Non inverter types like the big one will drink fuel. Inverter types can speed up or slow down with the loads, this saves fuel.

Inverter generator thread

I also used to think getting the biggest, highest watt gen was the thing to do…and many of them are so incredibly cheap…but then in other threads I was cautioned about fuel efficiency. I didn’t want to have to refuel every four hours in a subzero blizzard at 2am. That would stink! So I ordered the right size for my needs with the longest runtime.

Keep in mind that you can't even buy an inverter genny that large. The closest I know of is the Honda 6500i which is half the size for a cool $7,000 (IIRC).

Let's say an equal sized inverter costs $10k and will use half as much gas, saving you $36/day. The break even point is running 253 days of continuous generator use (not necessarily all at once, just 253 full days of run time). Do you anticipate that many days without power? That's just an example with made up numbers to illustrate my point.


I think a better long term plan is to buy a normal generator sized to meet your need when running ALL your critical systems. If that means running your A/C in the summer, size it for that. THEN, if the budget allows, get a small inverter to handle critical needs (lighting, freezer, etc) for the times you aren't running the big loads. Something like a Honda 2200i (2200 watt) or quality competitor.

Examples of big loads: electric heaters, A/C and heat pumps, electric water heaters, electric dryers, electric ovens/cooktops.

Despite what some may believe, fridges & freezers don't usually draw much. Usually they are around 100-300 watts. