Unfortunately, that seems to be the case.

...

I also wonder why some of my steel components look like that when under light? I shined a flashlight in the safe one night and noticed several greenish colored steel barrels, sights, and gas blocks all on the more expensive stuff weirdly.

You are going to piss off the mindless zombie sheep that worship Bill and company.

This thread belongs in GD. Typical Molon thread of an old man yelling at clouds.

This is the content I come here for…. I’ve had a few G rails, all seemed fine.  I purchased an ODG upper on Black Friday, they sent me a black one.  Replacement came pretty quick and CS was good.  I have not shot it yet, but I wanted to give their BCG and barrel a try…. We’ll see

That rail is a piece of shit though and I don’t like their triggers. My biggest gripe with Geissele is they way they write their install instructions.  Just reeks of “I take shit way too seriously holier than thou wordy wordy nerd fuck” attitude.

And yes the earlier joke about a 10-rail sample was pretty funny!

Looks like you got the “Rattle Can Ready” version Molon

Meh idk looks like a tech product review observation thread to me. I’ve seen more quality content from Molon than most anyone on this site. I haven’t even seen you before, other than the two non tech posts you have in this thread ‘poking’ at molon.

The G product issues seem to be growing in scope as of late. I hope they get it worked out. I really like their triggers.

I was considering purchasing a g rail for a urgi build but I scrapped that idea due to the flex issue and now this. When i spend $200+ on a rail I expect quality as should anyone.  I’ll continue to stick with KAC and DD rails for now. The DD ris iii looks promising, and may make the G irrelevant.

@HMCS

Nice, I’ve heard really good things about them. How does it compare to the G rails?

I'm the first to agree to Geissele's failing QC. I used to be a huge fan in the early days before things took a nosedive. Instead, he'd rather shake his fists without even attempting to let G make it right. I'd be pissed if I got that rail, too, but I'd be an adult about it and call them Monday AM.

Sooo…


Not one word about it being dimensionally correct.

Not one test done to ascertain hardness, thicknesses of the anodised finish, or anything to do with actual QC inspection…


But hey, it feels rough on your soft hands, so it’s a POS…as if hand rubbing is a QC step. Maybe ask them to include a bottle of jergens for you.  





That’s GD level derp.

The blued barrels really pissed me off. I purchased several G rifles right before this was known. I should have raised hell.

Don't have one to compare it to. Has locating tabs, finish is good, and all wdvertised measurements seem dead accurate. It's been dragged, dropped and banged around in the floorboard of my truck for two years. I used the Expo rail and their chrome lined barrel for my truck gun build.

Good to hear. I’ve heard the expo barrels were made by rosco who makes/made some colt barrels. They seem to be the best deal going in the budget barrel world.  I’d like to see molon do a review on these.

ETA: the 10.3 socom expo is on sale for 79.99

Well, since you asked so nicely, I received the handguard with the barrel nut smashed into the rear of the handguard.  I needed to pound the barrel nut out from the other end using a delrin rod.  I had to use 800 grit wet paper to remove material from the inside of the handguard to get the barrel nut back into the handguard.  I wonder if that has anything to do with the hardness/thickness of the anodizing?

Perhaps you could post a link of you demonstrating how to do a home hardness/thickness test of anodizing and I'll give it a try.

...

Can I start the bidding at $200, shipped, if G won’t take it back?

Reading is hard, and it shows with that mess above, plus you're using fallacies even, so we're done before it even began. Blocked and have a good day, SMH.

I've noticed a few of my blued guns look like the have a thin coat of rust on them in those conditions but when you remove them from the safe they look perfect.

Pretty weird

I really like the G triggers, and even the ALG rails are great for the $$ but I have been less than impressed with some of the pictures of their barrels and now that rail.  

I will say it really looks like what a PSA rail will look like when handled.  After they get some use and such the finish seems to wear in so to speak.

That took way too long.

They're horribly ugly.

A couple years ago I got rid of two new Geissele charging handle because of the purplish tint.  I warned buyers what they were getting.   This was before the "tint disclaimer" on their site. I asked Geissele customer service what the deal was, they said it's normal variation in color.  I knew that was BS because BCM was always the right shade of black.

