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Posted: 3/26/2015 3:00:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Remember when most people shot .22 bolt guns, pistols or 10/22's with 10 rnd mags? Then the tacticool explosion of every military style weapon, semi auto handgun in .22 lr. Now people are blowing through a brick of 500 in the time they used to shoot 50. It adds up. A whole generation of kids that all have .22 ARs when we all had a 10/22 or a Marlin. We actually shot targets not just mag dumped as fast as possible. Lots of good points there. I would have been 'one of those guys' back in the 90s that shot a 22LR a few times at a beer can, maybe shot some frogs, might have taken it rabbit hunting with a tube fed Marlin lever action. I burned through thousands and thousands of 22LR once I could run it in my AR/M16. With the growth of all the new tacticool platforms, 22LR is being blasted 25 rounds at a time. I bought an STG-44 in 22LR the other day. I've already run 200 rounds through it in a matter of minutes...just making noise. TRG |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 3:09:22 PM EDT
[#2]
There are still people in Nebraska that line up at Walmart early on Saturday mornings to get .22 ammo. Its still extremely hard to come by
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Posted: 3/26/2015 3:14:04 PM EDT
[#3]
I miss typed earlier. I paid $0.085 a round.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 3:24:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of good points there. I would have been 'one of those guys' back in the 90s that shot a 22LR a few times at a beer can, maybe shot some frogs, might have taken it rabbit hunting with a tube fed Marlin lever action. I burned through thousands and thousands of 22LR once I could run it in my AR/M16. With the growth of all the new tacticool platforms, 22LR is being blasted 25 rounds at a time. I bought an STG-44 in 22LR the other day. I've already run 200 rounds through it in a matter of minutes...just making noise. TRG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Remember when most people shot .22 bolt guns, pistols or 10/22's with 10 rnd mags? Then the tacticool explosion of every military style weapon, semi auto handgun in .22 lr. Now people are blowing through a brick of 500 in the time they used to shoot 50. It adds up. A whole generation of kids that all have .22 ARs when we all had a 10/22 or a Marlin. We actually shot targets not just mag dumped as fast as possible. Lots of good points there. I would have been 'one of those guys' back in the 90s that shot a 22LR a few times at a beer can, maybe shot some frogs, might have taken it rabbit hunting with a tube fed Marlin lever action. I burned through thousands and thousands of 22LR once I could run it in my AR/M16. With the growth of all the new tacticool platforms, 22LR is being blasted 25 rounds at a time. I bought an STG-44 in 22LR the other day. I've already run 200 rounds through it in a matter of minutes...just making noise. TRG (Note: I had gallon milk jugs as targets but the kid shot them up before the wife had a chance to empty the American 180 and I hate to go home from the range with mags or drums still loaded.)  |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 3:26:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes Blazer is still being made. It's just non copper plated Mini-Mag. I like it except it's a little loud in my suppressed 22 pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The OP mentioned "CCI Blazer", I am not sure they still make that line...? See anything in this link? http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/products.aspx Yes Blazer is still being made. It's just non copper plated Mini-Mag. I like it except it's a little loud in my suppressed 22 pistol. The Blazer line is found at blazer-ammo.com. They are a different company from CCI, and provide their own line of ammunition using suppliers such as CCI, Federal, Alliant, etc. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 3:29:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is the wife running through 275 rounds in 13 seconds. (Note: I had gallon milk jugs as targets but the kid shot them up before the wife had a chance to empty the American 180 and I hate to go home from the range with mags or drums still loaded.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Remember when most people shot .22 bolt guns, pistols or 10/22's with 10 rnd mags? Then the tacticool explosion of every military style weapon, semi auto handgun in .22 lr. Now people are blowing through a brick of 500 in the time they used to shoot 50. It adds up. A whole generation of kids that all have .22 ARs when we all had a 10/22 or a Marlin. We actually shot targets not just mag dumped as fast as possible. Lots of good points there. I would have been 'one of those guys' back in the 90s that shot a 22LR a few times at a beer can, maybe shot some frogs, might have taken it rabbit hunting with a tube fed Marlin lever action. I burned through thousands and thousands of 22LR once I could run it in my AR/M16. With the growth of all the new tacticool platforms, 22LR is being blasted 25 rounds at a time. I bought an STG-44 in 22LR the other day. I've already run 200 rounds through it in a matter of minutes...just making noise. TRG Here is the wife running through 275 rounds in 13 seconds. (Note: I had gallon milk jugs as targets but the kid shot them up before the wife had a chance to empty the American 180 and I hate to go home from the range with mags or drums still loaded.) Nice. Florida typewriter! 
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Posted: 3/26/2015 3:43:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Blazer line is found at blazer-ammo.com. They are a different company from CCI, and provide their own line of ammunition using suppliers such as CCI, Federal, Alliant, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The OP mentioned "CCI Blazer", I am not sure they still make that line...? See anything in this link? http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/products.aspx Yes Blazer is still being made. It's just non copper plated Mini-Mag. I like it except it's a little loud in my suppressed 22 pistol. The Blazer line is found at blazer-ammo.com. They are a different company from CCI, and provide their own line of ammunition using suppliers such as CCI, Federal, Alliant, etc. Stuff shoots great! |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 4:00:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of good points there. I would have been 'one of those guys' back in the 90s that shot a 22LR a few times at a beer can, maybe shot some frogs, might have taken it rabbit hunting with a tube fed Marlin lever action. I burned through thousands and thousands of 22LR once I could run it in my AR/M16. With the growth of all the new tacticool platforms, 22LR is being blasted 25 rounds at a time. I bought an STG-44 in 22LR the other day. I've already run 200 rounds through it in a matter of minutes...just making noise. TRG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Remember when most people shot .22 bolt guns, pistols or 10/22's with 10 rnd mags? Then the tacticool explosion of every military style weapon, semi auto handgun in .22 lr. Now people are blowing through a brick of 500 in the time they used to shoot 50. It adds up. A whole generation of kids that all have .22 ARs when we all had a 10/22 or a Marlin. We actually shot targets not just mag dumped as fast as possible. Lots of good points there. I would have been 'one of those guys' back in the 90s that shot a 22LR a few times at a beer can, maybe shot some frogs, might have taken it rabbit hunting with a tube fed Marlin lever action. I burned through thousands and thousands of 22LR once I could run it in my AR/M16. With the growth of all the new tacticool platforms, 22LR is being blasted 25 rounds at a time. I bought an STG-44 in 22LR the other day. I've already run 200 rounds through it in a matter of minutes...just making noise. TRG This is true. My gun range has a "22LR shooting gallery" with all kinds of super cool steel plate racks and dueling trees which are miniaturized for 22LR. My wife and I go through a brick of ammo in NO time. This is also where we take new shooters to get used to handling the gun. We load up 10 mags for the S&W AR 22, 25 rounds each, and that only lasts a few minutes. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 4:13:21 PM EDT
[#9]
So, I was talking to a guy in Oxford Ms. Winchester has a plant there, supposedly they run three shifts making 1m rounds of .22 per shift. So, if that is five days a week that is 15m rounds of .22. So, where is it going. This guy behind the gun counter speculated that the .mil was buying it and using it for training in the M4 with a .22 conversion bolt. Not sure about that but that is alot of ammo being turned out and to still have the shelves bare. It must be going off shore, but where?
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Posted: 3/26/2015 4:18:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of good points there. I would have been 'one of those guys' back in the 90s that shot a 22LR a few times at a beer can, maybe shot some frogs, might have taken it rabbit hunting with a tube fed Marlin lever action. I burned through thousands and thousands of 22LR once I could run it in my AR/M16. With the growth of all the new tacticool platforms, 22LR is being blasted 25 rounds at a time. I bought an STG-44 in 22LR the other day. I've already run 200 rounds through it in a matter of minutes...just making noise. TRG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Remember when most people shot .22 bolt guns, pistols or 10/22's with 10 rnd mags? Then the tacticool explosion of every military style weapon, semi auto handgun in .22 lr. Now people are blowing through a brick of 500 in the time they used to shoot 50. It adds up. A whole generation of kids that all have .22 ARs when we all had a 10/22 or a Marlin. We actually shot targets not just mag dumped as fast as possible. Lots of good points there. I would have been 'one of those guys' back in the 90s that shot a 22LR a few times at a beer can, maybe shot some frogs, might have taken it rabbit hunting with a tube fed Marlin lever action. I burned through thousands and thousands of 22LR once I could run it in my AR/M16. With the growth of all the new tacticool platforms, 22LR is being blasted 25 rounds at a time. I bought an STG-44 in 22LR the other day. I've already run 200 rounds through it in a matter of minutes...just making noise. TRG I noticed the beginning of the .22lr shortage starting when a slew of .22lr versions of larger caliber rifles started showing up. I'm not sure why since .22lr is like shooting a slightly higher powered BB gun, but it is what it is. I've gone 2 years since shooting a .22lr and don't miss it at all since my one and only 10/22 has the same nickle sized accuracy eery time I shoot it. I've trained a few beginners with rented .22lr handguns in that time frame, but haven't shot any of it myself. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 4:21:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The last time I bought .22LR was in 2003-2004 when our local "The Andersons" was getting out of guns and ammo. All they had for bulk was Remington Thunderbolts. $0.99 per 50 or $9.89 for a brick of 500. I asked for two bricks, when the sales associate handed them to me he said, "we're getting rid of all our guns and ammo and reducing the fishing dept by 50% as well." I asked for ALL the Remington bricks, as well as the rest of their .22LR inventory. I walked out of the store with a shopping cart 3/4 full with .22LR ammo. The total haul was around 27,000 rounds of various .22LR (Mostly Remington Thunderbolts, some Yellow Jackets, Stingers, MiniMags, and CCI SV). I didn't buy anything but LR, left all the shorts and magnums behind. I've down to 3.5 bricks of Thunderbolt from that haul and have not seen .22LR on the retail shelves for a long time (not that I was looking for any until after the recent panic). Currently I can load lead .45acp for the same 10cpr as .22LR, so I'll save my .22LR for the S.O. and any new shooters I need to introduce to the shooting scene. P.S. Apparently the Thunderbolt .22LR made back then aren't near as bad as the new production Thunderbolts.  Northwood? I took care of the last of their .223. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 4:25:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Yeah...it's funny.
