Starting my home generator project and I need some advice on making my own power cable from the generator to the transfer switch.

Here's my proposed setup:  

Load center is in the attached garage near the front of the house.
Transfer switch will be installed beside the load center.
Outside covered power inlet box will be installed 44' away on the back of the house inside the privacy fence perimeter.
Generator enclosure is another 35' back from the house still inside the privacy fence perimeter.



I have seen these Reliance 40' power cables, but I'd need (2) to get the length I require.  And at $150/EA, there has to be a more cost effective DIY alternative.  I've read a couple of places here that 10/4 SEOW cable has been used.  Anyone have a good source for this, or any other ideas?

Go to Lowes or Home Depot or ? where they sell extra heavy duty extension cords.  I recall I bought a 100' #6ga cord for about $60 not too long ago.  I then bought the correct plug ends and put it all together myself.  Good luck.

You'll need to upsize the cable considerably for a run that long.  There are tables on the internet to size up a long run.

Ops

Howdy, electrician here.

How do you plan on running the cable from the transfer switch to the inlet on the back of the house?  Thru the house?  

Second question, you said "generator enclosure", I assume this is a permanent position?  If so, why do you want to put the inlet on the back of your house?  Why not run the wiring all the way to the generator enclosure?

Third question, what size generator?

No shit, run a dedicated line into the house from the genny and put in a cutover switch.

 
I'm ready to buy all the equipment for this now, but still have these details to work out, so I appreciate the constructive criticism.

Ok, running cable under your siding isn't going to fly.  You'd be better off running Romex thru your house to the back OR bring it directly outside behind the panel and run it in the ground (PVC conduit and wire is referred, but you can use direct burial cable).

If your plan is to run the Generator in the shed, you can forgo the expensive inlet and generator cable and just run the wiring underground directly to the enclosure.  In the enclosure you can use a simple $2 junction box and transition to a short piece of cord with a twistlock plug end on it.

Use 8-3 with ground all around, the short cord can be 10-4 SO.

I'm assuming thats 10/4 cord.  McMaster (www.mcmaster.com) has 10/4 SOOW for $2.18/ft or 8/4 for 6.14/ft.  Search for "service cord"

Were it me, I'd probally tie the neutral and ground together and run 8/3 (4.89/ft) if I needed the larger guage (either for ampacity or longer runs).  Our standard sucide cords at work are 6/3 for  bigger generators, and 10/4 for smaller ones.  

If you stamped a power company logo on the generator, it would be legal (under the NESC) to tie the ground and neutrals together.  Technically you shouldn't on a home generator.  It is clearly  a code violation to leave the generator hooked up like this (since the Neutral-ground bond is still there when the generator is off.

I have a30' and a  70' 6/3 extension cable for my welder- I shuddered to see the price of 7/66/ft.

ETA:
Just saw the drawing- I'd run cable (Al is cheap, if you don't mind the bigger size, and you spend the time to terminate it right.) from the Xfer switch to the junction box, and use SO cord to the genny.  I'd oversize the aluminum, and make the SO cord just big/long enough. 10 ga is good for 30A (7200 kVA running)

We need to know the wattage of your genny to make any meaningful recommendations.

Whoops, there it is...

#6 Aluminium burial service entrance cable might be cheapest way.

Maybe lay it on the ground when you need to use the genny. Put a dryer plug/recept on it, probably be under-rated but might work in a pinch.

I wonder if a 10-4 pigtail is going to handle 5kw each leg?  Doubt it. Double some up.

Progress update.

• Bought 50' of 8/4 SOOW power cable for the run from the power inlet box to the generator shed site.  Run is not that long, more like 35'.


• Bought a Reliance Controls 31410CRK Pro/Tran 10-Circuit 30 Amp Generator Transfer Switch Kit.


• Planning on using 8/3 with ground UF-B direct bury wire from transfer switch to power inlet box on back wall of house.

Here's another question I have for those who have already done this:  If I want to power some circuits in my house with a smaller generator(s), like a set of EU2000's, can I safely build a L5-30P to L14-30C adapter?  I know I won't be able to power any 240V circuits like I could with a larger genny.  The power inlet box I bought has the L14-30P and the EU2000's have the L5-30C.

a little late but run THHN wire from panel to panel and use cord only to connect the generator to the outside panel.

RIF,

its early

a 35 ft run I would bury it to the outside panel and still do basically the same to keep 35ft of exposed cord protected.

