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Posted: 9/16/2005 6:39:00 AM EDT
If you all recall, the local Grayson County 4H club doesn't like to share the range, they don't follow proper range safety, and they refuse to bring hearing protection (although they were provided ear plugs free of charge last month).... All of which are not the "4H way"...
If you don't know the story-- look for the previous thread in this forum. Last we spoke with the owner of the range in Tom Bean TX (about 30 mintes north of Allen on 121 or 75), he said the 4H club can use the rifle range exclusively on the 3rd Saturday of each month. However, they must post a sign the day before notifying the public that they are exclusively reserving the rifle range for their 2-hour shoot 9:30AM-11:30AM. If no sign was posted, we can use the rifle range at the same time. However, if there is a sign, let's use the shotgun range until they are done!  I have some clay pidgeons, and they are less than $5 at Wal-Mart for a case... either way, we need to be present to show them they can't have their way and bully people off of a public range they get to use for free!Anyone up for a shoot? Let's get there early-- we can carpool/caravan too... Meet in McKinney... the owner doesn't mind us being early, even 6:00AM! However, we should be there before the other group sets up, which I am guessing is about 8:30AM.... Who's going? If we cannot get a group together this time, as Makarov_Mami is also out of town, I am 95% sure we are going again next month on October 15. CnL-- can you check for a posted sign at the range this evening? Maybe take a picture of the sign, or if its NOT there... -Thanks. |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 7:30:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Im on it, Ive got some errands to run this morning and will go by there today and give you guys an update.
Ill also try to be there tomorrow, I have a couple of commitents (can you say work) but really want to get involved in this fiasco since Ralph and I go way back to the beginnig of the range ( I believe I was one of the first to bust a cap down range) And ralph and I have a mutual understanding involving the range, (call it my home turf if ya will) so yes I have a vested interest in this as well as does Ralph. We arent going to allow azzhat soccer moms to rule the roost but do want the kids to benifit from PROPER firearm saefty and instruction |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 9:37:39 AM EDT
[#2]
You are going to purposfully disrupt a 4H shoot? Because they want 2 hours of range time a month?
If they are not wearing hearing/eye protection, or following proper range safety, there are better ways of addressing this than disrupting their shoot. |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 10:05:07 AM EDT
[#3]
sounds like there are other issues than just that 
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Posted: 9/16/2005 10:16:37 AM EDT
[#4]
For moer background to the story go here soccer mom is upset |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 10:47:00 AM EDT
[#5]
More like 40. 
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Posted: 9/16/2005 11:11:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Thanks for the link to the earlier post. EricTheHun had a good thought there also.
My daughter is the presedent of the Johnson County 4H shooting club, and they are very strict on range safety. All the kids in the 4H club are also members of the range. The senior club works closely with the jr. club and all works out pretty well. The 4Hers do ask for a bit of quiet time during the meeting (20 or 30 mins) and that does not seem to be a problem. If this club is as sloppy with range safety as you report, you really should contact the 4H about this. They will send someone out to observe and correct the situation. One of the members of the A&M board of directors is trying to put a stop to A&M's support of 4H shooting sports, and poor range safety like this would just give her fuel for her anti gun fire. If you want to have some fun, and watch kids having a blast, you should go to the state shoot in San Antonio. Hundreds of kids competing together in all kinds of shooting sports. |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 12:06:31 PM EDT
[#7]
as of 2pm .. no signs posted for reservation of the range
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Posted: 9/16/2005 12:07:56 PM EDT
[#8]
30 miles North of McKinney, I drive it every day, takes abut 35 min |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 1:15:53 PM EDT
[#9]
If you are already on the freeway, in Allen, its about 30 minutes ...
