Milling an 80%...It ain't foolproof!

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Milling an 80%...It ain't foolproof! (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 7/7/2018 10:21:04 AM EDT

Last night, I finally had everything I needed to mill out one of my 80% raw lowers. 5D Tactical pro jig/end mill, drill bits, shop vac, vise, WD40, gloves, etc. I knew this was just going to be a test run so I could see what the process is like. And it was a learning experience. However, the end result has me somewhat concerned because I'm not quite sure how some of the imperfections happened. I have not tried dropping in an LPK to see if it functions.

I'll try to get some pics up tonight, but to describe the two primary issues....

1) The trigger hole is miscut. The oval looks ok on three "sides" but the one long edge is wavy. I cannot tell if it's over cut or under cut (too big or too small). There was also a thick burr sticking out from the bottom of the hole that I had to pull off with pliers and file.

2) Therei's a thin line/step of metal right below the midpoint in the fire control pocket. It almost looks like I didn't go to the edge with one of the passes.

I made sure to go slow and took my time so I have no idea how either one happened or how to fix it.

Has anyone had these issues? How did they happen and what was the remedy?

Thanks!

Posted: 7/7/2018 12:45:24 PM EDT

[#1]

I've build a dozen 80% lowers with the same jig, can you post a pic? I'll try to help.

My first build was shit. I had to remount the lower in the jig and clean it up. also, try lowering the bit a little more on the 3rd and last pass, maybe 1/8" past where the jig tells to you stop that will remove any burs in the trigger hole.

The step of material can be removed gently with a file.

Posted: 7/7/2018 3:01:45 PM EDT

[#2]

How fast is your router set to? It sounds like you might be going too fast.

Posted: 7/7/2018 4:35:02 PM EDT

[#3]

Sorry for the potato (S3). But hopefully you can see the things I was trying to highlight...

This was something new I noticed...It's not real clear but on the surface there is a hump all the way down. It's maybe a a 1/4"-1/2" wide and protrudes out 1-2mm. I've built up tons of lowers...never felt that before. No clue how it happened so consistently the whole way down.

These first two also show the wavy trigger hole.

This is the underside/exterior surface of the trigger hole. You can see where the burr was ripped off. I still need to file it some.

See that lip on the bottom side here? That's what I was talking about.

In this one, see the rear of the channel...should that extra material be sticking out by the selector switch hole?

Posted: 7/7/2018 4:54:40 PM EDT

[#4]

Ive had a less then perfect trigger hole on a few cuts. It has had zero effect on the trigger. From the looks of the rear pocket cut, I don't think you will have any problems (but I could be wrong, the pic is not very "telling"). I would just try and build it and do some function tests. From what Im seeing, it should work.

Posted: 7/7/2018 5:03:36 PM EDT

[#5]

If you are worried about the rear pocket, perhaps put it back into the jig and do a bit of extra milling (to clean it up a little). Also make sure that your end mill is tight in the router for every cut (each lower you do).

Posted: 7/7/2018 5:41:37 PM EDT

[#6]

So to the guys that have done this successfully, what speed do you have your router set on and how often do you reapply WD40?

Posted: 7/7/2018 5:53:59 PM EDT

[#7]

Your trigger hole will be fine the end Mill has no support when cutting trigger hole and causes it to kick and as for the rear part from what I can tell looks good one side is wider to fit the detent and for your router speed keep it as fast as you can just move slower and take shallower passes practice makes perfect and keep milling my friend.
Oh and if the 5D jig allows you to mill trigger hole first you will have the support and perfect trigger hole
I use my rigid router at full speed and apply tap magic on every ther pass

Posted: 7/7/2018 5:59:13 PM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
So to the guys that have done this successfully, what speed do you have your router set on and how often do you reapply WD40?

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I’m running the DeWalt DWP611 and I run it on “6”, the highest speed.

Posted: 7/7/2018 6:15:25 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
So to the guys that have done this successfully, what speed do you have your router set on and how often do you reapply WD40?

