USNDOC brings up a good point-I'd like to hear from someone who has asked him about this personally. I'd like to think that this is a communications issue, or a personal scrap involving a staffer. Hopefully it's not a case of willfully cutting off the voice of your base to draw in more moderates. If Kilgore is involved in meet and greet events with gunowners, such as the one above, it seems odd that he would willfully snub another large group of well organized gunowners.
I'm not quite sure why he would snub the VCDL Q&A when he's been a good supporter of CHP issues (such as reciprocity) over the last few years.

I will order a couple hundred if y'all will promise me to get 'em (and the word) out.

Quoted: photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=42035 I will order a couple hundred if y'all will promise me to get 'em (and the word) out.

Sure would get it on the truck and would perhaps take one past Kilgores election office in Sterling to show them.

Bulldog, I will take a few and pass them around.  You might want to check with Philip first though.  With the new campaign finance reform, you might be making an illegal contribution to his non-existant campaign. :-)

Quoted: Bulldog, I will take a few and pass them around.  You might want to check with Philip first though.  With the new campaign finance reform, you might be making an illegal contribution to his non-existant campaign. :-)

Won't be an issue... CFR is on the federal level only.  Anyway, haven't you ever seen the Ted Nugent for President stickers???  LOL

I'd like a few of those stickers as well... Where do I send funds?

Mike

Originally Posted By Hard Rock: Quoted: Bulldog, I will take a few and pass them around.  You might want to check with Philip first though.  With the new campaign finance reform, you might be making an illegal contribution to his non-existant campaign. :-) Won't be an issue... CFR is on the federal level only.  Anyway, haven't you ever seen the Ted Nugent for President stickers???  LOL I'd like a few of those stickers as well... Where do I send funds? Mike

I just ordered 250!

IM me and let me know how many you'd like....2 for a dollar.

Quoted: I'd like to think that this is a communications issue, or a personal scrap involving a staffer.

I can't speak for Kilgore's campaign, but I do know that as a former spokeswoman for several groups (including SAS and GOA) that when you're being questioned by the media, it's not your job to answer questions.  Your job is to push the group's message.  I'm sure there have been many times that you've screamed "ANSWER THE F***ING QUESTION STUPID!!" when some political hack is on tv or talk radio.

So, either the official spokesperson for Kilgore's campaign didn't stay on message when asked about VCDL by simply responding "Well, we filled out the NRA survey and we have their endorsement, Kilgore has a long, well-known record as a supporter of gun rights, his opponent is the anti-Christ on this issue, blah blah blah..." OR the insult to PVC is the campaign's official position.  Since 1) the Kilgore campaign hasn't apologized, and 2) Tucker is still on the payroll, I'd bet on the latter.

BTW if any of you are in eastern Loudoun or western Fairfax county, y'all come out to SterlingFest this Saturday between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m.  Kilgore's folks will be at the Loudoun Republican Committee booth, and I'm sure they'd love to hear from you...

I'm writing in Philip Van Cleave too.  no doubt. this is horseshit. Before I had my VA drivers license - and NRA range card! - I had my VCDL card.  For a reason.

NRA-ILA is interested in getting their constituency to rally around Kilgore.  From an E-mail message received yesterday (with pro-Kilgore advertising material redacted):

Election Day is nearly at hand, and we need to do everything we can to ensure that NRA-PVF's endorsed candidate for Governor, Jerry Kilgore (R), is elected to office on November 8th. Volunteers like yourself from across the state are joining together in these final weeks to help the Kilgore campaign. Activities will include knocking on doors and making phone calls to neighbors. ... Please accept this invitation to help Jerry out. Contact the campaign at [email protected], call (202) 863-8610, ... to reserve your spot now. ... Sincerely, NRA-ILA P.S. Even if you can't make a Saturday or don't live in Northern Virginia, the campaign can still use your help. Contact them at (804) 421-9966 or [email protected] to find out what you can do in your area to elect Jerry Kilgore governor!

