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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:50:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Many of them are designed for both mobile and base station operation, and so they use an external power supply (or else they can be wired into a vehicle's battery power), however you can also find plenty of hf rigs with a built-in power supply.
A typical HF rig would draw a couple hundred watts from the AC outlet, although you can find ones that require more power. But unless you are contemplating using both a power amplifier and the rig, a standard 15 amp outlet will probably be more than adequate. It wouldn't hurt to run a separate line from your power panel, but it's not required. For a high-power amplifier, then you might look into running a 220 volt circuit, separate from the power for the rig and accessories. An SWR meter and/or power meter is a good idea, and "a necessity" in most cases. Some rigs have that built in, but I have always found that it's better to use a separate unit (if only because you may want to be monitoring something other than SWR on your rig's meter at the same time that you're monitoring SWR on the external meter). |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:52:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Hey all Howdy! I'm starting the research into an HF Rig and I have a couple questions. Do they all require an external power supply or can they plug straight into the wall? Yes, either a 13.8VDC power supply (external) or a 12V battery (or both), with very few exceptions. If I need an external power supply, would I need to run a 20A + circuit from my sub panel? Nope, unless you are going to be running a big amplifier, your normal wall outlet should work just fine. Is an external antenna tuner required? I'm thinking about This antenna With any endfed antenna (like that one), you are most definitely going to need a tuner. I'd recommend a good external tuner for an endfed antenna. Though, I wouldn't recommend spending $60 on that one. You can build your own for MUCH CHEAPER, or you can buy a better matching transformer (the stuff in the PVC) for that kind of money. The rest is just cheap wire from Lowes. You can measure, can't you?  Jupiter7200 has some GREAT primers on antenna building, including idiot proof (I've tested  ) step-by-step instructions.What about an swr meter, necessity? HF radios mostly all have one built in. You can get an external one for many reasons, but definitely not necessary starting out. I'm interested in CW and SSB. Don't know if that makes a difference. Don't have a radio yet, probably 6 months away from purchase #DayCareRaise Feel free to ask any more questions you have. We'll be glad to help you out. Lots of new guys like myself and a bunch of experienced old hands here who like to help spend your money. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:04:58 AM EDT
[#3]
You WILL eventually get curious over digital and at least experiment with it.
Whatever rig you get should have a USB socket in it so you don't have to use the external boxes which are a nuisance. I went with the Arfcom Official Radio just because it was simple. Find something that will provide adequate room for growth. My biggest mistake was starting with an IC 718 as a home rig. I should have gone straight to an IC 7200. Buy too much power supply. It makes it easier on it and doesn't heat up as much because it doesn't work as hard. ETA the guy that makes those antennas is a good guy. He makes a good antenna and sells it for less than you can buy all the parts for. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:13:09 AM EDT
[#4]
I specifically stayed away from the which radio question. I'm just not informed enough to ask the pertinent questions about them. I'm trying to get something on the air without spending my retirement.
Just so I understand, a 13.8 power supply that's capable of delivering 20-25 amps is okay pulling power from a 110v 15amp circuit? Could someone just explain the math, just for my curiosity.... |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:22:18 AM EDT
[#5]
When you are thinking about wiring, don't forget the ground situation. You want to set up your station area with a good, single point, ground connection point that can be used for radio, computer & related equipment (think panel ground strip or similar). Also plan for tying your external station ground to your house service entrance ground & any antenna connection entries.
