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Posted: 10/27/2014 2:44:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, the Third Reich, well known for the gulag. History! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And the atrocities of the Third Reich (to which I assume you're in part referring) had very little, if anything, to do with religion. Yes, the Third Reich, well known for the gulag. History! "to which I assume you're IN PART referring" The Third Reich, well known for their Secret Police and death squads English! |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 2:47:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"to which I assume you're IN PART referring" The Third Reich, well known for their Secret Police and death squads English! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And the atrocities of the Third Reich (to which I assume you're in part referring) had very little, if anything, to do with religion. Yes, the Third Reich, well known for the gulag. History! "to which I assume you're IN PART referring" The Third Reich, well known for their Secret Police and death squads English! 
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Posted: 10/27/2014 2:55:36 AM EDT
[#3]
I'll concede that the mentally uplifting and generally positive aspect of prayer or giving your problems a place to go can most definitely have a healing effect. As can yoga, meditation, painting, charitable work and chanting, to name a few. To whit, I'll concede that this woman's prayer may have had some slight impact on her recovery, as the above mentioned things can sometimes do for cancer patients and other people facing their demise. A small impact in the grand scheme of the overwhelmingly awesome medical care she received.
What I can't concede is that this woman thinks her god, the one who inflicted her with Ebola, reached on down and plucked it out of her simply because she asked nicely and said some Hail Marys. That's sorta looney. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:05:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "to which I assume you're IN PART referring" The Third Reich, well known for their Secret Police and death squads English! Thats not how English works. You said "And the atrocities of the Third Reich (to which I assume you're in part referring)". If I said "A fruit, its round, and orange in color" and you said "An apple (to which I assume you're in part referring.)". You would be incorrect. I was not at all referring to apples or Nazis.
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:12:24 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which is, ultimately, wholly irrelevant to the point you'd like up my ass. They didn't kill those people in the name of atheism, as the flip side of the coin does. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Except I have never mocked anyone for having faith EVER, oddly though, I have been called retarded and compared to the Taliban simply for no believing there is a good. do you believe that opinion is the opinion of the majority of Christians.....or maybe that of a troll? I see plenty of myth, sky fairy, sadistic God , invisible sky wizard...etc...etc...so understand...some of the atheists here are just as guilty as the ones they are accusing. Important to realize, though, is that it doesn't have to be the opinion of the majority to have an impact. And while the more belligerent atheists may throw out name calling and condescension, nobody has ever driven a car bomb into a crowded market place, strapped SVIEDs to children, or murdered abortion doctors because of a lack of belief in something. atheist led governments have killed over 100 million in the 20th century alone...so shove that argument up your ass. Which is, ultimately, wholly irrelevant to the point you'd like up my ass. They didn't kill those people in the name of atheism, as the flip side of the coin does. bullshit...if Christians have to own the crimes of those committed crimes in the name of God....you get to own all the crimes committed by atheists...in the name of state. and I still think you're a retread. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:13:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Secular governments may have (and may continue to) rallied their subjects toward similar unspeakable acts, but "not believing" hasn't been a motivator. Atheism isn't preached in temples to millions in hopes that they'll take up arms to defend its core ideas (of which, there are none). Its not preached from temples, because its temple is the statehouse or soapbox. "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo." "Religion is one of the forms of spiritual oppression which everywhere weighs down heavily upon the masses of the people, over burdened by their perpetual work for others, by want and isolation. Impotence of the exploited classes in their struggle against the exploiters just as inevitably gives rise to the belief in a better life after death as impotence of the savage in his battle with nature gives rise to belief in gods, devils, miracles, and the like. Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven. Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man." Millions have been killed for the specific, stated purpose of setting them free from religion. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:16:20 AM EDT
[#7]
nametaken158: You lose credibility when you don't acknowledge what Rusted Ace and gwitness said in the above two posts is correct.
