming and raiding, freedom of religion rather than honor killings, slavery, dancing boys etc. There is moral progress required. Perhaps before they could ever develop into a free and stateless society both, they would have to go through a period of national identity first?? I see the next project of the west as the shrinking and subdivision of government till hopefully it disappears entirely. But that has to be an organic process that corresponds to the more thorough spread and adoption of the moral idea of non-aggression. But you're not a Marxist, double super pinky swear. Im not saying there should be some enforced statist system, ever. I dont argue that the ends justify the means, that we can make moral exceptions to the non aggression principle for the government, revolutionary or otherwise. Ends justifies the means thinking is what all statists share in common, from communists all the way over to minarchists. Im just speculating whether the very concept of the freedom and rights of the individual would have ever occurred in the minds of western man if the Gradual course of western history that has led to things like broad based free trade, high technology, free inquiry, in the context of a larger national identity rather than being stuck in a tribala clan based identity like in Afghanistan. Im talking about where we are now on the long arc of history, not arguing that we should use force to artificially impose some transitional revolutionary regime on people. Western Man has ethically evolved by gradually expanding to whom he applies moral rules. First is was just tribe or clan members, or of ones caste, Then it was people in the neighboring towns or villages, then everyone from the same ethnic language group, which was part of the concept of national identity, then to people of different races etc. is is reasonable to believe that we might continue to expand the application of our moral principles and apply them to our rulers too. |
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Posted: 12/9/2013 3:24:56 AM EDT
[#44]
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Tried to find the clip, but no luck. So here's the transcript. https://d2nh4f9cbhlobh.cloudfront.net/_uploads/galleries/32792/firefly-serenity-movie-mal-nathan-fillion_gallery_primary.jpg Capt. Malcolm Reynolds:Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anarchy can only be peaceful if the people have the moral beliefs for it. If not, it will be all war lords etc till one consolidated power enough to be more like a "government." I do NOT think america at large has the moral foundation for it today by any means. It has to be a gradual process, moral development. I think this organic moral development will also occur w/ secessionist movements as people cap authority at lower and lower levels. Partly facilitated by big governments collapsing under their own weight. Tried to find the clip, but no luck. So here's the transcript. https://d2nh4f9cbhlobh.cloudfront.net/_uploads/galleries/32792/firefly-serenity-movie-mal-nathan-fillion_gallery_primary.jpg Capt. Malcolm Reynolds:Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave. Not familiar with that tv show or who that gyys is talking about. Sounds like he is talking about statists who want to use force to reform man to their liking??? not sure if you are comparing my statement above in red to whom he speaks of.... Let me point out that i am was not suggesting the use of force to morally reform people. I am suggesting that people use reason and their own good example, and good parenting to gradually spread he belief that there should NOT be people who are given license to break what should be universal moral rules against assault and theft ("government"). |
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Posted: 12/9/2013 3:34:31 AM EDT
[#45]
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It's not that they're the ones who would set up a dictatorship, but that they would create a situation where a dictatorship would be far more likely. The Russian Revolution, in which the Bolsheviks and their allies took power, was followed by the Russian Civil War, in which the Bolsheviks turned on their former allies, many of whom were anarchists. The same thing happened among the Republicans in Spain where the Communists within the Popular Front gradually eliminated other factions, primarily made up of anarchists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Normalcy bias seems to have folks defending that with dampens their liberty, showing that they are afraid to live in the tempestuous sea of liberty. Preferring instead the calm of despotism. Or we don't want to see ourselves and ours shipped off to Siberia by our local People's Commissar for failing to show sufficient revolutionary zeal. Wow. I've not read every post in the thread but which so-called liberty minded folks in this thread that are acting like fools for advocating for individual liberty but saying "you will support my view of liberty or you will be hauled off to a gulag"? (serious question, I need to know who to avoid)
