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Posted: 7/25/2014 7:58:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryThis is the thing that I'm seeing. "Fucktard!" you guys say, to the woman who went home drunk to a stranger's home, and ended up being pinned down and forced against her will. "She shouldn't go to stranger's homes" you guys say. Okay, so she's a 'fucktard" for being foolish. "Not much sympathy" some of you say, for this fucktard of a chick, because she placed herself in that perilous, risky situation. So the same applies to guys who bang drunk chicks. You KNOW the risks, you're complaining about them here. So any of you who bang a drunk chick, knowing the risks, can expect to be called a "fucktard" and don't expect much sympathy either if you get accused of rape. You knew the risks beforehand. It doesn't mean the chick didn't lie, Doesn't make it fair if she knew what she was doing, but regrets it in the morning and accuses you. You KNEW the risks. Just like the fucktard of a girl who went to the guy's place after getting drunk, and got pinned down and raped. Both fucktards, limited sympathy for her (from some of you, at least) so limited sympathy for him . . . Fucktard + fucktard = no victimization |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:00:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Honestly I just don't get it. If I was female I would train in defense constantly and ALWAYS carry some form of weapon. The statistics make it seem like rapists are crawling around the streets like rats. Then again I have a feeling that most of these 'rapes' are just some jerk taking advantage of a girl who had a few too many drinks at the college party or something.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:00:28 AM EDT
[#3]
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Fucktard + fucktard = no victimization Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the thing that I'm seeing. "Fucktard!" you guys say, to the woman who went home drunk to a stranger's home, and ended up being pinned down and forced against her will. "She shouldn't go to stranger's homes" you guys say. Okay, so she's a 'fucktard" for being foolish. "Not much sympathy" some of you say, for this fucktard of a chick, because she placed herself in that perilous, risky situation. So the same applies to guys who bang drunk chicks. You KNOW the risks, you're complaining about them here. So any of you who bang a drunk chick, knowing the risks, can expect to be called a "fucktard" and don't expect much sympathy either if you get accused of rape. You knew the risks beforehand. It doesn't mean the chick didn't lie, Doesn't make it fair if she knew what she was doing, but regrets it in the morning and accuses you. You KNEW the risks. Just like the fucktard of a girl who went to the guy's place after getting drunk, and got pinned down and raped. Both fucktards, limited sympathy for her (from some of you, at least) so limited sympathy for him . . . Fucktard + fucktard = no victimization Doing something stupid doesn't absolve the other party's responsibility. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:00:35 AM EDT
[#4]
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When I started college some 20+ years ago, it was "1 in 7 women will be raped by the time they graduate school." When I finished grad school, it had become 1 in 5. I'm not surprised, it's now 1 in 3. I wonder if college orientations this fall, people will hear, "Ladies, everyone of you will be raped. It's part of the college experience." 
Progressives. Progressively turning everyone into a victim for purposes of empowerment! Or, just maybe, the culture is changing and women don't feel that they are the ones who should be ashamed of being sexually assaulted. I also have known several women who have been raped. Including my twin sister and her teacher who were gang raped in the teachers classroom after school hours. Never reported and I didn't find out about until after my sister had died in a car accident. I was told by one of the attackers, who found Jesus and came to me to apologize. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:00:50 AM EDT
[#5]
I'm so not a raper!
But seriously - most women I know who have been "raped" didn't exactly scream and fight the guy off....not trying to justify it at all but women should not send mixed signals. I've been with plenty of girls who told me we shouldn't do this and we need to stop....yet they keep going anyways pushing the envelope until we are having sex. Never once did I think I was raping her...if she flat out tells me "STOP!" then yes I"ll jump off quickly! |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:02:18 AM EDT
[#6]
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I have sympathy for rape victims. I also have sympathy for people accused of rape who didn't do anything where a gal wasn't fully reciprocating. You don't seem to. You seem to accept that rape charges might get made, and that a guy should know better. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Find a quote where I say "serves him right." I'm just saying, if there is limited sympathy (aka "fucktard") for a woman foolish enough to put herself in a risky situation, then that same level of limited sympathy will be there for the man who is also foolish. And you're avoiding my question—how many of you HERE are so young and with a not-yet-fully-formed brain, and can't avoid putting himself in such a risky situation? I get the impression that there are guys here who have been banging drunk chicks, and will continue to do so. I don't get the feeling that they intend to stop doing this risky thing—they just want to bitch about the risks. (If I'm wrong, then I'll wait to have that corrected and be informed that NO guy here is so foolish as to bang a drunk chick anymore.) I have sympathy for rape victims. I also have sympathy for people accused of rape who didn't do anything where a gal wasn't fully reciprocating. You don't seem to. You seem to accept that rape charges might get made, and that a guy should know better. I'm just trying to be practical and find a solution. We have lots of bitching about evil women and how they are lying bitches and the solution to this is—don't bang drunk chicks. One guy is asking, well how is he going to find chicks to bang if he can't bang the drunk ones?  (I'm kind of paraphrasing.  )
I don't think it's right if a guy who has sex with a woman who is clearly willing (and not so drunk that she doesn't know what she's doing) is accused of rape later. It's not fair and it's wrong. Just like if a girl goes to the house of a guy she doesn't know, and gets pinned down and forced to have sex against her will. She was dumb to go to his place, but it wasn't right what was done to her. But! This is GD and the girl is called a "fucktard," fair enough, then so is the guy who does something risky. I have a huge problem with the double standard where "drunk guy" has to have perfect judgement, but "drunk girl" is assumed to have no say, even when she is saying plenty.
