Here's the full text of item #2 in the weekly update:

------------------

Sitting down?  I wish I had been when reporter Christina Bellantoni gave me this quote on Friday:

  "While we have great respect for the members of the VCDL, their President
  Phillip Van Cleave unfortunately has no credibility on Second Amendment
  issues and that is why we did not participate [in the VCDL Candidate Survey],"
  Mr. Martin [Kilgore campaign spokesman] said, declining to elaborate.

Well, here we go again.  Kilgore's campaign workers continue to make up a different excuse each week for not filling in the VCDL survey. Let's see, so far they have said:

* Kilgore has never received the survey (but it was handed to him personally, sent certified mail, and emailed to him).
* There was one question that Kilgore didn't want to take a position on and that was why he declined to answer any of the questions.
* The survey was on Kilgore's desk awaiting his signature.
* Philip Van Cleave is too hard to work with.
* The NRA survey and the VCDL survey are the same and they didn't see why both needed to be answered.  (I have seen the NRA survey and it is nothing like the VCDL survey.)
* Philip Van Cleave is antagonistic because he said the Kilgore campaign is following the Earley playbook.  And now:
* Philip Van Cleave has no credibility on Second Amendment issues

Looking at all the personal attacks on me by the Kilgore campaign staffers (three so far and counting), it looks like they are hoping to drive a political wedge between you and me.

All I can say at this point is that Jerry Kilgore needs to reign in his campaign worker's overactive imaginations and fill in the VCDL survey.  Time is running out - VCDL will not accept any new surveys the second that the existing surveys are posted on the VCDL site.  To do so would be unfair to the other candidates.  The surveys and voting records of candidates will be posted the week of October 10th for you to evaluate.

I would like to thank the House Majority Leader, Deletate Morgan Griffith (Salem), for his kind words.

If you would like o contact the Kilgore campaign, here is Carrie Cantrel's email (she is his policy director as I recall):

[email protected]

Reporter Christina Bellantoni did an excellent job in covering the issues:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20050930-110728-7266r.htm

Key gun lobby sits out election
By Christina Bellantoni
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published October 1, 2005

A key Virginia gun rights lobby said yesterday that it will not endorse a candidate in the gubernatorial race but is urging its members not to sit out the election, as many did in 2001.

    Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL), yesterday said Democrat Timothy M. Kaine was the only candidate to complete the group's survey on gun issues.

    Republican Jerry W. Kilgore, who has the backing of the National Rifle Association, did not submit the survey, nor did independent candidate H. Russell Potts Jr.

    "We don't have enough information to endorse anybody," Mr. Van Cleave said.

    Both the VCDL and NRA declined to endorse candidates in the 2001 race between Republican Mark L. Earley and Democrat Mark Warner. However, two weeks before the election, the NRA sent a letter urging members to vote for Mr. Earley.
    Mr. Van Cleave said many voters stayed home because they were "disenchanted" with the Earley campaign. He is urging members to vote Nov. 8, even if they skip a choice for governor.

    "We understand that many of you are considering sitting out the election due to the lack of a standout pro-gun candidate in the governor's race. Go to the polls and vote," the group writes in a newsletter, noting the importance of other statewide races and contests for the House of Delegates.

    The VCDL's newsletter and endorsements reach about 7,000 people.

    Meanwhile, the group's political action committee yesterday endorsed Republican William T. Bolling for lieutenant governor.
    Mr. Kilgore will not be seeking the group's endorsement, campaign spokesman Tucker Martin said.

    "While we have great respect for the members of the VCDL, their President Phillip Van Cleave unfortunately has no credibility on Second Amendment issues and that is why we did not participate," Mr. Martin said, declining to elaborate.

    Mr. Van Cleave laughed when he heard Mr. Martin's comment.

    "I have no idea where that's coming from," he said. "I'm sorry to hear them say that. We've been nothing but polite to that campaign. That answer is not going to fly."

    House Majority Leader H. Morgan Griffith, Salem Republican, also was confused by the comment and called Mr. Van Cleave "credible."
    "I like Phillip," he said. "He's a sincere and knowledgeable individual when it comes to protecting gun rights."

    Mr. Griffith, however, has not returned his VCDL survey, which includes questions about where candidates stand on efforts to repeal the ban on concealed weapons in bars. VCDL wants to repeal the ban.

    Mr. Martin said the NRA is "lock, stock and barrel behind us."

    The NRA gubernatorial endorsement is forthcoming, with Mr. Kilgore having an "A" rating and Mr. Kaine an "F" rating.

