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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:31:33 AM EDT
[#1]
We'll I'm in.
Start a new state level organization? It's not exactly rocket science. State level like VCDL, complementary to national efforts, but thoroughly on our own down here. I still support our efforts to affect the NRA and its board, but this years' meeting kinda showed the futility of that. The real powers that be will never allow it. Let's get actual names (maybe anonymized last names in a petition?), symbolic initiation fees just to validate names/intentions and start getting a real count of who's in. I'm in. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:35:11 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what organization do all the NRA bashers who are pushing the exact same talking points today belong to? Is NAGR trying to make a move? What have they ever accomplished? I doubt GOA is making a come back. Do you all belong to some failure of a state level "no compromise" group? The fact that you all are pushing the exact same talking points says this is an orchestrated spamming of this forum by some entity. lol You're comparing the largest gun palm greasers... I mean lobbyists to organizations 1/87th their size lol SAF has done as much as the NRA in the last 10 years. IT's funny when the NRA doesn't do anything at state level it's because 'it's not what they do', but when sticking up for them NRA, supporters use state level stuff (like IL) lol Hard to take them over when they shoot down people that actually fight for gun rights (Nolo and Moose). |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:36:48 AM EDT
[#3]
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Reminds me of CA when CA passed its own AWB. 
Pro gun my fucking ass.
Only good thing was the final push to realize NY was lost and to GTFO....... |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:37:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what organization do all the NRA bashers who are pushing the exact same talking points today belong to? Is NAGR trying to make a move? What have they ever accomplished? I doubt GOA is making a come back. Do you all belong to some failure of a state level "no compromise" group? The fact that you all are pushing the exact same talking points says this is an orchestrated spamming of this forum by some entity. LOL.... orchestrated spamming? I've been here since 2007. 10 years.... But now I'm part of some nefarious shadow group. LOL. What State Level org in FL? Other than Marion Hammer's USC and FL Carry there isn't anything. Stay in KY please. When it comes to KY I don't tell their residents how things are done in their State. I listen to them. FL ain't KY. Sadly things are screwed up here. We're trying to did it and she'd light on what the problems are. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:37:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is too bad that he has a shitty condescending attitude and seems to speak from a position of ignorance and anger. He will not be getting my support. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For one, Miami_JBT is running for the NRA Board. We just watched Nolo and SuperMoose attempt the same, unsuccessfully. Miami_JBT has a tough road, but it's one that must be paved by the support of NRA voting membership. The best route currently is to grow a significant grassroots alternative to NRA "representation". Florida is simply not represented by the NRA. It's either more of the same failures, or people get behind organizations who will actually "Stand and Fight" as the NRA motto goes. And by the way, the NRA has a history in Florida of intentionally marginalizing grassroots organizations. Let that sink in and ask yourself "Why would they do that?" Why not join forces to assure wins? Thats something only the NRA can speak to. And quite frankly, there's no good answer what so ever. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:38:32 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is too bad that he has a shitty condescending attitude and seems to speak from a position of ignorance and anger. He will not be getting my support. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For one, Miami_JBT is running for the NRA Board. We just watched Nolo and SuperMoose attempt the same, unsuccessfully. Miami_JBT has a tough road, but it's one that must be paved by the support of NRA voting membership. The best route currently is to grow a significant grassroots alternative to NRA "representation". Florida is simply not represented by the NRA. It's either more of the same failures, or people get behind organizations who will actually "Stand and Fight" as the NRA motto goes. And by the way, the NRA has a history in Florida of intentionally marginalizing grassroots organizations. Let that sink in and ask yourself "Why would they do that?" Why not join forces to assure wins? Thats something only the NRA can speak to. And quite frankly, there's no good answer what so ever. 
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:40:20 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SAF has done as much as the NRA in the last 10 years. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:42:26 AM EDT
[#8]
The NRA doesn't fight all fights. Far from it. And it is completely normal for the NRA to concede on 2A bills (including AR15/AK bans) in states that they have no interest in engaging in. I have personally called NRA Hqs and had these conversations. It is how things are. Don't expect them to engage in all issues that you think they should.