Until that double standard goes away, you will have the problem you see in this thread, where people quickly dismiss possibly very real rape claims due to the absurdity surrounding the issue. There is some absurdity, to be sure. But the question I still have is, how do the guys HERE avoid putting themselves in such a risky situation? Is every guy here avoiding sex with the drunk girls? It doesn't sound like it, but I wait for correction on that. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:02:46 AM EDT
[#7]
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I think you underestimate how important getting laid is for guys Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Honestly, if a man is willing to risk jail time for a little casual sex, in my estimation his priorities are a little skewed. Guys aren't slaves to their dicks. I promise that the big head CAN control the little one. Just a personal opinion, mind you. I think you underestimate how important getting laid is for guys I reiterate that if anyone allows casual sex to control them to that extent, they need to re-examine their priorities. "I can't help myself" is an excuse for toddlers, addicts, and the insane. Not for grown people in possession of a sound mind. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:03:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Rape of truth
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:03:25 AM EDT
[#9]
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I'm so not a raper! But seriously - most women I know who have been "raped" didn't exactly scream and fight the guy off....not trying to justify it at all but women should not send mixed signals. I've been with plenty of girls who told me we shouldn't do this and we need to stop....yet they keep going anyways pushing the envelope until we are having sex. Never once did I think I was raping her...if she flat out tells me "STOP!" then yes I"ll jump off quickly! According to some people, you are a rapist. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:03:48 AM EDT
[#10]
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I reiterate that if anyone allows casual sex to control them to that extent, they need to re-examine their priorities. "I can't help myself" is an excuse for toddlers, addicts, and the insane. Not for grown people in possession of a sound mind. Just another example of why men and women don't understand each other, then..... |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:04:33 AM EDT
[#11]
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Now that is genuine "rape culture." That is clearly predatory behaviro, with a clear intent from the get go. You mention long term partners, but there are people - lots of people - out there who would say a man should not have sex with his wife if she's had anything to drink, or it's rape. That is the absurdity side. Why it is so hard to draw a clear line between rational and absurd, is anybody's guess. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have simply stated over and over (really guys, keep up) that drunk sex ain't worth the possible jail time. If ya'll disagree, have at it. I don't care if ya'll stop posting for 3-7 years. I agree completely. Excepting long term partners that know and are comfortable with each other where it's a mutual thing, I think it's outright fucking pathetic that some guys want or even need to get a chick drunk to get laid. Nevermind it's not worth it if she changes her mind later when she's sober. When Tom Leykis was on for a time here in the Phoenix area, he had an episode where he asked guys to phone in with their favorite "liquid panty remover," ie which alcoholic drink works best for them to get chicks in the sack with them. While I knew the guy was a douchebag and a raging liberal, he had some interesting shows. Most of the good/legit advice he had for men was common sense stuff. However, the whole thing with figuring out the most effective drink to impair a chick's judgement or lower her inhibitions so she'll let you bang her was so absurd and pathetic that I turned it off and never listened to him again. Now that is genuine "rape culture." That is clearly predatory behaviro, with a clear intent from the get go. You mention long term partners, but there are people - lots of people - out there who would say a man should not have sex with his wife if she's had anything to drink, or it's rape. That is the absurdity side. Why it is so hard to draw a clear line between rational and absurd, is anybody's guess. Yes like most issues both sides need a little more common sense and rationality/logic injected into their lines of thinking. There are clear points to be made on both sides of a subject, but as you mention people will go full retard when it comes to some facets of it. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:04:39 AM EDT
[#12]
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This type thread is one where reality must be told...and that is that some women lie. NEVER assume that a woman is telling the truth when she makes an allegation against a man. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't disagree - but this entire thread has veered into that absurdity by assuming that everyone the OP is talking about is a false-rape claimant. His observations that he knows too many girls who have been raped is not an admission of drunken-regret stories, nor is it evidence of a single one, but here we are all squawking about it as if that's what his comment was meant to serve. That's the GD I'm deriding. This type thread is one where reality must be told...and that is that some women lie. NEVER assume that a woman is telling the truth when she makes an allegation against a man. Never assume that she's lying either. One is as absurd as the other. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:04:40 AM EDT
[#13]
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Yeah, I really like the part where it's insinuated I'm a child molester. 
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I'm going to be an insensitive asshole right now. "Raped" or got drunk and regretted have sex the next day? Todd Akins, ARFcommer since Dec. 2005 Rape & molestation, imposition and just general lurid & inappropriate behavior is EXTREMELY common for women to have experienced....I know this is GD and every rape is just regretful sex, but I've worked counseling long enough to know, and seen it in my friends and family who are not talking about a frat party gone wrong, to understand that men have some serious fucking issues with diddling girls they should not be diddling. Some of us know it, and some of us want to downplay it....but the evidence is the generation of whacked, trauma-stricken young women that end up in the clinics like I worked at because their step dad, Todd, wanted to jack off on them while they were asleep. Then, if they're really lucky they try to shed that horror and live a normal life but end up seeking out hyper-stimulation, being freaks between the sheets but unable to calm that tempest inside them, and wrecking their relationship to an ARFcommer who now believes all women are whores and sluts. Oy. Well said. Yeah, I really like the part where it's insinuated I'm a child molester.
I'll acknowledge that the insinuation was not needed. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:06:37 AM EDT
[#14]
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I'm just trying to be practical and find a solution. We have lots of bitching about evil women and how they are lying bitches and the solution to this is—don't bang drunk chicks. One guy is asking, well how is he going to find chicks to bang if he can't bang the drunk ones? (I'm kind of paraphrasing. )
I don't think it's right if a guy who has sex with a woman who is clearly willing (and not so drunk that she doesn't know what she's doing) is accused of rape later. It's not fair and it's wrong. Just like if a girl goes to the house of a guy she doesn't know, and gets pinned down and forced to have sex against her will. She was dumb to go to his place, but it wasn't right what was done to her. But! This is GD and the girl is called a "fucktard," fair enough, then so is the guy who does something risky. There is some absurdity, to be sure. But the question I still have is, how do the guys HERE avoid putting themselves in such a risky situation? Is every guy here avoiding sex with the drunk girls? It doesn't sound like it, but I wait for correction on that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Find a quote where I say "serves him right." I'm just saying, if there is limited sympathy (aka "fucktard") for a woman foolish enough to put herself in a risky situation, then that same level of limited sympathy will be there for the man who is also foolish. And you're avoiding my question—how many of you HERE are so young and with a not-yet-fully-formed brain, and can't avoid putting himself in such a risky situation? I get the impression that there are guys here who have been banging drunk chicks, and will continue to do so. I don't get the feeling that they intend to stop doing this risky thing—they just want to bitch about the risks. (If I'm wrong, then I'll wait to have that corrected and be informed that NO guy here is so foolish as to bang a drunk chick anymore.) I have sympathy for rape victims. I also have sympathy for people accused of rape who didn't do anything where a gal wasn't fully reciprocating. You don't seem to. You seem to accept that rape charges might get made, and that a guy should know better. I'm just trying to be practical and find a solution. We have lots of bitching about evil women and how they are lying bitches and the solution to this is—don't bang drunk chicks. One guy is asking, well how is he going to find chicks to bang if he can't bang the drunk ones? (I'm kind of paraphrasing. )
I don't think it's right if a guy who has sex with a woman who is clearly willing (and not so drunk that she doesn't know what she's doing) is accused of rape later. It's not fair and it's wrong. Just like if a girl goes to the house of a guy she doesn't know, and gets pinned down and forced to have sex against her will. She was dumb to go to his place, but it wasn't right what was done to her. But! This is GD and the girl is called a "fucktard," fair enough, then so is the guy who does something risky. I have a huge problem with the double standard where "drunk guy" has to have perfect judgement, but "drunk girl" is assumed to have no say, even when she is saying plenty.
Until that double standard goes away, you will have the problem you see in this thread, where people quickly dismiss possibly very real rape claims due to the absurdity surrounding the issue. There is some absurdity, to be sure. But the question I still have is, how do the guys HERE avoid putting themselves in such a risky situation? Is every guy here avoiding sex with the drunk girls? It doesn't sound like it, but I wait for correction on that. One is a real risk, the other is made up by society, and is the one being discussed here. The fancy watch and suit guy counterpart was already raised in this thread. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:06:57 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:07:28 AM EDT
[#16]
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I'm going to be an insensitive asshole right now. "Raped" or got drunk and regretted have sex the next day? I know a number of girls who were "raped." While this isn't universally true of all rape cases, the "cases" I know all solidly fit into the second category of "I got drunk and initiated, but he should have known better!" |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:08:30 AM EDT
[#17]
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I reiterate that if anyone allows casual sex to control them to that extent, they need to re-examine their priorities. "I can't help myself" is an excuse for toddlers, addicts, and the insane. Not for grown people in possession of a sound mind. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Honestly, if a man is willing to risk jail time for a little casual sex, in my estimation his priorities are a little skewed. Guys aren't slaves to their dicks. I promise that the big head CAN control the little one. Just a personal opinion, mind you. I think you underestimate how important getting laid is for guys I reiterate that if anyone allows casual sex to control them to that extent, they need to re-examine their priorities. "I can't help myself" is an excuse for toddlers, addicts, and the insane. Not for grown people in possession of a sound mind. "I had a few drinks, so my screaming of 'fuck my brains out' that the nighbors down the street could hear really shouldn't count as consent" is perfectly rational, though? |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:08:31 AM EDT
[#18]
