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Posted: 12/1/2012 6:48:23 PM EDT
[#1]
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Ha! you would be at the suntarget place yeah?? Me too  Yeah. What line were you on? I was on right. We are at applebees right now. I am sipping a gin and tonic. |
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Posted: 12/1/2012 6:55:42 PM EDT
[#2]
I was on the left. And I am getting smarter by the minute I'm staying at a holiday inn express!!
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Posted: 12/1/2012 6:55:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Take some tylenol tonight and some in the morning.
If you're not used to getting in/out of those positions, you'll feel it tomorrow. Good on ya for going! -K9, Rifleman, October 2012 |
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Posted: 12/1/2012 6:57:46 PM EDT
[#4]
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I was on the left. And I am getting smarter by the minute I'm staying at a holiday inn express!! We are at best western. Not feeling smart. But the gin and tonic's hekping! |
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Posted: 12/1/2012 7:04:32 PM EDT
[#5]
I bet I saw a liquor store on the way back to the hotel but the hot tub was calling my name
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Posted: 12/1/2012 7:17:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Good shooting especially with the messed up sights. Sitting is also the hardest for me, being 6' tall and not very flexible is not an advantage. As I mentioned, today was my fourth Appleseed and I am still chasing the the patch. First AQT of the day I shot a 205
and my scores went down from there
We are shooting at an indoor range at 50ft using reduced to scale targets, the final stage slow fire targets are about the size of a dime, I will try to post a pic tomorrow. |
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Posted: 12/1/2012 7:34:14 PM EDT
[#7]
I will be wearig jeans and a navy colored hoodi and black and plaid baseball cap.
Also got the red and white "no pictures" tape on my hat and shoulders. Try and say hi tomorrow. |
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Posted: 12/1/2012 7:40:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Will do!!
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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:53:04 AM EDT
[#9]
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I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 7:19:58 AM EDT
[#10]
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I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. If they would have been open minded about the rifle I brought, I probably wouldn't have any heartache. It was a standard M4 rifle with an EoTech , vert foregrip, and 2pt sling. I removed the EoTech and used iron sights as per their instructions which I was ok with. Because of the rifle and sling I brought the instructors were unwilling to help me learn their techniques. They seemed thrown off that I didn't bring an M1 with a GI sling that I could attach to my arm. They even went as far as offering me a 22 to shoot so they could have an easier way to train me 
Anyways, I wish it would have been a better experience. They should have been more open minded to a rifle platform that is extremely common along with knowing how to adapt their training techniques to different types of gear. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:00:44 PM EDT
[#11]
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I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. If they would have been open minded about the rifle I brought, I probably wouldn't have any heartache. It was a standard M4 rifle with an EoTech , vert foregrip, and 2pt sling. I removed the EoTech and used iron sights as per their instructions which I was ok with. Because of the rifle and sling I brought the instructors were unwilling to help me learn their techniques. They seemed thrown off that I didn't bring an M1 with a GI sling that I could attach to my arm. They even went as far as offering me a 22 to shoot so they could have an easier way to train me
Anyways, I wish it would have been a better experience. They should have been more open minded to a rifle platform that is extremely common along with knowing how to adapt their training techniques to different types of gear. That's interesting, not sure when you attended but the ones I have been to in the last two years have all had the same instructors one is from Three forks/bozeman area and a very nice guy. I took my m4gery the first time as well and he didn't seem to have any problem with it or trying to help me improve my shooting abilities. The rest I have taken with my 10-22 for the sheer fact of ammo cost and it is a little easier to manage shooting for two straight days. BTW today was my day to earn the patch
Plenty of room for improvement but I broke the mark and shot rifleman. We were shooting at a reduced size target scaled for 50 feet at the indoor range. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:08:42 PM EDT
[#12]
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I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. If they would have been open minded about the rifle I brought, I probably wouldn't have any heartache. It was a standard M4 rifle with an EoTech , vert foregrip, and 2pt sling. I removed the EoTech and used iron sights as per their instructions which I was ok with. Because of the rifle and sling I brought the instructors were unwilling to help me learn their techniques. They seemed thrown off that I didn't bring an M1 with a GI sling that I could attach to my arm. They even went as far as offering me a 22 to shoot so they could have an easier way to train me
Anyways, I wish it would have been a better experience. They should have been more open minded to a rifle platform that is extremely common along with knowing how to adapt their training techniques to different types of gear. That's interesting, not sure when you attended but the ones I have been to in the last two years have all had the same instructors one is from Three forks/bozeman area and a very nice guy. I took my m4gery the first time as well and he didn't seem to have any problem with it or trying to help me improve my shooting abilities. The rest I have taken with my 10-22 for the sheer fact of ammo cost and it is a little easier to manage shooting for two straight days. BTW today was my day to earn the patch
http://www.hunt101.com/data/546/medium/DSCF4118.jpg Plenty of room for improvement but I broke the mark and shot rifleman. We were shooting at a reduced size target scaled for 50 feet at the indoor range. I took it a few years back in Threeforks. The only instructor I remember was "The Guy". That's what everyone called him and if I remember right he was from a state out east. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:13:34 PM EDT
[#13]
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I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. If they would have been open minded about the rifle I brought, I probably wouldn't have any heartache. It was a standard M4 rifle with an EoTech , vert foregrip, and 2pt sling. I removed the EoTech and used iron sights as per their instructions which I was ok with. Because of the rifle and sling I brought the instructors were unwilling to help me learn their techniques. They seemed thrown off that I didn't bring an M1 with a GI sling that I could attach to my arm. They even went as far as offering me a 22 to shoot so they could have an easier way to train me
Anyways, I wish it would have been a better experience. They should have been more open minded to a rifle platform that is extremely common along with knowing how to adapt their training techniques to different types of gear. That's interesting, not sure when you attended but the ones I have been to in the last two years have all had the same instructors one is from Three forks/bozeman area and a very nice guy. I took my m4gery the first time as well and he didn't seem to have any problem with it or trying to help me improve my shooting abilities. The rest I have taken with my 10-22 for the sheer fact of ammo cost and it is a little easier to manage shooting for two straight days. BTW today was my day to earn the patch
http://www.hunt101.com/data/546/medium/DSCF4118.jpg Plenty of room for improvement but I broke the mark and shot rifleman. We were shooting at a reduced size target scaled for 50 feet at the indoor range. I took it a few years back in Threeforks. The only instructor I remember was "The Guy". That's what everyone called him and if I remember right he was from a state out east. I wonder if it was Frec from Freds m14 stocks , he is the founder of the Apppleseed program and I have heard he can be a bit of an ass. We have had guest instructors from other places but mostly from the western states. Maybe it's just the east coast attitude 
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:15:56 PM EDT
[#14]
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I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. If they would have been open minded about the rifle I brought, I probably wouldn't have any heartache. It was a standard M4 rifle with an EoTech , vert foregrip, and 2pt sling. I removed the EoTech and used iron sights as per their instructions which I was ok with. Because of the rifle and sling I brought the instructors were unwilling to help me learn their techniques. They seemed thrown off that I didn't bring an M1 with a GI sling that I could attach to my arm. They even went as far as offering me a 22 to shoot so they could have an easier way to train me
Anyways, I wish it would have been a better experience. They should have been more open minded to a rifle platform that is extremely common along with knowing how to adapt their training techniques to different types of gear. That's interesting, not sure when you attended but the ones I have been to in the last two years have all had the same instructors one is from Three forks/bozeman area and a very nice guy. I took my m4gery the first time as well and he didn't seem to have any problem with it or trying to help me improve my shooting abilities. The rest I have taken with my 10-22 for the sheer fact of ammo cost and it is a little easier to manage shooting for two straight days. BTW today was my day to earn the patch
http://www.hunt101.com/data/546/medium/DSCF4118.jpg Plenty of room for improvement but I broke the mark and shot rifleman. We were shooting at a reduced size target scaled for 50 feet at the indoor range. I took it a few years back in Threeforks. The only instructor I remember was "The Guy". That's what everyone called him and if I remember right he was from a state out east. I wonder if it was Frec from Freds m14 stocks , he is the founder of the Apppleseed program and I have heard he can be a bit of an ass. We have had guest instructors from other places but mostly from the western states. Maybe it's just the east coast attitude
I have no clue. The guy was an ass. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:17:49 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm signed up for next weekend. Unfortunately I fear there will be too much to do in preps for the holiday and I won't be able to make it. I may have made a $70 donation since nobody responded to my request to cancel.
