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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:37:37 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As much as a die-hard 1911 guy as I am, they are enthusiast's guns, Thank goodness the US military somehow found all those gun enthusiasts and then assigned them to positions to which 1911A1 pistols were issued. One would not have thought that possible given the numbers of people involved. But then American industry somehow cultivated a huge crop of master gunsmiths to assemble the pistols in the first place which seems an even larger miracle, right? |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:38:18 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank goodness the US military somehow found all those gun enthusiasts and then assigned them to positions to which 1911A1 pistols were issued. One would not have thought that possible given the numbers of people involved. But then American industry somehow cultivated a huge crop of master gunsmiths to assemble the pistols in the first place which seems an even larger miracle, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As much as a die-hard 1911 guy as I am, they are enthusiast's guns, Thank goodness the US military somehow found all those gun enthusiasts and then assigned them to positions to which 1911A1 pistols were issued. One would not have thought that possible given the numbers of people involved. But then American industry somehow cultivated a huge crop of master gunsmiths to assemble the pistols in the first place which seems an even larger miracle, right? I'd never use a 1911 in combat. They belong in a trashcan. 
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:38:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Based on my experience, the problem is KIMBER, not the 1911 as a design. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Say it ain't true! http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=6631&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=my-personal-path-away-from-the-1911 "The longer I was involved in this effort, the more failures I saw in the concept of the 1911 in a role as service pistol over more modern designs. One agency with whom I had a close relationship required some assistance getting their fleet of Kimber 1911srunning correctly. Fast forward 4 years and a lot of visits and phone calls to help troubleshoot broken down guns, and I was eventually able to convince this agency to discontinue the use of their team 1911s and have the team use the M&P issued to the rest of the agency. The phone has been very quiet since they went to the M&P. " Did a search but didn't find anything... Based on my experience, the problem is KIMBER, not the 1911 as a design. Yep. Recently shot a Kimber 10mm. It jammed on the 4th or 5th round every time. My RO is very reliable IF it is kept lubed. You will get FTF if it gets too dry and dirty. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:39:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Wow, what a bigggggg surprise. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:40:39 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 8 round mags use the same body as the 7 rounders. They get 8 rounds in them with a weaker spring, which takes a set pretty easily and requires frequent replacement. The 7 round spring is more robust. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OK, you do know they make 47D's with 8 rounds don't you?  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/644241/wilson-combat-magazine-with-base-pad-1911-government-commander-45-acp-8-round-stainless-steel?cm_vc=subv1644241 The 8 round mags use the same body as the 7 rounders. They get 8 rounds in them with a weaker spring, which takes a set pretty easily and requires frequent replacement. The 7 round spring is more robust. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:40:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank goodness the US military somehow found all those gun enthusiasts and then assigned them to positions to which 1911A1 pistols were issued. One would not have thought that possible given the numbers of people involved. But then American industry somehow cultivated a huge crop of master gunsmiths to assemble the pistols in the first place which seems an even larger miracle, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As much as a die-hard 1911 guy as I am, they are enthusiast's guns, Thank goodness the US military somehow found all those gun enthusiasts and then assigned them to positions to which 1911A1 pistols were issued. One would not have thought that possible given the numbers of people involved. But then American industry somehow cultivated a huge crop of master gunsmiths to assemble the pistols in the first place which seems an even larger miracle, right? Completely missed the point. That's amazing. I didn't say "military", and in the context of the article and rest of the thread (which you obviously didn't read in your quest to cherry-pick a comment), it's very obvious that the intended meaning of the statement was a current manufacture commercial firearm. Thanks for playing. May God have mercy on your soul. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:41:21 AM EDT
[#7]
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........... I'd never use a 1911 in combat. They belong in a trashcan. Oh come on now. I ain't military but do own quite a few 1911 type handguns and they go bang everytime. But I have never carried them dirty or in a battle, etc. I find it hard to believe a 1911 isn't a good firearm for fighting. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:42:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you use an 8 round mag in a gun rated for 7 rounds? Assuming the mag works, yeah. They've got 10 round 1911 mags that work pretty well in most guns, too. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:44:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh come on now. I ain't military but do own quite a few 1911 type handguns and they go bang everytime. But I have never carried them dirty or in a battle, etc. I find it hard to believe a 1911 isn't a good firearm for fighting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ........... I'd never use a 1911 in combat. They belong in a trashcan. Oh come on now. I ain't military but do own quite a few 1911 type handguns and they go bang everytime. But I have never carried them dirty or in a battle, etc. I find it hard to believe a 1911 isn't a good firearm for fighting. It is......however vastly better options exist.
