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Posted: 9/26/2015 10:30:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will they appeal?  |
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Posted: 9/26/2015 10:32:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Shit...while I cant say i'm surprised, I AM Disappointed....Now Will Sig Appeal, or say Fuck it and just drop it altogether, and hang an ugly-ass 16" Bbl on the thing??
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Posted: 9/26/2015 10:40:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
MEMORANDUM AND ORDER pdf ...snip...
IV. CONCLUSION
The ATF’s classification of Sig Sauer’s device as a firearm silencer was not “arbitrary, capricious, . . . or otherwise not in accordance with law.” 5 U.S.C. § 706(2)(A). Accordingly, I grant ATF’s motion for summary judgment (doc. no. 18), and I deny Sig Sauer’s motion for summary judgment (doc. no. 19). The clerk shall enter judgment accordingly and close the case. SO ORDERED. /s/Paul Barbadoro
Paul Barbadoro United States District Judge 
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Posted: 9/26/2015 10:42:23 PM EDT
[#4]
I really need to scrape some pennies together and buy a Sig.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/26/2015 10:45:25 PM EDT
[#5]
If they appeal, I will buy a Sig.
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Posted: 9/26/2015 10:46:44 PM EDT
[#6]
thetruthaboutguns: Judge: SIG SAUER’s MPX “Muzzle Brake” Is Actually a Silencer
Is the extensive muzzle brake permanently attached to the end of one version of the MPX’s barrel a muzzle brake or a “silencer”? The battle between SIG SAUER and the ATF has been raging for months. SIG SAUER’s position: it’s a muzzle brake. The part doesn’t reduce the noise of the gun in the slightest. But there’s a twist: SIG planned to make and sell a specially designed shroud that would transform the muzzle brake into a properly registered silencer. The ATF was not pleased. They dropped the ban hammer on the part. SIG SAUER sued. And now a judge has made his decision . . .
From the court decision: In the present case, the ATF acted rationally in concluding that Sig Sauer intended the baffle core to be used only as a silencer part because the agency pointed to substantial evidence in the record to support its determination. First, it is undisputed that the baffle core is an essential silencer component. Tr. at 55-56 (Doc. No. 31). It is, in fact, identical in design and dimension to the baffle core contained inside a removable Sig Sauer silencer. A.R. 824; see also Tr. at 55-56 (Sig Sauer’s counsel conceding that Sig Sauer has “basically taken the cap off [its] silencer . . . welded it into the gun, and [marketed the baffle core] as a muzzle brake”). Second, Sig Sauer proposed to attach the baffle core to a pistol caliber rifle, which the ATF determined did not need a muzzle brake to function effectively. A.R. 818. Third, the ATF examined other muzzle brakes on the market and concluded that the baffle core was unlike other conventional muzzle brakes because it included expansion chambers and was considerably larger than the muzzle brakes that are already available for sale. A.R. 818-21. Finally, it noted that muzzle brakes are designed to be no larger than two to three inches, which is considerably shorter than the baffle core, because a muzzle blast discharges after two to three inches, making longer muzzle brakes impractical.11 A.R. 822-23. All of these observations require expertise that is well within the ATF’s grasp. Thus, its conclusions are entitled to substantial deference from a reviewing court. Marsh v. Or. Natural Res. Council, 490 U.S. 360, 378 (1989). In short, since the judge bought the argument that muzzle brakes are “designed to be no larger than two to three inches” and the muzzle brake forms an “essential silencer component.” He was happy classifying the muzzle brake as a silencer. This is more than a little worrying. |
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Posted: 9/26/2015 10:48:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Nice try Sig…….
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Posted: 9/26/2015 10:52:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Sig Sauer also argues that the ATF arbitrarily failed to credit its test data, which shows that the baffle core will actually function as a muzzle brake. This argument misses the mark because the ATF is not obligated to conclude that a 16 silencer part is intended to serve every function to which it could conceivably be put. As the ATF noted, the baffle core is a heavy part that probably could function as a doorstop, but that does not mean that it is intended to serve that purpose. A.R. 814. 12 Wow. Just wow. |
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Posted: 9/26/2015 10:53:59 PM EDT
[#9]
With this ruling, I forsee threaded barrels being classified as suppressors.
 . Heck, they might as well just go ahead and classify any gun as a class 3.