If you are going to use a USB connection to a PC, think about putting in some form of surge/static discharge protection between computer & radio, as well as grounding the PC chassis - you can find industrial style hubs that provide both ground connections & ESD over-voltage protection for less than $100 (I found one for $50 that runs off the station 12v supply). I found out the need for this the hard way when the USB interface on my TS-590S took a hit via during bad weather ... Nick |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:26:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just so I understand, a 13.8 power supply that's capable of delivering 20-25 amps is okay pulling power from a 110v 15amp circuit? Could someone just explain the math, just for my curiosity.... Think volt-amps (i.e. watts of power). A 120 watt incandescent bulb draws ballpark 1 amp of 120v current, but would draw ballpark 10 amps of 12v current. Nick |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:31:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just so I understand, a 13.8 power supply that's capable of delivering 20-25 amps is okay pulling power from a 110v 15amp circuit? Could someone just explain the math, just for my curiosity.... A good way to think about this is in terms of the power that you're drawing. (Although you're comparing 115 volt AC power to 13.8 volt DC power, which can complicate the discussion, so I will ignore that distinction for now). Power (in watts) is volts times amperes. So a 115 volt power line that has a load that is drawing 15 amps represents 115 x 15 = approximately 1800 watts. Conversely, a 13.8 volt power supply that is delivering 25 amps to a load represents 13.8 x 25 = about 350 watts. Hope that is clear. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:53:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Hey all I'm starting the research into an HF Rig and I have a couple questions. Do they all require an external power supply or can they plug straight into the wall? Almost all require an external 12VDC power supply, typically with 20A capacity minimum. If I need an external power supply, would I need to run a 20A + circuit from my sub panel? No. Any regular outlet in your house will work unless you've got an awful lot of things plugged into that circuit. 20A x 12V = 240W at the output of the power supply. Figure on another 50W at the input of the power supply due to power supply inefficiency. Call it 300W at the input to the power supply. Any normal AC outlet will supply 1500W. Is an external antenna tuner required? I'm thinking about This antenna With that antenna an external antenna tuner will definitely be required. You can build antennas that don't need an external tuner but most people do not do that. What about an swr meter, necessity? Most but not all radios have an adequate one built in. If for some reason you do not have one built into the radio you are considering then yes, you will need one, as it is the only way to determine if the antenna and antenna tuner are properly performing. I'm interested in CW and SSB. Don't know if that makes a difference. It makes no difference. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:09:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Hey all I'm starting the research into an HF Rig and I have a couple questions. Do they all require an external power supply or can they plug straight into the wall? you can usually find quickly what they require in their 'advertising' If I need an external power supply, would I need to run a 20A + circuit from my sub panel? most likely NOT. 20 amps at 12v is roughly 2 amps at 120v so a 15 amp 'run' should have plenty of overhead Is an external antenna tuner required? I'm thinking about This antenna if the rig you end up with has a built in impedance matchbox [now almost always called an antenna tuner], you probably won't need an external unit for the 'big 5'. 80m,40m,20m,15m,10m [15m can be flaky if your antenna starts at 80m though]. 30/17/12 meters may have you needing a matchbox with a greater range. just look over the 'specs' of the radio you get interested in. the 'little' ones usually don't have room in the cabinet for a matcher. the 'big' ones usually do. What about an swr meter, necessity? kinda goes with what rig you buy. the 'little' ones usually just have an lcd bar graph type. they work just fine but maybe you'd like a swinging needle? the 'big' ones usually have both these days. even if the 'swinging needle' is video representation :) I'm interested in CW and SSB. Don't know if that makes a difference. Don't have a radio yet, probably 6 months away from purchase #DayCareRaise to me, just me, this does make a little difference. built in filters for cw are a big plus. for ssb as well but you can really cut the distraction on cw with even a single if filter. =] 'monkey |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:38:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I'm interested in CW and SSB. Don't know if that makes a difference. I started off with an IC 718 and the CW filters are pretty much non existent. It also needed a box to work digi modes. I bought an IC 7200 and it came with the necessary filters or at least a damned sight better than the IC 718 did.The 7200 also has a USB plung in which means digi is a snap. This isn't a plug for an IC 7200 but it IS a tip. Pick a rig with a USB and CW filters INCLUDED. The price difference between the two was a damned sight more money than buying a digi box and having the CW filters installed etc etc. More often than not you can save a hefty chunk of cash by purchasing what you want to end up with instead of a so-called starter rig. It is like building a match AR. Buy what you want to end up with or you will wind up buying 2 barrels, 2 triggers, 2 sets of sights etc and it will wind up costing you a BUNCH more than if you had bit the bullet. Buy once, cry once. Maple Leaf Studios is a good outfit. If you IM the guy he will actually give you his cell number and talk to you. My first store bought antenna was a Maple Leaf QSO King and I still have and use it. It works my IC 718 which I didn't sell. Don't have a radio yet, probably 6 months away from purchase #DayCareRaise |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 3:56:50 PM EDT
[#11]
I would suggest a 100w class radio
I know a guy who bought a KX3 as his first radio, It's a very nice radio but only 5 watts. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 4:21:18 PM EDT
[#12]
On power supplies, check the advertised ratings carefully. Most "20 Amp" supplies are rated for that intermittent duty, and the continuous rating is about 15 Amps.