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:44:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Assuming the mag works, yeah. They've got 10 round 1911 mags that work pretty well in most guns, too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can you use an 8 round mag in a gun rated for 7 rounds? Assuming the mag works, yeah. They've got 10 round 1911 mags that work pretty well in most guns, too. Interesting..........I always just went with what the manufacturer said the gun was rated for. I do have 15 round mags though but they stick out of the bottom of the mag well. They do work properly though. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:47:25 AM EDT
[#11]
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.............. It is......however vastly better options exist. What are a couple of other firearms that would be better in your opinion? |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:52:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't say "military", and in the context of the article and rest of the thread (which you obviously didn't read in your quest to cherry-pick a comment), it's very obvious that the intended meaning of the statement was a current manufacture commercial firearm. What magical, evil force which prevents a current commercial manufacturer from reproducing the pistols which were isssued to the US military? |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:54:04 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt they have been more reliable. People that buy a $2000 gun usualy try to cover up its deficiencies by saying it needs to break it, or they need to clean it. I paid ~$1100 for a shit gun. I will admit that. The best 1911s I have seen were Springfield Mil-Specs and RIAs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I had not seen the 80% fail rate. MARSOC tested 5 guns. 4 failed before reaching the requirments. MARSOC then changed the requirements.  Google MARSOC 1911 failures Frames were cracking worse than Whitney Houston on a Saturday night. Yup, the Marines have been having constant problems with them. But the ones going to civilian gunshops have been a bit more reliable. Still aint worth freaking 2000+ dollars  I doubt they have been more reliable. People that buy a $2000 gun usualy try to cover up its deficiencies by saying it needs to break it, or they need to clean it. I paid ~$1100 for a shit gun. I will admit that. The best 1911s I have seen were Springfield Mil-Specs and RIAs. I know three guys, who between them own four S&W Model 41s. All four of them are utter piece of shit safe queens, and all three owners proudly proclaim that the guns will only run on CCI Minimags, like it's a badge of honor that you have to buy expensive ammo to make it work. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:54:14 AM EDT
[#14]
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What are a couple of other firearms that would be better in your opinion? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.............. It is......however vastly better options exist. What are a couple of other firearms that would be better in your opinion? I think for mass issue 45 acp at unit level or above, M&P, Glock, FN, HK, etc. All are better options. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:54:14 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. I can't believe how well my RIA's shoot. I'm on my 3rd one. I'd carry it before my Kimber in a heartbeat. I like the Kimber, it's just that I've had enough jams with it not to trust it. I'd carry it before my Dan Wesson, same rationale as the Kimber. The RIA, with CM mags, go's bang every time. No perceptable "break in" period. Just "bang" every time. I cannot recall a jam with an RIA, ever, using CM mags (one or two with the ones that came with it, which I think are Mec gar?). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I had not seen the 80% fail rate. MARSOC tested 5 guns. 4 failed before reaching the requirments. MARSOC then changed the requirements.