    The group has criticized Mr. Kaine for chartering buses to take participants to the Million Mom March gun-control rally in the District in 2000. Mr. Kaine, who was mayor of Richmond at the time, has said he was showing sympathy for gun-crime victims.

    VCDL's newsletter said Mr. Kaine's record as mayor of Richmond is "of concern."

    Gun-rights advocates may be a small voting bloc, but polls show the race is tied between Mr. Kaine and Mr. Kilgore. A small portion of the electorate could swing the election.

    The NRA says that more than 115,000 state members vote solely on gun-rights issues.

    The VCDL announcement was made one day after the NRA issued a rare endorsement of a Democrat for attorney general.

    The NRA endorsed R. Creigh Deeds, a state senator from Bath County, for his sponsorship of a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to hunt, fish and trap game.

    VCDL declined to endorse Mr. Deeds or Robert F. McDonnell, a Republican delegate from Virginia Beach, because the two hold similar positions.

    "The gun owner can't lose one way or another on these two candidates," Mr. Van Cleave said.

--------------------

My head about exploded when I read that. I emailed the Kilgore campaign. We'll see if I get a response. Disappointing.....

Kilgore recognizes he doesn't need VCDL's endorsement, and frankly, may feel he's likely better off without it...

I know someone who works DIRECTLY for his campaign.

We've gotten into VERY heated arguements about this.

We're no longer talking.

ETA, thats fine, I won't vote for Gov.

You know, I was kind of willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until this....

Thanks for posting, Benny.  People need to see this bologne.

    Black Fox

I just requested some Kaine bumperstickers (also requested some small shirt stickers).  I figure I'll wear a Kaine sticker to the gun show in two weeks and walk slowly by the Kilgore table.  Should be interesting.

When's the election?  Don't think I'm stupid; I'm in new-baby-zombie-mode.......I'm lucky I can remember my name.

Quoted: When's the election?  Don't think I'm stupid; I'm in new-baby-zombie-mode.......I'm lucky I can remember my name.

Nov. 8th

Quoted: Quoted: Nov. 8th

November 9 if you are a democrat..
dd

So I'm wondering what "has no credibility" actually means.  Does it mean 1)  "We believe him to be a liar, cheat, thief, etc.", or 2) "We believe him to be of no consequence".  The truth is quite the opposite of both, of course.  I e-mailed Mr. Martin (cc'ed the campaign manager) but after hearing other responses (such as bulldog's and a friend who spoke to Kilgore personally) I doubt I'll get a reply, or a flippant one.

Very disappointing.  I hope I misinterpreted the statement, but it sounds like that's someone I don't want to vote for.

Quoted: I know someone who works DIRECTLY for his campaign. We've gotten into VERY heated arguements about this.

Not to get into this, but I'm just wondering.  Are his comments in line with what we've been seeing the VCDL has been reporting back from talking to the campaign staff?

I am very disapointed to hear this. However I will not cast a "no" vote and allow Tim Kaine to become governor.  I will vote for Kilgore only as a way to prevent something worse.  I wish the Virginia GOP would find some better candidates.  

I miss George Allen.

Quoted: So I'm wondering what "has no credibility" actually means.  Does it mean..."We believe him to be of no consequence".

I think that's your answer right there. Kaine answered, and VCDL is obviously displeased with his responses. Thus, if Kilgore says nothing, he wins by default. I don't think that was the strategy from the get-go, but it's worked out that way.

I find the strategy puzzling. Why ignore the VCDL? Aren't they one of the most successful grassroots organizations in the state, if not the country? It reeks of arrogance mixed with ignorance, a decidedly unpleasant aroma.

Quoted: I find the strategy puzzling. Why ignore the VCDL? Aren't they one of the most successful grassroots organizations in the state, if not the country? It reeks of arrogance mixed with ignorance, a decidedly unpleasant aroma.

i have the same problem.  What to do?  I am obviously an NRA supporter but the VCDL is what gets teh sh$t done here.

I find Kigore's response problematic in that he seems to want to avoid taking a stand on gun rights now that he has an NRA endoresement.  

When we have last had a Republican Governor - Gilmore - we found it difficult to get any votes on pro-gun rights bills. Worse, the Gilmore adminstration worked to compromise gun rights  by supporting fingerprinting of permit holders on a local level.

When we have a Democratic governor who postures pro-gun the Republicans and pro-gun Dems are willing to send gun bills to the Governors desk. Warner has been the best Governor on gun rights issues since Allen and is superior in that he hasn't used his office/influence to quash any gun rights bills. In particular Warner signed a bill to overturning an Alexandria gun ban - Gilmore would have weasleed out on it.  Allen supported concealed carry reform but not much else while he was in office - he would not allow one-gun-amonth to be overturned.