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:43:03 AM EDT
[#9]
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I always ask people that bitch about government if they've voted. I ask them if they've contacted their elected representatives, let alone if they know who they are. When they say no I tell them that they have no right to speak up since they have taken no action to gain a voice in the issues. With the NRA, it is made up of its members. Same with the GOP. If neither base actually voices concern then no change will occur. I've been a NRA member since 1994. I've been a Republican since I registered to vote when I turned 18. Change can only come from the membership. In the NRA they have set it up in a manner to weaken the membership. But they can't outright silence us. This is why I'm running. I'm just one guy. But I believe that I can be the voice and the stick wielded by the majority of the membership. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:43:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For one, Miami_JBT is running for the NRA Board. We just watched Nolo and SuperMoose attempt the same, unsuccessfully. Miami_JBT has a tough road, but it's one that must be paved by the support of NRA voting membership. The best route currently is to grow a significant grassroots alternative to NRA "representation". Florida is simply not represented by the NRA. It's either more of the same failures, or people get behind organizations who will actually "Stand and Fight" as the NRA motto goes. And by the way, the NRA has a history in Florida of intentionally marginalizing grassroots organizations. Let that sink in and ask yourself "Why would they do that?" Why not join forces to assure wins? Thats something only the NRA can speak to. And quite frankly, there's no good answer what so ever. Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:43:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At the state level? You are full of it just like all the other bashers. Any progress on gun rights in Texas has come from either the TSRA or the Grass Roots. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:44:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reminds me of NY when we elected a Republican Governor (Pataki,who also ran for President),and he went ahead and pushed for,and signed,the State AWB.
Pro gun my fucking ass.
Only good thing was the final push to realize NY was lost and to GTFO....... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Reminds me of CA when CA passed its own AWB.
Pro gun my fucking ass.
Only good thing was the final push to realize NY was lost and to GTFO....... The 1989 California AWB was signed into law by a Republican Governor. Reagan banned open carry because the Black Panthers were exercising their rights. Sure, they were assholes but they said as Black that they weren't going to be disarmed and marched on the Capitol to address their grievences. But Reagan still outlawed open carry in California. He later publicly supported the Clinton AWB. With that action that he took in 1968. Is it right to outlaw a constitutional right because a couple of asshats are exercising it? Should we outlaw public speaking and restrict the 1st Amendment because of Antifa? |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:44:50 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is too bad that he has a shitty condescending attitude and seems to speak from a position of ignorance and anger. He will not be getting my support.
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:45:41 AM EDT
[#14]
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I've voted R since my first eligible election in 94. It has gotten us nowhere. I do not expect my membership to the NRA to differ. These orgs can't really be fixed. They're rotten to the core. If we ever want change, they have to be replaced. This is just the sad truth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I always ask people that bitch about government if they've voted. I ask them if they've contacted their elected representatives, let alone if they know who they are. When they say no I tell them that they have no right to speak up since they have taken no action to gain a voice in the issues. With the NRA, it is made up of its members. Same with the GOP. If neither base actually voices concern then no change will occur. I've been a NRA member since 1994. I've been a Republican since I registered to vote when I turned 18. Change can only come from the membership. In the NRA they have set it up in a manner to weaken the membership. But they can't outright silence us. This is why I'm running. I'm just one guy. But I believe that I can be the voice and the stick wielded by the majority of the membership. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:46:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh Well Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It is too bad that he has a shitty condescending attitude and seems to speak from a position of ignorance and anger. He will not be getting my support. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:46:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is more money for the NRA to be made in fear mongering than winning. Like union news letters. The NRA isn't about the Second Amendment, it's about the NRA. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:47:30 AM EDT
[#17]
If you wanna help with the grassroots change from INSIDE the NRA take a trip over here and maybe get involved if you feel like it.
Grassroots volunteers |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:51:03 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I support the NRA as much as anyone, I was a District Friends of NRA Chairman for years, but the Texas State Rifle Association is so far ahead of the NRA here it's not even funny. We don't even really have an NRA rep. in Texas, they list one but she's NEVER here because-- 1. They know Texas is Conservative 2. We have TSRA 3. New Mexico Legislature- also her territory, meets the same time as Texas and she has her hands full over there. That's just fact. Any progress on gun rights in Texas has come from either the TSRA or the Grass Roots. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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At the state level? You are full of it just like all the other bashers. Any progress on gun rights in Texas has come from either the TSRA or the Grass Roots. MCRGO was given credit for getting shall issue CCW passed, yet it never would have happened without the NRA bringing in their people and helping us. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:51:28 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh Well Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