View Quote

I kept it on the highest setting and used WD40 to flood each hole and before each pass because that is what I was told worked the best.

Posted: 7/7/2018 6:51:26 PM EDT

[#10]

I also run a dw611 router. I turn it on at lowest speed but immediately crank it to max before i start moving. I also run small clockwise circular pattern when milling and make small cuts. May take a little longer than others do but end up with a mirror like finish. Also apply WD between each pass after vacuuming out the flakes. I boogered up the first lower i cut not allowing the router to completely stop before pulling it out, but it was cosmetic and didn’t effect function. A little cleanup around safety and trigger pin holes for burs with a small file is common (atleast for me).

Posted: 7/7/2018 6:58:30 PM EDT

[#11]

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In this one, see the rear of the channel...should that extra material be sticking out by the selector switch hole?

https://i.imgur.com/GTsdneO.jpg

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That little ledge is proper its support for the safety detent.

Posted: 7/7/2018 8:18:24 PM EDT

[#12]

I bet that lower functions fine. The noted issues appear to only be cosmetic.

Posted: 7/7/2018 8:54:44 PM EDT

[#13]

I had the original 5D jig. Used the Dewalt router with small clockwise cuts (never go counter clockwise) and wd40 2-3 times per pass. Also I would go only half hash marks per cut instead of full hash marks. also shop vac'd out the chips every pass. It took a bit longer, but kept my end mill in good shape. I did use the max speed on the router except when doing cut hole transitions (something you do not need to worry about with the 5D PRO).

Posted: 7/7/2018 9:59:03 PM EDT

[#14]

New member and first post..but I'd like to offer my thoughts. I've milled many with this jig.

First..every time you push to an end (or corner) make sure that both sides of the router have bottomed against the jig. Failure to do so will result in a "lip".

Lube often, especially if you're running a vac. I run a vac full time, and find the it sucks the lube away. I lube twice per step. I cut away from the starter hole, back to the hole, lube again, and back to the rear pocket. Lastly, I trace the whole pocket clockwise.

What lube to use is probably a big question. I did my first few with WD40 because it was recommended. The. I switched to some very old aerosol cutting lube, the. a can of Stihl ultra I had handy. Seemed to make no difference as log as something was there.

I've played between full steps and partial steps. This matters more the deeper you go. On the latter half of the second gauge, things can get chattery, so I tend to slow down there.

On the trigger cut...no idea. It's the easiest part of the whole operation.

The only thing I can think is aluminum fluff in the working parts. I vacuum nonstop (as mentioned) but also dust with compressed air every layer and as needed.

Posted: 7/7/2018 10:00:50 PM EDT

[#15]

...one more thing....router(dewalt 611)) ran at full speed and controlled by harbor freight foot pedal!

Posted: 7/7/2018 11:24:44 PM EDT

[#16]

Should be just fine. I hate the look of the over enlarged trigger holes on the 5D Jigs and have no idea what they were smoking when they came up with that idea. I don't see what benefit it has and just makes a larger area for dirt/debris to enter the FCG area on top of being ugly. My solution is to forget the last step 3 and take some small files and/or dremel to finish that area and it looks way better. If I had a milling machine I would just clamp it in there and do a small pass. If you are not happy with the wavy-ness then go grab a set of small files for like $5 or less at Wal-Mart or wherever is closest to you and file ever so slightly until it looks flat to you.

I think ATF - tranny fluid works a bit better then WD40 and is probably cheaper overall. Probably better stuff out there then this even but it works, just dump some in before each pass.. and take note that it will drain out the bottom hole that has been drilled through like all other lubes.

One other note, your safety will likely be very tight they seem to be slightly larger size then the hole that is drilled or at least that seems to be the case from my experience. A good fix is to take some sand paper and wrap it around a drill bit and go around the inside of the safety holes on both sides, and then use some fine 1000-2000 grit sand paper to finish it off for a nice smooth surface. A much faster way if you have a dremel is to put on a sanding drum head and just very lightly go around the hole a couple times then check fit and if it fits well then sand it with 2000 grit for finishing.