I'm not sure if the 2008 ammo run had anything to do with it, but after that, the .22LR craze hit and manufacturers started really hitting the rimfire market. I bought my S&W M&P 15-22 Jan 2011 and shot the living crap out of the thing...some of my friends bought 15-22 rifles as well. After getting a rimfire dueling tree, we easily burnt through 5-10K rounds of .22LR that summer, each. I believe this trend was what set the stage for the late 2012 .22 run on ammo... |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 4:28:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Northwood? I took care of the last of their .223. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The last time I bought .22LR was in 2003-2004 when our local "The Andersons" was getting out of guns and ammo. All they had for bulk was Remington Thunderbolts. $0.99 per 50 or $9.89 for a brick of 500. I asked for two bricks, when the sales associate handed them to me he said, "we're getting rid of all our guns and ammo and reducing the fishing dept by 50% as well." I asked for ALL the Remington bricks, as well as the rest of their .22LR inventory. I walked out of the store with a shopping cart 3/4 full with .22LR ammo. The total haul was around 27,000 rounds of various .22LR (Mostly Remington Thunderbolts, some Yellow Jackets, Stingers, MiniMags, and CCI SV). I didn't buy anything but LR, left all the shorts and magnums behind. I've down to 3.5 bricks of Thunderbolt from that haul and have not seen .22LR on the retail shelves for a long time (not that I was looking for any until after the recent panic). Currently I can load lead .45acp for the same 10cpr as .22LR, so I'll save my .22LR for the S.O. and any new shooters I need to introduce to the shooting scene. P.S. Apparently the Thunderbolt .22LR made back then aren't near as bad as the new production Thunderbolts. Northwood? I took care of the last of their .223. Lima, American Mall (The Andersons kept that mall open an additional 3-4 years... a tad overpriced on many items, but damn their adult beverage selection was AWESOME!) |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 4:41:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah...it's funny. I'm not sure if the 2008 ammo run had anything to do with it, but after that, the .22LR craze hit and manufacturers started really hitting the rimfire market. I bought my S&W M&P 15-22 Jan 2011 and shot the living crap out of the thing...some of my friends bought 15-22 rifles as well. After getting a rimfire dueling tree, we easily burnt through 5-10K rounds of .22LR that summer, each. I believe this trend was what set the stage for the late 2012 .22 run on ammo... Yep, a definite shift in demand. It isn't going to just go away some month when neckbearders give up. The shift has some permanence to it. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 4:50:00 PM EDT
[#15]
I bought a very expensive 22 rifle just before Sandy Hook. I'm getting old. I hope I get to shoot more than I've been able to so far before I die.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 4:50:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Can anyone confirm if the cost to distributors has gone up any?
