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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:33:56 AM EDT
[#1]
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I'll continue to buy Geissele. Haven't tried the MBT, no plans to. I doubt there is enough improvement to overcome the distaste of having to buy from ML. 
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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:37:41 AM EDT
[#2]
all my rifles except my FNC have geissele triggers
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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:56:27 AM EDT
[#3]
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I'll continue to buy Geissele. Haven't tried the MBT, no plans to. I doubt there is enough improvement to overcome the distaste of having to buy from ML. Spare me your distaste, but do spend your loose change for a good cause ...
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/local/shooting-competition-raffle-to-benefit-wounded-marine-2652a076-cb47-7d0a-e053-0100007f2e73-372603771.html?d=mobile |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:12:52 AM EDT
[#4]
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Some of the older trigger threads are fun ... 3.5 hours of CNC machining ... https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=362416&page=1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I bought another SSA-E this week. I've always had good results with Geissele products. I would really like to get ahold of one of those LaRue triggers. I'm sure they are a high quality product as well. Don't be fooled by the MBT price. Mark has stated he's improved production methods and wanted to pass the savings on to the shooters while he still made enough to purchase 3 new EDM machines. Another trigger manufacturer has less production overhead, recouped all their R&D money, improved production rates and still keeps their prices high and even continue to raise prices because they know that some people assume that a higher price trigger is a better product. P.T. Barnum was right. I read another post of yours where you imply you were employed by G up until 2014. You an angry ex employee? In my opinion there isn't much difference in price for an SSA or MBT. Mark is smart to offer the MBT at 125 for those who will wait. He needs to cut the price to get into the market. Sure his fangroup will buy whatever he makes but he probably wants more of the market share than that. Why do you suppose he started jumping into all the G threads with his "Trigger war" nonsense? Why would G lower thier price if the products are still selling? Makes no business sense at all. They have plenty of sales if you wait. I do think Mark is on to something with his MBT though. The repeatability on his graph in another thread appears impressive. However, he's no independent test group so I read his results with skepticism. Because again, he's trying to get into the market. But like I said the graph was impressive. Competition is great for the end users. If Mark starts taking a huge chunk of the market G will need to step up thier game. So, the end users win. Some of the older trigger threads are fun ... 3.5 hours of CNC machining ... https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=362416&page=1 So pretend I'm dumb. What are you saying with that link? What am I supposed to take away from it? I was hoping it was more testing of your trigger, not about G Scar triggers. Are you questioning the cnc time? Are you saying because your trigger is machined you should charge more? I hate cryptic messages  .
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:13:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Holy shit, this thread is still going?!
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:17:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like my Larue MBT over the Geisselle SSA-E. I think the second stage is not so great on the SSA-E. Everyone will probably beat me up over this but, I think the second stage on the SSA-E is a little creepy. It won't break when I want it to and it messes me up. I'm using it on a MK12 type rifle with a 2.5-10 NF that is really accurate and I think it would be more consistent with a different trigger. I'm going to buy the Geissle Hi-Speed DMR soon to see if I like it. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:23:13 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Holy shit, this thread is still going?! Well when you start an epic troll thread and ML jumps in, it brings out the absolute best in everyone.
I'd be disappointed if it weren't going this long. And so far no one's been too much of an asshole to get it locked. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:32:02 AM EDT
[#8]
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That's really odd to me because I had literally the exact opposite experience between the MBT and the SD-E. The MBT takes more relative weight to break the 2nd stage and it's more than "feels right", like I have to further compress finger pad tissue to cause the break which adds more variability to the sensation and messes me up, and it has a tiny roll to it instead of a crisp snap when it breaks, so it feels less controllable. The SD-E has a perfect weight and crisp snap to the break for a "tactical" SPR, IMO. Also i feel less movement of mass in the rifle from the SD-E hammer tham the MBT. It's a shame because the trigger bow feels best on the MBT as does the feeling of precise movement of mass of the trigger itself. It's just the break and hammer mass that feels wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like my Larue MBT over the Geisselle SSA-E. I think the second stage is not so great on the SSA-E. Everyone will probably beat me up over this but, I think the second stage on the SSA-E is a little creepy. It won't break when I want it to and it messes me up. I'm using it on a MK12 type rifle with a 2.5-10 NF that is really accurate and I think it would be more consistent with a different trigger. I'm going to buy the Geissle Hi-Speed DMR soon to see if I like it. Life is a classroom and I would like to study your MBT ... if you still have it, I'll buy it back. mark (at) larue (dot) com |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:33:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well when you start an epic troll thread and ML jumps in, it brings out the absolute best in everyone.