The sand paper works inside the receiver as well if you would prefer it to be even smoother on the sides. While I have seen nice clean cuts on the sides I haven't ever seen any that are perfectly smooth without lines in them. Quickest way to smooth them out some is with the dremel sanding drum going lightly and then with a 240-400ish grit, then finish with a 2000 grit. You can spend as much time as you wish on making it look good if you wanted too.

Posted: 7/8/2018 8:22:10 AM EDT

[#17]

Good information in this thread. Thanks for the informative posts.

Posted: 7/8/2018 9:27:03 AM EDT

[#18]

I do not have the 5g jib, but do have the original 80% router jig. I have completed 5 lowers and have found that the trigger cut is the toughest part to keep straight and not rough up.

Posted: 7/8/2018 10:16:40 AM EDT

[#19]

WRT the safety...the only problem I had is the detent hole being too small. My first one eventually broke in, but on the rest I drilled it slightly larger.

I was not terribly happy with the included drill bits. I ended using my own substitutes.

Posted: 7/8/2018 10:47:53 AM EDT

[#20]

I have a modulus Arms jig and now the gen 2 80%arms and the modulus had you mill the trigger hole first so you had support for the end mill and had perfect trigger holes every time and the gen 2 jig has a 1.5 in thick template to support the end mill ending in perfect trigger holes.

Posted: 7/9/2018 11:01:38 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

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WRT the safety...the only problem I had is the detent hole being too small. My first one eventually broke in, but on the rest I drilled it slightly larger.

I was not terribly happy with the included drill bits. I ended using my own substitutes.

View Quote

All the ones I have seen need the safety detent hole drilled out after being completed. There is always some material stuck at the top that keeps the detent from being able to push through. The proper size for the hole I believe is a 1/8" bit and I haven't found any reason to go oversized.... just take the bit and slowly drill it to complete the hole and pull it in and out a couple times to make sure and get all the metal burrs out of the way..shouldn't take but a few seconds with a hand drill.

Edited to note - I will also add that most lowers I have seen have the detent hole slightly drilled off center from where the jig cuts the hole. This is with a 5d Pro jig and mostly RTB 80% cerro lowers. Most are only very minor with the selector being almost straight and a couple are worse and one was way off - still functioned but is ugly with the safety being that crooked. Not as ugly as the 5D trigger hole though, I don't know how you guys can build your guns with those it bothers me too much with that gaping hole.

Posted: 7/9/2018 11:10:41 AM EDT

[#22]

I believe you're totally correct that the hole only needs cleaned up. The drill slid in most of the way...and as noted, the one sluggish receiver I didn't drill cleaned up on its own over time.

I agree with the placement of the detent hole. Most of mine are a few degrees off and while it works fine it annoys me immensely.

Posted: 7/9/2018 12:28:47 PM EDT

[#23]

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I believe you're totally correct that the hole only needs cleaned up. The drill slid in most of the way...and as noted, the one sluggish receiver I didn't drill cleaned up on its own over time.

I agree with the placement of the detent hole. Most of mine are a few degrees off and while it works fine it annoys me immensely.

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You could always do the Eftmann push button safety. It's something I'm considering if my safety doesn't line up properly.
https://www.rainierarms.com/elftmann-tactical-push-button-ambi-speed-safety/

Posted: 7/9/2018 12:38:22 PM EDT

[#24]

The selector detent hole is referenced off the selector hole on the drawing. The selector hole tolerance allows some variation on location. When you do them backwards there is no way to be sure they will align perfectly. I think NODAK leaves the selector detent stepped hole undrilled. It can be properly located off the selector hole location on that type lower.

Posted: 7/9/2018 2:09:09 PM EDT

[#25]

Some really useful tips here. I've got the 5D Tactical pro router kit on the way, hopefully here by this weekend. I ordered the Makita RT0701CX7 router to use. I noticed some people mentioning that they thought the router speed might be too high. Many discussions & videos I've seen almost always say use the fastest setting your router has. Is there an ideal speed or narrow range of speed that seems to work best in the given material? Hopefully I can post some pics of a beautiful 80% AR milling in the not too distant future.