It's not that they're the ones who would set up a dictatorship, but that they would create a situation where a dictatorship would be far more likely. The Russian Revolution, in which the Bolsheviks and their allies took power, was followed by the Russian Civil War, in which the Bolsheviks turned on their former allies, many of whom were anarchists. The same thing happened among the Republicans in Spain where the Communists within the Popular Front gradually eliminated other factions, primarily made up of anarchists. Again, you are talking about a violent uprising, overthrow and establishment a revolutionary government. What i am talking about is the gradually spreading the idea, through argument and justnpeaceful interaction, that putting on a blue uniform and holding a book of politician scribble does not magically make one exempt from moral prohibitions on theft, fraud and assault. This would be similar to how the idea was spread that the "nigroe has a soul" leading to the end of chattle slacery, or that the king is not above the law, and all forms of moral progress that have occured in the west. |
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Posted: 12/9/2013 3:38:42 AM EDT
[#46]
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That works one on one in a dusty street in the old west.... In real life the bad guys work together forming their own "government" then you die after watching your daughters and sons get gangraped You can defeat the bad guys by joining forces with those who share your goals. Now to lessen your chance of getting beat you would have to put someone in "command" for the fight.... but that would be to statist wouldn't it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Originally Posted By right wing nut:
calm down nuckler dragger. you are relly abusing text size bro. No anarchist is going to work for another government, cannot, by definition, share ideology w/ any foreign government like a communist, for example. . I am just making the observation that if the foreign invasion boogie man did come and take over, after the smoke settled, my life would be pretty much the same as it is now: A ruling class and their enforcers taking my money, killing me or putting me in a cage if i don't pay up or follow their arbitrary BS rules, and killing me and getting away scott free if I give them the stink eye rather than act grateful they are checking my papers etc. as to the pragmatism of the revolution. You remember that line in the patriot where Mel asks whether it is better to have one tyrant 1000 miles away or 1000 1 mile away? ETA: you clearly know nothing about the non aggression principle, the very foundation of anarchism, if you think that they would be going on shooting sprees & dragging the DMV lady out into the street. All I know about Anarchy is what I've learned in streets across the planet experiencing it's joys and benefits. While non aggression pacts I'm sure are the goals, those that obey those pacts have gasoline soaked tires thrown over their heads and are given their last cigars. "non aggression pact"?? No "pact" necessary. Just an understanding: I won't fuck w/ you, but if you attack w/ me I will kill you, mmmmkay. /snip/. That works one on one in a dusty street in the old west.... In real life the bad guys work together forming their own "government" then you die after watching your daughters and sons get gangraped You can defeat the bad guys by joining forces with those who share your goals. Now to lessen your chance of getting beat you would have to put someone in "command" for the fight.... but that would be to statist wouldn't it? Everyone that lives in a community has a common interest in providing for the common defense. The natural leaders can lead without being rulers. You don't need harsh military discipline to motivate men to defend their homes and families. That and social pressure, fear of shame, need not to be a social pariah, etc is all the motivation a man needs not do his part to be prepared and show up. ETA: in the mil right? You ever been under command of a guy who had no credibility but authority?
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Posted: 12/9/2013 4:15:41 AM EDT
[#47]
She speaks the truth.
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Posted: 12/9/2013 4:38:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone that lives in a community has a common interest in providing for the common defense. The natural leaders can lead without being rulers. You don't need harsh military discipline to motivate men to defend their homes and families. That and social pressure, fear of shame, need not to be a social pariah, etc is all the motivation a man needs not do his part to be prepared and show up. ETA: in the mil right? You ever been under command of a guy who had no credibility but authority?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Originally Posted By right wing nut:
calm down nuckler dragger. you are relly abusing text size bro. No anarchist is going to work for another government, cannot, by definition, share ideology w/ any foreign government like a communist, for example. . I am just making the observation that if the foreign invasion boogie man did come and take over, after the smoke settled, my life would be pretty much the same as it is now: A ruling class and their enforcers taking my money, killing me or putting me in a cage if i don't pay up or follow their arbitrary BS rules, and killing me and getting away scott free if I give them the stink eye rather than act grateful they are checking my papers etc. as to the pragmatism of the revolution. You remember that line in the patriot where Mel asks whether it is better to have one tyrant 1000 miles away or 1000 1 mile away? ETA: you clearly know nothing about the non aggression principle, the very foundation of anarchism, if you think that they would be going on shooting sprees & dragging the DMV lady out into the street. All I know about Anarchy is what I've learned in streets across the planet experiencing it's joys and benefits. While non aggression pacts I'm sure are the goals, those that obey those pacts have gasoline soaked tires thrown over their heads and are given their last cigars. "non aggression pact"?? No "pact" necessary. Just an understanding: I won't fuck w/ you, but if you attack w/ me I will kill you, mmmmkay. /snip/. That works one on one in a dusty street in the old west.... In real life the bad guys work together forming their own "government" then you die after watching your daughters and sons get gangraped You can defeat the bad guys by joining forces with those who share your goals. Now to lessen your chance of getting beat you would have to put someone in "command" for the fight.... but that would be to statist wouldn't it? Everyone that lives in a community has a common interest in providing for the common defense. The natural leaders can lead without being rulers. You don't need harsh military discipline to motivate men to defend their homes and families. That and social pressure, fear of shame, need not to be a social pariah, etc is all the motivation a man needs not do his part to be prepared and show up. ETA: in the mil right? You ever been under command of a guy who had no credibility but authority?
And there are also followers whose attitudes and lack of discipline can get an entire unit -or community- killed. Have you ever seen communities where some people do not act in ways that furthers the common interests? |
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Posted: 12/9/2013 6:38:17 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone that lives in a community has a common interest in providing for the common defense. The natural leaders can lead without being rulers. You don't need harsh military discipline to motivate men to defend their homes and families. That and social pressure, fear of shame, need not to be a social pariah, etc is all the motivation a man needs not do his part to be prepared and show up. ETA: in the mil right? You ever been under command of a guy who had no credibility but authority?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"non aggression pact"?? No "pact" necessary. Just an understanding: I won't fuck w/ you, but if you attack w/ me I will kill you, mmmmkay. /snip/. That works one on one in a dusty street in the old west.... In real life the bad guys work together forming their own "government" then you die after watching your daughters and sons get gangraped You can defeat the bad guys by joining forces with those who share your goals. Now to lessen your chance of getting beat you would have to put someone in "command" for the fight.... but that would be to statist wouldn't it? Everyone that lives in a community has a common interest in providing for the common defense. The natural leaders can lead without being rulers. You don't need harsh military discipline to motivate men to defend their homes and families. That and social pressure, fear of shame, need not to be a social pariah, etc is all the motivation a man needs not do his part to be prepared and show up. ETA: in the mil right? You ever been under command of a guy who had no credibility but authority?
That part in Red absolutely, however when you have a well trained unit you can bypass them or negate their ability to cause harm. A whole community well motivated to defend their homes will be completely wiped out by a disciplined and drilled adversary that is nominally led. |
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Posted: 12/10/2013 4:03:16 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And there are also followers whose attitudes and lack of discipline can get an entire unit -or community- killed. Have you ever seen communities where some people do not act in ways that furthers the common interests? it only takes most people, not all people to make society work. If one is too much of a trouble to a community, they will get run off or whatever. Probably the closest thing to an anarchic community I can think of is 17-18th centruy frontier america. A post enlightenment western anglo culture that valued personal responsibility/liberty and a relatively advanced economy w/ division of labor and a belief in the superiority of trade and the immorality of theft. Sure there was colonial government, but not so much in the frontiers. There was some circuit judges and a sherrif, but NO police, deputies ONLY temporarily on an as needed basis to deal w/ rustlers or Indian depredations. Men never had to be pressed into service to form a possee. Sure some were slackers, but most valued their reputation their community and their interests to be willing to mount up. Discipline is key, admittedly. It must be part of the community's tradition have any hope of defeating a professional force. yes, there weren't any "public police" until the middle of the 19th centruy. Boston was first, sadly. |
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