I've been waiting for a few years to do this. Maybe 2013 will be better. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:21:35 PM EDT
[#16]
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I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. If they would have been open minded about the rifle I brought, I probably wouldn't have any heartache. It was a standard M4 rifle with an EoTech , vert foregrip, and 2pt sling. I removed the EoTech and used iron sights as per their instructions which I was ok with. Because of the rifle and sling I brought the instructors were unwilling to help me learn their techniques. They seemed thrown off that I didn't bring an M1 with a GI sling that I could attach to my arm. They even went as far as offering me a 22 to shoot so they could have an easier way to train me
Anyways, I wish it would have been a better experience. They should have been more open minded to a rifle platform that is extremely common along with knowing how to adapt their training techniques to different types of gear. That's interesting, not sure when you attended but the ones I have been to in the last two years have all had the same instructors one is from Three forks/bozeman area and a very nice guy. I took my m4gery the first time as well and he didn't seem to have any problem with it or trying to help me improve my shooting abilities. The rest I have taken with my 10-22 for the sheer fact of ammo cost and it is a little easier to manage shooting for two straight days. BTW today was my day to earn the patch
http://www.hunt101.com/data/546/medium/DSCF4118.jpg Plenty of room for improvement but I broke the mark and shot rifleman. We were shooting at a reduced size target scaled for 50 feet at the indoor range. I took it a few years back in Threeforks. The only instructor I remember was "The Guy". That's what everyone called him and if I remember right he was from a state out east. I wonder if it was Frec from Freds m14 stocks , he is the founder of the Apppleseed program and I have heard he can be a bit of an ass. We have had guest instructors from other places but mostly from the western states. Maybe it's just the east coast attitude
Wow, that would be odd. The M4 is as much of a "doorkicker" gun as the retained M-14 these days. I dont think it is an east coast thing. The appleseeds that I have been to have had everything from MP5's to all sorts of AR, AK, and HK variants partaking in addition to M1A's, garands, and a whole galaxy of .22LR and surplus C&R rifles. I kind of want to try to qualify with a Masterpiece Arms MAC type carbine. They actually have a reputation for being very accurate, and have a good factory sight setup for the event. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:25:38 PM EDT
[#17]
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I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. If they would have been open minded about the rifle I brought, I probably wouldn't have any heartache. It was a standard M4 rifle with an EoTech , vert foregrip, and 2pt sling. I removed the EoTech and used iron sights as per their instructions which I was ok with. Because of the rifle and sling I brought the instructors were unwilling to help me learn their techniques. They seemed thrown off that I didn't bring an M1 with a GI sling that I could attach to my arm. They even went as far as offering me a 22 to shoot so they could have an easier way to train me
Anyways, I wish it would have been a better experience. They should have been more open minded to a rifle platform that is extremely common along with knowing how to adapt their training techniques to different types of gear. That's interesting, not sure when you attended but the ones I have been to in the last two years have all had the same instructors one is from Three forks/bozeman area and a very nice guy. I took my m4gery the first time as well and he didn't seem to have any problem with it or trying to help me improve my shooting abilities. The rest I have taken with my 10-22 for the sheer fact of ammo cost and it is a little easier to manage shooting for two straight days. BTW today was my day to earn the patch
http://www.hunt101.com/data/546/medium/DSCF4118.jpg Plenty of room for improvement but I broke the mark and shot rifleman. We were shooting at a reduced size target scaled for 50 feet at the indoor range. I took it a few years back in Threeforks. The only instructor I remember was "The Guy". That's what everyone called him and if I remember right he was from a state out east. I wonder if it was Frec from Freds m14 stocks , he is the founder of the Apppleseed program and I have heard he can be a bit of an ass. We have had guest instructors from other places but mostly from the western states. Maybe it's just the east coast attitude
I have no clue. The guy was an ass. I went on their site and found a pic of The Guy 
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:28:17 PM EDT
[#18]
I went on their site and found a pic of The Guy http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/chevy_sb350/Arfcom/sept192010025.jpg[/quote] Never seen any of those two here. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:30:40 PM EDT
[#19]
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I went on their site and found a pic of The Guy http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/chevy_sb350/Arfcom/sept192010025.jpg Never seen any of those two here. [/quote] Interesting. Who knows, I must have lucked out and got the shitty class.
