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Posted: 10/14/2018 8:45:41 PM EDT
I recently picked up some Winchester white box 5.56 and noticed they have some unusual looking crimps. Some look fine, some look like the pics below, and some rounds are fine on one side of the round, but then look like the pics below on the other side of the round. Basically half a normal crimp and half not on the same round. All from the same lot and '18 headstamped.
Can anyone offer any information on what's up with these? I'm not a reloader or an ammo expert, so any valuable information will be helpful. Should I contact Winchester, is it safe to shoot, is it not safe, etc? The three pics below are of two random rounds pulled from three separate random boxes of 20. As I mentioned, some are worse than others, but they all pretty much look like this. 
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Posted: 10/14/2018 8:58:18 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:01:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuckey, haven't seen that yet. |
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:07:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryThanks, Tig.
Looks like this type of crimp is called a segmented crimp? Someone in one if the above linked threads mentioned it's normal, but I've never seen it before in the 10's of thousands of 5.56 rounds I've run through. Then again, I don't have much experience with Winchester 5.56, and that's what those threads were referencing, and what I have. The most unusual part about it is the obvious lip that protrudes up and outward at the top of the case neck/crimp. It's certainly exaggerated on some over others, but it seems it could cause issues with relaible feeding and/or chambering. Also, why the difference in the crimp from round to round in a large sample of ammo all from the same lot? |
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:16:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, Tig. Looks like this type of crimp is called a segmented crimp? Someone in one if the above linked threads mentioned it's normal, but I've never seen it before in the 10's of thousands of 5.56 rounds I've run through. Then again, I don't have much experience with Winchester 5.56, and that's what those threads were referencing, and what I have. The most unusual part about it is the obvious lip that protrudes up and outward at the top of the case neck/crimp. Seems it would cause issues with relaible feeding and/or chambering. Hopfully it's not a shit show for you.  Definitely run it through the paces to see how it runs. (I learned a little something today).
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:19:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, why the difference in the crimp from round to round in a large sample of ammo all from the same lot? |
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:19:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed on the crimp flaring, I cant see how it won't be a cycling issue. I haven't shot WWB since ~2007 or so, never saw that type of "segmented" crimp on Winchester or any other 5.56/.223. Hopfully it's not a shit show for you. Definitely run it through the paces to see how it runs. (I learned a little something today).Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Thanks, Tig. Looks like this type of crimp is called a segmented crimp? Someone in one if the above linked threads mentioned it's normal, but I've never seen it before in the 10's of thousands of 5.56 rounds I've run through. Then again, I don't have much experience with Winchester 5.56, and that's what those threads were referencing, and what I have. The most unusual part about it is the obvious lip that protrudes up and outward at the top of the case neck/crimp. Seems it would cause issues with relaible feeding and/or chambering. Hopfully it's not a shit show for you. Definitely run it through the paces to see how it runs. (I learned a little something today). |
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:21:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only thing I can think of is bad QC and a crimping die that is out of calibration? I know very little of reloading. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Also, why the difference in the crimp from round to round in a large sample of ammo all from the same lot? Maybe this is some kind of factory seconds or rejects. Definitely looks like a reject loaded it. 
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:22:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Definitely looks like a reject loaded it. Interested in an update after you run a few mags?? |
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:23:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have to agree. Interested in an update after you run a few mags?? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Definitely looks like a reject loaded it. Interested in an update after you run a few mags?? 
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:28:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will update tomorrow evening. Thanks, again, for the links.
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:36:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too easy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Will update tomorrow evening. Thanks, again, for the links. 
It's crazy how many threads I've found on shitty Winchester crimps. Here's another from just recently with pics that closely resemble mine, just not as bad. https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Winchester-Q3131-Really-bad-quality-yesterday-Lot-HA03-2972/16-728557/ Oh, well. I'll be back in here tomorrow night... |
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:41:57 PM EDT
[#12]
.......
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Posted: 10/14/2018 10:22:24 PM EDT
[#13]
That extreme a crimp may affect accuracy but I doubt it will inhibit function. Good close range blaster ammo anyway.
Mag dump time!
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Posted: 10/15/2018 12:19:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That extreme a crimp may affect accuracy but I doubt it will inhibit function. Good close range blaster ammo anyway. Mag dump time! |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 2:25:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We'll see. I'll be testing a few mags worth here shortly. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 3:39:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Sloppy but I wouldn't fret too much over it. It's not enough shape change to affect cycle or function or pressure in any 5.56 chambered gun.
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Posted: 10/15/2018 3:53:33 PM EDT
[#17]
That is some poor QC, and looks like the cases are not trimmed to a uniform length.
