It amazes me the amount of controversy the Colt name dredges up.  I have to admit that I am a Colt cult member.....BUT I have little, if anything, negative to say about the top tier manufacturers like Bushie ( I own one ) Armalite, RRA or ANY manufacturer that does its best to turn out a good AR.  In fact, most of us Colt folks also own other manufacturers AR's.  I for one think bushie does a darn good job and I have yet to see an Armalite M 15 that isn't gorgeous.

 My job entails a large amount of QC.  I work for a large automotive manufacturing vendor ( TRW ) and I have spent MANY years of time in QC functions and manufacturing at many different levels.  I choose Colt as my top AR because I know Colt is a factory that has specific standards it has to meet to be approved as a major international manufacturer and I understand manufacturing processes.  I know that over time, Colt's processes and systems of checks and balances will turn out the best bang for my buck on the average, ESPECIALLY if I need to trust my gun explicitely.  This doesn't mean I don't trust my Bushie, I doesn't mean I fear any of the RRA parts in some of my guns...not at all.  In fact some of these manufacturers have ADVANTAGES over large scale manufacturers because they can put extra time into guns to make them prettier, smoother or able to conform to a particular niche spec.  Large factories cannot often do this economically.

   Speaking from a manufacturing point of view, there is a VERY good reason to choose Colt over other manufacturers particuarly if you need or may need to depend on that gun to save your life or protect others.  A lot if this is in how Colt checks components, sample parts and guns for testing and how they work to confrom to International Industrial Standards.  If any of you are in large scale manufacturing  then you know what I mean.  

HOWEVER: an immense part of the AR market doesn't necessarily NEED their AR for anything but having a damn good time.  It's about enjoyment, shooting, comraderie and all out fun.  I am NOT saying that a non-Colt gun is useless for self defense....NOT AT ALL.  If your AR works, works all the time and hits like it should....then you are probably good to go and who am I to make your choice for you.  A good AR is a good AR, plain and simple.  What matters is reliability, accuracy, aesthtics and personal fulfillment.  What more do you truly need?

For the record, most of us Colt guys haven't one single problem with Bushie, RRA, Armalite, Wilson or any other high tier manufactuer....we just have a preference for Colt and there are SOLID reasons beyond tradition and Colt's MANAGEMENT'S poor political choices....some of which are absolutely  real and others, nothing but internet fueled rumor.

 So, that being said.....................


 I am a member of the Colt Cult....signing in.

Colts suck, they have a pony on the side of them, Mustangs suck, their emblem is a pony, Cowboys suck, they ride horses...  there is a strend here...

I'm KIDDING!!!!  I have only shot Colts in the USMC, and they are fine weapons.  I would own one if I could afford one, but I rather spend less for something of the like.  My 2 RRA's suit me and my wife just fine.

It's whatever floats your boat around here, I don't think anyone has the exact same rig in ARFCOM, unless you wanna talk the bone stock AR's.  It just goes to show you the the AR-15 design is rock solid.  Anyone can make them!!!!  

 Yepper!!!

I have couple of Colts in the safe, but if I'm grabbing a rifle for a day at the range then my Bushy gets picked up everytime.

This will hopefully change when my factory 11" SBR Colt comes in.   Someday

If they would just BAN AR's from civlian use, the Colt Debate would be over!

That said....   VIVA COLT!

I'm a Colt Cultie but don't badmouth the other brands, just prefer Colt, Back in the late 80's and early 90's when I got most of my Colts they were the only major player except for maybe Bushmaster.  After the AWB I did spring for a LE6920, just had to have one.  Now I got enough AR's probably won't buy another one.

Quoted: Now I got enough AR's probably won't buy another one.

Is everything okay?  Do you need someone to talk to?  What do you mean you won't buy another one???

I have 3 Colt ARs...