Here is my response to this request:

> From: LarryCWDC <[email protected]> > Subject: Support for Mr. Kilgore's Candidacy > To: [email protected], [email protected] > CC: [email protected] Hi, As a recipient of the (5 Oct 2005) NRA-ILA clarion call to support the candidacy of Mr. Kilgore, I just wanted to let you know that until Mr. Kilgore repudiates -- in word and deed -- his comments about Philip Van Cleave, I shall do everything in my power to ensure that concerned Virginia gunowners cast a write-in vote for "Philip Van Cleave" in the upcoming gubernatorial election instead of voting for Mr. Kilgore.   If this response, or my stance, surprises you, please read the information at the following web-sites for some rationale.  (I'd be happy to provide additional references if you desire.) 1.  A thread titled, "WTF is with Kilgore's campaign? Did you read the latest from VCDL?" at the following URL: > http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=24&t=211454 2.  A thread titled, "Philip Van Cleave for Governor...." at the following URL: > http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=24&t=211596 3.  A thread titled, "Article in Washington Times on Kilgore Campaign and VCDL (Virginia)" at the following URL: > http://www.packing.org/community/laws_politics/listview/2632 (An update to her original article is rumored to appear tomorrow, 7 Oct 2005.) Mr. Kilgore can secure my vote by taking at least the following actions: -  Completing the VCDL questionnaire and submitting it to that organization such that the results are available to Virginia voters within the timeframe established months ago by VCDL when it originally provided the questionnaire to Mr. Kilgore. -  By the date VCDL has targeted for publishing the results of their candidate-survey questionnaire, firing the staffer(s) who have articulated denigrating comments about Philip Van Cleave that have been published in the media, unless such staff have already resigned. -  Undertaking whatever actions are necessary to rehabilitate the damage to the credibility of Philip Van Cleave's efforts on behalf of Virginia's citizens concerned about their right to keep and bear arms caused by the Kilgore campaign.  Mr. Kilgore's 'strong endorsement' of Mr. Van Cleave's 'unflagging efforts on behalf of Virginia gunowners' would satisfy this criterion. I look forward to learning of purposive action in this regard by the Kilgore campaign, after which time I will reconsider my stance. Regards, LarryCWDC PS.  NRA's Pontius-Pilate-like response to the apparently unlawful efforts by the BATFE in the Richmond area -- in which Commonwealth citizens with the misfortune of living in high-crime areas were subjected to potentially illegal scrutiny while attempting to purchase firearms -- and their current stance with respect to the candidacy of Mr. Kilgore has ensured my membership in more fitting advocacy organizations.

I believe that the Kilgore campaign ... and the GOP ... might benefit from learning the opinions of others involved in this discussion, without regard to your stance.

Returned my Kilgore for Governor yard sign and bumper sticker to Jerry's brother's law office.  They didn't understand why I was returning the sign.  Kilgore has an A NRA rating!  So what?

The guy (Kilgore's office partner) didn't even know what the VCDL was.

Left more pissed off than I was before I went in.

They didn't like it too much when I told them I wouldn't be voting for Kilgore.

Quoted: PS.  NRA's Pontius-Pilate-like response to the apparently unlawful efforts by the BATFE in the Richmond area -- in which Commonwealth citizens with the misfortune of living in high-crime areas were subjected to potentially illegal scrutiny while attempting to purchase firearms -- and their current stance with respect to the candidacy of Mr. Kilgore has ensured my membership in more fitting advocacy organizations.

Beautiful.

Quoted: Quoted: PS.  NRA's Pontius-Pilate-like response to the apparently unlawful efforts by the BATFE in the Richmond area -- in which Commonwealth citizens with the misfortune of living in high-crime areas were subjected to potentially illegal scrutiny while attempting to purchase firearms -- and their current stance with respect to the candidacy of Mr. Kilgore has ensured my membership in more fitting advocacy organizations. Beautiful.

Wouldn't it be nice to see an ACDL - American Citizens Defense League.

I'm really confused now. Wouldn't it be better to vote for Kilgore based upon his past record to keep out Kaine and his past record? Are we not taking this a bit to personal? I am appalled at the comments against Phillip but at the same time, I would hate for Kaine to get in by a few votes. I'm not a fan of biting off my nose to spite my face.

I thought actions speak louder than words. Could Kilgore's strategy be to keep a poker face wrt his gun position and once in office, act like he has in the past? Frankly, we don't have any good options and we must carelfully vote in the non-Govenor races.

I'm sure I'm seeing this all wrong.....what am I missing?

Bomber

Quoted: I'm really confused now. Wouldn't it be better to vote for Kilgore based upon his past record to keep out Kaine and his past record? Are we not taking this a bit to personal? I am appalled at the comments against Phillip but at the same time, I would hate for Kaine to get in by a few votes. I'm not a fan of biting off my nose to spite my face. I thought actions speak louder than words. Could Kilgore's strategy be to keep a poker face wrt his gun position and once in office, act like he has in the past? Frankly, we don't have any good options and we must carelfully vote in the non-Govenor races. I'm sure I'm seeing this all wrong.....what am I missing? Bomber

No offense but you are seeing it the way the current status quo Republicans want you to see it.  This is a multi-sided issue with the catalyst of the problem being how Kilgore has treated Philip and VCDL.  The current Republican leadership thinks that we can be taken for granted and they don't want to rock the boat.  

Now as I've stated before, this is a situation where even if Kaine wins, we won't lose on gun rights... here's why and I'm going to expand on it too...

1.  We control the Legislature and the Senate.  If Kilgore wins and wants a specific gun control measure through the Republican controlled legislators will most likely get it passed.  If Kaine however wins and wants gun control, do you think the Republicans are going to be willing to work with him?

2.  Gun owners have historically done better when there is a Governor of one party and the Legislature and Senate are controlled by the other party.  Case in point is Allen's reign and Mark Warner's reign.  When one side controls both, we usually take it in the back end... case in point, Gilmore and Wilder.

Now, with the above aside, by doing the write in campaign, we force the political powers to move right on the issue of gun rights.  Not only in Virginia but this will have a tsunami effect across the country.  Here's why...

We gun owners have given the Republicans the majority since 1994.  We took control of the House and Senate for them yet, what have we gotten in return?  Sure, they let the AW ban sunset but that was a no effort event.  What pro-firearms rights legislation has been submitted, passed and signed into law by the President we helped get elected?

We once again rose to the occasion by being the driving force behind ousting Dashle.  What have we gotten for thanks for that effort?  Nothing.  

By doing this write in campaign, we are effectively telling the Republican party that they need to show their appreciation by getting things done for us.  A good start would be the five items listed below... they do these and I'm willing to bet that you'll see a much higher turn out in future elections and a much higher percentage for pro-gun Republicans.  Not to mention a very high increase in donations...

1.  Nationwide Concealed carry for all.
2.  Repeal the "sporting purpose" language from ALL gun related law.
3.  Repeal the 1986 machine gun ban.
4.  Incorporate the 2nd Amendment under the 14th Amendment (civil rights protection)
5.  Release the slated to be destroyed surplus M14 rifles to the CMP for civilian consumption.

There are more but these five address several critical areas that would galvanize gun owners in the US.

This help you understand better?

Mike

In today's Winchester Star:

Kilgore Touts NRA Support

By Charlie Jackson
The Winchester Star


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jerry Kilgore came. Jerry Kilgore left.

The Republican gubernatorial candidate made a pit stop at the Winchester Regional Airport Thursday morning to tout his endorsement from the National Rifle Association.

About 50 locals crowded the podium that was underneath a bright orange sign that read: “Sportsmen for Kilgore.”

Most onlookers were delighted. A few gun rights activists weren’t as pleased.  
Republican gubernatorial candidate Jerry Kilgore shakes hands with supporter Kim Bishop of Strasburg during a brief campaign rally at Winchester Regional Airport. Kilgore flew in to discuss his recent endorsement from the National Rifle Association.
(Photo by Ginger Perry)

For the better part of 20 minutes, Kilgore tossed verbal barbs at Democratic opponent Tim Kaine. The partisan crowd enjoyed the attacks.

“When it comes to the Second Amendment, Tim Kaine is too liberal to be governor of Virginia,” Kilgore said to applause.

But not everyone gathered in the airport’s atrium room was ecstatic.

Mike McHugh, president of the Virginia Gun Owners Coalition, distributed fliers slamming Kilgore for refusing to “put his pro-gun promises in writing.”

Kilgore did not answer a survey put out by the Virginia Citizens Defense League that asked candidates, among other things, their stance on repealing the state’s ban on concealed weapons in bars. The VCDL would like to see the ban repealed.