For one, Miami_JBT is running for the NRA Board. We just watched Nolo and SuperMoose attempt the same, unsuccessfully. Miami_JBT has a tough road, but it's one that must be paved by the support of NRA voting membership. The best route currently is to grow a significant grassroots alternative to NRA "representation". Florida is simply not represented by the NRA. It's either more of the same failures, or people get behind organizations who will actually "Stand and Fight" as the NRA motto goes. And by the way, the NRA has a history in Florida of intentionally marginalizing grassroots organizations. Let that sink in and ask yourself "Why would they do that?" Why not join forces to assure wins? Thats something only the NRA can speak to. And quite frankly, there's no good answer what so ever. We need to go grassroots. Someone getting on the NRA board AND making a change is a longshot. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:52:07 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a problem all the hard core no compromise folks have. Their attitude is "you don't support 100% of my views, only 99% so FUCK YOU". Then they wonder why people just ignore them. Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For one, Miami_JBT is running for the NRA Board. We just watched Nolo and SuperMoose attempt the same, unsuccessfully. Miami_JBT has a tough road, but it's one that must be paved by the support of NRA voting membership. The best route currently is to grow a significant grassroots alternative to NRA "representation". Florida is simply not represented by the NRA. It's either more of the same failures, or people get behind organizations who will actually "Stand and Fight" as the NRA motto goes. And by the way, the NRA has a history in Florida of intentionally marginalizing grassroots organizations. Let that sink in and ask yourself "Why would they do that?" Why not join forces to assure wins? Thats something only the NRA can speak to. And quite frankly, there's no good answer what so ever. Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong. On June 28, 2016. "A" rated and NRA endorsed Republican Senator Anitere Flores publicly stated that she favors gun control and actually voted for a Special Legislative Session for Gun Control. Then the very next week she sent a letter to Marion Hammer and stated that the 2nd Amendment can't be infringed by government. In FL, the traditional method of endorsement and rating is done byba questionnaire. But Flores skipped that and went with a personal letter addressed specifically to Marion Hammer. The NRA supported her in November 2016. Then when things started happening, I was able to find out straight from Flores' office that she will kill pro gun bills and Marion Hammer stated to the media that if Flores was an issue she'd send out a email alert. Well, Flores killed pro gun bills. Marion Hammer was not proactive in her job. She was reactive and that isn't how you fight for better rights in FL. You have to be proactive and put pressure on them. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:53:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I support the NRA as much as anyone, I was a District Friends of NRA Chairman for years, but the Texas State Rifle Association is so far ahead of the NRA here it's not even funny. We don't even really have an NRA rep. in Texas, they list one but she's NEVER here because-- 1. They know Texas is Conservative 2. We have TSRA 3. New Mexico Legislature- also her territory, meets the same time as Texas and she has her hands full over there. That's just fact. Any progress on gun rights in Texas has come from either the TSRA or the Grass Roots. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
At the state level? You are full of it just like all the other bashers. Any progress on gun rights in Texas has come from either the TSRA or the Grass Roots. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:54:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the NRA privately helping them in the background. That is how the NRA works, through state level groups. I was heavily involved in Michigan's fight to get shall issue CCW years ago. The NRA was constantly there, providing funding, sending out mailers, talking to legislators...etc. Do you know whose name was used to get all the information out, MCRGO the state level group that I belonged to and was helping. The NRA was directing most of their efforts through that organization so that there would be a state level grass roots face when it came to the media. Unless you are on the board or executive committee of the state level group you will never know what the NRA is doing and letting the state level organizations credit for. MCRGO was given credit for getting shall issue CCW passed, yet it never would have happened without the NRA bringing in their people and helping us. Still the best option at this point, just needs a little help and a little direction. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:54:49 AM EDT
[#23]
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Pot, Kettle and EVERYTHING that it entails...UNREAL Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It is too bad that he has a shitty condescending attitude and seems to speak from a position of ignorance and anger. He will not be getting my support. 
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:56:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There we go with that shitty attitude. "Fuck the NRA Benefactor Members, no one needs them anyway." is what I hear you saying. I've helped gather signatures for several people from here that ran for the NRA board. I won't be doing that for you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It is too bad that he has a shitty condescending attitude and seems to speak from a position of ignorance and anger. He will not be getting my support. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 9:57:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a problem all the hard core no compromise folks have. Their attitude is "you don't support 100% of my views, only 99% so FUCK YOU". Then they wonder why people just ignore them. Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For one, Miami_JBT is running for the NRA Board. We just watched Nolo and SuperMoose attempt the same, unsuccessfully. Miami_JBT has a tough road, but it's one that must be paved by the support of NRA voting membership. The best route currently is to grow a significant grassroots alternative to NRA "representation". Florida is simply not represented by the NRA. It's either more of the same failures, or people get behind organizations who will actually "Stand and Fight" as the NRA motto goes. And by the way, the NRA has a history in Florida of intentionally marginalizing grassroots organizations. Let that sink in and ask yourself "Why would they do that?" Why not join forces to assure wins? Thats something only the NRA can speak to. And quite frankly, there's no good answer what so ever. Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong.
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:00:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Didn't even read the whole post but you need to quit focusing on the NRA and focus on your state GOP.
This shits too easy. Get with the party leader and get her poisoned ass pulled off every committee she's on. VOTE HER OUT OF OFFICE! IT"S YOUR STATE GOP! Not the NRA's. Sounds like your whole GOP is a bunch of McCain-like RINO's so you better get off your ass and do something about it before it's way too late. Aw screw it, just make posts about it and try to blame someone else. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:00:23 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He and TBK1 are unreal in their blind support for all things NRA. Maybe I have missed conversations, I have seen stuff get animated, he has his positions but I am not convinced he is out to hinder the grassroots movement. But I am a stupid 13'er so take all this with a grain of salt. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:04:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See. Rotten to the core. I doubt you can get 75% of ARF.com NRA members to support you. You even have site staff actively trolling you. The establishment is gonna establishment. We need to go grassroots. Someone getting on the NRA board AND making a change is a longshot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh Well We need to go grassroots. Someone getting on the NRA board AND making a change is a longshot. I want the NRA board members flushed just as much as you do and the NRA to be more proactive in speaking out against legislators that go bad. That is the threat they make to them, that is what gives them the power in the first place, yet they don't do it in cases where clearly someone has failed them. I've been grassroots for 20+ years, not establishment. From the statements all 3 of you make, I can tell none of you have been involved actively working with the NRA and their efforts at the state level. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:04:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TBK1 gave the grassroots thread a highlight. He could have completely ignored my request. While I don't think we agree on all things NRA, I don't think he is that closed minded either. Maybe I have missed conversations, I have seen stuff get animated, he has his positions but I am not convinced he is out to hinder the grassroots movement. But I am a stupid 13'er so take all this with a grain of salt. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:10:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't even read the whole post but you need to quit focusing on the NRA and focus on your state GOP. This shits too easy. Get with the party leader and get her poisoned ass pulled off every committee she's on. VOTE HER OUT OF OFFICE! IT"S YOUR STATE GOP! Not the NRA's. Sounds like your whole GOP is a bunch of McCain-like RINO's so you better get off your ass and do something about it before it's way too late. Aw screw it, just make posts about it and try to blame someone else. Flores is term limited. We have no recall provisions for State elected officials. The Senate President out Flores in the number two slot in the Senate. But this has been a continuing pattern over and over again with FL GOP members. The worst part is that the NRA has given them "A" ratings and endorsed them. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:11:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There we go with that shitty attitude. "Fuck the NRA Benefactor Members, no one needs them anyway." is what I hear you saying. I've helped gather signatures for several people from here that ran for the NRA board. I won't be doing that for you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It is too bad that he has a shitty condescending attitude and seems to speak from a position of ignorance and anger. He will not be getting my support. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:12:13 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TBK1 gave the grassroots thread a highlight. He could have completely ignored my request. While I don't think we agree on all things NRA, I don't think he is that closed minded either. Maybe I have missed conversations, I have seen stuff get animated, he has his positions but I am not convinced he is out to hinder the grassroots movement. But I am a stupid 13'er so take all this with a grain of salt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He and TBK1 are unreal in their blind support for all things NRA. Maybe I have missed conversations, I have seen stuff get animated, he has his positions but I am not convinced he is out to hinder the grassroots movement. But I am a stupid 13'er so take all this with a grain of salt. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:12:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, sure, slick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There is more money for the NRA to be made in fear mongering than winning. 
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:13:56 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your talking points are straight from Marion Hammer. That's why none of us are taking you seriously. They reworded bills that were already in place and you act like they're helping promote new bills and rights in our state. I bet you haven't even read the info provided, and just jump on your NRA is bestest short bus. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For one, Miami_JBT is running for the NRA Board. We just watched Nolo and SuperMoose attempt the same, unsuccessfully. Miami_JBT has a tough road, but it's one that must be paved by the support of NRA voting membership. The best route currently is to grow a significant grassroots alternative to NRA "representation". Florida is simply not represented by the NRA. It's either more of the same failures, or people get behind organizations who will actually "Stand and Fight" as the NRA motto goes. And by the way, the NRA has a history in Florida of intentionally marginalizing grassroots organizations. Let that sink in and ask yourself "Why would they do that?" Why not join forces to assure wins? Thats something only the NRA can speak to. And quite frankly, there's no good answer what so ever. Why would I support someone lying about the NRA, saying the NRA isn't in Florida, and insulting me when I post information that shows what the NRA was actually working on in Florida. Maybe he should read "How to make friends and influence people" because if that is what he is trying to do he is doing it wrong. 71 damned cents a year.
