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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:48:37 PM EDT
[#1]
I have a decent collection of rifles of various models, price points, brands, etc.
I find my BCM4s to be extremely rugged & reliable, maybe the most. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:54:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a decent collection of rifles of various models, price points, brands, etc. I find my BCM4s to be extremely rugged & reliable, maybe the most.   BCM BCG, Staked gas key loose BCM |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:02:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a decent collection of rifles of various models, price points, brands, etc. I find my BCM4s to be extremely rugged & reliable, maybe the most. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/255381/7BBD7931-6D1F-47C4-9CCC-49DF48978E9A-2387171.jpg  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYfg03rECFIBCM 
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:04:00 PM EDT
[#4]
The usual suspects, Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, etc.
Stuff breaks, buy spares. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:05:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The usual suspects, Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, etc. Stuff breaks, buy spares. READ THIS HIGH ROUND COUNT AR THREAD OP |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:07:14 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm sure you have seen it, but this thread would have the most real world info for non .mil firearms.
Henderson Defense EDIT: Beat!! |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:27:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Colt 6940 is tough as nails.
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:29:06 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:30:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Colt 6940 is tough as nails. Doesn't that model have the 14.5" barrel, and thus a welded flash hider to make the 16" minimum? |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:36:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't that model have the 14.5" barrel, and thus a welded flash hider to make the 16" minimum? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Colt 6940 is tough as nails. Doesn't that model have the 14.5" barrel, and thus a welded flash hider to make the 16" minimum? NO |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:46:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't that model have the 14.5" barrel, and thus a welded flash hider to make the 16" minimum? 6940 = 16” barrel 6944 = 14.5” barrel |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:51:20 PM EDT
[#12]
SR15
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Posted: 8/9/2022 8:02:16 PM EDT
[#13]
It’s a .308… and no longer in production… but the POF P308 is accurate and extremely reliable. They have a 14.5” machine gun to the San Diego County Sheriffs Department like 10 years ago and asked them to wear it out. They gave up after like 68,000 rounds https://pof-usa.com/torture-test/
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Posted: 8/9/2022 8:06:04 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 8/9/2022 8:09:01 PM EDT
[#15]
NATO-tested rifles are usually pretty tough, LMT, Knights, Caracal, etc
HK556 has the “over the beach” feature: a notch in the chamber that blocks the extractor from blowing out in the case of an obstructed barrel and preventing a kaboom. Caracal borrowed this feature as the CAR816 was designed collaboratively by HK and Sig guys. Daniel defense rifles seem to take a lickin |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 8:38:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks but ouch, the price I thought Colts go for 2 to 3 hundred less. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt 6940 is tough as nails. Doesn't that model have the 14.5" barrel, and thus a welded flash hider to make the 16" minimum? NO Thanks but ouch, the price I thought Colts go for 2 to 3 hundred less. Not your average Colt... LINK |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 9:09:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryThanks, though it doesn't seem to say anything that suggests it is more robust than their other models. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 9:11:29 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 8/9/2022 9:28:31 PM EDT
[#19]
If I had to pick one to bet on Knights would probably be in the running. In reality I don’t worry about that stuff.