CW and SSB are intermittent loads, while digital can be continuous. You should get at least a 25 Amp supply. Since you're looking about six months into the future before you start buying, here's a little something on antennas and propagation to download and peruse at your leisure. Another good source is the ARRL Antenna Book. It changes little from year to year and you'll use it throughout your ham radio career. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 5:08:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Buy once and cry once when it comes to purchasing an HF radio. I still have a soft spot for the Kenwood TS-590, so if I were starting out again I would by another. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 3:14:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would suggest a 100w class radio I know a guy who bought a KX3 as his first radio, It's a very nice radio but only 5 watts. A TS-530SP was / is my first HF radio, but when I needed portability when I was operating overseas, the KX-3 served me very well. KX-3's, when hooked to a 12v (13.8v) PS will produce 12 watts but will heat up fast on digital modes due to an inadequate heat sink. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 4:18:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Thanks for all the replies. Didn't realize that the power requirements were that easy, thought it would be more complicated between the ac and dc. If I look at something along the lines of a 7200, how easy is it to move between a couple locations ( primary residence and family lake cottage ) where I would have an antenna at each place?
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Posted: 11/28/2015 4:23:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for all the replies. Didn't realize that the power requirements were that easy, thought it would be more complicated between the ac and dc. If I look at something along the lines of a 7200, how easy is it to move between a couple locations ( primary residence and family lake cottage ) where I would have an antenna at each place? First you have to call the EPA and file the environmental impact statement. Then you have to get a couple of radio movers from the union hall......... It's a snap. Just unplug everything, box it up and reset it up. Takes a few minutes. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 6:36:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Do they all require an external power supply or can they plug straight into the wall? Nope, but most 100W rigs do. If I need an external power supply, would I need to run a 20A + circuit from my sub panel? Nope. Is an external antenna tuner required? Depends on your antenna I'm thinking about This antenna That will need a tuner. What about an swr meter, necessity? Most rigs will have an SWR meter indication of some kind. I find them non-intuitive and prefer an SWR meter with two needles. It makes it much easier to see the power vs load relationship. Anytime I screw up I see both needles go vertical and think "GOAL! for the other guy." 
I'm interested in CW and SSB. Don't know if that makes a difference. Don't have a radio yet, probably 6 months away from purchase #DayCareRaise The things I would consider MUST HAVES for any HF rig I buy from here on out (not counting sexy old boat-anchors I might 'need') would be: -IF filtering, you need this if you want to be able to ignore nearby stations. On digital modes I consider this an absolute MUST HAVE. -Direct sound card integration to your PC. Don't make me buy some band-aid solution. I almost never touch the dial on my 7200 anymore, preferring to manipulate operating frequency via fldigi, even if I am working SSB. -Must operate by itself if necessary. I don't own any rifles that need my PC, and I don't want a radio that does. 2 is 1, 1 is none. Everything should have a backup mode. Having said all that, the thorn in your side should be getting the BEST antenna your location will allow up in the air. Nothing else is as important. Even a legal limit amp just makes you a very loud deaf person...don't go that route. Antenna gain is the cheapest power you can buy and it works in both directions. You can't work what you can't hear. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 8:32:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for all the replies. Didn't realize that the power requirements were that easy, thought it would be more complicated between the ac and dc. If I look at something along the lines of a 7200, how easy is it to move between a couple locations ( primary residence and family lake cottage ) where I would have an antenna at each place? It's REALLY easy like this. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_22/675680_.html 
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Posted: 11/29/2015 1:14:33 AM EDT
[#19]
There are some radios with built in power supplies, although that design has been much less common as of late than it was in the past.
But just so you are aware, especially if you are looking at used radios, there are some with built in supplies. Often these were higher power radios and many will not operate off of 13.8VDC as they're running finals at a higher voltage. |
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Posted: 11/29/2015 4:08:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Having said all that, the thorn in your side should be getting the BEST antenna your location will allow up in the air. Nothing else is as important. Even a legal limit amp just makes you a very loud deaf person...don't go that route. Antenna gain is the cheapest power you can buy and it works in both directions. You can't work what you can't hear. I think this is where I want to start. I can spend some time getting the antenna right while I figure out what I'm going to buy in a radio, power supply and antenna tuner. So..... I can string a wire between the house and a tree in my yard without too many problems from my HOA (read: will need to be invisible). This is why I was thinking about that end fed in the op, I don't think there's enough room for a dipole. How does one connect from inside the house to the outside antenna? Does the antenna need a separate ground rod from the house ground rod? |
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Posted: 11/29/2015 4:17:51 PM EDT
[#21]
how far from house is furthest tree?
