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Posted: 8/23/2010 6:44:14 AM EDT
OK folks, I'm getting serious about this, and am ready to spend my hard-earned $$$ on an effective, no-nonsense, station grounding and lightning protection system. I've collected a ton of info from Ham Radio 101, archived threads, and other sites on the subject. But I have not found many photos of the systems themselves. My requirements are station grounding for everything in the shack and lightning protection for the Carolina Windom antenna I have in the trees behind our home. They say pics are worth a thousand words. "Show Me Your....PICS!"
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Posted: 8/23/2010 7:51:54 AM EDT
[#1]
What's important is what's in the ground.
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Posted: 8/23/2010 7:58:53 AM EDT
[#2]
tag
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Posted: 8/23/2010 8:24:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
What's important is what's in the ground. Trenching in the coax this week, so I was thinking multiple (4 or 5) six foot copper rods connected with heavy gauge copper wire. 
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Posted: 8/23/2010 8:30:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
What's important is what's in the ground. +1 and how you route to it... |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 8:36:44 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's important is what's in the ground. +1 and how you route to it... As in multiple same-length conductors from all components going to the grounding block, and then a single heavy conductor going outside to the multiple ground rods? Does the station ground just lay in the trench for the coax, or is it connected to the same ground rods the antenna coax is grounded to? I'm confused on this point. |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 9:23:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Copper strap like this between your surge protector(s) and ground rod(s) is better than heavy wire. Wide conductors have much less inductance than round ones which lowers the effective resistance to high frequency AC like lightning.
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Posted: 8/23/2010 9:36:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Copper strap like this between your surge protector(s) and ground rod(s) is better than heavy wire. Wide conductors have much less inductance than round ones which lowers the effective resistance to high frequency AC like lightning. I saw those wide straps and that's what I was referring to when I said multiple same length conductors to the grounding point in the shack. Are you saying another, longer wide strap from the shack to the ground rods in the coax trench? |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 9:56:39 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Copper strap like this between your surge protector(s) and ground rod(s) is better than heavy wire. Wide conductors have much less inductance than round ones which lowers the effective resistance to high frequency AC like lightning. I'm curious how much more surface area is in a 1.5" piece of copper strap compared to a stranded 4 ga wire. Or does it not work that way? |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 9:56:55 AM EDT
[#9]
From the single-point ground in your shack to the ground rod(s).
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Posted: 8/23/2010 10:14:36 AM EDT
[#10]
I used the same ICE arrestors. I like these because they are DC grounded so they bleed of static buildup typical with long wires and verticals.
I drove a ground rod directly outside where the cable would enter the house. On the ground rod I mounted an aluminum plate. Would have loved to had a copper plate ($$$). On this plate I mounted my 4 ICE arrestors so the cable connections were horizontal ( less chance of water contamination) in a vertical arrangement. Also from this plate I ran a #6 solid copper ground wire to the inside. On the end of the ground wire inside the shack I mounted a grounding bus bar just like used in a typical electrical panel. All my equipment grounds connect to this one point. NO DAISY CHAINING GROUNDS! It is important that each ground go A to B and not connect to another piece of equipment. Also those ICE arrestors are not water tight. So I used a small plastic trash can as a cover. I always disconnect from the house side of the grounding plate leaving the antennas connected and protected from attracting lightning. I do need to take some pics of my setup. Easy to make and very safe. We recently had the floors re-done so no more coax up through the floor. I am going to use a MFJ window feed through. Then my disconnect point will inside the house. |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 10:17:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: +1 when mounting separately For long runs from grounding point to equipment it maybe necessary to run braided wire to lower the inductance. RF burns are nasty.Copper strap like this between your surge protector(s) and ground rod(s) is better than heavy wire. Wide conductors have much less inductance than round ones which lowers the effective resistance to high frequency AC like lightning. |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 12:19:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Copper strap like this between your surge protector(s) and ground rod(s) is better than heavy wire. Wide conductors have much less inductance than round ones which lowers the effective resistance to high frequency AC like lightning. I'm curious how much more surface area is in a 1.5" piece of copper strap compared to a stranded 4 ga wire. Or does it not work that way? I think it's actually cross section instead of surface area, but you've got the right idea. The farther apart the electrons in the lightining current can get from each other in the condductor the more easily they can flow. From Wikipedia, 4 gauge wire has a diameter of .2043 inches. A circle with that diameter has a circumference of .642 inches which represents the wire's cross section. A flat copper strap 1.5 inches wide and .022 inches in thickness has a cross section of 3.044 inches or almost five times as much. |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 2:27:16 PM EDT
[#13]
I think I'm beginning to understand.