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, though it doesn't seem to say anything that suggests it is more robust than their other models. I could see where you might argue a monolithic upper and straight gas tube are both things that might make them more robust. That being said the use of strong and robust brings images of using it as a crowbar to my mind. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 10:01:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: The various brands of ARs have been discussed regarding which is the best, average, below average, etc. What are a couple of brands (and maybe models) that are know for being the strongest and most robust, with it being least likely to fail? Features, options, ergonomics, etc., have no bearing in this choice. Can of worms open. KAC, H&K and LMT have each made proprietary mods to their AR variants to increase reliability. I have KAC and H&K rifles. They are both excellent in their own way (though HKs tend to be heavy so if that is an issue - stay away) but I have not torture tested them. Drawback is proprietary parts and high cost of admission. For standard milspec rifles, I own DD and Noveske. Again no torture testing. Everything fails eventually so as noted, accumulate spare parts. YMMV. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 10:11:17 PM EDT
[#21]
KAC SR15
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Posted: 8/9/2022 10:47:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Definitely something that has a MK16 rail
 KAC SR-15 Mod 2 LMT MRP |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 11:12:49 PM EDT
[#23]
I think the M4 SOPMOD Block 1.5, M4A1 SOPMOD Block II have proven to be robust.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/M4-SOPMOD-Picture-Thread-Block-I-1-5-PR-II-/118-610057/?page=212&anc=bottom#bottom https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/M4A1-SOPMOD-Block-II-clone-picture-thread/118-541606/?page=881&anc=bottom#bottom |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 11:29:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can of worms open. KAC, H&K and LMT have each made proprietary mods to their AR variants to increase reliability. I have KAC and H&K rifles. They are both excellent in their own way (though HKs tend to be heavy so if that is an issue - stay away) but I have not torture tested them. Drawback is proprietary parts and high cost of admission. For standard milspec rifles, I own DD and Noveske. Again no torture testing. Everything fails eventually so as noted, accumulate spare parts. YMMV. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The various brands of ARs have been discussed regarding which is the best, average, below average, etc. What are a couple of brands (and maybe models) that are know for being the strongest and most robust, with it being least likely to fail? Features, options, ergonomics, etc., have no bearing in this choice. Can of worms open. KAC, H&K and LMT have each made proprietary mods to their AR variants to increase reliability. I have KAC and H&K rifles. They are both excellent in their own way (though HKs tend to be heavy so if that is an issue - stay away) but I have not torture tested them. Drawback is proprietary parts and high cost of admission. For standard milspec rifles, I own DD and Noveske. Again no torture testing. Everything fails eventually so as noted, accumulate spare parts. YMMV. Is the H&K piston or DI? |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 11:48:36 PM EDT
[#25]
The truth is a $400 PSA could last 20,000 rounds and a KAC could break the first time it’s fired.
Many have done minor improvements but the biggest impacts are going to be quality control and sheer luck. The more you spend the more quality control you typically get, but nothing is ever guaranteed. |
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Posted: 8/10/2022 12:15:01 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the H&K piston or DI? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The various brands of ARs have been discussed regarding which is the best, average, below average, etc. What are a couple of brands (and maybe models) that are know for being the strongest and most robust, with it being least likely to fail? Features, options, ergonomics, etc., have no bearing in this choice. Can of worms open. KAC, H&K and LMT have each made proprietary mods to their AR variants to increase reliability. I have KAC and H&K rifles. They are both excellent in their own way (though HKs tend to be heavy so if that is an issue - stay away) but I have not torture tested them. Drawback is proprietary parts and high cost of admission. For standard milspec rifles, I own DD and Noveske. Again no torture testing. Everything fails eventually so as noted, accumulate spare parts. YMMV. Is the H&K piston or DI? Piston. I have the 308 model. Extremely robust, totally reliable, and very accurate as well. But, as mentioned above, HEAVY. |
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Posted: 8/10/2022 12:17:21 AM EDT
[#27]
The weekly which AR is best AR thread!
“Filthy 14” and Why I like my LMT. If you really care about reliability, you want an LMT enhanced BCG. |
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Posted: 8/10/2022 12:23:27 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Piston. I have the 308 model. Extremely robust, totally reliable, and very accurate as well. But, as mentioned above, HEAVY. Well, weight soaks up recoil. I'm a bit surprised about it being very accurate as it is a piston, semi-auto. Quoted: The weekly which AR is best AR thread! “Filthy 14” and Why I like my LMT. If you really care about reliability, you want an LMT enhanced BCG. Thanks for the thread. Does that BCG fit in other brands? |
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Posted: 8/10/2022 12:40:19 AM EDT
[#29]
The most robust lower I can think of is the steel Flat Spot welded lowers, that you make yourself and are no longer available. You can even weld on a steel buffer tube and reinforce w/ a thumbhole stock. The most robust in production lower I can think of is the Springfield Saint ATC, w/ the attached forward handguard to the lower.
Any lower can be reinforced by a thumbhole stock, the most robust likely being the European Nill-Griffe. |
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Posted: 8/10/2022 1:25:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, weight soaks up recoil. I'm a bit surprised about it being very accurate as it is a piston, semi-auto. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Piston. I have the 308 model. Extremely robust, totally reliable, and very accurate as well. But, as mentioned above, HEAVY. Well, weight soaks up recoil. I'm a bit surprised about it being very accurate as it is a piston, semi-auto. My HK MR762A1 has a 16.5” barrel and consistently shoots sub MOA groups with Hornady match ammo. It’s very closely based on its military counterpart, the HK 417 and has multiple variants currently in use by several militaries as DMRs and sniper rifles. I should point out that the commercial barrels are not chrome lined (military versions are) which supposedly improves accuracy. That’s one area where it could be a bit more robust, but I take care of its bore. While it’s probably true that the unlined barrel is slightly more accurate, I would admittedly prefer the extra protection the chrome lining provides. We’re not talking apples to oranges though, it’s a .308 (7.62x51mm) after all. I have shot the 5.56 version many times, but never found it better at doing anything than my DI rifles, other than staying very, very clean in comparison. And in my opinion, no 5.56 should be that damn heavy - you notice the weight immediately and it gets heavier with accessories… and time (unless benched, supported or prone). In its case, weight equals strength, the rifle itself is extremely robust, but if I want a rifle that heavy, I’m moving up in caliber. I love my HK MR762A1, but until I buy everything else I’d rather have first, I’ve no desire to get an HK MR556A1. All of that said, aside from the unlined barrels, the HK ARs, 5.56 & 7.62, are both bombproof. |
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Posted: 8/10/2022 2:28:45 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My HK MR762A1 has a 16.5” barrel and consistently shoots sub MOA groups with Hornady match ammo. It’s very closely based on its military counterpart, the HK 417 and has multiple variants currently in use by several militaries as DMRs and sniper rifles. I should point out that the commercial barrels are not chrome lined (military versions are) which supposedly improves accuracy. That’s one area where it could be a bit more robust, but I take care of its bore. While it’s probably true that the unlined barrel is slightly more accurate, I would admittedly prefer the extra protection the chrome lining provides. We’re not talking apples to oranges though, it’s a .308 (7.62x51mm) after all. I have shot the 5.56 version many times, but never found it better at doing anything than my DI rifles, other than staying very, very clean in comparison. And in my opinion, no 5.56 should be that damn heavy - you notice the weight immediately and it gets heavier with accessories… and time (unless benched, supported or prone). In its case, weight equals strength, the rifle itself is extremely robust, but if I want a rifle that heavy, I’m moving up in caliber. I love my HK MR762A1, but until I buy everything else I’d rather have first, I’ve no desire to get an HK MR556A1. All of that said, aside from the unlined barrels, the HK ARs, 5.56 & 7.62, are both bombproof. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Piston. I have the 308 model. Extremely robust, totally reliable, and very accurate as well. But, as mentioned above, HEAVY. Well, weight soaks up recoil. I'm a bit surprised about it being very accurate as it is a piston, semi-auto. My HK MR762A1 has a 16.5” barrel and consistently shoots sub MOA groups with Hornady match ammo. It’s very closely based on its military counterpart, the HK 417 and has multiple variants currently in use by several militaries as DMRs and sniper rifles. I should point out that the commercial barrels are not chrome lined (military versions are) which supposedly improves accuracy. That’s one area where it could be a bit more robust, but I take care of its bore. While it’s probably true that the unlined barrel is slightly more accurate, I would admittedly prefer the extra protection the chrome lining provides. We’re not talking apples to oranges though, it’s a .308 (7.62x51mm) after all. I have shot the 5.56 version many times, but never found it better at doing anything than my DI rifles, other than staying very, very clean in comparison. And in my opinion, no 5.56 should be that damn heavy - you notice the weight immediately and it gets heavier with accessories… and time (unless benched, supported or prone). In its case, weight equals strength, the rifle itself is extremely robust, but if I want a rifle that heavy, I’m moving up in caliber. I love my HK MR762A1, but until I buy everything else I’d rather have first, I’ve no desire to get an HK MR556A1. All of that said, aside from the unlined barrels, the HK ARs, 5.56 & 7.62, are both bombproof. Thanks for the post. |
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Posted: 8/10/2022 7:24:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Definitely something that has a MK16 rail KAC SR-15 Mod 2 LMT MRP You can't go wrong starting with these... |
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Posted: 8/10/2022 7:43:24 PM EDT
[#33]
I shoot a lot, mainly because I can for free.
