NRA's Marion Hammer (Past NRA President) and the NRA-ILA's Betrayal of Florida - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - NRA's Marion Hammer (Past NRA President) and the NRA-ILA's Betrayal of Florida (Page 3 of 4)

Posted: 5/11/2017 10:43:03 AM EDT

[#1]

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Quoted:

NRA Endorsement and Rating system needs to be revamped

Over and over again in Florida, NRA Endorsed and ‘A’ rated candidates have backtracked and killed pro-gun legislation. The NRA-PVF needs a complete overhaul.

Just this week we had House Speaker Richard Corcoran (R) blocked and killed pro-gun legislation. (Florida Republicans killed another Pro-Gun bill in the last week of the Legislative Session.)

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Corcoran.jpg
http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/corcoran-rating.jpg

Worse though is this year’s shining star of betrayal. Senator Anitere Flores (R).

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Flores-NRA-rating.jpg

Who the NRA endorsed back in 2012 and in 2016 still allowed her to keep her ‘A’ rating even after she voted ‘yes’ for a Special Legislative Session to be called for Gun Control back on June 28, 2016. Then on July 6, 2016 she sent Florida’s NRA representative, Marion Hammer a letter flat out stating that she defends the 2nd Amendment and that Government has no right to infringe upon it.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Flores-NRA-Letter.jpg

Her history of comments and statements after the Pulse Nightclub Terror Attack in Orlando in which she sided with gun grabbers was known. Yet they still gave her the ‘A’ rating and believed her letter.

Senate President Joe Negron (R) could have had SB-140 (2017’s Pro-Gun Bill) bypass the Senate Judiciary Committee and go directly to a floor vote but instead he allowed it to go through the committees that Senator Anitere Flores had a chair in. Worse though is he put Senator Flores in the number two slot in the Senate.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/negron.jpg
http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Negron-NRA-Rating.jpg

In 2016, it was Representative Charles McBurney (R) that betrayed gun owners and NRA Members. He refused to hear “Burden of Proof”, SB-344 thus killing the bill which overwhelmingly passed the Senate and was ready to enter a largely Republican House.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Charles-McBurney-NRA-Rating.jpg

When he decided to run for a Judgeship, that is when the NRA stepped up to the plate and attacked him. But from 2008 to early 2016, the NRA supported him.

Let’s not forget Senator Miguel Diaz de la Portilla and his actions in both 2015 and 2016. He chaired the Senate Judiciary Committee and blocked every pro-gun bill that came across his desk.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Portilla-NRA-Rating.jpg

In 2011, it was Senator Ellyn Bogdanoff (R). But that year was even worse than the ones that came after it. Florida had an Open Carry Bill sailing through the Legislature. Marion Hammer at first openly supported the bill. Then NRA ‘A’ Rated Senator Bogdanoff gutted open carry from the bill and Marion Hammer defended her actions and attacked Open Carry supporters.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Ellyn-Setnor-Bogdanoff-NRA-Rating.jpg

Here is Marion Hammer of the NRA openly defending that year’s bill as one primarily for Open Carry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzVJn3JkXOQ

Here is what she said in the video:

Marion Hammer: Open carry was banned 24 years ago and the time has come to fix it.”
Marion Hammer: “This is Florida. It gets really hot here in the summer. Lot of time folks might go into a restaurant or into you know a meeting and they want to take off their jacket. They can’t take a jacket off and expose the firearm. It’s just silly.”

That interview was before Sen. Bogdanoff gutted the bill.

After Senator Bogdanoff gutted the bill, Marion Hammer defender her and attacked NRA members and Florida Gun Owners.

Response To Rude Open Carry Blogger
Dear Sir: First of all you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Neither NRA nor USF sold out anybody — we are protecting the rights of all law-abiding gun owners.Second you are as rude and offensive as you are wrong. It is you, and other open carry supporters like you, who are also rude and offensive, who are selling out all law-abiding gun owners.There are currently over 800,000 CW License holders and 8 million law-abiding gun owners in Florida. These bills are about their rights — not the small number of open carry supporters who are trying to hijack and control the bills. A few hairs on the tip of the tail are trying to wag the dog.SB-234 and HB-517 were filed on behalf of NRA and USF and they were NEVER about “open carry.” Neither OpenCarry.org or FloridaCarry.org had anything at all to do with the purpose, the drafting, or the filing of those bills.

These bills also contain other important protections for gun owners including clarification of where CW License holders may have firearms in their vehicles when they park and language to repeal the contiguous state law and thus allow Floridians to purchase rifles and shotguns in other states.Go back to the very beginning when we started working to pass the bill and read the first USF and NRA ALERT on SB-234 (ALERT ROUND 4 on February 18, 2011)The sections of those bills that deal with how you can carry a firearm — that added “openly” — were ALWAYS about protecting concealed weapons license holders from being arrested and charged with a crime for violating the “open carry” law, s. 790.053 (click here: s.790.053 ) or the improper exhibition law, s. 790.10 (click here s.790.10 ) when carrying a concealed firearm and the firearm accidentally or inadvertently or unintentionally becomes exposed.

Now why did Senator Bogdanoff suddenly attempt to kill a pro-gun bill via amendment? Because her daughter is a known criminal.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/SenatorsDaughter.jpg

Yup, after Senator Bogdanoff gutted Open Carry, her daughter was arrested for a number of crimes. And of course the NRA still supported her for her actions after 2011.

But the biggest crime of Senator Bogdanoff’s and the NRA’s action in 2011 is that in 2012. Dale Lee Norman was arrested for exercising his 2nd Amendment Rights in Fort Pierce, Florida. Mr. Norman was a legally permitted to carry a concealed weapon and was walking down the sidewalk when he had a wardrobe malfunction. His shirt rode up and exposed his pistol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qKeJ6jd2Ak

Mr. Norman was forced to the ground at gun point and arrested by three officers.

So what does that have to do with Senator Bogdanoff? The amendment she used to gut open carry from the 2011 bill had a worthless replacement that stated that “Brief and Accidental Exposure” is legal. Yet we see here that in 2012. Her amendment did nothing to protect the law abiding citizenry from abuse.

The NRA backed her in 2012 for her election and endorsed her anyways.

As a NRA member, it makes me angry and mad. Time and time again I have seen politicians and candidates backtrack and betray NRA members and Gun Owners.

NO MORE!

The NRA needs to revamp the way it deals with politicians. If they want NRA support then they need to tow the line. If not then the NRA needs to go after them with both barrels. Furthermore the entire system put in place to endorse candidates needs to be revamped. Especially after the failure that is Senator Anitere Flores.

Lou4NRA.org

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Damn...

Posted: 5/11/2017 10:46:11 AM EDT

[#2]

How do the defenders defend the better half of the last decade?

I see alot of focus on this issue, but it's not hte first time.

We need a FCDL, single issue, on message, united, informed and active.

Posted: 5/11/2017 10:49:27 AM EDT

[#3]

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There is only so much you can do. We have "republican" rep who is "pro 2nd" holding Constitutional Carry hostage in committee.
Two years in a row now.

I've had communications with the person and even offered to meet face to face.

It makes you wonder if they are being bribed.

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They play both sides. Absolutely, they are being brided.
Initially, when they first started out, it was the principle. Then, money does the talking, they are now willing to compromise to get a piece of the pie. Their principle is still there for the right price.

Posted: 5/11/2017 10:59:13 AM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Damn...