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Posted: 8/23/2010 4:16:17 PM EDT
[#14]
A couple of things...
If you're connecting your arrestor to your ground rods outside, close to the ground (dirt), I would connect the single point ground in your shack to your ground rods separately. Also, consider using the arrestor's mounting bracket as the connection to the ground rods, it will have greater area than using lugs on the grounding bolts. Also, rather than running ground rods along your trench, is it possible to place them near the house, in a star configuration? You want to make the connection between your arrestor and your ground rods and your single point ground and the ground rods as short as possible. Hopefully the diagram below makes sense. 
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Posted: 8/23/2010 4:29:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
... for the Carolina Windom antenna I have in the trees behind our home. (The proper reply to this is... ) What antenna? |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 4:50:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
A couple of things... If you're connecting your arrestor to your ground rods outside, close to the ground (dirt), I would connect the single point ground in your shack to your ground rods separately. Also, consider using the arrestor's mounting bracket as the connection to the ground rods, it will have greater area than using lugs on the grounding bolts. Also, rather than running ground rods along your trench, is it possible to place them near the house, in a star configuration? You want to make the connection between your arrestor and your ground rods and your single point ground and the ground rods as short as possible. Hopefully the diagram below makes sense. http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ALKVA/StationGround.jpg Sure, to keep the lengths as short as possible, I could do it in a star configuration. Good idea! And the diagram makes sense to me. That's what I hoped this thread would generate, visual representations of all the theory I've read and that's rattling around in my head. I'll take pics along the way for reference, and I invite others to share pics of their systems. 
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Posted: 8/23/2010 5:02:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
... for the Carolina Windom antenna I have in the trees behind our home. (The proper reply to this is... ) What antenna? Cloaking Device Engaged, petaQ!*
* petaQ, excl.: Epithet; similar to "bastard" or "asshole." Throw that petaQ out. |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 5:05:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Not only is there no antenna.... there isn't any conduit either!!!
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Posted: 8/23/2010 6:23:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I think I'm beginning to understand. i think you are past the beginning stage. 1) the I.C.E. units are GTG. 2) keep the ground(s) SHORT and FAT. 3) check also the NEC and/or your local building codes. for example, the LB (aka "condulet", aka conduit pull elbow) may need to result in the conduit entering the house 18" above the exterior finished grade. while not strictly an electrical safety issue in this case, an LB mounted a couple of inches above grade sticks out like a sore thumb, and plus you'll forever trip over it. if in doubt, mount the LB at the same height as any others on the structure. that way it looks like it was always there. 4) below the LB, you can use a large plastic electrical box with watertight cover for mounting the protectors. using a couple of fittings, it can be integrated into your conduit riser. one big fitting on top, one big and one small on bottom, protectors mounted into the box on the copper backplate, ground leaves through bottom fitting. you'll need a hole saw on the frontispiece of your drill to get the big fittings in place. 5) once you are done pulling the coax, put some "duct seal" at the ends of the conduit. duct seal will at least keep any bugs from using the conduit as a ... wait for it ... here it comes ... conduit into the house. duct seal is in the electrical or plumbing aisle at Home Depot or Lowes. it looks like a brick of play-doh. you can pull it back out later on (to add yet more coax, duh!) without too much of a problem. ps you can get the stuff pictured below right next to where you got the conduit, at Home Depot or Lowes. you can also get copper-plated steel grounding rods in the same aisle. ar-jedi 
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Posted: 8/24/2010 12:05:44 AM EDT
[#20]
There's one more thing, which I forgot to mention before. The newly-installed grounding system for your ham shack MUST be connected to your house's AC power grounding system. The two grounding systems MUST be at the same electrical potential at all times. You don't need to use copper strap for this however, regular wire (>= 6 gauge) will work. Also it's best if the interconnecting wire is run outside the house.
