He's wrong. You should strip the Mod 1, turn it into a Mod 0 or early SPR, and then build a Holland.

Agreed. I appreciate the granddaddy Mk12 but the Mod 1 and Holland are the shining stars IMO.

My bastardized Holland recce.

More shooty shooty in here people.

https://kmprecisionrifletraining.com/product/km-dmr-challenge/

This

Wow nice sticks . Holland it is.  Put a pvs14 I never use up in the EE to fund this endeavor

The correct answer is all the above ... if you can afford it.  But if you need to feed the family and pay the bills too, my choice is still the Holland for the next build.

I want a 733 and a MK18 Mod 0 and an XM177E1 but I refuse to pay Uncle Sugar for SBR privileges.

Man I wish I could afford all of the above. Single income house with 4 kids and a wife here . I do have a Mk18 Mod 0 and the Mk12 Mod 1. Really wish I could do both the 12 mod 0 and  H but that’s not gonna happen in the foreseeable  future.

Cross posted from the Holland thread...

Which Atlas bipod? I never realized there were so many options...

https://www.accu-shot.com/Atlas-Bipods-Compare.php

The pics on page 1 of the Holland thread seem to be a BT10...

http://www.accu-shot.com/catalog_new/atlas-bipods-official-manufacturer/66-bt10-v8-atlas-bipod.html

… which could make sense giving it has an NSN but that's not to say they weren't commercial off the shelf purchases either.

Thought we already answered it over there. For 100% sure the regular clamp one. I couldn't pick out any QD versions from the pics I have available, but I guess it depends, maybe someone else knows someone who can indicate on those with some 1st hand experience.

i want that plrf

Page 1 parts lists just states , "Atlas" under the bipod listing.

This is the only reply I got over there...

Clear as mud.

Their website shows 12 different bipods. The BT10 and BT46 look quite similar.

The BT10 looked like the closest one to the pics to me.

sarcasm. Didn't realize I wasn't allowed to post over here. Sorry to hurt your feelings. Have a nice day . sarcasm

Geez, calm your tits.

I don't know where TX got his info on the QD ones being used, but the NSN standard crossbolt one is what I can say for certain, yeah. It would make sense guys might buy QD ones too, just haven't seen them and I've been keeping as close tabs as I can on Mk12/Holland pics for a good while.

I was simply trying to point out that if you were still confused, the dedicated Holland thread made just as much sense to follow up in. The same people follow both threads, it's not like there's are exclusive groups who shun the Holland thread but post Holland stuff in here.

My apologies, good sir.

My tits are fine, my brain is pissed.

Your response just came off as a little gruff when I first read it.

I have been waiting on Fed Ex to deliver a package that I have to sign for all damn day. Took a day off work. The sad part is I could have worked a ten hour shift and still made it home. No truck yet. I don't want the wife unit to see that expensive assed Leupold for the Mod 1.

It seems we are in agreement that the cross bolted BT10 is the correct Atlas from photographic evidence.

ETA: 19:22 Still no Fed Ex, could have put in a twelve hour shift and still made it home.

What should I do with this? Conventional Mk1 or something else?

Attached File

Would make for a pretty legit Mod 1, going to need a salty Colt AF upper for it.

Sell it to me... dibs....

Sorry if I cam across as gruff, you do bring up a good point.

@RTUtah, I think it's time to do a Pg1 update. I'll start compiling new parts lists and such and reformat everything. We've got new Holland info anyways.

Aem f4 approved!

Should be here in a week or two. Just in time for the K&M DMR match on the 21st.

Try before you buy on the Atlas - my opinion isn't the most popular on this topic, but I personally hated it and went back to the Harris w/ ARMS QD mount.  At least you'll get your money back on the Atlas pretty easily.

@RTUtah

A revised and updated Mod H parts list (with sprinkled notes for context). Everything here is based off of either photos from my ~65 image deep stash, is from 1st hand statements by Nikiel09, 18E3V, and some of the other gentlemen that carried Hollands via IG/FB chats like the proprietor at KRG Ops, or was passed to me via folks who have contact with people who worked on the program, to include the gentleman who is still at SOTIC armory that worked with MSG Holland, and another gentleman who spun the un-marked barrels and continues close contact with MSG Holland.