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Posted: 3/26/2015 5:11:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're already running 24/7 on the machinery they have. The problem is, increasing production requires a significant capital investment. There's no assurance that the increased level of demand will continue, so the manufacturers have little incentive to invest. They just milk the cash cow they have. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? They're already running 24/7 on the machinery they have. The problem is, increasing production requires a significant capital investment. There's no assurance that the increased level of demand will continue, so the manufacturers have little incentive to invest. They just milk the cash cow they have. Pretty much this. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 5:30:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can anyone confirm if the cost to distributors has gone up any? |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 5:40:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Blame cell phones. Talked to a nice young(er) lady at the WalMart sporting goods counter the other day. Innocently asked her if they ever get any 22 ammo in and she said that yes they do, on a fairly regular basis. How ever, as soon as they put it out, someone comes along, buys a box( 1 box limit) and almost before they leave the counter the cell phone comes out and the network is notified. Everything gone before you can blink. She did say though that if an employee tried to buy it or called anyone to say it was being put on the shelf at a specific time it was grounds for immediate termination, at least here where I am.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 5:48:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? They're already running 24/7 on the machinery they have. The problem is, increasing production requires a significant capital investment. There's no assurance that the increased level of demand will continue, so the manufacturers have little incentive to invest. They just milk the cash cow they have. Pretty much this. Out of curiosity, what indicators are there that demand is going to drop by any significant amount? Not just this year, but is there any indicator that demand is going to drop by any significant amount in the next 5 years? 10 years? In 2013 there were something like 14 million firearm acquisition related NICS checks. Let's make a conservative assumption that only 10% were for .22 firearms. That would be approx. 1.4 million new .22 firearms sold in a single year. Say that each new .22 firearm purchase resulted in the buyer wanting 100 rounds for shooting in that gun each month in the following year. That would be 120 million rounds a month just for feeding those new firearm purchases, or 1 billion 440 million rounds for a year. Cut the ammo demand in half to make it even more conservative? That's still 720 million rounds of .22 a year. Doesn't even count for .22 firearms sold the year before, the year after, etc. So many people have purchased .22 firearms, many of them like my FIL are new gun owners, that the shift in demand should be fairly permanent. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 5:52:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is the wife running through 275 rounds in 13 seconds. (Note: I had gallon milk jugs as targets but the kid shot them up before the wife had a chance to empty the American 180 and I hate to go home from the range with mags or drums still loaded.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Remember when most people shot .22 bolt guns, pistols or 10/22's with 10 rnd mags? Then the tacticool explosion of every military style weapon, semi auto handgun in .22 lr. Now people are blowing through a brick of 500 in the time they used to shoot 50. It adds up. A whole generation of kids that all have .22 ARs when we all had a 10/22 or a Marlin. We actually shot targets not just mag dumped as fast as possible. Lots of good points there. I would have been 'one of those guys' back in the 90s that shot a 22LR a few times at a beer can, maybe shot some frogs, might have taken it rabbit hunting with a tube fed Marlin lever action. I burned through thousands and thousands of 22LR once I could run it in my AR/M16. With the growth of all the new tacticool platforms, 22LR is being blasted 25 rounds at a time. I bought an STG-44 in 22LR the other day. I've already run 200 rounds through it in a matter of minutes...just making noise. TRG Here is the wife running through 275 rounds in 13 seconds. (Note: I had gallon milk jugs as targets but the kid shot them up before the wife had a chance to empty the American 180 and I hate to go home from the range with mags or drums still loaded.) Awesome video. I have been finding sporadically CCI at WM. Last week just happened to go into Field & Stream and bought two bricks (store limit) of Thunderbolt's for $24.99. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 5:52:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From what I have been told, the profit margin does not make it worth enlarging the production facilities. So we just have to suck it up. I can buy it for 10cpr all day long. If they up their production capacity, we would see a jump in the base price I am sure. I keep my eyes open at WM and such and keep enough to replace what I shoot. I have enough stocked up to last for a while. This and the fact that the ammo manufacturers have a much higher profit margin on easier-to-produce centerfire ammo. As long as demand remains high on centerfire ammo (selling all that they can make) what do you think a smart company is going to be spending their time producing? Now add the fact that anyone on this board (in addition to most other gun owners) having not been able to buy .22lr for two years, will buy everything that they see when found at a store. We are still a long way from the supply and demand leveling out. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 6:19:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I spoke to a Remington rep a few weeks ago about .22. He told me that they are making 7 MILLION rounds a day, and they are working 5 days around the clock and half day on Sat and closed on Sunday. He said they are the second largest producer of .22Lr in the country. He also said that not one .22lr manufacturer has not and will not expand production. It is a almost zero profit item. At SHOT they were talking about production and demand. They all seem to think demand will start to slow this summer and we should see more on shelves. None of them thought it would last this long... They seem to think other than the amount of new shooters wanting it, the number one problem is the Neckbeards. And the number two problem is the people who pay their prices. I have picked up maybe 400 rounds (CCI MM) in the last two years and my dad about the same amount. I will not pay stupid prices for .22. I was at Cabelas last week and they had quite a bit of Rem Golden bullets. I did not buy any... Also, there was not a huge crowd around the cart like I have seen in the past. You say that like it's a lot. It's not.... That's only 14,000 bricks. Walmart has 4,516 stores in the US. That's 3.1 bricks per Walmart per day. I know that only accounts for Remington, but that also only accounts for Walmart's stores. Add Cabela's, Bass Pro, Dick's, Academy, Gander, internet retailers, and hundreds of local gun shops into the mix, and there just isn't much .22lr to go around. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 6:31:13 PM EDT
[#24]
This...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of curiosity, what indicators are there that demand is going to drop by any significant amount? Not just this year, but is there any indicator that demand is going to drop by any significant amount in the next 5 years? 10 years? In 2013 there were something like 14 million firearm acquisition related NICS checks. Let's make a conservative assumption that only 10% were for .22 firearms. That would be approx. 1.4 million new .22 firearms sold in a single year. Say that each new .22 firearm purchase resulted in the buyer wanting 100 rounds for shooting in that gun each month in the following year. That would be 120 million rounds a month just for feeding those new firearm purchases, or 1 billion 440 million rounds for a year. Cut the ammo demand in half to make it even more conservative? That's still 720 million rounds of .22 a year. Doesn't even count for .22 firearms sold the year before, the year after, etc. So many people have purchased .22 firearms, many of them like my FIL are new gun owners, that the shift in demand should be fairly permanent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of curiosity, what indicators are there that demand is going to drop by any significant amount? Not just this year, but is there any indicator that demand is going to drop by any significant amount in the next 5 years? 10 years? In 2013 there were something like 14 million firearm acquisition related NICS checks. Let's make a conservative assumption that only 10% were for .22 firearms. That would be approx. 1.4 million new .22 firearms sold in a single year. Say that each new .22 firearm purchase resulted in the buyer wanting 100 rounds for shooting in that gun each month in the following year. That would be 120 million rounds a month just for feeding those new firearm purchases, or 1 billion 440 million rounds for a year. Cut the ammo demand in half to make it even more conservative? That's still 720 million rounds of .22 a year. Doesn't even count for .22 firearms sold the year before, the year after, etc. So many people have purchased .22 firearms, many of them like my FIL are new gun owners, that the shift in demand should be fairly permanent. And this... Quoted:
Remember when most people shot .22 bolt guns, pistols or 10/22's with 10 rnd mags? Then the tacticool explosion of every military style weapon, semi auto handgun in .22 lr. Now people are blowing through a brick of 500 in the time they used to shoot 50. It adds up. A whole generation of kids that all have .22 ARs when we all had a 10/22 or a Marlin. We actually shot targets not just mag dumped as fast as possible. ...Are the points that matter the most. There are more shooters now than ever, they're shooting more now than ever, and almost all of them own multiple .22s. And the very nature of .22s being sold has changed. Since its release, the Ruger SR-22 has been the best selling firearm in my local gun shop. Almost everyone that buys a 10/22 buys BX-25s, and if they buy a .22lr rifle that's not a 10/22, they're probably buying a M&P 15-22. I go to the range pretty regularly, and I can't remember the last time I saw any form of tube fed .22 being shot. It's been several months at least. The majority of people buying .22lr at this point aren't stacking it in their closet. They're shooting it. The demand isn't going away, and the market is "dropping out." |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 6:51:41 PM EDT
[#25]
I will say that I have passed on just about every type of .22 rimfire that I do not or will not shoot. I have passed up okay deals on Thunderbolts, Golden Bullets, Winchester W22, Remington Subsonic, CI, Aguila, and several others I knew I wouldn't use so others can enjoy plinking with it.
I use: Wolf MT CCI Blazer CCI standard velocity Federal Automatch CCI quiet CCI subsonic hp I do have small amounts of other types but these cover all the 22's I use a lot. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 7:16:29 PM EDT
[#26]
My LGS put some CCI SVLRN out while I was there this morning.....$42.50 a brick.....After tax that works out to nine cents a round.
That's about the best you can do now on quality ammo in my area unless you fall into a deal. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 7:40:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Woa...wait a min. I'm not going to chime in on the "lack of .22LR" topic because I think most of here know why it is so hard to find... But I will reply to your claims. If you were paying $.07/rd pre 2013 for standard vel CCI...they saw you coming. I was routinely getting CCI Blazer 525 bulk boxes for $15-17/pc. Look here: http://web.archive.org/web/20120928155716/http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301133745/cci-blazer-ammunition-22-long-rifle-40-grain-lead-round-nose Late 2012...5000 case of CCI Blazer bulk $181.99 and from Midway (which was NOT the cheapest place to get .22 back then). Even with Midway's inflated pricing, it was still $.03/rd (almost $.04). Is there such a thing as inflation? Sure. A 200-300% increase in 26 months? No. On topic...I have around 2K left of quality .22...which will all be shot through my M&P 15-22 and all by my 6 year old daughter. After that? I don't give a shit, I'll let that rifle rot before I even contemplate dropping $.10-.20/rd for some cheap-ass .22LR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:CCI standard velocity has been available on PSA for the last couple days. It is there right now.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cci-22lr-standard-velocity-500rd-box-50035.html At 9 cents per round, it is slightly higher than what it was 3 years ago (about 7 cents per round), but it is still available. CCI was always higher priced than other brands, but those who shot it know it was because it is some of the most consistent and reliable rimfire out there. I bought some more because it works great with my suppressors. Woa...wait a min. I'm not going to chime in on the "lack of .22LR" topic because I think most of here know why it is so hard to find... But I will reply to your claims. If you were paying $.07/rd pre 2013 for standard vel CCI...they saw you coming. I was routinely getting CCI Blazer 525 bulk boxes for $15-17/pc. Look here: http://web.archive.org/web/20120928155716/http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301133745/cci-blazer-ammunition-22-long-rifle-40-grain-lead-round-nose Late 2012...5000 case of CCI Blazer bulk $181.99 and from Midway (which was NOT the cheapest place to get .22 back then). Even with Midway's inflated pricing, it was still $.03/rd (almost $.04). Is there such a thing as inflation? Sure. A 200-300% increase in 26 months? No. On topic...I have around 2K left of quality .22...which will all be shot through my M&P 15-22 and all by my 6 year old daughter. After that? I don't give a shit, I'll let that rifle rot before I even contemplate dropping $.10-.20/rd for some cheap-ass .22LR. CCI standard velocity is NOT the same as CCI Blazer....not even close. .07/round was average price for CCI SV in 2007. It's much more accurate than Blazer. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 7:57:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Don't care, at 10cpr I am just going to shoot 9mm reloads or 5.45 I bought at 11cpr.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 8:31:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of curiosity, what indicators are there that demand is going to drop by any significant amount? Not just this year, but is there any indicator that demand is going to drop by any significant amount in the next 5 years? 10 years? . Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? They're already running 24/7 on the machinery they have. The problem is, increasing production requires a significant capital investment. There's no assurance that the increased level of demand will continue, so the manufacturers have little incentive to invest. They just milk the cash cow they have. Pretty much this. Out of curiosity, what indicators are there that demand is going to drop by any significant amount? Not just this year, but is there any indicator that demand is going to drop by any significant amount in the next 5 years? 10 years? . The question is, though, would it be worth it to go to the expense of, say, building a $250 million rimfire plant to make your company’s money back at a penny a round over the next 10 to 20 years? The answer, so far, has been a resounding no. Mark Keefe, editor of American Rifleman, breaks down the numbers here There's a lot of people in this thread saying there's money to be made cranking out .22. I wish they'd put their money where their posts are and set up shop. I'd love to eat some .22-flavored crow and get out shooting more. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 8:41:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mark Keefe, editor of American Rifleman, breaks down the numbers here There's a lot of people in this thread saying there's money to be made cranking out .22. I wish they'd put their money where their posts are and set up shop. I'd love to eat some .22-flavored crow and get out shooting more. Who the hell came up with such a ridiculous number as $250 million for a rimfire plant? If they were making money at $20 two years ago then they can make money at $25 now. They just need to restructure pricing and make more product. Not freaking hard to figure out the math. I think something else is at work. I think they are worried about raw materials or something of that nature. My company buys and sells stuff so I am familiar with margins and there has to be some margin or they wouldn't do it. The market is expanding. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 10:05:22 PM EDT
[#32]