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Posted: 8/24/2010 2:33:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
There's one more thing, which I forgot to mention before. The newly-installed grounding system for your ham shack MUST be connected to your house's AC power grounding system. The two grounding systems MUST be at the same electrical potential at all times. You don't need to use copper strap for this however, regular wire (>= 6 gauge) will work. Also it's best if the interconnecting wire is run outside the house. That seems to be opposite from this statement in Ham Radio 101, unless your talking about separating the station grounding from the antenna grounding systems completely. Quoted:
i would not interconnect your antenna system with the house grounding system. i say this for two reasons... one, your antenna system is an attractive lightning target (even a nearby strike is going to couple thousands of volts into the antenna). this is not voltage/current you want in the house, on the house ground system. you want to keep this out of the house when possible, in order to prevent any collateral damage. two, you may have an ineffective or otherwise compromised house grounding system, and it may not provide an adequate path for the high currents induced by a direct or nearby lightning strike. for the reasons above, i suggest that you keep your house and antenna grounds completely separate. this means that the metallic tower should be grounded, and then the antenna downlead(s) should be grounded/protected using the bulkhead panel method i outlined above. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 8/24/2010 8:52:42 AM EDT
[#22]
I suppose it is contrary to the wisdom expressed in the Ham 101 thread. Though I can't find a link right now I believe the NEC requires all grounding systems to be bonded together. I believe the reason is to insure that all the grounds "rise and fall" together so there is never any potential difference between them. If there is you run the risk of arcing through your equiment.
Here is an article from the ARRL (could be members only) that mentions it. In case folks don't have access I'll paraphrase: "All grounding media at the home must be bonded together. This includes lightning-protection conductors, your electrical service, telephone, antenna system grounds and underground piping." |
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Posted: 8/24/2010 12:16:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I suppose it is contrary to the wisdom expressed in the Ham 101 thread. Though I can't find a link right now I believe the NEC requires all grounding systems to be bonded together. I believe the reason is to insure that all the grounds "rise and fall" together so there is never any potential difference between them. If there is you run the risk of arcing through your equiment. Here is an article from the ARRL (could be members only) that mentions it. In case folks don't have access I'll paraphrase: "All grounding media at the home must be bonded together. This includes lightning-protection conductors, your electrical service, telephone, antenna system grounds and underground piping." yup. I had a broken ground on the power going out to my shack and one day leaned across a rack to unplug an antenna.. YOWIE!!! was enough potential to make me do the 60Hz boogie 
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Posted: 8/24/2010 1:31:22 PM EDT
[#24]
Here is a link to some of the best grounding info I have seen:
http://www.dxengineering.com/TechArticles.asp?ID={A0896F49-0C15-4885-9969-EC0AB4B210F8} My grounding block goes out to several ground rods on 3 inch wide copper strap. |
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Posted: 8/26/2010 10:49:30 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Here is a link to some of the best grounding info I have seen: http://www.dxengineering.com/TechArticles.asp?ID={A0896F49-0C15-4885-9969-EC0AB4B210F8} My grounding block goes out to several ground rods on 3 inch wide copper strap. I read the Lightning Protection Tutorials and Tech Articles from DX Engineering. Very Informative, thanks pcsutton. Do you have any pics of your grounding block and 3" strap you can post for reference? I'd also be interested in how many operators here tie the station/antenna grounds to the house electrical ground or keep them separated. I'm waiting for parts to show up to continue with my Station and Antenna grounds. |
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Posted: 8/26/2010 2:29:35 PM EDT
[#26]
One of the parts I was waiting for showed up today. DXE-UE-1P Utility Enclosure Package. Still waiting on the I.C.E. arrestor and some other misc parts.
 
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Posted: 8/26/2010 3:47:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Now you are just getting all fancy and stuff....
Leed the way BigDaddy.... this is on my *to do* list, so you work out all the bugs and then post a nice write up... just append it to the end of the HT programming section you have on your list.... 
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Posted: 8/26/2010 4:03:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Now you are just getting all fancy and stuff....
Leed the way BigDaddy.... this is on my *to do* list, so you work out all the bugs and then post a nice write up... just append it to the end of the HT programming section you have on your list....
Will do Mndless. Have you noticed those lists never get shorter? 
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Posted: 8/26/2010 4:09:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now you are just getting all fancy and stuff....
Leed the way BigDaddy.... this is on my *to do* list, so you work out all the bugs and then post a nice write up... just append it to the end of the HT programming section you have on your list....
Will do Mndless. Have you noticed those lists never get shorter? Yep... but... the most important part is that *we do have a list!!!* anybody asks... * its on the list!! * 
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Posted: 8/28/2010 6:54:33 PM EDT
[#30]
It's been a pretty productive day. Got up early and talked to Jamaica on the Intercon Net with 10w. Then went to Lowes and picked up the trencher and a bunch of other related goodies. Trench complete, PVC glued together, coax fished through conduit.
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Posted: 8/29/2010 8:38:02 AM EDT
[#31]
looks like the dog plays on the play set more than the kids. you should put a cam out there for when everyone is gone. bet that would be some good video. LOL.