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:21:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: bullshit...if Christians have to own the crimes of those committed crimes in the name of God....you get to own all the crimes committed by atheists...in the name of state. and I still think you're a retread. Yep, almost all Christian "crimes" can be attributed to secular motivations as well. The Pope called for a crusade in part because he was tired of bored Normans fucking up the Papal States, and to consolidate the Latin churches secular power in the East. The Spanish Inquisition was in large part a securing of the newly formed Spanish state from internal disruptions of Moors. The 30 years war was more Princes trying to consolidate secular power by proclaiming themselves protestant or catholic than a true religious fight. Cortes wanted sweet gold. Etc. Etc. If we discount communists killing in the specific name of atheism, because they also had secular motives, we can discount all "crimes" of Christianity. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:23:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
bullshit...if Christians have to own the crimes of those committed crimes in the name of God....you get to own all the crimes committed by atheists...in the name of state. and I still think you're a retread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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do you believe that opinion is the opinion of the majority of Christians.....or maybe that of a troll? I see plenty of myth, sky fairy, sadistic God , invisible sky wizard...etc...etc...so understand...some of the atheists here are just as guilty as the ones they are accusing. Important to realize, though, is that it doesn't have to be the opinion of the majority to have an impact. And while the more belligerent atheists may throw out name calling and condescension, nobody has ever driven a car bomb into a crowded market place, strapped SVIEDs to children, or murdered abortion doctors because of a lack of belief in something. atheist led governments have killed over 100 million in the 20th century alone...so shove that argument up your ass. Which is, ultimately, wholly irrelevant to the point you'd like up my ass. They didn't kill those people in the name of atheism, as the flip side of the coin does. bullshit...if Christians have to own the crimes of those committed crimes in the name of God....you get to own all the crimes committed by atheists...in the name of state. and I still think you're a retread. What kind of sense does that make? Crimes in the name of the state likely (but not necessarily) have nothing to do with religion, and therefore aren't germane to a discussion on crimes committed in the name of (or against) religion. If a white southern racist beats his white wife to death during an argument one night, do we attribute his crime to racism? Simply because a nation is secular does not mean they are acting on behalf of their secularism....which is precisely what my point was. I likewise wouldn't hold religious nations accountable for atrocities committed for reasons outside of religion (at least so far as this discussion goes...obviously in the grand scheme of things, they should be held equally accountable for all crimes). You won't see me arguing that Saddam's invasion of Kuwait is the result of Muslim extremism. But much violence and suffering throughout history HAS been perpetrated in the name of religion. There are, conversely, very few (I can think of none, but I'm sure that's not the case) cases of violence and suffering being committed in the name of lack of religion. My argument isn't and never was that secular people and nations can't commit atrocities. It was only that they aren't compelled to do so by their secularism, as religious people and nations often ARE compelled by their religion. And a retread of what, may I ask? Shoes? Tires? |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:24:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
nametaken158: You lose credibility when you don't acknowledge what Rusted Ace and gwitness said in the above two posts is correct. What is it, exactly, that I'm ignoring? It takes time to type responses, particularly while engaged in other things. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:24:59 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is it, exactly, that I'm ignoring? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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nametaken158: You lose credibility when you don't acknowledge what Rusted Ace and gwitness said in the above two posts is correct. What is it, exactly, that I'm ignoring? The USSR, for example, murdered millions of people because they embraced religion. They selectively and purposefully murdered priests, etc. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:34:24 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its not preached from temples, because its temple is the statehouse or soapbox. "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo." "Religion is one of the forms of spiritual oppression which everywhere weighs down heavily upon the masses of the people, over burdened by their perpetual work for others, by want and isolation. Impotence of the exploited classes in their struggle against the exploiters just as inevitably gives rise to the belief in a better life after death as impotence of the savage in his battle with nature gives rise to belief in gods, devils, miracles, and the like. Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven. Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man." Millions have been killed for the specific, stated purpose of setting them free from religion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Secular governments may have (and may continue to) rallied their subjects toward similar unspeakable acts, but "not believing" hasn't been a motivator. Atheism isn't preached in temples to millions in hopes that they'll take up arms to defend its core ideas (of which, there are none). Its not preached from temples, because its temple is the statehouse or soapbox. "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo." "Religion is one of the forms of spiritual oppression which everywhere weighs down heavily upon the masses of the people, over burdened by their perpetual work for others, by want and isolation. Impotence of the exploited classes in their struggle against the exploiters just as inevitably gives rise to the belief in a better life after death as impotence of the savage in his battle with nature gives rise to belief in gods, devils, miracles, and the like. Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven. Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man." Millions have been killed for the specific, stated purpose of setting them free from religion. My last post where I said I can think of no examples stands corrected...while the underlying motivations were political (as the underlying motivations of many religiously inspired acts are as well), I'd agree that the Soviet effort to actively remove religion and punish the religious would count as a very dark example of atrocity carried out in the name of secularism. But still, my claim remains valid. The scales are tipped heavily over the course of human history in favor of repression and violence in the name of religion, and certainly are at present. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:34:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The USSR, for example, murdered millions of people because they embraced religion. They selectively and purposefully murdered priests, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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nametaken158: You lose credibility when you don't acknowledge what Rusted Ace and gwitness said in the above two posts is correct. What is it, exactly, that I'm ignoring? The USSR, for example, murdered millions of people because they embraced religion. They selectively and purposefully murdered priests, etc. Valid. See above. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:39:59 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, almost all Christian "crimes" can be attributed to secular motivations as well. The Pope called for a crusade in part because he was tired of bored Normans fucking up the Papal States, and to consolidate the Latin churches secular power in the East. The Spanish Inquisition was in large part a securing of the newly formed Spanish state from internal disruptions of Moors. The 30 years war was more Princes trying to consolidate secular power by proclaiming themselves protestant or catholic than a true religious fight. Cortes wanted sweet gold. Etc. Etc. If we discount communists killing in the specific name of atheism, because they also had secular motives, we can discount all "crimes" of Christianity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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bullshit...if Christians have to own the crimes of those committed crimes in the name of God....you get to own all the crimes committed by atheists...in the name of state. and I still think you're a retread. Yep, almost all Christian "crimes" can be attributed to secular motivations as well. The Pope called for a crusade in part because he was tired of bored Normans fucking up the Papal States, and to consolidate the Latin churches secular power in the East. The Spanish Inquisition was in large part a securing of the newly formed Spanish state from internal disruptions of Moors. The 30 years war was more Princes trying to consolidate secular power by proclaiming themselves protestant or catholic than a true religious fight. Cortes wanted sweet gold. Etc. Etc. If we discount communists killing in the specific name of atheism, because they also had secular motives, we can discount all "crimes" of Christianity. I acknowledged that here: Quoted:
Which isn't to suggest that there aren't deeper root causes to conflicts that are fed by religious extremism, too...there almost universally are. Religion alone is rarely the sole aspect responsible for the atrocities carried out in its name. But it IS the weapon by which those atrocities are made possible. It's the motivating force strong enough to compel people to acts of suicide in its name. And it has throughout history been bastardized to compel millions to violence. In that sense--in its capacity to persuade people into any action imaginable in its name--it stands almost entirely alone in this world. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:40:37 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............... Valid. See above. 
You might consider Mao also before you think the scales are tipped so heavily towards religion atrocities versus atheist atrocities. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:40:51 AM EDT
[#16]
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I know plenty of atheists, none bat an eye about things like this. I think Christians would be brokenhearted to know how little Atheists think about anything they do, one way or another. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:43:01 AM EDT
[#17]
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I think Christians would be brokenhearted to know how little Atheists think about anything they do, one way or another. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I know plenty of atheists, none bat an eye about things like this. I think Christians would be brokenhearted to know how little Atheists think about anything they do, one way or another. Some atheists are virulent in their trashing of anything religious. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:48:04 AM EDT
[#18]
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The "my belief only or you're evil" kind of Christians are just as retarded. Well said. 
