What is the best all around handgun caliber?
9MM, .40, or .45

Considering factors such as

1. Terminal effects
2. Cost of ammo
3. Mag capacity
4. Ammo availablity
5. Ability of wife to handle
6. Whatever else you can add to the discussion...

Data would be nice for discussing terminal effects...

45-70 from a Magnum Research.

Yeah, I'd really be able to afford practice ammo...

If it is for your wife I'd try 9mm and .45. The .40 is an unpleasant jerk for my wife, while the others are more like gentle pushes. Go to range and rent all for wife to try and then decide.

The best self defense caliber is any that you can engage your target with no less than 4 shots with speed and precision.  Only hits count.  The biggest baddest bullet/caliber means nothing if you can not control it or hit with it.

.41 magnum.

Caliber is secondary, Placement is key with any handgun ctg.  Put the bullet where it'll do the most good(or harm,LOL) and let the small amount of energy that a handgun has do the rest.

You forgot the 10mm!

I voted for 9mm because I can shoot twice as much for the same money as a .45, and therefore am a better shot with my 9 than I ever was with my .45 (both are Sigs).  Also, my 9mm holds 14 rounds, twice what the .45 did, and in a smaller package.  That makes it better for self defense, FOR ME.  To each their own.

Quoted: You forgot the 10mm!

+1   135 gr load from Double Tap. A cannon in your IWB

500 S&W Mag  pushing 400gr HP's

You might only get one shot , but if you hit what your aiming at it's not likely to be a threat any longer .

Hmmm, never seen this issue come up before.
Just kiddin', .45 for me.

Quoted: You forgot the 10mm!

+1

In its absence, I'll go with .45 > .40 > 9mm.

Quoted: I voted for 9mm because I can shoot twice as much for the same money as a .45, and therefore am a better shot with my 9 than I ever was with my .45 (both are Sigs).  Also, my 9mm holds 14 rounds, twice what the .45 did, and in a smaller package.  That makes it better for self defense, FOR ME.  To each their own.

+1 here!

I kind of like the new Taser that's out... you nail the guy once, and the batteries in the gun let you repeat up to 99 more times. Just keep zapping him into submission. It's kind of fun to watch too, and no permanent after effects except he'll probably need to change his shorts. All the while you dial 911 for the cavalry, and keep the 9 or .45 handy just in case.

.45


anything else is unAmerican

45 ACP there are so many different loads you can shoot. You can make it roar or be gently enough for speed shooting with a moderate recoil.

Quoted: .45 anything else is unAmerican

+1

9mm +P or .45 ACP

My vote is for the 10mm, 165 gr cor-bon.

The main thing when picking a self-defence handgun it getting one that you can shoot well under pressure. I've had a couple S&W M-29's w/4" bbls. that I've shot with full power loads, it's not that big of a deal, BUT under pressure I'd have a hard time getting follow up shots and controling the gun so it'd not be a good "self defence" handgun.  At the other extream is the 22lr, I've had em' and they're real easy to control, even under pressure but they just don't have enough "umph" to get the job done.  You need to go with the largest caliber that you(or your wife) can handle well under a stress situation and don't worry about what it ends up being. If you(she) can handle a 45acp well then go with it, if not then move down to something smaller.  Make her shoot on a timer, force her to make hits while moving or after running when her heart rate is up. Shooting under stress is far different from just standing still and shooting at a target. When you have to shoot fast recoil really comes into play, or should I say lack of recoil.  Personally, with the loads available today, I'd go with a 9mm because recoil is tame compared to some of the 40 and 45 loads so you know  that you'll shoot it well under a stress situation and in most 9's, now that the AWB has gone away, you can get 15-17 rnd. mags giving you plenty of ammo if you ever need to shoot your way to cover or to a point were you can run for it.   When it comes to your life or the life of a loved one it's not the time to get caught up in all the "macho" bullshit, don't go with a 45acp because you want to be a "man", pick what you can realistically handle, remember, your life may be at stake someday and you really do want to hit what you aim at. If you can hit better with a 9 then go with it, don't let your ego get you killed.

I've already got a couple of 9mm handguns, just trying to decide what caliber to get for the next one...

*yawn*

get something you like, you trust, that runs, that you can find parts for, that you can find ammo for....you get the idea.

Quoted: *yawn* get something you like, you trust, that runs, that you can find parts for, that you can find ammo for....you get the idea.

Then shoot that .45 until you're an expert!

FYI I carry a G36 (.45) but own a G17 and would never feel undergunned with it...because I can put my 9mm's exactly where I want them because I'm a crack shot.

Whatever you have with you when you need it.

I expected more votes for the .40, isn't that supposed to be the new trend in LE calibers?

I fell off the 40 wagon a while back.  There isn't anything wrong with it, just that it's more expensive to plink with than a 9mm, and I'm a 1911/45 fan for fun stuff and carry.  I don't think there is enough difference between the three to pick one over the other when using quality loads and good shot placement.  

.40 for me, Have 2 XD .40's already ( sub-compact and service) and going to buy a 3rd (tactical). I like the size of the pistol, the diameter the .40 expands to and the capacity of the magazines.

Yep, I took the middle road, fits me best as far as versatility goes without buying a bunch of different calibers.

Considering the criteria you listed, it amazes me all the people who actually voted for the .45 which is the worst of the bunch for items 2-5

No personal defense ammo is cheaper than a 9mm
No semi-auto of equal size and weight can hold more rounds than the 9mm
No ammo of any type other than .22LR is easier to find than 9mm
No personal defense ammo is easier to shoot well (for wives or anybody else) than the 9mm.

If the right ammo is used and the shot is well placed, a 9mm will stop a person just as easily as a .40 or .45. If shot placement is poor, a .40 or .45 is just as ineffective as a .22LR. Don't fall for all of the bigger is better BS.

Did you know that there was a caliber forum?  I did.

Quoted: Quoted: *yawn* get something you like, you trust, that runs, that you can find parts for, that you can find ammo for....you get the idea. Then shoot that .45 until you're an expert! FYI I carry a G36 (.45) but own a G17 and would never feel undergunned with it...because I can put my 9mm's exactly where I want them because I'm a crack shot.

Anything other than .45 is un-American? What does the G in G36 mean again?

.357 magnum for me. Don't know why no one  has mentioned it.

9mm

Quoted: Considering the criteria you listed, it amazes me all the people who actually voted for the .45 which is the worst of the bunch for items 2-5 No personal defense ammo is cheaper than a 9mm No semi-auto of equal size and weight can hold more rounds than the 9mm No ammo of any type other than .22LR is easier to find than 9mm No personal defense ammo is easier to shoot well (for wives or anybody else) than the 9mm. If the right ammo is used and the shot is well placed, a 9mm will stop a person just as easily as a .40 or .45. If shot placement is poor, a .40 or .45 is just as ineffective as a .22LR. Don't fall for all of the bigger is better BS.

#2 Cost is subjective. What is your life worth?
#3 8 rounds of 45 with good shot placement is 8 kills (with 7 round mags, 9 with 8 round mags), where as the Miami shoot out showed that more than 2 rouns of 9mm were required to stop the bad gun, so that is only 7.5 bad guys for 15 founds, 8 if you top of w/16 in a 15 round gun.

Quoted: Caliber is secondary, Placement is key with any handgun ctg.  Put the bullet where it'll do the most good(or harm,LOL) and let the small amount of energy that a handgun has do the rest.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Considering the criteria you listed, it amazes me all the people who actually voted for the .45 which is the worst of the bunch for items 2-5 No personal defense ammo is cheaper than a 9mm No semi-auto of equal size and weight can hold more rounds than the 9mm No ammo of any type other than .22LR is easier to find than 9mm No personal defense ammo is easier to shoot well (for wives or anybody else) than the 9mm. If the right ammo is used and the shot is well placed, a 9mm will stop a person just as easily as a .40 or .45. If shot placement is poor, a .40 or .45 is just as ineffective as a .22LR. Don't fall for all of the bigger is better BS. #2 Cost is subjective. What is your life worth? #3 8 rounds of 45 with good shot placement is 8 kills (with 7 round mags, 9 with 8 round mags), where as the Miami shoot out showed that more than 2 rouns of 9mm were required to stop the bad gun, so that is only 7.5 bad guys for 15 founds, 8 if you top of w/16 in a 15 round gun.

#2 he didn't ask "value of ammo". If he had then maybe you would have an argument about it being subjective. He asked "cost of ammo". There is no argument about whether the 9mm is the least expensive
#3 15-17 rounds of good JHP 9mm with good shot placement is 15-17 kills. It is a fallacy to believe that a BG can't be taken out with one 9mm round.

But let's assume for a minute you are right, it takes two shots of 9mm for every one shot of a .45. How many of us here will ever go up against 8 BG's? If someone did, the chances of you being able to get a clean shot off on all 8 of them is slim to none. You'd be better off trying to use suppressing fire at them to either keep them at bay or to get the hell out of there. Either way 15-17 rounds of anything will be more useful than 7-8 rounds of anything else.

