User Panel
Posted: 11/8/2005 1:00:15 PM EDT
Samson has a new "drop in" MRFS C (7") that was developed for the US Army. These are for the M4/CAR length systems only at this time. A 12" version for the M16 is soon to follow. I would love to say we have them in stock, but Uncle Sam gets the first batch for the guys in the sandbox. (We should have them in December. ) MSRP is $199 These are not free float and require nothing but the removal of the original M4/CAR handguards. They will drop into the existing delta ring and cap. ALL rails are 100% Picatinny mil-spec and laser engraved with rail slot numbers. The top handrail can be mounted alone for use with an M203. This is a great option for those of you who want a rail system, but don't need or want free float capability. Perfect to mount a light and vertical grip to. More pics to follow. TalonArms.com |
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ETA- Disregard, I just saw that these are a straight drop in unit. How do these look in width when compared to the existing rails they make? |
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And $59 cheaper |
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While I don't need a freefloating rail, I do need one that is thin so it can mount into my duty AR15 lock..... When you stick covers on, most are getting a little too wide.
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I like it! Looks to be same width as a KAC unit, competition is good!
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would also like to know what the weight is and width of it compared to the regular handguards
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It is two piece just like standard plastic handguards. These will replace the originals with no modifications to the weapon. Correction, I just got an update that said the final production units do not need a tightening screw. It is only the two rail pieces. The tolerances were tight enough and the fit so secure that no extra hardware was required. |
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I will get that info from Samson in the morning. |
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Tag for more pics, especially of the screw that locks thme in place. Is it similar to the KAC RAS arrangement? Looks nice though!
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No offense to the dealer nor the company but I dont see how this would be a great option when the MI FF carbine handguard could be had for 163. I mean am I missing somthing.. as a consumer why would I get this over the cheaper MI?
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Really? That's impressive. What about the width? If the width is within reason (and it looks like it is by the picture) and the rest of it is kosher (tight lock up, rails in spec, etc.) then I think you have a real winner there! |
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The MRFS-DI is the same width as the rest of our rail systems 2.200 inches wide
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Oh crap. I just got a MI 2 piece RAS in Saturday.
Well, I guess I need to start another build. |
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Why get a MI when the YHM is cheaper? Options are nice for some of us. |
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The MI @ $163 is FF, the YHM 2-piece is not. |
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Well correct me if I am wrong but I assume that the YHM FF carbine is one peice and not 2? Again I am not bashing this product but I am in the market for a set of handguards.. 2pc preferred for easy install.
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YHM makes a set of two piece rails that are drop ins just like these. Remember, these rails are not free float. Both Samson and YHM make FF rails. YHM is a one piece and Samson is a two piece system. |
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I appears very "spartan", but bare is good I suppose, since there are less parts. I notice it does not have a lower heat shield, like the KAC, which I assume is it's greatest competitor as far as quality/size/weight go, especially considering how you allude to it going to the troops. How is heat dispertion with the lack of heat shield?
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I did not think the MI 2 piece was a free float. |
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How long before these get out to your dealers? I would like to get hands on time with one of these ...
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They've got both. They just came out with the 2 piece free float. |
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Probably mid-December. Once production fills the DoD order, we get ours. |
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MI DOES make a 2 piece FF. C4 www.GRTactical.com |
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It has been my experience that YHM cannot make a rail that is consistently in spec. MI can. The two piece NON-FF MI rail is also only $129. C4 |
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This would be an incorrect "guess" on your part. C4 |
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Have to agree w/ Grant. The MI FF rails are top notch. $200 for Samson drop in rails that aren't FF, when the competition is nearly half the price? One has to ask - why so much?
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Ditto! One of those would be perfect on my Sabre 14.5" barrel build |
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People - if we are going to compare this new rail to others on the market, lets at least compare apples to apples. MI - Has a two piece non-FF rail that is very comparable to this new offering from Samson... (Pictures stolen from BravoCompany's web site - if that's not OK Paul let me know and I will edit them out?) They are comparable because they are both two piece designs that do not require you to remove anything off of the rifle other then the factory hand guards. That means anybody (without any tools) can install and remove these rails at any time with out any modifications to the weapon. (That said, a hand guard removal tool would make your life easier ) So now, lets compare them... MI - Suggested Retail = $159.95 Street price = $129.95 Width = 2.4" Weight = 11.9oz Features - No tool install, T-Numbers, 100% Picatinny mil-spec Samson - Suggested Retail = $199 Street Price = ? Width = 2.2" Weight = 9.1oz Features - No tool install, T-Numbers, 100% Picatinny mil-spec Differences - Mainly weight and width. Samson claims their's can be used with just the top rail installed. Not sure about the MI? That's an important feature for the military but I'm not sure that it has a practical civilian application? At this point I think it's too early to really hash this one out because there are too many unknowns. What will be the street price of the Samson? Will it live up to it's claims? Will it lock up tight? I will reserve judgment until the Samson is actualy availible for review. Assuming that this new rail by Samson turns out to be a quality unit and lives up to the claims made here, I will have no problem paying an extra $30-$50 more for the Samson. Why? From what I can tell about the MI, it is a quality product at a very attractive price. What I don't like about it is the same thing I do not like about most other rails out there. They add too much weight and width to a weapon that is supposed to be light and handy. The only other rails that I am aware of that are this light and narrow are one piece FF units that are a lot harder to install\remove and cost a lot more. One last thing - C4iGrant, before you troll this thread anymore, I think it should be mention that you are a dealer for both MI and Troy and that you hate Samson because of their on going dispute with Troy. Don't make this into an excuse to rehash that crap or start a flame fest. I just feel that it should be pointed out that you are not just some impartial contributor to this thread. |
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Show me where I troll'd this thread??? People asked questions that weren't being answered and or made false claims that needed corrected. My posting in this thread has ZERO to do with Samson. C4 |
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I'm certain that the quality is in line with the Samson two piece FF-great piece of gear.
