Didn't we also hate Armalite, ASA, and Kac as well?

Unless there are high up corporate reps (or people who are involved in real decision making) at the booth, how is yelling at or arguing with the people there any different that some douche yelling at a Chickfila drive through girl?  I get wanting to communicate frustration and anger to a "company" but there are better ways to do it than attacking employees.

Ill call "in" before someone shows up and tells me how much more serious the 2nd amendment is than gays and birth control, as if I dont know.

Dont know about SA but a poster a few pages back stopped at RRA booth yesterday and spoke with owner.


..."After my conversation with the owner of RRA today at his booth and his salespeople on the floor agreeing that this is a crappy bill (they understood my desire not to purchase any more of their products if true), I am completely convinced that there is much more to this story than what we have been given.

I won't go into the detail of what I was told about the purse swinging that seems to be going on behind the scene with the companies and an individual because I cannot confirm or deny the allegations. There is seemingly some serious conflict going on and it may be a case of a private issue having now gone public. I was told that there would be rather direct, frank conversations happening between these entities this evening. "...

Antis win 4 fold. Limited rights for us, money for the license, crowd out small dealers,and customer backlash will destroy both Companies.
How these 2 companies didn't see this is beyond stupid. WTF!

I don't think anybody should be yelled at, but expressing your dissatisfaction with the company to those who are representing the company is perfectly fine. They can report back to those higher ups and tell them what their customers feel about it. Otherwise, how else would we get the message across to the people making the decision?

The company that made the Hillary hole is Saf-T-Hammer. That happened after the buyout from the Brits.

There's a large difference in representatives of a company at a trade show and an hourly employee taking orders in a retail establishment.

Obviously they may not all be decision makers since SA is a relatively large company in the gun industry, but they are at the show as representatives of the company.

Maybe the anti's figured it out.

We eat our own when it comes to following bullshit laws. No support for the guy who had a "machine gun" and "should have known better.

When it comes to backing politicians, companies, and law enforcement that have screwed us over in one sense or the other, we're called "butthurt" instead of addressing the issue straight on.

Honestly if it weren't for the NRA holding us all together we would all have individual values that would drive us apart.

Email I just got from ISRA which is interesting....

SPECIAL ALERT - GUN DEALER LICENSING BILL PERPETRATORS AND VICTIMS

PLEASE READ
As many of you know, the Illinois Senate recently passed a gun dealer licensing bill (SB1657) that has caused quite a stir in the gun-owning community.  The ISRA believes that it is very important that you, the law-abiding gun owner, understand just who the perpetrator behind this bill is, and who the bill's victims are:

Victim #1 - The Law Abiding Gun Owner.  If SB1657 is eventually signed into law, the biggest loser will be the law-abiding gun owner.  The bill would place an enormous regulatory burden on any entity determined to be a "gun dealer."  Under the bill, a "gun dealer" is any entity that sells 9 or more guns per year.  The cost of compliance with the bill's requirements would add anywhere from $150 to $300 to the retail price of any new firearm.  Many current gun dealers would find it pointless to remain in business.  As a result, Illinois gun owners may find themselves having to drive hundreds of miles to find a dealer still in business.  It's important to note that the 9-gun limit also applies to private parties who sell 9 or more guns per year.  Therefore, someone trying to sell off their gun collection would have to be licensed by the state and suffer all the regulatory requirements that full-fledged gun shops encounter.  In short, most Illinois gun owners would find that their right to keep and bear arms had been effectively nullified.

Victim #2 - The Independent Gun Retailer.  If passed, SB1657 would require firearm retailers to drastically alter their business processes.  Such would include upgraded training for employees, updated security systems, and increased expenditure of staff-hours dedicated to government inspections of their stores.  The net result would be a significant increase in fixed overhead costs for independent retailers.  Increased overhead costs would be passed along to customers in the form of higher retailer prices to the tune of $150 to $300 per gun.  Increased gun prices would artificially drive down demand for firearms by the law-abiding public.  In effect, SB1657 would establish a tax on a Constitutional right.  It should be noted that "big box" retailers are exempted from the bill's requirements because their gun sales do not exceed 20% of gross yearly sales for all lines.  The exemption puts independent dealers at a serious competitive disadvantage - further driving the demise of independent gun shops.  Having very little skin in the game could prompt the big box retailers to withdraw entirely from the firearms market - thus leaving Illinois citizens with no accessibility to firearms.