(... and 3 Bushys, 3 CavArms, 4 DPMSs, 2 Olys, 1 Armalite, 1 EA, 1 RRA, 1 Stag, and 6 Mega Gator builds. )

I guess you'd have to call me an unfaithful member of the cult.  

Quoted: Quoted: Now I got enough AR's probably won't buy another one. Is everything okay?  Do you need someone to talk to?  What do you mean you won't buy another one???

I got 6 total now and a 9mm AR6450 in the works for a total of 7, there may be an 8th, 9th, etc in my future but right now I'm pretty satisfied

Quoted: I got 6 total now and a 9mm AR6450 in the works for a total of 7, there may be an 8th, 9th, etc in my future but right now I'm pretty satisfied

Just checking... as long as you MIGHT get a couple more, your okay...

That was very well said but reguardless of how you try to explain it this will still turn into a Colt bashing thread because some people just like to bitch

Quoted: I have 3 Colt ARs... (... and 3 Bushys, 3 CavArms, 4 DPMSs, 2 Olys, 1 Armalite, 1 EA, 1 RRA, 1 Stag, and 6 Mega Gator builds. ) I guess you'd have to call me an unfaithful member of the cult.

Me too

Two Bushmasters, two LMTs, and more Rock Rivers than I care to admit to my wife count here. I've been called the bastardized king of the Colt snobs here, yet the rampant pony makes up only about 1/3 of my collection.

Oh well

Quoted: That was very well said but reguardless of how you try to explain it this will still turn into a Colt bashing thread because some people just like to bitch

Yep.

Colts are fine, and while I'm not a cult member, I enjoy mine.

Haven't you guys learned by now? They all suck! Except Hesse.

While I appreciate your candid opinion on the subject, some Colt cult members don't play the game that way.  And, of course, the loud, beligerant voice of the minority becomes the voice of all, in some's eyes.  

I personally try to use Colt parts where it actually matters.  There are places where an equivalent, in spec part will do EXACTLY the same thing the Colt logo'd part does and in some cases more (RDIAS/RLL compatibility comes to mind).  

I don't agree with their needless PC sales tactics, but what can I do about it.  It doesn't affect me in the least, as long as I can still get the parts I want.  I definitely disagree with some of the quality sacrifices they have made in the civilian line of rifles, though, such as plastic buffers, non-chrome lined bores, etc.  

Unless somebody sells me a factory rifle as some ridiculously low price, I doubt that I will ever own a factory built rifle ever again.

I only have 2 AR's, a factory 6920 and a home-built on a Stag lower with all Colt internals. I guess I'm a Colt Cult (R) member.

Quoted: Having owned a Colt and sold it I can say that I am not a Colt Kool Aid drinker. I do however think they are top quality and would NEVER tell anyone not to buy one. With that being said, I can build a Colt upper and buy direct from the manufacturer that Colt buys them from for a lot less money. Some of the upper receivers I get even have the C stamping on them or the M4 stamp over the gas hole! The barrels I use are SHAW (same manufacturer Colt uses) and they are 1/7 5.56 NATO with M4 barrel extensions and the steel is 4150.

Not trying to say you're wrong, or say there is anything wrong with the E.R. Shaw or M1S barrels, but their site only shows 4140 barrels. Is this the wrong Shaw website? Do they use different steel for the Colt barrels?

Confusing.

I'm a Colt fan since '71 when I got my first new SP1 rifle at that time. My former Colt rifles were A2 HBAR with A1 sights, A2 HBAR with A2 sights, '89 A2 Sporter 2 and '89 Lightweight Carbine.

I didn't have any Colt rifle for the past 3 years and just got my sixth one last March which was an M16A2 20-inch Gov't. profile upper with a LE 6721 Tactical Carbine lower.

The recent one I just got is a LMT M4 type 16-inch carbine. I'm planning to get a Stag Arms when they have a Mil-Spec model available. I prefer Mil-Spec guns.