I doubt gun rights would suffer if Kaine became governor - I would lean toward Kilgore except he seems to be under sway of anti-gun consultants. If Kilgore is elected we proabbly wouldn't lose ground but I doubt any pro-gun bills get passed.

This really bums me out.  I am a conservative.  I will not vote for a Democrat, but I will also not vote for a Republican who does not have a backbone on the gun issue.  I will not vote for governor unless something dramatic changes between now and the election.  

What a pisser.

Quoted: Quoted: I know someone who works DIRECTLY for his campaign. We've gotten into VERY heated arguements about this. Not to get into this, but I'm just wondering.  Are his comments in line with what we've been seeing the VCDL has been reporting back from talking to the campaign staff?

Hers. Yes.

ETA: I'm writing in Philip Van Cleave for Gov!

Now you know why I have not asked for assistance for the campaign, I have went around and around with the NRA over this and I refuse on the grounds that something smells with this.

Quoted: Now you know why I have not asked for assistance for the campaign, I have went around and around with the NRA over this and I refuse on the grounds that something smells with this.

Oh I don't like the sound of that at all.

Damn timely thread, considering I just received my new voter registration card in the mail.

Don't forget, ladies and gents, to write-in Mickey Mouse for Governor.

Are the Libertarians running somebody? Just curious.

TR

I sent off an email to the Kilgore campaign also.  We'll see if I get a response.
If his campaing doesn't change its tune, I'll be abstaining from the governor race.

I am beginning to wonder just what is going on with the NRA.  I'm a Life member and this isn't the first time the NRA and VCDL have been at loggerheads with each other.

This is sad.  So far of the three statewide races, I'm only planning to vote for Bolling for Lt Gov.

This was also a very stupid move by the Kilgore campaign.  The latest polls have him running neck-and-neck (45% / 45%) with Kaine.  Neither can afford to alienate any voters at this point.

The good news is that even if Kaine gets elected, the Dems won't take back the House of Delegates.  Given the current makeup of the M&P committee, there's no way any gun-control bills will get past it.  So, at worst we have four years of an impasse with the anti's if Kilgore loses.

I'm pulling all the Kilgore stickers from my vehicles and I'm not voting in that race.  Kilgore just lost a vote here with that load of crap that his people are putting out.  I hope everyone goes and votes but maybe by skipping the Gov. race, a message will be sent that gun owners are a force in Virginia.

Mike

Quoted: Damn timely thread, considering I just received my new voter registration card in the mail. Don't forget, ladies and gents, to write-in Mickey Mouse Philip Van Cleve for Governor. Are the Libertarians running somebody? Just curious. TR

Hey, if enough of us do it the media will HAVE to report it the next day, tweaking assclown Kilgore all the more!

Van Cleve for governor it is.  I like that a lot better than not voting.  Its still a wasted vote, but at least one that lets the winner know what I was thinking.

If you're going to do a write-in, make sure you spell his name right since different spellings will all be counted separately.

Philip Van Cleave

Or we could make it easy and write in 'VCDL'.

Looks like this is happening nation-wide.  The people who we have elected to vote as conservatives/libertarians have dropped the ball and are turning their backs on the base.

Down here in Christainsburg we are continually being blasted with these stupid negative Kilgore ads.  All they do is say bad things about Kaine and never mention really what Kilgore stands for.  THe only thing that I have learned about Kilgore is that: 1) Increase spending on education (negative points)2) Tougher laws on  people who manufacture meth (that isn't going to help the problem) 3) Death penalty for gang members who sanction hits (woopidy doo)  4)May cut taxes 5) Was raised on a farm

It would be nice to have someone actually get out and make speaches about freedom, now what the government is going to do.  

ETA:  I am thinking that this would be a good time for us gun rights/pro-freedom thinkers to send a message that the Republican party has left us.  I will vote third party as well

Since this was the first Governor election I was going to vote in, I guess I will go and vote for Philip Van Cleave instead of Kilgore as I had planned based on the NRA-ILA recommendation.

Quoted: ETA:  I am thinking that this would be a good time for us gun rights/pro-freedom thinkers to send a message that the Republican party has left us.  I will vote third party as well

The thrid party in this election is Potts and he's a putz.  He's not the message that gun owners need to send.

