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Very nice! |
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So who knows what the GAU's where affectionately called by those that built them? |
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I'm curious now... |
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I hear you brother, but good men fought the good fight, and sometimes thats the best we've got. I still pray for all our POW/ MIAs, they've never stopped needing us. |
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Benjamin Schemmer's book The Raid. Get the revised edition with the declassified information.
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Maj Meadows son was my Company CDR when I was in LRS.
FREE
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After stumbling across this thread I got inspired to re-read Schemmer's book. From page 65 of the revised and updated edition - "The raid would be launched at night for maximum surprise and to lessen the chance of the helicopters being detected as they flew into North Vietnam. Parachute flares would be dropped over the camp seconds before the first helicopters set down to blind the guards(the raiders would wear protective goggles) and let the helicopters land safely". Dick Meadows was working for Delta Force when the Iran hostage rescue took place. Read the book "The Guts to Try" by Col. James H. Kyle, USAF(ret.) - excellent! |
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Cool |
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thats about where mine is |
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Is there any info on this site about how to do this well? I know that some people have done it, but I didn't find any detailed step by step threads about it. I was looking into ASA, but that project doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. Thanks for any info. |
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Explain please!!! |
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uxb(or others) where can I get an A1 upper with forward assist like yours for a Colt SP1 large hole lower?
I want to replicate an XM177E1. Did the E1 have a 10" or 10 1/4" barrel? Model 1 Sales has a 10 1/4" barrel, but I thought the E1 had a 10" barrel. |
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Impressive pages, Tweak. I didnt realize you had organized all that good stuff Thanks! |
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thanks, that's just the Glossary tho,been working on more
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When the " want ads" went out it was for single men only, E5's and above. The single part was due to the fact they were expecting heavy losses. The raid was flawless excepting for a brief time they thought they had lost one man but it turned out he was on the wrong bird home, so all ended well.
As to the chopper jock crash landing his slick in the compound. It was NOT part of the plan. during the plan phase they kept stating due to I belive it was 1 tree they couldn't get a bird in, well said pilot just "matter of factly", stated I can set it down in the compound if you can find me another ride home.....talk about guts. And to the current grunt who griped about todays armed forces, the armed forces are a reflection of our society....ALWAYS have been. There is very little sense of duty to ones country or to ones brothers in arms. we live in a "me society", as in whats in it, whats good for me. I was explaining to my daughter the other day about commitment and purpose how in my day 6 guys would get shot to hell to retrieve a buddies body, couldn't leave him behind and all that.....well todays it's more like F him he's dead, lets go! My daughter had and has a hard time understanding this principle but I try. |
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Thankyou, its a lost concept to many people. |
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I looked on Amazon but did not see any "revised edition". Could you point me in the right direction? |
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The book is there on Amazon - only 5 used and new from re-sellers
The Raid : The Son Tay Prison Rescue Mission by Benjamin F. Schemmer (Paperback) Search for Schemmer and look for the one about 5 down. The cover of the book has a picture of a C-130 refueling a xH-53. Click on the book for a larger view and you can see it says "revised and updated" in a black bullet above the title. I think this is the correct book. |
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If I have an 11.5 barrel and put on a 4.5 inch flash hider = 16 inches, is this legal.
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No. 11.5" barrel plus 4.5" flash suppressor only measures 15.5" because you have 0.5" overlap where your barrel threads into the flash suppressor.
You would have to Form1 it as a short-barreled rifle and pay a $200 NFA tax if you used that combination. You could send the 4.5 moderator and a 16" barrel to ADCO, tell them to chop it down and permanently attach the flash suppressor to an overall length of 16.1" and you would be perfectly legal without having to go the SBR Route. |
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+1 |
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Now that is groovy. |
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By the way, Ekie, that's your old chromed carrier in that project. Thanks for the deal! Metaloy is going to chrome two more carriers for my XM607s, too.
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I guess retro is cool, I have an uncle that has an XM177E2 SBR.