The other rifles that I have are Steyr AUG-P 16-inch with optional NATO black stock which accepts M16/ AR-15 magazines, IMI Galil AR 16-inch, Polytech AK-47 7.62X39mm side fold stock, Polytech AK-47 with folding spike bayonet & wood stock, Polytech SKS, Springfield Armory M1A NM, FN FAL L1A1 and WWII International Harvester M1 Garand (from CMP/ DCM).

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Having owned a Colt and sold it I can say that I am not a Colt Kool Aid drinker. I do however think they are top quality and would NEVER tell anyone not to buy one. With that being said, I can build a Colt upper and buy direct from the manufacturer that Colt buys them from for a lot less money. Some of the upper receivers I get even have the C stamping on them or the M4 stamp over the gas hole! The barrels I use are SHAW (same manufacturer Colt uses) and they are 1/7 5.56 NATO with M4 barrel extensions and the steel is 4150. Not trying to say you're wrong, or say there is anything wrong with the E.R. Shaw or M1S barrels, but their site only shows 4140 barrels. Is this the wrong Shaw website? Do they use different steel for the Colt barrels? Confusing. E.R. Shaw does ONLY use 4140 steel. Colt and other companies have the 4150 steel brought in and have them use that SPECIFICALY for their barrels. I have spoken to E.R. Shaw at length about 4140 VS 4150. They advise that there isn't enough difference to worry about it (ESPECIALLY if you chrome line the barrel). C4

I see. Yep, I am a big proponent of chromelined bores/chambers.

I'm not a Colt cultist exactly-- but for some unknown reason the males in my family have always bought Colt handguns over other brands. Go figure. My friend is that way with S&Ws. He finally convinced me to buy one-- a Model 657-- and I really like it, but if I could get an Anaconda chambered in .41 Magnum I'd probably sell it. (I know another Smitty guy who has been pestering me for it for years, so it would be easy to do.) I own quite a few Colt pistols, autos and revolvers, large and small bore, but currently only one rifle: a medium-frame Lightning. Go figure. Someday I'll buy a Colt M4, but I'm having so much fun building ARs that I begrudge them the absurd prices they charge. That's my story-- and I'm sticking to it.

I like shooting them all but I prefer my Colts.

I like them all but at the moment I only own a Bushmaster. So can someone give me a few examples of what parts or manufacturing techniques that are used to make Colt a higher quality piece than a Bushmaster?

I love my Colt's but own other variants as well.  They are all good.  I think most bashers don't have one or just like to bitch.  If you don't like them don't buy em.

I have used Colt's in the Marine Corps and now we have FN's.  The M4s are still Colt's but I have used my FN in Iraq and it worked well.  

Bottom line, buy what you like.  Colt haters will always find something to bitch about.  I say don't get mad, buy a Colt.

Max

   Well, not really a Colt cultist but as I have collected and shot them for about 22 years I have more then a few. That being said I also have a RRA and except for ammo related problems,[NOT THE GUN!!!] is has been very good. Had a DPMS lower with a 1/12 old/new  GI A1 BBL mated with a A2 upper that I sold that was a great shooter with 40gr Blitz and varmit LW bullets. Wish I had kept that one, but then I always regret selling a gun later. I am pretty much done with buying ARs for the moment, and going to concentrate on doing more shooting this summer.  Worked WAY to much OT last summer and missed out on both shooting and fishing, won't happen again this year. I will say I still have the first AR I ever bought, A 89' Colt A2 sporter target, that has never bobbled one time since I bought it. I do wish that Colt had not weenied down the civi versions and would not buy one as there are way to many other good makers that are doing it right. The LEO version are nice tho and I have at least one of each of those.

I used to have one.  It was my first.  I traded it for another brand and immediately figured out that Colt makes no better rifle than anyone else.  That left me to judge them based on the mirth of their company.  You should know the conclusion I came up with.

Cultist here.