Kaine completed the survey. Kilgore and independent gubernatorial candidate H. Russell Potts Jr. of Winchester did not complete the survey.

Kilgore said after the brief rally that his campaign doesn’t have time to respond to every survey.

Delacey Skinner, press secretary for Kaine’s campaign, said the lieutenant governor completed the survey to offer his position.

“We have absolutely nothing to hide,” Skinner said. “We have nothing to be ashamed about in terms of his record.”

The Republican candidate was flanked by NRA Executive Director Wayne LaPierre, who lauded Kilgore’s stance on guns.

LaPierre said Kaine “has been right there with [Massachusetts Democratic Sen.] Ted Kennedy when it comes to gun rights.”

Kilgore holds an “A” rating from the NRA, while Kaine received an “F” from the pro-gun organization.

Skinner defended Kaine’s gun record.

“Tim Kaine is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, and will protect gun owners’ rights and protect the rights of those who hunt and fish,” he said.

LaPierre was scheduled to join Kilgore at additional stops Thursday in Harrisonburg, Weyers Cave, Roanoke, Abingdon, and Danville for similar rallies.

I posted the Wast Times article on freerepublic & debating a Kilgore apologist.


www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1498453/posts

Originally Posted By Hard Rock: No offense but you are seeing it the way the current status quo Republicans want you to see it.  This is a multi-sided issue with the catalyst of the problem being how Kilgore has treated Philip and VCDL.  The current Republican leadership thinks that we can be taken for granted and they don't want to rock the boat.

That's my biggest problem with all this.

The VCDL seems to be getting snubbed by Kilgore for what appears to be a personal problem with PVC for whatever reason and the idea that the 'gun issue isn't a hot button item this year'.  (or close to that quote)

I don't appreciate being used as a topic du'jour for each election, just to be completely ignored when the political winds aren't blowing from this direction for the next.

I certainly don't like Kaine, but Kilgore is daft if he thinks that will make me vote for him.  PVC for Govenor!  Not to mention the latest round of attack adds put out by Kilgore are really just annoying.  FFS, explain yourself and your plans, don't just jump up and down screaming "Kaine's too liberal!  He's too liberal! OMG Look out he's too liberal!"  Sheesh.....calm down son.

Gee, look what showed up in my mailbox today!






Hmm, and I only got 250 of them too!

Quoted: Gee, look what showed up in my mailbox today! photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=42062 Hmm, and I only got 250 of them too!

Heh, sweet!

Where you gonna be this weekend, I may need a pair of those.  IM me.

Quoted: I'm really confused now. Wouldn't it be better to vote for Kilgore based upon his past record to keep out Kaine and his past record? Are we not taking this a bit to personal? I am appalled at the comments against Phillip but at the same time, I would hate for Kaine to get in by a few votes. I'm not a fan of biting off my nose to spite my face. I thought actions speak louder than words. Could Kilgore's strategy be to keep a poker face wrt his gun position and once in office, act like he has in the past? Frankly, we don't have any good options and we must carelfully vote in the non-Govenor races. I'm sure I'm seeing this all wrong.....what am I missing? Bomber

I'm not jumping for joy about the choices offered, but I think not voting for Kilgore is a choice that has to be seriously considered. I don't think the snub of the VCDL can be underestimated. They are the group that acts locally to protect our rights within Virginia. The NRA...well, I don't want to say that they don't care about Virginia, but their focus is undoubtedly on larger national issues. Further, as a political organization, they've shown a willingness to compromise that doesn't always help gunwoners (IMHO).

Kilgore has offered excuse after excuse to not answer the survey (don't give me that "it's his people" crapola), and now that he has the NRA endorsement, he attacks the credibility of the leading grassroots gun owners group in Virginia, the group that has managed to get a lot done in the last few years. Not only is that detrimental to all of us in the VCDL, it bodes ill for what Kilgore is willing to do for gun owners. To simply decline to answer the survey is one thing. To toss it aside and claim it means nothing...well, you figure it out.

Bottom line: regardless of whatever sappy pine knot makes it into Richmond, I think Hard Rock has the right idea. All is not lost. I think it is important to send the message. If it's important enough to risk putting Kaine into office, that's up to each of us to decide.

For me, it is.