Google MARSOC 1911 failures Frames were cracking worse than Whitney Houston on a Saturday night. Yup, the Marines have been having constant problems with them. But the ones going to civilian gunshops have been a bit more reliable. Still aint worth freaking 2000+ dollars I doubt they have been more reliable. People that buy a $2000 gun usualy try to cover up its deficiencies by saying it needs to break it, or they need to clean it. I paid ~$1100 for a shit gun. I will admit that. The best 1911s I have seen were Springfield Mil-Specs and RIAs. This. I can't believe how well my RIA's shoot. I'm on my 3rd one. I'd carry it before my Kimber in a heartbeat. I like the Kimber, it's just that I've had enough jams with it not to trust it. I'd carry it before my Dan Wesson, same rationale as the Kimber. The RIA, with CM mags, go's bang every time. No perceptable "break in" period. Just "bang" every time. I cannot recall a jam with an RIA, ever, using CM mags (one or two with the ones that came with it, which I think are Mec gar?). Yep, my 3 RIAs run like a champ, always have. I can also say that about my 2 SR1911s and my Norinco. 
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:56:05 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, my 3 RIAs run like a champ, always have. I can also say that about my 2 SR1911s and my Norinco.
I'd like to shoot one of these, stock. Just to see if the hype is justified. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:56:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh come on now. I ain't military but do own quite a few 1911 type handguns and they go bang everytime. But I have never carried them dirty or in a battle, etc. I find it hard to believe a 1911 isn't a good firearm for fighting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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........... I'd never use a 1911 in combat. They belong in a trashcan. Oh come on now. I ain't military but do own quite a few 1911 type handguns and they go bang everytime. But I have never carried them dirty or in a battle, etc. I find it hard to believe a 1911 isn't a good firearm for fighting. A 1911A1 pistol made to specs will operate when dirty. However, sensible people who are carrying a firearm (any firearm) because they may have to rely on it to stay alive don't neglect it. They clean and properly lubricate it because their life may depend on it operating properly. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:57:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to ignore the 1911 hardware issues to highlight what I thought was absolutely the most interesting part of the article: I think it points out a good thing for all of us to do: Get out of our pistol comfort zones. I hear and see people who say "I only shoot X brand because Y or Z have bad triggers/bad ergonomics/don't point right/have weird recoil/are outdated old designs/were built not facing the moon on a tuesday/whatever." The fundamentals are the same. If you're not pushing yourself by learning how to shoot outside your comfort zone (be that da/sa, with a tupperware gun, or an old heavy low cap design), you're not improving as a shooter nearly as much as you could be. I've been a 1911 and Glock shooter for the large majority of my time shooting pistols. I've been trying to work hard over the last year to master da/sa style guns. It's been a fun challenge, and has helped reinforce good fundamentals to help overcome my terrible initial transitions between the first and second shots. If you haven't stepped outside your comfort zone and gotten to know a different pistol than your carry gun, you should try it out. I'm not talking 50 rounds one time before declaring it total crap on the internet, but a bare minimum of 2,000 rounds over several trips. Might even change some of your preconceived notions about other designs.  Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to ignore the 1911 hardware issues to highlight what I thought was absolutely the most interesting part of the article: After only a short retraining cycle, I quickly learned that I was able to match my performance standards using the M&P. This first rather serendipitous step made me realize that I did not need the 1911 trigger or ergonomics as a performance crutch. I think it points out a good thing for all of us to do: Get out of our pistol comfort zones. I hear and see people who say "I only shoot X brand because Y or Z have bad triggers/bad ergonomics/don't point right/have weird recoil/are outdated old designs/were built not facing the moon on a tuesday/whatever." The fundamentals are the same. If you're not pushing yourself by learning how to shoot outside your comfort zone (be that da/sa, with a tupperware gun, or an old heavy low cap design), you're not improving as a shooter nearly as much as you could be. I've been a 1911 and Glock shooter for the large majority of my time shooting pistols. I've been trying to work hard over the last year to master da/sa style guns. It's been a fun challenge, and has helped reinforce good fundamentals to help overcome my terrible initial transitions between the first and second shots. If you haven't stepped outside your comfort zone and gotten to know a different pistol than your carry gun, you should try it out. I'm not talking 50 rounds one time before declaring it total crap on the internet, but a bare minimum of 2,000 rounds over several trips. Might even change some of your preconceived notions about other designs. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:59:36 AM EDT