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:38:51 PM EDT
[#20]
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I went on their site and found a pic of The Guy http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/chevy_sb350/Arfcom/sept192010025.jpg Never seen any of those two here. Interesting. Who knows, I must have lucked out and got the shitty class. [/quote]
The ones that my wife or I have been to, the leadership has been very specific to NOT comment or put down any thing or any one that shows up. I'm sure that like cranky RSO's at public ranges, you get a cranky asshole that cannot resist commenting, but I can tell you that in the organization that my wife was involved in, an appleseed volunteer who made a comment to that effect would not be returning after that day. They were hands down the most professional and controlled organization I have ever seen. EVERY word was carefully chosen and paced, It was kind of interesting to see, but the bottom line was that you tell it the appleseed way, and not your way, and that was the way it was going to be. I have to say that those guys had their shit together and really had a genuine enthusiasm and that I myself personally would not hack it. I was asked many times to volunteer, but I really had to tell them that my personality would show through eventually and they would probably kick me out and that I'd rather contribute financially and through indirect promotion such as making sure they could talk to my club, etc, etc. I'm DanTSX afterall, and eventually, I'm going to run my mouth and piss you off.
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:39:34 PM EDT
[#21]
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I went on their site and found a pic of The Guy http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/chevy_sb350/Arfcom/sept192010025.jpg Never seen any of those two here. Interesting. Who knows, I must have lucked out and got the shitty class. [/quote]
There will be another one here in April so if you can make it to Great Falls. BTW thanks Santa 
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Posted: 12/2/2012 4:40:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Patchouli, where was that held?
Now you have the basic skills, it's time to come out and shoot high power. Last Sunday of the month, Snoqualmie Rifle Club, 9 am. Club rifles are available if you don't have one suitable. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 5:05:59 PM EDT
[#23]
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I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. If they would have been open minded about the rifle I brought, I probably wouldn't have any heartache. It was a standard M4 rifle with an EoTech , vert foregrip, and 2pt sling. I removed the EoTech and used iron sights as per their instructions which I was ok with. Because of the rifle and sling I brought the instructors were unwilling to help me learn their techniques. They seemed thrown off that I didn't bring an M1 with a GI sling that I could attach to my arm. They even went as far as offering me a 22 to shoot so they could have an easier way to train me
Anyways, I wish it would have been a better experience. They should have been more open minded to a rifle platform that is extremely common along with knowing how to adapt their training techniques to different types of gear. That's very strange, and unfortunate. I just did one (my third) with a M17S, and all the guys thought it was a hoot. Took a while to figure out how to get a sling to work with it, though.
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Posted: 12/2/2012 5:08:26 PM EDT
[#24]
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I went on their site and found a pic of The Guy http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/chevy_sb350/Arfcom/sept192010025.jpg Never seen any of those two here. Interesting. Who knows, I must have lucked out and got the shitty class. There will be another one here in April so if you can make it to Great Falls. BTW thanks Santa
[/quote] Your welcome. I hope what santa brought you is stuff you can use. I have a few other dillos if you need them. I don't collect them, just use them.
I might be able to make it to GF, depends on my schedule of course. April is about the time we start to ramp up for fire season. I have family up there so at least I have a place to stay. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 5:11:15 PM EDT
[#25]
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I went on their site and found a pic of The Guy http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/chevy_sb350/Arfcom/sept192010025.jpg Never seen any of those two here. Interesting. Who knows, I must have lucked out and got the shitty class. There will be another one here in April so if you can make it to Great Falls. BTW thanks Santa
Your welcome. I hope what santa brought you is stuff you can use. I have a few other dillos if you need them. I don't collect them, just use them.
I might be able to make it to GF, depends on my schedule of course. April is about the time we start to ramp up for fire season. I have family up there so at least I have a place to stay.[/quote] Check your Im's |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 7:23:33 PM EDT
[#26]
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Patchouli, where was that held? Now you have the basic skills, it's time to come out and shoot high power. Last Sunday of the month, Snoqualmie Rifle Club, 9 am. Club rifles are available if you don't have one suitable. This was in Yakima. I would like to do a highpower match some time. I will read up on it. Thanks. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 7:26:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Just got back from the event.