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:52:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You might consider Mao also before you think the scales are tipped so heavily towards religion atrocities versus atheist atrocities. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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............... Valid. See above.
You might consider Mao also before you think the scales are tipped so heavily towards religion atrocities versus atheist atrocities. Perhaps my claim and my perception are biased by the current state of the world, where it's unarguably the case. And in terms of sheer number of people, the two camps may be on a more even footing...but persecution in the name of religion has occurred for thousands of years across nearly every continent in a world whose total population was, at a time, less than that of just the USSR's. So while no less tragic because of their singular occurrences, I think there's an important distinction between a few (mass) instances of oppression in heavily populated areas in the name of rooting out religion and a systemic, millennia old tendency to move populations to violence through religion. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:54:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:The scales are tipped heavily over the course of human history in favor of repression and violence in the name of religion, and certainly are at present. Communism has killed an estimated 100 million people in its short existence in the name of the godless state. Its going to be hard to find anything but natural causes that has killed more people in human history.
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:57:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.................. Perhaps my claim and my perception are biased by the current state of the world, where it's unarguably the case. And in terms of sheer number of people, the two camps may be on a more even footing...but persecution in the name of religion has occurred for thousands of years across nearly every continent in a world whose total population was, at a time, less than that of just the USSR's. So while no less tragic because of their singular occurrences, I think there's an important distinction between a few (mass) instances of oppression in heavily populated areas in the name of rooting out religion and a systemic, millennia old tendency to move populations to violence through religion. Radical Jihadists go a LONG WAY in proving your point..........I do admit that. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 3:59:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Communism has killed an estimated 100 million people in its short existence in the name of the godless state. Its going to be hard to find anything but natural causes that has killed more people in human history. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:The scales are tipped heavily over the course of human history in favor of repression and violence in the name of religion, and certainly are at present. Communism has killed an estimated 100 million people in its short existence in the name of the godless state. Its going to be hard to find anything but natural causes that has killed more people in human history. It's killed close to 100 million people in the name of the State, which is godless. An important distinction. Though as has been pointed out, and as I've acknowledged being in error about, a portion of those crimes have been committed in the name of removing religion. And I condemn those acts every bit as virulently as I do the daily acts of religiously inspired violence. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 4:01:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Lunch time. Thanks for keeping it relatively civil.
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Posted: 10/27/2014 8:05:20 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, almost all Christian "crimes" can be attributed to secular motivations as well. The Pope called for a crusade in part because he was tired of bored Normans fucking up the Papal States, and to consolidate the Latin churches secular power in the East. The Spanish Inquisition was in large part a securing of the newly formed Spanish state from internal disruptions of Moors. The 30 years war was more Princes trying to consolidate secular power by proclaiming themselves protestant or catholic than a true religious fight. Cortes wanted sweet gold. Etc. Etc. If we discount communists killing in the specific name of atheism, because they also had secular motives, we can discount all "crimes" of Christianity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
bullshit...if Christians have to own the crimes of those committed crimes in the name of God....you get to own all the crimes committed by atheists...in the name of state. and I still think you're a retread. Yep, almost all Christian "crimes" can be attributed to secular motivations as well. The Pope called for a crusade in part because he was tired of bored Normans fucking up the Papal States, and to consolidate the Latin churches secular power in the East. The Spanish Inquisition was in large part a securing of the newly formed Spanish state from internal disruptions of Moors. The 30 years war was more Princes trying to consolidate secular power by proclaiming themselves protestant or catholic than a true religious fight. Cortes wanted sweet gold. Etc. Etc. If we discount communists killing in the specific name of atheism, because they also had secular motives, we can discount all "crimes" of Christianity. [golfclap] Quoted:
bullshit...if Christians have to own the crimes of those committed crimes in the name of God....you get to own all the crimes committed by atheists...in the name of state. and I still think you're a retread. I think he's a retread too. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 11:15:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[golfclap] I think he's a retread too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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bullshit...if Christians have to own the crimes of those committed crimes in the name of God....you get to own all the crimes committed by atheists...in the name of state. and I still think you're a retread. Yep, almost all Christian "crimes" can be attributed to secular motivations as well. The Pope called for a crusade in part because he was tired of bored Normans fucking up the Papal States, and to consolidate the Latin churches secular power in the East. The Spanish Inquisition was in large part a securing of the newly formed Spanish state from internal disruptions of Moors. The 30 years war was more Princes trying to consolidate secular power by proclaiming themselves protestant or catholic than a true religious fight. Cortes wanted sweet gold. Etc. Etc. If we discount communists killing in the specific name of atheism, because they also had secular motives, we can discount all "crimes" of Christianity. [golfclap] Quoted:
bullshit...if Christians have to own the crimes of those committed crimes in the name of God....you get to own all the crimes committed by atheists...in the name of state. and I still think you're a retread. I think he's a retread too. his posting style is familiar.....just can't quite put my finger on it. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 11:27:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Dumb bimbo. God gets all of the credit and none of the blame. I guess he just loved her more than those silly africans
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Posted: 10/27/2014 11:37:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's killed close to 100 million people in the name of the State, which is godless. An important distinction. Though as has been pointed out, and as I've acknowledged being in error about, a portion of those crimes have been committed in the name of removing religion. And I condemn those acts every bit as virulently as I do the daily acts of religiously inspired violence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:The scales are tipped heavily over the course of human history in favor of repression and violence in the name of religion, and certainly are at present. Communism has killed an estimated 100 million people in its short existence in the name of the godless state. Its going to be hard to find anything but natural causes that has killed more people in human history. It's killed close to 100 million people in the name of the State, which is godless. An important distinction. Though as has been pointed out, and as I've acknowledged being in error about, a portion of those crimes have been committed in the name of removing religion. And I condemn those acts every bit as virulently as I do the daily acts of religiously inspired violence. Not just godless, but attempting to stamp out God at all costs Or we could go the other direction about morals/atheists/and how I can be good without God and so on and so forth |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 11:39:38 AM EDT
[#28]
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Dumb bimbo. God gets all of the credit and none of the blame. I guess he just loved her more than those silly africans That's not what she said.....your user name is quite apt. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 11:40:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know plenty of atheists, none bat an eye about things like this. this |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 11:48:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are the American version of the Taliban Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Atheists are fucking retards.... |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 11:51:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Also, I think prayer gives some people hope...something to hang on to.
Just like placebo treatments do. Anyone that believes prayer can help them shouldn't be discouraged from praying, as long as it is only a supplement to actual medical treatment. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 11:57:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, I think prayer gives some people hope...something to hang on to. Just like placebo treatments do. Anyone that believes prayer can help them shouldn't be discouraged from praying, as long as it is only a supplement to actual medical treatment. Says the poster who jumps at every chance to discredit those exact beliefs |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:09:03 PM EDT
[#33]
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That's not what she said.....your user name is quite apt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dumb bimbo. God gets all of the credit and none of the blame. I guess he just loved her more than those silly africans That's not what she said.....your user name is quite apt. It's just another example of butthurt! 
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:09:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Communism has killed an estimated 100 million people in its short existence in the name of the godless state. Its going to be hard to find anything but natural causes that has killed more people in human history. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:The scales are tipped heavily over the course of human history in favor of repression and violence in the name of religion, and certainly are at present. Communism has killed an estimated 100 million people in its short existence in the name of the godless state. Its going to be hard to find anything but natural causes that has killed more people in human history. Just got back to this trainwreck of an argument..... So, to clarify, are we now equating communism to atheism? As in, they are by default, the same thing? 