[#19]
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I think for mass issue 45 acp at unit level or above, M&P, Glock, FN, HK, etc. All are better options. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.............. It is......however vastly better options exist. What are a couple of other firearms that would be better in your opinion? I think for mass issue 45 acp at unit level or above, M&P, Glock, FN, HK, etc. All are better options. Interesting. Thanks for your opinion. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:59:41 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A 1911A1 pistol made to specs will operate when dirty. However, sensible people who are carrying a firearm (any firearm) because they may have to rely on it to stay alive don't neglect it. They clean and properly lubricate it because their life may depend on it operating properly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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........... I'd never use a 1911 in combat. They belong in a trashcan. Oh come on now. I ain't military but do own quite a few 1911 type handguns and they go bang everytime. But I have never carried them dirty or in a battle, etc. I find it hard to believe a 1911 isn't a good firearm for fighting. A 1911A1 pistol made to specs will operate when dirty. However, sensible people who are carrying a firearm (any firearm) because they may have to rely on it to stay alive don't neglect it. They clean and properly lubricate it because their life may depend on it operating properly. You also have to remember the specification for the original 1911 called for a weapon that had to last 5000 rounds. Back when the weapon was adopted a high round count was 1k rounds in a year. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:00:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.................. A 1911A1 pistol made to specs will operate when dirty. However, sensible people who are carrying a firearm (any firearm) because they may have to rely on it to stay alive don't neglect it. They clean and properly lubricate it because their life may depend on it operating properly. I am of the clean and lubricate group. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:02:40 AM EDT
[#22]
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................. You also have to remember the specification for the original 1911 called for a weapon that had to last 5000 rounds. Back when the weapon was adopted a high round count was 1k rounds in a year. How many rounds is the military Beretta rated for? |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:03:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What magical, evil force which prevents a current commercial manufacturer from reproducing the pistols which were isssued to the US military? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't say "military", and in the context of the article and rest of the thread (which you obviously didn't read in your quest to cherry-pick a comment), it's very obvious that the intended meaning of the statement was a current manufacture commercial firearm. What magical, evil force which prevents a current commercial manufacturer from reproducing the pistols which were isssued to the US military? Go find me one. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:06:51 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many rounds is the military Beretta rated for? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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................. You also have to remember the specification for the original 1911 called for a weapon that had to last 5000 rounds. Back when the weapon was adopted a high round count was 1k rounds in a year. How many rounds is the military Beretta rated for? 5500 rounds was the original specification. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:08:23 AM EDT
[#25]
I've never had a bad GI 1911 or A1, including the Argentine Sistemas. They all functioned perfectly with good mags and 230 grain ball. The only mods I ever did were higher profile fixed sights, and sometimes a King's Wide Grip Safety (not a beavertail.)