Needed some 16/9 SOW or similar wire a few months ago and there are good deals on eBay.

Pics help me explain my ideas a little better.  








I wanted to be able to just wind up the cable from the power inlet box to the generator(s) when not in use and not have to bury anyone anything else in the back yard.  

I am NOT an electrician (I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express recently) but I think you should be able to do that but you will only power half of the circuits since on the L14-30 there are 2 hot, each feeding every other circuit on the panel.  By connecting the L5-30  to the L14-30  you can only feed one hot, a ground and the neutral.  I'm looking to possibly do the same thing with my 800w HF gennie.  I have an L14-30 to 2- 5-20 adapter.  By plugging in to either one of 5-20r I should be able to 1 or 2 circuits as long as they are both on the same buss.

you are reinventing the wheel here.
loose all that over the swingset and through the woods wiring and set up a genny box next to the house and use a short cable to the power inlet box, or just leave the genny in there all the time and hardwire the whole deal.

Thanks for the feedback, really.
But, I want to put the generators further away from the house and street in an enclosed shed mainly for the sound reduction and for having a secure storage area for fuel.  Being able to wind up the power cable from the power inlet box and take it to another location if needed just seems like a nice option to keep.

I don't know why you don't just go underground all the way back to the little generator shed with the inlet, why put it on the house and use cable strapped to a swingset??

it does seem like a good idea.   you need to mock up the box you want, start your genny and  listen to how loud it is at the swingset, then build one up by the house and see.  from the street, there will not be a difference.  you might notice inside the home, but i wouldnt be running at night anyway.  I'd want my fuel in a garden shed as far from the house as possible and not stored with the genny. BTW, if you take the power cord somewhere else, will that location also have the the same hook-ups? be advised, the cord you want to use is very heavy.   Bro, you have a good idea with the shed, the location doesnt seem ideal.

OK...I admit that sounds like a better, cleaner install.  I already bought the 8/4 SOOW cable, but I can find another use for that.
Re-evaluating my plan.
Thanks guys for the help.  

Idea redux...
Just finished trenching for ham radio Station Grounding / Lightning Protection Pic Thread in the other forum.  Seems like an ideal pathway...

Well, I did say to do it that way long before you bought the cord

I don't know much about HAM radio, but I definitely wouldn't want to run electricity that close to antenna cable.

The wire antenna is up in the trees behind the house.  Shielded coax is inside 2" PVC buried in the trench about 18" deep.

I would still keep power away from it.

turn the swing set around so the box is closer to the house? seriously, i would build a large "dog house" closer to the house for the genny and fuel storage. i would NOT store the fuel and genny in the same enclosure. split the "dog house" in half and protect one side for fuel storage by using either metal or at least fireproof drywall board. this is my plan once we get the house built. there will be 2 of these boxes, one for the genny and the other for a battery bank and inverter.

BigDaddy0004,
i have pretty much the exact same setup as you are proposing.  the only real difference is that my generator conduit run ends at my detached workshop, where on the slab out front i run either a small inverter generator (2KW EU2000i) for single phase power and light loads, or my PTO-driven 10KW generator for bigger loads and most importantly for split phase 240Vac which powers the well pump.  

determine first how big of a total load you will need (incl startup/inrush), how many circuits you need to power via the transfer switch, and then go from there.  

i have a couple of hints ––

1) make REALLY sure that you have enough wiring for one continuous run.  i know the heavy gauge wire is expensive, but butt-joining it 6 feet from where you needed to terminate it would be a pain in the ass.  i don't know how i ended up where i did even after adding some "extra" to my well-calculated "with margin" overall length but ${MY_GOD} looked after me and i wound up with only about 2 feet extra on each end.
2) per NEC you can not run high voltage wiring and low voltage wiring in the same conduit (aka raceway).  if you are going to tie the generator enclosure into your home alarm system, for example, you need to run a separate 1/2" conduit or whatever.  you may also want to put a DC powered light in the generator enclosure, so you can start/refuel at night etc.  again, that must be run in a separate low voltage-only conduit, but could be the same as the alarm system loop.
3) per NEC obey the conduit fill requirements (typ. 40% for THWN-2 in a Schedule 40 PVC conduit).  there are online calculators to do this for you.  note you must use THWN or THWN-2, not THHN, for wet applications (a buried conduit is classed as exactly that).
4) also note the burial depth, 18" for conduit.
5) you can not run multiconductor cable through conduit, only individual wires.  so you must get 4 lengths of 8AWG (or whatever your current and voltage drop requirements dictate) THWN/THWN-2 –– one in white, one in black, one in red, and one in green.  per NEC you can use 10AWG green for up to a 50A circuit.   in some cases it will be cheaper to get a longer length of black, and cut it in two; this is permissible but put red tape (aka phasing tape) at the ends of one length of black to designate it as the second of the two phases.
6) a wire pull (aka fish tape) and some Clear Glide are your friends.  get the entire run of conduit installed and glued up, let it dry, and then pull the wires.