Just want I make sure I understand where this discussion is going. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:13:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it's stupid for anyone to hate on her for it. I've always wondered though, why do people always praise God when they get over an illness / injury / someone they care about survives; but we never hear of anyone cursing him when he doesn't come through? Is it that "God works in mysterious ways" thing? I'm sure a lot of those Africans that died from it also prayed very hard to God. Why weren't they saved? Something that I often ask Christians about. Christians are very quick to praise God in the good times, but never praise him when times are not so good. The early Christians suffered terribly and were killed often. Even today, in many countries, Christians are martyred. They are beaten, burned, stolen from, and derided for trusting Christ. In America, Christians are often tricked into believing false doctrines, such as the prosperity doctrine. This destructive heresy misleads many believers, having their ears tickled. God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases. Will you be healed? Perhaps. Will God slay you? Maybe. Let's face it, God decides when you die, and you cannot overcome the will of God. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:14:10 PM EDT
[#36]
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Modern medicine worked for her. Many people doubt that her faith or prayers had much to do with her surviving. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tough sh*t for them then. She believed and it worked for her. That's all that counts. Modern medicine worked for her. Many people doubt that her faith or prayers had much to do with her surviving. Of course it did. But she does & she's a nurse (she knows about modern medicine). Who cares if she said that. Big fucking deal. Why all the drama. For a group of "free thinkers," atheists sure like imposing their beliefs on people. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:17:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, to clarify, are we now equating communism to atheism? As in, they are by default, the same thing?
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:25:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, to clarify, are we now equating communism to atheism? As in, they are by default, the same thing? Just want I make sure I understand where this discussion is going. If actions that are carried out by institutions that happen to be Christian are equated to "Religion", then yes. If the Spanish Monarchy = Religion, then Communist states = Atheism. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:38:52 PM EDT
[#39]
So what prayers exactly were used? Are these results reproducable?
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:39:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If actions that are carried out by institutions that happen to be Christian are equated to "Religion", then yes. If the Spanish Monarchy = Religion, then Communist states = Atheism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, to clarify, are we now equating communism to atheism? As in, they are by default, the same thing?
Just want I make sure I understand where this discussion is going. If actions that are carried out by institutions that happen to be Christian are equated to "Religion", then yes. If the Spanish Monarchy = Religion, then Communist states = Atheism. The common denominator is making the state paramount. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:43:27 PM EDT
[#41]
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Some atheists are virulent in their trashing of anything religious. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I know plenty of atheists, none bat an eye about things like this. I think Christians would be brokenhearted to know how little Atheists think about anything they do, one way or another. Some atheists are virulent in their trashing of anything religious. Similarly, some Christians get just as outraged at any faux outrage shown by any atheist anywhere. This thread and that article are a perfect example. a dozen or so random folks on Twitter tweet that they are upset Pham didn't give sufficient credit to modern medicine and BOOM...write an article how atheists bash Pham! Start a thread and call atheists anti-theists and point out how they're all assholes!!!!!!! Seriously, it is always amusing to watch two groups of butthurt reactionary people point the finger at each other for being butthurt and reactionary. Just as a small subset of atheists overreact and get virulent to just about anything, leave it to Christians to whip up a frenzy over a handful of Twitterers. Scour Twitter sometime, you'll find at least 20 people in the world sharing a shitty opinion about anything. WRITE AN ARTICLE!!!! WAR ON insert here. ETA: Case in point, for every atheist you'll find taking the time to criticize Pham, you'll find a christian saying dumb shit like the next hurricane is caused by God being pissed about gay marriage. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:43:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If actions that are carried out by institutions that happen to be Christian are equated to "Religion", then yes. If the Spanish Monarchy = Religion, then Communist states = Atheism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, to clarify, are we now equating communism to atheism? As in, they are by default, the same thing?