The "improved" guns with "Match" this or that, not so much. ETA: I've had very good luck with GI-pattern RIA's. Haven't tried any of their tricked out offerings. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:09:05 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this. i have an original kimber gold match that has been flawless. the gun is about as perfect as a 1911 can be. that said i know it's a rare example of a kimber. the only thing "lacking" on a good 1911 is capacity compared to more modern guns. Hell the first m9's we got while is was in the army were junk. i have seen glocks have issues in classes and on the range as frequently as any other design. the 1911 does need to be cleaned more frequently, but when properly maintained it's a great sidearm. it's not a gun you can give to a peasent with education on the gun and expect it to be flawless, that is the one place where glock shines. every gun has it's strengths and weakness. choose which fits your needs best. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well no shit. Kimber is named in the article as the example of failures of the 1911.... this. i have an original kimber gold match that has been flawless. the gun is about as perfect as a 1911 can be. that said i know it's a rare example of a kimber. the only thing "lacking" on a good 1911 is capacity compared to more modern guns. Hell the first m9's we got while is was in the army were junk. i have seen glocks have issues in classes and on the range as frequently as any other design. the 1911 does need to be cleaned more frequently, but when properly maintained it's a great sidearm. it's not a gun you can give to a peasent with education on the gun and expect it to be flawless, that is the one place where glock shines. every gun has it's strengths and weakness. choose which fits your needs best. That's not the only deficiency. I hold the grip safety and the thumb safety, and the fact that it is SAO against it as well. SAO makes for a sweet shooting gun and the 1911 has a sweet trigger, but I don't want grip safety, sao, thumb safety on a carry gun. Too many things to go wrong in a high stress situation. I really prefer the draw and shoot concept, where the gun stays out of your way when getting it presented and defending yourself. Seems small, but every little bit counts. That being said, if I were shopping for a 1911, I'd be looking at RIA and some other "lower end, but well made" guns. I don't care for tight tolerances, and the gun wasn't designed for them. Loose 1911's seem to work better, and that's what I want, and what I'd seek. I don't need it to be fancy, I need it to WORK. In fact, in a lot of ways, I look at "fancy "as a detraction as it replaces function in importance. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:10:43 AM EDT
[#27]
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I'd like to shoot one of these, stock. Just to see if the hype is justified. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yep, my 3 RIAs run like a champ, always have. I can also say that about my 2 SR1911s and my Norinco.
I'd like to shoot one of these, stock. Just to see if the hype is justified. It is. Mine has always run great. I recently had new sights put on it, but that's it. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:10:58 AM EDT
[#28]
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5500 rounds was the original specification. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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................. You also have to remember the specification for the original 1911 called for a weapon that had to last 5000 rounds. Back when the weapon was adopted a high round count was 1k rounds in a year. How many rounds is the military Beretta rated for? 5500 rounds was the original specification. I thought it was around that number. So I am a bit confused by your statement about 5,000 rounds for the 1911. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:12:18 AM EDT
[#29]
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I thought it was around that number. So I am a bit confused by your statement about 5,000 rounds for the 1911. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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................. You also have to remember the specification for the original 1911 called for a weapon that had to last 5000 rounds. Back when the weapon was adopted a high round count was 1k rounds in a year. How many rounds is the military Beretta rated for? 5500 rounds was the original specification. I thought it was around that number. So I am a bit confused by your statement about 5,000 rounds for the 1911. That 5000 rounds was the requirement for the original 1911s, that anything beyond that was beyond the specification. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:13:02 AM EDT
[#30]
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........... That 5000 rounds was the requirement for the original 1911s, that anything beyond that was beyond the specification. Ok, so not a bad thing. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:13:19 AM EDT
[#31]
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I thought it was around that number. So I am a bit confused by your statement about 5,000 rounds for the 1911. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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................. You also have to remember the specification for the original 1911 called for a weapon that had to last 5000 rounds. Back when the weapon was adopted a high round count was 1k rounds in a year. How many rounds is the military Beretta rated for? 5500 rounds was the original specification. I thought it was around that number. So I am a bit confused by your statement about 5,000 rounds for the 1911. Yeah, that's a really short service life.....Back when I was in the military, I'd easily shoot 5k or more a year through my personal handgun on my own time. (ammo was cheap, I had time) |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:16:54 AM EDT
[#32]
9mm ball ammo has a poor rep for stopping the threat. 45ACP ball, well, they all fall to hardball
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:17:06 AM EDT
[#33]
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Go find me one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't say "military", and in the context of the article and rest of the thread (which you obviously didn't read in your quest to cherry-pick a comment), it's very obvious that the intended meaning of the statement was a current manufacture commercial firearm. What magical, evil force which prevents a current commercial manufacturer from reproducing the pistols which were isssued to the US military? Go find me one. http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=7 |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:17:48 AM EDT
[#34]
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Yeah, that's a really short service life.....Back when I was in the military, I'd easily shoot 5k or more a year through my personal handgun on my own time. (ammo was cheap, I had time) Considering M&Ps, H&Ks, Glocks, and a few other guns have been pushed into 60k plus round count territory during endurance tests, that looks really bad. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:21:10 AM EDT
[#35]
I didn't read his comments as derogatory toward the 1911 generally - just a simple story that illustrates what he, and many others, have said for a long time. The 1911 requires a dedicated and knowledgable user. It's a gun for "gun people." Using it as a issued "fleet" gun for a police department makes about as much sense as issuing them Jaguar E-Types as patrol cars. You could do that, but why would you?