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Posted: 9/26/2015 10:57:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With this ruling, I forsee threaded barrels being classified as suppressors. . Heck, they might as well just go ahead and classify any gun as a class 3.No kidding. What a fucking terrible ruling. We're going to completely ignore intent and let the ATF do whatever the fuck it wants. |
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Posted: 9/26/2015 11:10:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Fuck that judge and fuck the ATF; if the "brake" does not silence the firearm then it's not a fucking silencer.
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Posted: 9/26/2015 11:56:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Well of course the Judge (a government agent) found that a private company could not sue the government and win that's just not done. what did I It would be a dangerous precedent that the .gov could be held civially accountable for any damn thing.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:01:39 AM EDT
[#13]
Bastards
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:30:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: thetruthaboutguns: Judge: SIG SAUER’s MPX "Muzzle Brake” Is Actually a Silencer the ATF determined did not need a muzzle brake to function effectively was unlike other conventional muzzle brakes
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:45:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding. What a fucking terrible ruling. We're going to completely ignore intent and let the ATF do whatever the fuck it wants. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With this ruling, I forsee threaded barrels being classified as suppressors. . Heck, they might as well just go ahead and classify any gun as a class 3.No kidding. What a fucking terrible ruling. We're going to completely ignore intent and let the ATF do whatever the fuck it wants. Has to be acknowledged. They can do whatever they please until something stops them. Even the "letter of the law" is not a protection from something not bound by a law. Or sanity, or financial expenditure. I could say more, but I would wind up sounding downright seditious once I started commenting on how ineffective the fourth, second and tenth amendments are in a practical sense. Anyone here know what the ninth amendment says?
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:47:27 AM EDT
[#16]
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I showed my wife a picture of said MPX with said "Muzzle Break" and asked her what does that look like to you. Her response was and I quote "Part of a suppressor"  
Sort of knew Sig was splitting hairs and getting into the Gray Area with this. Unfortunately when you get into the gray area with the feds you wind up with you pee pee getting slapped HARD!!!! |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:47:55 AM EDT
[#17]
Sofa
King Wee Todd Did |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:55:39 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they appeal, I will buy a Sig. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:57:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I showed my wife a picture of said MPX with said "Muzzle Break" and asked her what does that look like to you. Her response was and I quote "Part of a suppressor" Sort of knew Sig was splitting hairs and getting into the Gray Area with this. Unfortunately when you get into the gray area with the feds you wind up with you pee pee getting slapped HARD!!!! Frikkin hilarious bro. All the way through the banning of everything. Real knee-slapper this is. Har har har.  FBATFE |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:03:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Why legislate when you can regulate, that way we can just make shit mean what we want it to mean
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:03:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I showed my wife a picture of said MPX with said "Muzzle Break" and asked her what does that look like to you. Her response was and I quote "Part of a suppressor" Sort of knew Sig was splitting hairs and getting into the Gray Area with this. Unfortunately when you get into the gray area with the feds you wind up with you pee pee getting slapped HARD!!!! Which bar are you and your buddies celebrating at? |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:22:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Frikkin hilarious bro. All the way through the banning of everything. Real knee-slapper this is. Har har har. FBATFE Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I showed my wife a picture of said MPX with said "Muzzle Break" and asked her what does that look like to you. Her response was and I quote "Part of a suppressor" Sort of knew Sig was splitting hairs and getting into the Gray Area with this. Unfortunately when you get into the gray area with the feds you wind up with you pee pee getting slapped HARD!!!! Frikkin hilarious bro. All the way through the banning of everything. Real knee-slapper this is. Har har har. FBATFE |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:24:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I showed my wife a picture of said MPX with said "Muzzle Break" and asked her what does that look like to you. Her response was and I quote "Part of a suppressor"