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:14:04 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You seem to be missing the point that his and your attitude/statements are turning off NRA Life members who have previously helped others here. You are right that 75% won't help, it is probably closer to 90% won't help. So you should be doing whatever you can to keep that remaining 10% involved and helping. Yet when I tried to interact with Miami in another thread he got all uppity with me. He, you, and M4 are spreading NRA lies, bashing the NRA constantly, and attacking anyone who doesn't jump on board with you. Then you blame "the establishment". Sorry bud, you will have better luck blaming it on the rain... I want the NRA board members flushed just as much as you do and the NRA to be more proactive in speaking out against legislators that go bad. That is the threat they make to them, that is what gives them the power in the first place, yet they don't do it in cases where clearly someone has failed them. I've been grassroots for 20+ years, not establishment. From the statements all 3 of you make, I can tell none of you have been involved actively working with the NRA and their efforts at the state level. You're more than welcome to point out these lies and post evidence. I'll be waiting. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:15:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just like you insult me and claim everything that has happened is a lie. On June 28, 2016. "A" rated and NRA endorsed Republican Senator Anitere Flores publicly stated that she favors gun control and actually voted for a Special Legislative Session for Gun Control. Then the very next week she sent a letter to Marion Hammer and stated that the 2nd Amendment can't be infringed by government. In FL, the traditional method of endorsement and rating is done byba questionnaire. But Flores skipped that and went with a personal letter addressed specifically to Marion Hammer. The NRA supported her in November 2016. Then when things started happening, I was able to find out straight from Flores' office that she will kill pro gun bills and Marion Hammer stated to the media that if Flores was an issue she'd send out a email alert. Well, Flores killed pro gun bills. Marion Hammer was not proactive in her job. She was reactive and that isn't how you fight for better rights in FL. You have to be proactive and put pressure on them. There is the ideal way politics works and there is reality on how politics works. Then there is the "no compromise" way that people demand it works. The approach that I see you taking is the no compromise way, which is demanding everything and attacking those who don't jump on board. I'm only 41 but have over 20 years of grassroots work at various states working on pro-gun legislation and organizations. The way you want things to work, DOES NOT WORK. The NRA isn't a god. They can't control legislators. They don't decide which legislators run. They don't control party leadership. Yet they have to work closely with all of them to get anything done, just like Trump and the GOPe. Unless a legislator has a D or F rating, the NRA is not going to work to defeat them. Why? Look at fucking John McCain and Lindsay Graham. Those two would vote to pass a new AW ban in a heart beat but they aren't going anywhere. So the NRA has to work with them and will never speak out against them. The same thing happens at the state level. Unless a legislator is in a vulnerable position, the NRA has no leverage with them. If the NRA spoke out against them and they retain their seat, then the NRA just lost a necessary vote for legislation. That is why the NRA generally doesn't endorse people in a primary. The party leadership pushes their people. The party leadership then controls what bills will and won't be brought up. All the NRA can do is apply leverage. That is all a lobby can do. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:16:06 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You seem to be missing the point that his and your attitude/statements are turning off NRA Life members who have previously helped others here. You are right that 75% won't help, it is probably closer to 90% won't help. So you should be doing whatever you can to keep that remaining 10% involved and helping. Yet when I tried to interact with Miami in another thread he got all uppity with me. He, you, and M4 are spreading NRA lies, bashing the NRA constantly, and attacking anyone who doesn't jump on board with you. Then you blame "the establishment". Sorry bud, you will have better luck blaming it on the rain... I want the NRA board members flushed just as much as you do and the NRA to be more proactive in speaking out against legislators that go bad. That is the threat they make to them, that is what gives them the power in the first place, yet they don't do it in cases where clearly someone has failed them. I've been grassroots for 20+ years, not establishment. From the statements all 3 of you make, I can tell none of you have been involved actively working with the NRA and their efforts at the state level. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:16:28 AM EDT
[#38]
The other related problem is that the NRA almsot always supports incumbents even when there are pro gun new choices running . He is GA. the silencer hunting rules are convoluted and failed the first attempt with all republican control.
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:18:30 AM EDT
[#39]
Is Flores still "A" rated?
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:20:10 AM EDT
[#40]
If you have a even half-way viable state grass-root .org like the VCDL here in Virginia you are better off keeping the NRA well at arm's length.
Not only will the NRA work at cross purposes to a state .org but they will try to usurp them and claim credit for any good work/gains that they do make by saying they "recommended" the actions to the Legislature instead of the VCDL. Never mind that the VCDL had done all the work to make possible.. When the VCDL makes pro-2a gains in our Legislature and is signed into law the NRA is always waiting with a carefully worded "alert" making it seem like they did the work the VCDL did. Despite the work the VCDL puts in you would be surprised how many Virginia gun owners never heard of the VCDL. When you tick off their accomplishments peeps will swear up and down the NRA did it because they saw it in a alert.
