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Posted: 7/23/2014 6:20:46 PM EDT
[#1]
I wish we had a CIC that would back them
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Posted: 7/23/2014 6:22:37 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 7/23/2014 6:38:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THIS could get interesting... The Dutch and Australian governments are exploring a plan to send an armed multinational protection force to a pro-separatist enclave in eastern Ukraine to secure the site... NATO military in East Ukraine? No doubt the drunken, pig-like, Russian thugs will exercise discipline. As much as I'd like to see it,it won't happen for a multitude of reasons. You know what the spin in Russia would be anyway: NATO occupies Novorossiya,plants evidence to frame innocent Russian people |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 6:43:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish we had a CIC that would back them Didn't 0 tell Putin that after the 2012 elections, he could be more flexible. Well, we are seeing his flexibility. He is being over backwards quite nicely. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 6:43:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only options are fighter, bomber, or other. Especially before much was known about it a fighter code name seems most correct. ETA: I too mourn for our allies. The Dutch are always great hosts to a bunch of deployed yanks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not only that, a SU-25 even though NATO classes it as an "air to air fighter," as noted by the frogfoot monkier, there are numerous other tools that would make better air to air engagments. It would be like us using the A-10 as an air to air fighter. The only options are fighter, bomber, or other. Especially before much was known about it a fighter code name seems most correct. ETA: I too mourn for our allies. The Dutch are always great hosts to a bunch of deployed yanks. This they have fed my hungry ass many times. I have never met a Dutchman that wasn't friendly. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 6:56:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As much as I'd like to see it,it won't happen for a multitude of reasons. You know what the spin in Russia would be anyway: NATO occupies Novorossiya,plants evidence to frame innocent Russian people Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
THIS could get interesting... The Dutch and Australian governments are exploring a plan to send an armed multinational protection force to a pro-separatist enclave in eastern Ukraine to secure the site... NATO military in East Ukraine? No doubt the drunken, pig-like, Russian thugs will exercise discipline. As much as I'd like to see it,it won't happen for a multitude of reasons. You know what the spin in Russia would be anyway: NATO occupies Novorossiya,plants evidence to frame innocent Russian people I'm fine with that. Russians lie, the sky is blue, etc. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 7:07:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm fine with that. Russians lie, the sky is blue, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
THIS could get interesting... The Dutch and Australian governments are exploring a plan to send an armed multinational protection force to a pro-separatist enclave in eastern Ukraine to secure the site... NATO military in East Ukraine? No doubt the drunken, pig-like, Russian thugs will exercise discipline. As much as I'd like to see it,it won't happen for a multitude of reasons. You know what the spin in Russia would be anyway: NATO occupies Novorossiya,plants evidence to frame innocent Russian people I'm fine with that. Russians lie, the sky is blue, etc. It's says in the article that Russia would have to approve the action of the Dutch and Aussies. Lol.....right. I can see the Russians allowing it if their troops can go in as well. Then, of course, they will never leave.....they can officially be in the country as peace keepers at that point. It would back fire. Either tell the Russians to f themselves or sit down. There is no in- between. The EU and NATO are essentially Russian allies with the policy derp they are having to jump through. Eta: Giving Russia any type of decision making power in these international groups is like making a sex offender do his community service at a pre-school. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 7:12:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's says in the article that Russia would have to approve the action of the Dutch and Aussies. Lol.....right. I can see the Russians allowing it if their troops can go in as well. Then, of course, they will never leave.....they can officially be in the country as peace keepers at that point. It would back fire. Either tell the Russians to f themselves or sit down. There is no in- between. The EU and NATO are essentially Russian allies with the policy derp they are having to jump through. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's says in the article that Russia would have to approve the action of the Dutch and Aussies. Lol.....right. I can see the Russians allowing it if their troops can go in as well. Then, of course, they will never leave.....they can officially be in the country as peace keepers at that point. It would back fire. Either tell the Russians to f themselves or sit down. There is no in- between. The EU and NATO are essentially Russian allies with the policy derp they are having to jump through. We'll see. I don't think they're asking permission... http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/australia-ukraine-victims-found-24673671 Australia's foreign minister said Thursday that her country stood ready to provide whatever resources were needed to secure the Malaysian airliner's crash site in Ukraine, as newspapers reported Australian troops and police could soon be sent. Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said she was traveling with her Dutch counterpart Frans Timmermans to meet with Ukraine leaders in Kyiv to discuss securing the crash site in rebel-held east Ukraine. She said securing the crash site was the next priority for Australia after repatriating the 37 Australian citizens and residents aboard the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 which was shot down by a suspected surface-to-air missile last week, with the loss of 298 lives. "We stand ready to provide whatever support or resources are needed," Bishop said in a statement. Prime Minister Tony Abbott said on Wednesday he was discussing with government leaders options for securing the 50-square kilometer (20-square mile) crash site, including his preferred option of a multinational security force mounted by countries such as Australia, Netherlands and Malaysia that lost citizens in the disaster. Sydney's The Daily Telegraph newspaper reported that the option likely to be presented to Abbott on Thursday would involve an Australian Federal Police-led taskforce protected by Australian troops which would join a likely Dutch-led multinational security force. Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte had already asked Abbott if Australia would participate in a Dutch-led task force, the newspaper reported. A national newspaper, The Australian, reported up to 100 Australian police and troops could be sent to Ukraine under a range of options being considered by the government. Neither newspaper cited sources, but are regularly provided with anonymous but accurate information by the government. Abbott's office did not immediately respond on Thursday to a request for comment on the reports. He warned on Wednesday that remains of some victims might never be recovered unless there is a secure and thorough search of the crash site. Bishop presented an Australia-sponsored resolution to the U.N. Security Council that passed unanimously on Monday demanding that rebels who hold the crash site cooperate with an independent investigation and allow victims' remains to be recovered. And... UP to 100 Australian Federal Police officers and military personnel could be sent to help secure the MH17 crash site in Ukraine, under one of a range of options the Abbott government is considering to bring home the bodies of Australian citizens and residents killed in the disaster. As Tony Abbott spoke of his deep concern that some of the victims might never be found unless urgent action was taken, he revealed he had instructed military and civil agencies to look at options to protect the crash site as scores of bodies remained missing. The Australian has been told possible steps under consideration include sending a contingent from the AFP’s International Deployment Group that could form part of an international force. The Prime Minister stressed yesterday that a wide range of contingency plans was being considered but declined to give details. It is understood that decisions still to be made include whether a force would be armed or unarmed and whether it would include military personnel and support to protect it in a war zone. Foreign Minister Julie Bishop heads today to the Ukraine for talks with Kiev about how to safeguard the crash site and locate bodies that may still be missing. She said the Prime Minister had had discussions with Ukrainian leaders and she would be travelling to Kiev to “build on those discussions of Mr Abbott’’ with Ukraine president Petro Poreshenko. “We will discuss how we can logistically secure the site and the work that must be undertaken. This is painstaking, long, difficult work but we will not rest until we have accounted for everybody, every Australian aboard that flight,’’ Ms Bishop said. “We are looking at the most effective way of securing that site.’’ Ms Bishop’s mission comes after it emerged that Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte had invited Australia to be part of a peacekeeping force in eastern Ukraine. Ukrainian officials said Mr Rutte had told Mr Poroshenko of the country’s options in a telephone call last night. Ms Bishop said she would travel to Kiev with her Dutch counterpart Frans Timmermans and would be joined by the PM’s envoy Angus Houston, who is in Ukraine. Mr Abbott said he was talking to the nation’s “partners in grief’’ about ways to ensure full and unrestricted access to the crash site and surrounding areas, as agreed under the UN Security Council resolution. His special envoy, Air Chief Marshal Houston, had told him that an international investigation of the full crash site, covering about 50sq km, was vital because it could uncover more human remains, personal effects or wreckage. Such a search could be carried out only if the site were secure. As the black box recorder from Flight MH17 arrived in London last night for analysis, Mr Abbott said it was possible many bodies were still undiscovered and exposed to the heat of the European summer but he vowed to do everything possible to recover them. “We will bring all of them home,’’ he said. “We must bring all of them home and my fear is that unless we do more, unless we prepare for further possible measures, some of them will never come home and that would be completely unacceptable for bereaved families in Australia and right around the world.’’ Late last night, pro-Russian rebels claimed to have shot down two Ukrainian fighter jets not far from the crash site, although the Ukraine military said the missiles were fired from inside Russian territory. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 7:16:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hard to think this will be going on until Friday http://images0.tcdn.nl/incoming/article22889332.ece/BINARY/q/1.JPG http://www.nrc.nl/inbeeld/files/2014/07/inbeeldcolonnebloemen-980x622.jpg 
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Posted: 7/23/2014 7:17:17 PM EDT
[#10]
What kind of gear is it legal to send to pro Ukrainians I want to help kill some Russian scum after this vodka fueled fuckup.