Attached File


Not really.

Bushmaster
KAC
Geissele

Purple happens... I dont know why, but I have seen several big names put out "Barney" products over the years.

Wow. I had the same experience with an alg rail I picked up on Black Friday this year. I was sorely disappointed but at least it was only $60. I would have been irate at the same from a g rail.

Pretty ugly.

All my g handguards come with barrel nut inside the handguard. I grab an upper receiver, slap the handguard with prefitted barrel nut a couple of threads and gently pull the handguard out.

I mean every single one of them. No need to use a rod and hammer it out. If you choose to do so use a wood rod or stick. They come out easy.

As far as the original concern; i saw that on the last mk8 i bought, oiled it and it is fine now. Do i feel it is qc issue? Yes. But my handguards usually take beating and i spray paint them so never made a big deal out of it. KAC urx4 i bought over christmas was worse…

Hard coat anodizing on a blasted finish is chalky when perfectly clean. Just wipe it with an oily rag.

It’s ready to be used as a working rifle. Rattle can it and roll.

If you want shiny anodizing, buy Chinese crap.  

With nit  picking like this, it’s a wonder the bigger companies with agency contracts even offer their wares to the public.

Hey, Jonny turning a tech thread into an emotionally charged shit show.

Who’da thunk it…..

Great tech contribution - great job.

We're in a molon thread where all he's doing is whining that something he thinks should be high-end actually isn't. There isn't any contribution here.

Molon is right here. There is no excuse for an expensive rail like that to leave a factory. Period. That is a QC break down.

I have a Geissele 11.5” SBR purchased in Nov 2020 and love it to death. It is Luna Black and looks nothing like what Molon posted (chrome lined barrel by the way, no issues after 1000+ rounds mostly suppressed).

I have owned rails from Bushmaster, LaRue, CMMG, KAC, Geissele, Midwest Industries, PWS (SCAR) and Daniel Defense. None of my rails look like Molon’s Geissele rail or behave like his. My cheap TDI AK handguard has a better finish that his.

Molon, I hope you get it replaced.

Pics?

Black handguard and parts problem. Should have tanodized all the things. And if it’s not tanodized, it should be painted.

That is some shit tier anodizing.

very SOLID too

WARNING: Long winded response ahead.

Molon, I've read many of your threads over the years both here and on TOS, and have gained a great deal from them. With that said, I'm a little surprised by this thread, though I do understand the frustration.

What I don't understand is slamming a manufacturer without allowing them the opportunity to resolve the issue, especially if you've not had issues with their products in the past, or experienced major customer service issues with them yourself.


Over the past two and a half years I have had numerous issues with multiple manufacturers, most of which are very well regarded by most.

Since 2019 I have had to contact these manufacturers for the following issues:

(All products below were purchased new by me).


Colt: Bolt carrier group binding in a new Colt complete upper receiver. Gas key machined too wide and/or holes off center.

Colt: Lower receiver machine chatter marks around trigger/hammer pin holes. Machine marks were very deep and done prior to anodizing.

LMT: Flip up BUIS improperly machined at the sight base. Mounted on a few rifles and on each rifle the sights sat crooked, requiring excess windage to zero.

LMT: Upper receiver machine out of spec. Multiple optic mounts and irons would not mount without removing anodizing (Scalarworks, Geissele, KAC, Unity).

LMT: MARS Lower Receiver Out Of Spec. Attempted to swap out the mil-spec trigger guard but the trigger guard ears were too large, and no aftermarket trigger guards would fit.

LMT: (Same upper/lower as above) Upper receiver overhung the lower receiver with massive edges on both sides. Gap between the upper and lower where the carrier rides was excessively large, certainly enough for debris to get inside.

LMT: Enhanced bolt peening on bolt lugs after only a few hundred rounds. (Possibly a heat treat issue, but not sure).

Unity Tactical: TAPS PRO (1st Gen. Now discontinued). Switch would only activate the light with about half the lumen output and would flicker. Tried with at least half a dozen different lights. Ended up being a manufacturing problem with the circuit board they were using.

