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Posted: 12/27/2014 3:06:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: THE-DET-OAK]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dragracer_Rob:
Had a heart attack. Cardiac doc wants me off the trt. Are there good reasons why? Didn't discuss with him, was a little out to it. I was just starting to feel human again. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dragracer_Rob:
Had a heart attack. Cardiac doc wants me off the trt. Are there good reasons why? Didn't discuss with him, was a little out to it. I was just starting to feel human again. No there is no good reason for it at all. The literature refuting the studies (if you can call them studies) have been posted in this thread. “A close examination reveals that this study is too flawed to provide meaningful information on the cardiovascular risk of testosterone therapy,” stated Dr Miner. “First, the overall rate of nonfatal MI in the testosterone-treated group increased in all ages from 3.48 to 4.75 per 1,000 person-years. This amounts to just greater than one additional MI in 1,000 years of exposure to testosterone. It is misleading to characterize this increase as ‘substantial’ based on relative risk when the absolute risk is so small and clinically meaningless. Evidence on Testosterone Therapy does Not Support Cardiac Risk I believe this is an attempt from the manufacturers of Viagra to try and grab the market share they are losing year after year. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 3:43:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan]
[#2]
Just got the results from my T-test last week and I'm down from 260 in October to 197, lowest I've been in four years. The only change I had made was sleeping better. Doc said that chronic fatigue can lead to low T so he wanted me to try that. He said let's talk about some of the oral meds at my next appointment. I've been reading everything I can in this thread and a bunch on pubmed so I hope I am up to speed.
Based on what I have read I would like to try Arimidex first and go from there. Maybe throw in some HCG with it. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:11:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Based on what I have read I would like to try Arimidex first and go from there. Maybe throw in some HCG with it. I don't know what you have read, but Arimidex is used for lowering your estrogen level or more specifically blocking the conversion of T to E. It's typically only taken by males in conjunction with T injections to keep all that T from converting to E. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:00:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bowhuntr09:
I don't know what you have read, but Arimidex is used for lowering your estrogen level or more specifically blocking the conversion of T to E. It's typically only taken by males in conjunction with T injections to keep all that T from converting to E. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bowhuntr09:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Based on what I have read I would like to try Arimidex first and go from there. Maybe throw in some HCG with it. I don't know what you have read, but Arimidex is used for lowering your estrogen level or more specifically blocking the conversion of T to E. It's typically only taken by males in conjunction with T injections to keep all that T from converting to E. Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up the different studies I've read. I'll have to go through what I've printed again. I thought Arimidex increased T while reducing E. Is it the one that blocks T converting to E? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:04:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up the different studies I've read. I'll have to go through what I've printed again. I thought Arimidex increased T while reducing E. Is it the one that blocks T converting to E? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Originally Posted By bowhuntr09:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Based on what I have read I would like to try Arimidex first and go from there. Maybe throw in some HCG with it. I don't know what you have read, but Arimidex is used for lowering your estrogen level or more specifically blocking the conversion of T to E. It's typically only taken by males in conjunction with T injections to keep all that T from converting to E. Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up the different studies I've read. I'll have to go through what I've printed again. I thought Arimidex increased T while reducing E. Is it the one that blocks T converting to E? You have to have testosterone to work with in the form of natural production or outside source. More than likely, you estrogen is not low if your not naturally producing. I would recommend you read a little more in depth before you start "throwing" drugs around. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:40:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk: You have to have testosterone to work with in the form of natural production or outside source. More than likely, you estrogen is not low if your not naturally producing. I would recommend you read a little more in depth before you start "throwing" drugs around. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk: Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By bowhuntr09: Originally Posted By medicmandan: Based on what I have read I would like to try Arimidex first and go from there. Maybe throw in some HCG with it. I don't know what you have read, but Arimidex is used for lowering your estrogen level or more specifically blocking the conversion of T to E. It's typically only taken by males in conjunction with T injections to keep all that T from converting to E. Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up the different studies I've read. I'll have to go through what I've printed again. I thought Arimidex increased T while reducing E. Is it the one that blocks T converting to E? You have to have testosterone to work with in the form of natural production or outside source. More than likely, you estrogen is not low if your not naturally producing. I would recommend you read a little more in depth before you start "throwing" drugs around. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:56:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Back to pubmed for me then. I want to be in the know when I go back to the doc.
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:08:17 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Back to pubmed for me then. I want to be in the know when I go back to the doc. Give Clomid (clomiphene) a try. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:15:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Back to pubmed for me then. I want to be in the know when I go back to the doc. Let me save you some time and go to tnation. They have things categorized so it's easier to read. And just a word of advice, there is one, now possibly two people on here who support the clomid protocol. I am not sure how many dozens who do not, myself included. Tried it and was a no go. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:18:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Let me save you some time and go to tnation. They have things categorized so it's easier to read. And just a word of advice, there is one, now possibly two people on here who support the clomid protocol. I am not sure how many dozens who do not, myself included. Tried it and was a no go. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Back to pubmed for me then. I want to be in the know when I go back to the doc. Let me save you some time and go to tnation. They have things categorized so it's easier to read. And just a word of advice, there is one, now possibly two people on here who support the clomid protocol. I am not sure how many dozens who do not, myself included. Tried it and was a no go. I have read several studies about Clomid and the clinical trial for the men's version. Did it not work for you at all or were there side effects? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:25:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
I have read several studies about Clomid and the clinical trial for the men's version. Did it not work for you at all or were there side effects? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Back to pubmed for me then. I want to be in the know when I go back to the doc. Let me save you some time and go to tnation. They have things categorized so it's easier to read. And just a word of advice, there is one, now possibly two people on here who support the clomid protocol. I am not sure how many dozens who do not, myself included. Tried it and was a no go. I have read several studies about Clomid and the clinical trial for the men's version. Did it not work for you at all or were there side effects? Oh it worked. Went from ZERO sperm and a sperm sample so small they could barely test to fertile Myrtle and a test sample that made the lab tech blush. Balls hung lower than a porn stars'. All that was nice but it didn't offset the wanting to blow my head off from the depression it put me in. What's the point in taking a drug that makes your numbers look good but you don't feel good? No sex drive, energy, ect... |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2014 2:30:15 AM EDT
[#12]
Tried clomid for over a year. Although numbers all around went up- there was NO libido- NO sex drive- depressed as all fuck! Balls hung so low it hurt to sit! I read this stuff works but not for me.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:28:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
There have been some references in the literature that indicate sleep apnea can be worsened as a side effect of TRT, though I haven't seen it said it causes apnea nor have I seen the same mentioned about the Clomid approach. Sleep Apnea is nothing to ignore. It has highly negative effects on both your physiology and psychology. It has been linked to various heart conditions as well as early onset Alzheimer's and dementia. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Yeah and I am not obese or anything. But I am reading that Testosterone therapy can make it worse.... My wife has noticed that I am starting to snore now. Only time I snore is when I am sick or just completely drained and pass out. Not sure if the trt is related or not. There have been some references in the literature that indicate sleep apnea can be worsened as a side effect of TRT, though I haven't seen it said it causes apnea nor have I seen the same mentioned about the Clomid approach. Sleep Apnea is nothing to ignore. It has highly negative effects on both your physiology and psychology. It has been linked to various heart conditions as well as early onset Alzheimer's and dementia. I started suffering from sleep apnea in my late teens. I found that I can avoid it by sleeping on my side. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:33:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Water retention is a big issue which in return makes you look fatter than you really are. I have about 15-18 lbs of fat to loose. I gained all that when I went through my hormonal roller-coaster this summer/fall. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Yeah and I am not obese or anything. But I am reading that Testosterone therapy can make it worse.... I'm 6'2" and wt is 220, not fat at all, no over hanging belly and getting the 6 pack back Water retention is a big issue which in return makes you look fatter than you really are. I have about 15-18 lbs of fat to loose. I gained all that when I went through my hormonal roller-coaster this summer/fall. Yeah, when I started T injections I lost over 15 lbs of fat, and then suddenly started gaining fat weight back again. The weight gain was linked to my E levels nearing 50 pg/ml. I was also retaining water. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:42:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
I have read several studies about Clomid and the clinical trial for the men's version. Did it not work for you at all or were there side effects? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Back to pubmed for me then. I want to be in the know when I go back to the doc. Let me save you some time and go to tnation. They have things categorized so it's easier to read. And just a word of advice, there is one, now possibly two people on here who support the clomid protocol. I am not sure how many dozens who do not, myself included. Tried it and was a no go. I have read several studies about Clomid and the clinical trial for the men's version. Did it not work for you at all or were there side effects? In a nutshell, Clomid is for those who are trying to have kids. Otherwise it seems to miss all the other benefits that T injections provide. T injections, on the other hand, provide a host of benefits from bringing energy levels back to normal, making exercise and weight training productive again, bringing libido back to normal, etc...but tends to reduce fertility. Both T injections and Clomid tend to increase E levels. Taking Arimidex in conjunction with these treatments can help keep E levels in check, but remember that a little bit goes a long way. Arimidex by itself won't correct low T. It just helps stabilize E levels while on TRT. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 5:22:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EXPY37]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shane333:
I started suffering from sleep apnea in my late teens. I found that I can avoid it by sleeping on my side. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Yeah and I am not obese or anything. But I am reading that Testosterone therapy can make it worse.... My wife has noticed that I am starting to snore now. Only time I snore is when I am sick or just completely drained and pass out. Not sure if the trt is related or not. There have been some references in the literature that indicate sleep apnea can be worsened as a side effect of TRT, though I haven't seen it said it causes apnea nor have I seen the same mentioned about the Clomid approach. Sleep Apnea is nothing to ignore. It has highly negative effects on both your physiology and psychology. It has been linked to various heart conditions as well as early onset Alzheimer's and dementia. I started suffering from sleep apnea in my late teens. I found that I can avoid it by sleeping on my side. Still, it's a HUGE business for the docs, diagnosticians and equipment mgrs.. Hell, I'll bet most anyone could walk in and be tested for S-A with an outcome that requires mucho dinero to be spent on continued office visits and equipment. Some folks truly benefit, but that doesn't make it still partly a racket. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 5:23:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EXPY37]
[#17]
What about combining Clomid and T-C in some way?