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Don't care, at 10cpr I am just going to shoot 9mm reloads or 5.45 I bought at 11cpr. Good for you, but that's not an option for people who practice precision shooting with .22 rifles. Not everyone just wants to make noise or shoot tin cans. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 10:17:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who the hell came up with such a ridiculous number as $250 million for a rimfire plant? If they were making money at $20 two years ago then they can make money at $25 now. They just need to restructure pricing and make more product. Not freaking hard to figure out the math. I think something else is at work. I think they are worried about raw materials or something of that nature. My company buys and sells stuff so I am familiar with margins and there has to be some margin or they wouldn't do it. The market is expanding. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Mark Keefe, editor of American Rifleman, breaks down the numbers here There's a lot of people in this thread saying there's money to be made cranking out .22. I wish they'd put their money where their posts are and set up shop. I'd love to eat some .22-flavored crow and get out shooting more. Who the hell came up with such a ridiculous number as $250 million for a rimfire plant? If they were making money at $20 two years ago then they can make money at $25 now. They just need to restructure pricing and make more product. Not freaking hard to figure out the math. I think something else is at work. I think they are worried about raw materials or something of that nature. My company buys and sells stuff so I am familiar with margins and there has to be some margin or they wouldn't do it. The market is expanding. You can buy 22 anywhere at the prices you'd pay if infrastructure was increased to meet current demand. Orders have decreased from dealers. Why would any demand analyst say they should open another factory as demand steadily decreases? Eta- given the brands discussed in the article, I'd imagine the $250mil cost for rimfire plant wasn't a wag. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 10:39:52 PM EDT
[#34]
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I miss the Walmart Federal 550 round bulk packs for $8.87. Believe it or not that was actually in this century $7.96 here. I remember being outraged when the price jumped to $8.96/550. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:01:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sadly my present location precludes mail order purchase of .22lr unless I want to pay an extra $6 per brick plus shipping. FUAC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You haven't been utilizing your team membership Sadly my present location precludes mail order purchase of .22lr unless I want to pay an extra $6 per brick plus shipping. FUAC. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:03:10 PM EDT
[#36]
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.22 is efectively dead. I argued with someone here a year ago that it wasn't but he was right and i was wrong. I've gone back to bullet casting. even buying scrap lead locally at a buck a pound. I can make a 9mm bullet for less than 3 cents. another 3 cents for the primer and 2 cents for powder puts me at 8 cents for 9mm and thats buying lead. I'm working my way through 130 lbs of lead i've had for 10 years. I feel your feels man. 
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:15:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .22 rimfire is the lowest profit margin round out there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? They're already running 24/7 on the machinery they have. The problem is, increasing production requires a significant capital investment. There's no assurance that the increased level of demand will continue, so the manufacturers have little incentive to invest. They just milk the cash cow they have. In the last two years the demand would have paid off new equipment, new buildings, new Beemers for each worker, and daily knob polishing for the executives. WTF are they waiting for? This correction will take years. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:28:28 PM EDT
[#38]
I don't see how anything chambered in .22lr is selling at all, why buy a gun you can't find ammo for.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:36:41 PM EDT
[#39]
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I don't see how anything chambered in .22lr is selling at all, why buy a gun you can't find ammo for. I have had a lot of people say this to me as well, love to buy this or that gun, but it is in .22 so fuck it. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 12:02:12 AM EDT
[#40]
When the lack of 22 ammunition starts hurting the entire industry like it is now then there is something wrong. 22 rifle and pistol sales are suffering due to this. The future shooters are unable to shoot due to lack of ammo. I personally do not believe any of the official explanations. I don't believe they are running 24/7 either.
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Posted: 3/27/2015 12:05:56 AM EDT
[#41]
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I have had a lot of people say this to me as well, love to buy this or that gun, but it is in .22 so fuck it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't see how anything chambered in .22lr is selling at all, why buy a gun you can't find ammo for. I have had a lot of people say this to me as well, love to buy this or that gun, but it is in .22 so fuck it. I've said that many times. I thought about the .17 HMR. It's a great concept and I've never heard any complaints from people that own them. Then I saw the ammo price. No thanks. It would be great to double my range on the small bore rifle, but damn. I need to start reloading. I wish I would have started when I was 18. I have a few centerfires that are too expensive to feed, as of right now. It was a shame that I didn't buy that bulk pack of 5,000 Federal .22LR back when it was less than $200. I'm still kicking myself for that. As expensive as .22 has become, especially when time is factored into the hunt, I should be shooting a .22 pellet gun. Those things develop a respectable amount of power, especially for the cost per round. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 12:15:49 AM EDT
[#42]
