I say we start a collection to buy jem some real guns so he can know what the hell he is talking about.

Dang I'm pissed off. I'm so pissed off I'll barely be able to eat turkey today.

Damn you jem, you have undone my diabolical plot. My plan was to buy 2,000,000 shares of Hi Point stock, and THEN when everyone had bought a Cx4 overpriced Beretta whiz bang gun, the I announce that the HI POINT is just as good and drive my Hi Point stock way the hell up.

now what the hell am I gonna do with 2 million shares of crap stock? Damn you jem, damn you.

By the way the Kel Tec sub2000 is also a piece of crap. I shoulda known you'd own one.

Beretta space guns rule:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=217114&w=myTopicPop

Quoted: A 9MM space gun, what a joke...and then you try to stiff fellow members on the price... Don't worry, there are suckers all around and I am sure you will find them with your high prices....

Stiff people?!?

Fuck you.

Beretta retail on this gun is $687.00, I got a few in that I paid much more than Beretta 'dealer price' for because Beretta has yet to make them available to me.

I sold them at a very fair price of $625 and MOST people are selling them for $650. But tell ya what, why don't YOU pull a FFL, get them cheaper than I can and sell them for $600.00. Until then fuck off, seriously.

Quoted: hey, thanks for the post over in general, I only posted to piss off that Stehr guy who is a dealer and trying to get everyone to buy a $600 worthless 9MM carbine.....I should have used the Kel-Tec sub2000 as an example instead of the Hi-Point, typed too fast..........it was a kind of a tongue in cheek post in the first place just to piss him off a little..........

Quoted: SteyrAUG, some folks say you're okay, maybe you are.  But I can't remember ever reading a less professional response from a dealer.  I'm guessing you wouldn't be a lot of fun to deal with if there was a problem with a purchase.

Maybe you will understand this, I treat people the way they treat me. I am generally a nice guy unless someone is just fucking with me.

Let's take a look at the whole situation.

1. I saw these guns at Shot Show and was very impressed. I gave my fellow members a heads up then.

2. I recently was able to obtain one (and paid quite a premium because "I" felt it was worth it) and posted a honest evaluation and offered them far below current prices.

3. Jem got offended. To use 'his words':

I only posted to piss off that Stehr guy who is a dealer and trying to get everyone to buy a $600 worthless 9MM carbine.....I should have used the Kel-Tec sub2000 as an example instead of the Hi-Point, typed too fast..........it was a kind of a tongue in cheek post in the first place just to piss him off a little..........

And THAT is where the problems began.

He is offended that I would recommend and offer for sale a firearm that I bought for myself personally and recommended as a quality purchase. Never mind that every other single person who also bought one and offered their opinion was alos impressed. He was just there to try and 'piss me off' and admitted as much right here.

So he is not just a peson with a difference of opinion. He was out to fuck with me, even though I had never dealt with him previous on any matter. He was offended that I would recommend a firearm that he has no knowledge of.

And that is why I replied to him in the manner I did, he deserves no more consideration of any kind.

I answered dozens of other questions from other members in a courteous manner but they were not simply fucking with me.

I know most people would 'try' and remain professional in dealing with guys like jem but I don't. There are simply some things I don't do merely for money and putting up with guys who are just trying to 'piss me off' (to say nothing of trying to attack my business by suggesting I am stiffing people when I'm actually pretty discounted) is one of those things.

I hope this helps you understand my position.

From the Code of Conduct for the AR15.Com Forums:

6.) No “trolling”. This means posting controversial or “valueless” topics simply to gain attention or anger other members. There is a big difference in a “trolling” topic and a thread started just to have fun!

jem375, I suggest you abide by the Conduct Code.  

Quoted: <snip> . . . I only posted to piss off that Stehr guy who is a dealer . . .  <snip>

Put 2+2 together and you will see that your actions are not smart--nor conducive to long life here.  Please refrain from this type of activity in the future.  

Quoted: Steyr...I didn't think it would take too long to get you really pissed off.....I told you that it was mostly tongue in cheek ribbing in the first place. Now you don't have to keep posting to me since I am not going to buy anything from you in the first place, and I will leave you alone for the time being..

Actually you didn't bother me one damn bit until you attacked me as a dealer on a gun forum and suggested I was 'stiffing people' which forced me to correct you.

As for everything else you are just a trolling chucklehead. You offered a opinion of a firearm you have no knowledge of because you were offended that I was recommending them to people. You are a clown.