I trust the NRA on the state level about as far as i can pick-up that blue-ass HQ of theirs and throw it. Bad enough that the grass root .orgs have to fight Dems and RINOs in their respective state house/governor's offices but they have to keep a weather eye open for NRA shenanigans too. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:20:36 AM EDT
[#41]
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There's no hate directed at you, but you have to have seen his pattern of "fuck you for not towing the NRA line" bullshit. I'm not the only one tired of it, and reminds me of the old saying, "If you run into assholes all day..." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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TBK1 gave the grassroots thread a highlight. He could have completely ignored my request. While I don't think we agree on all things NRA, I don't think he is that closed minded either. Maybe I have missed conversations, I have seen stuff get animated, he has his positions but I am not convinced he is out to hinder the grassroots movement. But I am a stupid 13'er so take all this with a grain of salt. Make no mistake, Bloomberg and his ilk are currently doing things like this. I don't know that it explains current issues or not, but gun owners and 2nd Amendment lovers of all types need to pull their heads out of their butts and get with the program. It scares me to death what will happen to the NRA in the next 10 years with deep pockets planting people inside. Hence I been taking up the grassroots cause. Because I don't have or no anybody that has the ability to buy and plant memberships. Gonna have to help true believers come to the rationale. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:20:54 AM EDT
[#42]
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You claim "the NRA did nothing in Florida". That is a lie. That is the only thing that I have called you on. I posted updates from the NRA in Florida and you called it bullshit stating that I had no clue. So you act like you know more than the NRA yet I can tell you have never once met or worked with the NRA at the state level. There is the ideal way politics works and there is reality on how politics works. Then there is the "no compromise" way that people demand it works. The approach that I see you taking is the no compromise way, which is demanding everything and attacking those who don't jump on board. I'm only 41 but have over 20 years of grassroots work at various states working on pro-gun legislation and organizations. The way you want things to work, DOES NOT WORK. The NRA isn't a god. They can't control legislators. They don't decide which legislators run. They don't control party leadership. Yet they have to work closely with all of them to get anything done, just like Trump and the GOPe. Unless a legislator has a D or F rating, the NRA is not going to work to defeat them. Why? Look at fucking John McCain and Lindsay Graham. Those two would vote to pass a new AW ban in a heart beat but they aren't going anywhere. So the NRA has to work with them and will never speak out against them. The same thing happens at the state level. Unless a legislator is in a vulnerable position, the NRA has no leverage with them. If the NRA spoke out against them and they retain their seat, then the NRA just lost a necessary vote for legislation. That is why the NRA generally doesn't endorse people in a primary. The party leadership pushes their people. The party leadership then controls what bills will and won't be brought up. All the NRA can do is apply leverage. That is all a lobby can do. Is there any common ground that can be found here between you and Miami? Seems like both y'all want change but are butting heads over form, more than substance. Same team, in the end. Let's find a way to agree on something constructive and focus on that. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:21:08 AM EDT
[#43]
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Is Flores still "A" rated? |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:21:25 AM EDT
[#44]
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The NRA has many good points. They also have several things that need fixing. To not acknowledge that the NRA has some people on board holding the reigns on occasion keeping it from being all it can be is just delusional. Still the best option at this point, just needs a little help and a little direction. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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With the NRA privately helping them in the background. That is how the NRA works, through state level groups. I was heavily involved in Michigan's fight to get shall issue CCW years ago. The NRA was constantly there, providing funding, sending out mailers, talking to legislators...etc. Do you know whose name was used to get all the information out, MCRGO the state level group that I belonged to and was helping. The NRA was directing most of their efforts through that organization so that there would be a state level grass roots face when it came to the media. Unless you are on the board or executive committee of the state level group you will never know what the NRA is doing and letting the state level organizations credit for. MCRGO was given credit for getting shall issue CCW passed, yet it never would have happened without the NRA bringing in their people and helping us. Still the best option at this point, just needs a little help and a little direction. I'm all in favor of flushing the board. It won't happen though with a big flush though, just slowly over time. Back 20 years ago it was pretty much an establishment only club and if you weren't in that group it was nearly impossible to get on the ballot and if you did they wouldn't put you on the approved list of people to vote for. Now with the bylaw change it just got much harder. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:24:30 AM EDT
[#45]
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Really...christ we are fuked by our own kind...I quit the NRA..years ago. Everyday I got huge flyers in the mail saying, in blood red letters..GUN CONFISCATION ONLY DAYS AWAY, SEND MORE MONEY. You know what really pissed me off more, when I was a member of the IAFF and every week they sent me shit telling me I was a sucky firefighter if I did not vote for Obama. I could not stop that spam, they sent it anyway. So I told them to stick it up their ass! I no longer pay them to support Obama and they can suck it. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:25:51 AM EDT
[#46]
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You seem to be missing the point that his and your attitude/statements are turning off NRA Life members who have previously helped others here. You are right that 75% won't help, it is probably closer to 90% won't help. So you should be doing whatever you can to keep that remaining 10% involved and helping. Yet when I tried to interact with Miami in another thread he got all uppity with me. He, you, and M4 are spreading NRA lies, bashing the NRA constantly, and attacking anyone who doesn't jump on board with you. Then you blame "the establishment". Sorry bud, you will have better luck blaming it on the rain... I want the NRA board members flushed just as much as you do and the NRA to be more proactive in speaking out against legislators that go bad. That is the threat they make to them, that is what gives them the power in the first place, yet they don't do it in cases where clearly someone has failed them. I've been grassroots for 20+ years, not establishment. From the statements all 3 of you make, I can tell none of you have been involved actively working with the NRA and their efforts at the state level. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh Well We need to go grassroots. Someone getting on the NRA board AND making a change is a longshot. I want the NRA board members flushed just as much as you do and the NRA to be more proactive in speaking out against legislators that go bad. That is the threat they make to them, that is what gives them the power in the first place, yet they don't do it in cases where clearly someone has failed them. I've been grassroots for 20+ years, not establishment. From the statements all 3 of you make, I can tell none of you have been involved actively working with the NRA and their efforts at the state level. When I started this year's back I was polite, kind, respectful, and thanked her. But I have never been returned any of it. I reached out to our very own NRA rep here on Arfcom. I first approached him to get support for a State Level org and he said the NRA would back me and support it. Then out of the blue. Poof.... He drops off the face of the earth. Back in November and December it was all "NRA will contact you and support you." Then nothing but crickets. I know he's busy with his personal life. I know we all have shit to deal with. But our own NRA Board Member and Arfcom rep first stated he'd support me and then nothing. Don't know if Marion told him that FL is her backyard and that she will not support it. I have no clue. But I have spoken to numerous NRA reps across the country and they have told me that Marion runs it as a petty fiefdom and will not allow any other group or person to do anything. She won't even release the membership numbers of the NRA and USF in FL. Folks like Adam Kraut and Stephen Stamboulieh received no support at all from the NRA in their legal challenges and fights for the 2nd Amendment. The NRA actively fought them. Up to the final minute at NRAAM. Both of them are far better folk than I am. I'm just a cop. They're hard charging lawyers that fight and win 2nd Amendment cases. And the NRA fought them. What does that say? |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:27:35 AM EDT
[#47]
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Didn't even read the whole post but you need to quit focusing on the NRA and focus on your state GOP. This shits too easy. Get with the party leader and get her poisoned ass pulled off every committee she's on. VOTE HER OUT OF OFFICE! IT"S YOUR STATE GOP! Not the NRA's. Sounds like your whole GOP is a bunch of McCain-like RINO's so you better get off your ass and do something about it before it's way too late. Aw screw it, just make posts about it and try to blame someone else. Last year it was committee head Diaz de la Portilla who played the role of spoiler. Before that, many here in Florida believe it was Marion Hammer herself, who played the role of spoiler for open carry. Next year it will be someone else who shields our Republican supermajority from having to vote publicly on important and necessary pro gun legislation. And the usual suspects will send out congratulatory e-mails minimizing the fact that substantive gun rights billed failed to become enacted, while taking a deep bow and a victory lap for themselves. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:34:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You claim "the NRA did nothing in Florida". That is a lie. That is the only thing that I have called you on. I posted updates from the NRA in Florida and you called it bullshit stating that I had no clue. So you act like you know more than the NRA yet I can tell you have never once met or worked with the NRA at the state level. There is the ideal way politics works and there is reality on how politics works. Then there is the "no compromise" way that people demand it works. The approach that I see you taking is the no compromise way, which is demanding everything and attacking those who don't jump on board. I'm only 41 but have over 20 years of grassroots work at various states working on pro-gun legislation and organizations. The way you want things to work, DOES NOT WORK. The NRA isn't a god. They can't control legislators. They don't decide which legislators run. They don't control party leadership. Yet they have to work closely with all of them to get anything done, just like Trump and the GOPe. Unless a legislator has a D or F rating, the NRA is not going to work to defeat them. Why? Look at fucking John McCain and Lindsay Graham. Those two would vote to pass a new AW ban in a heart beat but they aren't going anywhere. So the NRA has to work with them and will never speak out against them. The same thing happens at the state level. Unless a legislator is in a vulnerable position, the NRA has no leverage with them. If the NRA spoke out against them and they retain their seat, then the NRA just lost a necessary vote for legislation. That is why the NRA generally doesn't endorse people in a primary. The party leadership pushes their people. The party leadership then controls what bills will and won't be brought up. All the NRA can do is apply leverage. That is all a lobby can do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just like you insult me and claim everything that has happened is a lie. On June 28, 2016. "A" rated and NRA endorsed Republican Senator Anitere Flores publicly stated that she favors gun control and actually voted for a Special Legislative Session for Gun Control. Then the very next week she sent a letter to Marion Hammer and stated that the 2nd Amendment can't be infringed by government. In FL, the traditional method of endorsement and rating is