They make great AR's, probably the best.  That is not to say other s do not make good rifles and or parts.  My latest build used a Stag Lower, CMT Upper, and a Colt barrel, bolt and carrier - the heart of any AR, and arguably Colt's finest components.

I think all but one of my AR's have at least one Colt part in them, but only 4 are purebreds

It's the Colt haters I don't understand - why hate a company, because you cannot afford their products, or because you don't agree with their politics?  I don't hate Ferarri because I can't afford one, but I did give up drinking French wine...

Quoted: I traded it for another brand and immediately figured out that Colt makes no better rifle than anyone else.

For amateur use, that may be true.

For professional use, I beg to differ.

If insisting that serious firearms be properly proofed makes me a Cultist, then so be it.

Count me in, although I do own a bushmaster and have a bushmaster lower in the safe                    (sprouting) I have never had any regrets about purchasing a Colt or using Colt parts.

Quoted: I personally try to use Colt parts where it actually matters.  There are places where an equivalent, in spec part will do EXACTLY the same thing the Colt logo'd part does and in some cases more (RDIAS/RLL compatibility comes to mind).   I don't agree with their needless PC sales tactics, but what can I do about it.  It doesn't affect me in the least, as long as I can still get the parts I want.  I definitely disagree with some of the quality sacrifices they have made in the civilian line of rifles, though, such as plastic buffers, non-chrome lined bores, etc.   Unless somebody sells me a factory rifle as some ridiculously low price, I doubt that I will ever own a factory built rifle ever again.

While I have been accused of being a Colt Cult member, I do not consider myself one in the least. I would say mongo's response is very close to my feelings on the subject. We only differ on two points.

1. About the only factory built AR I would buy would be a Colt, specifically a MT6400C. They can usually be had for around $900 which is not unreasonable at all and would make a great base for a number of different projects without having to replace very many parts at all.

2. I try to avoid building "Franken AR's" meaning if I had a Colt upper, I would spend the extra money to get a Colt lower to match it. If I had a BM upper, I would find a BM lower to match. RRA Upper, RRA lower, etc.. I know an Ameetec, Stag or Mega lowers are just as good but less expensive but this is just an anal thing with me.

Quoted: Quoted: I personally try to use Colt parts where it actually matters.  There are places where an equivalent, in spec part will do EXACTLY the same thing the Colt logo'd part does and in some cases more (RDIAS/RLL compatibility comes to mind).   I don't agree with their needless PC sales tactics, but what can I do about it.  It doesn't affect me in the least, as long as I can still get the parts I want.  I definitely disagree with some of the quality sacrifices they have made in the civilian line of rifles, though, such as plastic buffers, non-chrome lined bores, etc.   Unless somebody sells me a factory rifle as some ridiculously low price, I doubt that I will ever own a factory built rifle ever again. While I have been accused of being a Colt Cult member, I do not consider myself one in the least. I would say mongo's response is very close to my feelings on the subject. We only differ on two points. 1. About the only factory built AR I would buy would be a Colt, specifically a MT6400C. They can usually be had for around $900 which is not unreasonable at all and would make a great base for a number of different projects without having to replace very many parts at all. 2. I try to avoid building "Franken AR's" meaning if I had a Colt upper, I would spend the extra money to get a Colt lower to match it. If I had a BM upper, I would find a BM lower to match. RRA Upper, RRA lower, etc.. I know an Ameetec, Stag or Mega lowers are just as good but less expensive but this is just an anal thing with me.

Thanks for the great Colt 69-whatever-the-f--k barrel you sold me.  It now lives attached to a CMT upper receiver with a JP bolt carrier in it and attached to a Bushmaster lower.

IT'S ALIVE!!!!

Quoted: Thanks for the great Colt 69-whatever-the-f--k barrel you sold me.  It now lives attached to a CMT upper receiver with a JP bolt carrier in it and attached to a Bushmaster lower. www.websmileys.com/sm/aliens/hae18.gifIT'S ALIVE!!!!www.websmileys.com/sm/aliens/hae18.gif

Glad to hear (read it) but where the hell are the pics?!