My cheap ass PSA has run flawlessly for thousands of rounds. |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 6:14:55 PM EDT
[#34]
I own an LMT, Noveske, (both 16”) and a BCM (14.5” pin and welded), and have shot thousands of rounds through them for the past 12-14 years. All three weapons feel more “solid” and robust” than the two Bushmaster rifles that I bought in 2000 (post 1994 ban model and 2004 AWB sunset model (both sold). It’s hard to explain and I even had a friend shoot and compare to ensure it wasn’t just my imagination to justify the higher cost.
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Posted: 8/11/2022 10:19:32 PM EDT
[#35]
LaRue's are built like a brick shithouse. I would guess they are easily among the strongest.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:27:17 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By @peacematu : Well, weight soaks up recoil. I'm a bit surprised about it being very accurate as it is a piston, semi-auto. Thanks for the thread. Does that BCG fit in other brands? Yes, it’s nonproprietary…but you really should put it in an LMT. 
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:18:56 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can of worms open. KAC, H&K and LMT have each made proprietary mods to their AR variants to increase reliability. I have KAC and H&K rifles. They are both excellent in their own way (though HKs tend to be heavy so if that is an issue - stay away) but I have not torture tested them. Drawback is proprietary parts and high cost of admission. For standard milspec rifles, I own DD and Noveske. Again no torture testing. Everything fails eventually so as noted, accumulate spare parts. YMMV. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The various brands of ARs have been discussed regarding which is the best, average, below average, etc. What are a couple of brands (and maybe models) that are know for being the strongest and most robust, with it being least likely to fail? Features, options, ergonomics, etc., have no bearing in this choice. Can of worms open. KAC, H&K and LMT have each made proprietary mods to their AR variants to increase reliability. I have KAC and H&K rifles. They are both excellent in their own way (though HKs tend to be heavy so if that is an issue - stay away) but I have not torture tested them. Drawback is proprietary parts and high cost of admission. For standard milspec rifles, I own DD and Noveske. Again no torture testing. Everything fails eventually so as noted, accumulate spare parts. YMMV. Can you acquire the proprietary spare parts individually? |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:19:37 AM EDT
[#38]
Anderson lower with psa kit
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Posted: 8/12/2022 2:56:43 PM EDT
[#39]
From what I own I will say:
HK 416 semi is best but set me back $20k KAC is second best in the 5.56 category, but I like the SR-25 better than my MR762, and I own the latest version of that with the mlok and lighter barrel. So, HK>KAC in 5.56 and KAC>HK in 7.62 Nipping at their heels is LMT. I really enjoy their rifles and they are a solid third place considering their quality barrels and monolithic uppers. Lastly, I love my Noveske and the pride they put into their fit and finish, but they can be lumped in with DD at this point. Both companies pride themselves in above par barrels. Everything else is mid-tier at this point, imho. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 3:08:22 PM EDT
[#40]
 Attached File"We recommend Tapco magazines and BCA Hollow Point Boat Tail 75 gr., Nosler Match Grade 69 gr. (5.56 Hornady Frontier 55gr.)" |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 4:00:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The usual suspects, Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, etc. Stuff breaks, buy spares. READ THIS HIGH ROUND COUNT AR THREAD OP This guy's thread is the reason I run DD BCGs in my two SHTF rifles. I couldn't tell you if the DD upper & barrel are any more robust than the Larue. The 300blk under the bed is BCM and the truck gun is a Frankengun BA barrel, SOLGW BCG, BCM lower & trigger, but the confidence I have in DD dwarfs everything else I own. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 5:11:42 PM EDT
[#42]
LMT's MRP is very robust. Their enhanced bolt is a costly, but attractive, option for someone wanting "robust".
