tru_m4n: hi all
T0J0: hey
Stalin: sup
Churchill: hi
tru_m4n: OMG OMG OMG i got all his stuff!
tru_m4n: NUKES! HOLY **** I GOT NUKES
Stalin: d00d gimmie some plz
tru_m4n: no way i only got like a couple
Stalin: omg dont be gay gimmie nuculer secrets
T0J0: wtf is nukes?
T0J0: holy ****holy****hoylshti!!!111
*T0J0 has been eliminated.*
*The Allied team has won the game!*

Quoted: Vito113, FYI..Bockscar never took flak over the primary, they couldn't see it because it was so cloudy and thats what they went to Nagasaki.  At least that is what the navigator from Bockscar said last night on the History Channel.

Bockscar had a malfunctioning fuel pump and were unable to utilize the 600 gallons of fuel in that tank. They made three passes over the primary target but because of smoke and cloud/haze cover they were unable to see the target. They were low on fuel at this point and immediately diverted to Nagasaki. AFAIK they were never subjected to any flak.

www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/abomb/mp07.htm#n

On the morning of August 9th, 1945, at about 7:50 A.M., Japanese time, an air raid alert was sounded in Nagasaki, but the "All clear" signal was given at 8:30. When only two B-29 superfortresses were sighted at 10:53 the Japanese apparently assumed that the planes were only on reconnaissance and no further alarm was given. A few moments later, at 11:00 o'clock, the observation B-29 dropped instruments attached to three parachutes and at 11:02 the other plane released the atomic bomb.

"Operation Downfall"

Now THAT is a name for a military operation!

Not "Iraqi Freedom"

Not "Enduring Freedom"

Not "Philadelphia Freedom"

Fucking



"INFINITE JUSTICE" had such an AWESOME ring to it before we went PC.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have to hand it to the US, they really understood the concept of Total War. ANdy There was incredible hatred for the Japanese sneak attack on Pearl by both the U.S. Military and the civilian population. I can still see my father pounding on the kitchen table fifty years after the attack. What a crying fucking shame we can't seem to muster that kind of hatred and rage today, after an attack upon our own soil and civilians which was even deadlier than Pearl. We may have understood Total War 60 years ago, but we've bloody well forgotten it now.

I don't understand it either. My FIL was a U.S. Marine and saw combat in many of the major battles in the Pacific. My SO's father joined the Navy at 17 and served aboard an aircraft carrier during WWII. He also fought in many of the major Pacific battles against the Japanese. His ship was hit by a Kamikaze attack during one of the battles.

They were not violent men after the war and just married, got jobs, bought houses and started families. After the attack on Pearl they both would have killed every man, woman and child in Japan had they been given the chance.  They never questioned what needed to be done. They just went and did it.

Concerning the article posted by Tarazoo....


Sweet Jesus. "Bloodbath" doesn't even come close. The OCEAN would have run red!

Thank God for a pair of B-29's and their cargo.

Quoted: Quoted: Vito113, FYI..Bockscar never took flak over the primary, they couldn't see it because it was so cloudy and thats what they went to Nagasaki.  At least that is what the navigator from Bockscar said last night on the History Channel.   Not what I have read in a number published accounts… Also found this reference on the web… "Staff Sergeant DeHart, in the tail-gun position, reported flak "wide, but altitude is perfect." Fighters were detected on radar; Staff Sgt. Gallagher thought he saw fighters through the haze. http://history1900s.about.com/library/prm/blbombthatended4.htm

Here is another reference to flak over Kokura.

www.uwosh.edu/home_pages/faculty_staff/earns/olivi.html

Based on earlier weather reports, the crew of Bockscar flew to Kokura fully expecting to drop its bomb on the city and return quickly to Okinawa. Upon arrival, however, the military arsenal at Kokura was obscured by industrial haze and smoke from a nearby fire. The bombardier had specific orders not to drop the bomb unless he could see the target. Three times Sweeney passed overhead, but without success. With the fuel supply now an even greater concern and enemy flak becoming a problem, Sweeney took Bockscar on the most direct route to Nagasaki.

In honor of the 60th anniversary the Air Force should have fueled up the Enola Gay and flown it over Hiroshima at  the exact time of day.  No announcement or PR crap, just a lone B29 flying over the City.  People would have shit and run for cover.

Quoted: Careful reading of the available papers now reveals that the Navy was just about to go to war with McArthur over Operation Downfall.  Nimitz recommended to King that the invasion be cancelled for reasons that should be obvious in light of the losses incurred at Okinawa.  Nimitz felt that the recent ongoing intense campaign of total destruction of the inter-island lines of communication had reduced the flow of  commodities and food stuffs to a trickle.  War production was nearly at a standstill and the population was about to starve and very likely collapse completely...something that the Emperor feared greatly and that new Ultra releases have revealed in detail.

So what was Chester like in person?

This is the link of the site where I got that article from.  Besides the article, there are also maps of the invasion that make Normandy look like playing in a sandbox.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8141/downfall.html

It was one of the greatest acts of human decency of that century.