I like RRA.

That said, if Colt cost less (not less than Bushy, just close in price), and offered them in a configuration I wanted (pre-ban 20" A2 w/bayo lug and threaded muzzle NEW) I probably would get one.

WIZZO

Another Colt Cultist here. I once had a bushmaster carbine, but I sold it...the damn thing was purple.

Here's a pic of my humble little collection. I also have a 6920 HB, but it's not pictured.

Scott

img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/Bullitt3401/myblackrifles.jpg

I like Colt.  Nuff said?

I like the fact that my Colt-based AR's are the most reliable one's I own?

My BM lower doesn't take Thermold magazines?  What's up with that!

My BM carbine extension doesn't take all other retractable stocks?  What's up with that?

The large pin issue for trigger parts?  I can live with that as easily at BM owner can live with the above issues.  

BTW, I do own BM and RRA lowers.  But if I have to choose in a Zombie situation?  Colt baby!

I'd have gone with Colt for my latest (and first after a long time) AR but for a couple of things.  First, they're harder (for me anyway) to find than other brands.  Second, their policies about LEO-type rifles, which are the models I'm more interested in, make it even harder for me to find what I want.  And they are VERY proud of their products and price them accordingly.

Last Fall I got a Rock River mid-length carbine for about $775 out the door at a gun show.  I saw 3 Colts there, all post-ban, all plain 20" rifles, and all priced over $1200.  There were Olympic and DPMS out the ears, a bunch of Bushies, and a few RRAs as well (the guy I bought from specializes in "make your own rifle-choose a complete upper and then a complete lower to go with it, all from RRA parts).  

The dealers I know of around me either don't have a clue, want to charge me (a LOT) for walking into the door, or are apparently anti-gun or at least anti-AR, so I haven't even asked any of them what they'd charge for an FFL transfer if I ordered a Colt from one of our ARFCOM friends that has them from time to time.  It's depressing.

i love my colt 6920 though i also own a armalite m4c i have never owned a bushmaster but i have seen them at the local gun store that i hang out at for hours on saturday they look like well made rifles  and my local police cheif swears by them and he hates colts but to me colts the best  becuse of the way colt tests them

all i know is my peter grew 1 3/4" the day I brought my 6721 home.

Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for the great Colt 69-whatever-the-f--k barrel you sold me.  It now lives attached to a CMT upper receiver with a JP bolt carrier in it and attached to a Bushmaster lower. IT'S ALIVE!!!! Glad to hear (read it) but where the hell are the pics?!

Go here - middle of page 1 is the before and after - both barrels were Colt, BTW, the old is a 14.5" and the new is the 16" I got off of you.

Various observations here:

Colts:    

I have had the opportunity to handle a number of Colt products, including ARs, over the years and find that the fit, finish and function were predictable.  

Colt has never been a company to respond quickly to consumer criticism but has had high, and predictable, standards of manufacture.  1911 shooters will relate quickly.  The Colts have always had a great consistency, but required trigger, port, sight, and grip safety work, as well as cosmetic and comfort work, to be considered "Great" handguns.  

Colt ARs seem to be among the best products they have produced.  Fit, finish and function are predictably high, although I hear lately (Spring '05) that they are slapping parts together pending sale or reconstitution or whatever.  I did see one Colt AR recently that had the worst finish of any AR that I have seen in the modern era.  I hesitate to attribute this to Colt, and wonder if it might have been some Colt lower with a poorly finished generic clone upper.   I didn't have the chance to examine more closely, but my radar went up.  Judgement deferred.  Overall, over the years the Colts are excellent, truly excellent.

All in all:  Colt makes a great rifle;  what's not to like except the price.