I'd be disappointed if it weren't going this long. And so far no one's been too much of an asshole to get it locked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Holy shit, this thread is still going?! Well when you start an epic troll thread and ML jumps in, it brings out the absolute best in everyone.
I'd be disappointed if it weren't going this long. And so far no one's been too much of an asshole to get it locked. I guess it is my fault if you put it that way. 
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:36:34 AM EDT
[#10]
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I guess it is my fault if you put it that way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Holy shit, this thread is still going?! Well when you start an epic troll thread and ML jumps in, it brings out the absolute best in everyone.
I'd be disappointed if it weren't going this long. And so far no one's been too much of an asshole to get it locked. I guess it is my fault if you put it that way. Credit is what you seek, not fault. 
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Posted: 3/19/2016 11:38:06 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So pretend I'm dumb. What are you saying with that link? What am I supposed to take away from it? I was hoping it was more testing of your trigger, not about G Scar triggers. Are you questioning the cnc time? Are you saying because your trigger is machined you should charge more? I hate cryptic messages .
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I bought another SSA-E this week. I've always had good results with Geissele products. I would really like to get ahold of one of those LaRue triggers. I'm sure they are a high quality product as well. Don't be fooled by the MBT price. Mark has stated he's improved production methods and wanted to pass the savings on to the shooters while he still made enough to purchase 3 new EDM machines. Another trigger manufacturer has less production overhead, recouped all their R&D money, improved production rates and still keeps their prices high and even continue to raise prices because they know that some people assume that a higher price trigger is a better product. P.T. Barnum was right. I read another post of yours where you imply you were employed by G up until 2014. You an angry ex employee? In my opinion there isn't much difference in price for an SSA or MBT. Mark is smart to offer the MBT at 125 for those who will wait. He needs to cut the price to get into the market. Sure his fangroup will buy whatever he makes but he probably wants more of the market share than that. Why do you suppose he started jumping into all the G threads with his "Trigger war" nonsense? Why would G lower thier price if the products are still selling? Makes no business sense at all. They have plenty of sales if you wait. I do think Mark is on to something with his MBT though. The repeatability on his graph in another thread appears impressive. However, he's no independent test group so I read his results with skepticism. Because again, he's trying to get into the market. But like I said the graph was impressive. Competition is great for the end users. If Mark starts taking a huge chunk of the market G will need to step up thier game. So, the end users win. Some of the older trigger threads are fun ... 3.5 hours of CNC machining ... https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=362416&page=1 So pretend I'm dumb. What are you saying with that link? What am I supposed to take away from it? I was hoping it was more testing of your trigger, not about G Scar triggers. Are you questioning the cnc time? Are you saying because your trigger is machined you should charge more? I hate cryptic messages .
$400 billet trigger ... |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 11:44:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So pretend I'm dumb. What are you saying with that link? What am I supposed to take away from it? I was hoping it was more testing of your trigger, not about G Scar triggers. Are you questioning the cnc time? Are you saying because your trigger is machined you should charge more? I hate cryptic messages .