Hooray for the end of the war in the Pacific.  Hooray for every bullet and bomb that made that happen.

I'm not likely to celebrate with a minute of silence, I'm likely to celebrate with a firecracker.

Light black cat.  Kaboom.  Multiply by 100,000,000.  God Bless America, and may the dead from both sides rest in peace.

Jim

"Before we are through with them, the Japanese language will only be spoken in hell."

We need a little more of this attitude today...

Edit:  And thank God for the crews of the Enola Gay and Bockscar.  They saved a ton of lives.  I STILL cheer everytime I see a movie, news story, or archive footage of Fat Man or Little Boy exploding.  Is that wrong?  I surely don't think so.

One of my grandfathers was a doctor serving in the Pacific during the war. He treated many victims of Japanese torture. He said the two bombs were the best thing the Americans did. He also said that he didn't know any Americans who wanted to invade Japan.

So why do we have to hear about all these Japanese "victims"? Screw them, they were given ample opportunity to surrender. They shouldn't have started something that they had no hope of finishing.

Quoted: Quoted: In honor of the 60th anniversary the Air Force should have fueled up the Enola Gay and flown it over Hiroshima at  the exact time of day.  No announcement or PR crap, just a lone B29 flying over the City.  People would have shit and run for cover. Do you remember the political SHTF when the Confederate Air Force flew their B-29  FIFI over their field and lit off a huge pyrotechnic fireball in commemoration of the Hiroshima & Nagasaki Bombings?  The Jap government went absolutely fucking nuts!!!!! Andy

The Confederate Air Force has gotten all PC and changed their name to The Commemorative Air Force

Quoted: If you look at the overall picture there's no doubt that the bomb saved more lives than it took.It obviousely saved us from having to invade,and the resulting hundreds of thousands casualtys.In addition I just finished a book that said in the spring of '46 there was a total failure of the rice harvest in Japan(weather ?).Without the Americans there to supply food there would have been massive starvation.There's no doubt Harry Truman made the right call. If there had been no Pearl Harbour there would have been no Hiroshima.

It wasn't just Japan that had problems with their food crops at the time. European food production was significantly down for several years after WW2 ended and the UK didn't end it's food rationing until the very late 40's. My mother can remember helping her mother prepare packages of food to send to the UK (from Australia) around '47 - '48 because rationing was still in place.

As for the use of the bombs, I have no doubt at all that using them killed fewer people than an all out invasion or a blockade of Japan, but I did some digging on the topic of the bombs during the last week and the number of senior US military leaders from WW2 who are on public record saying they thought the use of the bombs unneccesary is very suprising.

Eisenhower (on record objecting to using the bombs before they were used).
USN Admirals Leahy, Nimitz, Halsey, King (all of the USN 5 star admirals of WW2) and Lewis. USAF Generals Arnold, Spaatz, LeMay and Chennault (Commander of the "Flying Tigers"), US Army Brigadier Generals Clarke and Bonners. General Marshall stated that the use of the bombs was a political decision, not a military one but does not appear to have said outright that they didn't need to be used at all, only that in his opinion the decision to use them was made for political reasons, not military necessity.

Herbert Hoover's diary has an entry of a conversation with MacArthur:

Former President Herbert Hoover met with MacArthur alone for several hours on a tour of the Pacific in early May 1946. His diary states: I told MacArthur of my memorandum of mid-May 1945 to Truman, that peace could be had with Japan by which our major objectives would be accomplished. MacArthur said that was correct and that we would have avoided all of the losses, the Atomic bomb, and the entry of Russia into Manchuria.

 

Quoted: "Before we are through with them, the Japanese language will only be spoken in hell." We need a little more of this attitude today...

No, a LOT more.

Quoted: Quoted: In honor of the 60th anniversary the Air Force should have fueled up the Enola Gay and flown it over Hiroshima at  the exact time of day.  No announcement or PR crap, just a lone B29 flying over the City.  People would have shit and run for cover. Do you remember the political SHTF when the Confederate Air Force flew their B-29  FIFI over their field and lit off a huge pyrotechnic fireball in commemoration of the Hiroshima & Nagasaki Bombings?  The Jap government went absolutely fucking nuts!!!!! Andy

I didn't know that!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In honor of the 60th anniversary the Air Force should have fueled up the Enola Gay and flown it over Hiroshima at  the exact time of day.  No announcement or PR crap, just a lone B29 flying over the City.  People would have shit and run for cover. Do you remember the political SHTF when the Confederate Air Force flew their B-29  FIFI over their field and lit off a huge pyrotechnic fireball in commemoration of the Hiroshima & Nagasaki Bombings?  The Jap government went absolutely fucking nuts!!!!! Andy I didn't know that!