And I completely understand you won't be buying anything from me, I don't think I have anything you'd be interested in. I don't sell Hi Points, Kel Tecs, Wilson conversions or any other guns that I consider so bad I don't want to be associated with their sale.

And I could care less that you are "leaving me alone for now"...Oh thank you Mr. Troll, please stop your attacks on me. If you compare a Hi Point to a Beretta again, I just may go out of business. I hope you do keep replying, every time you post people see what a joke you are.

I don't know what your problem is and I don't care. I recommended a firearm based upon personal experience. You criticized it based upon your expereince with a Hi Point?!?

Jem do ya mean this one where you declared the Cx4 a POS without any firsthand knowledge of them?

Quoted: the Hi-Point carbine has received very good reports for accuracy and also very dependable...I know the Hi-Point pistols are POS, but, this little carbine will fool you... Hell, you can buy a Wilson 45ACP carbine conversion kit for a 1911 for $345 that makes the Cx4 look like a piece of crap anyway....

To which MY reply questioned your experience with the Cx4 and firearms in general...

Quoted: LMFAO. Wilson 1911 carbine conversion?!? Dude do ya own a nifty Lorcin too? Do have have a Jennings that is really a peach? Let's do a little experiment. 1. Have you shot or even held a Cx4 Storm? Answer: No I'm not really psychic but 1. They just came out and 2. You can't afford one so I know the answer. Based upon that, how the hell are you qualified to declare them a "piece of crap" especially as compared to one of the "gooberist" guns known to mankind. And just so you know, the Hi Point CARBINE, as well as their handguns, are complete junk. But don't worry I hear Raven has plans to make a carbine conversion for their handgun line and it is suppossed to be "really awesome" and "super cool." Start saving your lunch money I hear it might cost $100. Thanks for the laughs dude, I can sleep now.

Now I DID make fun of your choice of firearms and I DID call into question your expertise but I DID NOT attack (troll) you in any way.

But your reply HERE (original post) was trolling, and an admittion of the fact that your reply to me WAS a trolling post because for some reason you took offense to the fact that I found the Cx4 to be a reliable firearm and recommended them.

By your own statement, your original reply to me was "just to piss me off."

Don't know what your beef is, don't care but at least own up to your own shit. Don't say you did something to "piss me off" and then say you didn't.

As far as attacks from "my buddies" I don't think so. Those are just other memebers who also think you are nuts to compare a Hi Point to a Cx4 based upon their experience.

Quoted: steyr...well, my first post was, why would you buy a 9MM carbine for over $600, when you could buy 3 Hi-Point carbines for the same price and probably just as accurate?...after all, it's only a 9MM, nothing fancy, then the fun started by you and friends....... I think this has gone far enough, and I think the moderator should close this thread since it is obvious you don't want anyone else's opinion but your own to be heard..... So, Inuhgadnayburhood, can you please close this thread since I am the who originated it?

Not quite. If that is all you said it would be over and done with.

What you said was the Cx4 was a POS. But taht didn't bother me much either since it is only a opinion. What bothered me is when you came out and started with the "...and then you try to stiff fellow members on the price..." horse shit.

So quit trying to pretend you didn't do anything.

If you accuse me of "stiffing board memebers" that does affect my business and it will be answered. Prior to that you were just a guy who's choice of firearms I was making fun of.

But when you attack my business you can rest assured you will get my full, undivided attention.

And as for pistol caliber carbines being of no use, I guess that is why the MP5 sucks so bad?

Quoted: Gee, sorry, didn't know you were so thin skinned. I just posted and wrote that I was intending to let it go, but, here you come again. I wrote my opinion about anyone buying a $600+ 9MM carbine with no practical use is crazy...if all you want to do is to throw 9MM down the range, get a cheaper gun and use the extra money on ammo... You can't conceal carry the thing, a pistol is better around your nightstand, and if trouble ever starts, an ar15 or heavier caliber is better. I don't mind paying $500-$600 for a 9MM pistol because you can carry them and also for a home defense gun they are fine. They at least have a practical use. I'm glad you like yours, shoot it, hope all those space aliens come down so you can use your "space gun", as you so deftly put it....

Oh wow I am so humbled.

I am going to throw away my Uzi Carbine, HK94, MP5s and my 9mm AR15s. I had no idea they were useless junk. Thank you Obi Wan for your knowledge.

Quoted: beekeeper, I wish you would have as much concern about people using profane language on this site as you do about "value-less topics", the direct use of profanity is what ruins it for all, maybe you got a "good deal" from a dealer on this site too.