How does one achieve proper shot placement? Practice, practice, practice! You can say all you want about "what is your life worth" but in the real world, most of us have a limited budgets that we have no choice but to consider. Most people can not afford to practice with .45 ammo anywhere near as much as they can with 9mm.

I have no problem with you guys who prefer the .45 for whatever your reasons are. What you guys need to keep in mind is, just because it may be the right choice for you, that doesn't mean that it is the right choice for everybody else. Given Nate's criteria, it seems clear to me that the 9mm is the right choice for him.

I hope someone has pointed out that 3 rounds missing from the poll -- 10mm, 357Mag and 357Sig -- are amoung the most effective stopping rounds in real world shootings?

All practical defensive handgun calibers - 9mm, .38 special, .357 Sig, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .45 ACP - deliver about as much energy to a target as a baseball.  There have been spectacular failures to stop with each of them, although all of them are capable of penetrating to vital organs at less-than-optimum angles and doing sufficient tissue damage.  With today's best quality ammo, there's not much real-world difference in their effectiveness.  The 9mm doesn't deserve it's reputation for being underpowered, and the .45 isn't the Hammer of Thor.  A single hit in the head or upper spine with any caliber will be an instant stop.  Multiple hits anywhere else with any caliber may take time.  Even if a bad guy's heart and lungs are turned to soup. there's still enough blood in his brain for him to function for ten or fifteen seconds if he's motivated or drugged enough.  Having said all that, I think of 9mm as the practical minimum for Pitbull-and-Knife-Repellent, and .45 as the practical maximum for shootability, carrying comfort and concealability.  Sometimes capacity counts, so I lean towards the 9mm and .40, and carry both with Speer Gold Dots.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: *yawn* get something you like, you trust, that runs, that you can find parts for, that you can find ammo for....you get the idea. Then shoot that .45 until you're an expert! FYI I carry a G36 (.45) but own a G17 and would never feel undergunned with it...because I can put my 9mm's exactly where I want them because I'm a crack shot. Anything other than .45 is un-American? What does the G in G36 mean again? .357 magnum for me. Don't know why no one  has mentioned it.

Holy smokes I can't believe I forgot about the 357!!!

I change my mind.  The 357 is the ultimate self defense round!

lol...re: G36....good point.

Quoted: All practical defensive handgun calibers - 9mm, .38 special, .357 Sig, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .45 ACP - deliver about as much energy to a target as a baseball.  There have been spectacular failures to stop with each of them, although all of them are capable of penetrating to vital organs at less-than-optimum angles and doing sufficient tissue damage.  With today's best quality ammo, there's not much real-world difference in their effectiveness.  The 9mm doesn't deserve it's reputation for being underpowered, and the .45 isn't the Hammer of Thor.  A single hit in the head or upper spine with any caliber will be an instant stop.  Multiple hits anywhere else with any caliber may take time.  Even if a bad guy's heart and lungs are turned to soup. there's still enough blood in his brain for him to operate for ten or fifteen seconds if he's motivated or drugged enough.  Having said all that, I think of 9mm as the practical minimum for Pitbull-and-Knife-Repellent, and .45 as the practical maximum for shootability, carrying comfort and concealability.  Sometimes capacity counts, so I lean towards the 9mm and .40, and carry both with Speer Gold Dots.

+1
It is also funny how people will praise the +p 38spl. load and turn up their nose at the 9mm.  A standard 9mm has more velociety then the +p38spl, go figure. If you move into the world of +p  9mm's then you're right on the heels of the .357Mag.  I think with proper bullets/loads the 9mm works as good as anything. Plus, the round feeds better then any other round, with the .357 Sig. being the exception. The 9mm is a tappered round so it feeds like a wedge into the chamber and it's a short, thin ctg. which also helps feeding.  

Quoted: It is also funny how people will praise the +p 38spl. load and turn up their nose at the 9mm.  A standard 9mm has more velociety then the +p38spl, go figure. If you move into the world of +p  9mm's then you're right on the heels of the .357Mag.  I think with proper bullets/loads the 9mm works as good as anything. Plus, the round feeds better then any other round, with the .357 Sig. being the exception. The 9mm is a tappered round so it feeds like a wedge into the chamber and it's a short, thin ctg. which also helps feeding.

