User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:47:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Believe it or not, there are other worthwhile things to do....and many involve wildlife. One prefers seeing huge holes blown in them, some prefer seeing them living in the wild without blowing holes in them. I'm of the later group. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:49:06 AM EDT
[#2]
well, here's what I meant, maybe if I had explained it better I wouldn't of gotten myself into trouble. I don't have a problem with hunting any animal if it provides a need, such as clothing, meat, or even pest control. I've done the last 2. I do have a problem with people who do not need new clothing, are not going to eat the animal, but just want to pose in front of it's dead carcus to have a nice wall hanger when they get back. What purpose does that serve? again, pests are pests, they're a threat to crops, children, livestock, then by all means do some hunting, and if you're going to eat the animal, then by all means. They were put on the earth by God to serve our needs, and I don't think trophy hunting fits into that purpose. But maybe not all trophy hunting is killing then leaving. -mark |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:49:06 AM EDT
[#3]
M4, Go to the library and pick up any book by Peter Hathaway Capstick. "Death in the Long Grass" is a favorite. He spent a lot of time in Africa as a PWH. He describes much of Africa in a way that really brings it home. Regardless of the motives behind trophy hunters, they are the ones who's fees keep the animals valuable, in demand and, ultimately in existence. FatMan |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:49:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Let's do a quick economic comparison of culling in Africa or other struggling nations:
1) Lion or other "trophy animal" population needs thinning, or culling. 2) Game wardens from the area can kill the animals as needed -- cost = cost of the bullet. Profit = 0. OR 2) Game wardens and the national wildlife group arranges to have trophy hunters come in and pay upwards of $4000 American dollars to cull the same animals as above. Each! If the hunt was in Zimbabwe, they would get $3,296,000 ZWD for a hunt that brought in $4,000US. Hmm.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:50:32 AM EDT
[#5]
That makes about as much sense as a harelipp ordering biggie fries in the drive thru 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:50:32 AM EDT
[#6]
I've been chase out of the woods by critters that I've been hunting before. Barn owl, mountain lion, big fat old cow and nice muley buck have all taken a whack at me during hunting season. Part of the fun. Of course none of those will put a hurt on you like a lion. Wish I could have gotten some of that stuff on vid.......
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:51:18 AM EDT
[#7]
an old one
9 shots and only 3 hits i always thought it was a canned hunt. still do! kinda wish the lion did more dammage. what was cool was that the lion attacked the original shooter. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:52:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Regardless of what the hunter is fueled by, which IMHO is the natural desire to hunt, they dump LOTS of much needed money into areas that would otherwise not get it. There are many people in history that have gone on hunts in africa. Are you saying they are all "douche bags"? I understand your stance is, as YOU have seen it. That is however only small window of over 100+ years of succesful hunting in Africa. There is alot more out there then just what "YOUR' expeirence has shown. I have no trouble accepting how you percieve trophy hunting. I ask only that you accept others views as well. Good day. CH |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:52:48 AM EDT
[#9]
I believe it is a canned hunt.
The assertion that there are "tons of fences" in Africa, to prevent lion attacks, is laughable. Africa is incredibly poor. "lion fences", even with low labor costs would be wildly expensive. Lion attacks are incredibly rare. Unlike hippo attacks, croc attacks, snake bites, etc. Besides of which Africa is awash in $50 AK-47's. Why would you need a fence when your village is festooned with real military assualt rifles? Next, when the lion starts moving away, the "hunting party" just calmly changes position. Unlikely that would happen unless they knew the lion had no place to go. If it was a lion that was going to be "culled" I doubt there would be all the "lining up the shot" stuff, or the expensive rifles. It would be 1 shot from a working rifle, as soon as a shot could be lined up. Look at the "woodsy" terrain, lions are "plains" animals. Seems like the lion was imported just based on the terrain. How many people actually survive a charge be a wild male lion, who is used to killing game animals? Why didn't the lion claw with it's fore legs?............................... Could it be he is declawed? That was no more of a "hunt" than SOCOM II is a like a tour of duty in Iraq. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:53:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Man that video gave me goosebumps watching it, that was intense.