Quoted: Quoted: ETA:  I am thinking that this would be a good time for us gun rights/pro-freedom thinkers to send a message that the Republican party has left us.  I will vote third party as well The thrid party in this election is Potts and he's a putz.  He's not the message that gun owners need to send.

I ment to say that I was going to vote for Philip Van Cleave, I guess I should have called him a 4th party candidate.

Quoted: I ment to say that I was going to vote for Philip Van Cleave, I guess I should have called him a 4th party candidate.

Ah.  Gotcha.  Potts is certainly an easy one to forget.

Philip Van Cleave it is!  I e-mailed Kilgore's campaign last week telling them I would not vote for him and why.  Now I have a candidate I can support.  Thanks to the list for the idea, much better than Mickey Mouse or 'none of the above'.

Philip it is then... I can do that.  Maybe  that is a strong message that will wake up the Republicans...

Mike

Quoted: If you're going to do a write-in, make sure you spell his name right since different spellings will all be counted separately. Philip Van Cleave Or we could make it easy and write in 'VCDL'.

Got it....thanmks for the correction!

Email sent to Carrie Cantrel.

Hopefully the rest of you send email too.....

I called her... she's not answering either her office phone or her cell phone.  I also spoke to another person with whom I didn't get a name (my bad) who gave me a total crock of crap on this issue.  I've had it up to my eyeballs with this situation.  I wash my hands of the Kilgore campaign and if they want their literature out in my district for events and on election day they can do it themselves... I'm not going to waste my time.  

Mike

Originally Posted By Hard Rock: I called her... she's not answering either her office phone or her cell phone.  I also spoke to another person with whom I didn't get a name (my bad) who gave me a total crock of crap on this issue.  I've had it up to my eyeballs with this situation.  I wash my hands of the Kilgore campaign and if they want their literature out in my district for events and on election day they can do it themselves... I'm not going to waste my time.   Mike

I assume they will have a table at the show this weekend in Manassas.  Perhaps they could use a bit of a reminder while they are there.

My letter:

To whom it may concern,

       My name is Name Withheld, and I am a registered Republican and a very strong supporter of the Second Amendment. As a Virginian and a believer in the Second Amendment, I naturally back Virginia Citizens Defense League(VCDL), one of the best grassroots pro gun organizations in the country.
      As you more than likely know only one out of three candidates for Virginia's Governor's race has responded to VCDL's survey. Recently I heard of the accusations that have come out of the Kilgore camp saying that Philip Van Cleave(which also means VCDL) has no credibility on the Second Amendment. I am shocked and disguisted. I would never have expected such an ignorant comment to come from this campaign. Up until I had read that comment I was a very strong supporter of Jerry Kilgore, even though he had not responded to the VCDL survey. I can no longer cast my vote for Jerry Kilgore. As your campaign more than likely knows this race is basically neck and neck, and it does not do the Kilgore campaign any good to alienate some 4000+ members of VCDL. Four thousand may not seem like a lot to you, but if you have ever worked in the business industry you know that when one customer has a bad experience he tells someone else, who tells someone elese. Well now you have 4000 customers who just had a VERY bad experience.

Thank you for your time,

Name Withheld

I'll be at Sterlingfest this weekend working the Republican booth.  Needless to say, I'm not going to be actively supporitng Kilgore... Like I said, if he wants his stuff out at the event, he can send his own people to put it out and hand it out.  I'm not doing it and if they come and drop it off and leave like last year, I'm shoving it under the table to free up space on the table for REAL conservative Republicans.

Mike

The Kilgore campaign has removed all campaign staff contact info from their website.  Thankfully I had all of their email addresses from an earlier email I sent.

I have a sign in my yard, a sign that my wife went to great trouble to get.  It will returned on Wednesday and I will be sure to tell them why I am returning it.

I don't really blame Jerry for this.  I blame the people he has surrounded himself with.  They want to court the soccer mom voters in eastern VA.  They don't want to take a stand on a single damn issue.  They just run the opposite of what Kaine wants to do.

Although I'm not a VA resident I've been watching this campaign somewhat closely. I don't understand what  Mr. Kilgore hopes to gain from his snub of the VCDL. His decision isn't well considered and will wind up bring him unwanted scrutiny from both sides of the gun issue.  After this he's likely to face questions about his stand he otherwise wouldn't have had to entertain.

Quoted: I don't really blame Jerry for this.  I blame the people he has surrounded himself with.  They want to court the soccer mom voters in eastern VA.  They don't want to take a stand on a single damn issue.  They just run the opposite of what Kaine wants to do.