Unity Tactical: TAPS SYNC (Replacement for PRO). Unit was dead on arrival and would not activate any of the lights or lasers I own (PEQ15s, DBALS, etc..)

Surefire: XC1 issue with flickering with momentary press, and shutting of during recoil with constant on activated.

Surefire: SOCOM Closed Tine Flash Hider. Machined improperly and would not allow my suppressors to mount due to the rear of the mount being too large in diameter.

Aimpoint: T2 mounting screw helicoil backed out during removal of the optic from its mount. Screws were degreased prior to the initial install and installed with correct torque, so not an issue with over torque or excessive loctite use.

Aimpoint: ACRO adapter plate for the HK VP9 was machined too long and would not allow the plate to mount on the pistol slide.


Those issues listed above are not even all of the issues I've had in that time frame, and I'm likely forgetting at least another half dozen or so.

It would be nice if we didn't have to deal with these issues, and I don't doubt that manufacturers skipping QC steps to get products out of the door plays a major role in that.. but..


I think we as consumers need to be more realistic with our expectations. Most reports I've seen show total firearm sales for 2021 totaling between 18 million and 25 million, and that's not counting parts and accessories. (For comparison) Based on the numbers I found; the United States produced somewhere between 16 million and 17 million firearms from 1941 through 1945 for wartime use during the entirety of WWII. If those numbers are correct, that would mean the American consumer has purchased more firearms in the past year than the United States produced during the entirety of WWII with the war economy at full speed. Obviously manufacturing has advanced leaps and bounds since then, but my point still stands. Firearms, firearm accessories, ammunition, and gear are flying off of shelves at rates the industry has never seen. Companies that just a few years ago expanded their production capabilities to meet the already growing demand have already fallen behind again due to the current buying frenzy that seems to only increase exponentially year after year. (This applies to Geissele as well as most other manufacturers).

I understand the frustration. You spend your hard earned money on a seemingly quality product, only to be disappointed when you actually get said product in hand. What should we truly expect though? People don't want to work. Those that do are trying to do the job of three people, working long days with seemingly little to no appreciation for it. The best man on his best day is not immune from mistakes, neither is the $15-$20 per hour employee at (Insert Company Name Here) who's on his 4th twelve hour day this week, in a sea of twelve hour a day weeks, who'd much rather be at home with his family at 9:00 o'clock on a Thursday night.. but he can't because he's got to keep up production of the Gucci (insert firearm, firearm accessory, gear accessory, etc..) that people won't stop buying in droves. I'd be willing to bet Bill Geissele, and the CEO over literally every other weapon and gear manufacturer currently putting out cool guy stuff absolutely hates when their website servers crash five minutes into a sale because once again the demand for their products exceeds expectations. These instances aren't solely because companies don't want to put in the money to handle the demand, but because despite their best efforts there is no way that they can. As a society, Americans are never just satisfied with what works. They want the newest, best, most up-to-date gadgets, gear, gizmos, and guns. Demand like that comes at a price.. I'd be willing to bet most companies are riding a thin line right now between output and QC. If a manufacturer focuses on their QC above all, then the consumer complains about availability. If the manufacturer focuses on production capacity, then the consumer complains about QC issues. What's the number one issue all of these well known companies are having issues with currently? Availability.

Beggars can't be choosers. If you want something in 2022 there are a few prerequisites: Be willing to pay more than you want. Be willing to wait longer than you want. Even if buying from a quality manufacturer, be prepared to use their warranty because you are more likely than ever to need it. QC issues are up with practically every manufacturer, and this has been pretty well documented.

Personally, I think if all you've had till now is a minor anodizing issue with one rail, then you're doing pretty good. If you can't live with it then be patient, contact the (very likely) exhausted customer service rep behind the phone at (insert company name here) and politely explain the issue to them. It will likely result in you being taken care of. Of course if that doesn't work THEN let their customer base and/or potential customer base know how they treated you.