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Posted: 7/23/2014 7:19:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As much as I'd like to see it,it won't happen for a multitude of reasons. You know what the spin in Russia would be anyway: NATO occupies Novorossiya,plants evidence to frame innocent Russian people Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: THIS could get interesting... The Dutch and Australian governments are exploring a plan to send an armed multinational protection force to a pro-separatist enclave in eastern Ukraine to secure the site... NATO military in East Ukraine? No doubt the drunken, pig-like, Russian thugs will exercise discipline. As much as I'd like to see it,it won't happen for a multitude of reasons. You know what the spin in Russia would be anyway: NATO occupies Novorossiya,plants evidence to frame innocent Russian people They're doing that already.
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Posted: 7/23/2014 7:51:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Gentlemen, do remember this…
If we get involved, the price on 5.56 is gonna shit a pony. Again.
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Posted: 7/23/2014 8:03:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of gear is it legal to send to pro Ukrainians I want to help kill some Russian scum after this vodka fueled fuckup. I think medical supplies are your best bet - Ukrainian army is working off 40 year old Soviet stocks on that, as with other stuff. These guys are coordinating buying Celox / CAT tourniquets etc and sending it to Ukrainian Army. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 8:07:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gentlemen, do remember this… If we get involved, the price on 5.56 is gonna shit a pony. Again. Woo 300Blk! |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 8:09:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Woo 300Blk! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gentlemen, do remember this… If we get involved, the price on 5.56 is gonna shit a pony. Again. Woo 300Blk! And that is what we are worried about?
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Posted: 7/23/2014 8:13:59 PM EDT
[#16]
To be honest, the site has been contaminated beyond all forensic hope by those Russian motherfuckers. Unless bodies still need recovering, there is little advantage to actually securing the site.
However, if this provides an opportunity to employ punitive military action against the Russian spies in Ukraine, I'm all for it. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 8:27:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be honest, the site has been contaminated beyond all forensic hope by those Russian motherfuckers. Unless bodies still need recovering, there is little advantage to actually securing the site. However, if this provides an opportunity to employ punitive military action against the Russian spies in Ukraine, I'm all for it. The Dutch and the Aussies want their people back. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 8:28:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Dutch and the Aussies want their people back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To be honest, the site has been contaminated beyond all forensic hope by those Russian motherfuckers. Unless bodies still need recovering, there is little advantage to actually securing the site. However, if this provides an opportunity to employ punitive military action against the Russian spies in Ukraine, I'm all for it. The Dutch and the Aussies want their people back.