AWSOME!!! AHGHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have to hand it to the US, they really understood the concept of Total War. ANdy There was incredible hatred for the Japanese sneak attack on Pearl by both the U.S. Military and the civilian population. I can still see my father pounding on the kitchen table fifty years after the attack. What a crying fucking shame we can't seem to muster that kind of hatred and rage today, after an attack upon our own soil and civilians which was even deadlier than Pearl. We may have understood Total War 60 years ago, but we've bloody well forgotten it now. I, too, would love to know what book this is. Sounds like one hell of a rivetting read! ETA: Woops! Saw it above! Thanks!

The reason is that we are now infected with "Blame America First" liberals who are still totally pissed off that the Soviet Union has died and turned to ashes.  They see US as the true evil in the world...the one true impediment to their socialist nirvana.

What bullshit!  If NYC was fucking NUKED, and thousands of the bed-wetter libs were smoked, those assholes would STILL blame the US.

Quoted: Quoted: Careful reading of the available papers now reveals that the Navy was just about to go to war with McArthur over Operation Downfall.  Nimitz recommended to King that the invasion be cancelled for reasons that should be obvious in light of the losses incurred at Okinawa.  Nimitz felt that the recent ongoing intense campaign of total destruction of the inter-island lines of communication had reduced the flow of  commodities and food stuffs to a trickle.  War production was nearly at a standstill and the population was about to starve and very likely collapse completely...something that the Emperor feared greatly and that new Ultra releases have revealed in detail. So what was Chester like in person?

So...junior...are we looking forward to being in hack during our next really sweet liberty port...say Haifa, Nice...or maybe Pattaya Beach?

Keep it up...!!!

Hundreds of thousands of Allied troops were saved by the Bomb...and millions of Japs were too.

In September 1945, my father was in Denver CO teaching gunnery school.  Before that he was a waist gunner on a B-24.  He completed his 30 missions over Europe with the 8th AF in early 1944 and returned hom to marry my mother on New Years Eve 1944.  When the war ended, my father had orders to a B-29 group then forming up in Kansas.  He was on his way to bomb Japan in late 1945 had the war continued.  

I was born nine months and four days after the surrender in Tokyo Bay.
 
They were both very happy to see it end.

It never ceases to amaze me how much I learn from this site. Everything from history to the best brand of washer and dryer to buy and even a little about AR-15s.

It does help to have a bunch of old guys, like LWilde, that have lived through most of history to provide perspective.

Throw me in hack, it was worth it.

Seriously, this has been fascinating. Now I have a book to go buy.

I'd like to take the time to say Thank You President Truman             ( I realize he's deceased )
I'm sure that he agonized over the decision beforehand
And afterwards probably had some regret or sleepless nights after seeing the Power of the Weapons which we brought to bear on the Japanese

But unlike the SPINELESS politicians that we have in office today ( Both Democrat and Republican ) that talk a good talk but refuse to act or those that are constantly committing acts of sedition Harry Truman made a tough decision to use whatever was necessary to defeat our enemies

All I can think about is the line from Aliens,  "You want some of this?"

Yep, to quote Adm Halsey somebody with some balls, "Before we are through with them, the Japanese language insert religion here will only be spoken practiced in hell."…

Quoted: Here is some data I posted from that book a while back about the planning for the Invasion…… "I'm reading abook on Operation Downfall and the figures and weapons available are mind boggling! This REALLY was going to be Armageddon!!! Andy Just some of the firepower available…… CW weapons Stockpiles 1945… 5,500,000 shells, 1,000,000+ bombs, 100,000+ spray tanks, 43,000 land mines 7,500 tons of gas bombs on Luzon, 16,000 on Okinawa, 8,500 tons afloat. Plans to spray jap crops in 1946 with 2-4-D using 1,500 aircraft on 25 sorties… and destroy 60% of jap rice production Napalm… 'many' millions of gallons available… BW weapons Anthrax plant with a capacity of filling 4lb bombs at the rate of 500,000 PER MONTH! 1,000,000 Anthrax bomblets availablle for use on Kyushu in November and 2 -3,000,000 Anthrax bomblets for Honshu in March 1946 Nuclear Weapons 15 Bombs to support the initial invasion in November 1945, with a production rate of 7 per month another 28 could have been ready for Honshu in March 1946. Attack plans for Honshu May 1946… For a period of 180 days the beachheads would be bombarded with air and naval units and JB-2's (V1's built in the US) and the beacheads to a distance of 5,000 yds inland sprayed with chemical defoliants. 216 specially designed T-92 240mm self propelled howitzers were to be landed in the initial assault to blast away defences with 360lb HE shells. Aircraft available from late 1945… @ 2,000 heavy bombers, B-29's and RAF Lancasters… 300-400 medium bombers, B-24's MANY thousands of fighters and light bombers Bomb loads on TACTICAL targets… September 1945 100,000 tons January 1946 170,000 tons March 1946 220,000 tons JB-2 flying bombs (German V1's built in the US) Monthly production of 5,000 per month by fall 1945. General Arnold planned to bombard Japan with 500 JB-2 missiles PER DAY by the start of 1946! Missiles to be ground launched and from specially modified LST and jeep carriers"