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Posted: 9/16/2005 1:22:52 PM EDT
[#10]
I believe it must be posted by a reasonable time, before dusk in my book, as people don't generally use the range after dark... I take it you will show tomorrow morning and get a hold on the range for us? |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 2:16:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Ill be up al night keeping watch on the smoker (two briskets, and a couple of boston butts ) for a BBq dinner at the S.O. tomorrow. Wanna keep me company ?????????? BYOB 
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Posted: 9/16/2005 2:28:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Hmmm... how far are you from the range? Is the smoker on the range? You going in the morning or not? (confused) If you want us to come by and hang out tonight... sure... Energizer has a new toy he wants to try out at the range! Email him-- check your email. |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 3:00:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Im two miles from the range ( about half a mile as the crow flies), I plan on going in the morn but dont know for how long. depends on status of the BBQ. The smoker is in my back yard I was just kidding about baby sitting me tonight. Once I get the temp set its just a matter of keeping tabs on the temp all night ( about every hour) |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 4:04:04 PM EDT
[#14]
If you had a few beers there, we'd come help you keep an eye on the fire.
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Posted: 9/16/2005 4:59:18 PM EDT
[#15]
you can come help with the dishes
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Posted: 9/16/2005 5:16:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Now that is a hell of a thing for you to say to me. I'll let Sulham know you're alone.... and where to find you. |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 5:27:25 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 9/16/2005 6:06:22 PM EDT
[#18]
CnL - did you ever get over to the range to see if the sign was posted? Also, did you talk to Ralph?
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Posted: 9/16/2005 6:11:05 PM EDT
[#19]
http://grayson-tx.tamu.edu/newsletters/05September.pdf
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Posted: 9/16/2005 6:20:56 PM EDT
[#20]
no sign posted, ralph wasnt home at the time EDIT TO ADD Just talked to Ralph, we are a go for tomorrow. Lets put on our best face, help the kids and show that bloody soccer mom what the GOOD side of the shooting community is all about Lets give the kids a hand, with instructions, safety concerns and put our best foot forward. Let HER make an AZZ of herself Ralph is behind us and we are a go |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 7:10:26 PM EDT
[#21]
OK, I'll admit that this does sound like a
 but hear me out.For the sake of discussion, that they don't have the sign out and they do show up. Do we want to discourage new shooters by being an anal orifice about having a sign up?? Given the anti-gun climate even here in Texas, is this something that we want to do??  My 2¢, wganz ¶ |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 7:50:30 PM EDT
[#22]
no one is being anal about there not being a sign, we welcome them to share the range with us It was HER that wanted US run off the range because we had EVIL rifles and the kids shouldnt be subjected to them on the range. Our guys even offered to assist them and offered to have them try our weapons Our guys were there first I believe and when she showed up she wanted US off the range. If you read the ori thread youll see that they had no adequate supervision, no hearing protection. violated a hot range so if its anal you want . it wasnt from our guys |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 8:47:24 PM EDT
[#23]
should we volunteer as range officers tomorrow? force them to conform to standard range ediquette?
is anyone a certified R.O.? I'll help pay your gas to come up (or carpool) and help control the range (I am sure Ralph would approve, what do you think CnL?) |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 8:55:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Ralph is behind us all the way, so do what ya gotta do |
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Posted: 9/16/2005 9:00:22 PM EDT
[#25]
they better bring ear plugs - afterall Ralph GAVE them a huge bag of earplugs last time since they could not "afford" them....
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Posted: 9/17/2005 1:16:37 PM EDT
[#26]
FYI-- same BS... long story.... But, after CnL left, the old hag approached us and argued about "the sign" she claimed was posted yesterday evening close to midnight (what a joke!) and would not tell us what the sign said but wanted us to agree to her terms... I said NO, since we don't know what the sign says, which can change at any time... We thought to ourselves, if that sign was posted close to or at midnight, 1. its not during normal business hours for people to see which is unreasonable, 2. it didn't fly away in the wind overnight, and 3. there was no morning "dew" damage...
She also violated many 4H and general range rules, such as calling out commence fire and allowing firearms to be handled WHILE ENGERGIZER WAS WALKING DOWN RANGE! WTF!? No hearing protection (admittedly), etc. Here's the sign, by the way:  |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 1:19:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Oh yeah, and the original conversation with the owner was they only needed it between the hours of 9:30AM and 11:30AM, which is also stated in their newsletter, but today their sign says 4 hours. The old hag claimed the newsletter never stated this, we were wrong, etc. (See link above for newsletter off of THEIR site.) Basically, they want to hog the entire range, including shotgun area, for an entire Saturday morning-- PEAK SHOOTING RANGE TIME FOR THE RANGE OWNER TO MAKE $$$...