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Quoted:

Quoted:

NRA Endorsement and Rating system needs to be revamped

Over and over again in Florida, NRA Endorsed and ‘A’ rated candidates have backtracked and killed pro-gun legislation. The NRA-PVF needs a complete overhaul.

Just this week we had House Speaker Richard Corcoran (R) blocked and killed pro-gun legislation. (Florida Republicans killed another Pro-Gun bill in the last week of the Legislative Session.)

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Corcoran.jpg
http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/corcoran-rating.jpg

Worse though is this year’s shining star of betrayal. Senator Anitere Flores (R).

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Flores-NRA-rating.jpg

Who the NRA endorsed back in 2012 and in 2016 still allowed her to keep her ‘A’ rating even after she voted ‘yes’ for a Special Legislative Session to be called for Gun Control back on June 28, 2016. Then on July 6, 2016 she sent Florida’s NRA representative, Marion Hammer a letter flat out stating that she defends the 2nd Amendment and that Government has no right to infringe upon it.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Flores-NRA-Letter.jpg

Her history of comments and statements after the Pulse Nightclub Terror Attack in Orlando in which she sided with gun grabbers was known. Yet they still gave her the ‘A’ rating and believed her letter.

Senate President Joe Negron (R) could have had SB-140 (2017’s Pro-Gun Bill) bypass the Senate Judiciary Committee and go directly to a floor vote but instead he allowed it to go through the committees that Senator Anitere Flores had a chair in. Worse though is he put Senator Flores in the number two slot in the Senate.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/negron.jpg
http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Negron-NRA-Rating.jpg

In 2016, it was Representative Charles McBurney (R) that betrayed gun owners and NRA Members. He refused to hear “Burden of Proof”, SB-344 thus killing the bill which overwhelmingly passed the Senate and was ready to enter a largely Republican House.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Charles-McBurney-NRA-Rating.jpg

When he decided to run for a Judgeship, that is when the NRA stepped up to the plate and attacked him. But from 2008 to early 2016, the NRA supported him.

Let’s not forget Senator Miguel Diaz de la Portilla and his actions in both 2015 and 2016. He chaired the Senate Judiciary Committee and blocked every pro-gun bill that came across his desk.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Portilla-NRA-Rating.jpg

In 2011, it was Senator Ellyn Bogdanoff (R). But that year was even worse than the ones that came after it. Florida had an Open Carry Bill sailing through the Legislature. Marion Hammer at first openly supported the bill. Then NRA ‘A’ Rated Senator Bogdanoff gutted open carry from the bill and Marion Hammer defended her actions and attacked Open Carry supporters.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Ellyn-Setnor-Bogdanoff-NRA-Rating.jpg

Here is Marion Hammer of the NRA openly defending that year’s bill as one primarily for Open Carry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzVJn3JkXOQ

Here is what she said in the video:

Marion Hammer: Open carry was banned 24 years ago and the time has come to fix it.”
Marion Hammer: “This is Florida. It gets really hot here in the summer. Lot of time folks might go into a restaurant or into you know a meeting and they want to take off their jacket. They can’t take a jacket off and expose the firearm. It’s just silly.”

That interview was before Sen. Bogdanoff gutted the bill.

After Senator Bogdanoff gutted the bill, Marion Hammer defender her and attacked NRA members and Florida Gun Owners.

Response To Rude Open Carry Blogger
Dear Sir: First of all you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Neither NRA nor USF sold out anybody — we are protecting the rights of all law-abiding gun owners.Second you are as rude and offensive as you are wrong. It is you, and other open carry supporters like you, who are also rude and offensive, who are selling out all law-abiding gun owners.There are currently over 800,000 CW License holders and 8 million law-abiding gun owners in Florida. These bills are about their rights — not the small number of open carry supporters who are trying to hijack and control the bills. A few hairs on the tip of the tail are trying to wag the dog.SB-234 and HB-517 were filed on behalf of NRA and USF and they were NEVER about “open carry.” Neither OpenCarry.org or FloridaCarry.org had anything at all to do with the purpose, the drafting, or the filing of those bills.

These bills also contain other important protections for gun owners including clarification of where CW License holders may have firearms in their vehicles when they park and language to repeal the contiguous state law and thus allow Floridians to purchase rifles and shotguns in other states.Go back to the very beginning when we started working to pass the bill and read the first USF and NRA ALERT on SB-234 (ALERT ROUND 4 on February 18, 2011)The sections of those bills that deal with how you can carry a firearm — that added “openly” — were ALWAYS about protecting concealed weapons license holders from being arrested and charged with a crime for violating the “open carry” law, s. 790.053 (click here: s.790.053 ) or the improper exhibition law, s. 790.10 (click here s.790.10 ) when carrying a concealed firearm and the firearm accidentally or inadvertently or unintentionally becomes exposed.

Now why did Senator Bogdanoff suddenly attempt to kill a pro-gun bill via amendment? Because her daughter is a known criminal.

http://www.lou4nra.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/SenatorsDaughter.jpg

Yup, after Senator Bogdanoff gutted Open Carry, her daughter was arrested for a number of crimes. And of course the NRA still supported her for her actions after 2011.

But the biggest crime of Senator Bogdanoff’s and the NRA’s action in 2011 is that in 2012. Dale Lee Norman was arrested for exercising his 2nd Amendment Rights in Fort Pierce, Florida. Mr. Norman was a legally permitted to carry a concealed weapon and was walking down the sidewalk when he had a wardrobe malfunction. His shirt rode up and exposed his pistol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qKeJ6jd2Ak

Mr. Norman was forced to the ground at gun point and arrested by three officers.

So what does that have to do with Senator Bogdanoff? The amendment she used to gut open carry from the 2011 bill had a worthless replacement that stated that “Brief and Accidental Exposure” is legal. Yet we see here that in 2012. Her amendment did nothing to protect the law abiding citizenry from abuse.

The NRA backed her in 2012 for her election and endorsed her anyways.

As a NRA member, it makes me angry and mad. Time and time again I have seen politicians and candidates backtrack and betray NRA members and Gun Owners.

NO MORE!

The NRA needs to revamp the way it deals with politicians. If they want NRA support then they need to tow the line. If not then the NRA needs to go after them with both barrels. Furthermore the entire system put in place to endorse candidates needs to be revamped. Especially after the failure that is Senator Anitere Flores.

Lou4NRA.org

Damn...

But I'm in the wrong here for bringing up what has happened in FL.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:11:18 AM EDT

[#5]

I won't be renewing my membership unless somebody makes a really solid case why I should. So far I haven't seen one.

If this angers and saddens you, just know I'm angered and saddened as well.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:12:53 AM EDT

[#6]

No you are absolutely right. Keep on keeping on. Anyone who tells you it's ok to accept failure after failure is a fool.

What has happened in Florida these last few years is a complete failure and anyone from the NRA that is in charge should be fired.

Think about it. We were one of the first states with CC. Now most states have soared past our Gun rights in comparison.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:13:27 AM EDT

[#7]

Two life members here. We voted for the ARFCOM 3, and nobody else.

We have to figure out a way to take this message wide. We need funding, and organization.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:17:38 AM EDT

[#8]

Fuck, guys...
Stop all the bickering and work together here. I'm sure it is just the misunderstandings and things said that can be too harshly on internet. Ultimately, we want the same thing and on the same side, here.
You guys know who is benefit from our bickering, right?!?!?!

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:19:35 AM EDT

[#9]

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I won't be renewing my membership unless somebody makes a really solid case why I should. So far I haven't seen one.

If this angers and saddens you, just know I'm angered and saddened as well.