Gotta unpack and everything. Will talk more about it later. Got 167 on aqt with the 10/22. Had good groups most of the time, but they were frequently outside the smaller targets due to my guessing at an aimpoint. Now that I know what to practice , I will update my rifle and try some time again. Was fun. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 7:26:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Db tap
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Posted: 12/2/2012 8:39:55 PM EDT
[#29]
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Just got back from the event. Gotta unpack and everything. Will talk more about it later. Got 167 on aqt with the 10/22. Had good groups most of the time, but they were frequently outside the smaller targets due to my guessing at an aimpoint. Now that I know what to practice , I will update my rifle and try some time again. Was fun. 167 your first time with a messed up rifle is nothing to sneeze at, you obviously have the skills but just need a little fine tuning of yourself and your equipment. Get your rifle fixed with decent sights/optics and practice the fundamentals. Concentrate on making good shots instead of trying to beat the clock and getting all your rounds downrange. The speed will come with practice, but accuracy is more important. Take a look at the target I posted above, it looks ok but there is a lot of room for improvement still. Just missing one or two shots when you get that close can make or break your rifleman score. I was consistently shooting 190+ and several within one good hit of breaking 210 (205,208,206) Stick with it and you will make it, it took me four Appleseeds to shoot rifleman. I was plagued with equipment problems as well as trying to unlearn a lifetime of bad shooting habits. Each event helped me to get closer to the goal. I plan on continuing in the program as I shoot free being a Vet, and they asked me to become an orange hat since I was so dedicated and familiar with the program.
If you are interested in some Tech sights for your rifle send me an IM. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:16:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: That looks good. I tell you what, for me, day two way the day that everything just came together. Enjoy. I hope so. I am struggling with the sitting position. Just can't find a good position. I feel like they don't give enough time to practice the demonstrated techniques. It seems that they give a group demo, then they release you to the line for about a 2min get into position session. Then t's like , "okay, hurry up and shoot 2, 3,reload, 5. Okay next group demo" I shot a lot of smallbore competitively growing up. sitting is the only position which I had some issues regarding their preferred technique. they taught us cross legged which is fine, as well as ankled and then knees bent in descending order or quality. There are plenty of shooters who prefer to keep their knees bent and partially extended for a wider stability base at the expense of less dependence on bone structure and more of muscle. When I shoot sitting I always make sure that I lock my rear leg into my front, which is generally contrary to what they teach, I also cant my torso about 20 degrees or so and really curl up around the gun, I find it solid as a rock. I believe shootingvoodoo.com has a nice piece on his sitting technique which is also quite good. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:48:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Have fun! That Rifleman rank and patch are harder to earn than 87% of Arfcom believes. Replace that busted sight with a set of TechSites, and oh yeah, a sling for your rifle is helpful for this style of shooting. And yeah, mat to lie on, elbow pads, at least two mags, 500 rnds of .22, water, open mind, etc. Don't be silly, man. It ain't hard. Hell, it ain't even real training. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:54:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Did you earn the patch? |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 11:59:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Haven't been to an appleseed shoot myself, but I did find the targets online as a .pdf. Friend had a printer that would take 11X14 paper. Took my Savage 93 in .17 HMR. Either the ammo sucks or the scope sucks, but at 25m it wasn't grouping worth a darn, even off the bench. I shot 3 position small bore all through junior high and high school. Back then I got used to shooting with a jacket, a tourniquet...err... I mean a sling, a glove, and a rifle with a handstop. I was using the club's Remington 540 target model. So trying to practice with the .17 HMR felt weird without all that gear.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:06:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Anyone that I talk to in person that scoffs at Appleseed I tack up a one inch square at 25 yards and have them try to make the hit. Frontiersmen could do it with a smoothbore black powder rifle 200 years ago, You certainly should be able to.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:18:42 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The most important thing you better bring tomorrow is a good attitude and sense of humor. If he is seriously considering attending with that rifle, he already has plenty of both...
Well said! 