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I dig chrome. |
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My CO, Keith Grimes, was the Weather Officer on the raid. Here is a transcript of the raid.
home.earthlink.net/~aircommando1/SONTAYRA1.htm |
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I think I may still consider having a low-profile sight machined if I can draw up some measurements and prints.
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I went ahead and ordered one..
Once the Singlepoint arrives, I'll post pics of the mount and the sight... I'll still interested in a mount if you get one worked up... |
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cool, i'm NOT going crazy or forgetful, i KNEW i didn't remember that display from my own trip to the JFK SF museum (visited there and the 82nd Divisional museum with my father when he had business at Bragg). somewhere i HAVE seen an offical display about the raid showing an XM-177 with the sight attatched with black electrical type tape. not sure though if that was at JFK, the AF museum or any number of other such locations. just remember registering the fact adn thinking it was kinda weird. |
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does this mean we're going to have to try to find that "Tactical Retro Electrical Tape"?
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Do they make repro Singlepoints? If so, where can I find them?
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Nope..you have to search for them. Post WTB ads over at Subguns or here... |
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That's the one I went with. 9 bucks? I paid 15! You can see that they're pretty rough, I cleaned mine up with a file and refinished it. As for low profile, the sight on mine sits about 1/4" higher than the carry-handle at its closest point, so you could do better. I'm not sure about what the folks at JFK had to say. I know in "The Raid" it's mentioned specifically that they ordered mounts with the sights. It said that they had a problem with them breaking too easy, and couldn't get enough anyway, so they went with the black tape for some guys. The one in the picture had to come from somewhere... |
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Is it a decent mount, after cleaning it up and refinishing it?
I could not find another mount that was not weaver like and not a one-piece. |
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Thought I'd do some research since there's a lot of conflicting info here:
"The Raid" goes into a lot of detail about the sight and mount. The dimensions given in the book are 6 3/4" long, 1" diameter, 7 1/2 ounces. The book also mentions that the sights were distributed in MN by Normark (the Rapala folks) and had a 16-page manual which said they were made to military specs. I can confirm this, as I have the same manual that came with my "spherical" sight. An 8-foot drop test is also mentioned in both the manual and "The Raid". My old conical tip Singlepoint on my rifle in the pic measures 7 1/4", but the spherical tip version I have measures 6 3/4". I don't have links to the Son Tay pictures, but the ones that show the sight mounted on rifles always kind of looked like the spherical version to me. I wish I knew when Singlepoint switched from the conical tip to the spherical. Can somebody post the pictures? I know one is of CPT Dick Meadows, and I think the other was MSG Billy K. Moore. From "The Raid" on page 120-121..."there were problems with the mount; it tended to wear loose and sometimes break off," and "Simons's three-man armament laboratory told him they had a fix for the mount - a generous use of black electrician's tape." Looks like there had to be a mount of some kind, not just black tape. The raid pictures also look like there is a mount, though it's hard to tell. On page 301 in "The Black Rifle" there is a 1975 pic from an Army reflex-sight trial. One has the newer, spherical Singlepoint, and it's mounted with standard rings on a cheap Weaver-type mount. The mount doesn't look at all like the one mounted on the wall in the pic above. In John Plaster's picture book, there are a couple of pictures some other oddball sight I've never seen, but the captions call them Singlepoints. I know one of the pics is in the Son Tay section, but it's not of a Son Tay raider. These sights are also a lot longer than the 6 3/4" mentioned in "The Raid", so I don't think they can be the type used at Son Tay. Hope this helps, and fell free to argue if you feel like it. I'm starting to think maybe the spherical tip sights might be more correct, please tell me I'm wrong. |
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It's not a bad mount, pretty solid. It does have the hallmark of all cheap mounts: glued-in soft "pads" inside the rings. Definitely nothing I'd use on a more serious rifle, but for a project like this, I'm happy. Besides, what the hell, it's 9.99. I know there's a more expensive "Colt" marked version out there that looks exactly the same. Not sure if the quality would be any better. |
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