As my best friend says, "Let me shoot you with a 9mm +P and then a .45, and you tell me which one hurts the most."  I carry a Kahr P9 in a belt holster when I have a jacket or sweater on, and a PM9 in an ankle holster during hot weather.  They're both so light and small that I hardly feel them.  I can't say that about many .40's, and no .45's.  And judging from what Speer Gold Dots will do to a pumpkin, if I can't stop a bad guy it just wasn't my day.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Considering the criteria you listed, it amazes me all the people who actually voted for the .45 which is the worst of the bunch for items 2-5 No personal defense ammo is cheaper than a 9mm No semi-auto of equal size and weight can hold more rounds than the 9mm No ammo of any type other than .22LR is easier to find than 9mm No personal defense ammo is easier to shoot well (for wives or anybody else) than the 9mm. If the right ammo is used and the shot is well placed, a 9mm will stop a person just as easily as a .40 or .45. If shot placement is poor, a .40 or .45 is just as ineffective as a .22LR. Don't fall for all of the bigger is better BS. #2 Cost is subjective. What is your life worth? #3 8 rounds of 45 with good shot placement is 8 kills (with 7 round mags, 9 with 8 round mags), where as the Miami shoot out showed that more than 2 rouns of 9mm were required to stop the bad gun, so that is only 7.5 bad guys for 15 founds, 8 if you top of w/16 in a 15 round gun. #2 he didn't ask "value of ammo". If he had then maybe you would have an argument about it being subjective. He asked "cost of ammo". There is no argument about whether the 9mm is the least expensive #3 15-17 rounds of good JHP 9mm with good shot placement is 15-17 kills. It is a fallacy to believe that a BG can't be taken out with one 9mm round. But let's assume for a minute you are right, it takes two shots of 9mm for every one shot of a .45. How many of us here will ever go up against 8 BG's? If someone did, the chances of you being able to get a clean shot off on all 8 of them is slim to none. You'd be better off trying to use suppressing fire at them to either keep them at bay or to get the hell out of there. Either way 15-17 rounds of anything will be more useful than 7-8 rounds of anything else. How does one achieve proper shot placement? Practice, practice, practice! You can say all you want about "what is your life worth" but in the real world, most of us have a limited budgets that we have no choice but to consider. Most people can not afford to practice with .45 ammo anywhere near as much as they can with 9mm. I have no problem with you guys who prefer the .45 for whatever your reasons are. What you guys need to keep in mind is, just because it may be the right choice for you, that doesn't mean that it is the right choice for everybody else. Given Nate's criteria, it seems clear to me that the 9mm is the right choice for him.

Now that is good posting!  That's the best argument for the 9mm I've ever heard.  I'm partial to the 9, as I shoot it better than anything else and having 16-18 rounds in the gun makes me feel even better.

If I can accurately place said 16-18 shots, then how can someone tell me that I'm underpowered and that I need a .45?  I like the .45 for every now and then shooting, but for defensive purposes a powerful enough 9mm does fine for me.

As has been stated, choose what works best for you, fits your budget, and that you're the most comfortable with.  A 9mm is better than being unarmed.  So is a .45.  I see little reason to argue which is better in a non subjective manner.

I don't think the word "budget" should be included in a defensive handgun discussion  There are some things that one shouldn't attempt to scimp on, like a carry pistol and accoutrements.  If you can't afford what's right, work a little overtime or skip Starbucks a few mornings.

Quoted: I don't think the word "budget" should be included in a defensive handgun discussion  There are some things that one shouldn't attempt to scimp on, like a carry pistol and accoutrements.  If you can't afford what's right, work a little overtime or skip Starbucks a few mornings.

The problem isn't the cost of defensive ammo. The problem is the cost of practice ammo. Another argument for the .357 is that the magnums are good for defense but are as expensive if not more so than even .45. The cool thing is you can practice with .38's which is as cheap or cheaper than 9mm. You do have to consider a box of .357 every time you practice to get used to it though.

I do agree with the statement that you can't go wrong with any caliber using modern HP's. I prefer revolvers for reliability which is why a choose the .357. The only argument that makes the .45 shine IMO is when talking FMJ's. Then I believe bigger is better. When I had a 1911, I actually carried FMJ's and felt fine with it. Of course if my 1911 fed HP's  reliably, I would have gone with them.

I probably phrased that thought poorly.  What I meant was, if you think .45 is better, go with it and skip Starbucks that morning to cover the difference in cost for your practice ammo.  

I'm a 9mm fan, too, especially when it comes in a package smaller and lighter than a PPK.  

Oh boy... .this topic again.  

Well to answer your question in the most immediate terms, there is no "best".  

Each caliber has its good points and its bad points.  

As far as ammo availability that is kind of a non-issue between these three rounds... all 3 can be had a walmart and/or any local gunshop.  

As for wife issues... that also depends on your wife.  If she is a tiny little thing with dainty hands, then a 9mm is probably the best for her.  