Sort of knew Sig was splitting hairs and getting into the Gray Area with this. Unfortunately when you get into the gray area with the feds you wind up with you pee pee getting slapped HARD!!!! Yeah Sig tweaked the tigers tail with that "muzzle brake". I don't fault them for trying but I don't understand what their plan was. They risked creating a dangerous precedent for only a very slim chance of success. They might have been more successful if they had used a shorter brake and/or not copied the shape directly from a suppressor they already sell and made it more conventional. As it was, even a layperson can look at a picture of silencer baffles and make the connection that it wasn't just a "muzzle brake" . Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:30:38 AM EDT
[#24]
Duh. Did anyone really not see this coming? It's obviously an internal suppressor core and even has a threaded end. If you want to play mental gymnastics like the liberals do, go right ahead.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:39:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Duh. Did anyone really not see this coming? It's obviously an internal suppressor core and even has a threaded end. If you want to play mental gymnastics like the liberals do, go right ahead. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:41:52 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mental gymnastics is thinking that this result is somehow okay. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Duh. Did anyone really not see this coming? It's obviously an internal suppressor core and even has a threaded end. If you want to play mental gymnastics like the liberals do, go right ahead. No, that's reality as you see it before your eyes. What was done has become 'history' and is passed. Ares Armor makes a 'breath' brake which is a 'muzzle device' or whatever you want to call it, and it is not banned by the ATF. Sig Sauer chose to thread the end of this one with the ability to add a sleeve later on. There are no 'mental gymnastics' involved to realize that it's a suppressor part. Trying to argue otherwise, IS. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:56:04 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, that's reality as you see it before your eyes. What was done has become 'history' and is passed. Ares Armor makes a 'breath' brake which is a 'muzzle device' or whatever you want to call it, and it is not banned by the ATF. Sig Sauer chose to thread the end of this one with the ability to add a sleeve later on. There are no 'mental gymnastics' involved to realize that it's a suppressor part. Trying to argue otherwise, IS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Duh. Did anyone really not see this coming? It's obviously an internal suppressor core and even has a threaded end. If you want to play mental gymnastics like the liberals do, go right ahead. No, that's reality as you see it before your eyes. What was done has become 'history' and is passed. Ares Armor makes a 'breath' brake which is a 'muzzle device' or whatever you want to call it, and it is not banned by the ATF. Sig Sauer chose to thread the end of this one with the ability to add a sleeve later on. There are no 'mental gymnastics' involved to realize that it's a suppressor part. Trying to argue otherwise, IS. An oil filter is a suppressor too. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 2:18:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Since my slanted muzzle brake can easily be stabbed in to a potato, and would therefore reduce the sound of a fired shot, should it be banned? What about potatoes? We all know the potatoes are a gray area with the atf, but as long as no one sends a letter, hopefully the atf will allow them to remain non-NFA items.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 2:46:35 AM EDT
[#29]
This ruling is ridiculous. If it doesn't reduce sound it is NOT a suppressor. It doesn't matter if it has threads on the end, or the shape or size of the design.
If the same type of legislation the ATF creates were to be applied to the auto industry no cars with engines powerful enough to break a speed limit would be allowed to be produced because that would construe an intent to speed. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 8:51:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, that's reality as you see it before your eyes. What was done has become 'history' and is passed. Ares Armor makes a 'breath' brake which is a 'muzzle device' or whatever you want to call it, and it is not banned by the ATF. Sig Sauer chose to thread the end of this one with the ability to add a sleeve later on. There are no 'mental gymnastics' involved to realize that it's a suppressor part. Trying to argue otherwise, IS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Duh. Did anyone really not see this coming? It's obviously an internal suppressor core and even has a threaded end. If you want to play mental gymnastics like the liberals do, go right ahead. No, that's reality as you see it before your eyes. What was done has become 'history' and is passed. Ares Armor makes a 'breath' brake which is a 'muzzle device' or whatever you want to call it, and it is not banned by the ATF. Sig Sauer chose to thread the end of this one with the ability to add a sleeve later on. There are no 'mental gymnastics' involved to realize that it's a suppressor part. Trying to argue otherwise, IS. What legal difference does threads make? Did you miss the part where they arbitrarily made up how long a muzzle brake is allowed to be with no basis whatsoever in law? |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 9:35:01 AM EDT
[#31]
While I agree it's bullshit, how is this really any different than a 3-hole lower without a full-auto FCG being considered a machinegun?