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I bought another SSA-E this week. I've always had good results with Geissele products. I would really like to get ahold of one of those LaRue triggers. I'm sure they are a high quality product as well. Don't be fooled by the MBT price. Mark has stated he's improved production methods and wanted to pass the savings on to the shooters while he still made enough to purchase 3 new EDM machines. Another trigger manufacturer has less production overhead, recouped all their R&D money, improved production rates and still keeps their prices high and even continue to raise prices because they know that some people assume that a higher price trigger is a better product. P.T. Barnum was right. I read another post of yours where you imply you were employed by G up until 2014. You an angry ex employee? In my opinion there isn't much difference in price for an SSA or MBT. Mark is smart to offer the MBT at 125 for those who will wait. He needs to cut the price to get into the market. Sure his fangroup will buy whatever he makes but he probably wants more of the market share than that. Why do you suppose he started jumping into all the G threads with his "Trigger war" nonsense? Why would G lower thier price if the products are still selling? Makes no business sense at all. They have plenty of sales if you wait. I do think Mark is on to something with his MBT though. The repeatability on his graph in another thread appears impressive. However, he's no independent test group so I read his results with skepticism. Because again, he's trying to get into the market. But like I said the graph was impressive. Competition is great for the end users. If Mark starts taking a huge chunk of the market G will need to step up thier game. So, the end users win. Some of the older trigger threads are fun ... 3.5 hours of CNC machining ... https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=362416&page=1 So pretend I'm dumb. What are you saying with that link? What am I supposed to take away from it? I was hoping it was more testing of your trigger, not about G Scar triggers. Are you questioning the cnc time? Are you saying because your trigger is machined you should charge more? I hate cryptic messages .
Lerues triggers are the best and he is willing to ruin any thread to say so |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 11:51:49 AM EDT
[#13]
^^^
There's no thread ruining going on, but nice work on your part trying to start a thread ruin. 
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Posted: 3/19/2016 11:55:58 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote History[b]Quoted:
Lerues triggers are the best and he is willing to ruin any thread to say so Now now, I'm a ML antics hater too. But I am always interested in progress and what makes a product better. If he is making a better mouse trap I'm interested in learning about it. Like I said above, competition is a good thing for the end users. We end up with better products and possibly lower cost.
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Posted: 3/19/2016 11:59:04 AM EDT
[#15]
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I read another post of yours where you imply you were employed by G up until 2014. You an angry ex employee? Ex-Yes, left on my terms with 2 weeks notice. Angry-No, it's a waste of time. Life is too short to go around being angry. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 12:03:13 PM EDT
[#16]
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Now now, I'm a ML antics hater too. But I am always interested in progress and what makes a product better. If he is making a better mouse trap I'm interested in learning about it. Like I said above, competition is a good thing for the end users. We end up with better products and possibly lower cost.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[b]Quoted:
Lerues triggers are the best and he is willing to ruin any thread to say so Now now, I'm a ML antics hater too. But I am always interested in progress and what makes a product better. If he is making a better mouse trap I'm interested in learning about it. Like I said above, competition is a good thing for the end users. We end up with better products and possibly lower cost.
The funny thing is I've never seen him explain why and how his are better, specifically. He usually just comes in and chest thumps and posts the same pictures from results of some match. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 12:22:27 PM EDT
[#17]
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Ex-Yes, left on my terms with 2 weeks notice. Angry-No, it's a waste of time. Life is too short to go around being angry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read another post of yours where you imply you were employed by G up until 2014. You an angry ex employee? Ex-Yes, left on my terms with 2 weeks notice. Angry-No, it's a waste of time. Life is too short to go around being angry. You also mentioned you put some hours in with the trigger pulling machine, is the machine biased or does is it just pull the trigger and spit out the graph? |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 12:27:30 PM EDT
[#18]
I need 8 MBT's......must have missed my email....
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Posted: 3/19/2016 12:50:08 PM EDT
[#19]
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You also mentioned you put some hours in with the trigger pulling machine, is the machine biased or does is it just pull the trigger and spit out the graph? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read another post of yours where you imply you were employed by G up until 2014. You an angry ex employee? Ex-Yes, left on my terms with 2 weeks notice. Angry-No, it's a waste of time. Life is too short to go around being angry. You also mentioned you put some hours in with the trigger pulling machine, is the machine biased or does is it just pull the trigger and spit out the graph? The fact that it is not independent testing means its should be treated as biased, but you know that. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 12:55:36 PM EDT
[#20]
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Ex-Yes, left on my terms with 2 weeks notice. Angry-No, it's a waste of time. Life is too short to go around being angry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read another post of yours where you imply you were employed by G up until 2014. You an angry ex employee? Ex-Yes, left on my terms with 2 weeks notice. Angry-No, it's a waste of time. Life is too short to go around being angry. Thanks for your honest answer. It's good to know the background on someone posting negative things about a company. Especially when they used to work for them. I've heard rumor that there was a plane flying around with a banner attached trying to get G employees to jump ship. Have you moved to texas  ?