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Posted: 11/29/2015 4:56:13 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 11/29/2015 5:39:22 PM EDT
[#23]
edit - deleted till I figure out a photo uploading solution.
Tree is 23 yds away from the house. Live in a subdivision so we don't have a lot of room. Was thinking about Jupiter7200's OCFD, possibly one section from the tree and the other along the back of the house. That would put about a 115 degree angle between the poles. |
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Posted: 11/29/2015 6:06:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
edit - deleted till I figure out a photo uploading solution. Tree is 23 yds away from the house. Live in a subdivision so we don't have a lot of room. Was thinking about Jupiter7200's OCFD, possibly one section from the tree and the other along the back of the house. That would put about a 115 degree angle between the poles. DXE vertical in the center of the back yard. 
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Posted: 11/30/2015 10:14:30 AM EDT
[#25]
Great input in the threads above, would like to add one thing to the toolbox that you will likely use. MFJ ANALYZER I know it is a little bit of a initial cost but if you ever need to tune an antenna, or check out your setup this is an invaluable tool. If you can pick one up used all the better. I use mine all the time when I have a problem, or troubleshooting something..
Prosise |
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Posted: 11/30/2015 2:16:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A TS-530SP was / is my first HF radio, but when I needed portability when I was operating overseas, the KX-3 served me very well. KX-3's, when hooked to a 12v (13.8v) PS will produce 12 watts but will heat up fast on digital modes due to an inadequate heat sink. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would suggest a 100w class radio I know a guy who bought a KX3 as his first radio, It's a very nice radio but only 5 watts. A TS-530SP was / is my first HF radio, but when I needed portability when I was operating overseas, the KX-3 served me very well. KX-3's, when hooked to a 12v (13.8v) PS will produce 12 watts but will heat up fast on digital modes due to an inadequate heat sink. I love my KX3 but QRP can discourage a new ham |
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Posted: 11/30/2015 6:07:12 PM EDT
[#27]
7200 just went for $650 on QRZ. I think when the 7300 hits the shelves we may see a brief but serious sell-off of 7200's. |
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Posted: 11/30/2015 6:29:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7200 just went for $650 on QRZ. I think when the 7300 hits the shelves we may see a brief but serious sell-off of 7200's. Hmm, I better go ahead and sell my IC 7100 now. |
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Posted: 11/30/2015 7:52:50 PM EDT
[#29]
As a new ham I am really thinking of pulling the plug on the 7300 when it is available.. So temping.. However the ts-590sg receiver is so highly rated that I may have a hard time...
Radio Reviews Prosise |
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Posted: 11/30/2015 10:43:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7200 just went for $650 on QRZ. I think when the 7300 hits the shelves we may see a brief but serious sell-off of 7200's. They aren't remotely similar, other than the name. |
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Posted: 11/30/2015 10:59:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They aren't remotely similar, other than the name. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
7200 just went for $650 on QRZ. I think when the 7300 hits the shelves we may see a brief but serious sell-off of 7200's. They aren't remotely similar, other than the name. I didn't say that...and I know. But the new one will attract users of the old one IMHO. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 12:24:56 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't say that...and I know. But the new one will attract users of the old one IMHO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
7200 just went for $650 on QRZ. I think when the 7300 hits the shelves we may see a brief but serious sell-off of 7200's. They aren't remotely similar, other than the name. I didn't say that...and I know. But the new one will attract users of the old one IMHO. 7300 looks like a great little radio, if the performance is what they say. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 9:35:47 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7200 just went for $650 on QRZ. I think when the 7300 hits the shelves we may see a brief but serious sell-off of 7200's. I doubt that. The IC-7300 is not a replacement or upgrade of the IC-7200. It does not fill the same nitch, which is a good performing, relatively weather resistant, rugged outdoor HF rig. The IC-7300 is more in the same class as the IC-7410, Ten-Tec Eagle, or Kenwood TS-590, that is, an indoor desktop rig. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 10:05:05 AM EDT
[#34]
So after spending way too much time on some of these threads, I'm leaning towards the setup like Jupter7200's emcomm box. Would that be a good choice for a starter hf setup? Also, I get the chassis grounds but is there any rf grounding in the box itself?
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