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I have over 10k rds, just 'cause. I never use .22 any more though. FBHO. I'm in good shape for .22 ammo too, but I'm the same way. I don't use it much because of difficulty of replenishment. I also cast my bullets, so 100 9MM, .45 auto or 50 .45-70 cost me about as much as 50 CCI Stingers. Why bother with rimfire unless I'm in the mood for a squirrel hunt or decide to take out a new shooter? |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 1:49:48 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Woa...wait a min. I'm not going to chime in on the "lack of .22LR" topic because I think most of here know why it is so hard to find... But I will reply to your claims. If you were paying $.07/rd pre 2013 for standard vel CCI...they saw you coming. I was routinely getting CCI Blazer 525 bulk boxes for $15-17/pc. Look here: http://web.archive.org/web/20120928155716/http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301133745/cci-blazer-ammunition-22-long-rifle-40-grain-lead-round-nose Late 2012...5000 case of CCI Blazer bulk $181.99 and from Midway (which was NOT the cheapest place to get .22 back then). Even with Midway's inflated pricing, it was still $.03/rd (almost $.04). Is there such a thing as inflation? Sure. A 200-300% increase in 26 months? No. On topic...I have around 2K left of quality .22...which will all be shot through my M&P 15-22 and all by my 6 year old daughter. After that? I don't give a shit, I'll let that rifle rot before I even contemplate dropping $.10-.20/rd for some cheap-ass .22LR. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:CCI standard velocity has been available on PSA for the last couple days. It is there right now. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cci-22lr-standard-velocity-500rd-box-50035.html At 9 cents per round, it is slightly higher than what it was 3 years ago (about 7 cents per round), but it is still available. CCI was always higher priced than other brands, but those who shot it know it was because it is some of the most consistent and reliable rimfire out there. I bought some more because it works great with my suppressors. Woa...wait a min. I'm not going to chime in on the "lack of .22LR" topic because I think most of here know why it is so hard to find... But I will reply to your claims. If you were paying $.07/rd pre 2013 for standard vel CCI...they saw you coming. I was routinely getting CCI Blazer 525 bulk boxes for $15-17/pc. Look here: http://web.archive.org/web/20120928155716/http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301133745/cci-blazer-ammunition-22-long-rifle-40-grain-lead-round-nose Late 2012...5000 case of CCI Blazer bulk $181.99 and from Midway (which was NOT the cheapest place to get .22 back then). Even with Midway's inflated pricing, it was still $.03/rd (almost $.04). Is there such a thing as inflation? Sure. A 200-300% increase in 26 months? No. On topic...I have around 2K left of quality .22...which will all be shot through my M&P 15-22 and all by my 6 year old daughter. After that? I don't give a shit, I'll let that rifle rot before I even contemplate dropping $.10-.20/rd for some cheap-ass .22LR. Quality 22 starts at around $80 a brick and goes up to around $200. Eley black box is $20 for a box of 50 For example. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 2:12:36 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When the lack of 22 ammunition starts hurting the entire industry like it is now then there is something wrong. 22 rifle and pistol sales are suffering due to this. The future shooters are unable to shoot due to lack of ammo. I personally do not believe any of the official explanations. I don't believe they are running 24/7 either. I do. I have two thoughts on this subject. One, I think the ammo is being produced and then is almost immediately being stacked up somewhere. People that didn't shoot 500 rounds a year now have tens of thousands of rounds stockpiled. There is no way to prove it one way or the other but if there was I'd be willing to bet 8 or 9 rounds out of every 10 produced in the last 2 years is stacked up in people's houses. Two, this crap is going to bite the shooting community in the ass hard. A lot of the new shooters that ran out and bought firearms as well a lot of the old shooters aren't going to be shooting because they either can't find or can't afford ammo (and not just rimfire). Once they quit shooting and the guns have been collecting dust in the back of a closet, much of the desire and willingness to get out and vote for pro gun and against anti gun measure is going to be low or nonexistent. A lot of you with the "hur, hur, hur, sucks to be you, you should have stockpiled ammo up years ago like I did" attitude that I have seen on here time after time stand a good chance of finding yourselves like our brothers in CA, NY, MA, etc due to lack of pro gun voters in the coming years. I have a good bit put up from years past, but once it's gone I'm mostly priced out of shooting. The most I'll probably do is shoot my CCW some.
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Posted: 3/27/2015 3:47:45 AM EDT
[#45]
I saw 22LR on a shelf yesterday for the first time in about 14 months. Aguila in two different flavors, $60 and $80 per brick. Remington Thunderbolt for $40/brick. CCI AR Tactical for $30/300.
I bought a box of the Remington. 
The stuff sucks. I ran 75 rounds yesterday afternoon, about 20% of the shots sounded off. Oh well, I bought it as blasting ammo, nothing more. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 11:20:40 AM EDT
[#46]
Just ordered 110,000 rounds from cabelas:
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Posted: 3/27/2015 12:42:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryThey shipped it to me by mistake. 
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Posted: 3/27/2015 12:45:23 PM EDT
[#48]
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I miss the Walmart Federal 550 round bulk packs for $8.87. Believe it or not that was actually in this century I used to pay $169 per 5250rd case DELIVERED! |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 12:47:11 PM EDT
[#49]
This argument goes on and on. It's not just demand that drives the market.
I am a firm believer that if 22 ammo was profitable above other types ammo, ammo manufacturers would be making it available in the quantities the market is demanding. It must not be, or the free market would kick in and make it available. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 1:16:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see how anything chambered in .22lr is selling at all, why buy a gun you can't find ammo for. Because I bought a suppressor and want to clean my backyard of critters. So I bought a 22/45. |
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