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Posted: 3/19/2016 1:02:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We've lost your order ... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Almost 4 months.  ETA: Corrected. We've lost your order ...  Don't make me put to use the orphaned SSA-E I have in my safe.;'[pppppppppppds.dxxxxxfff Hehe.. Cat walked on the laptop. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 1:11:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Oops double tap. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 1:14:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But.... They have to be good. They are Meticulously Built Triggers. First I'd say they are not cast, second his (maybe biased ) graphs show they are very consistent. But.... time will tell. Still it's good. G is making scope mounts now. Look how few manufacturers made mounts prior to Laure. Look how many make them now. What is really the best part is there is a big enough market for them all to compete for. Think how many more AR'S are out there now, in civilians hands compared to the 1970's and later. It's a beautiful thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lerues triggers are the best and he is willing to ruin any thread to say so Now now, I'm a ML antics hater too. But I am always interested in progress and what makes a product better. If he is making a better mouse trap I'm interested in learning about it. Like I said above, competition is a good thing for the end users. We end up with better products and possibly lower cost.
The funny thing is I've never seen him explain why and how his are better, specifically. He usually just comes in and chest thumps and posts the same pictures from results of some match. But.... They have to be good. They are Meticulously Built Triggers. First I'd say they are not cast, second his (maybe biased ) graphs show they are very consistent. But.... time will tell. Still it's good. G is making scope mounts now. Look how few manufacturers made mounts prior to Laure. Look how many make them now. What is really the best part is there is a big enough market for them all to compete for. Think how many more AR'S are out there now, in civilians hands compared to the 1970's and later. It's a beautiful thing. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 1:24:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Guess I need to get installing and testing...
 Mark - great looking trigger and keep up the good work! Also thanks for everything in the box and some Dillo Dust will be going on grilled steaks this evening. This really is a great time to be buying quality parts from quality manufacturers. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 1:28:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Dang it, BCV had scared up a nice pic of Stadium_Boss (GO TEAM!!), hint, rogue_boss looks nothing like his avatar, but alas, it got the axe.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1810785__ARCHIVED_THREAD____LaRue_Tactical_Class_Act.html&page=11 ETA - If anybody wonders what I look like, I'm the unbiased guy with the LaRue hat on ... 
The man with the flat top is West Houston Airport's Chief Pilot Hank Henry 
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Posted: 3/19/2016 1:29:26 PM EDT
[#26]
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Guess I need to get installing and testing... http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r24/Gatorcountry/20160319_1313011_zpsqhekmpk6.jpg Mark - great looking trigger and keep up the good work! Also thanks for everything in the box and some Dillo Dust will be going on grilled steaks this evening. This really is a great time to be buying quality parts from quality manufacturers. Oh rats, another bought-my-MBT-cheap biased review coming up. 
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Posted: 3/19/2016 1:35:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Last night I took these two rifles to the range. Both rifles shot amazingly, but I was able to compare the two different brand triggers at the same time.