ps:
somewhere around here i have the name of the online place you can get the Reliance transfer switches etc at near distributor cost.  they drop ship direct from Reliance to you and it's cheap all the way around.  PM me a reminder if i don't get back to editing this post.

ar-jedi

PTO generator overall view


PTO generator outlet side


PTO generator meter side


generator connecting cable and Reliance 50A 240Vac inlet.


start of work conduit from workshop to house


conduit from workshop to house continued


conduit LB's mounted on basement wall (see down and right from hose sillcock)


six circuit Reliance transfer switch mounted in place next to main breaker panel


transfer switch wiring in progress


wiring complete

Ha, I shouldn't be surprised, I guess!  Is there anything you haven't done?  Nice setup...really.  
Thanks regarding the Reliance link offer, but it's already on the way to my QTH.  Ordering (2) EU2000's from Wise Sales this week.

ar-jedi, out of curiosity, why did you install the inlet inside the building?  Also, what's in the third pipe?  I see power, Cat5, and one other pipe, what didn't you want to run with the Cat5?


BTW, I like the grounds up

do you like your Tiger Power?.....how many hours do you have on it?.....We now have one at the BOL.....but haven't ran it much yet.

They make a dog crate that fits like it was made for it.....I think it came from tractor supply co..

contact "J.T" at
http://www.dale-electric.com/


for reference, mid-last year:
Reliance Q510CE was $410.47 drop shipped to your doorstep anywhere in CONUS.
Reliance Q506CE was $292.32 + $15.00 CONUS shipping.

n.b.
"E" series units have the digital voltage/power meters.

ar-jedi

i have a pair of carriage doors which open out onto a finished apron; i can run either the little honda or the tractor powered PTO generator out on the apron, and connect the 25' cable to it.  


the third is conduit leading to an outdoor (GFCI) outlet powered from the workshop feed.  that outlet also powers a programmable low voltage lighting controller.  the steps leading down to the workshop, for example, have adjacent lighting on until around 11pm so you don't fall on your head coming/going.  there is also some accent lighting on the same low voltage loop. please pardon the quality of the night photos below.  


ask 10 people, and you'll get 11 opinions about this subject.  

ar-jedi







––––––––

the generator works fine, i only have about 10 hours on it and the previous owner told me he had about 40 hours on it.  so it's pretty new for a unit manufactured in 2007.  i don't really have a huge load to stress it though –– my little diesel BX1860 puts out 18HP at the crank and 14HP at the hydraulic PTO, which gives a conservative 7KW total continuous output.  the inertia of the larger rotor helps with starting heavy loads, such as the 220ft deep well that i have, which has a 1.5HP 240Vac submersible at the business end.   the tractor/generator combo have no difficulty when presented with starting this motor, so the setup fits my needs fine.  i don't plan to use the PTO-driven generator for summer A/C or anything like that, it's mainly used "as needed" to keep the water flowing during a power outage.  otherwise, the little EU2000i is quieter and sips fuel keeping the fridge cold.

i ultimately built a wheeled carriage for the PTO generator (see below), so that it was easy to move around either the workshop or the garage, wherever i decided to store it.

ar-jedi

I see, nice setup you got there.

FWIW, I noticed this above:  "5) you can not run multiconductor cable through conduit".   You are allowed to run cable in pipe.

i'm not in the trade, but can you provide an example of when/where you might do this, and what materials are typically involved?

thanks,
ar-jedi

It's not optimal, and derating could become a factor.  But it is perfectly legal to put UF in PVC if you had the UF already.  Just like sleeving romex thru EMT in an exposed area instead of boxing it and switching to THHN.  

However, I think the OP was actually looking to bury bare UF anyway, he didn't mention running pipe.


The third pipe that I was talking about earlier actualluy looks like it's got a piece of UF coming out of the box.  That is going to the GFI that you mentioned earlier?

understood.


OP is a loony.    

(j/k, we are buds, he is a good guy and he has a cool dog)


yes, correct, good observation.  the PVC conduit is there just to get the UF down through the workshop slab and out into the world.  about 15' away i come back up using another stub of PVC conduit and into the GFCI mounted to the retaining wall.  so am just using the conduit in short lengths as protection for the UF cable as it comes through the slab and such.

ar-jedi

Gotcha, makes sense

BTW, you have a lot of knowledge of the electrical code for someone not in the trade.  I've seen your posts in other threads, very good info.

Not that many people here care about doing these things safely and correctly, but code does not permit you to run cord for this kind of application. NM or PVC are probably your simplest choices. 40 feet is not real far. Voltage drop is unlikely to be an issue if the wire is sized correctly in the first place.

Generators usually have the ground and neutral bonded together at generator. That is Ok but you need to make sure the transfer switch can deal with that problem properly. You are only permitted this bond at one point and right now it is probably a green screw in your panelboard that goes through the neutral bar into the skin of the panelboard.

All recommendations have been code compliant.
 Why not?  Please cite the article that his idea was breaking.
 In what instance would he have the choice of NM or PVC??
 Voltage drop is not an issue at any length if the wire is sized correctly.

• So, it's ok to direct bury UF, and it's ok to put UF in PVC?  Is one preferrable over the other?  I will route it away from the ham radio antenna coax as suggested, also.



• New Honda EU2000iA and EU2000iA Companion plus parallel cables on the way from Wise Sales.



• The Dr. at the Loony Bin said that as long as I keep taking my medicine, I'm not technically Loony.



• The dog sends her best regards.
 

Well, there isn't much of a reason to put UF in pipe, it's expensive to do it that way.  Your choices are either to direct bury UF or run PVC and install separate conductors in it.  Running PVC is a better idea, it's upgradeable and will last longer.  FWIW, last week I dug up a customer's front lawn trying to find the fault in the UF that was buried out to her lamppost, the work was NOT cheap.

Are you sure you are going to benefit from the Companion?  It's $100 more, correct?  I personally don't see the point unless you need that style receptacle, and even then, you can make the cord up yourself for cheaper.

That's the same reason I buried conduit for the ham radio antenna coax.  Kinda suspected that, might as well do it the right way.

The question of whether to get 1 EU2000 and 1 Companion, or 2 EU2000's is something I tried to research before I bought them.  There seems to be opinions in favor of each combination.  So I read what I could find on the topic, and finally pretty much flipped a coin.

less digging.  24" minimum burial depth for UF, 18" for wire in PVC conduit.  
(assuming a non-GFI protected circuit, and it's not going under an area with vehicle traffic)

ar-jedi

or bury IMC 6"

BigDaddy0004, even with (2) 2000i's, you still will only have 120V.  If you use the pair of 2000i's to power your house, you are going to have to make up a special cord just for them, on the inlet end of this cord you will need to put a jumper between the two hot prongs in order to get power to both legs of your house.  This still won't give you 240V.  And remember, this cord is for use with the (2) 2000i's ONLY, you can't use it for anything else since it has the jumper in it.  If you try to use it with a 240V generator, it will short out and possibly damage the alternator.  The good thing is that it will have the 120V receptacle on the other end that won't fit into a 240V source, but it's still something to be aware of if you go changing plug ends.

Power cables and swingsets don't go together!!!

Tradesman,
Understood about the 2 small Hondas not being able to supply 240V.  That was never my intention.  They are, as ar-jedi said, for light power, single phase loads only.  I'd leave the 240V load (Electric Water Heater @ 240V, 4500W ) for a larger 7KW / 9KW generator.  Also understood about the special jumper only to be used with the small generator(s) and 120V... L5-30P to L14-30C I believe.  The Honda EU2000iA has been on my short list for a while for use as a remote power source for my Ham Radios in the field.  Adapting them for the home has just come up lately with a renewed interest in prepping.

I already admitted that a buried conduit and wires was a better, cleaner install idea.  And I wasn't going to have live cables strung over it while the kids were swinging anyway... they'd be on guard duty with the ARs and shotguns.  

Yes, exactly.  And remember to use #10 for the cord.  #8 costs more, is harder to work with, and won't give you any benefit at that length.  Hell, you're fine using #10 wire for the run between the panel and the inlet as well.