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Posted: 9/27/2015 9:56:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While I agree it's bullshit, how is this really any different than a 3-hole lower without a full-auto FCG being considered a machinegun? It's not. There is the problem, they make the rules up as they go along. Also the very first time that the ATF brought the "by changing parts we were able to make it fire FA" the judge should have slapped they ATF right on the peepee. Feel free to add the appropriate F(insert initials) |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:03:01 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This ruling is ridiculous. If it doesn't reduce sound it is NOT a suppressor. It doesn't matter if it has threads on the end, or the shape or size of the design. If the same type of legislation the ATF creates were to be applied to the auto industry no cars with engines powerful enough to break a speed limit would be allowed to be produced because that would construe an intent to speed. +1 |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:09:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I showed my wife a picture of said MPX with said "Muzzle Break" and asked her what does that look like to you. Her response was and I quote "Part of a suppressor"
Sort of knew Sig was splitting hairs and getting into the Gray Area with this. Unfortunately when you get into the gray area with the feds you wind up with you pee pee getting slapped HARD!!!! Hello Mr. ATF agent man. Fuck the BATFE. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:36:30 AM EDT
[#35]
At this point, SIG has lost. I wish they would just start selling it as an integrally suppressed upper so we can buy it.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:43:12 AM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:44:46 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An oil filter is a suppressor too.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Duh. Did anyone really not see this coming? It's obviously an internal suppressor core and even has a threaded end. If you want to play mental gymnastics like the liberals do, go right ahead. No, that's reality as you see it before your eyes. What was done has become 'history' and is passed. Ares Armor makes a 'breath' brake which is a 'muzzle device' or whatever you want to call it, and it is not banned by the ATF. Sig Sauer chose to thread the end of this one with the ability to add a sleeve later on. There are no 'mental gymnastics' involved to realize that it's a suppressor part. Trying to argue otherwise, IS. An oil filter is a suppressor too.
Agree. Soda/pop bottle is a 22 suppressor too. BAN SODA!!!!!!!! For da chuldrin
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:05:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At this point, SIG has lost. Do you guys not understand that there's an appeals process and that no matter how it shook out in this initial hearing that either way it would have gone to appeals? The ATF would have appealed had SIG won and SIG better make sure they appeal. Wes |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:39:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With this ruling, I forsee threaded barrels being classified as suppressors. . Heck, they might as well just go ahead and classify any gun as a class 3.Or oil and fuel filters as well. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:43:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or oil and fuel filters as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With this ruling, I forsee threaded barrels being classified as suppressors. . Heck, they might as well just go ahead and classify any gun as a class 3.Or oil and fuel filters as well. Don't forget any muzzle break that is a suppressor mount. That there is a blast baffle.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:46:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Fucking ATF gets special treatment in court, IMHO.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:47:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't forget any muzzle break that is a suppressor mount. That there is a blast baffle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With this ruling, I forsee threaded barrels being classified as suppressors. . Heck, they might as well just go ahead and classify any gun as a class 3.Or oil and fuel filters as well. Don't forget any muzzle break that is a suppressor mount. That there is a blast baffle. Yep, would not suprise me to see that happen. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:51:28 PM EDT
[#43]
No, this doesn't change how oil filters, pop cans, etc are "classified" by the ATF. This decision is based on the language of the law:
(24) The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. The bold and underlined are why SIG lost. There was clearly intent for the muzzle brake to be "intended for use in assembling...a firearm silencer" and they failed to convince the judge that it was intended for use as a muzzle brake OR a baffle stack rather than just solely as a baffle stack. The blue is the reason "solvent traps" aren't suffering the same assault. The people selling them are not also selling a completed silencer part on a Form 4 with their solvent traps. They're selling solvent traps and solvent traps only, and if people turn their solvent traps into silencers on Form 1s, that's outside their control, and proving their intent to sell parts that are intended solely as silencer parts is pretty tough. But because evidence exists that SIG intended to sell serialized tubes on F4s, that's evidence of their intent for the brake to be a baffle stack. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:10:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, this doesn't change how oil filters, pop cans, etc are "classified" by the ATF. This decision is based on the language of the law: The bold and underlined are why SIG lost. There was clearly intent for the muzzle brake to be "intended for use in assembling...a firearm silencer" and they failed to convince the judge that it was intended for use as a muzzle brake OR a baffle stack rather than just solely as a baffle stack. The blue is the reason "solvent traps" aren't suffering the same assault. The people selling them are not also selling a completed silencer part on a Form 4 with their solvent traps. They're selling solvent traps and solvent traps only, and if people turn their solvent traps into silencers on Form 1s, that's outside their control, and proving their intent to sell parts that are intended solely as silencer parts is pretty tough. But because evidence exists that SIG intended to sell serialized tubes on F4s, that's evidence of their intent for the brake to be a baffle stack. Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, this doesn't change how oil filters, pop cans, etc are "classified" by the ATF. This decision is based on the language of the law: (24) The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. The bold and underlined are why SIG lost. There was clearly intent for the muzzle brake to be "intended for use in assembling...a firearm silencer" and they failed to convince the judge that it was intended for use as a muzzle brake OR a baffle stack rather than just solely as a baffle stack. The blue is the reason "solvent traps" aren't suffering the same assault. The people selling them are not also selling a completed silencer part on a Form 4 with their solvent traps. They're selling solvent traps and solvent traps only, and if people turn their solvent traps into silencers on Form 1s, that's outside their control, and proving their intent to sell parts that are intended solely as silencer parts is pretty tough. But because evidence exists that SIG intended to sell serialized tubes on F4s, that's evidence of their intent for the brake to be a baffle stack. Like I said above. Threaded/QD muzzle breaks are going to get treated the same way soon. They are blast baffles after all.
