it all has carbon in it therefore its all organic

I would agree except most people that tend to eat organic, grass fed beef, free range chicken etc tend to be healthier.  I love how the high blood pressure, diabetic fat bodies always love to talk crap about the healthy eaters habits.  I eat healthy but I don't worry too much about whether or not produce is organic, I don't think it matters much.  I do however try to eat grass fed beef because cows aren't supposed to eat grains.

In this thread, Clueless Citiots and backyard gardeners, argue about Agriculture....because they read an article, and have researched several Blogs.

70%+ of the Organic labeled shit in any store or farm market, is fraudulent.

The ENTIRE Organic movement is fraudulent, has proven to be so many times, and continues to be nothing more than hype marketing, to citiots that are three generations removed from knowing what food is, and where it comes from.

The largest Organic fertilizer supplier in the country, was busted for selling fraudulent fertilizer, that was tainted(by Organic std.)use of conventional N,P,K,, to over a hundred thousand certified Organic growers.

Despite having the customer lists available, the USDA Organic Hippies did NOT decertify, a single one that had used the tainted fertilizer.


Head to any farm market, and there will be vendors selling "Organic" produce, that was purchased from conventional growers.
One Huckster that buys form me, has bragged about selling my fruit as Organic, several times.
There is zero enforcement. None.

Third party auditors that sign off on Organic Certs, do NOT get paid unless the grower is certified.
All this "You don't know how hard it is to get certified" bullshit, is exactly mule fritters.
0-Certified depends on how fast you can fill out the check, and hand over the fudged documentation.

Another Organic "Farm" about 6 miles from here, is on the dredging's from a local river, that was done back in the early 70's, and 1/4 mile downstream from a Paper mill.
The Shitcago dipshits line up to buy their "Organic Produce" all summer.
Soil history? yeah, zero accountability, and zero enforcement.

The deadliest Produce contamination event in U.S. history?
Yep...you guessed it. Organic.

My neighbor down the road, has an Organic side to one of his fields and has tried to play the game legit.

He recently discovered that in the process of spraying his Organic field, he had contaminated his conventional field with heavy metal laden "Organic Sulfur".
Guess what. No De-certification. He did however do the right thing, and put all of that fruit on the ground.

Eat what you like, and waste your $$$ how you choose.
Just don't expect people not to point and laugh, when you reject reality, and smugly claim your fantasy bullshit, is somehow the intellectual or moral high ground.

http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/01/is-organic-food-really-organic/
http://www.atlanticfarmfocus.ca/Canada%2520/%2520World/2013-01-10/article-3154006/CFIA-doesnt-test-organics-with-its-logo/1
http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2012/09/09/usda-employs-lax-oversight-organic-farms

http://www.thepacker.com/opinion/fresh-produce-opinion/letter_organic_industry_needs_mandatory_testing_of_operations_122026099.html

http://grist.org/organic-food/2011-05-18-california-how-a-fake-organic-fertilizer-bamboozled-farmers/full/

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/organic-fertilizer-maker-pleads-guilty-to-fraud/

http://www.rappler.com/nation/35650-sandiganbayan-arrest-warrant-dimaporo

http://www.belch.com/blog/2013/09/26/organic-farmers-arrested-for-cantaloupe-listeria-outbreak/

http://www.isitorganic.ca/


The Organic movement is as much of a mental disorder, and religion, as liberalism.
Both rely on the ignorance of folks, who have no clue how food is produced, and a shitload of slander, lies, and junk science, to sell the narrative.

The thought of hippies spending more $$$ to literally eat shit...makes me smile.

Grass fed steak I have eaten is not as tender as properly grain fattened and properly marbled meat.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but the highlighted is another unfounded thought consumers have that producers take advantage of.

Cows are a ruminant, so they can eat many things.  Sometimes they are down in the woods eating tree leaves.  They love kudzu.  If they see a cornfield, they will run right through the grass to get to it.  It's like saying you'll only find monkeys in a banana grove.

There's no hard rule that cows are meant to eat grass, and that anything else is 'un-natural'.  Hell, cows aren't even supposed to be here, they're alien.  Cortez brought them over.

FWIW, all the beeves we eat from our herd are finished on grass, because I'm too cheap to buy sack feed, and I've usually got plenty of grass.  I've had some more marbled and juicy than grain-fed, and I've had some that should be made into boots.  It all depends on the genetics of the individual.

I'll concede that cows will eat more than just grass but they are not supposed to eat grain only.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2012/11/07/organic-agricultures-bitter-taste-or-is-organic-agriculture-affluent-narcissism/

I am a farmer by trade and I get the whole deal about people wanting to limit pesticide exposures (don't think organic is gonna help them) but I can't for the life of me understand why using mineral fertilizer is such a bad thing.

Feed lots don't feed only grains.....