The "Segmented Crimp" is used by almost all major manufacturers and is the same crimp as a Lee Factory Crimp Die uses. Those rounds definitely need to be more uniform in case length, and or bullet seating depth, and crimp strength. That is terrible even for Q Series blasting ammo!
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Posted: 10/15/2018 4:01:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Typical crimp, just exaggerated looking because they went a little too heavy on it. Probably within QC for commercial sales. I've seen this most often with Winchester and it really is not an issue for general range use ammunition. My reloads look similar, just not as aggressive and more uniform.
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Posted: 10/15/2018 7:12:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is some poor QC, and looks like the cases are not trimmed to a uniform length. The "Segmented Crimp" is used by almost all major manufacturers and is the same crimp as a Lee Factory Crimp Die uses. Those rounds definitely need to be more uniform in case length, and or bullet seating depth, and crimp strength. That is terrible even for Q Series blasting ammo! The pic below is of three random rounds of IMI M193 pulled from a case I have open. This is what I'm used to seeing when looking at factory 5.56 ammo, granted, I never really examine it that closely. It just so happened that the crimp pics posted in my OP jumped out at me immediately. 
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Posted: 10/15/2018 7:15:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Also, as mentioned by someone above, the ammo ran just fine. Didn't have time to perform any accuracy tests, just a quick function test. Ran three fully loaded 30 round mags through an SR-15 and had no issues with feeding or chambering.
I appreciate all the info from the guys who chimed in. From now on, I think I'll stay away from Q3131, or maybe Winchester 5.56 in general. Although it ran fine, I'd prefer it to be as it should be instead of being all fucked up looking. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 7:26:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
> the ammo ran just fine. I'd prefer it to be as it should be instead of being all fucked up looking.
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Posted: 10/15/2018 8:18:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Is this the stuff that is made in Mississippi?
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Posted: 10/15/2018 8:21:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Yes almost all Factory crimped ammo uses the segmented crimp.
It is more forgiving of variation in the case length. But when the case length is way out of spec it causes the variation you are seeing. Those IMI rounds that you have will have the same segmented crimp they are just not as exaggerated. |
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Posted: 10/16/2018 10:09:05 AM EDT
[#24]
While Winc. uses a crimp ( as well as others IMI ) like that .... those are WAY, WAY over crimped.
As mentioned... poor QC. Pull a bullet or 2... I guarantee the bullet will be "Coke" bottle shaped from the excess crimp. And not the first time Winc. ( or for that matter any American manufacturer has done this. ) From the internet... Winc. FBI load on the left. And you can just see the "Coke" bottle effect on the left bullet at the crimp. As for keeping away from Winc. .... try some MEN FMJ ( SGAmmo, Primary Arms ) .... great precision in my AR's, considering it is FMJ, much better then typical FMJ Ball ammo. 
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Posted: 10/16/2018 11:36:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Yes! The above photo exactly illustrates the difference in proper vs. over crimping. The crimp on the right is still a segmented crimp, but is no so excessive that you can see the segments without close examination.
Agreed the crimp on the left is excessive. The bullet is deformed and the collet marks from the crimp are clearly visible. |
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Posted: 10/18/2018 8:51:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Win 3131 is crap and has been for a while. Is it still made in S Korea?
Shoot some groups once, if it's 4-6" that's pretty much the norm. |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 12:53:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Win 3131 is crap and has been for a while. Is it still made in S Korea? Shoot some groups once, if it's 4-6" that's pretty much the norm. I believe... all US made Q3131 is labeled as such.... ( The Q3131L and Q3131LK is most likely Lake City run. ) Q3131A ... is Israel made And Q3131A1... is South Korean. |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 7:43:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Yes almost all Factory crimped ammo uses the segmented crimp. It is more forgiving of variation in the case length. But when the case length is way out of spec it causes the variation you are seeing. Those IMI rounds that you have will have the same segmented crimp they are just not as exaggerated. Quoted:
While Winc. uses a crimp ( as well as others IMI ) like that .... those are WAY, WAY over crimped. As mentioned... poor QC. Pull a bullet or 2... I guarantee the bullet will be "Coke" bottle shaped from the excess crimp. And not the first time Winc. ( or for that matter any American manufacturer has done this. ) From the internet... Winc. FBI load on the left. And you can just see the "Coke" bottle effect on the left bullet at the crimp. As for keeping away from Winc. .... try some MEN FMJ ( SGAmmo, Primary Arms ) .... great precision in my AR's, considering it is FMJ, much better then typical FMJ Ball ammo. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/171545/w0s10j-707017.jpg |
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