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Posted: 9/17/2005 1:21:38 PM EDT
[#28]
One more note-- more details will follow later.
However, it was a very light turnout-- about 10 people showed up for the 4H club... and the hag still bitched. TEN PEOPLE, and they wanted to hog the entire range! |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 2:27:49 PM EDT
[#29]
So what is the deal here ?
Did the big bad black rifle guys get to shoot today or what ? Is there going to be a get together on Sunday ? Do you guys get out there every third Saturday ? I didnt see this post until today. I wanted to get some information to attend the next get together. John |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 2:51:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Yes. However, after the "rifle guy" left, the Mac10+suppressor/Ruger 10-22 guy and the AR Pistol (which wasn't really used) was confronted by the old hag and she was being very unreasonable and would not leave us alone-- kept harrassing us. The range owner will, someday, hear about this incident and life endangerment, yet again.
Probably not tomorrow... although you might contact CnL as he lives nearby.
This is pretty much the plan so far... Next shoot: October 15, EARLY. We are going to try and get there even earlier, but we keep hitting SNOOZE hehe... Shooting for 7:30AM at the latest, so we can set up for longer range shoots, etc. Maybe we can plan a good shooting event, with BBQ?
Just plan on every 3rd Saturday of each month, early morning-- maybe do a shotgun shoot too? Message me to ensure attendence as we almost forgot about this one, but Energizer had a good reason to go out there today... |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 3:00:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Thanks Mike, I will keep an eye open the day before the next 3rd Saturday.
I dont have or know CnL so i will watch here. Thanks John |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 4:02:43 PM EDT
[#32]
What is this sign stuff? Is the range now reservable? Does Ralph still own the place? He needs to step up and put up his own sign and end this nonsense.
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Posted: 9/17/2005 5:34:18 PM EDT
[#33]
I say we put up a sign, that cannot be removed easily, on Thursday before the next shoot, reserving the entire morning of October 15
... |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 5:34:58 PM EDT
[#34]
By the way, they are assuming they are "the range management." LMAO...
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Posted: 9/17/2005 5:36:47 PM EDT
[#35]
They want to hog the entire range, even though they don't use all of it, like today-- about 10 people. More: http://www.black-rifles.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2738 |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 6:23:53 PM EDT
[#36]
OK
I just got in from the BBQ at the S.O. and caught up. First, lets ease up a bit and treat this properly . Ralph and I will handle the soccer mom, but it has to be done correctly and professionally. While doing this I/we will need your asssistance in putting her in her place without soiling the reputation of the firearms community in general Theres a way to handle her and allow her to set herself up for the fall and come out smelling like a rose here. One way to NOT do it is to plan on being on the range EVERY TIME that they are there to shoot just to be an aggrivation to them. Basicly all we would be doing is "trolling" Ralph and I talked about this last night and we will talk more about it later. Thye first thing I need from one of you guys are a few of these real estate signs floating around the country side that are in good condition and can be convrted to suit our purpose  Another thing I need is for someone that has a connection at work to see if you can come up with a donation of some of those disposable safety glasses and ear plugs. NO Im not just going to hand them out without purpose either This will be used both for the safety of the youngsters AND as ammunition for us "good guys with black rifles" to give an attitude adjustment to the soccer mom liberal in a nice polite ( kill em with kindness ) mannerI have several other plans working and Ill fill ya in as they progress Renegade . Yes the range is reservable to groups, we have done this before for arfcom shoots. However I have always given at least a weeks notice to Ralph even though he only requested a day or two notice. However we have never NOT allowed outsiders to join us and have offered to let them shoot our toys trust me when I tell ya that Ralph DID NOT give them exclusive rights to the range only reserved for the 2 or 3 hrs they requested with certian provisions, one being that they post a notice the day before that they would be on the range. Her interpretation and the wording on her sign wont go over big when Ralph and I meet again. When we taked last night,as we do often when things go wacky at the range, He told me to do what I need to do. BUT it must be done properly |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 7:19:53 PM EDT
[#37]
OK, that is what confused me as we never made anyone feel unwelcome. Glad to see you are going to work on it with Ralph and hopefully make it a win-win for everyone. I actually do not mind if the range is closed for private use, if enough notice is given, and I would like the kids to learn the right/safe way. I will be more than happy to purchase/provide disposable ear protectors, but am unaware of any disposable eye protection. For once, something "for the children" I can agree with! |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 7:45:59 PM EDT
[#38]
I have a sign from my pool builder left over. It is a real estate like metal sign that you step on to press into the ground and I am sure you could paint it for your needs.