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:26:39 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you want a gun that works or a gun that is pretty and has the right "feel" for you? I like guns that work. I prefer the one that not only works, but has the highest probability of fast accurate hits for me. FOR ME, that happens to be a couple of 1911's. I also have a P220 that I can hit with and it is also dead nuts reliable. I cannot, however get be as fast and accurate with it as I am able to with my 1911's. What works for you may be different <shrugs>. Nick |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:29:57 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Do you want a gun that works or a gun that is pretty and has the right "feel" for you? I like guns that work. Ok But I want capacity too Now what ? Buy one of these. or even better yet: S-V Infinity (STI is not even in the same league...) |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:32:08 AM EDT
[#38]
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So Yam and Vickers are just lying about the continual problems 1911s have to sell other products? 1911s are great guns, and if they break a retard owns them ,it's a shitty brand or someone is lying. Sounds like the olympic arms forum Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That didn't take long
What do Hilton Yam and Larry Vickers know? As was pointed out on another board Yam is now selling M&P mods and parts, and as has been demonstrated on Outdoor TV. Vickers will pimp HK last week, Nighthawk next quarter, Daniel Defense on Thursday, and Bill Wilson when the check clears. In regard to guns, I have seen enough and listened to the bitching of users and armorers to know the world is full of shitty guns and guns that have been improved by the user or the maker until hereto for unknown problems suddenly start appearing. Sounds like the olympic arms forum No, Yam was bitching about a well know 1911 company that has a reputation for putting out shit and having some seriously spotty QC, while basically talking up the M&P, which he just so happens to Mod up and sell parts for. Larry Vickers will talk about the 1911 platform being problematic, then endorse the fuck out of the 1911 for some companies, who happening to be paying him an endorsement. There are a lot of shitty companies making the 1911, one of the shit factories was mentioned in the Yam article. As for the retards, how many clowns buy a 1911 and get the Brownell catalog and start dropping in parts with no clue as what they are doing then blame the 1911 design when it goes tits up on the range. Same as the retards who get the Wolf catalog or some Lenny Magill catalog and decides he know how to smith Glocks then put in a titanium firing pin, aftermarket barrel, a new trigger pack and some penis weight for the grip. Same problem and I have seen both in class and in pistol matches. Guns that came out if the box working fine IMPROVED BY THE OWNER to the point of uselessness. Then there are gun companies that improve a gun until it starts having problems, Glock and the railed .40s that were having unexplained jams until someone figured out the rail and mounting light might be the problem. Same for Colt and the new railed 1911 they pawned off on the USMCSOC and others, just adding a rail to the design isn't enough, you got to make sure what you are designing and building can take the stress of the new additions while functioning. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:32:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well no shit. Kimber is named in the article as the example of failures of the 1911.... That was my take. When you focus on a brand known as 'jam-o-matics', you're gonna have issues. Shitting on the entirety of the 1911 platform - because 'jam-o-matics' jam...is like shitting on all pick-up trucks because the models made by Volkswagon have problems. It just doesn't make all pick-up trucks worthless. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:33:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............ Yeah, that's a really short service life.....Back when I was in the military, I'd easily shoot 5k or more a year through my personal handgun on my own time. (ammo was cheap, I had time) By short service life are they saying "cracked frames or slides"? |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:45:24 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Considering M&Ps, H&Ks, Glocks, and a few other guns have been pushed into 60k plus round count territory during endurance tests, that looks really bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, that's a really short service life.....Back when I was in the military, I'd easily shoot 5k or more a year through my personal handgun on my own time. (ammo was cheap, I had time) Considering M&Ps, H&Ks, Glocks, and a few other guns have been pushed into 60k plus round count territory during endurance tests, that looks really bad. Recent Todd G. put 60k+ through a Springfield/Warren 1911 9mm. Actually numbers, rounds fired 64,579 , 15 stoppages, 0 malfunctions, 5 parts breakages Springfield/Warren 1911 9mm Last and Final Report #37 Todd G. stopped the test as he gauge the degraded accuracy of the gun being an indication that the barrel was shot out. His parameters being that failure of a major component ended the test, the major components being Slide, Barrel, Frame. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:45:39 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 1911A1 pistol made to specs will operate when dirty. However, sensible people who are carrying a firearm (any firearm) because they may have to rely on it to stay alive don't neglect it. They clean and properly lubricate it because their life may depend on it operating properly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: ........... I'd never use a 1911 in combat. They belong in a trashcan. Oh come on now. I ain't military but do own quite a few 1911 type handguns and they go bang everytime. But I have never carried them dirty or in a battle, etc. I find it hard to believe a 1911 isn't a good firearm for fighting. A 1911A1 pistol made to specs will operate when dirty. However, sensible people who are carrying a firearm (any firearm) because they may have to rely on it to stay alive don't neglect it. They clean and properly lubricate it because their life may depend on it operating properly. This is the thing that amuses me about GD and some firearms. The AR was designed for a professional soldier that maintains his weapon and is a fine weapon for that professional. The 1911, however, is a piece of shit because it also requires maintenance. Nick |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:49:13 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting..........I always just went with what the manufacturer said the gun was rated for. I do have 15 round mags though but they stick out of the bottom of the mag well. They do work properly though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can you use an 8 round mag in a gun rated for 7 rounds? Assuming the mag works, yeah. They've got 10 round 1911 mags that work pretty well in most guns, too. Interesting..........I always just went with what the manufacturer said the gun was rated for. I do have 15 round mags though but they stick out of the bottom of the mag well. They do work properly though. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:51:06 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.............. The Wilson 8 round magazines seem to work fine. You know, for all these DECADES I never knew this. I just went with what the manufacturer said. 
What was the 5,000 round count test by the military supposed to accomplish..........that the gun's frame or slide wouldn't crack? |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:52:09 AM EDT
[#45]
When there are 100+ year old Glocks, made by 50+ different companies, including caves in Pakistan, maintained, (if at all) with parts from 1000+ different aftermarket companies, fed from magazines from 500+ different companies, (including Chinese counterfiets), and that have been through TWO world wars -
- they wil fail as often as 1911s do now. Poor maintenenace, bad parts, abuse, neglect, and being worn out are not inherent faults of the 1911 design |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:55:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Wilson 8 round magazines seem to work fine. I did find one 8 round mag which one of my guns did not like. Had some space age, mutant follower in it. Never seen anything like it before or since. No brand name on it. It was not .45 ACP resistant |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:56:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, Yam was bitching about a well know 1911 company that has a reputation for putting out shit and having some seriously spotty QC, while basically talking up the M&P, which he just so happens to Mod up and sell parts for. Larry Vickers will talk about the 1911 platform being problematic, then endorse the fuck out of the 1911 for some companies, who happening to be paying him an endorsement. There are a lot of shitty companies making the 1911, one of the shit factories was mentioned in the Yam article. As for the retards, how many clowns buy a 1911 and get the Brownell catalog and start dropping in parts with no clue as what they are doing then blame the 1911 design when it goes tits up on the range. Same as the retards who get the Wolf catalog or some Lenny Magill catalog and decides he know how to smith Glocks then put in a titanium firing pin, aftermarket barrel, a new trigger pack and some penis weight for the grip. Same problem and I have seen both in class and in pistol matches. Guns that came out if the box working fine IMPROVED BY THE OWNER to the point of uselessness. Then there are gun companies that improve a gun until it starts having problems, Glock and the railed .40s that were having unexplained jams until someone figured out the rail and mounting light might be the problem. Same for Colt and the new railed 1911 they pawned off on the USMCSOC and others, just adding a rail to the design isn't enough, you got to make sure what you are designing and building can take the stress of the new additions while functioning. Quote HistoryQuoted: No, Yam was bitching about a well know 1911 company that has a reputation for putting out shit and having some seriously spotty QC, while basically talking up the M&P, which he just so happens to Mod up and sell parts for. Larry Vickers will talk about the 1911 platform being problematic, then endorse the fuck out of the 1911 for some companies, who happening to be paying him an endorsement. There are a lot of shitty companies making the 1911, one of the shit factories was mentioned in the Yam article. As for the retards, how many clowns buy a 1911 and get the Brownell catalog and start dropping in parts with no clue as what they are doing then blame the 1911 design when it goes tits up on the range. Same as the retards who get the Wolf catalog or some Lenny Magill catalog and decides he know how to smith Glocks then put in a titanium firing pin, aftermarket barrel, a new trigger pack and some penis weight for the grip. Same problem and I have seen both in class and in pistol matches. Guns that came out if the box working fine IMPROVED BY THE OWNER to the point of uselessness. Then there are gun companies that improve a gun until it starts having problems, Glock and the railed .40s that were having unexplained jams until someone figured out the rail and mounting light might be the problem. Same for Colt and the new railed 1911 they pawned off on the USMCSOC and others, just adding a rail to the design isn't enough, you got to make sure what you are designing and building can take the stress of the new additions while functioning. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:58:12 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a properly set-up 1911, just about any 8 round mag works. I did find one 8 round mag which one of my guns did not like. Had some space age, mutant follower in it. Never seen anything like it before or since. No brand name on it. It was not .45 ACP resistant Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Wilson 8 round magazines seem to work fine. I did find one 8 round mag which one of my guns did not like. Had some space age, mutant follower in it. Never seen anything like it before or since. No brand name on it. It was not .45 ACP resistant |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:58:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Wilson 8 round magazines seem to work fine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can you use an 8 round mag in a gun rated for 7 rounds? Assuming the mag works, yeah. They've got 10 round 1911 mags that work pretty well in most guns, too. Interesting..........I always just went with what the manufacturer said the gun was rated for. I do have 15 round mags though but they stick out of the bottom of the mag well. They do work properly though. We will see if the springs weakin out. |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 5:59:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Recent Todd G. put 60k+ through a Springfield/Warren 1911 9mm. Actually numbers, rounds fired 64,579 , 15 stoppages, 0 malfunctions, 5 parts breakages Springfield/Warren 1911 9mm Last and Final Report #37 Todd G. stopped the test as he gauge the degraded accuracy of the gun being an indication that the barrel was shot out. His parameters being that failure of a major component ended the test, the major components being Slide, Barrel, Frame. Quote HistoryQuoted: Recent Todd G. put 60k+ through a Springfield/Warren 1911 9mm. Actually numbers, rounds fired 64,579 , 15 stoppages, 0 malfunctions, 5 parts breakages Springfield/Warren 1911 9mm Last and Final Report #37 Todd G. stopped the test as he gauge the degraded accuracy of the gun being an indication that the barrel was shot out. His parameters being that failure of a major component ended the test, the major components being Slide, Barrel, Frame. |
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