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:41:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Anyone that I talk to in person that scoffs at Appleseed I tack up a one inch square at 25 yards and have them try to make the hit. Frontiersmen could do it with a smoothbore black powder rifle 200 years ago, You certainly should be able to. I have doubts that this would be possible repeatable with smoothbore muskets. (rifles have rifling) . I Need to do some reading up. http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2010/09/23/featured_rifles_bess_092407/ Interesting tests and the following excerpt : From rifleshooternag.com: "Accuracy of the smoothbore musket was acknowledged, even at the period, to be somewhat lacking. In the 1814 To All Sportsmen, Colonel George Hanger wrote, “A soldier’s musket, if not exceedingly ill-bored (as many are), will strike a figure of a man at 80 yards; it may even at a hundred; but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards, providing his antagonist aims at him; and as to firing at a man at 200 yards with a common musket, you may as well fire at the moon and have the same hope of hitting him. I do maintain and will prove…that no man was ever killed at 200 yards, by a common musket, by the person who aimed at him.” |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:44:32 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
My experience,mand my wife's ( orange hat ) was opposite. And we fired about 400-500 / day. Not saying you are wrong at all. But yeah, she had a s&w factory pro on the line. Got outshot by a kid who listened to the instructors Where did you shoot at an Appleseed with a 800 to 1000 round count for the 2 day weekend? It is pretty much unpossible without a serious deviation from the Instructors Manual POI. We don't expect students to bring more than 500 rounds for the whole weekend. I am not following your point. What does a kid outshooting your wife have to do with rifles that can't shoot 4MOA except for on a good day? Without a damaged or otherwise totally unserviceable muzzle, I am not aware of any common rifle which will not hold sub 4MOA any day of the year. You can even still make Rifleman if you can't do much better than 4MOA, anyway.
Aside from a couple lucky pairs, most of those groups were at least 1" in size.
ETA: That was after my 2nd Appleseed, and dang I'm a post whore on this thread! 
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:49:09 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sounds like a buncha fudds running the event at that location. The two I've attended (TX and OK) were nothing like that. |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:53:13 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. If they would have been open minded about the rifle I brought, I probably wouldn't have any heartache. It was a standard M4 rifle with an EoTech , vert foregrip, and 2pt sling. I removed the EoTech and used iron sights as per their instructions which I was ok with. Because of the rifle and sling I brought the instructors were unwilling to help me learn their techniques. They seemed thrown off that I didn't bring an M1 with a GI sling that I could attach to my arm. They even went as far as offering me a 22 to shoot so they could have an easier way to train me
Anyways, I wish it would have been a better experience. They should have been more open minded to a rifle platform that is extremely common along with knowing how to adapt their training techniques to different types of gear. That's interesting, not sure when you attended but the ones I have been to in the last two years have all had the same instructors one is from Three forks/bozeman area and a very nice guy. I took my m4gery the first time as well and he didn't seem to have any problem with it or trying to help me improve my shooting abilities. The rest I have taken with my 10-22 for the sheer fact of ammo cost and it is a little easier to manage shooting for two straight days. BTW today was my day to earn the patch
http://www.hunt101.com/data/546/medium/DSCF4118.jpg Plenty of room for improvement but I broke the mark and shot rifleman. We were shooting at a reduced size target scaled for 50 feet at the indoor range. That explains why your patch was so huge. 
Great work! |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:54:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I went to one and I thought it sucked. The instructors were making fun of my rifle , Stag M4, and one of the instructors wouldn't leave me alone. They said my rifle is for "kicking doors down" and not for shooting long distance. I countered and mentioned that its a good thing we are only shooting at 25 yards. Sorry to hear you had jack asses for instructors. All the instructors at the Appleseeds I've attended have been super helpful and very good about helping folks no matter what they shoot. In talking with them a number of them have taken high speed tactical classes too so definitely aren't one trick ponies. If you can get past that experience try one with different instructors. If they would have been open minded about the rifle I brought, I probably wouldn't have any heartache. It was a standard M4 rifle with an EoTech , vert foregrip, and 2pt sling. I removed the EoTech and used iron sights as per their instructions which I was ok with. Because of the rifle and sling I brought the instructors were unwilling to help me learn their techniques. They seemed thrown off that I didn't bring an M1 with a GI sling that I could attach to my arm. They even went as far as offering me a 22 to shoot so they could have an easier way to train me
Anyways, I wish it would have been a better experience. They should have been more open minded to a rifle platform that is extremely common along with knowing how to adapt their training techniques to different types of gear. That's interesting, not sure when you attended but the ones I have been to in the last two years have all had the same instructors one is from Three forks/bozeman area and a very nice guy. I took my m4gery the first time as well and he didn't seem to have any problem with it or trying to help me improve my shooting abilities. The rest I have taken with my 10-22 for the sheer fact of ammo cost and it is a little easier to manage shooting for two straight days. BTW today was my day to earn the patch
http://www.hunt101.com/data/546/medium/DSCF4118.jpg Plenty of room for improvement but I broke the mark and shot rifleman. We were shooting at a reduced size target scaled for 50 feet at the indoor range. I took it a few years back in Threeforks. The only instructor I remember was "The Guy". That's what everyone called him and if I remember right he was from a state out east. I wonder if it was Frec from Freds m14 stocks , he is the founder of the Apppleseed program and I have heard he can be a bit of an ass. We have had guest instructors from other places but mostly from the western states. Maybe it's just the east coast attitude
Wow, that would be odd. The M4 is as much of a "doorkicker" gun as the retained M-14 these days. I dont think it is an east coast thing. The appleseeds that I have been to have had everything from MP5's to all sorts of AR, AK, and HK variants partaking in addition to M1A's, garands, and a whole galaxy of .22LR and surplus C&R rifles. I kind of want to try to qualify with a Masterpiece Arms MAC type carbine. They actually have a reputation for being very accurate, and have a good factory sight setup for the event. ...or a Hi-Point carbine?