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Since none of the female posters have answered my question. I ask again. If I am drunk and the girl is drunk, who is responsible? After all, if the girl can't give consent, neither can I. Right? If a guy goes to a bar in his favorite Ed Hardy(lol) shirt, 6 sizes to small, he is just asking to be raped. Like a girl that is wearing a micro skirt walking down a dark alley? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So the same applies to guys who bang drunk chicks. A stone sober dude who fucks a sloppy drunk chick is indeed a dumbass. Thing is, rarely does it work that way. Generally both parties are generously lubricated by alcohol. Indeed, they're often deliberately getting blitzed in an effort to lower inhibitions and get some action...because, shock and surprise, chicks get horny and want to fuck too. So wading into this cabal of booze, youthful ignorance, cell phone cameras, and not-yet-fully-formed brains to determine issues of consent is not the straightforward task people believe it to be. I'm sure it isn't, and I wouldn't be the one to decide what is and what isn't. But you guys here, many of you guys here anyway, KNOW the risks, know what you're facing. Playmoreminds asks, and I ask as well, is it worth the risk? How many of you here are so young that you don't yet have a fully formed brain? Don't you think you can make a conscious decision to not put yourself in a situation that is that risky? Since none of the female posters have answered my question. I ask again. If I am drunk and the girl is drunk, who is responsible? After all, if the girl can't give consent, neither can I. Right? If a guy goes to a bar in his favorite Ed Hardy(lol) shirt, 6 sizes to small, he is just asking to be raped. Like a girl that is wearing a micro skirt walking down a dark alley? I don't know the legal definition of rape when both parties are drunk. Since you guys are all bitching (and I concede, not without some foundation) that the law messed up in this regard, maybe you'd better be extra vigilant when you go out drinking. The deck is stacked against you, and it's unfair. But then again, it's physically unfair for many women, because they are more at risk of being physically overpowered than men are. So there's that. I personally don't drink at all. I was raised by parents who didn't drink. Getting drunk is not some life-sustaining activity that no one can possibly avoid. I doubt that I'll ever find myself in a situation where I get raped while I am drunk, because I have no intention of getting drunk. It's one less thing I have to worry about. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:09:59 AM EDT
[#19]
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A lot of douchebags will also try to get women as drunk as possible for exactly this reason I have even see the bartenders pour some extra strong drinks for their buddies to give to girls. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm going to be an insensitive asshole right now. "Raped" or got drunk and regretted have sex the next day? First sentence in first post nails it. He's got a point. Lots of women get drunk and feel like that had been taken advantage of. A lot of douchebags will also try to get women as drunk as possible for exactly this reason I have even see the bartenders pour some extra strong drinks for their buddies to give to girls. A guy I dated in college tried that...he didn't realize I'd had 2 chili dogs for dinner before we went out. I threw up all over his room, and he got NOTHING out of that bargain. The chili probably saved me that time. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:10:39 AM EDT
[#20]
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 Quite possibly the dumbest comment I've ever read in GD and that is saying something. Apparently you have never been seen by anyone as someone they could confide in, if anybody needs to see a professional....Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of the women I know close enough for them to tell me, I would guess 1/3 have been raped at some point. You can see how it still affects them and pisses me off to no end. WTF is wrong with this world? If I have daughters, they will start learning how to shoot at an early age. Do you steer the conversations toward rape? That, in and of itself, probably warrants a conversation between you and a professional. Quite possibly the dumbest comment I've ever read in GD and that is saying something. Apparently you have never been seen by anyone as someone they could confide in, if anybody needs to see a professional....Do you get friend zoned a lot? Do you wear a fedora? |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:12:23 AM EDT
[#21]
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Just another example of why men and women don't understand each other, then..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I reiterate that if anyone allows casual sex to control them to that extent, they need to re-examine their priorities. "I can't help myself" is an excuse for toddlers, addicts, and the insane. Not for grown people in possession of a sound mind. Just another example of why men and women don't understand each other, then..... Actually she's correct. Sex addicts who allow 'getting laid' to dictate their lives really need to rethink their priorities. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:13:46 AM EDT
[#22]
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I don't know the legal definition of rape when both parties are drunk. Since you guys are all bitching (and I concede, not without some foundation) that the law messed up in this regard, maybe you'd better be extra vigilant when you go out drinking. The deck is stacked against you, and it's unfair. But then again, it's physically unfair for many women, because they are more at risk of being physically overpowered then men are. So there's that. I personally don't drink at all. I was raised by parents who didn't drink. Getting drunk is not some life-sustaining activity that no one can possibly avoid. I doubt that I'll ever find myself in a situation where I get raped while I am drunk, because I have no intention of getting drunk. It's one less thing I have to worry about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So the same applies to guys who bang drunk chicks. A stone sober dude who fucks a sloppy drunk chick is indeed a dumbass. Thing is, rarely does it work that way. Generally both parties are generously lubricated by alcohol. Indeed, they're often deliberately getting blitzed in an effort to lower inhibitions and get some action...because, shock and surprise, chicks get horny and want to fuck too. So wading into this cabal of booze, youthful ignorance, cell phone cameras, and not-yet-fully-formed brains to determine issues of consent is not the straightforward task people believe it to be. I'm sure it isn't, and I wouldn't be the one to decide what is and what isn't. But you guys here, many of you guys here anyway, KNOW the risks, know what you're facing. Playmoreminds asks, and I ask as well, is it worth the risk? How many of you here are so young that you don't yet have a fully formed brain? Don't you think you can make a conscious decision to not put yourself in a situation that is that risky? Since none of the female posters have answered my question. I ask again. If I am drunk and the girl is drunk, who is responsible? After all, if the girl can't give consent, neither can I. Right? If a guy goes to a bar in his favorite Ed Hardy(lol) shirt, 6 sizes to small, he is just asking to be raped. Like a girl that is wearing a micro skirt walking down a dark alley? I don't know the legal definition of rape when both parties are drunk. Since you guys are all bitching (and I concede, not without some foundation) that the law messed up in this regard, maybe you'd better be extra vigilant when you go out drinking. The deck is stacked against you, and it's unfair. But then again, it's physically unfair for many women, because they are more at risk of being physically overpowered then men are. So there's that. I personally don't drink at all. I was raised by parents who didn't drink. Getting drunk is not some life-sustaining activity that no one can possibly avoid. I doubt that I'll ever find myself in a situation where I get raped while I am drunk, because I have no intention of getting drunk. It's one less thing I have to worry about. As a guy, I would agree with you going out drinking and trying to have sex with some girl who is drunk is a foolish and risky game. Doesn't mean he is a rapist, but it is elevated risk of being accused of one. I'd recommend avoiding the practice, for this and numerous other reasons. However that doesn't solve the problem, as there is shortage of false claims from sober people as well. Hell in some cases not even abstaining from sex will save you from false claims. Unsubstantiated claims are taken far too serious. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:14:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guilty until proven innocent. if you don't support this concept, you support "rape culture." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If that's what this were all about, it would be simple. NOBODY is denying that there are predators out there. What we can't fathom is how a guy who meets a gal who gets really frisky, is obligated to give her a breathalyzer (and document she was below some arbitrary BAC) if she expresses a desire to fuck. Are they Democrats? What methodology do you suggest? How about, we judge the crime based on whether or not the guy actually did something wrong? Take advantage of a woman unable to resist and barely able to stay conscious? Rape. Engage in a mutually reciprocating act of drunken monkey love? Not rape. Guilty until proven innocent. if you don't support this concept, you support "rape culture." I don't even know what rape culture is, darling. I am simply telling you that it's in your best interest not to poke the bear. You wanna do it and say, "it's my right to do it!" you are in the same class as the women who think that being able to walk alone at night in a high crime area is their right. I think it's worth mentioning that men on this site repeatedly say, "life's not fair...women aren't the same as men and therefore can't be equal..." yet, when a situation acknowledges that fact by slighting the man in favor of the women, the knitting circle implodes. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:14:14 AM EDT
[#24]
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Actually, I have had a similar experience with women, except it was they were molested as a child. This. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:15:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guys want to get laid. A good many of us don't care to get entangled in relationships anymore to meet that goal That's a pretty powerful drive Where would you tell these guys they should get their needs fulfilled? Prostitutions illegal most places Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's my point...because several of you do not get it. You're being handed a revolver with one bullet in it. Odds are, if you put it in your mouth and pull the trigger, you won't die. But WHY would you put the damn thing in your mouth? For the thrill of not dying? Stupid.... Guys want to get laid. A good many of us don't care to get entangled in relationships anymore to meet that goal That's a pretty powerful drive Where would you tell these guys they should get their needs fulfilled? Prostitutions illegal most places If you are driven by your wants, ignoring your needs, you will find trouble. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:15:53 AM EDT
[#26]
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One is a real risk, the other is made up by society, and is the one being discussed here. The fancy watch and suit guy counterpart was already raised in this thread. Is the time in jail something that is "made up by society," or does the person actually spend time in jail? I think risking time in jail is a REAL risk and should be treated as such. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:16:17 AM EDT
[#27]
About 30% of the men I know, guys I know well enough to know they aren't lying, have been falsely accused if rape or other sexual misconduct by someone who thought the accusations would help there career. About 20% were arrested, charged, and it went all the way to a jury returning a verdict.