Clomid is readily available... Any studies? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 5:30:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EXPY37:
What about combining Clomid and T-C in some way? Clomid is readily available... Any studies? I have also wondered about that combo. I haven't seen any protocols/studies that involve that cocktail. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 6:33:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
I have also wondered about that combo. I haven't seen any protocols/studies that involve that cocktail. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
What about combining Clomid and T-C in some way? Clomid is readily available... Any studies? I have also wondered about that combo. I haven't seen any protocols/studies that involve that cocktail. I have heard that some docs will prescribe either Clomid or HCG (usually one or the other) for their T-injection/patch patients in an attempt to maintain some semblance of fertility. (Read a couple of studies, too.) I did the Clomid thing because I simply don't like injections and the patch made my T go down, not up. It has worked for me and I've kept my E down using things like EstroDIM (DIM+I3C). I didn't have any negative side effects, lost quite a bit of weight, regained a LOT of energy. In my case, since I stopped feeling like crap, my libido returned. I wasn't horny all the time as often happens with folks on the T-injection route, but it was good, and didn't have any of the emotional roller coaster ride that some have reported with T injections (and some with Clomid). YMMV. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2014 6:45:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Let me save you some time and go to tnation. They have things categorized so it's easier to read. And just a word of advice, there is one, now possibly two people on here who support the clomid protocol. I am not sure how many dozens who do not, myself included. Tried it and was a no go. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Back to pubmed for me then. I want to be in the know when I go back to the doc. Let me save you some time and go to tnation. They have things categorized so it's easier to read. And just a word of advice, there is one, now possibly two people on here who support the clomid protocol. I am not sure how many dozens who do not, myself included. Tried it and was a no go. www.t-nation.com for the win. I tell people there to come here when they start asking questions about guns. 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 8:45:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2tired2run]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up the different studies I've read. I'll have to go through what I've printed again. I thought Arimidex increased T while reducing E. Is it the one that blocks T converting to E? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Originally Posted By bowhuntr09:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Based on what I have read I would like to try Arimidex first and go from there. Maybe throw in some HCG with it. I don't know what you have read, but Arimidex is used for lowering your estrogen level or more specifically blocking the conversion of T to E. It's typically only taken by males in conjunction with T injections to keep all that T from converting to E. Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up the different studies I've read. I'll have to go through what I've printed again. I thought Arimidex increased T while reducing E. Is it the one that blocks T converting to E? There is some evidence that anastrazol will help older men. In theory if you reduced your estradiol your endocrine system should respond by increasing LH/FSH to increase T production. All this assumes you're not primary. I don't know how effective this would be in younger men. Study: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/586804_4 |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:04:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
I have also wondered about that combo. I haven't seen any protocols/studies that involve that cocktail. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
What about combining Clomid and T-C in some way? Clomid is readily available... Any studies? I have also wondered about that combo. I haven't seen any protocols/studies that involve that cocktail. Check out Crisler's site, apparently he started using clomid as a monotherapy but there is some consensus that what you're saying might work. My concerns is that it scews with your estrogen/estradiol and can cause the same side effects as crashing your E2 with arimidex. That's what I'm experiencing on clomid, ED, achy joints weight gain etc. Frankly, unless you're wanting to maintain fertility I'm not sure I'd recommend clomid. My experiences have not been great. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 10:35:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run:
Check out Crisler's site, apparently he started using clomid as a monotherapy but there is some consensus that what you're saying might work. My concerns is that it scews with your estrogen/estradiol and can cause the same side effects as crashing your E2 with arimidex. That's what I'm experiencing on clomid, ED, achy joints weight gain etc. Frankly, unless you're wanting to maintain fertility I'm not sure I'd recommend clomid. My experiences have not been great. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
What about combining Clomid and T-C in some way? Clomid is readily available... Any studies? I have also wondered about that combo. I haven't seen any protocols/studies that involve that cocktail. Check out Crisler's site, apparently he started using clomid as a monotherapy but there is some consensus that what you're saying might work. My concerns is that it scews with your estrogen/estradiol and can cause the same side effects as crashing your E2 with arimidex. That's what I'm experiencing on clomid, ED, achy joints weight gain etc. Frankly, unless you're wanting to maintain fertility I'm not sure I'd recommend clomid. My experiences have not been great. I think I'll just stick with the hcg and test c. I I ever decide to stop test, I'll go hcg monotheropy. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2014 5:25:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up the different studies I've read. I'll have to go through what I've printed again. I thought Arimidex increased T while reducing E. Is it the one that blocks T converting to E? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Originally Posted By bowhuntr09:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Based on what I have read I would like to try Arimidex first and go from there. Maybe throw in some HCG with it. I don't know what you have read, but Arimidex is used for lowering your estrogen level or more specifically blocking the conversion of T to E. It's typically only taken by males in conjunction with T injections to keep all that T from converting to E. Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up the different studies I've read. I'll have to go through what I've printed again. I thought Arimidex increased T while reducing E. Is it the one that blocks T converting to E? Which can raise T two ways, 1) more T that is not converted to E and 2) lower E provides feedback loop to increase T. 2) is of course dependent upon ability which is a fine point many miss. You balls might not be able to create enough even if on HCG or an AI. Of course an AI has less impact than HCG but still same potential issue. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 8:18:31 PM EDT
[#25]
I have been on TRT for probably 10 years or more
I do Testosterone Cypinate and have for several years (prescribed by my FP) For the last few years I have had what I consider an issue with being more emotional that is reasonable and it has been getting progressively worse. At my physical recently I asked that he check my estrogen levels while checking my Testosterone levels. My total T was 574 (range 240-950) My estradiol (Enh-Mayo) was 84 (range 10-40) So when we went over my labs he said that it likely was the estrogen levels making me emotional and there really isn't much that can be done for it. Has anyone else dealt with this? |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 8:24:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pumbaajk]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By uafgrad:
I have been on TRT for probably 10 years or more I do Testosterone Cypinate and have for several years (prescribed by my FP) For the last few years I have had what I consider an issue with being more emotional that is reasonable and it has been getting progressively worse. At my physical recently I asked that he check my estrogen levels while checking my Testosterone levels. My total T was 574 (range 240-950) My estradiol (Enh-Mayo) was 84 (range 10-40) So when we went over my labs he said that it likely was the estrogen levels making me emotional and there really isn't much that can be done for it. Has anyone else dealt with this? Anastrozole / armidex controls estradiol. Looks like you also have a doctor that needs educated. Also, if you don't get that estrogen in check, your long term side effects are not going to be good. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 8:44:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Anastrozole / armidex controls estradiol. Looks like you also have a doctor that needs educated. Also, if you don't get that estrogen in check, your long term side effects are not going to be good. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By uafgrad:
I have been on TRT for probably 10 years or more I do Testosterone Cypinate and have for several years (prescribed by my FP) For the last few years I have had what I consider an issue with being more emotional that is reasonable and it has been getting progressively worse. At my physical recently I asked that he check my estrogen levels while checking my Testosterone levels. My total T was 574 (range 240-950) My estradiol (Enh-Mayo) was 84 (range 10-40) So when we went over my labs he said that it likely was the estrogen levels making me emotional and there really isn't much that can be done for it. Has anyone else dealt with this? Anastrozole / armidex controls estradiol. Looks like you also have a doctor that needs educated. Also, if you don't get that estrogen in check, your long term side effects are not going to be good. Yep He said that he read up on it and basically there was nothing that could be done 
Problem is, options are very limited here for doctors who are even willing to consider TRT |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 10:33:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By uafgrad:
Yep He said that he read up on it and basically there was nothing that could be done
Problem is, options are very limited here for doctors who are even willing to consider TRT Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By uafgrad:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By uafgrad:
I have been on TRT for probably 10 years or more I do Testosterone Cypinate and have for several years (prescribed by my FP) For the last few years I have had what I consider an issue with being more emotional that is reasonable and it has been getting progressively worse. At my physical recently I asked that he check my estrogen levels while checking my Testosterone levels. My total T was 574 (range 240-950) My estradiol (Enh-Mayo) was 84 (range 10-40) So when we went over my labs he said that it likely was the estrogen levels making me emotional and there really isn't much that can be done for it. Has anyone else dealt with this? Anastrozole / armidex controls estradiol. Looks like you also have a doctor that needs educated. Also, if you don't get that estrogen in check, your long term side effects are not going to be good. Yep He said that he read up on it and basically there was nothing that could be done
Problem is, options are very limited here for doctors who are even willing to consider TRT And that's the problem, finding a good Doc.
Mine got mad at me for getting my own blood test.
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Posted: 12/29/2014 10:41:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RedBones: And that's the problem, finding a good Doc. Mine got mad at me for getting my own blood test. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RedBones: Originally Posted By uafgrad: Originally Posted By pumbaajk: Originally Posted By uafgrad: I have been on TRT for probably 10 years or more I do Testosterone Cypinate and have for several years (prescribed by my FP) For the last few years I have had what I consider an issue with being more emotional that is reasonable and it has been getting progressively worse. At my physical recently I asked that he check my estrogen levels while checking my Testosterone levels. My total T was 574 (range 240-950) My estradiol (Enh-Mayo) was 84 (range 10-40) So when we went over my labs he said that it likely was the estrogen levels making me emotional and there really isn't much that can be done for it. Has anyone else dealt with this? Anastrozole / armidex controls estradiol. Looks like you also have a doctor that needs educated. Also, if you don't get that estrogen in check, your long term side effects are not going to be good. Yep He said that he read up on it and basically there was nothing that could be done Problem is, options are very limited here for doctors who are even willing to consider TRT And that's the problem, finding a good Doc. Mine got mad at me for getting my own blood test. I told him here in Pa we can legally, he is a transplant from another state. He was shocked, he said how am I going to enter and get that info, I said you get the labs you order, I pull my own blood work once a month, I told him he doesn't get to upload that info in the system, he might get to see it if I detect something not right. He's not handling my T therapy. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 11:12:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
I have heard that some docs will prescribe either Clomid or HCG (usually one or the other) for their T-injection/patch patients in an attempt to maintain some semblance of fertility. (Read a couple of studies, too.) I did the Clomid thing because I simply don't like injections and the patch made my T go down, not up. It has worked for me and I've kept my E down using things like EstroDIM (DIM+I3C). I didn't have any negative side effects, lost quite a bit of weight, regained a LOT of energy. In my case, since I stopped feeling like crap, my libido returned. I wasn't horny all the time as often happens with folks on the T-injection route, but it was good, and didn't have any of the emotional roller coaster ride that some have reported with T injections (and some with Clomid). YMMV. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
What about combining Clomid and T-C in some way? Clomid is readily available... Any studies? I have also wondered about that combo. I haven't seen any protocols/studies that involve that cocktail. I have heard that some docs will prescribe either Clomid or HCG (usually one or the other) for their T-injection/patch patients in an attempt to maintain some semblance of fertility. (Read a couple of studies, too.) I did the Clomid thing because I simply don't like injections and the patch made my T go down, not up. It has worked for me and I've kept my E down using things like EstroDIM (DIM+I3C). I didn't have any negative side effects, lost quite a bit of weight, regained a LOT of energy. In my case, since I stopped feeling like crap, my libido returned. I wasn't horny all the time as often happens with folks on the T-injection route, but it was good, and didn't have any of the emotional roller coaster ride that some have reported with T injections (and some with Clomid). YMMV. Just ordered DIM+13c are you take one daily or every other day? My estrogen is slowly creeping up and I'm starting to get night sweats. Thanks. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 12:42:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RedBones:
Just ordered DIM+13c are you take one daily or every other day? My estrogen is slowly creeping up and I'm starting to get night sweats. Thanks. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RedBones:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
What about combining Clomid and T-C in some way? Clomid is readily available... Any studies? I have also wondered about that combo. I haven't seen any protocols/studies that involve that cocktail. I have heard that some docs will prescribe either Clomid or HCG (usually one or the other) for their T-injection/patch patients in an attempt to maintain some semblance of fertility. (Read a couple of studies, too.) I did the Clomid thing because I simply don't like injections and the patch made my T go down, not up. It has worked for me and I've kept my E down using things like EstroDIM (DIM+I3C). I didn't have any negative side effects, lost quite a bit of weight, regained a LOT of energy. In my case, since I stopped feeling like crap, my libido returned. I wasn't horny all the time as often happens with folks on the T-injection route, but it was good, and didn't have any of the emotional roller coaster ride that some have reported with T injections (and some with Clomid). YMMV. Just ordered DIM+13c are you take one daily or every other day? My estrogen is slowly creeping up and I'm starting to get night sweats. Thanks. Generally I only take one a day. It seems to have kept my E levels in check. I'll probably do my own lab work after the first of the year and check to see where I'm at on everything to see if I need to adjust anything. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 2:34:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Well I had split the T shots into every 4 days.
Today is the 5th day after a 1/2 ml shot and I feel better than I have in a long time, libido climbing, no jittery feeling BP leveled out. I def think 1 ml per week is too much for me, I feel much better when my T is around 6 or 700 hundred. Who has adjusted their T down here? Also at 1 ml per week my free T and free T % is too high , when they both come down into range I feel great, this is an ongoing thing adjusting I guess? |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 5:17:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Well I had split the T shots into every 4 days. Today is the 5th day after a 1/2 ml shot and I feel better than I have in a long time, libido climbing, no jittery feeling BP leveled out. I def think 1 ml per week is too much for me, I feel much better when my T is around 6 or 700 hundred. Who has adjusted their T down here? Also at 1 ml per week my free T and free T % is too high , when they both come down into range I feel great, this is an ongoing thing adjusting I guess? I had already reduced my dosage from 60mg to 50mg 2x per week but my TT and FreeT were both still high. TT= 1045 and FreeT 38.6 (6.8-21.5). I was doing 50mg every 3 1/2 days. I switched that to every 5 days and was feeling much better and my T was 769 with E at 33.5. I was also doing 250 iu 2x per week of HCG. Anymore HCG than that and bad things happen. The only issue I have with 4 or 5 day schedule is remembering when I did the shot, so I either write it down or put it in my phone. Getting old sucks 
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Posted: 12/30/2014 5:38:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pumbaajk]
[#34]
Well fuck... Estradiol on second page and was 16. What really has me frustrated is the lh and fsh. Those numbers should not be that with the 500iu hcg. Or am I wrong with the hcg protocol here? Surely I don't have this shit backwards...
 </a>" />
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Posted: 12/31/2014 3:13:45 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By uafgrad:
Yep He said that he read up on it and basically there was nothing that could be done
Problem is, options are very limited here for doctors who are even willing to consider TRT Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By uafgrad:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By uafgrad:
I have been on TRT for probably 10 years or more I do Testosterone Cypinate and have for several years (prescribed by my FP) For the last few years I have had what I consider an issue with being more emotional that is reasonable and it has been getting progressively worse. At my physical recently I asked that he check my estrogen levels while checking my Testosterone levels. My total T was 574 (range 240-950) My estradiol (Enh-Mayo) was 84 (range 10-40) So when we went over my labs he said that it likely was the estrogen levels making me emotional and there really isn't much that can be done for it. Has anyone else dealt with this? Anastrozole / armidex controls estradiol. Looks like you also have a doctor that needs educated. Also, if you don't get that estrogen in check, your long term side effects are not going to be good. Yep He said that he read up on it and basically there was nothing that could be done
Problem is, options are very limited here for doctors who are even willing to consider TRT Arimidex is readily available. Google. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 3:22:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: EXPY37]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Well I had split the T shots into every 4 days. Today is the 5th day after a 1/2 ml shot and I feel better than I have in a long time, libido climbing, no jittery feeling BP leveled out. I def think 1 ml per week is too much for me, I feel much better when my T is around 6 or 700 hundred. Who has adjusted their T down here? Also at 1 ml per week my free T and free T % is too high , when they both come down into range I feel great, this is an ongoing thing adjusting I guess? I have adj up and also down. I can't find the 'sweet' spot and seem to shoot thru the best libido area in a few days. Ave right now is .35 ml [or 70 mg] every 4 days [of 200 mg/ml med]. I wish there were a way to quickly measure T and E2 at home like I do hematocrit. HCG at 625 iu every 4 days. I didn't know too much HCG was bad, as pointed out above. I keep a folded sheet of paper at each location, pinned to a wall, or magnetically stuck to a door, where I write down my reactions, date of dosages, future ones, on hand drawn lines with date and day on the left. Works. When I took them to both my docs, their complexity created instant credibility, altho they were impossible for the docs to understand...
When they wanted a copy I told them there was personal info on them, so I'd prefer not to have them copied. Now, the docs are good with my self measurement of HCT and wonder abt anyone who would do self-phlebotomy. 
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Posted: 12/31/2014 3:39:13 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk: Well fuck... Estradiol on second page and was 16. What really has me frustrated is the lh and fsh. Those numbers should not be that with the 500iu hcg. Or am I wrong with the hcg protocol here? Surely I don't have this shit backwards... http://<a href=http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg575/pumbaajk/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2014-12-30-15-34-38_zpstia7rpvc.png</a>" /> HCG mimics LH. I wasn't sure if it would show up in labs as LH but it seems pretty clear now that it doesn't. LH just tells your boys to produce testosterone. If your body has more T than it thinks it should it will shutdown the LH and FSH production. Seems that HCG works similar to T, just one step further back in the process and you are getting naturally produced T as an end result.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 8:41:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
That is also with using 100mg text-c per week. Does that change anything? HCG mimics LH. I wasn't sure if it would show up in labs as LH but it seems pretty clear now that it doesn't. LH just tells your boys to produce testosterone. If your body has more T than it thinks it should it will shutdown the LH and FSH production. Seems that HCG works similar to T, just one step further back in the process and you are getting naturally produced T as an end result. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Well fuck... Estradiol on second page and was 16. What really has me frustrated is the lh and fsh. Those numbers should not be that with the 500iu hcg. Or am I wrong with the hcg protocol here? Surely I don't have this shit backwards... http://<a href=http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg575/pumbaajk/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2014-12-30-15-34-38_zpstia7rpvc.png</a>" /> That is also with using 100mg text-c per week. Does that change anything? HCG mimics LH. I wasn't sure if it would show up in labs as LH but it seems pretty clear now that it doesn't. LH just tells your boys to produce testosterone. If your body has more T than it thinks it should it will shutdown the LH and FSH production. Seems that HCG works similar to T, just one step further back in the process and you are getting naturally produced T as an end result. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:07:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk: Originally Posted By SWIRE: Originally Posted By pumbaajk: Well fuck... Estradiol on second page and was 16. What really has me frustrated is the lh and fsh. Those numbers should not be that with the 500iu hcg. Or am I wrong with the hcg protocol here? Surely I don't have this shit backwards... http://<a href=http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg575/pumbaajk/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2014-12-30-15-34-38_zpstia7rpvc.png</a>" /> That is also with using 100mg text-c per week. Does that change anything? HCG mimics LH. I wasn't sure if it would show up in labs as LH but it seems pretty clear now that it doesn't. LH just tells your boys to produce testosterone. If your body has more T than it thinks it should it will shutdown the LH and FSH production. Seems that HCG works similar to T, just one step further back in the process and you are getting naturally produced T as an end result. Oh, that makes more sense then. Pretty much any dose of external T is going to shut down LH and FSH production. That still would seem to confirm that HCG doesn't affect the LH numbers in labs.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:23:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
Oh, that makes more sense then. Pretty much any dose of external T is going to shut down LH and FSH production. That still would seem to confirm that HCG doesn't affect the LH numbers in labs. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Well fuck... Estradiol on second page and was 16. What really has me frustrated is the lh and fsh. Those numbers should not be that with the 500iu hcg. Or am I wrong with the hcg protocol here? Surely I don't have this shit backwards... http://<a href=http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg575/pumbaajk/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2014-12-30-15-34-38_zpstia7rpvc.png</a>" /> That is also with using 100mg text-c per week. Does that change anything? HCG mimics LH. I wasn't sure if it would show up in labs as LH but it seems pretty clear now that it doesn't. LH just tells your boys to produce testosterone. If your body has more T than it thinks it should it will shutdown the LH and FSH production. Seems that HCG works similar to T, just one step further back in the process and you are getting naturally produced T as an end result. Oh, that makes more sense then. Pretty much any dose of external T is going to shut down LH and FSH production. That still would seem to confirm that HCG doesn't affect the LH numbers in labs. Sorry about the quote tree retardation. So since the hcg is not doing anything, how do I go about increasing the lh and fsh numbers? Am I going to be the Guinea pig for testosterone plus clomid? |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:52:22 AM EDT
[#41]
Well I have started feeling better with more sex drive and energy overall but have only been on it maybe 6 weeks. My wife (a nurse) thinks it is a placebo effect. I asked to my GP about issues with fertility and he referred me to a local urologist. My wife and I went yesterday and he says that my Total T wasn't severely low (313) and think that my weight gain over the last several years has caused it. I have lost 20 lbs recently and hope to continue. I also have hypertension and acid reflux, along with the recent sleep apnea. Like I said earlier I am not obese. I am 6'3" and an even 300 but most people gues 255-260 because it is very well distributed across my whole body.
He says that is opinion is that it is unlikely for the T to have taken that much hold this soon and very well could be a placebo effect. Of course that only validated my wife's opinion. He said that if I was concerned about having children I should discontinue the T for now and start exercising again and maintain my diet and see if weight loss and exercise brings the levels back up naturally. He believes that the further down the road I go the greater risk there is of irreversible damage to my fertility or will take much longer to get it back to normal. He rescheduled me for another T level in 3 months to see where we are. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 12:04:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Well I have started feeling better with more sex drive and energy overall but have only been on it maybe 6 weeks. My wife (a nurse) thinks it is a placebo effect. I asked to my GP about issues with fertility and he referred me to a local urologist. My wife and I went yesterday and he says that my Total T wasn't severely low (313) and think that my weight gain over the last several years has caused it. I have lost 20 lbs recently and hope to continue. I also have hypertension and acid reflux, along with the recent sleep apnea. Like I said earlier I am not obese. I am 6'3" and an even 300 but most people gues 255-260 because it is very well distributed across my whole body. He says that is opinion is that it is unlikely for the T to have taken that much hold this soon and very well could be a placebo effect. Of course that only validated my wife's opinion. He said that if I was concerned about having children I should discontinue the T for now and start exercising again and maintain my diet and see if weight loss and exercise brings the levels back up naturally. He believes that the further down the road I go the greater risk there is of irreversible damage to my fertility or will take much longer to get it back to normal. He rescheduled me for another T level in 3 months to see where we are. Good to hear that your feeling better. More than likely, your hypertension, acid reflux, and sleep apnea is caused by your weight. Unless your 6'6" or more or a professional meat head body builder, there is no reason to weigh that much. I will say as you continue to get your hormonal balance figured out, the weight will come off and you will see those other problems disappear. My dad had all those problems but they are one by one disappearing as the weight comes off. Just for clarification, your an inch and a half taller than me. I weigh 220 and wear a size 34 pants. Only reason I wear that size is because I have tree trunks for legs. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 12:14:39 PM EDT
[#43]
I know my weight is an issue. I have no doubt the bulk of it is my weight. I don't deny that. But trust me I was 220 and looked sick. My build is funny. I am just big everywhere. When I am down around 230-240 I still carry a 36 waist and 34 inseam. and 46 long jacket. I wear suits. Now at this weight I am only in 48 long jackets and 40x34 pants.