Victim #3 - Illinois Firearm Manufacturers.  Under the original version of the Senate bill, firearm manufacturers would have to comply with the licensing bill as well.  The costs to manufacturers would be prohibitive and they would have to move out of state or shut down.


The Perpetrator:- Sen. Don Harmon (D-Oak Park).  

Harmon represents one of several gerrymandered districts designed to neutralize west-suburban Republican power.  A self-proclaimed "progressive," Harmon sees himself as a dragon slayer of sorts with the ISRA being on top of his list of dragons to slay.  Since becoming President Pro Tempore of the Illinois Senate, Harmon has launched incessant attacks on the NRA, the ISRA, and lawful gun owners in general.  It is now abundantly clear that Harmon's goal is to abolish civilian firearm ownership in Illinois.

Harmon's commitment to eliminating private firearm ownership is evidenced by the company he keeps.  Harmon is especially cozy with anti-gun crackpots Mark Kelly and Gabby Giffords.  Since September 2016, Harmon and his anti-gun cronies in the Senate have accepted over $600,000 in donations and lobbying support from Giffords to ram SB1657 right down your throat.

Harmon's Caspar Milquetoast appearance belies a shrewd, vindictive man driven by an obsessive dislike for guns and the people who own them.  Harmon claims that SB1657 is designed to protect children from so-called gun violence.  Yet, there are no provisions in the bill even slightly related to the safety of any child in the state.  The truth of the matter is, Harmon's intention is to thrust the right to keep and bear arms into a death spiral.

In summary, Sen. Don Harmon is an enemy of the 2nd Amendment; an enemy of the Constitution; and an enemy of the people.  Harmon is an urban elitist foot soldier ready and willing to do the bidding of billionaire gun grabber Michael Bloomberg.  As we know, Bloomberg's intent is to establish a gun-free America.  To achieve that end, Harmon is intent on stripping you of your human dignity, intent on denying your family's right to protect themselves, and making a mockery of the Founding Father's intentions when founding this great nation.

Now that we've told you the real story, it's up to you to work tirelessly to neutralize Harmon and his gun-grabbing pals.

Doesn't Springfield have the Hillary Hole too?  Steyr use too as well.

This what happens when you buy the grip zone. You get grip zone politics.

Fuck Springfield and RRA

Damnit Springfield!  

Negative, the people that move out of the state are good people, mostly.  Look at the state presidential voting results by county. 90 percent is red, but we get out voted by Chicago, east st Louis, and quad city region.  Those fuckers will never leave in large enough numbers to hurt u or help us, lol.  I'm a farmer so for me to move is damn near impossible.

Edit:  I posted this later, then read ur updates.  Ur applies are duly noted

Interesting that they qualify it by saying "under the original version of the bill..."

This is a de facto registration...the foid office will be notified of any purchase, and I'm sure they'll database serial and type, thereby knowing exactly what a person has.  This is a shitty, slimey bill designed to fuck gun owners.  Sa and rra going along with it makes no sense, but it seems the writing is on the wall and swan hunter has always been spot on.

Buy an M14 from Fulton Armory

Spoke with Les Baer yesterday about this. Les was pissed the fuck off. He said that if true it is sickening. Back when Les Baer was in Illinois, he along with a number if other manufacturers got together and attempted to fight the bullshit of Chicago politics in Springfield. Les worked with some folks that as he put it "didn't get along with" but still did it because an attack on the 2A is an attack on all.

I thanked Les for fighting the fight and then moving out of Illinois. He said he's still feeling the financial effects from the move.

Gonna talk to RRA today and see what they say. 

I think a lot of people are missing a big piece of this: the bill passed committee and the IL Senate because the manufacturers dropped their opposition.

Had SA and RRA stood firm, this bill would not have passed.

He appears to be displeased with the two companies.

Off my list, it ain't right. Just ain't right

They are supposed to have balls and be teabagging the govt with them

Why even mention it since that's not the version that passed? How are they victims in this?

ISRA life member here

so many firearms manufacturers to choose from RRA and Springfield will not be missed.
And I'm a fan of the XD line of pistols.

Looks like I will be buying M&P s and a overpriced Apex trigger kit to make it shootable.

I have rifles, pistols and lowers made by both companies. They are nice and I am in no way getting rid of them. I would buy more from the used market.