I will never cheer for the animal to kill a hunter since I am a hunter also, but if this was a canned hunt somewhere I think it is a disgraceful way to hunt . And a true hunter would never do that! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:54:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is the recent upsurge of true scientific game management in much of Africa is ONLY possible due to "trophy hunter's" DOLLARS. I'm always amused by the ones who are so ardent and vocal with the "if *I* don't do it, and/or don't approve of it, then it's BAD, BAD, BAD, BAD--and shouldn't be done by others." Talk about ego. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 7:55:47 AM EDT
[#12]
Actually there are LOTs of fences in Africa. And most protect livestock. Those attacks are not RARE. A cull hunt can be by PH or by paying hunter. Often times a PH will get a call saying that farmer x has a lion that needs culling. The PH then offers to client at a discounted rate. At taht point the hunter is paying for the PH to guide him in the hunt. BTW, there are trees in Africa! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:00:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Africa is making a lot of money, on get this, people that want to see LIVE animals in thier natural habitat...................... aka the large game preserves etc. A lot of the "hunts" are private affairs, so the government doesn't make money on them. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:01:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Not Texas. The clothing, accents, and vegetation are wrong. Then there is that credit at the end listing "South Africa".
Lastly, I'd haved to check but I believe canned hunts of predators/endangered species is illegal here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:03:59 AM EDT
[#15]
No shit............. Did you read and UNDERSTAND before you commented? Why don't you see sharks on the plains? Or lions at sea? Because animals live in certain types of terrain. Polar bears don't get spotted in Mexico................... you catching on? If I go to a petting zoo and shot 3 deer, it isn't hunting. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:05:20 AM EDT
[#16]
Wasn't he bleeding from the arm when he is seen at the end of the video? The only thing to make contact was the lions' paw, so..... I doubt it was declawed. The man side stepped an attack that would have, claws or not, put him down for the count. Even sucessful lions miss a kill here and there, and males don't hunt a great deal anyway. It could well be a canned hunt but you are making a lot of assumptions there. I'm just impressed with an animal that charged through rifle fire and damn near put an end to it's attacker. That's power you just have to respect. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:05:48 AM EDT
[#17]
I hunt deer, hogs, rabbits. . . . . . . things I kill and eat.
There is something inherently wrong about 5 guys with high powered rifles hunting a lion just to put his head on the wall. Call me a PETA-puffer, I'm far from it. There's just something wrong about that shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:12:54 AM EDT
[#18]
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:13:20 AM EDT
[#19]
that's what I meant in the beginning.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:15:05 AM EDT
[#20]
Me too. Not because I love lions but because I hate dumbasses with rifles. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:15:34 AM EDT
[#21]
And then there's the guy who says you hunt animals which have no (or little in the case of hogs) ability to "fight back"--and THAT is "inherently wrong." Opinions are like assholes (everybody has one)--and stink just as much.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:41:03 AM EDT
[#22]
wasn't that Sinbad in one of his stand ups? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:45:40 AM EDT
[#23]
Dunno--I've heard of him but I have never seen/heard any of his routines. I just made that up to make a point. 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:46:17 AM EDT
[#24]
That video and some others can be found on the doemasters.com site. There is one that they convince this guy that a styrafoam buck has been chasing does and get him to shoot it about three times. TOO FUNNY!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 8:48:48 AM EDT
[#25]
What exactly are you trying to say, BK? Hunting animals for food, hunting animals to show my kids to respect and love the woods and understand firearm safety and respect has nothing to do with the sort of hunting depicted in that video. That's all I'm saying. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 9:08:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Anyone who risks his hide to hunt down a cat that has been killing villagers is okay in my book. That cat was trying to kill the hunter and came close to succeeding. That was a real hunt, not the typical rabbit sniper and deer stand assassin crap that gets called “hunting” around these parts. There is a difference between hunting and harvesting that is lost on those that have never been hunted. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 9:12:29 AM EDT
[#27]