I was 250 when my wife and I got together, and we are foodies and dating involves eating and it was just "happy weight". Plus she is a great cook. ALL of my labs for cholesterol, sugar, etc are perfect strangely enough. I am just at an impasse about quitting and hope it doesn't send me back to the same cycle I was in and have to start all over. If I had kids already I wouldn't hesitate to stay on it. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 12:48:02 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Well I have started feeling better with more sex drive and energy overall but have only been on it maybe 6 weeks. My wife (a nurse) thinks it is a placebo effect. I asked to my GP about issues with fertility and he referred me to a local urologist. My wife and I went yesterday and he says that my Total T wasn't severely low (313) and think that my weight gain over the last several years has caused it. I have lost 20 lbs recently and hope to continue. I also have hypertension and acid reflux, along with the recent sleep apnea. Like I said earlier I am not obese. I am 6'3" and an even 300 but most people gues 255-260 because it is very well distributed across my whole body. He says that is opinion is that it is unlikely for the T to have taken that much hold this soon and very well could be a placebo effect. Of course that only validated my wife's opinion. He said that if I was concerned about having children I should discontinue the T for now and start exercising again and maintain my diet and see if weight loss and exercise brings the levels back up naturally. He believes that the further down the road I go the greater risk there is of irreversible damage to my fertility or will take much longer to get it back to normal. He rescheduled me for another T level in 3 months to see where we are. 6 weeks in I would expect the T to have some effect but and to be higher than 313. I would feel really crappy, at that number. What dosage are you on? I went on hcg monotherapy for about 6 weeks and leaned up really quickly. My concern would be with your T so low it's going to be really hard to take off the weight. Bust your ass in the gym and clean your diet up but if you don't see some results in about 4 weeks, I'd say your low T is what's holding you back. For the record most docs have no clue the kind of weight a reasonably dedicated person can take off in the gym, if everything else is working. I lost nearly 20 lbs in 4 weeks and one endo told me I was full of shit that couldn't be done. My T was over 900 then due to androgel. Before androgel it was in the 300's I was busting my ass in the gym and heading north of 225 at 5'10. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 5:08:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EXPY37]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Well I have started feeling better with more sex drive and energy overall but have only been on it maybe 6 weeks. My wife (a nurse) thinks it is a placebo effect. I asked to my GP about issues with fertility and he referred me to a local urologist. My wife and I went yesterday and he says that my Total T wasn't severely low (313) and think that my weight gain over the last several years has caused it. I have lost 20 lbs recently and hope to continue. I also have hypertension and acid reflux, along with the recent sleep apnea. Like I said earlier I am not obese. I am 6'3" and an even 300 but most people gues 255-260 because it is very well distributed across my whole body. He says that is opinion is that it is unlikely for the T to have taken that much hold this soon and very well could be a placebo effect. Of course that only validated my wife's opinion. He said that if I was concerned about having children I should discontinue the T for now and start exercising again and maintain my diet and see if weight loss and exercise brings the levels back up naturally. He believes that the further down the road I go the greater risk there is of irreversible damage to my fertility or will take much longer to get it back to normal. He rescheduled me for another T level in 3 months to see where we are. "He says that is opinion is that it is unlikely for the T to have taken that much hold this soon and very well could be a placebo effect..." These silly docs...
I saw the effect in about 3 or four days from low dose initial start on T-C, last summer. My lab tested estradiol jumped in a week [I did PrivateMDLabs testing frequently when I started, of my own initiative] Most have no idea what they're doing... Yet we all bow and scrape to them. 
'Cept me --and a few others... 
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Posted: 12/31/2014 5:14:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gotuonpaper: Well I have started feeling better with more sex drive and energy overall but have only been on it maybe 6 weeks. My wife (a nurse) thinks it is a placebo effect. I asked to my GP about issues with fertility and he referred me to a local urologist. My wife and I went yesterday and he says that my Total T wasn't severely low (313) and think that my weight gain over the last several years has caused it. I have lost 20 lbs recently and hope to continue. I also have hypertension and acid reflux, along with the recent sleep apnea. Like I said earlier I am not obese. I am 6'3" and an even 300 but most people gues 255-260 because it is very well distributed across my whole body. He says that is opinion is that it is unlikely for the T to have taken that much hold this soon and very well could be a placebo effect. Of course that only validated my wife's opinion. He said that if I was concerned about having children I should discontinue the T for now and start exercising again and maintain my diet and see if weight loss and exercise brings the levels back up naturally. He believes that the further down the road I go the greater risk there is of irreversible damage to my fertility or will take much longer to get it back to normal. He rescheduled me for another T level in 3 months to see where we are. What the fuck, I have no fat around anywhere , he says that I should wt 195 At 195 I look anorectic Those charts are for europe or somalia |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 5:16:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
I went to a endo to see whats causing BP to spike, I am 6'2" 224 lbs, he said I am border line obese? What the fuck, I have no fat around anywhere , he says that I should wt 195 At 195 I look anorectic Those charts are for europe or somalia Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Well I have started feeling better with more sex drive and energy overall but have only been on it maybe 6 weeks. My wife (a nurse) thinks it is a placebo effect. I asked to my GP about issues with fertility and he referred me to a local urologist. My wife and I went yesterday and he says that my Total T wasn't severely low (313) and think that my weight gain over the last several years has caused it. I have lost 20 lbs recently and hope to continue. I also have hypertension and acid reflux, along with the recent sleep apnea. Like I said earlier I am not obese. I am 6'3" and an even 300 but most people gues 255-260 because it is very well distributed across my whole body. He says that is opinion is that it is unlikely for the T to have taken that much hold this soon and very well could be a placebo effect. Of course that only validated my wife's opinion. He said that if I was concerned about having children I should discontinue the T for now and start exercising again and maintain my diet and see if weight loss and exercise brings the levels back up naturally. He believes that the further down the road I go the greater risk there is of irreversible damage to my fertility or will take much longer to get it back to normal. He rescheduled me for another T level in 3 months to see where we are. What the fuck, I have no fat around anywhere , he says that I should wt 195 At 195 I look anorectic Those charts are for europe or somalia Go on U-tube and watch some of the movies from the 30's...
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Posted: 12/31/2014 6:12:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk: So since the hcg is not doing anything, how do I go about increasing the lh and fsh numbers? Am I going to be the Guinea pig for testosterone plus clomid? How do you know the HCG isn't doing anything? The real test would come from getting your swimmers tested again. There is one very small study that says HCG use with testosterone might preserve fertility. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260550 I'm not sure LH and FSH would be good indicators in that situation. No need for a guinea pig to test testosterone and clomid. I already did that and the external T shut down my LH and FSH. Taking 50mg a day of clomid plus T injections twice a week my LH was 0.1 mIU/mL and FSH was 0.6 mIU/mL. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 7:16:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run:
6 weeks in I would expect the T to have some effect but and to be higher than 313. I would feel really crappy, at that number. What dosage are you on? I went on hcg monotherapy for about 6 weeks and leaned up really quickly. My concern would be with your T so low it's going to be really hard to take off the weight. Bust your ass in the gym and clean your diet up but if you don't see some results in about 4 weeks, I'd say your low T is what's holding you back. For the record most docs have no clue the kind of weight a reasonably dedicated person can take off in the gym, if everything else is working. I lost nearly 20 lbs in 4 weeks and one endo told me I was full of shit that couldn't be done. My T was over 900 then due to androgel. Before androgel it was in the 300's I was busting my ass in the gym and heading north of 225 at 5'10. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Well I have started feeling better with more sex drive and energy overall but have only been on it maybe 6 weeks. My wife (a nurse) thinks it is a placebo effect. I asked to my GP about issues with fertility and he referred me to a local urologist. My wife and I went yesterday and he says that my Total T wasn't severely low (313) and think that my weight gain over the last several years has caused it. I have lost 20 lbs recently and hope to continue. I also have hypertension and acid reflux, along with the recent sleep apnea. Like I said earlier I am not obese. I am 6'3" and an even 300 but most people gues 255-260 because it is very well distributed across my whole body. He says that is opinion is that it is unlikely for the T to have taken that much hold this soon and very well could be a placebo effect. Of course that only validated my wife's opinion. He said that if I was concerned about having children I should discontinue the T for now and start exercising again and maintain my diet and see if weight loss and exercise brings the levels back up naturally. He believes that the further down the road I go the greater risk there is of irreversible damage to my fertility or will take much longer to get it back to normal. He rescheduled me for another T level in 3 months to see where we are. 6 weeks in I would expect the T to have some effect but and to be higher than 313. I would feel really crappy, at that number. What dosage are you on? I went on hcg monotherapy for about 6 weeks and leaned up really quickly. My concern would be with your T so low it's going to be really hard to take off the weight. Bust your ass in the gym and clean your diet up but if you don't see some results in about 4 weeks, I'd say your low T is what's holding you back. For the record most docs have no clue the kind of weight a reasonably dedicated person can take off in the gym, if everything else is working. I lost nearly 20 lbs in 4 weeks and one endo told me I was full of shit that couldn't be done. My T was over 900 then due to androgel. Before androgel it was in the 300's I was busting my ass in the gym and heading north of 225 at 5'10. My starting number was 313. I haven't got results back from the second draw yet. I was on 50mg a day of Testim Gel. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 9:12:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
How do you know the HCG isn't doing anything? The real test would come from getting your swimmers tested again. There is one very small study that says HCG use with testosterone might preserve fertility. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260550 I'm not sure LH and FSH would be good indicators in that situation. No need for a guinea pig to test testosterone and clomid. I already did that and the external T shut down my LH and FSH. Taking 50mg a day of clomid plus T injections twice a week my LH was 0.1 mIU/mL and FSH was 0.6 mIU/mL. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
So since the hcg is not doing anything, how do I go about increasing the lh and fsh numbers? Am I going to be the Guinea pig for testosterone plus clomid? How do you know the HCG isn't doing anything? The real test would come from getting your swimmers tested again. There is one very small study that says HCG use with testosterone might preserve fertility. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260550 I'm not sure LH and FSH would be good indicators in that situation. No need for a guinea pig to test testosterone and clomid. I already did that and the external T shut down my LH and FSH. Taking 50mg a day of clomid plus T injections twice a week my LH was 0.1 mIU/mL and FSH was 0.6 mIU/mL. Thanks man. The wife is pregnant and this is our last one. I really don't care to be fertile per say but I just don't want my nuts to turn to mush and become uncomfortable like last time. |
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