There just wont be any more purchased from these companies. They can dry up and blow away.


If I need another M1A it will be another label. Need another pistol it will be someone else. Same way I wont vote for a RINO again. That would be stupid. Vote with your wallet.

I won't be buying any of their products.

Made a deal with the devil to keep employees working, that is the best spin I can put on this right now.

I will take the time to read the thread and everything on an off day soon to see if I still have that opinion.

I will admit they were not really on my radar for new stuff anyway, right now I like bottom of the barrel ar stuff I assemble just cause that is still my mentality after having hitlery run for office.

Sad to hear about les baer.  Won't be this year but will spend some money on one of his 1911s next year.  I have a couple from his illinios days.  I was glad to hear he moved but I have been playing with glocks lately just cause 300 dollar police trade ins.

More to come...

http://www.gunssavelife.com/isra-sounds-alarm-illinois-gun-dealer-licensing/

jboch on April 30, 2017 at 8:10 am
Stay tuned for an editorial about this tonight.  Actually, a version of it goes up at The Truth About Guns in an hour or two.

In short, I don't believe Rock River had any contact with the IFMA lobbyist while this went down.  They trusted him to represent their interests.  Their trust does not seem well placed.

Springfield, on the other hand, is joined at the hip with Keller.  Springfield is tripling down on stupid despite the pressure.

I warned them Wednesday.  They ignored that and screwed us on Thursday.  I ran into Keller at NRA on Thursday late afternoon.  He snarked at me, "Nice article".  I replied, "Thanks.  You're going to love the next one."

So Springfield doubles down on stupid with that statement to TTAG.  And they've been working behind the scenes to kill the messenger, tripling down on stupid.

Digging even deeper, I've heard scuttlebutt they tried to get the NRA to pull my media credentials – and ditto for TTAG.  And on and on.

Meanwhile, Rock River is freaking out.  I feel sorry for them.

Right now though, Springfield's Dennis Reese isn't thinking clearly, and with each passing hour of his increasingly hostile behavior, this situation grows worse for his beleaguered company.  He made his bed.  Let him sleep in it.

It's really a shame because Springfield does make some good guns – like the Mod2 and the M14.  They can keep their HiPoint with a Hammer, otherwise known as the Judas.

Many years ago I sold my last commie rifle.

But now it appears that I actually do have some commie rifles again.

Strange how things work out.

Ah........so RRA might have been hoodwinked............thanks for info.

I hope that is the case and they issue a statement telling us that Springfield can "FUCK OFF".

May deaths icey touch find Sen. Don Harmon soon!

I think this says it all. If there was some mistake or misunderstanding, here was a completely informal opportunity to set the record straight.

Should I sell my Socom 16?

.

Meh. Only if you want to. Springfield already got their money.

Well, you're banned from this gun shop Springfield.

RRA, jury is still out on you.

So if I only try to commit a crime or an act of moral turpitude, but, don't actually succeed: I'm GTG in your eyes?

As of today I no longer own and RRAs products

had one last RRA lower and gave it to a buddy to help him start another AR build.

Regardless I like RRA but won't support them and their bad decisions.

Even If RRA didn't do anything wrong my buddy has a new lower.

Antis will get a triple win if both those companies fold. They will have effectively curtailed gun owner rights, destroyed two major manufacturers of firearms in their state and they will have destroyed a major source of funding to 2A lobby groups.

I have a feeling that this was done without sanction by the lobbists and who knows what was promised in return. If it was sanctioned maybe it was a move toward self preservation to fight another day or with knowledge the bill will die in the house and to garner favor on another more serious vote.

No, you are wrong. Someone will pick up the pieces or a new company will fill the void. Capitalism will capitalize.

You?

And all with the support and assistance of Quislings Springfield Arsenal and Rock River Arms (unless RRA issues a strong and  irrebuttable statement to the contrary).

Companies MUST pay a price for supporting draconian anti gun laws like this one.

It can hopefully be a deterrent for future assholes who try to do this sort of thing.

You were also a nevertrumper? You are silly.

This and yup, I am still holding out on RRA.......they might have been hoodwinked.........................we'll see........................

Nope, I knew nobody stood a snowball's chance in hell against Shrillary except Trump.

Cut off your nose to spite your face.

Nah...........not really.

Tagged

Here you go.

I dare you.  Pics or it didn't happen.