Posted: 7/9/2018 2:32:16 PM EDT

[#26]

I run my dewalt wide open, but use a harbor freight pedal for on/off. That keeps both hands on the router at startup so you don't bite to hard into the starter hole.

Posted: 7/9/2018 5:08:13 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
I run my dewalt wide open, but use a harbor freight pedal for on/off. That keeps both hands on the router at startup so you don't bite to hard into the starter hole.

View Quote

Alright. You've got me on the hook. You gotta link to reel me in? (unless it costs more than my router did)

Posted: 7/9/2018 5:20:11 PM EDT

[#28]

Here you go:

https://m.harborfreight.com/momentary-power-foot-switch-96619.html?utm_referrer=direct%2Fnot%20provided

Posted: 7/9/2018 5:24:37 PM EDT

[#29]

Cool. Thanks. When I tried searching the only thing I found was one for a welder for about $80.

Posted: 7/9/2018 5:36:37 PM EDT

[#30]

That pedal makes easy easier. Good luck.

Posted: 7/9/2018 8:09:28 PM EDT

[#31]

@Emt1581, what part of PA are you in? Close to Trumbull Co? If so, IM me, I'd be happy to help. I've done "a couple" 80%'ers.

Posted: 7/9/2018 9:19:15 PM EDT

[#32]

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@Emt1581, what part of PA are you in? Close to Trumbull Co? If so, IM me, I'd be happy to help. I've done "a couple" 80%'ers.

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Other side of the state from Ohio. I'm in the Lehigh Valley.

Thanks though!

Posted: 7/12/2018 1:35:28 AM EDT

[#33]

I used a Bosch router with my 5D Jig Pro. I broke an end mill at the slowest speed setting because the flutes grabbed and kicked back as I moved from the pilot hole to make the initial pass. This wasn't an issue when I ran it on the highest speed.

I did mess up the trigger hole on my first 80%. Somehow the router must not have been fully flat on the jig and it came out over-cut and wavy. I cleaned it up with a dremel and file, but now it's an even BIGGER hole than the already large hole the 5D jig creates.
On my second 80% I decided to mill the trigger hole first and got a much better result. I've also vacuumed out the chips and router after each pass, and did a double pass with another dose of tap cutting fluid before stepping down to the next depth. Any bumps on the earlier passes will continue to show at the next depth level, so you want to make sure you're cleaning up these bumps before moving on.

I had what I think was a pretty unique tolerance issue on 2 different lowers purchased a year apart. I say "unique" because I have not seen anyone running into the same issue:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_724/288513_Something-s-wrong-with-my-first-80-Issue-with-Jig-Pro-.html

Posted: 7/12/2018 2:46:41 AM EDT

[#34]

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Other side of the state from Ohio. I'm in the Lehigh Valley.

Thanks though!

View Quote

im between the poconos and scranton (a little closer to scranton) ive done ~30 lowers so far so hit me up if ya need any help

Posted: 7/16/2018 8:36:10 AM EDT

[#35]

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im between the poconos and scranton (a little closer to scranton) ive done ~30 lowers so far so hit me up if ya need any help

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I appreciate that. I actually want to find a cheap deal on an LPK and try building this up as is just to gauge tolerances/fit. The two raw lowers I bought are going to be my test runs. Then once I'm confident I can do them without any issues I'll start doing the anodized.

Thanks!

Posted: 7/23/2018 11:44:25 PM EDT

[#36]

I put it back in the jig and did the trigger hole again. It got better. However, it is still rough. Doesn't make sense. There was no real debris/splinters in the way, the jig, end mill, router plate, etc. are all fine. Yet the hole is definitely not a perfect oval. I also reversed the router thinking I had it backwards on top of the jig...still no different after shaving the initial little bit.