(top) AERO Precision 308win 18" with LaRue MBT (bottom) BCM/Armalite (MK12) 5.56 18" with Geissele SSA.  I can honestly say between these two triggers I prefer the MBT over the SSA. It was smoother on the pull with a nice crisp break. Now I'm not knocking Geissele as I have multiple Geissele triggers, but this MBT was worth the wait and price. My MK12 clone will retain the SSA for cloning reason, but future rifles will likely be housing a LaRue MBT over a Geissele. And even though this will never pursued my decision to purchase one brand over another, LaRue always goes the extra mile regardless what you purchase from them (LaRue trigger, Trijicon, Geissele trigger, etc). So other people/companies can talk trash about Mark/LaRue all they want, but truth be told LaRue always take care of their customers with great products and great service.  |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 4:06:32 PM EDT
[#28]
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You also mentioned you put some hours in with the trigger pulling machine, is the machine biased or does is it just pull the trigger and spit out the graph? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read another post of yours where you imply you were employed by G up until 2014. You an angry ex employee? Ex-Yes, left on my terms with 2 weeks notice. Angry-No, it's a waste of time. Life is too short to go around being angry. You also mentioned you put some hours in with the trigger pulling machine, is the machine biased or does is it just pull the trigger and spit out the graph? I have to smile at this one. Little bit of history here. In a previous trigger war, (yes this thread isn't the first one, LOL) Xtreme triggers was bashing the GA triggers and consistently brought up lock time among other things related to manufacturing. They claimed the fastest lock time out there so we, I mean GA, purchased a Dvorak trigger tester to find out what our lock time actually was and to compare it to other triggers that were out there at that time. We were quite surprised when the first HS trigger I tested came in at 4.2ms. I tried several other HS trigger and got similar results so then I switched out several lowers and again came in with the same results. We had two samples of the Xtreme trigger in the shop. Testing them in the several lowers revealed they had a consistent lock time around 5.4 ms. not their claimed 4 ms. When I posted the results on the forum, I was told I was biased, that I set the trigger up wrong, didn't know what I was doing etc. I have pride and take integrity in my work. The results spoke for themselves. The problem was they were using high speed photography to determine lock time by the movement of the hammer. With the Dvorak system, which is an industry standard, it measures from the release of the hammer until the firing pin actually hits the primer, then prints out the results on a graph depending on what parameters you are testing. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 4:16:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have to smile at this one. Little bit of history here. In a previous trigger war, (yes this thread isn't the first one, LOL) Xtreme triggers was bashing the GA triggers and consistently brought up lock time among other things related to manufacturing. They claimed the fastest lock time out there so we, I mean GA, purchased a Dvorak trigger tester to find out what our lock time actually was and to compare it to other triggers that were out there at that time. We were quite surprised when the first HS trigger I tested came in at 4.2ms. I tried several other HS trigger and got similar results so then I switched out several lowers and again came in with the same results. We had two samples of the Xtreme trigger in the shop. Testing them in the several lowers revealed they had a consistent lock time around 5.4 ms. not their claimed 4 ms. When I posted the results on the forum, I was told I was biased, that I set the trigger up wrong, didn't know what I was doing etc. I have pride and take integrity in my work. The results spoke for themselves. The problem was they were using high speed photography to determine lock time by the movement of the hammer. With the Dvorak system, which is an industry standard, it measures from the release of the hammer until the firing pin actually hits the primer, then prints out the results on a graph depending on what parameters you are testing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read another post of yours where you imply you were employed by G up until 2014. You an angry ex employee? Ex-Yes, left on my terms with 2 weeks notice. Angry-No, it's a waste of time. Life is too short to go around being angry. You also mentioned you put some hours in with the trigger pulling machine, is the machine biased or does is it just pull the trigger and spit out the graph? I have to smile at this one. Little bit of history here. In a previous trigger war, (yes this thread isn't the first one, LOL) Xtreme triggers was bashing the GA triggers and consistently brought up lock time among other things related to manufacturing. They claimed the fastest lock time out there so we, I mean GA, purchased a Dvorak trigger tester to find out what our lock time actually was and to compare it to other triggers that were out there at that time. We were quite surprised when the first HS trigger I tested came in at 4.2ms. I tried several other HS trigger and got similar results so then I switched out several lowers and again came in with the same results. We had two samples of the Xtreme trigger in the shop. Testing them in the several lowers revealed they had a consistent lock time around 5.4 ms. not their claimed 4 ms. When I posted the results on the forum, I was told I was biased, that I set the trigger up wrong, didn't know what I was doing etc. I have pride and take integrity in my work. The results spoke for themselves. The problem was they were using high speed photography to determine lock time by the movement of the hammer. With the Dvorak system, which is an industry standard, it measures from the release of the hammer until the firing pin actually hits the primer, then prints out the results on a graph depending on what parameters you are testing. Cool, glad I bought and then "hardened" one. Our Trigger Raw Data Collection Device ... note sabilized mounting system.