Sure hoping Sig appeals and wins because this sets a bad precident. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 4:12:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fucking ATF gets special treatment in court, IMHO. Nothing "IMHO" about it. It's plainly obvious that there is special treatment. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 4:45:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not. There is the problem, they make the rules up as they go along. Also the very first time that the ATF brought the "by changing parts we were able to make it fire FA" the judge should have slapped they ATF right on the peepee. Feel free to add the appropriate F(insert initials) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
While I agree it's bullshit, how is this really any different than a 3-hole lower without a full-auto FCG being considered a machinegun? It's not. There is the problem, they make the rules up as they go along. Also the very first time that the ATF brought the "by changing parts we were able to make it fire FA" the judge should have slapped they ATF right on the peepee. Feel free to add the appropriate F(insert initials) Yup I figured one of the benefits of this case was pointing out how stupid their rules were. I like many think the whole NFA should go away but know that is not going to happen anytime soon. I think it should be black and white. Is it a silener or not? In this case it is not. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 5:42:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Not that SCOTUS would pick this up but this is the next step correct?
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Posted: 9/27/2015 6:08:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup I figured one of the benefits of this case was pointing out how stupid their rules were. I like many think the whole NFA should go away but know that is not going to happen anytime soon. I think it should be black and white. Is it a silener or not? In this case it is not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
While I agree it's bullshit, how is this really any different than a 3-hole lower without a full-auto FCG being considered a machinegun? It's not. There is the problem, they make the rules up as they go along. Also the very first time that the ATF brought the "by changing parts we were able to make it fire FA" the judge should have slapped they ATF right on the peepee. Feel free to add the appropriate F(insert initials) Yup I figured one of the benefits of this case was pointing out how stupid their rules were. I like many think the whole NFA should go away but know that is not going to happen anytime soon. I think it should be black and white. Is it a silener or not? In this case it is not. But this is a matter of the NFA - namely 18 U.S. Code § 921(a). |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 6:15:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But this is a matter of the NFA - namely 18 U.S. Code § 921(a). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
While I agree it's bullshit, how is this really any different than a 3-hole lower without a full-auto FCG being considered a machinegun? It's not. There is the problem, they make the rules up as they go along. Also the very first time that the ATF brought the "by changing parts we were able to make it fire FA" the judge should have slapped they ATF right on the peepee. Feel free to add the appropriate F(insert initials) Yup I figured one of the benefits of this case was pointing out how stupid their rules were. I like many think the whole NFA should go away but know that is not going to happen anytime soon. I think it should be black and white. Is it a silener or not? In this case it is not. But this is a matter of the NFA - namely 18 U.S. Code § 921(a). This... Sig went too far and poked the bear. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 6:26:39 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This... Sig went too far and poked the bear. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: While I agree it's bullshit, how is this really any different than a 3-hole lower without a full-auto FCG being considered a machinegun? It's not. There is the problem, they make the rules up as they go along. Also the very first time that the ATF brought the "by changing parts we were able to make it fire FA" the judge should have slapped they ATF right on the peepee. Feel free to add the appropriate F(insert initials) Yup I figured one of the benefits of this case was pointing out how stupid their rules were. I like many think the whole NFA should go away but know that is not going to happen anytime soon. I think it should be black and white. Is it a silener or not? In this case it is not. But this is a matter of the NFA - namely 18 U.S. Code § 921(a). This... Sig went too far and poked the bear.  |
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