Hk's MR556A1 and MR762A1 are also exceedingly durable. I prefer "manufacturers" to "assemblers". I know virtually no company manufacturers every part but some companies manufacture very little. BCM is an often cited company when AR durability is discussed. The Filthy 14 was a huge marketing opportunity for the company. I was an early convert to BCM. Over time I found them to be "average" and definitely over-hyped and priced. All told I had a bunch of them in lots of configurations. None of them would shoot as well as a rack grade Colt 6920. A few of them were just plain sloppy. They weren't flawless in function either. Honestly, I would take a current hated CR marked Colt "Carbine" (6920) over any BCM. After 38 years of owning Colt ARs I still have yet to have problems with them. If I had to choose one AR15 type rifle it would be a LMT MRP or Colt AR of a configuration that fit my needs. I LOVE HKs offerings, but at $3000 (556) and $4000 (762) the cost is simply too high for most. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 2:47:39 AM EDT
[#43]
LMT
DD Noveske Colt FN BCM In no particular order! |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 2:52:14 AM EDT
[#44]
Never had a problem with bushmaster or LaRue. Lower tier PSA no issues either.
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Posted: 8/13/2022 6:35:14 PM EDT
[#45]
I had the same Colt on two different deployments and work up cycles. I never once had an issue with it. I beat the hell out of it. Submerged in water doing river crossings, fell out of an MATV, you name it. Either covered in dirt, sand, mud or food, it always worked. I haven’t put other ARs through the same test, so I can’t attest to those. My favorite AR is an older Colt 6921 cut down to 11.5, with a shaved FSP and geissele rail topped with an Aimpoint T2. 5K plus rounds on it. Not one malfunction and really accurate. I would have more rounds on it, but I also have several other ARs that I enjoy shooting.
I would get a Colt OEM 2, have barrel cut to desired length and and toss on whatever rail you want. Also, a decent trigger. SBR and suppress all things. I do really like the SOCOM barrel in terms of durability if you are willing to put up with the added weight. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 6:58:37 PM EDT
[#46]
The LMT MRP/MARS and KAC rifles are somewhat of the premium rifles. If you see them, it is best to pick it up asap as it will be gone very soon.
I own a LMT estonian rifle and would recommend them over anything else. The LMT NZ reference rifles and the LMT Estonian reference rifles are both actual rifles used in the real world minus the fun switch. So you know you're getting an actual functional rifle used in real world situations. The LMT Estonian rifle is going to be used by the Estonians in the event Russia invades them. Imagine that for a second. This is a rifle designed to hold off something like that. And not to mention the LMT rifles were used by the Estonian in Afghan with an assist mission. That's real world use right there and the reference rifle is not just a clone but actual one pulled from the assembly line that was meant to be shipped to these militaries. KAC rifles are generally the same as the rifles they give off to the military and government agencies minus the fun switch. So you know you're getting an actual rifle that is trusted to protect some of the top people in the USA. As far as other brands of rifles, they're essentially clones of what you think would work. That doesn't mean they're bad choices. And generally speaking people might not be able to afford the 3000-4000 price tags that a KAC or LMT would cost you. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 8:39:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Knights.
Can't go wrong and they aren't that expensive considering what you get. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 8:48:37 PM EDT
[#48]
I'm back to just standard Colts and some spare parts, any machine will break down, I'd rather have a solid baseline and be able to fix it
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Posted: 8/13/2022 9:40:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the H&K piston or DI? The HK variants are Piston - this and some other factors like the handguard add significantly to the weight of the system relative to a standard DI AR. On some level the guns were designed to over-gassed to increase reliability so definitely not for everyone. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 9:45:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you acquire the proprietary spare parts individually? Yes you can though for one reason or another (HK being imported and KAC being focused on filling military contracts) the spares are scarce at the moment. The LMT set up that I have is a legacy that is 20 years old built on a KAC receiver but I generally understand that their stuff - while not as bad as HK or KAC, is still a little harder to get than most everything else. Unless you "have to have it" for the KAC or HK - I would think LMT is the best bet because they simply do not have the following KAC and HK do constantly driving up prices and sucking up parts. |
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