What I'm saying is that all <legal> hunting is "good"--and the fact you/I/someone else doesn't do a particular thing, or particularly approve of something, does not make it "bad." We are all entitled to our opinions, to be sure, but I hate to see one hunter, or group of hunters, berate and condemn other hunters. Perfect examples are the "stick bow" hunters who condemn those of us who use compound bows, flintlock muzzleloader hunters who condemn in-lines, and those who use iron sights who condemn those who use telescopic sights.  From what I understand, most of the meat from "trophy" animals killed in Africa are an important source of meat for the locals--and does NOT go to waste. For sure, the income from the trophy hunters is a vital part of the local economy. If anyone doesn't wish to be a "trophy hunter" that's fine--but please don't condemn those who do. "We need to hang together or surely we shall all be hung separately." --B. Franklin |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 9:22:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Theres' a difference between a "hunt" and killing. If I go to the local zoo and pop a polare bear, giraffe, and a mountain goat, that's not a hunt no matter how I try and twist it. If I work in a slaughter house and shoot cows in the head all day long................ again not a hunt. Going into an enclosure, with a animal there, with no possibility of escape, isn't a hunt anymore than either one of my examples. All three are killing, not hunting. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 9:24:14 AM EDT
[#29]
I am amazed none of them retarded fucks shot each other.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 9:28:24 AM EDT
[#30]
Agreed--but the very end listed some "Hunting In South Africa" business--with contact information. The rest of this thread strongly indicates there is no way to know/confirm there is an enclosure involved. Do you have information not known by the rest of us?  Either way, if it was a cull of a confined animal and not a hunt, then there is still no reason to condemn them. Sheesh. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 9:41:09 AM EDT
[#31]
Perfectly reasonable. I welcome the day when my personal view is challenged by an experience to the contrary. I do understand the benefit, despite the mind set. I'm not talking about erdicating big game hunting, I'm speaking about a matter of principle, not economics or ecology. I apologize for speaking more abruptly than necessary. P.S.- There's a place to eat outside Nairobi called "The Carnavore". It serves up every animal you can think of that wonders Eastern Africa, and those animals served there were culled. I'm no vegan and enjoyed every bite of every animal I tasted there, and there were many. Again, it's not about killing, nor hunting. It's about a mind set of a specific group that I've found to be largely repulsive. Nothing more. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 9:42:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Clearly pointed at me, which is fine. Your misunderstanding of my position is the only minor gripe I have. No big deal. 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 9:45:34 AM EDT
[#33]
*edit*
I hate lions. Kill em all I changed my mind |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 9:56:39 AM EDT
[#34]
SHIVAN;
I took a prety close look at that video. You're right the guide APPEARS to miss the first shot. The bullet strikes the ground at the hind foot of the lion. The second shot could just as easily be a miss with the impact being out of the camera's view. It also COULD have hit the lion. No way to tell for sure. M4; I have hunted all over Texas, while it could be Texas, I tend to think it is where the video claims. Mainly because there is NO evidence to support anything else. If there is one thing that being on ARFCOM has taught me, if someone lies, someone somewhere knows the truth and will expose them here. Everyone crying about hunting; I see no evidence this was a canned hunt. If it was, what a bunch of dumbasses. If I was the shooter, the first shot would have been followed be a second and even a third. That lion stoppped long enough to hit him again right after the first shot. The shooter and guide screwed up IMO. They both should have blasted away when the lion didn't go down on the first shot. There is no use arguing about the merits vs. immorality of trophy hunting. To each his own. I consider myself a trophy hunter. I also believe the money I spend HELPS the various game animals I hunt. I will continue to believe this and no one posting here will change my feelings. I'm just as sure this post will change no anti's opinion either.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:05:29 AM EDT
[#35]
I've seen that video before. Its not from a canned hut, there was a lion who was mauling villagers and the local government allowed white game hunters to get rid of it for a fee.
Smart for the local government, lucky for the hunters they didn't get mauled. btw this is a dupe, it was posted here over year ago, and this same discussion was had and a link was posted to the account of one of the shooters. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:10:10 AM EDT
[#36]
Why cull hunt? They'll starve back into equilibrium. Always have, always will. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:13:42 AM EDT
[#37]
<person with equally valid opinion> *I* don't shoot AR-15 rifles and *I* don't see any reason people should own or shoot them. *I* only have bolt action rifles and they are just fine for any legitimate purpose a person has. Black rifles are only made to spray bullets everywhere and kill people, so there is NO reason for people to have them--it's just WRONG. *I* think *MY* opinion is the only right one. </person with equally valid opinion>
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:18:11 AM EDT
[#38]
Cut and paste from FR:
Here's the story: The lion had climbed the fence into this African cattle farm. (These were not hunters in the video....just farmers and their employees.) The lion was killing a cow a night. They had permission to kill it. He was not dead at the end of this video. He went back down to the fence and was shot and killed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:22:51 AM EDT
[#39]
If you are correct-- All the ballyhooing about "trophy hunters" and "canned hunts."  Edit: And Texas. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:29:07 AM EDT
[#40]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:32:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Hopefully you got my point. Hint: It was about those who wish to push their mere opinion upon others. Edit: [Rush Limbaugh]Using absurdity to illustrate absurdity.[/Rush Limbaugh] |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:38:47 AM EDT