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:59:28 AM EDT
[#41]
How critical is it that you have a sling? My 10/22 stock doesn't have the attachments for one.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 12:04:15 PM EDT
[#42]
I found it mostly boring and hated the woman teaching it. Me and my gf left after lunch.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 12:29:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Sling is a must.
They heavily focus on it and it helps to stabilize. I screwed on sling mount studs and got a cheap web sling. They showed us how to do adjustments, but really only gave us a miniscule amount of time to try different adjustments. It was always, "shooters, hurry! You have 60 seconds to prep" This prep included practicing the technique they had only just demonstrated, and of course trying to adjust your position and equipment. Then it's a rush to hurry up and fire. Then after the firing there is no target analysis to see how you are doing or where you can make improvements. You just tear it down and put up a new one. "Hurryy! Shooters!" |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 12:30:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
How critical is it that you have a sling? My 10/22 stock doesn't have the attachments for one. You can buy sling studs and mount them with a drill for like 12-15$ Or my friend just got some eye screws and screwed them into his stock. |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:31:09 PM EDT
[#45]
I plan on doing my 3rd one next year, maybe take my wife along for her first time, but she's really really new to guns, so I dunno if she's quite ready for the intensity of it.
My first two 'seeds I did with a horribly inaccurate AR15 with .223. The second was with a horribly unreliable .22 Conversion kit in a different AR. I have a Marlin Mod 60 that I might use if I can figure out a good way to load that dang tube mag quickly. I'm a bit gunshy about doing another one with the 'wrong' rifle. I am really fighting the urge to just go buy a 10/22 and set it up right as a proper LTR just for Appleseed... |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:01:45 PM EDT
[#46]
I'm doing my first Winterseed in January. I'm pretty excited.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:17:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
I plan on doing my 3rd one next year, maybe take my wife along for her first time, but she's really really new to guns, so I dunno if she's quite ready for the intensity of it. My first two 'seeds I did with a horribly inaccurate AR15 with .223. The second was with a horribly unreliable .22 Conversion kit in a different AR. I have a Marlin Mod 60 that I might use if I can figure out a good way to load that dang tube mag quickly. I'm a bit gunshy about doing another one with the 'wrong' rifle. I am really fighting the urge to just go buy a 10/22 and set it up right as a proper LTR just for Appleseed... Get a 10-22 the tube mags are not your friend. Maybe trade the marlin in for a 10-22? |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:22:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: I found it mostly boring and hated the woman teaching it. Me and my gf left after lunch. Didn't do well, huh. |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:23:34 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Gimme a holler. The offer of a loaner LTR still stands.I plan on doing my 3rd one next year, maybe take my wife along for her first time, but she's really really new to guns, so I dunno if she's quite ready for the intensity of it. My first two 'seeds I did with a horribly inaccurate AR15 with .223. The second was with a horribly unreliable .22 Conversion kit in a different AR. I have a Marlin Mod 60 that I might use if I can figure out a good way to load that dang tube mag quickly. I'm a bit gunshy about doing another one with the 'wrong' rifle. I am really fighting the urge to just go buy a 10/22 and set it up right as a proper LTR just for Appleseed... |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:27:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I found it mostly boring and hated the woman teaching it. Me and my gf left after lunch. Didn't do well, huh.
No offense, but you seem to be hung up on "the patch". From what I gather, it's about learning technique, fundamentals, and heritage rather than making the patch the main goal. |
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