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Posted: 8/29/2010 11:40:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
looks like the dog plays on the play set more than the kids. you should put a cam out there for when everyone is gone. bet that would be some good video. LOL. I think it is a stuff'd dog that he is setting up and posing for the pictures....
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Posted: 8/29/2010 11:43:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
looks like the dog plays on the play set more than the kids. you should put a cam out there for when everyone is gone. bet that would be some good video. LOL. Yeah, she jumps on the trampoline, too. If I could just get her to cut the grass....
Just got back from Lowes, took the trencher back. Picked up a couple 8' copper clad grounding rods. My plan is to cut these in half and install the four rods in a star pattern like the diagram ALKVA suggested. More is better than deeper, I think that's the prevailing wisdom. Along with keeping the interconnecting copper short and fat. Is six eight feet (spacing = 1 x length) the length these multiple ground rods should be from each other? |
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Posted: 8/29/2010 11:49:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I think it is a stuff'd dog that he is setting up and posing for the pictures.... Then it must be stuff'd dog $#!T that I pick up each day and throw over the fence.
A related item for those with HOA and CCR's: The dog $#!T I throw over the fence is a pretty good deterrent to anyone snooping in the area where the coax enters the conduit....a kind of bio-chemical-deterrent! 
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Posted: 8/29/2010 1:30:28 PM EDT
[#35]
<snip> Is six feet the length these multiple ground rods should be from each other? I've seen two different answers for this: spacing = 1 x length and spacing = 2 x length. BTW, why shorten the ground rods? ETA: cool install! |
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Posted: 8/29/2010 1:41:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
<snip> Is six feet the length these multiple ground rods should be from each other? I've seen two different answers for this: spacing = 1 x length and spacing = 2 x length. BTW, why shorten the ground rods? ETA: cool install! OK, thanks regarding the spacing. The proposed shortening of the ground rods was something else I read about not really needing the full length if multiple rods were used. I think I'll overkill and keep them full length and still use four. Thanks regarding the install, also. As soon as the Black Raspberry thicket fills back in, it should be pretty stealthy. |
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Posted: 8/29/2010 7:41:26 PM EDT
[#37]
These are the approximate placement points for the (4) 8' ground rods. About six eight feet apart (spacing = 1 x length).
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Posted: 9/4/2010 2:58:51 PM EDT
[#38]
I.C.E. HF Arrestor showed up in the mailbox today. Ordered 8-25-10 ––-> Received 9-4-10. Ordered online and immediately got an email confirming the order. Then not a word until the credit card was charged yesterday. I tried unsuccessfully to call both their Toll Free and local numbers since they're here in Indy. No answer on any of the half dozen times I tried. I was prepared to do a drive-by next week to see what the hold up was. So, not the most user friendly company to deal with, but the product did arrive. The reviews on this were spot-on. Be patient, and it'll show up.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 4:32:50 PM EDT
[#39]
Watching with great interest...
Thanks for the posts. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 5:23:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think it is a stuff'd dog that he is setting up and posing for the pictures.... Then it must be stuff'd dog $#!T that I pick up each day and throw over the fence.
A related item for those with HOA and CCR's: The dog $#!T I throw over the fence is a pretty good deterrent to anyone snooping in the area where the coax enters the conduit....a kind of bio-chemical-deterrent!
http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Coax Conduit Entry Point.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Coax Conduit Entry Point Close.jpg Yep... Lightning protection and the deterrent use of dog $#!t., all in one thread... I think another write up is in the making!!! |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:48:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Look at bonding your ground rods to your copper line with some cadwelds. You will never need to dig them up and check them after you use them.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:25:20 PM EDT
[#42]
This is an awesome thread for grounding an external antenna.
Thanks for the great pics and info. So, what is the procedure to ground an antenna that is located completely within your attic space? In this case the antenna, coax, and radio are all inside the house. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 3:33:38 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Watching with great interest... Thanks for the posts. You're welcome, slashsplat. I learn a lot from this group. 
Quoted:
Yep... Lightning protection and the deterrent use of dog $#!t., all in one thread... One-Stop shopping!
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Posted: 9/5/2010 3:44:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Look at bonding your ground rods to your copper line with some cadwelds. You will never need to dig them up and check them after you use them. I wasn't familiar at all with cadwelds, but after watching a few YouTube videos, I'm looking into using it. Thanks for the tip, Jazzemt.
ETA: Changed video selection. 