LOL, you found us out. I give beekeeper free crappy 9mm carbines for my profanity privledges.

Quoted: No one wants a 9mm carbine and Berreta will find this out in a hurry, if it was worth using the military would be using it, HK is the ONLY exception. There no difference between high end 9mm carbines and low end carbines, they are both under powered and limited in effective range, we are not talking about full-auto where control and RPM is key. An AR in 9mm, next joke please!

Well actually every dealer who has gotten any so far has completely sold them out.

My supplier got about 45 on a Friday and they were gone by Monday. I have no shortage of pending back orders so I think Beretta is gonna be fine.

And I'm not sure how HK is the exception to the rule. If the MP5 is practical for a job, then a 9mm AR15 could do the same job almost as well. And it isn't just about full auto, the FBI uses semi only MP5s that have no full auto option.

And the difference between high end (quality) and low end (crap) pistol caliber carbines is one you can place your trust in for all the marbles.

If all you are doing is just throwing rounds downrange just stick with a .22 it's cheaper. And in light of that fact I can see absolutely no use for crap guns like the Hi Point, etc.

As for the military they obviously DO use them. The thing is, just like other tools, the 9mm carbine has a specific use. And for the most part when it comes to military applications the M16 (M4) is the better tool for the job at hand than the MP5. The exception of course, being those rare instances, usually associated with special operations, where a pistol caliber carbine is the best "tool for the job."

But to say that pistol caliber carbines are useless would be just as absurd as to say that 'sniper rifles' are useless because you can't use them for home defense, conceal carry and they aren't regularly fielded by the military. Dumb huh?

Quoted: small tactical carbines chambered for pistol rounds are used when over-penetration is a factor i.e. going through walls or when close quarters firefights are expected. The M-4 configuration of the M-16 doesn't worry about going through the bad guys and the wall behind them. The HK is the exception because it is a family of weapon designed for the job, select fire, burst, semi, silencer, flashlights. The 5.56 needs more barrel length to get to its potential, the 9mm doesn't.

Actually in a test on building material 9mm generally over penetrated to a greater extent than .223.

Here is where a semi pistol caliber becomes practical. Mostly indoors when engaging multiple targets. The recoil on a 9mm carbine is virtually non existant and muzzle flash and sound are much less. These factors allow for faster sighting and mroe rapid engagement of targets indoors (ie. home defense). And as compared to the handgun a carbine paltform allows for greater accuracy and some greater ease when considering factors like optics, lights and lasers.

Quoted: beekeeper, I wish you would have as much concern about people using profane language on this site as you do about "value-less topics", the direct use of profanity is what ruins it for all, maybe you got a "good deal" from a dealer on this site too.

So cuss words make you cry, but you think nothing of slandering Mike, who I have met and know to be a honest and decent man who goes out of his way to help others. I'll take the company of man who cusses over one one who proclaims his love of God while making false allegations against decent men, allegations I suspect he would not have the courage to utter face to face.

By the way, Mike is an FFL and can get all the Beretta storms he wants at dealer cost.

Quoted: not all the dealers have sold them out, over in Gunsamerica.com, they have about 20 of them going from $602 up to the really honest dealer $749......

Kinda puts my $625 price in perspective huh? And most of those guys don't even have them in stock. But if you wanna take your chances on Gunsamerica be my guest.

Quoted: Rumor has it over there that the first 4500 black ones were LE bound, but, Beretta had so many delays that a lot of orders were cancelled and Beretta decided to get rid of them on the civilian market.

Giant load of horseshit. I have 2 kinds of LE Storms. Those marked LE which come with 15 round mags and those whch are civilian and ship with 10 rounders. I have been getting both and both are scarce.

Wanna know the real story?

Beretta wants to sell 'dealer direct' and have greater control of their own market. As a result they are fullfilling only a few of their orders that have been placed since the beginning. One distributor I know had a standing order for 250 and got 1.

Beretta plans on having their supply available in early 2004 and it will then only be available directly from Beretta. Same goes for accessories.

Quoted: the next batch will be 2 tone colors, so if you want a black one, you had better hurry...... I think the next color will be baby blue and gray. Gunbroker.com also has a couple..

I have not seen or heard anything from Beretta about colors. And this sounds like horseshit too. Probably something some dealer made up to help move his product. Not saying it isn't possible, but I haven't seen anything about colored Cx4 Stroms in any of their catalogs and no mention was made of it at Shot Show.