I ordered a rifle kit from PSA tonight so I'm going to try building it up. I figure, at worst, I'll have to buy another roll pin/bolt release and trigger guard since those are the only pieces I can't get back out if it doesn't function right due to the hump on the inner side and trigger hole.

We shall see....

EDIT: Anyone have any ideas that are effective at containing these aluminum shavings/splinters?? They get EVERYWHERE!

Thanks!

Posted: 7/23/2018 11:54:39 PM EDT

[#37]

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EDIT: Anyone have any ideas that are effective at containing these aluminum shavings/splinters?? They get EVERYWHERE!

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I’m using a small shop vac hooked up to my 5D Tactical PRO jig, in addition I vacuum off the to of the jig every time I adjust the router.

And yes, I still have quite a few aluminum chips on me afterwards,

Then I step outside and use the garden hose.

Posted: 7/24/2018 12:05:13 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

I’m using a small shop vac hooked up to my 5D Tactical PRO jig, in addition I vacuum off the to of the jig every time I adjust the router.

And yes, I still have quite a few aluminum chips on me afterwards,

Then I step outside and use the garden hose.

View Quote

I use paper towels lightly coated with wd-40, shop vac, then I go up to the bathroom and with 20+ q-tips I swirl around all the crevices of the pocket , holes, etc. Works well. But it takes a while.

After further thinking, I think the jig is messed up. That is the only explanation for the right wall of the pocket and right side of the trigger hole being parallel. Time to let 5D Tactical know?

Thanks!

Posted: 7/24/2018 12:12:39 PM EDT

[#39]

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*snip*

After further thinking, I think the jig is messed up. That is the only explanation for the right wall of the pocket and right side of the trigger hole being parallel. Time to let 5D Tactical know?

Thanks!

View Quote

Could be, but I would sooner guess the jig was not assembled on your lower correctly, something came loose or you didn't have all of the chips cleared out of the jig or under your router. A chip only a couple of thousandths thick in the wrong place can easily lead to an angled cut or drilled hole. Guys that put painters tape on their lower and aren't careful to avoid overlap or that every contact point has the same number of layers, look at their finished lower and and blame the jig.

Posted: 7/24/2018 1:41:16 PM EDT

[#40]

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Could be, but I would sooner guess the jig was not assembled on your lower correctly, something came loose or you didn't have all of the chips cleared out of the jig or under your router. A chip only a couple of thousandths thick in the wrong place can easily lead to an angled cut or drilled hole. Guys that put painters tape on their lower and aren't careful to avoid overlap or that every contact point has the same number of layers, look at their finished lower and and blame the jig.

View Quote

Everything was tight this time, no painters tape, and no shavings in the way since all I was doing was the final step (trigger hole) again. That's what leads me to believe it's the jig itself.

Posted: 7/24/2018 2:32:05 PM EDT

[#41]

My guess would be tool hang out and tool flex. Running in a router limits the rigidity to your hand, allowing the tool to pull itself into the work. Much like the difference in climb milling vs conventional. Even when milling with heavy iron you'll get flex and chatter. As with an DIY, it takes a lot of practice and patience to get fit and finish near that of mass production. I'd clean it up with a needle file and chalk it up to a learning experience. I've done in the neighborhood of 30 using a mill. Not one was perfect, but the last 10 or so are leaps and bounds over the first two or three.

Posted: 7/24/2018 2:48:32 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
My guess would be tool hang out and tool flex. Running in a router limits the rigidity to your hand, allowing the tool to pull itself into the work. Much like the difference in climb milling vs conventional. Even when milling with heavy iron you'll get flex and chatter. As with an DIY, it takes a lot of practice and patience to get fit and finish near that of mass production. I'd clean it up with a needle file and chalk it up to a learning experience. I've done in the neighborhood of 30 using a mill. Not one was perfect, but the last 10 or so are leaps and bounds over the first two or three.

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That's good to know. Once I figure out how to contain these aluminum splinters better I'll keep at it and start cranking them out.

30...that's awesome! Now do you have the funds to build up that many before the panic ensues in the coming year as we head into elections??