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Posted: 9/17/2005 7:51:44 PM EDT
[#39]
It would be nice to set her straight in her ways and help these kids, and their parents, enjoy guns and the sport. We should not intend to harass or scare them away.
BUT: the problem is bigger that we all thought, and not limited to Ralph's! I had a casual conversation with the weird lady today and she said that they shoot every weekend. She apparently travels to every county to teach the shooting for 4H in the North & Northeast Texas areas. Next weekend is Smith county, then Denton, Paris, etc - if I remember correctly. But she wants to have them all meet at Ralph's every 3rd saturday instead. SHE teaches the kids. She runs the range, if that is what you call it. She does not have any real safety, common sense, or any other apparent R.O. training. She claims that she has been teachin rifle marksmenship for over 30 years and that SHE was a national champion at one time. |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 7:53:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Last time they complained, Ralph brought out a huge bag of earplugs. This week they had some muffs but no one wore them!!!! She said it was because they have conversation while the kids are shooting. I recommended they have conversation away from the firing line and it would never be a problem. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:45:08 AM EDT
[#41]
Ill take it,and a few more if you guys can scratch some up ............... |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 1:51:05 PM EDT
[#43]
<Energizer "comment"> From what I gather, this lady claims to be the "main instructor" of all 4H groups in the area/region... and is an "expert" in target shooting as she's been doing this for 30 years... (Superalpha can correct me if I am wrong) But when she's constantly saying "Load & Lock" and doesn't really know what to say on the range as an R.O., ignores the fact there are people on the range when she calls it hot, etc., it really negates her claims... As far as "big bang" guns, apparently, she also considers a 9mm a "big bang" gun.... but here's the kicker-- no hearing protection is really needed since there was a HUGE suppressor attached to it. Now of course, the ammo was not subsonic, but it really wasn't loud at all. She did however, change her tune on this later when I removed the suppressor for the remainder of the morning .What county(state?) are you located? </Energizer> |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 2:03:47 PM EDT
[#44]
I asked her about pistol competiton, etc - she said only .22LR - that is ALL. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 2:05:48 PM EDT
[#45]
jrosto - welcome to arfcom, by the way...how did you find the site? did you read about this and decide to join? no matter, we will try to help the kids out by creating a safer and fun shooting environment
"do it for the children" |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 5:21:16 AM EDT
[#46]
Thanks for the welcome Mike. I live in Arlington, but am a member of the Johnson Cty Shooting Spports Association. Found the site looking for info on building an AR, have been lurking for awhile and joined up to comment on this post and another.
I looked up the results of the Texas State 4H shoot to see how her shooters did, and it does not look like they even participated. I wonder if that is because of all the shotguns, centerfire pistols and black powder guns that were being shot that week. Maybe it was because everone was required to wear hearing and eye protection. Here is a link to the Texas 4H site: http://tx4-h.tamu.edu/ss/ You may find the July newsletter interesting. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 1:15:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Now that's some funny shit.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 2:08:38 PM EDT
[#48]
You hush Ward or Ill tell some secrets on you ! |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 2:32:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Stories of the Mad Penguin, Now that's some funny shit. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 5:40:59 PM EDT
[#50]
I've half a mind to come up there for the next shoot with some of my own evil black rifles and a couple of little girls to cheer me on.
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