done byba questionnaire. But Flores skipped that and went with a personal letter addressed specifically to Marion Hammer. The NRA supported her in November 2016. Then when things started happening, I was able to find out straight from Flores' office that she will kill pro gun bills and Marion Hammer stated to the media that if Flores was an issue she'd send out a email alert. Well, Flores killed pro gun bills. Marion Hammer was not proactive in her job. She was reactive and that isn't how you fight for better rights in FL. You have to be proactive and put pressure on them. There is the ideal way politics works and there is reality on how politics works. Then there is the "no compromise" way that people demand it works. The approach that I see you taking is the no compromise way, which is demanding everything and attacking those who don't jump on board. I'm only 41 but have over 20 years of grassroots work at various states working on pro-gun legislation and organizations. The way you want things to work, DOES NOT WORK. The NRA isn't a god. They can't control legislators. They don't decide which legislators run. They don't control party leadership. Yet they have to work closely with all of them to get anything done, just like Trump and the GOPe. Unless a legislator has a D or F rating, the NRA is not going to work to defeat them. Why? Look at fucking John McCain and Lindsay Graham. Those two would vote to pass a new AW ban in a heart beat but they aren't going anywhere. So the NRA has to work with them and will never speak out against them. The same thing happens at the state level. Unless a legislator is in a vulnerable position, the NRA has no leverage with them. If the NRA spoke out against them and they retain their seat, then the NRA just lost a necessary vote for legislation. That is why the NRA generally doesn't endorse people in a primary. The party leadership pushes their people. The party leadership then controls what bills will and won't be brought up. All the NRA can do is apply leverage. That is all a lobby can do. Did the compromise of 2011 get us Open Carry in 2012? Nope, it instead got a law abiding citizen arrested for a wardrobe malfunction. Did the Compromise of 2015 and 2016 get us Campus Carry? Nope. What about 2017? Why did the Speaker of the House at the last minute kill a pro gun bill that would apply to everyone and instead push a bill that would only apply to cops? 
I'm tired of compromise. My family was killed because of compromise in Cuba. Some thought they could compromise with Castro. They're now dead. Texans didn't compromise for Open Carry. They fought hard for it. Compromise doesn't give us anything. Prior to 1977 and Neal Knox, the NRA compromised. I DON'T COMPROMISE WHEN IT COMES TO MY FREEDOMS. Compromise means both sides get something. Yet in FL we haven't gotten shit. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:35:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is Flores still "A" rated? |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 10:36:45 AM EDT
[#50]
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I've acknowledged what you said previously. The NRA isn't perfect. I don't know anyone who thinks that. At the same time they are still the largest and most powerfully pro-gun lobby and one of the most powerful national lobbies despite their small membership numbers and money spent compared all. So despite all their flaws, the NRA is still doing a really good job given their limited resources. I'm all in favor of flushing the board. It won't happen though with a big flush though, just slowly over time. Back 20 years ago it was pretty much an establishment only club and if you weren't in that group it was nearly impossible to get on the ballot and if you did they wouldn't put you on the approved list of people to vote for. Now with the bylaw change it just got much harder. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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With the NRA privately helping them in the background. That is how the NRA works, through state level groups. I was heavily involved in Michigan's fight to get shall issue CCW years ago. The NRA was constantly there, providing funding, sending out mailers, talking to legislators...etc. Do you know whose name was used to get all the information out, MCRGO the state level group that I belonged to and was helping. The NRA was directing most of their efforts through that organization so that there would be a state level grass roots face when it came to the media. Unless you are on the board or executive committee of the state level group you will never know what the NRA is doing and letting the state level organizations credit for. MCRGO was given credit for getting shall issue CCW passed, yet it never would have happened without the NRA bringing in their people and helping us. Still the best option at this point, just needs a little help and a little direction. I'm all in favor of flushing the board. It won't happen though with a big flush though, just slowly over time. Back 20 years ago it was pretty much an establishment only club and if you weren't in that group it was nearly impossible to get on the ballot and if you did they wouldn't put you on the approved list of people to vote for. Now with the bylaw change it just got much harder. I am not sure the root of it. But getting back to Bloomberg, it scares me that he is buying influence by buying memberships and planting people inside. You should understand, when I read your rhetoric I see it just as harshly as you see Miami_JBT's rhetoric. Yet like Atlas said we got plenty of common ground here it seems. I encourage you to step back for a moment and just analyze this situation. Also know that WE have a pretty good chance of getting a board member or two next year. Adam and Stephen laid down a pretty good foundation. This grassroots thing is gonna blow up and get big. Not being sarcastic at all, have you given thought to running for the board? You seem very passionate about it. So am I. But I recognize my limitations, in no way would I be ready to run for the board. I am not there yet. I don't know your situation, but if you aren't running for the board PLEASE reconsider Miami_JBT's platform. PLEASE look at his desire for the 2nd Amendment to be protected and extended back to it's rightful state. This is bigger than a few inflammatory words. I am not telling you what to do, I am civilly asking you to take an objective look at what hard charging people do and say. Miami_JBT would be an asset to the board. Consider these thought in a clearer more relaxed state. Thank you |
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