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Posted: 9/5/2010 4:31:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
This is an awesome thread for grounding an external antenna. Thanks for the great pics and info. So, what is the procedure to ground an antenna that is located completely within your attic space? In this case the antenna, coax, and radio are all inside the house. You're welcome, VectorTX. Regarding grounding an antenna completely within the attic (the antenna, coax, and radio are all inside the house), I have that same situation for my 2m/70cm radio and antenna. At this time, the radio is in my orange box and grounded to the grounding bus in the box. When connected to 120VAC, through the Battery Tender Jr's ground wire also connected to the boxes ground bus bar, the radio is grounded to the house ground....I think. I am unclear about this, though. The antenna and coax is completely inside the house and ungrounded. I don't think this is a concern. Anyone have a comment on this? 
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Posted: 9/14/2010 9:47:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Our club station took a lightning hit a few weeks ago. Every power supply was smoked along with a couple radios and a computer. Quoted:
[thread_drift] Best we can figure out anything that was grounded, per good amateur practice, was smoked. The items that didn't take the hit were not on a common ground. The computer got it through the CAT5. We're wondering if there is something out there to prevent another strike from coming through the ground rod. That same weekend my house got hit by lightning. (Note to self: Don't buy a house on an Indian burial ground.) Entire computer system, entire Direct TV system, one input to the flat screen TV, home theater receiver, and most anything with a wall wart transformer were no longer functional. Took a week to get the smell out of the house. Entrance point was a tree in the front yard. Transferred to the flashing along the edge of the roof. Exited at the Direct TV antenna coax blasting the coax in two. Also melted the ground wire for the TV antenna. Blew a two inch hole in the sheetrock in the master bath. Common thread is that anything connected to low voltage systems, phone and network cables, and TV antenna coax took a hit. The wall warts went before the circuit breaker tripped. Lessons learned. Get a good UPS. One that handles network and POTS inputs also. My UPS was an older model that didn't protect the network side and guess where the voltage spike came in to trash the computer. Get surge protectors with a coax input feature. This would have saved the home theater receiver and the Direct TV receivers. Things are barely more than a power strip so buy a few. I haven't said a word about the ham shack. Reason is that it came through without a scratch. Nada. Nothing. My antennas are in my attic and were connected to the Kenwood at the time. Power supply was plugged in but was turned off. Contrary to good practice I haven't gotten around to grounding my station. My procrastanation may have saved the shack. The circuit that runs the shack has three GFI outlets. One about 3 feet from the breaker panel and another two that power outdoor outlets. The first GFI outlet took one for the team and smoked itself. Probably saved everything on that circuit including the ham shack and the beer mini fridge. [/thread_drift] Quoted:
Quoted:
Best we can figure out anything that was grounded, per good amateur practice, was smoked. The stereotypical "good amateur practice" of grounding your station, as an RF ground due to improper antenna setup, but without correct lightning protection configuration simply provides a superb path for lightning to destroy your entire station. More reasons to do it right.
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Posted: 9/14/2010 10:02:33 AM EDT
[#47]
From the other thread
 : With my forthcoming foray into HF, I've been starting to think about this whole grounding business. I see lots of different info on how to make this work - for me, I'm in the basement, antenna will be outside up about 15-20 feet. So do I run the coax through a good lightning arrestor (ICE?) unit and ground the antenna to that (ie: ground line going to ground rods pounded into ground) and then just run a separate ground from the radio inside to a water pipe or something? Unsure if that's the right way to do it or if I should ground it to an outlet or something. For ground rods, do they have to be driven into the ground? I've read several things that seem to indicate a good ground wire just a few inches under the soil laid horizontally works as well, or simply laid on the surface of the ground. Not sure what is best, I'd imagine driving the ground rods, but all opinions welcome. |
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Posted: 9/14/2010 10:17:01 AM EDT
[#48]
I'm going to use several (4) 8' ground rods separated by 8', all connected together with 3" wide copper strap.
Something like these pics. 
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:54:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Stopped by the local tool rental place to check out rotating hammer drills. They have a nice Makita, similar to the one in the following video, that rents pretty cheap. I think this will be the way my 4 ground rods get in the dirt.
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Posted: 9/14/2010 1:01:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Stopped by the local tool rental place to check out rotating hammer drills. They have a nice Makita, similar to the one in the following video, that rents pretty cheap. I think this will be the way my 4 ground rods get in the dirt.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJYhHZYu_4g
you must have some hard ground. I use a fence post pounder, and it only takes a few minutes. Goes quicker than that video. |
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