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If you don't renew, you can't vote and have a say. Sure, they're fighting hard to silence members. But the grassroots movement is strengthening.

We need everyone on board.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:28:57 AM EDT

[#10]

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It is a problem all the hard core no compromise folks have. Their attitude is "you don't support 100% of my views, only 99% so FUCK YOU". Then they wonder why people just ignore them.

Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong.

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For one, Miami_JBT is running for the NRA Board.

We just watched Nolo and SuperMoose attempt the same, unsuccessfully.

Miami_JBT has a tough road, but it's one that must be paved by the support of NRA voting membership.

The best route currently is to grow a significant grassroots alternative to NRA "representation". Florida is simply not represented by the NRA. It's either more of the same failures, or people get behind organizations who will actually "Stand and Fight" as the NRA motto goes.

And by the way, the NRA has a history in Florida of intentionally marginalizing grassroots organizations. Let that sink in and ask yourself "Why would they do that?" Why not join forces to assure wins? Thats something only the NRA can speak to. And quite frankly, there's no good answer what so ever.

It is too bad that he has a shitty condescending attitude and seems to speak from a position of ignorance and anger. He will not be getting my support.

It is a problem all the hard core no compromise folks have. Their attitude is "you don't support 100% of my views, only 99% so FUCK YOU". Then they wonder why people just ignore them.

Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong.

How about you worry about your state and I'll worry about mine.

Seeing as how you are so fucking dense and cant be bothered to read any of the info posted on Pg 1, your opinion means exactly jack shit. Neither MJBT, M4, America First, myself and others that are posting in this thread and the several others in the last few months, are "My way or the Highway" types. We are pushing for some very basic reforms.

Items such as: Not being drawn on if a CCW is accidentally exposed or printed, Campus carry, use of silencers in hunting, further clarification of legal defense in a "Stand your ground" scenario.

The "anger" you see on display is based on R's, running a 2A campaign to get elected and then doing just enough to get reelected. FL has an R Gov, and both chambers, the NRA is heavily involved. And yet bills are killed, consistently. Afterwards, we are repeatedly told various excuses.

It's the same scenario with R's in DC, and we're tired of it.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:34:12 AM EDT

[#11]

I don't have anything helpful to add but I will say I am worried for you FL guys.

If you can't get the GOP people to pass pro gun legislation, how hard with they stand up against dem attempts to jamb things like assault weapon bans, restriction in mag capacity or CCW issuance.
With all the northeasterners flocking to your state, I worry that you are headed down the same road that got California, and is taking hold in places like the pacific northwest and Colorado.

Act now before it is too late. Because once it is lost, it never seems to come back. I say this as a 25+ year resident of California.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:40:31 AM EDT

[#12]

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Fuck, guys...
Stop all the bickering and work together here. I'm sure it is just the misunderstandings and things said that can be too harshly on internet. Ultimately, we want the same thing and on the same side, here.
You guys know who is benefit from our bickering, right?!?!?!

View Quote

If the NRA is but of little account on the state level then why is it wrong to call them out on it? Were it not for the VCDL we would still be under the one gun a month law.....not that the NRA did not send out a "alert" taking the lion's share of the credit when they did next to nothing as far as working for it.

It seems to me that "working together" is a very one-sided affair when dealing with the NRA on the state grass-roots .org level. "Our way or the highway" and "all your ideas and accomplishments belong to us" comes to mind, even if the grass-root .org is in no way affiliated with the NRA.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:42:18 AM EDT

[#13]

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I don't have anything helpful to add but I will say I am worried for you FL guys.

If you can't get the GOP people to pass pro gun legislation, how hard with they stand up against dem attempts to jamb things like assault weapon bans, restriction in mag capacity or CCW issuance.
With all the northeasterners flocking to your state, I worry that you are headed down the same road that got California, and is taking hold in places like the pacific northwest and Colorado.

Act now before it is too late. Because once it is lost, it never seems to come back. I say this as a 25+ year resident of California.

View Quote

I worry about it too. FL is a battleground state and I see the Governor's seat in 2018 going Democrat. Rick Scott won by less than 1%. The biggest problem isn't the Democrats though. It is actually Republicans. Typical North Eastern types like Pataki, Bush, and Christie.

So far AWBs haven't gotten anywhere and even with Pulse Nightclub Terror Attack and the Fort Lauderdale Airport Terror Attack. They didn't go anywhere. We have a strong gun culture but if it doesn't expand. We'll stay in the quagmire that is the Status Quo.

As for long term demographics change. Who knows.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:42:27 AM EDT

[#14]

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I don't have anything helpful to add but I will say I am worried for you FL guys.

If you can't get the GOP people to pass pro gun legislation, how hard with they stand up against dem attempts to jamb things like assault weapon bans, restriction in mag capacity or CCW issuance.
With all the northeasterners flocking to your state, I worry that you are headed down the same road that got California, and is taking hold in places like the pacific northwest and Colorado.

Act now before it is too late. Because once it is lost, it never seems to come back. I say this as a 25+ year resident of California.

View Quote

Yep. I've already said it. If not now, when? It's not going to get better than a super majority R legislators and an R Governor that promised to sigh pro-gun bills. That will not be around forever. Governor is in 18. It could all change then. Of course if a D gets in the Rs will pass a half dozen sweet bills to send for the Governor to veto. Marion Hammer will proclaim: "We need more so we can fight more! Fight fight fight!!!"

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:44:57 AM EDT

[#15]

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Yep. I've already said it. If not now, when? It's not going to get better than a super majority R legislators and an R Governor that promised to sigh pro-gun bills. That will not be around forever. Governor is in 18. It could all change then. Of course if a D gets in the Rs will pass a half dozen sweet bills to send for the Governor to veto. Marion Hammer will proclaim: "We need more so we can fight more! Fight fight fight!!!"

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Quoted:
I don't have anything helpful to add but I will say I am worried for you FL guys.

If you can't get the GOP people to pass pro gun legislation, how hard with they stand up against dem attempts to jamb things like assault weapon bans, restriction in mag capacity or CCW issuance.
With all the northeasterners flocking to your state, I worry that you are headed down the same road that got California, and is taking hold in places like the pacific northwest and Colorado.

Act now before it is too late. Because once it is lost, it never seems to come back. I say this as a 25+ year resident of California.

Yep. I've already said it. If not now, when? It's not going to get better than a super majority R legislators and an R Governor that promised to sigh pro-gun bills. That will not be around forever. Governor is in 18. It could all change then. Of course if a D gets in the Rs will pass a half dozen sweet bills to send for the Governor to veto. Marion Hammer will proclaim: "We need more so we can fight more! Fight fight fight!!!"

That's what happened in DC with repealing Obamacare before Trump. They'd pass bills knowing they'd be vetoed. But they did it to look good. Now they're dragging ass.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:45:55 AM EDT

[#16]

OP, thank you for posting this. Very well written article about what's been happening in Florida. Thanks goes out to Miami_JBT for all your hard work and effort. I know your work and postings have opened my eyes to the Florida GOP and NRA.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:46:43 AM EDT

[#17]

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Yep. I've already said it. If not now, when? It's not going to get better than a super majority R legislators and an R Governor that promised to sigh pro-gun bills. That will not be around forever. Governor is in 18. It could all change then. Of course if a D gets in the Rs will pass a half dozen sweet bills to send for the Governor to veto. Marion Hammer will proclaim: "We need more so we can fight more! Fight fight fight!!!"

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't have anything helpful to add but I will say I am worried for you FL guys.