Just want I make sure I understand where this discussion is going. If actions that are carried out by institutions that happen to be Christian are equated to "Religion", then yes. If the Spanish Monarchy = Religion, then Communist states = Atheism. Ahh, I see. So the fact that all those horrific things were done in the name of greater atheism and to promote the greater acceptance of atheism world wide is where your going with this argument . I think you're reaching. I think that's a stretch. I also think I could use the same argument against you for Vatican cover ups for sexual abuse victims, but I'm not going to. Just my own interpretation of the philosophies/ governmental organizations in play here: Monarchy- is an individual who assumes authority through a combination of the state powers aligning and validation through the dominant religious body. Religion is required. Atheism- the practice of denouncing the possibility of a higher power. No political or religious affiliation required. Maybe you could give me a run down on how inaccurate I am about this statement |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:46:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The common denominator is making the state paramount. Yep. Ban the state?
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:50:02 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are the American version of the Taliban Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Atheists are fucking retards.... 
Wow. Really? |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:50:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Monarchy- is an individual who assumes authority through a combination of the state powers aligning and validation through the dominant religious body. Religion is required. Athism- the practice of denouncing the possibility of a higher power. No political or religious affiliation required. Maybe you could give me a run down on how inaccurate I am about this statement With a people enticed into following the rules by a wish to be rewarded in the afterlife/ fear of punishment in same, you can actually have fewer laws. With no heaven or hell the here and now is all that matters, and who can enforce the here and now but an all powerful state? The state becomes the higher power. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:53:17 PM EDT
[#46]
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I would be impressed if she relied solely on prayer, but I am guessing she didn't refuse the massive transfusion protocol to stop her from going into full-blown DIC....... You wouldn't have to believe in god to give her some credit for prayer working. It can make a big difference if you believe you will get better. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:54:41 PM EDT
[#47]
[ETA] Before quoting something from Page 1, I should have assumed that by Page 8 this thread would be about Hitler.
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:55:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. Ban the state?
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The common denominator is making the state paramount. Yep. Ban the state?
Come on man, the state would never allow that.
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Posted: 10/27/2014 2:25:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If actions that are carried out by institutions that happen to be Christian are equated to "Religion", then yes. If the Spanish Monarchy = Religion, then Communist states = Atheism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, to clarify, are we now equating communism to atheism? As in, they are by default, the same thing?
Just want I make sure I understand where this discussion is going. If actions that are carried out by institutions that happen to be Christian are equated to "Religion", then yes. If the Spanish Monarchy = Religion, then Communist states = Atheism. I, at least, was trying to be clear that was not my argument: Quoted:
What kind of sense does that make? Crimes in the name of the state likely (but not necessarily) have nothing to do with religion, and therefore aren't germane to a discussion on crimes committed in the name of (or against) religion. If a white southern racist beats his white wife to death during an argument one night, do we attribute his crime to racism? Simply because a nation is secular does not mean they are acting on behalf of their secularism....which is precisely what my point was. I likewise wouldn't hold religious nations accountable for atrocities committed for reasons outside of religion (at least so far as this discussion goes...obviously in the grand scheme of things, they should be held equally accountable for all crimes). You won't see me arguing that Saddam's invasion of Kuwait is the result of Muslim extremism. But much violence and suffering throughout history HAS been perpetrated in the name of religion. There are, conversely, very few (I can think of none, but I'm sure that's not the case) cases of violence and suffering being committed in the name of lack of religion. My argument isn't and never was that secular people and nations can't commit atrocities. It was only that they aren't compelled to do so by their secularism, as religious people and nations often ARE compelled by their religion. And a retread of what, may I ask? Shoes? Tires? Though acts that religious nations commit where religion is used as the rallying cry for action certainly do count, in my opinion, even if the ruling minority had other motivations. Same as me having agreed that despite underlying political motivations for developing a godless USSR, because the acts were committed due to a rally call to destroy religion, I'd count them among those committed in the interest of secularism/atheism. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 4:16:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Things I've learned today:
Atheism = communism Atheism = Taliban GD never disappoints me. |
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