Upper

Upper:
- Colt AF/Armalite M4 if rebuilt off SPR
- Colt Keyhole M4
- Keyhole Forge M4 black or FDE if full upper built by PRI

Barrel:
- Custom spun Heavy/SPR profile mid-gas from unknown blank
- Special Noveske 16" Recon, mid-length gas with custom heavier (~.742") profile in front of gas block for Ops Inc 12th Model, FDE coated (likely Duracoat, could be GunKote or Cerakote)

Gas Block:
- PRI .750 Black

BCG:
- Colt's M16 or other M16 contract replacement

Handguard:
- Precision Reflex 3rd Generation CF FF Handguard, rifle length, FDE [or Black if doing a full black upper but non-Noveske barrel]

CH:
- PRI Gas Buster M84 with military latch, black [Later pattern, no "welded" latch hotdog]
- Badger Ambi CH

Muzzle Device:
- Ops Inc 12th Model Brake and collar, and 12th Model suppressor

Scope Rings:

W/PRI Recce Rail:

-   A.R.M.S. #22 Medium

-   OPS rings

-   Nightforce A107

-   Badger 30mm Unimount

No Recce Rail

-   LaRue LT-104

-   A.R.M.S. #22 High

-   Nightforce A203 (XX High) Or A110 (X High)

Bipod:
- Harris BRM-S with PodLoc

*  A.R.M.S. #32
*  KAC RAS bipod adapter
*  LaRue LT-130 QD bipod adapter

- Atlas direct rail mount bipod BT-10
- LaRue LT-706/ Harris BRM-S combo
- VersaPods with ARMS #42 mount [claw or rubber feet]

BUIS:
-    Black PRI [rarely if used if at all]
-    ARMS #40 Standalone rear

Lower

Rcvr:
- Colt's or GM Hydramatic M16A1 (Anniston Depot markings on some)

Grip:
- A2
- Magpul MIAD
- Tango Down
- Ergo
- Sierra SPR

Trigger:
- Accuracy Speaks Full Auto Match
- KAC Adjustable F/A 2-stage
- Geissele SSF

Selector:
- DPMS Ambidextrous full-auto (old gen, ca 2000-2003 timeframe)
- Standard M16 style

Buttstock:
- ACE SOCOM Carbine or Rifle length - Gens 1-3
- SOPMOD Gen 1 or 2 [black or tan]
- Magpul

* ACS
* PRS
* CTR

Optics:
- Leupold 3-9x36 M3 TS-30A2 Illum Mildot
- Mk4 MR/T 2.5-8x36 M2 (with or without TS-30A2markings), Illuminated MilDot OR TMR reticle
- Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x40 LR, M3 turrets, Illuminated Mil-Dot reticle
- FDE Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x40, M2 turrets, Illuminated TMR (ala M110)
- S&B Short-Dot
- Bushnell SMRS 1-8
- Leupold Vari-X III LR M3 with Premier Reticles Gen 2 MilDot conversion [in LT-104 Mount]

Notes:

There are 3 rough iterations of the Mod H:

1)First handful were built at SOTIC armory directly by MSG Holland and another gentleman, using COTS parts ordered from Brownells etc. The one we can see closely had a black Colt Keyhole forged upper, black PRI Gen III handguard rifle length, and a black PRI Recce Rail. The barrel was unmarked, with a heavy/SPR profile, mid-gas, and OPS profile, and coated black. Only 2 of this type have been photographed, one of which may have actually had a Noveske barrel.

2)The second, larger grouping of Hollands were rebuilds of original SPRs. These can be distinguished as they all have FDE Gen III handguards, and retained the upper and lowers from the SPRs, often identified in that the upper and lower have matching worn rattlecan paint but the handguard is unpainted. Often the optics, suppressor, etc matched the upper/lower. These had the Noveske FDE barrels. Non rattlecanned ones you can identify by their uppers being Colt AF forgemark or Armalite (haven't seen one, but likely in the mix).