If you can't get the GOP people to pass pro gun legislation, how hard with they stand up against dem attempts to jamb things like assault weapon bans, restriction in mag capacity or CCW issuance.
With all the northeasterners flocking to your state, I worry that you are headed down the same road that got California, and is taking hold in places like the pacific northwest and Colorado.

Act now before it is too late. Because once it is lost, it never seems to come back. I say this as a 25+ year resident of California.

Yep. I've already said it. If not now, when? It's not going to get better than a super majority R legislators and an R Governor that promised to sigh pro-gun bills. That will not be around forever. Governor is in 18. It could all change then. Of course if a D gets in the Rs will pass a half dozen sweet bills to send for the Governor to veto. Marion Hammer will proclaim: "We need more so we can fight more! Fight fight fight!!!"

/NRA Life Member, "How do you know that? Have you actually ever bothered to contact the NRA? Do you even know how much the NRA actually does for you?" /NRA Life Member

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:52:11 AM EDT

[#18]

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/NRA Life Member, "How do you know that? Have you actually ever bothered to contact the NRA? Do you even know how much the NRA actually does for you?" /NRA Life Member

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The NRA saved me $.71/yr on my carry permit. In 4 years when I save enough, I will buy a Monster and have a toast to their hard work.

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:56:08 AM EDT

[#19]

This should be a guest article on TTAG

Posted: 5/11/2017 11:58:26 AM EDT

[#20]

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If the NRA is but of little account on the state level then why is it wrong to call them out on it? Were it not for the VCDL we would still be under the one gun a month law.....not that the NRA did not send out a "alert" taking the lion's share of the credit when they did next to nothing as far as working for it.

It seems to me that "working together" is a very one-sided affair when dealing with the NRA on the state grass-roots .org level. "Our way or the highway" and "all your ideas and accomplishments belong to us" comes to mind, even if the grass-root .org is in no way affiliated with the NRA.

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Quoted:

Fuck, guys...
Stop all the bickering and work together here. I'm sure it is just the misunderstandings and things said that can be too harshly on internet. Ultimately, we want the same thing and on the same side, here.
You guys know who is benefit from our bickering, right?!?!?!

If the NRA is but of little account on the state level then why is it wrong to call them out on it? Were it not for the VCDL we would still be under the one gun a month law.....not that the NRA did not send out a "alert" taking the lion's share of the credit when they did next to nothing as far as working for it.

It seems to me that "working together" is a very one-sided affair when dealing with the NRA on the state grass-roots .org level. "Our way or the highway" and "all your ideas and accomplishments belong to us" comes to mind, even if the grass-root .org is in no way affiliated with the NRA.

I have no problem calling NRA out...at all. My comment was more between our Arfcom members.

Posted: 5/11/2017 12:22:48 PM EDT

[#21]

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Seeing as how you are so fucking dense

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That is a perfect example of why you "no compromise" folks are never taken seriously and can never get anything done. Thanks for proving my point.

Posted: 5/11/2017 12:27:09 PM EDT

[#22]

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So what organization do all the NRA bashers who are pushing the exact same talking points today belong to? Is NAGR trying to make a move? What have they ever accomplished? I doubt GOA is making a come back. Do you all belong to some failure of a state level "no compromise" group? The fact that you all are pushing the exact same talking points says this is an orchestrated spamming of this forum by some entity.

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Or, people are straight tired of the NRA.

Instead of your accusation that it's "Orchestrated spamming" maybe it's instead what people call "A fucking clue".

Posted: 5/11/2017 12:31:22 PM EDT

[#23]

ITT once again the NRA is talked about like a homogeneous entity, but it's really a few different things, and the part with ALL of the money that could go towards directly the Bloomberg machine won't because it can't risk losing it's 200 million+ a year non-profit status.

Posted: 5/11/2017 12:43:10 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
Compromise.... that's all we've done in FL. Where did it get Us?

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It got Florida a shit ton of freedom going all the way back to 1987. Do you not realize how lucky you are when it comes to gun rights in Florida compared to almost every other state? Florida is where the shall issue CCW push gained momentum and then spread all across the country. The NRA helped push that and make it happen in Florida and elsewhere.

In the 1990s Michigan had a "may issue" permit system. For years MCRGO had pushed for shall issue. Do you know who the biggest opponent of the legislation was? Not the anti-gunners. A "no compromise" gun group kept fighting the bill because it wasn't perfect. They would yell and scream at the legislators that the bill wasn't perfect, to the point even the pro-gun legislators ignored them and ignored the entire shall issue bill. No compromise gets you NOTHING. Eventually the no compromise people dwindled down and after years of pushing shall-issue there was a large enough grass roots movement that we finally got Shall Issue passed in Michigan in late 2000. The vote was close. The NRA was on site at the capitol running around and making deals (compromising) with legislators that were sitting on the fence. At one point it looked like the votes would not be there. The legislator delayed, the NRA did what they do best, things resumed, and the bill passed. It didn't help that the no-compromise group was also there threatening to destroy pro-gun legislators if they voted for the bills because the bill didn't go far enough.

So what has compromise gotten us? Every single pro-gun law ever. When I say "compromise" I mean working with legislators to create legislation they can support, which usually means slightly more regulation or conditions. I'm not talking compromise in the way anti-gun people do, "give us half your guns now and we will let you keep the other half for a year". The NRA has never engaged in that type of compromise.

It is clear you have no political experience or idea of how things actually work. Why do you think legislators across both aisles are friends? They have to be. They have to work with one another in order to get things passed. That is just how it is.

Look at Trump, he was going to drain the swamp but now he is hanging out in it. Look at Rand Paul, he was completely anti-establishment, especially when the GOP establishment tried to derail him by robo calling us telling us to vote for a former Democrat in the primary. In less than a year Rand Paul was carrying Mitch McConnell's water. Why? He has to work with the others. He sure as hell doesn't want to and goes off on his own tangents from time to time but he has the choice of either working with them or getting nothing accomplished. That is just how it works. I don't make the rules and I'm not saying things should be that way but things are that way and it isn't going to change.

Posted: 5/11/2017 12:45:23 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

It got Florida a shit ton of freedom going all the way back to 1987. Do you not realize how lucky you are when it comes to gun rights in Florida compared to almost every other state? Florida is where the shall issue CCW push gained momentum and then spread all across the country. The NRA helped push that and make it happen in Florida and elsewhere.

In the 1990s Michigan had a "may issue" permit system. For years MCRGO had pushed for shall issue. Do you know who the biggest opponent of the legislation was? Not the anti-gunners. A "no compromise" gun group kept fighting the bill because it wasn't perfect. They would yell and scream at the legislators that the bill wasn't perfect, to the point even the pro-gun legislators ignored them and ignored the entire shall issue bill. No compromise gets you NOTHING. Eventually the no compromise people dwindled down and after years of pushing shall-issue there was a large enough grass roots movement that we finally got Shall Issue passed in Michigan in late 2000. The vote was close. The NRA was on site at the capitol running around and making deals (compromising) with legislators that were sitting on the fence. At one point it looked like the votes would not be there. The legislator delayed, the NRA did what they do best, things resumed, and the bill passed. It didn't help that the no-compromise group was also there threatening to destroy pro-gun legislators if they voted for the bills because the bill didn't go far enough.

So what has compromise gotten us? Every single pro-gun law ever. When I say "compromise" I mean working with legislators to create legislation they can support, which usually means slightly more regulation or conditions. I'm not talking compromise in the way anti-gun people do, "give us half your guns now and we will let you keep the other half for a year". The NRA has never engaged in that type of compromise.