[#42]
You're a piece of work BTK. Pulling parts here and there to make some "point"...which by all appearances doesn't exist. P.S.- And to suggest that it may have been Texas isn't that ridiculous. Shooting captive animals to mount their heads on a wall is a booming sport. By Jeffrey Kluger With Reporting by Melissa August/Washington, Mike Billips/Austin and Broward Liston/Lake City The exotic corsican ram trotting about the 100-yard-long pen in central Pennsylvania paid little mind to the men approaching across the field. People were always walking in and out of the pen, as often as not with food for the flock. So the ram didn't resist when the men drove all the animals toward one end of the enclosure. It was only when the first arrow--fired from just yards away--struck it in the haunch that it realized something was up. The ram hobbled off and was struck by a second arrow, then a third. It stood for a moment staring beyond the fence line and then settled onto its haunches, bleeding. A gunshot to the abdomen finished it off--preserving its head as a trophy. It has never been easy being an animal at the business end of a hunt, but these days it's hard being the hunter too. Dwindling ranges and herds make the ancient business of stalking prey an increasingly difficult proposition. The answer for many Americans is to shift their shooting grounds from the wild to one of the country's growing number of hunting preserves. By almost any measure, hunting preserves are enjoying a boom. Up to 2,000 may exist in the U.S., with 500 in Texas alone. Many advertise on the Internet and in hunting magazines, and all offer the same thing: the chance to bag a trophy, with none of the uncertainty of hunting in the wild. "No kill, no pay" is the promise many make...." |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:40:58 AM EDT
[#43]
I understand, and frankly your posts have done, in part, exactly what your post mocks. And having a conversation, a debate, expressing an opinion requires the expression of opinion in the first place. Without that, we all just roll over and agree with anything anyone happens to say or think. How exactly does EITHER side express themselves without "pushing their mere opinion" as you put it? |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:49:25 AM EDT
[#44]
My posts have not attacked, called names, or belittled anyone. I used the "lol" smilie to indicate my amusement over the hand-wringing and twisted panties over something completely nonexistent in this thread and video link. If you don't care for "trophy hunting" (by whatever definition suits your agenda) that is fine--but what on earth is there to gain by condemning those who choose to participate in the practice? THAT is my point. Calling something "wrong" when it is legal and ethical in every way is just foisting one's bullshit opinion onto others. Please show where I have forced my opinion on anyone in this thread. I have posted numerous times, so please quote the post(s) where my opinion has been forced on anyone. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:50:50 AM EDT
[#45]
If those were just farmers and employees, why was the "guide" saying take him, motioning with his hands, and acting like a "guide"? Then the video was used as a promo for a guide service. I'm not saying that you're wrong......but that SEEMS a little strange. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:52:14 AM EDT
[#46]
Early in this thread you jumped in with your tirade ranting about your disdain for "trophy hunters"--repeatedly--WHEN THIS VIDEO LINK DEALS WITH FARMERS KILLING A ROGUE LION--LEGALLY--and you talk of me attempting to "make some "point" . . . which by all appearances doesn't exist." Yup, *I* am the "piece of work."
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:57:34 AM EDT
[#47]
he only has half of the story, they allowed several GWH's who were in the area for other hunts to cull the lion. They paid for the privelege according to the story I read. It was in Africa and the lion had been mauling herd animals. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:57:54 AM EDT
[#48]
Well Oly, again you could be right, but I have to ask, what other thing scratched him during the attack? He's right there on video, what got him? You said "far fewer" wiggle out. Well, I just saw the man side-step the attack at the last moment and the creature wasn't trotting. We can't run very fast true enough, but we are not utterly helpless creatures that move only at the speed of slugs. Part of being scared shitless is the perception of time moving slowly which makes it easier to gauge that moment to act. We have a lot of instinctual devices in place that are far better adapted to this situation than driving home at rush-hour. They are there with good reason. I just don't see what you do that makes it diffinative this was both a captive-raised, and declawed lion. Not that it isn't possible, but I don't see it as pat-fact is all I'm saying. |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:58:35 AM EDT
[#49]
TBK, yer pretty quick to believe one poster providing unproven evidence to support your stance. In any other instance, you would be the first to point out that you can't believe everything you read on the internet.
No disrespect meant by that statement, just an observation. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2006 11:02:07 AM EDT
[#50]
That's true--but I do have a foggy recollection of the thread long ago and I recall a similar course of events in that thread--and being at least somewhat vindicated in the end. My only point throughout this thread has been to point out we need (IMO) to stick together rather than condemning someone who acts in a legal manner, but in a way we find personally distasteful. Edit: I tried to find it in the Archive server but no luck--using "lion" as the key word. I found another thread looking for the video, but it had little discussion. |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