That's the thing that's killing me to know.  Does the guy REALLY know what his campaigners are doing 'for' him or is he oblivious.  I'd love to just get the answer right from him.  We need someone with press credentials to get into a Q&A and pop that question to him.

Kilgore was a no show at a debate with Kaine and Potts at GMU on the 30th. They left a podium in case he changed his mind and decide to show up.

Something else to think about... Kilgore has also neglected/ignored/snubbed a few pro-life groups survey's as well.  

Spread the word for the write in campaign and make sure you get people out to vote at least for Bolling...

Mike

I e-mailed the campaign yesterday afternoon.  No response yet.  I find the whole thing rather unbelieveable.  FWIW, here is the letter I sent.

I have been a conservative Republican since I was old enough to vote.  This will be the first gubernatorial election in which I will not for for the Republican candidate and its because of the campaign's words about the VCDL and its leader, Philip Van Cleave.  

I can understand why some in the Kilgore campaign would want to keep its distance from the VCDL.  Unlike the NRA, the VCDL isn't about compromise and political correctness.  That can be uncomfortable for a candidate who needs votes in Northern Virginia.  Keeping its distance and doing what was done are two entirely different things though.  

When a campaign spokesman says ""While we have great respect for the members of the VCDL, their President Phillip Van Cleave unfortunately has no credibility on Second Amendment issues and that is why we did not participate [in the VCDL Candidate Survey]," to a reporter, what is he trying to accomplish?  The ramifications of this are not minor.  The VCDL has been a strong force in Richmond and has been very effective at lobbying legislators on gun owner's issues.  How will those legislators now view the VCDL and Mr. Van Cleave?  Their credibility has been harmed by the words of Mr. Martin.  
Unless something dramatic happens very soon, this will be the first election where I will actually write-in a candidate.  I can't bring myself to vote for Kaine or Potts, but I will not vote for a man who has gone out of his way to damage the most effective lobby gun owner's have in our Commonwealth.

Steven Clifford

Don't expect an email response from the Kilgore campaign.  I've sent many emails over the last 6 months and have yet to get a single response.  About all I've gotten from them are fund raising letters and an application for an absentee ballot.

Kilgore = Gilmore?

Something that has been running through my head over the last few days.

Don't waste your time emailing them... call them instead... make them listen to all of us.  

804-421-9966

Enjoy and have fun... don't cuss them out but be polite but firm about this matter... report the responses you get here so we have a documented record for future use.

Mike

Quoted: I doubt gun rights would suffer if Kaine became governor - I would lean toward Kilgore except he seems to be under sway of anti-gun consultants. If Kilgore is elected we proabbly wouldn't lose ground but I doubt any pro-gun bills get passed.

I agree Paul. It seems odd that, as close as the race appears to be, Kilgore is under the impression that its in the bag. We cannot afford to let politicians take us for granted. The way I look at it, if all of VCDL's membership convinced their friends and families to write in "Phillip VanCleave" for governor on Nov 8, there would be enough votes to really get noticed, and Jerry Kilgore would see exactly what did him in, and Kaine and all of the other members of the assembly had better take notice as well.

Of course there's always the danger that Phil could win

I just spoke with a unofficial compaigner at work.  He sent me this as an opportunity to talk to him:

GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE JERRY KILGORE AND

NRA CEO WAYNE LAPIERRE AT WEYERS CAVE AIRPORT

WHO:  The next Governor of Virginia, Jerry Kilgore and NRA Celebrity-CEO Wayne LaPierre

WHAT:  Statewide Fly-Around Tour!

WHEN:  Thursday, October 6th at 11:30am

WHERE:  Roanoke Regional Airport, Piedmont Hawthorne Aviation, 22 Waypoint Drive, Roanoke

WHY:   -To thank Virginia Gun Owners for their unwavering commitment to defending the Second Amendment.

    -To hear how Jerry and Wayne have fought for Gun-Owner rights for their entire career.

    -To hear why Jerry Kilgore has earned an “A” rating from the NRA and to hear why his ultra-liberal extremist opponent,

      Tim Kaine, has earned a well deserved “F” from the NRA, and how he has been a “true enemy of Virginia gun-owners.”

Help us build a crowd and show the Dems who stands strong on the 2nd Amendment!!!              

PLEASE R.S.V.P. TO:

Trixie Averill
6th District Field Director
Virginians for Jerry Kilgore
540-890-6519 (o)
540-798-6519 (cell)

My friend was befuddled as to why Kilgore has not responded.

Kilgore PDF flyer on 2nd Amendment