It is clear you have no political experience or idea of how things actually work. Why do you think legislators across both aisles are friends? They have to be. They have to work with one another in order to get things passed. That is just how it is.

Look at Trump, he was going to drain the swamp but now he is hanging out in it. Look at Rand Paul, he was completely anti-establishment, especially when the GOP establishment tried to derail him by robo calling us telling us to vote for a former Democrat in the primary. In less than a year Rand Paul was carrying Mitch McConnell's water. Why? He has to work with the others. He sure as hell doesn't want to and goes off on his own tangents from time to time but he has the choice of either working with them or getting nothing accomplished. That is just how it works. I don't make the rules and I'm not saying things should be that way but things are that way and it isn't going to change.

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All I read here was "Aren't you thankful?"

I want to see the NRA pushing constitutional carry in all the southern states.

Posted: 5/11/2017 12:54:34 PM EDT

[#26]

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Quoted:

It got Florida a shit ton of freedom going all the way back to 1987... snip

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You mean when the NRA didn't oppose the open carry ban? The NRA traded unlicensed carry for licensed carry. That's not gaining Freedom bro.

Posted: 5/11/2017 12:54:40 PM EDT

[#27]

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That's what happened in DC with repealing Obamacare before Trump. They'd pass bills knowing they'd be vetoed. But they did it to look good. Now they're dragging ass.

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I don't have anything helpful to add but I will say I am worried for you FL guys.

If you can't get the GOP people to pass pro gun legislation, how hard with they stand up against dem attempts to jamb things like assault weapon bans, restriction in mag capacity or CCW issuance.
With all the northeasterners flocking to your state, I worry that you are headed down the same road that got California, and is taking hold in places like the pacific northwest and Colorado.

Act now before it is too late. Because once it is lost, it never seems to come back. I say this as a 25+ year resident of California.

Yep. I've already said it. If not now, when? It's not going to get better than a super majority R legislators and an R Governor that promised to sigh pro-gun bills. That will not be around forever. Governor is in 18. It could all change then. Of course if a D gets in the Rs will pass a half dozen sweet bills to send for the Governor to veto. Marion Hammer will proclaim: "We need more so we can fight more! Fight fight fight!!!"

That's what happened in DC with repealing Obamacare before Trump. They'd pass bills knowing they'd be vetoed. But they did it to look good. Now they're dragging ass.

Exactly.

I think many Republicans at the top really were wanting hillary to win-then they could continue playing the loser and put bill after bill up saying "We are trying so hard".

The HPA will be interesting to see,along with any other pro gun bills.Time to gain ground after 100+ years of "compromising" for losses at the fed level.

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:14:03 PM EDT

[#28]

We have the same issue with constitutional carry and Republican Mike Pitts. CC would pass both houses easily, but this one man has held it hostage for several election cycles. This time he poisoned the bill by making the penalty for passing a no guns sign huge fines and jail time, and possible loss of rights.

Aaaaand, he has an A+ rating from the NRA.

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:17:15 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
It got Florida a shit ton of freedom going all the way back to 1987. Do you not realize how lucky you are when it comes to gun rights in Florida compared to almost every other state? Florida is where the shall issue CCW push gained momentum and then spread all across the country. The NRA helped push that and make it happen in Florida and elsewhere.

In the 1990s Michigan had a "may issue" permit system. For years MCRGO had pushed for shall issue. Do you know who the biggest opponent of the legislation was? Not the anti-gunners. A "no compromise" gun group kept fighting the bill because it wasn't perfect. They would yell and scream at the legislators that the bill wasn't perfect, to the point even the pro-gun legislators ignored them and ignored the entire shall issue bill. No compromise gets you NOTHING. Eventually the no compromise people dwindled down and after years of pushing shall-issue there was a large enough grass roots movement that we finally got Shall Issue passed in Michigan in late 2000. The vote was close. The NRA was on site at the capitol running around and making deals (compromising) with legislators that were sitting on the fence. At one point it looked like the votes would not be there. The legislator delayed, the NRA did what they do best, things resumed, and the bill passed. It didn't help that the no-compromise group was also there threatening to destroy pro-gun legislators if they voted for the bills because the bill didn't go far enough.

So what has compromise gotten us? Every single pro-gun law ever. When I say "compromise" I mean working with legislators to create legislation they can support, which usually means slightly more regulation or conditions. I'm not talking compromise in the way anti-gun people do, "give us half your guns now and we will let you keep the other half for a year". The NRA has never engaged in that type of compromise.

It is clear you have no political experience or idea of how things actually work. Why do you think legislators across both aisles are friends? They have to be. They have to work with one another in order to get things passed. That is just how it is.

Look at Trump, he was going to drain the swamp but now he is hanging out in it. Look at Rand Paul, he was completely anti-establishment, especially when the GOP establishment tried to derail him by robo calling us telling us to vote for a former Democrat in the primary. In less than a year Rand Paul was carrying Mitch McConnell's water. Why? He has to work with the others. He sure as hell doesn't want to and goes off on his own tangents from time to time but he has the choice of either working with them or getting nothing accomplished. That is just how it works. I don't make the rules and I'm not saying things should be that way but things are that way and it isn't going to change.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Compromise.... that's all we've done in FL. Where did it get Us?

It got Florida a shit ton of freedom going all the way back to 1987. Do you not realize how lucky you are when it comes to gun rights in Florida compared to almost every other state? Florida is where the shall issue CCW push gained momentum and then spread all across the country. The NRA helped push that and make it happen in Florida and elsewhere.

In the 1990s Michigan had a "may issue" permit system. For years MCRGO had pushed for shall issue. Do you know who the biggest opponent of the legislation was? Not the anti-gunners. A "no compromise" gun group kept fighting the bill because it wasn't perfect. They would yell and scream at the legislators that the bill wasn't perfect, to the point even the pro-gun legislators ignored them and ignored the entire shall issue bill. No compromise gets you NOTHING. Eventually the no compromise people dwindled down and after years of pushing shall-issue there was a large enough grass roots movement that we finally got Shall Issue passed in Michigan in late 2000. The vote was close. The NRA was on site at the capitol running around and making deals (compromising) with legislators that were sitting on the fence. At one point it looked like the votes would not be there. The legislator delayed, the NRA did what they do best, things resumed, and the bill passed. It didn't help that the no-compromise group was also there threatening to destroy pro-gun legislators if they voted for the bills because the bill didn't go far enough.

So what has compromise gotten us? Every single pro-gun law ever. When I say "compromise" I mean working with legislators to create legislation they can support, which usually means slightly more regulation or conditions. I'm not talking compromise in the way anti-gun people do, "give us half your guns now and we will let you keep the other half for a year". The NRA has never engaged in that type of compromise.

It is clear you have no political experience or idea of how things actually work. Why do you think legislators across both aisles are friends? They have to be. They have to work with one another in order to get things passed. That is just how it is.

Look at Trump, he was going to drain the swamp but now he is hanging out in it. Look at Rand Paul, he was completely anti-establishment, especially when the GOP establishment tried to derail him by robo calling us telling us to vote for a former Democrat in the primary. In less than a year Rand Paul was carrying Mitch McConnell's water. Why? He has to work with the others. He sure as hell doesn't want to and goes off on his own tangents from time to time but he has the choice of either working with them or getting nothing accomplished. That is just how it works. I don't make the rules and I'm not saying things should be that way but things are that way and it isn't going to change.

1987 was a pivotal year for FL. Yet we have a Republican Super Majority andnwe can't even get Permitted Campus Carry or Open Carry and the rest of South is blowing right by leaving us in their dust. Georgia just got Campus Carry. They have Open Carry. Texas has both.

Yet FL, who was once on the forefront of the 2nd Amendment movement is slowlying falling behind.

I have been working with both sides of the aisle. My State Senstor is a Democrat with a "D" rating. He supported SB-128 Burden of Proof in its original form before the gutting it got.

The NRA did engage in that comprise in 2011 with Open Carry. Marion Hammer supported Ellyn Bogdanoff gutting the Open Carry and removing Open Carry. She backed it, supported it, and approved of it.

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:19:23 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Exactly.

I think many Republicans at the top really were wanting hillary to win-then they could continue playing the loser and put bill after bill up saying "We are trying so hard".

The HPA will be interesting to see,along with any other pro gun bills.Time to gain ground after 100+ years of "compromising" for losses at the fed level.

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Quoted:
I don't have anything helpful to add but I will say I am worried for you FL guys.

If you can't get the GOP people to pass pro gun legislation, how hard with they stand up against dem attempts to jamb things like assault weapon bans, restriction in mag capacity or CCW issuance.
With all the northeasterners flocking to your state, I worry that you are headed down the same road that got California, and is taking hold in places like the pacific northwest and Colorado.

Act now before it is too late. Because once it is lost, it never seems to come back. I say this as a 25+ year resident of California.

Yep. I've already said it. If not now, when? It's not going to get better than a super majority R legislators and an R Governor that promised to sigh pro-gun bills. That will not be around forever. Governor is in 18. It could all change then. Of course if a D gets in the Rs will pass a half dozen sweet bills to send for the Governor to veto. Marion Hammer will proclaim: "We need more so we can fight more! Fight fight fight!!!"

That's what happened in DC with repealing Obamacare before Trump. They'd pass bills knowing they'd be vetoed. But they did it to look good. Now they're dragging ass.

Exactly.

I think many Republicans at the top really were wanting hillary to win-then they could continue playing the loser and put bill after bill up saying "We are trying so hard".

The HPA will be interesting to see,along with any other pro gun bills.Time to gain ground after 100+ years of "compromising" for losses at the fed level.

Let's face it. All average joes like us?? We are on our own.
All the gun laws--passed or not --ain't affect them an iota. Whoever in power--Dem or Rep--ain't affect them an iota.
We, occasionally, get some sympathetic individual in Congress who take up on our cause, but with a price and aligning with their agendas.

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:25:25 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
The NRA has had in the past have Board Members that were anti gun.

Joaquin Jackson of the Texas Rangers is a prime example.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/cc/cd/de/cccdde9b0451c416983ff2736195a690.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSGySNLyACE

As a NRA Board Member and he flat out said in 2005 that:

That was in 2005.

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Quoted:
The NRA has had in the past have Board Members that were anti gun.

Joaquin Jackson of the Texas Rangers is a prime example.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/cc/cd/de/cccdde9b0451c416983ff2736195a690.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSGySNLyACE

As a NRA Board Member and he flat out said in 2005 that:

"I personally believe a weapon should never have over, as far as a civilian, a five-round capacity. If you’re a hunter, if you’re going to go hunting with a weapon, you shouldn’t need over but one round. So five rounds would be plenty ... Personally, I think assault weapons basically…need to be in the hands of the military, and in the hands of the police."

That was in 2005.

And there are people here that support morons like that.

Tag to read the hissy fits from the Baghdad Bobs of GD that pop up when ever the NRA is called out on their limpwrist bullshit.

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:27:06 PM EDT

[#32]

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That is a perfect example of why you "no compromise" folks are never taken seriously and can never get anything done. Thanks for proving my point.

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Seeing as how you are so fucking dense

That is a perfect example of why you "no compromise" folks are never taken seriously and can never get anything done. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm sorry, truly. I just get fed up with reading the same stuff over and over. I'm far from "no compromise". An omnibus bill with everything I want is not going to pass, I know that.

It's going to take multiple years and legislative sessions to get everything done. There hasn't been an issue getting bills introduced in the FL Chambers, its preventing them from be snuffed in the crib when in committee and then getting them to the floor that is the issue. For years now. And it's the same reasons over and over.

I want the NRA to help, it would be great if they were leading the way in FL, now. The NRA has the network and the connections. A grassroots effort is hard to make work. But at this point, Marion Hammer is not helping. I'm not indicting the NRA at large, just her.

Something as simple as press release indicating that the NRA cannot faithfully endorse Sen. Flores as a friend of FL gunowners, after the complete 180 by Sen. Flores, would have been a Godsend. Did we get that? No.

While I have no issue with invectives or denigrations being hurled at me, I will make sure that if we continue our conversation, I will take your sensitive nature into account.

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by calling you "fucking dense".

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:31:45 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
So what organization do all the NRA bashers who are pushing the exact same talking points today belong to? Is NAGR trying to make a move? What have they ever accomplished? I doubt GOA is making a come back. Do you all belong to some failure of a state level "no compromise" group? The fact that you all are pushing the exact same talking points says this is an orchestrated spamming of this forum by some entity.

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lol, try this tried old shit on someone else.

You guys whine when ever someone mentions anything that the NRA fucks up. God forbid that anyone states the obvious that the NRA has issues with practicing what they claim to believe/support and that the organization needs new leadership.

Ironic that you talk about orchestrated spamming too. lol

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:37:37 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

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I'm sorry, truly. I just get fed up with reading the same stuff over and over. I'm far from "no compromise". An omnibus bill with everything I want is not going to pass, I know that.

It's going to take multiple years and legislative sessions to get everything done. There hasn't been an issue getting bills introduced in the FL Chambers, its preventing them from be snuffed in the crib when in committee and then getting them to the floor that is the issue. For years now. And it's the same reasons over and over.

I want the NRA to help, it would be great if they were leading the way in FL, now. The NRA has the network and the connections. A grassroots effort is hard to make work. But at this point, Marion Hammer is not helping. I'm not indicting the NRA at large, just her.

Something as simple as press release indicating that the NRA cannot faithfully endorse Sen. Flores as a friend of FL gunowners, after the complete 180 by Sen. Flores, would have been a Godsend. Did we get that? No.

While I have no issue with invectives or denigrations being hurled at me, I will make sure that if we continue our conversation, I will take your sensitive nature into account.

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by calling you "fucking dense".

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I like you!

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:41:48 PM EDT

[#35]

Hey, Marion Hammer supported John Cushman and guess who was running against him? Our very own Adam Kraut (Supermoose).

NRA Past President Marion P. Hammer is Asking for Your Help

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:43:23 PM EDT

[#36]

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@Miami_JBT

I'd say to simply be aware of what's happened in Florida under the NRA's watch, to support grassroots/local pro-2A groups.

ARFCOM is a good place to get messaging such as this so please take this stuff seriously, because if this can happen under the conditions in Florida, it absolutely can happen anywhere.

My days of simply taking the NRA and their press releases at face value are OVER. For very good reason.

Dig deeper in to the legislative efforts in your state and others. Miami_JBT and I have talked offline and it was he who opened my eyes to this very regrettable reality regarding the current state of the NRA in Florida.

Previously, I took them at face value. It was a mistake I will not make again.

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We have the same problem in NJ. I think the NRA gave up on us a long time ago. Thank God for guys like Nolo who never give up. (He doesn't even live here). The New Jersey 2nd Amendment Society fights very hard for our rights. Guess who gets my gun rights money now?