This is my opinion, the weight difference is more than likely associated with the price difference. There are many things like this-cheap pair of walmart shoes will weigh more than, lets say a pair of Hi Tech or other higher brand ones. Camping gear- you pay for weight, you hikers know this, used to be $100 a pound price tag for a pound less for your sleeping bag. etc, etc. ect. And of course, will it work, of course- to varying degree's Mark |
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Put it this way,this thread was a civil discussion,and given your past history regarding Samson,basically anything you have to say in any topic regarding Samson could be construed as a bias opinion. For instance,I am looking for a rail and as soon as I seen your postings here,I knew nothing good can come from this.Do you know the manufacturing process for MI,in referance to your claim that they are not using cost cutting measures ? Personally,I think that most companies use cost cutting measures to maximize profit.One example being Kahr arms here in MA,they import Koreans to manufacture weapons,instead of American machinists/workers,which is one way to cut costs.I don't think any companies look at a product and don't try to figure out a way to make it cheaper.You ought to know by now that in most peoples minds,you get what you pay for.IOW,the more expensive a product is,the better it must be..LOL Grant,I value your opinions on most things AR,your LaRue sales tactics are legendary (I own a LaRue product BTW ) But when it comes to Samson products,a lot of members here remember the Troy vs Samson rant and know your opinion on anything Samson is very biased,to say the least. I think CV69 was just pointing that fact out for people that may not remember,or where not here for that thread.So they can make an informed decision based on facts,not biased opinions. I like the fact that a rep for Samson is posting in this thread,and don't like the fact you might have made him vanish because he doesn't want to get in a pissing match with you. |
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Put it this way,this thread was a civil discussion,and given your past history regarding Samson,basically anything you have to say in any topic regarding Samson could be construed as a bias opinion. Nothing I have said is uncivil and past history is past history. People will ALWAYS see what they want to see and I cannot help that. For instance,I am looking for a rail and as soon as I seen your postings here,I knew nothing good can come from this.Do you know the manufacturing process for MI,in referance to your claim that they are not using cost cutting measures ? Personally,I think that most companies use cost cutting measures to maximize profit.One example being Kahr arms here in MA,they import Koreans to manufacture weapons,instead of American machinists/workers,which is one way to cut costs.I don't think any companies look at a product and don't try to figure out a way to make it cheaper.You ought to know by now that in most peoples minds,you get what you pay for.IOW,the more expensive a product is,the better it must be..LOL Yes, I have talked to MI about their manufacturing process and have examined their products at great detail. This is what led me to carry their products. I can/could carry any product I want so I am VERY picky about what I stock. Grant,I value your opinions on most things AR,your LaRue sales tactics are legendary (I own a LaRue product BTW ) But when it comes to Samson products,a lot of members here remember the Troy vs Samson rant and know your opinion on anything Samson is very biased,to say the least. The TROY VS Samson issue is still alive and well and will continue to defend TROY, but this thread has ZERO to do with it. I think CV69 was just pointing that fact out for people that may not remember,or where not here for that thread.So they can make an informed decision based on facts,not biased opinions. Once again, history is history. My opinion on gear has NOTHING to do if I sell it or not. I tell it like it is based on my experience with the product and or company. For instance, nothing I have posted in this thread is innaccurate or misleading in away shape or form. I like the fact that a rep for Samson is posting in this thread,and don't like the fact you might have made him vanish because he doesn't want to get in a pissing match with you. This is an open forum for discussion on gear. There were members posting with questions and or making comments that were not accurate. I responded to them and nothing more. Just because a dealer starts a thread doesn't mean it is off limits to other dealers or IP's. I also have ZERO interest in getting into a "pissing match" with another dealer, but will comment when I see false information. If that scares off the dealer/IP that started the thread then so be it. C4 |
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I find it very hard to believe that a close toleranced unit could be as firmly mounted as one with a clamping device.
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No R&D IS a cost saving measure. It costs a hell of a lot less to take an existing product and copy it, which is what MI did. Is it just a coincidence that the MI has all of the same major features of the YHM? Of course not, they modified the design and released it to the public. Samson obviously did not which is why it looks a lot different and costs more. Run along Grant, this thread is not for you. |
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Not having to do R&D does save money (no doubt). So how about Daniel Defense, LaRue Tactical, etc, etc?? They all have a 1 piece FF rail that resembles the KAC FF rail (with changes to weight, diameter & or add a locking system). This is a VERY normal occurance in the firearms industry and to SUGGEST that MI is the ONLY one that does it is simply ignorant. What is even more interesting is that you THINK that SAMSON is the originator of the rails they sell! I suppose you think that TROY has copied the Samson rail right??? C4 |
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Take the Urinary Olympics somewhere else please.
This gets real old. |
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nuff said |
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Since you believe my above comments are inaccurate, please provide DOCUMENTED proof (say in the form of a registered document or a patent showing that Samson made their rails BEFORE Troy hired Mr. Samson to manufacturer their rail). C4 P.S. If you would like to discuss the TROY VS Samson issues further, you can IM, E-mail, start a new thread or come onto my forum to cover it. |
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