IF you are looking for what is most COST effective of the calibers you mentioned, it would be 9mm.   You can get 100 rounds of Winchester at Walmart for 10 bucks.  .40 cal runs 15 bucks per 100, and .45 runs 20 bucks or so.

9mm is fun to shoot, accurate, and with the right ammo a fairly decent defensive ammo.  Not to mention 15-18 round mags are now available for many 9mm pistols.  

The .45 is an American favorite.  There are LOTS of great .45s out there, and its a great defensive round, but due to it's size you are going to have less ammo per mag in most cases.  And because it is a larger more powerful round, its going to kick harder in most "compact" models.  In some cases, unpleasantlyl harder.  

The .40 is indeed a LEO favorite in recent years.  Its kind of a trade off between the cost/high cap of a 9mm, and the size and power of a .45.  Although most people will admit the .40 seems to have more "muzzle flip" than the .45.  

As far as which is best, that depends more on YOU than it does the handgun or caliber you choose.  

If cost is a major factor, go with .40 or 9mm.   I carry a Glock 19 9mm, and with the great prices you can find at walmart for ammo I shoot an average of 300 rounds per weekend.   I compete with my G19 and I have brought myself to the point where I can shoot it fast, and accurate from various positions, stances, and with varying types of cover.  

If I could afford to shoot the same number of rounds of .45 would I use a .45 instead of a 9mm?  Sure I would.  But I can't, so for ME the best is 9mm.  

I am of the belief that since I am a bit limited in my shooting budget that training and practice make more of a difference in a gun battle than the caliber of your gun does.  

If you are, however, going to shoot 50 rounds a month, and that is all you are going to shoot no  matter what caliber  you choose, than go with the bigger caliber.

You know your budget as well as other factors that will influence how much you train far better than we do.  So choose according to what YOU can afford, and what YOU can shoot accurately.  

A wise man once said to me in a firearms class I was taking "Your average gangster, thug, home invader, or mugger does not know squat about his weapon.  He does not train with it, practice with it, or learn any kind of shooting disclipine at all.   The problem is it's pretty much the same case for  your average law abiding gun owning citizen too."  

His point was this... be better than the BG.  5 or 6 shots to center mass from a 9mm beats 5 or 6 shots of any other caliber that hit nothing at all.  

So if you can afford to shoot .45 or .40 as much as you want, then by all means get the bigger gun.  But if cost will be the ruling factor in how much you train, the maybe go .40 or 9mm.  

In the end of a gun battle, it's the man who shot faster, and more accuratly who will stand the greatest chance of being the last man standing.

In closing remember the words of Richard Marcinko... "The more thou sweatest in training, the less thou bleedest in combat."

Thanks for reading.

Quoted: I don't think the word "budget" should be included in a defensive handgun discussion  There are some things that one shouldn't attempt to scimp on, like a carry pistol and accoutrements.  If you can't afford what's right, work a little overtime or skip Starbucks a few mornings.

I disagree... to a point.  

As far as QUALITY of firearm, you are quite correct.  Dont skimp out on quality of firearm.  And dont skimp out on quality defensive ammo.  

As far as cost of continual practice (practice ammo), I dont agree.  If you cant afford to shoot it often enough to be an effective defensive shooter, than its not the caliber to choose.  

Quoted: 500 S&W Mag  pushing 400gr HP's You might only get one shot , but if you hit what your aiming at it's not likely to be a threat any longer .

Yeah... and shoot that puppy in a building with no hearing protection and you wont have the worry of annoying noises anymore... oh and feel that warmth running down the side of your head... that was your eardrum!

357 Sig

Quoted: As my best friend says, "Let me shoot you with a 9mm +P and then a .45, and you tell me which one hurts the most."

That argument is as fscking stupid today as it was when it was first uttered.

"Well, let me run you over with a Civic and then with a Ram and you tell me which hurts the most."  Geeze, oh, please!

If your determining factor is either, "this is cheaper to practice with" or "shooting this hurts my pussy" then fsck you.  May you be removed from the gene pool before you procreate.

Fucking pansies.

Quoted: Quoted: As my best friend says, "Let me shoot you with a 9mm +P and then a .45, and you tell me which one hurts the most." That argument is as fscking stupid today as it was when it was first uttered. "Well, let me run you over with a Civic and then with a Ram and you tell me which hurts the most."  Geeze, oh, please! If your determining factor is either, "this is cheaper to practice with" or "shooting this hurts my pussy" then fsck you.  May you be removed from the gene pool before you procreate. Fucking pansies.

mmmmm....Okay DeCaf, DeCaf, DeCaf