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:50:28 PM EDT

[#37]

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We have the same problem in NJ. I think the NRA gave up on us a long time ago. Thank God for guys like Nolo who never give up. (He doesn't even live here). The New Jersey 2nd Amendment Society fights very hard for our rights. Guess who gets my gun rights money now?

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The problem we have in Florida is that our state-level organization is run solely by the National Rifle Association through Marion Hammer.

Posted: 5/11/2017 1:55:46 PM EDT

[#38]

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Yet we have a Republican Super Majority andnwe can't even get Permitted Campus Carry or Open Carry and the rest of South is blowing right by leaving us in their dust. Georgia just got Campus Carry.

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With so many restrictions on it that many say it's almost useless.

Posted: 5/11/2017 2:02:38 PM EDT

[#39]

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There is more money for the NRA to be made in fear mongering than winning.

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this is true.

and book clubs.

there is clearly not enough money in supporting gun owners.

Posted: 5/11/2017 2:10:40 PM EDT

[#40]

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And there are people here that support morons like that.

Tag to read the hissy fits from the Baghdad Bobs of GD that pop up when ever the NRA is called out on their limpwrist bullshit.

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Same thing if you start bashing POS Republicans.

Romney was a good example-defend him no matter what he did.

Posted: 5/11/2017 2:31:21 PM EDT

[#41]

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The problem we have in Florida is that our state-level organization is run solely by the National Rifle Association through Marion Hammer.

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What's the best current state organization in your opinion.

Posted: 5/11/2017 3:09:00 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
All I read here was "Aren't you thankful?"

I want to see the NRA pushing constitutional carry in all the southern states.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

It got Florida a shit ton of freedom going all the way back to 1987. Do you not realize how lucky you are when it comes to gun rights in Florida compared to almost every other state? Florida is where the shall issue CCW push gained momentum and then spread all across the country. The NRA helped push that and make it happen in Florida and elsewhere.

In the 1990s Michigan had a "may issue" permit system. For years MCRGO had pushed for shall issue. Do you know who the biggest opponent of the legislation was? Not the anti-gunners. A "no compromise" gun group kept fighting the bill because it wasn't perfect. They would yell and scream at the legislators that the bill wasn't perfect, to the point even the pro-gun legislators ignored them and ignored the entire shall issue bill. No compromise gets you NOTHING. Eventually the no compromise people dwindled down and after years of pushing shall-issue there was a large enough grass roots movement that we finally got Shall Issue passed in Michigan in late 2000. The vote was close. The NRA was on site at the capitol running around and making deals (compromising) with legislators that were sitting on the fence. At one point it looked like the votes would not be there. The legislator delayed, the NRA did what they do best, things resumed, and the bill passed. It didn't help that the no-compromise group was also there threatening to destroy pro-gun legislators if they voted for the bills because the bill didn't go far enough.

So what has compromise gotten us? Every single pro-gun law ever. When I say "compromise" I mean working with legislators to create legislation they can support, which usually means slightly more regulation or conditions. I'm not talking compromise in the way anti-gun people do, "give us half your guns now and we will let you keep the other half for a year". The NRA has never engaged in that type of compromise.

It is clear you have no political experience or idea of how things actually work. Why do you think legislators across both aisles are friends? They have to be. They have to work with one another in order to get things passed. That is just how it is.

Look at Trump, he was going to drain the swamp but now he is hanging out in it. Look at Rand Paul, he was completely anti-establishment, especially when the GOP establishment tried to derail him by robo calling us telling us to vote for a former Democrat in the primary. In less than a year Rand Paul was carrying Mitch McConnell's water. Why? He has to work with the others. He sure as hell doesn't want to and goes off on his own tangents from time to time but he has the choice of either working with them or getting nothing accomplished. That is just how it works. I don't make the rules and I'm not saying things should be that way but things are that way and it isn't going to change.

All I read here was "Aren't you thankful?"

I want to see the NRA pushing constitutional carry in all the southern states.

Not to mention his post completely ignores the OP.

Is that just a huge mulligan (or several) that Florida gun owners should ignore?

Give me a fuckin break.

Posted: 5/11/2017 3:16:10 PM EDT

[#43]

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Quoted:
Not to mention his post completely ignores the OP.

Is that just a huge mulligan (or several) that Florida gun owners should ignore?

Give me a fuckin break.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

It got Florida a shit ton of freedom going all the way back to 1987. Do you not realize how lucky you are when it comes to gun rights in Florida compared to almost every other state? Florida is where the shall issue CCW push gained momentum and then spread all across the country. The NRA helped push that and make it happen in Florida and elsewhere.

In the 1990s Michigan had a "may issue" permit system. For years MCRGO had pushed for shall issue. Do you know who the biggest opponent of the legislation was? Not the anti-gunners. A "no compromise" gun group kept fighting the bill because it wasn't perfect. They would yell and scream at the legislators that the bill wasn't perfect, to the point even the pro-gun legislators ignored them and ignored the entire shall issue bill. No compromise gets you NOTHING. Eventually the no compromise people dwindled down and after years of pushing shall-issue there was a large enough grass roots movement that we finally got Shall Issue passed in Michigan in late 2000. The vote was close. The NRA was on site at the capitol running around and making deals (compromising) with legislators that were sitting on the fence. At one point it looked like the votes would not be there. The legislator delayed, the NRA did what they do best, things resumed, and the bill passed. It didn't help that the no-compromise group was also there threatening to destroy pro-gun legislators if they voted for the bills because the bill didn't go far enough.

So what has compromise gotten us? Every single pro-gun law ever. When I say "compromise" I mean working with legislators to create legislation they can support, which usually means slightly more regulation or conditions. I'm not talking compromise in the way anti-gun people do, "give us half your guns now and we will let you keep the other half for a year". The NRA has never engaged in that type of compromise.

It is clear you have no political experience or idea of how things actually work. Why do you think legislators across both aisles are friends? They have to be. They have to work with one another in order to get things passed. That is just how it is.

Look at Trump, he was going to drain the swamp but now he is hanging out in it. Look at Rand Paul, he was completely anti-establishment, especially when the GOP establishment tried to derail him by robo calling us telling us to vote for a former Democrat in the primary. In less than a year Rand Paul was carrying Mitch McConnell's water. Why? He has to work with the others. He sure as hell doesn't want to and goes off on his own tangents from time to time but he has the choice of either working with them or getting nothing accomplished. That is just how it works. I don't make the rules and I'm not saying things should be that way but things are that way and it isn't going to change.

All I read here was "Aren't you thankful?"

I want to see the NRA pushing constitutional carry in all the southern states.

Not to mention his post completely ignores the OP.

Is that just a huge mulligan (or several) that Florida gun owners should ignore?

Give me a fuckin break.

Most people seem to think we're just FLoridiots that don't understand how the NRA works, when they just choose to ignore how poorly it works.

Posted: 5/11/2017 3:17:01 PM EDT

[#44]

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Quoted:
Hey, Marion Hammer supported John Cushman and guess who was running against him? Our very own Adam Kraut (Supermoose).

NRA Past President Marion P. Hammer is Asking for Your Help

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You see, I can't go to Atlanta for the NRA convention this year. I'm staying in Tallahassee fighting for progun legislation to help insure our firearms freedom. We are in the last two weeks of Florida's Legislative Session and I have to stand and fight here.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Posted: 5/11/2017 3:19:46 PM EDT

[#45]

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Quoted:
Pretty disgusting to see how the NRA has so completely failed in Florida. Almost looks like they are complicit not incompetent.