Side note: I've purchased quite a few items from Geissele, including a recent Super Duty pistol. I own roughly half a dozen charging handles, half a dozen triggers, four rails, buffer systems, receiver extensions, optic mounts, small parts, etc.. and I've not had a single issue with any Geissele product I've bought. The only other manufacturer that I've bought from in a similar amount that has been as trouble free as Geissele has been for me is BCM. That's not to say that I don't think I'll ever have issues with either brands equipment, or that I wouldn't be disappointed if I did have an issue.. but I'd simply handle it the way I have with every other manufacturer.. and I'd likely get my issue resolved as a result.

At the end of the day they are just guns.

not rinsing from bath to bath will do it

Agreed, and I'm glad he finally brought it to light because I was perplexed with my Mk14, thinking that this was normal.

Starting to see lots of apologizing in this thread now, than the original few

thats stupid, because molon IS being realistic.

go buy a new car, clear coat is foggy.   BUT DOES IT START UP AND RUN?  its just a car after all.....  clean it it will eventually look better

He needs to apply lotion to his hands.

Agreed, rail looks like poo. I wouldn't be happy with it either. Hopefully Geissele CS will sort you out.

That said, I do agree with you raising your hand and sharing what you found. That is how consumers force companies to make better products, better QC, CS, etc. If I was Geissele I'd want people to share issues so I could fix them and improve my processes. New poster here but I've read through this forum for years and I think you do a great job of objectively pointing out flaws in popular products.

Inspired by your post, I pulled out my G rails and found my new DDC Mk14 has the same smooth texture finish as my 5+ year old DDC Mk8. I am pretty shocked at how different the DDC color is though, a perfect FDE on the new Mk14 and an almost shiny-golden color on the old Mk8.

That sucks.  Daniel Defense seems to be going down the same path from my experience.  Can't even tell you how many FDE RIS II rails I've purchased and returned in the last year because they came with deep nicks and dings to the point where there are sharp, raised aluminum burrs coming from them.  All purchased from authorized dealers or directly from DD.  I got to the point where I could not find a RIS II without a defect, so I've accepted the ones I have as "good enough" and will be keeping them.  These are $400+ rail systems.  Should NOT be happening.  Also purchased a DD stripped Mk18 barrel that had a terrible deformation on one of the feed ramps.  I exchanged it for another and the 2nd one was fine, but still.. wtf?  It's a $300 barrel FFS...

Sad to see these top-tier companies resting on their laurels now and letting shitty products make their way out the door.  Unfortunately, I'm a clone whore and will continue buying (and exchanging) them until all my rifles are completed.  

You are taking what I said completely out of context. There was quite a bit of text between those two lines. Did you read any of it? He did not contact the manufacturer about an issue he had with a recently purchased product that did not meet his expectations, then went on to bash the company on an internet forum where said company has their own industry sub forum. He then proceeds to bring up issues that he (as it appears from reading the OP, I could be wrong in my assumption) has not experienced himself (railgate, barrel finish, etc). I have nothing against Molon and have enjoyed reading his accuracy findings for years, but he comes across as completely unreasonable here. He is likely expecting a level of perfection that is not possible in the current climate, which seems to be absolute perfection with absolutely no issues, ever. That is absolutely unrealistic. Maybe that's not the case, but that is certainly how the OP reads.

Also, I never said that he should just keep the rail and and deal with it. If you can find where I said such a thing then by all means quote me. I never said that the issue was of no concern. I gave a detailed post about issues I've had with other well regarded manufacturers, and in nearly all of those instances the issue was resolved by contacting the manufacturer. Again, were talking about inanimate objects manufactured by human beings, at a time when the industry in question is running all out to keep up with demand. There's bound to be mistakes. Just contact the manufacturer and tell them about the issue like a rational adult. If they take care of it, call it a day. If they blow you off.. THEN let the world know your experience.

Worst thread in tech 2022 starting out early.

Hell, even M4C has rules against this sort of thing.

Contact the manufacturer and seek a resolution.

I'm surprised Bendy Bill hasn't told the jannies to pull the plug on this thread yet LOL

Thank you for your service, Molon!