All were found "not guilty" (otherwise I'd be posting this from a non-extraditing country), but it still caused them and there families significant financial hardship. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:16:45 AM EDT
[#28]
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Since none of the female posters have answered my question. I ask again. If I am drunk and the girl is drunk, who is responsible? After all, if the girl can't give consent, neither can I. Right? If a guy goes to a bar in his favorite Ed Hardy(lol) shirt, 6 sizes to small, he is just asking to be raped. Like a girl that is wearing a micro skirt walking down a dark alley? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So the same applies to guys who bang drunk chicks. A stone sober dude who fucks a sloppy drunk chick is indeed a dumbass. Thing is, rarely does it work that way. Generally both parties are generously lubricated by alcohol. Indeed, they're often deliberately getting blitzed in an effort to lower inhibitions and get some action...because, shock and surprise, chicks get horny and want to fuck too. So wading into this cabal of booze, youthful ignorance, cell phone cameras, and not-yet-fully-formed brains to determine issues of consent is not the straightforward task people believe it to be. I'm sure it isn't, and I wouldn't be the one to decide what is and what isn't. But you guys here, many of you guys here anyway, KNOW the risks, know what you're facing. Playmoreminds asks, and I ask as well, is it worth the risk? How many of you here are so young that you don't yet have a fully formed brain? Don't you think you can make a conscious decision to not put yourself in a situation that is that risky? Since none of the female posters have answered my question. I ask again. If I am drunk and the girl is drunk, who is responsible? After all, if the girl can't give consent, neither can I. Right? If a guy goes to a bar in his favorite Ed Hardy(lol) shirt, 6 sizes to small, he is just asking to be raped. Like a girl that is wearing a micro skirt walking down a dark alley? Gray area, and I'm not sure I know the right answer for every situation. Instinct says the more active participant, but without video, that is easily a he said/she said situation. If neither remembers, maybe a no fault sort of thing? I dunno, nor do I think there is really an answer acceptable to everyone. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:17:09 AM EDT
[#29]
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Never assume that she's lying either. One is as absurd as the other. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't disagree - but this entire thread has veered into that absurdity by assuming that everyone the OP is talking about is a false-rape claimant. His observations that he knows too many girls who have been raped is not an admission of drunken-regret stories, nor is it evidence of a single one, but here we are all squawking about it as if that's what his comment was meant to serve. That's the GD I'm deriding. This type thread is one where reality must be told...and that is that some women lie. NEVER assume that a woman is telling the truth when she makes an allegation against a man. Never assume that she's lying either. One is as absurd as the other. You will note that I never stated to assume that she is lying......even though some do. My view: Just do not assume that her statements are factual without clear proof and things are OK For people not familiar with the Duke lacrosse team case, read this Lying piece of crap woman and how she screwed over members of the Duke lacrosse team. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:19:10 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did I miss that? You aren't suggesting husbands can't rape wives, are you? Because, woahh, you will get an army of people attacking you for even insinuating that. Which, your post seems to do. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Stupid is telling a guy that if he thinks he might have a chance of getting laid that night, to make sure his date / girlfriend doesn't have a single drink, otherwise he's being a "rapist." You still haven't answered my question as to whether you've ever had sex after a few drinks. How did I miss that? You aren't suggesting husbands can't rape wives, are you? Because, woahh, you will get an army of people attacking you for even insinuating that. Which, your post seems to do. At least it does in my bed. Can't speak for the shitty marriages. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:19:45 AM EDT
[#31]
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All you sensitive men...so sweet. I don't even know what rape culture is, darling. I am simply telling you that it's in your best interest not to poke the bear. You wanna do it and say, "it's my right to do it!" you are in the same class as the women who think that being able to walk alone at night in a high crime area is their right. I think it's worth mentioning that men on this site repeatedly say, "life's not fair...women aren't the same as men and therefore can't be equal..." yet, when a situation acknowledges that fact by slighting the man in favor of the women, the knitting circle implodes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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OK...tell me then: how do we pick the predators out from the guys with the afore mentioned shitty game? Are they inkies? Are they Democrats? What methodology do you suggest? How about, we judge the crime based on whether or not the guy actually did something wrong? Take advantage of a woman unable to resist and barely able to stay conscious? Rape. Engage in a mutually reciprocating act of drunken monkey love? Not rape. Guilty until proven innocent. if you don't support this concept, you support "rape culture." I am simply telling you that it's in your best interest not to poke the bear. You wanna do it and say, "it's my right to do it!" you are in the same class as the women who think that being able to walk alone at night in a high crime area is their right. I think it's worth mentioning that men on this site repeatedly say, "life's not fair...women aren't the same as men and therefore can't be equal..." yet, when a situation acknowledges that fact by slighting the man in favor of the women, the knitting circle implodes. There is an apparent absolute inability to have empathy for people falsly accused of rape by many - if not the majority - of women. I guess they don't ever see themselves as being in that case, or that something they did in their youth could have caused such a thing. So, it remains only an academic issue. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:20:08 AM EDT
[#32]
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Doing something stupid doesn't absolve the other party's responsibility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is the thing that I'm seeing. "Fucktard!" you guys say, to the woman who went home drunk to a stranger's home, and ended up being pinned down and forced against her will. "She shouldn't go to stranger's homes" you guys say. Okay, so she's a 'fucktard" for being foolish. "Not much sympathy" some of you say, for this fucktard of a chick, because she placed herself in that perilous, risky situation. So the same applies to guys who bang drunk chicks. You KNOW the risks, you're complaining about them here. So any of you who bang a drunk chick, knowing the risks, can expect to be called a "fucktard" and don't expect much sympathy either if you get accused of rape. You knew the risks beforehand. It doesn't mean the chick didn't lie, Doesn't make it fair if she knew what she was doing, but regrets it in the morning and accuses you. You KNEW the risks. Just like the fucktard of a girl who went to the guy's place after getting drunk, and got pinned down and raped. Both fucktards, limited sympathy for her (from some of you, at least) so limited sympathy for him . . . Fucktard + fucktard = no victimization Doing something stupid doesn't absolve the other party's responsibility. Some people get off on doing risky things. I have no sympathy for them when things don't work out as they expect. Stupid games, stupid prize and all that. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:20:44 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:I dunno if either sex is: why don't you ask the many bartenders and restaurants who've been sued for over-serving? Maybe its not rape culture after all! Maybe its Alcohol Assault culture. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:21:40 AM EDT
[#34]
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Or, just maybe, the culture is changing and women don't feel that they are the ones who should be ashamed of being sexually assaulted. I also have known several women who have been raped. Including my twin sister and her teacher who were gang raped in the teachers classroom after school hours. Never reported and I didn't find out about until after my sister had died in a car accident. I was told by one of the attackers, who found Jesus and came to me to apologize. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When I started college some 20+ years ago, it was "1 in 7 women will be raped by the time they graduate school." When I finished grad school, it had become 1 in 5. I'm not surprised, it's now 1 in 3. I wonder if college orientations this fall, people will hear, "Ladies, everyone of you will be raped. It's part of the college experience."