RIP |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 8:53:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be honest, the site has been contaminated beyond all forensic hope by those Russian motherfuckers. Unless bodies still need recovering, there is little advantage to actually securing the site. How do you know that. I saw pictures of fuselage metal that in my limited assessment look like shrapnel hitting it from the outside. There were fuselage station numbers on the ribs so they would know exactly where the plane was hit in that case. The smoking gun is probably still there along with all other intel/data. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 9:06:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you know that. I saw pictures of fuselage metal that in my limited assessment look like shrapnel hitting it from the outside. There were fuselage station numbers on the ribs so they would know exactly where the plane was hit in that case. The smoking gun is probably still there along with all other intel/data. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To be honest, the site has been contaminated beyond all forensic hope by those Russian motherfuckers. Unless bodies still need recovering, there is little advantage to actually securing the site. How do you know that. I saw pictures of fuselage metal that in my limited assessment look like shrapnel hitting it from the outside. There were fuselage station numbers on the ribs so they would know exactly where the plane was hit in that case. The smoking gun is probably still there along with all other intel/data. Because the Russians have been loading every scrap of the plane into dump trucks and hauling it off to parts unknown? And we know a missile hit it already... It honestly just isn't going to tell us much. I'm MUCH more interested in the SIGINT related to the shoot down. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 9:08:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Dutch and the Aussies want their people back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To be honest, the site has been contaminated beyond all forensic hope by those Russian motherfuckers. Unless bodies still need recovering, there is little advantage to actually securing the site. However, if this provides an opportunity to employ punitive military action against the Russian spies in Ukraine, I'm all for it. The Dutch and the Aussies want their people back. Understandable and I fully support any measure they make to recover their people. However, from the limited information available, it appears the bodies have been removed from the crash site. Again, by those Russian motherfuckers. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 10:59:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gentlemen, do remember this… If we get involved, the price on 5.56 is gonna shit a pony. Again. Which is nothing but needless gouging since the supply the Military gets isnt the same as domestic production 55 grain, or M885 or M1893 |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 11:14:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which is nothing but needless gouging since the supply the Military gets isnt the same as domestic production 55 grain, or M885 or M1893 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gentlemen, do remember this… If we get involved, the price on 5.56 is gonna shit a pony. Again. Which is nothing but needless gouging since the supply the Military gets isnt the same as domestic production 55 grain, or M885 or M1893 The 55 grain I buy comes off the same machines as the 62 grain the .mil gets, and uses the same brass. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 11:55:14 PM EDT
[#24]
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/07/24/16/21/prime-minister-mh17
Prime Minister Tony Abbott has announced Australia has sent a team of 50 police officers to help secure the disaster site of MH17. It follows growing international concern about the safety and security of the crash site in eastern Ukraine, which is close to an area of intense fighting. "The Australian Government has pre deployed 50 Australian police to London. We are ready to deploy Australian police to Ukraine to help secure the site as part of an international team under United Nations authority," Mr Abbott said. "The task of this international police team will be to ensure a full and thorough search does take place so that all remains are recovered and sent to The Netherlands. Only this way can the victims' families achieve the closure they so need and deserve at this difficult time," Mr Abbott said. "I accept there is potential for difficulty, but President Putin has said all the right things," he added. "On the site it is still clear nothing is happening without the help of the armed rebels who most likely brought the plane down in the first place. There still has been nothing like a thorough professional search in the area where the plane came down and there can't be while the site is controlled by armed men." When asked if the Australian police team would be accompanied by military personnel in Ukraine, Mr Abbott replied: "These are the details we are still working on." |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 11:56:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/07/24/16/21/prime-minister-mh17 Prime Minister Tony Abbott has announced Australia has sent a team of 50 police officers to help secure the disaster site of MH17. It follows growing international concern about the safety and security of the crash site in eastern Ukraine, which is close to an area of intense fighting. "The Australian Government has pre deployed 50 Australian police to London. We are ready to deploy Australian police to Ukraine to help secure the site as part of an international team under United Nations authority," Mr Abbott said. "The task of this international police team will be to ensure a full and thorough search does take place so that all remains are recovered and sent to The Netherlands. Only this way can the victims' families achieve the closure they so need and deserve at this difficult time," Mr Abbott said. "I accept there is potential for difficulty, but President Putin has said all the right things," he added. "On the site it is still clear nothing is happening without the help of the armed rebels who most likely brought the plane down in the first place. There still has been nothing like a thorough professional search in the area where the plane came down and there can't be while the site is controlled by armed men." When asked if the Australian police team would be accompanied by military personnel in Ukraine, Mr Abbott replied: "These are the details we are still working on." Wouldent Military be more appropriate than street cops in a war zone? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 12:03:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wouldent Military be more appropriate than street cops in a war zone? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/07/24/16/21/prime-minister-mh17 Prime Minister Tony Abbott has announced Australia has sent a team of 50 police officers to help secure the disaster site of MH17. It follows growing international concern about the safety and security of the crash site in eastern Ukraine, which is close to an area of intense fighting. "The Australian Government has pre deployed 50 Australian police to London. We are ready to deploy Australian police to Ukraine to help secure the site as part of an international team under United Nations authority," Mr Abbott said. "The task of this international police team will be to ensure a full and thorough search does take place so that all remains are recovered and sent to The Netherlands. Only this way can the victims' families achieve the closure they so need and deserve at this difficult time," Mr Abbott said. "I accept there is potential for difficulty, but President Putin has said all the right things," he added. "On the site it is still clear nothing is happening without the help of the armed rebels who most likely brought the plane down in the first place. There still has been nothing like a thorough professional search in the area where the plane came down and there can't be while the site is controlled by armed men." When asked if the Australian police team would be accompanied by military personnel in Ukraine, Mr Abbott replied: "These are the details we are still working on." Wouldent Military be more appropriate than street cops in a war zone? Cops sound less confrontational. Other than that... Probably not the best of plans on its face. I'm all for them sending folks. I just hope they don't send the wrong folks and lose more people. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 12:55:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Dutch and the Aussies want their people back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To be honest, the site has been contaminated beyond all forensic hope by those Russian motherfuckers. Unless bodies still need recovering, there is little advantage to actually securing the site. However, if this provides an opportunity to employ punitive military action against the Russian spies in Ukraine, I'm all for it. The Dutch and the Aussies want their people back. I hope they're willing to go the distance against these scum. Those people deserve to go home. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 1:54:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Are the Dutch still in Afghanistan?
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:43:26 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
RIP Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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To be honest, the site has been contaminated beyond all forensic hope by those Russian motherfuckers. Unless bodies still need recovering, there is little advantage to actually securing the site. However, if this provides an opportunity to employ punitive military action against the Russian spies in Ukraine, I'm all for it. The Dutch and the Aussies want their people back.
RIP That's the point. You can't RIP when you have drunken Russian carting around your corpse, and messing with it. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:49:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are the Dutch still in Afghanistan? Yes as far as I know we provided a couple of F-16's and have some staff to support ground forces there until at leas last month. For the rest we do training locals a far as I know |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:33:42 AM EDT
[#31]
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Are the Dutch still in Afghanistan? The bulk of them live in the Netherlands. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:31:12 AM EDT
[#32]
Has this officially died arfcom? Sad.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:35:47 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bulk of them live in the Netherlands. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Are the Dutch still in Afghanistan? The bulk of them live in the Netherlands. 
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:41:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Not a lot of new news.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:53:08 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a lot of new news. S'pose this is true. I was just hoping this wouldn't fizzle out. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:56:57 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
S'pose this is true. I was just hoping this wouldn't fizzle out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not a lot of new news. S'pose this is true. I was just hoping this wouldn't fizzle out. This is far from over. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 11:34:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Shepard Smith just said the Pentagon confirmed it was Russia that shot the plane down.