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Posted: 3/20/2016 1:40:31 PM EDT
[#30]
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I'm still waiting to hear 45 minutes of nutnfancy's thoughts on the MBT before I make a purchasing decision.  87th kind of cool. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 3:09:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm still waiting to hear 45 minutes of nutnfancy's thoughts on the MBT before I make a purchasing decision. yeah right after I get him to "correctly" install a gas block for me.... it might be a while, snickers??? |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 3:10:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you manage to put an mbus pro sight on backwards? Lol Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looks like my MBT should be here today..... It is here! It went in a nice little 308 I have  <a href="http://s788.photobucket.com/user/jimmys120/media/7E65AC77-1469-4556-898C-E9312893B0C3_zpsjmo79fun.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/jimmys120/7E65AC77-1469-4556-898C-E9312893B0C3_zpsjmo79fun.jpg</a> How do you manage to put an mbus pro sight on backwards? Lol |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 3:14:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Geissele triggers are fantastic and have a long track record of success. I would imagine that their capital investments are paid off by now, so they're probably doing fine.
Nothing wrong with having nice triggers on the market. I'm partial to the LaRue for precision stuff. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 3:32:06 PM EDT
[#34]
On one hand, we have the gold standard for both trigger performance and reliability for the last decade backed up by military contracts and a company whose primary business for most of that time was nothing but triggers. On the other, we have a trigger that's been out for a little over a year built by an obnoxious dude whose primary business hasn't been triggers.
Yeah, nahhhh. Pretty sure Geissele is and will remain the gold standard/king until the MBT has at least 5 years of testing and rigorous, hard use to corroborate ML's boasts. Somehow, I expect Geissele will still be king. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 4:07:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On one hand, we have the gold standard for both trigger performance and reliability for the last decade backed up by military contracts and a company whose primary business for most of that time was nothing but triggers. On the other, we have a trigger that's been out for a little over a year built by an obnoxious dude whose primary business hasn't been triggers. Yeah, nahhhh. Pretty sure Geissele is and will remain the gold standard/king until the MBT has at least 5 years of testing and rigorous, hard use to corroborate ML's boasts. Somehow, I expect Geissele will still be king. Maybe so, I'll take Obnoxious King Of The Pink Triggers ... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/274914_Let_s_get_this_party_started___who_wanted_the_pink_MBT__.html |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 4:08:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have to smile at this one. Little bit of history here. In a previous trigger war, (yes this thread isn't the first one, LOL) Xtreme triggers was bashing the GA triggers and consistently brought up lock time among other things related to manufacturing. They claimed the fastest lock time out there so we, I mean GA, purchased a Dvorak trigger tester to find out what our lock time actually was and to compare it to other triggers that were out there at that time. We were quite surprised when the first HS trigger I tested came in at 4.2ms. I tried several other HS trigger and got similar results so then I switched out several lowers and again came in with the same results. We had two samples of the Xtreme trigger in the shop. Testing them in the several lowers revealed they had a consistent lock time around 5.4 ms. not their claimed 4 ms. When I posted the results on the forum, I was told I was biased, that I set the trigger up wrong, didn't know what I was doing etc. I have pride and take integrity in my work. The results spoke for themselves. The problem was they were using high speed photography to determine lock time by the movement of the hammer. With the Dvorak system, which is an industry standard, it measures from the release of the hammer until the firing pin actually hits the primer, then prints out the results on a graph depending on what parameters you are testing. Quote HistoryQuoted: I have to smile at this one. Little bit of history here. In a previous trigger war, (yes this thread isn't the first one, LOL) Xtreme triggers was bashing the GA triggers and consistently brought up lock time among other things related to manufacturing. They claimed the fastest lock time out there so we, I mean GA, purchased a Dvorak trigger tester to find out what our lock time actually was and to compare it to other triggers that were out there at that time. We were quite surprised when the first HS trigger I tested came in at 4.2ms. I tried several other HS trigger and got similar results so then I switched out several lowers and again came in with the same results. We had two samples of the Xtreme trigger in the shop. Testing them in the several lowers revealed they had a consistent lock time around 5.4 ms. not their claimed 4 ms. When I posted the results on the forum, I was told I was biased, that I set the trigger up wrong, didn't know what I was doing etc. I have pride and take integrity in my work. The results spoke for themselves. The problem was they were using high speed photography to determine lock time by the movement of the hammer. With the Dvorak system, which is an industry standard, it measures from the release of the hammer until the firing pin actually hits the primer, then prints out the results on a graph depending on what parameters you are testing. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 8:53:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool, glad I bought and then "hardened" one. Our Trigger Raw Data Collection Device ... note sabilized mounting system.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/IMG_0722_zpstwwv2bfp.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read another post of yours where you imply you were employed by G up until 2014. You an angry ex employee? Ex-Yes, left on my terms with 2 weeks notice. Angry-No, it's a waste of time. Life is too short to go around being angry. You also mentioned you put some hours in with the trigger pulling machine, is the machine biased or does is it just pull the trigger and spit out the graph? I have to smile at this one. Little bit of history here. In a previous trigger war, (yes this thread isn't the first one, LOL) Xtreme triggers was bashing the GA triggers and consistently brought up lock time among other things related to manufacturing. They claimed the fastest lock time out there so we, I mean GA, purchased a Dvorak trigger tester to find out what our lock time actually was and to compare it to other triggers that were out there at that time. We were quite surprised when the first HS trigger I tested came in at 4.2ms. I tried several other HS trigger and got similar results so then I switched out several lowers and again came in with the same results. We had two samples of the Xtreme trigger in the shop. Testing them in the several lowers revealed they had a consistent lock time around 5.4 ms. not their claimed 4 ms. When I posted the results on the forum, I was told I was biased, that I set the trigger up wrong, didn't know what I was doing etc. I have pride and take integrity in my work. The results spoke for themselves. The problem was they were using high speed photography to determine lock time by the movement of the hammer. With the Dvorak system, which is an industry standard, it measures from the release of the hammer until the firing pin actually hits the primer, then prints out the results on a graph depending on what parameters you are testing. Cool, glad I bought and then "hardened" one. Our Trigger Raw Data Collection Device ... note sabilized mounting system.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/IMG_0722_zpstwwv2bfp.jpg Nice modification to the rifle mount! Also looks like you're running the upgraded software. Your graph results are impressive with the consistency of the MBT triggers. What people may not realize is that the program will allow you to make multiple passes, but you cannot delete a single pass in the testing process. So, if say pass #8 has some quirk to it, you cannot erase that pass to skew the results. |
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Posted: 3/21/2016 4:34:50 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Life is a classroom and I would like to study your MBT ... if you still have it, I'll buy it back. mark (at) larue (dot) com Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I like my Larue MBT over the Geisselle SSA-E. I think the second stage is not so great on the SSA-E. Everyone will probably beat me up over this but, I think the second stage on the SSA-E is a little creepy. It won't break when I want it to and it messes me up. I'm using it on a MK12 type rifle with a 2.5-10 NF that is really accurate and I think it would be more consistent with a different trigger. I'm going to buy the Geissle Hi-Speed DMR soon to see if I like it. Life is a classroom and I would like to study your MBT ... if you still have it, I'll buy it back. mark (at) larue (dot) com After finding Jaqufrost's trigger pull graphs of the MBT and SSA/SSA-E I think it's pretty safe to say my MBT is in-spec and I just prefer the pull curves on the GA triggers. It's clear you're able to hold tighter tolerances, and there are definitely things I prefer about the MBT, like trigger bow feel and durability. So while I will probably take you up on the refund, I'm hoping you'll reach out to me regarding the details I think could be tweaked in a more SSA-E-like variant that would really satisfy folks with similar preferences.
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Posted: 3/21/2016 10:39:07 AM EDT
[#39]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 3/21/2016 10:45:35 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dang it, BCV had scared up a nice pic of Stadium_Boss (GO TEAM!!), hint, rogue_boss looks nothing like his avatar, but alas, it got the axe.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1810785__ARCHIVED_THREAD____LaRue_Tactical_Class_Act.html&page=11 ETA - If anybody wonders what I look like, I'm the unbiased guy with the LaRue hat on ...
The man with the flat top is West Houston Airport's Chief Pilot Hank Henry http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/3.16.16img_zpsih3ydfxn.jpeg Actually, no, that wasn't me in the picture he posted. But once again, thanks for the laugh at your fail |
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Posted: 3/21/2016 12:58:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Thread has run its course.
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