Progressives. Progressively turning everyone into a victim for purposes of empowerment! Or, just maybe, the culture is changing and women don't feel that they are the ones who should be ashamed of being sexually assaulted. I also have known several women who have been raped. Including my twin sister and her teacher who were gang raped in the teachers classroom after school hours. Never reported and I didn't find out about until after my sister had died in a car accident. I was told by one of the attackers, who found Jesus and came to me to apologize. Right. You figured it all out and even included anecdotal evidence.
Listen, I'm not denying that rape happens. It does happen, a lot, but the concept has been reshaped by some strange minded people. You have a group who believe that all penis in vagina sex is rape, you have those who think that regretting having had sex (drunk or sober) with someone means that you were raped, include those people who equate miscued men making a physical pass as rape (i.e., two people making out, he touches her boob, she says no, he apologizes, and the make out session continues), add it all up and then you might get those kinds of statistics. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:21:40 AM EDT
[#35]
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What you wand and what you need are very different things.If you are driven by your wants, ignoring your needs, you will find trouble. OK, guys need to get laid Happy now? |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:21:58 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What can I say...I'm an electronic message pack rat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And clear your IMs, dammit. I wanna buy you a drink...  What can I say...I'm an electronic message pack rat. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:22:29 AM EDT
[#37]
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Is the time in jail something that is "made up by society," or does the person actually spend time in jail? I think risking time in jail is a REAL risk and should be treated as such. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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One is a real risk, the other is made up by society, and is the one being discussed here. The fancy watch and suit guy counterpart was already raised in this thread. Is the time in jail something that is "made up by society," or does the person actually spend time in jail? I think risking time in jail is a REAL risk and should be treated as such. The time in jail is indeed "made up by society" - society puts people in jail. Society does not rape women. People who rape women are actually PUT IN JAIL by society. Night and day, here. One, we have the means as a society to control. The other, we can only punish after the fact. Most rational people don't want to see people put in jail who did nothing wrong. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:23:11 AM EDT
[#38]
ARF nailed the regret "rape" as being a big part of it. I think our current culture of glamorizing victims has a part in it.
Did anyone else point out how many have been beaten/physically abused by an ex? IME 90% of Women going through a divorce claim they were/are being physically abused. But it never gets reported to the cops or becomes a part of the divorce. It's just what they tell their friends/family to feel better about the divorce. Sad because it detracts from the real victims getting help they need. Victims of real serious crimes don't usually walk around advertising it to everyone that will listen. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:23:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I tried explaining that to my step-daughter. In one ear and out the other. Didn't even slow up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Precisely. The contention that women...especially young women...know there are certain risks in life is not at all reflective of reality, at least not the one I'm familiar with. I constantly see young women who leave themselves vulnerable doing things that are objectively just fucking dumb. Example: Young woman a couple of years ago off at college had a habit of jogging at ridiculously late hours. Worse, she accepted a ride from some dude she didn't know on a few occasions. On the last occasion the friendly old dude in a rusted out Jeep at 2 AM tried to kidnap and rape her. IMAGINE THAT. Kids believe shit won't happen to them, and that plays out in the way they leave themselves vulnerable to being victimized. Dudes do the same fucking thing. There are a shitload of street criminals who make a good living by robbing dudes in college. Further, I'll say that even stating that there are risks a young woman should be aware of brings about an often completely hostile reaction. "A woman should be able to jog at 2 AM without getting RAPED!!!" ...as if that's in any way, shape, or form fucking relevant or useful. I tried explaining that to my step-daughter. In one ear and out the other. Didn't even slow up. Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. Thanks for agreeing.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:24:58 AM EDT
[#40]
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OK, guys need to get laid Happy now? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What you wand and what you need are very different things.If you are driven by your wants, ignoring your needs, you will find trouble. OK, guys need to get laid Happy now? Actually they don't. You're sounding like that guy in cali who went on a rampage because those evil girls wouldn't sleep with him. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:26:13 AM EDT
[#41]
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I have met many (say 1 out of 3) that were sexually assaulted by a relative or close family friend. Probably more like 8 out of 10 that were battered by a SO. Not sure if it was a pity ploy or we are just filled with jerks (I am leaning to the latter) Do you work in a prison? |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:26:16 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why it is so hard to draw a clear line between rational and absurd, is anybody's guess. Did we not establish this back in '07?
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:26:32 AM EDT
[#43]
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Of the women I know close enough for them to tell me, I would guess 1/3 have been raped at some point. You can see how it still affects them and pisses me off to no end. WTF is wrong with this world? If I have daughters, they will start learning how to shoot at an early age. I think it's more than that personally. Maybe 20% of the planet actually embraces the idea that women and children are people and not property. For the 20% of us that live with the idea that they're people, we have several hundred thousand years of raping minors and women under our genetic belt. With a higher standard of education we can understand why it's wrong, but clouded by drugs, alcohol, or being the victim of assault ones self plenty if people will still pull the trigger so to speak. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:27:07 AM EDT
[#44]
As a LEO I am shocked when I am dispatched to a "rape" and it winds up being a legitimate sexual assault using physical force. I have the utmost compassion for those who genuinely are,they are just a minority.