EDIT: I think he meant it was Russians firing artillery in to Ukraine. TRG |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 11:36:57 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Are the Dutch still in Afghanistan? The bulk of them live in the Netherlands. Yes, well played. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 11:49:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shepard Smith just said the Pentagon confirmed it was Russia that shot the plane down. EDIT: I think he meant it was Russians firing artillery in to Ukraine. TRG Since it's somewhat related. This was just mentioned in another thread. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/24/russian-artillery-fired-eastern-ukraine/13108615/?siteID=je6NUbpObpQ-rioVLIp.nd_uje1ammqh3A |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 2:58:27 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since it's somewhat related. This was just mentioned in another thread. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/24/russian-artillery-fired-eastern-ukraine/13108615/?siteID=je6NUbpObpQ-rioVLIp.nd_uje1ammqh3A Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Shepard Smith just said the Pentagon confirmed it was Russia that shot the plane down. EDIT: I think he meant it was Russians firing artillery in to Ukraine. TRG Since it's somewhat related. This was just mentioned in another thread. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/24/russian-artillery-fired-eastern-ukraine/13108615/?siteID=je6NUbpObpQ-rioVLIp.nd_uje1ammqh3A Looks like Russians are trying to escalate into Ukraine. Once Russians engage the Ukrainians formally there will be no foreign force in ukrain directly challenging Russian troops. I'm surprised they haven't already. Book NO foreign troops ever getting into Ukraine, period. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:06:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is far from over. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not a lot of new news. S'pose this is true. I was just hoping this wouldn't fizzle out. This is far from over. Yep, and if you want the broader picture, follow this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1597203_BREAKING__Putin_orders_150_000_troops_in_western_Russia_on_alert_Drill.html |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:10:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Russia’s accusations - setting the record straight (updated July 2014) (official nato release)
Russian claims that the Ukrainian authorities are illegitimate Russian claims that NATO’s response is escalatory Russian claims that the so-called referendum in Crimea was legal Russian claim NATO’s continuation and enlargement threatens Russia On the claim that NATO wants to ‘drag’ Ukraine into NATO Claim that Russia had to act to stop NATO from basing missiles and ships in Sevastopol. Russian claims that NATO promised not to enlarge or build infrastructure in Eastern Europe Russian claims that NATO Missile Defence is a threat to Russia Russian claims that the U.S. is disinterested in Europe and that the Alliance is not united Russian criticism of the legitimacy of NATO military actions – Kosovo Russian claims that the annexation of Crimea was justified by the opinion of the International Court of Justice on the independence of Kosovo Russian criticism of the legitimacy of NATO military actions – Libya http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_111767.htm?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=smc&utm_campaign=140723+myth+kosovo&utm_term=fact+sheet |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:23:26 PM EDT
[#43]
they are sure going all out on this
would be nice if they just would focus on the issue at hand and let people do what they need to do at the crash site. Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Russia’s accusations - setting the record straight (updated July 2014) (official nato release)
Russian claims that the Ukrainian authorities are illegitimate Russian claims that NATO’s response is escalatory Russian claims that the so-called referendum in Crimea was legal Russian claim NATO’s continuation and enlargement threatens Russia On the claim that NATO wants to ‘drag’ Ukraine into NATO Claim that Russia had to act to stop NATO from basing missiles and ships in Sevastopol. Russian claims that NATO promised not to enlarge or build infrastructure in Eastern Europe Russian claims that NATO Missile Defence is a threat to Russia Russian claims that the U.S. is disinterested in Europe and that the Alliance is not united Russian criticism of the legitimacy of NATO military actions – Kosovo Russian claims that the annexation of Crimea was justified by the opinion of the International Court of Justice on the independence of Kosovo Russian criticism of the legitimacy of NATO military actions – Libya http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_111767.htm?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=smc&utm_campaign=140723+myth+kosovo&utm_term=fact+sheet |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:26:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't 0 tell Putin that after the 2012 elections, he could be more flexible. Well, we are seeing his flexibility. He is being over backwards quite nicely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wish we had a CIC that would back them Didn't 0 tell Putin that after the 2012 elections, he could be more flexible. Well, we are seeing his flexibility. He is being over backwards quite nicely. It's easy to do when you don't have a backbone. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 5:53:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This they have fed my hungry ass many times. I have never met a Dutchman that wasn't friendly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not only that, a SU-25 even though NATO classes it as an "air to air fighter," as noted by the frogfoot monkier, there are numerous other tools that would make better air to air engagments. It would be like us using the A-10 as an air to air fighter. The only options are fighter, bomber, or other. Especially before much was known about it a fighter code name seems most correct. ETA: I too mourn for our allies. The Dutch are always great hosts to a bunch of deployed yanks. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:12:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Our media reporting that "Russian seperatists", wearing Russian Army uniforms, are providing security for the investigators. Putin probably told some of his troops to "look after" the investigators as well as keeping the cossacks out of the way. Our PM just said that possible armed Australian Federal Police will be sent there, and negotiations are under way. Sadly, more remains and wreckage have been found, and they have been sitting exposed for many days so are in poor condition  |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:17:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they are sure going all out on this would be nice if they just would focus on the issue at hand and let people do what they need to do at the crash site. Quote HistoryQuoted:
they are sure going all out on this would be nice if they just would focus on the issue at hand and let people do what they need to do at the crash site. Top posting makes my head hurt. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:23:36 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't 0 tell Putin that after the 2012 elections, he could be more flexible. Well, we are seeing his flexibility. He is being over backwards quite nicely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I wish we had a CIC that would back them Didn't 0 tell Putin that after the 2012 elections, he could be more flexible. Well, we are seeing his flexibility. He is being over backwards quite nicely. Zero is on Poo's side, they are both closet Marxists. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:49:08 PM EDT
[#49]
This is uncorroborated yet, but if true... that might be a game changer.
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/mh17/22895425/__Inzet_commando_s__.html Dutch commandos getting ready for Ukraine SCHAARSBERGEN - Defense sends this weekend troops to eastern Ukraine, so that 23 Dutch researchers and 40 unarmed military police at the crash site of flight MH17 can safely do their work. All leaves of 11 Airmobile Brigade barracks in Schaarsbergen and passes are canceled. Also, special forces of the Commando Corps (KCT) from Minusma mission in Gao, Mali, retrieved and transferred to the vicinity of Donetsk. The "green units" will be charged. With KDC-10 and C-130 Hercules aircraft from Eindhoven airbase to the deployment area Even Australia, which hammered already been on much tougher international action in eastern Ukraine, taking part in the protection of researchers. Yesterday it became clear that the country's first squadron of the Special Air Service Regiment (SASR) had flown over to Europe. The elite soldiers will fly to Ukraine from Hereford in England, home of the British SAS. Seriously, if our Fearless Leader had any decency, we would be there backing up our allies. When 3000 of our civilians were killed by terrorists, our NATO allies stepped up. When ~300 of them were killed by terrorists...we do press briefings with Facebook posts. And now, they are going in harms way- and we're leading from behind. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 11:03:25 PM EDT
[#50]
OK, moving to "Semi-confirmed":
The federal government is close to finalising an agreement with the Ukrainian government, to deploy federal police officers to the MH17 crash site. Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the deployment would include Australian Defence Force personnel alongside AFP officers. Some of the police officers may be armed and a further 100 are set to travel to Europe to join 90 who have already arrived in Europe. The prime minister made the announcement during a press conference at the AFP's national headquarters in Canberra. Mr Abbott stressed any deployment of Australian police officers and ADF personnel would come under a Dutch-led investigation. The announcement comes as more human remains were found and wreckage uncovered during a visit of three Australian officials to the MH17 crash site. 'Previously undiscovered wreckage has been found and I regret to say more human remains have been found and we expect that further remains will be found in the days ahead,' Mr Abbott said. He said this made it more important than ever to properly secure the site. http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/07/25/australian-deployment-to-ukraine-imminent.html So we got 190 Australian police (some armed), plus 50 unarmed Dutch police, plus unknown amount of Dutch Special Forces plus unknown amount of Australian Special Forces. |
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