3)The third iteration apparently were assembled by Precision Reflex, with them supplying new parts for the entire upper. These had Keyhole forge contract uppers coated in FDE, FDE Gen III handguards, FDE Noveske barrels, contract M16 BCGs. These likely were supplied with the Recce Rails, maybe with PRI back-up irons as well (though apparently rarely even used).

Worth noting the PRI full-length lower rail (w/o 2x sleeve mounting threads) that was added to the hand guards, as this is not standard these days.

The supplied/discarded PRI iron sight was only the front - p/n 05-0028.  The rear was just the original #40 that was already there.  I've got a picture somewhere of one still attached - I'll see what I can dig up.

EDIT:  Here you go; I have a strong feeling the PRI front sight was removed to clear the clip-on night vision... it's tight enough as it is without the front sight installed -

Roger! Thanks dude.

I think I have commentary somewhere that PRI supplied a whole set. And that's one of the only clear pics with BUIS.

This one might actually have BUIS, or 45 offsets. Tough to tell honestly.


There's also this one, like the others its a #40/PRI front combo.


And that's literally it, as far as pics go.

Unless you're cloning a specific one that had irons because reasons, irons are a waste on a Holland clone. It doesn't seem like anyone really used them.

Mile High Shooting delivered on time as promised.

That can on the right has been run hard.

i wish mine was a mil-r and not a mil dot now kind of

The blurry top one has a PRI front - the bolt and angled leading edge are very clearly the same.  His thumb is entirely over the rear sight, though.

I just like leaving the #40 rear to fill out that notch in the RECCE rail, personally - so long as it clears the bell on the scope

When did they charge you the $200?? Mine was 22Nov17 and I'm still waiting on the fucking FBI background check. Ive been harrassing them as much as possible. Calling every day. Its the only way to get back at them.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/-NOTICE-TO-ALL-WITH-PENDING-NFA-TRANSFERS/17-485816/

I’ve been meaning to ask about this example, anyone know which 45° offset mount that is?

Apologies if it has been answered before, it’s easy to get lost in the wealth of information that is this thread.

She's one step closer to being complete.

Burkett/Predator Tactical, I believe the 1st generation. Would be used with a Docter II based on timeframe.

The FB CRA page is having a mk12 shootoff.

10rds 300yds average closest to center of target.
Factory ammo only
10x max
Prone only, no sleds

There are prizes. Go join the group to see tbe post and get the target.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1619366295005298/2074583902816866/

Can anyone tell me how durable the black duracoat is that is offered on the Douglas CLE SPR barrel? I'm curious if I'm better off going with the bead blasted. Thanks!

IMO, trying to compare duracoat to no coat is apples to oranges. It would be better to compare cerakote to duracoat for example. But to answer your question, there are pros and cons to both. Duracoat is durable. If or once you wear it down it's easy to recoat. Bead blasted you won't wear the coating but the metal directly such as nicking or scraping it and it's susceptible to rusting. I've seen it several times on bead blasted barrels. One of mine recently got reblasted and cerakoted for that very reason.

I don't think you'll be upset with the duracoat unless visually you change your mind and wanted the look of bead blasted.

Hope this helps...

I don't have FB or access to 300yd range.

That's the clown that ripped a bunch of us off in the FB clone group.

How so? I was thinking of doing business with him?

This. Fuck that clown.

Yeah, you'd know who we're talking about even if you spent a minute amount of time in the FB clone group.

Charging for premium parts while delivering Chinesium shit.

Not just charging. He was given the correct KAC mounts to use, but he substituted in like a $4 airsoft mount.

Correct. That's what I was trying to say, but didn't come out that way.

   I wish I could get him banned from this site for what he did, but I doubt it'd happen.

That's shady. I guess I won't be sending him my handguard to modify then. Thanks all for the heads up. Anyone know where I can get a Gen 2 pri handguard modified to look like a Gen 1?

Damn, after reading what you guys have posted F this guy. If you have any evidence of past asshattery, I would forward it to one of the EE mods. If they won't do anything post him up in the Bear Pit and make him defend himself.

His shenanigans are on FB, not Arf so I don't think they can do anything.