What about organic feminine products.
Jessica Alba.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3180346/Jessica-Alba-s-billion-dollar-empire-gets-bigger-Actress-expands-Honest-Company-new-range-organic-tampons-feminine-hygiene-products.html

This is bad because girls will still die of toxic shock if they leave them in too long, but the organic and natural labels give a false sense of security about TSS. Just read an article where a dipshit in California slept with her natural tampon and got TSS and lost a leg so now the stupid whore is suing everybody over it.

 
Not to mention. Non "organic" fruit and vegetables are larger and tastier. Typically.

That's because you're not chewing a worm in it because they couldn't spray.


In other news, GMOs are everywhere.  In the 40s, I think, a gentleman from Iowa culled horns out of Hereford cattle.  Now we have polled and horned Hereford.  Modified those genetics, you know.

It's been going on for a LONG time.

That's not hard for me, considering it's about 50% to 100% more expensive than conventional produce in my experience.



For example, I bought bananas the other day at about 60 cents a pound.  The organic bananas were almost twice as much AND they were already turning brown.



 

Ya that's the way it's legally used, you know,  by government agencies who license people to spray the stuff.

Um, grains are members of the...wait for it...grass family.



 

Not to mention the modern cow, thanks to selective inbreeding, is pretty far removed from the wild bovines which were hunted and eaten by our Paleo ancestors.



 

I pretty much do the organic thing in my garden because i am too lazy to spray.
I do prefer my grown food over the store bought stuff.

We do too for the same reason. I just can't figure out why it last longer. Can it be the container?

Been asked and answered.  It's the pasteurization process, nothing to do with the cows getting anti biotics or not.

 
GMOs are fucking great. I can't stand this bullshit hippy movement that genetically modified foods are bad.


People act like you're eating a chunk of enriched uranium or some shit.

Yes, but they aren't "Grass" like your lawn. Lawn grass makes an Angus tasty, healthy, and happy, unlike toxic corn, which kills everything, and is the cause of the Grain bin Rats going extinct.

Yeah, corn, native to the America's, eaten by cattle and hogs, which are non-native.  MIND BLOWN!!!!!

No Einstein. I said it justifies the extra cost. And if you would have read a little further you would have noticed I said I had no opinon about if it made the food better.

I'm going to tell you what's ORGANIC.  It's something you make for your ownself to eat.

For example, we have a game that we strive to reach 100% of supper harvested on our farm from our labor.

You can never reach it, because you need stuff like mustard and pepper, and nobody wants to grow that stuff.

But the other day, we had venison brats I killed, cut up and stuffed, brat buns my wife made, sauerkraut I fermented from our cabbage, fried taters from the garden, along with all the cukes, etc.

Hell, we even had Limoncello for afters that I brewed.  (for the record, I didn't distill the Vodka)

Now, THAT's organic.

It's three years to transition from conventional to organic. The transition period is the toughest because your crop isn't organic so can't sell it as such but it looks like shit so you can't sell it as traditional..

The trick is to load it up with synthetic fertilizers and if you are doing fruit trees soil sterilants right before you start the "transition" this way you kinda get a free year.

A pesticide is a pesticide weather it's organic or not.

I use a product called success to kill cherry fruit fly and swd in cherries. It also is called Entrust. Only difference in the two, Entrust is labeled as organic. Entrust costs a lot more, but you get a shorter pre harvest interval, but it is the same exact active ingredient.

Blogs are probably the worst sources of information, unless they happen to reference peer reviewed or otherwise serious material written by real experts. Even with real experts you have to question motives, interests, bias, etc. The worst is people who make blanket statements and berate others because the are the all mighty, all knowing authority on a subject. Those people usually aren't the ones you want to put your full faith in.

Thanks for the links.

Yeah, he'd be surprised to find out what feed lots use as "feed" and how well thought out their choices are.

The family dairy has a nutritionist who sets the ratios of various feeds to acquire the best milk yield and healthiest cows. There is a lot that goes into it

That sounds delicious!

First world City Slicker problems.

So increased input costs justify a higher price regardless of whether or not the product is better? Am I reading what you said correctly now?

If I have my economics right, you can only pass along input costs to consumers when a thing is NOT a commodity.  Organic and all the other special labels are trying to NOT be a commodity, like commercial beef and corn are.

But is the increased price worth it? For it not to be a scam, it should be worth more than it's less expensive counterpart. Is some organic corn better than other, or is all organic corn fungible? If so, then it's still a commodity just higher priced than conventional corn.

I believe you answered your own question.

Special labels are a trade group's attempt to set themselves apart from their base commodity, and justify higher prices.  Is Certified Angus Beef better?  I don't think so, but I'm just one guy.  That sticker on the package makes people willing to pay an extra $2 a pound.  But in the end, it's still just a sticker.