Most are girls who got drunk and regret it the next morning or girls who got caught by their boyfriends fucking somebody else and scream "Rape!!" real loud. Most girls who want to tell everyone they meet about their "Rape" are full of shit and playing the sympathy card. Again it's sad but true. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:27:19 AM EDT
[#45]
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As a guy, I would agree with you going out drinking and trying to have sex with some girl who is drunk is a foolish and risky game. Doesn't mean he is a rapist, but it is elevated risk of being accused of one. I'd recommend avoiding the practice, for this and numerous other reasons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Originally Posted by Renata
I don't know the legal definition of rape when both parties are drunk. Since you guys are all bitching (and I concede, not without some foundation) that the law messed up in this regard, maybe you'd better be extra vigilant when you go out drinking. The deck is stacked against you, and it's unfair. But then again, it's physically unfair for many women, because they are more at risk of being physically overpowered then men are. So there's that. I personally don't drink at all. I was raised by parents who didn't drink. Getting drunk is not some life-sustaining activity that no one can possibly avoid. I doubt that I'll ever find myself in a situation where I get raped while I am drunk, because I have no intention of getting drunk. It's one less thing I have to worry about. As a guy, I would agree with you going out drinking and trying to have sex with some girl who is drunk is a foolish and risky game. Doesn't mean he is a rapist, but it is elevated risk of being accused of one. I'd recommend avoiding the practice, for this and numerous other reasons. Agree with all of this. This has been my point. Avoid! Avoid this and you minimize the risks! However that doesn't solve the problem, as there is shortage of false claims from sober people as well.
Hell in some cases not even abstaining from sex will save you from false claims. Unsubstantiated claims are taken far too serious. I agree, it's shameful that this is a problem and that there are women who will make up a rape claim out of whole cloth. That's a serious issue and I don't know what men can do to avoid it, because it seems like a guy can not even be in a room with a woman, and she can get it into her head to make the accusation. But, not to minimize this, this is a wicked world, and this wickedness manifests itself in many ways. Making up a rape accusation out of whole cloth is one example.
I think the concept of DRUNKEN rape is getting more traction here because there IS a legal definition that says that a woman cannot give consent when impaired. Since the lines can get blurred (how drunk was she? Was he drunk too?) then the smart thing is for guys to be careful and not even put themselves in the situation in the first place. Some guys seem unwilling to do this. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:27:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's not a mod in the military forum, which isn't secret at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You cant put him on ignore... He's a mod in the super secret military forum. He's not a mod in the military forum, which isn't secret at all. I wouldn't anyway---Because as a female member of that not-so secret forum, my skin's pretty thick.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:28:45 AM EDT
[#47]
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How about, we judge the crime based on whether or not the guy actually did something wrong? Take advantage of a woman unable to resist and barely able to stay conscious? Rape. Engage in a mutually reciprocating act of drunken monkey love? Not rape. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If that's what this were all about, it would be simple. NOBODY is denying that there are predators out there. What we can't fathom is how a guy who meets a gal who gets really frisky, is obligated to give her a breathalyzer (and document she was below some arbitrary BAC) if she expresses a desire to fuck. Are they Democrats? What methodology do you suggest? How about, we judge the crime based on whether or not the guy actually did something wrong? Take advantage of a woman unable to resist and barely able to stay conscious? Rape. Engage in a mutually reciprocating act of drunken monkey love? Not rape. But there's no victim in the last one, and we just can't have that in this day and age. TXL |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:29:21 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently, your dick doesn't work the same way mine does. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:Men cannot be FORCED to get a boner. Apparently, your dick doesn't work the same way mine does.  |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:30:08 AM EDT
[#49]
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I'm going to be an insensitive asshole right now. "Raped" or got drunk and regretted have sex the next day? I have to buy you a beer the next time I see you...
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:32:18 AM EDT
[#50]
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The time in jail is indeed "made up by society" - society puts people in jail. Society does not rape women. People who rape women are actually PUT IN JAIL by society. Night and day, here. One, we have the means as a society to control. The other, we can only punish after the fact. Most rational people don't want to see people put in jail who did nothing wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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One is a real risk, the other is made up by society, and is the one being discussed here. The fancy watch and suit guy counterpart was already raised in this thread. Is the time in jail something that is "made up by society," or does the person actually spend time in jail? I think risking time in jail is a REAL risk and should be treated as such. The time in jail is indeed "made up by society" - society puts people in jail. Society does not rape women. People who rape women are actually PUT IN JAIL by society. Night and day, here. One, we have the means as a society to control. The other, we can only punish after the fact. Most rational people don't want to see people put in jail who did nothing wrong. Well, until we get that all sorted out, we still have the risk. The risk is real. So the question is, are guys still going to keep banging drunk chicks, then bitching because it's risky to do so? Or are they going to decide that it's not wise to bang drunk chicks? Which is more important? To be innocent but still in jail, or to be more prudent, maybe with a few less notches on their bedpost, but not in jail? |
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