Posted: 7/24/2018 4:58:39 PM EDT

[#43]

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Once I figure out how to contain these aluminum splinters better I'll keep at it and start cranking them out.

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It is a friggin' mess..haha.

Posted: 7/24/2018 8:01:23 PM EDT

[#44]

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Quoted:

30...that's awesome! Now do you have the funds to build up that many before the panic ensues in the coming year as we head into elections??

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Not now for sure, maybe never. But I won't be left without options.

Posted: 7/25/2018 12:49:38 AM EDT

[#45]

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Here you go:

https://m.harborfreight.com/momentary-power-foot-switch-96619.html?utm_referrer=direct%2Fnot%20provided

View Quote

Hmmm... that's going on my list too.

Posted: 7/25/2018 5:45:21 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm running the DeWalt DWP611 and I run it on "6", the highest speed.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
So to the guys that have done this successfully, what speed do you have your router set on and how often do you reapply WD40?

I'm running the DeWalt DWP611 and I run it on "6", the highest speed.

Same here

Posted: 7/26/2018 8:02:12 PM EDT

[#47]

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Anyone have any ideas that are effective at containing these aluminum shavings/splinters?? They get EVERYWHERE!

View Quote

Get a large clear plastic storage tote and cut a couple of arm holes in it. This will contain almost all of the chips.
It does hamper visibility, but after you do a couple of lowers that is less of an issue than you might think.

Posted: 7/26/2018 8:21:44 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
Get a large clear plastic storage tote and cut a couple of arm holes in it. This will contain almost all of the chips.
It does hamper visibility, but after you do a couple of lowers that is less of an issue than you might think.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Anyone have any ideas that are effective at containing these aluminum shavings/splinters?? They get EVERYWHERE!

Get a large clear plastic storage tote and cut a couple of arm holes in it. This will contain almost all of the chips.
It does hamper visibility, but after you do a couple of lowers that is less of an issue than you might think.

I'm envisioning a blasting cabinet with a router inside.

Posted: 7/26/2018 9:34:04 PM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sorry for the potato (S3). But hopefully you can see the things I was trying to highlight...

This was something new I noticed...It's not real clear but on the surface there is a hump all the way down. It's maybe a a 1/4"-1/2" wide and protrudes out 1-2mm. I've built up tons of lowers...never felt that before. No clue how it happened so consistently the whole way down.

These first two also show the wavy trigger hole.

https://i.imgur.com/jwuaPai.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RiIFWst.jpg

This is the underside/exterior surface of the trigger hole. You can see where the burr was ripped off. I still need to file it some.

https://i.imgur.com/WHzpbSe.jpg

See that lip on the bottom side here? That's what I was talking about.

https://i.imgur.com/PhG6r1t.jpg

In this one, see the rear of the channel...should that extra material be sticking out by the selector switch hole?

https://i.imgur.com/GTsdneO.jpg

View Quote

My SOLGW lower looks just like that. I had it cerakoted by them and everything prior to shipping. Was a little taken back when I first picked it up, but eh trigger has been flawless so far.

Posted: 7/26/2018 9:52:00 PM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:
Get a large clear plastic storage tote and cut a couple of arm holes in it. This will contain almost all of the chips.
It does hamper visibility, but after you do a couple of lowers that is less of an issue than you might think.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Anyone have any ideas that are effective at containing these aluminum shavings/splinters?? They get EVERYWHERE!

Get a large clear plastic storage tote and cut a couple of arm holes in it. This will contain almost all of the chips.
It does hamper visibility, but after you do a couple of lowers that is less of an issue than you might think.

Oh ok...clear...that's an idea. And to add to it I could probably glue/staple/tape some gauntlet gloves to the holes so that even more of the shavings stay inside.

EDIT: Do you have a pic or two of that setup? I'm trying to envision how the vise/router/jig attach and fit in or under this tub so the shavings are contained.

Thanks!!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Milling an 80%...It ain't foolproof! (Page 1 of 2)

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