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Yes

Posted: 5/11/2017 3:22:27 PM EDT

[#46]

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Quoted:

You see, I can't go to Atlanta for the NRA convention this year. I'm staying in Tallahassee fighting for progun legislation to help insure our firearms freedom. We are in the last two weeks of Florida's Legislative Session and I have to stand and fight here.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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WOW

Posted: 5/11/2017 3:23:52 PM EDT

[#47]

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Quoted:
It is a problem all the hard core no compromise folks have. Their attitude is "you don't support 100% of my views, only 99% so FUCK YOU". Then they wonder why people just ignore them.

Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong.

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For one, Miami_JBT is running for the NRA Board.

We just watched Nolo and SuperMoose attempt the same, unsuccessfully.

Miami_JBT has a tough road, but it's one that must be paved by the support of NRA voting membership.

The best route currently is to grow a significant grassroots alternative to NRA "representation". Florida is simply not represented by the NRA. It's either more of the same failures, or people get behind organizations who will actually "Stand and Fight" as the NRA motto goes.

And by the way, the NRA has a history in Florida of intentionally marginalizing grassroots organizations. Let that sink in and ask yourself "Why would they do that?" Why not join forces to assure wins? Thats something only the NRA can speak to. And quite frankly, there's no good answer what so ever.

It is too bad that he has a shitty condescending attitude and seems to speak from a position of ignorance and anger. He will not be getting my support.

It is a problem all the hard core no compromise folks have. Their attitude is "you don't support 100% of my views, only 99% so FUCK YOU". Then they wonder why people just ignore them.

Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong.

Absolutely full of shit post.

No one is lying about the feckless actions of the NRA. They have been absofuckinglootly worthless and purposefully detrimental to Florida freedom for many years.

Posted: 5/11/2017 3:25:28 PM EDT

[#48]

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Quoted:
Absolutely full of shit post.

No one is lying about the feckless actions of the NRA. They have been absofuckinglootly worthless and purposefully detrimental to Florida freedom for many years.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

For one, Miami_JBT is running for the NRA Board.

We just watched Nolo and SuperMoose attempt the same, unsuccessfully.

Miami_JBT has a tough road, but it's one that must be paved by the support of NRA voting membership.

The best route currently is to grow a significant grassroots alternative to NRA "representation". Florida is simply not represented by the NRA. It's either more of the same failures, or people get behind organizations who will actually "Stand and Fight" as the NRA motto goes.

And by the way, the NRA has a history in Florida of intentionally marginalizing grassroots organizations. Let that sink in and ask yourself "Why would they do that?" Why not join forces to assure wins? Thats something only the NRA can speak to. And quite frankly, there's no good answer what so ever.

It is too bad that he has a shitty condescending attitude and seems to speak from a position of ignorance and anger. He will not be getting my support.

It is a problem all the hard core no compromise folks have. Their attitude is "you don't support 100% of my views, only 99% so FUCK YOU". Then they wonder why people just ignore them.

Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong.

Absolutely full of shit post.

No one is lying about the feckless actions of the NRA. They have been absofuckinglootly worthless and purposefully detrimental to Florida freedom for many years.

He's not the only one calling people liars without producing the "lies" that are surely still quotable...

Posted: 5/11/2017 3:26:46 PM EDT

[#49]

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You claim "the NRA did nothing in Florida". That is a lie. That is the only thing that I have called you on. I posted updates from the NRA in Florida and you called it bullshit stating that I had no clue. So you act like you know more than the NRA yet I can tell you have never once met or worked with the NRA at the state level.

There is the ideal way politics works and there is reality on how politics works. Then there is the "no compromise" way that people demand it works. The approach that I see you taking is the no compromise way, which is demanding everything and attacking those who don't jump on board. I'm only 41 but have over 20 years of grassroots work at various states working on pro-gun legislation and organizations. The way you want things to work, DOES NOT WORK.

The NRA isn't a god. They can't control legislators. They don't decide which legislators run. They don't control party leadership. Yet they have to work closely with all of them to get anything done, just like Trump and the GOPe. Unless a legislator has a D or F rating, the NRA is not going to work to defeat them. Why? Look at fucking John McCain and Lindsay Graham. Those two would vote to pass a new AW ban in a heart beat but they aren't going anywhere. So the NRA has to work with them and will never speak out against them. The same thing happens at the state level. Unless a legislator is in a vulnerable position, the NRA has no leverage with them. If the NRA spoke out against them and they retain their seat, then the NRA just lost a necessary vote for legislation. That is why the NRA generally doesn't endorse people in a primary. The party leadership pushes their people. The party leadership then controls what bills will and won't be brought up. All the NRA can do is apply leverage. That is all a lobby can do.

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Just like you insult me and claim everything that has happened is a lie.

On June 28, 2016. "A" rated and NRA endorsed Republican Senator Anitere Flores publicly stated that she favors gun control and actually voted for a Special Legislative Session for Gun Control. Then the very next week she sent a letter to Marion Hammer and stated that the 2nd Amendment can't be infringed by government.

In FL, the traditional method of endorsement and rating is done byba questionnaire. But Flores skipped that and went with a personal letter addressed specifically to Marion Hammer. The NRA supported her in November 2016.

Then when things started happening, I was able to find out straight from Flores' office that she will kill pro gun bills and Marion Hammer stated to the media that if Flores was an issue she'd send out a email alert.

Well, Flores killed pro gun bills. Marion Hammer was not proactive in her job. She was reactive and that isn't how you fight for better rights in FL.

You have to be proactive and put pressure on them.

You claim "the NRA did nothing in Florida". That is a lie. That is the only thing that I have called you on. I posted updates from the NRA in Florida and you called it bullshit stating that I had no clue. So you act like you know more than the NRA yet I can tell you have never once met or worked with the NRA at the state level.

There is the ideal way politics works and there is reality on how politics works. Then there is the "no compromise" way that people demand it works. The approach that I see you taking is the no compromise way, which is demanding everything and attacking those who don't jump on board. I'm only 41 but have over 20 years of grassroots work at various states working on pro-gun legislation and organizations. The way you want things to work, DOES NOT WORK.

The NRA isn't a god. They can't control legislators. They don't decide which legislators run. They don't control party leadership. Yet they have to work closely with all of them to get anything done, just like Trump and the GOPe. Unless a legislator has a D or F rating, the NRA is not going to work to defeat them. Why? Look at fucking John McCain and Lindsay Graham. Those two would vote to pass a new AW ban in a heart beat but they aren't going anywhere. So the NRA has to work with them and will never speak out against them. The same thing happens at the state level. Unless a legislator is in a vulnerable position, the NRA has no leverage with them. If the NRA spoke out against them and they retain their seat, then the NRA just lost a necessary vote for legislation. That is why the NRA generally doesn't endorse people in a primary. The party leadership pushes their people. The party leadership then controls what bills will and won't be brought up. All the NRA can do is apply leverage. That is all a lobby can do.

Bullshit.

Posted: 5/11/2017 3:28:31 PM EDT

[#50]

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That is a perfect example of why you "no compromise" folks are never taken seriously and can never get anything done. Thanks for proving my point.

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Seeing as how you are so fucking dense

That is a perfect example of why you "no compromise" folks are never taken seriously and can never get anything done. Thanks for proving my point.

How big is the water jug that you are carrying? Pics? Are you the beekeepers other account????