Oh yah.  Customer service.  Colt totally disrespects civilian pukes.  I may buy a Colt because it's a great rifle, but I won't run to do it.   BTW,  all of you LEOs and Military Members (and Thank You all, with deepest respect) will once again be...civilian pukes in the future.  It's a short season.

Summary:   It's a case by case deal.  I like Colts.  If I could pick up a nice Colt carbine for under a thousand I might do it (no money right now).  On the other hand, I have a clean Oly PCR that has had zero FTFs and a RRA 16" M4 that shoots better than I do (Thank You RB Precision).  Whether the 4150 steel of a Colt barrel will sag later than my RRA/Wilson 4140 will probably not find the answer in me.

Isn't it great that we have so many options.  Funny how THE BAN  made us appreciate this more acutely.

Get out and practice.

Regards Folks,

Rick

One Colt and one bushmaster for me!

Dupe Topic

Colt in the late 80's thru the 90's:

Put plastic triggers on even their hi-dollar 1911 models.  Everything from the plain jane 1991 to the Gold Cups.

We started seeing very sloppy milling marks on their 1911(style) barrels especially the Commanders and Defenders.

The rear sites on their 1911(type) seemed to have a problem with drifting or falling our all together.   Lost count of how many I had to send back to the factory for that.

They started shipping 1911 mags with cheesey orange soft plastic followers that they eventually had to voluntarilly recall.

For a while we began to suspect they were using water color paint to make the white dots on their 1911(style) sights.  Minimum exposure to Hoppes Solvent or Gun Scrubber and the dots would whippe of with a rag.

They started using floppy plastic hinges on the AR buttstock cubby holes.

For a while they stopped chrome lining their barrels and chambers on Civilian AR models.

Before the AWB event took affect they started installing Sear Blocks in their AR lowers, a big fuck you to the Class III crowd.

Can you say Blue Label-Pre-ban AR.  Before the AWB Colt stopped putting bayonet lugs on their AR's and switched to the partial Bird Cage "Flash Supressor" designating it as a Flash Supressor when indead it was more of a muzzle break.  So no Bird Cage for anyone during the AWB and if you wanted to use a BFA on an AWB era Colt AR.  To bad so sad.

During this time I observed that Colt prices were anually increasing at a rate of 10 to 12% while most other manufacturers were increasing 4 to 6% except H&K.

Not to mention all the Tax money they've been granted to do R&D on the so called smart guns that can only be fired by their owner.

For a while in 2000 I thought Colt was going to straighten up and fly right when they assigned that retired Marine as the new CEO but eventually it was business as usual.

I hope Colt loses it's lawsuit again Quality Parts/Bushmaster.

My first 1911 style pistol was a 1991 with a plastic trigger.

My first AR-15 was a pre-ban SP1, my second was a post ban HB Carbine.  I eventually traded up to Kimber and Bushmaster.

Another big mistake I think Colt made was when they abandoned their DA/SA Revolver lines.

I don't hate Colt.  I just won't own one ever again.....

I'm a Colt cultist......only have 2 ARs but they are both Colt.........all of my 1911s are Colt.......sure I've had others (Kimber, SA, SVI, STI, etc) but my Colts will NEVER get sold.

I should post a pic of the quality that colt lets out the door on there leo line.  Upper looks someone went freestyle with a grinder. This leaves me to belive that the colt leo line is nothing more than parts that would be rejected by uncle same so colt uses them for there leo line.

I would like to see colt turn there act around and start makking more than one good rifle pistol. But that is up to there union workers.

Quoted: I should post a pic of the quality that colt lets out the door on there leo line.  Upper looks someone went freestyle with a grinder. This leaves me to belive that the colt leo line is nothing more than parts that would be rejected by uncle same so colt uses them for there leo line. I would like to see colt turn there act around and start makking more than one good rifle pistol. But that is up to there union workers.

LOL can u say propaganda.

I'll post a pic before the weekend is up.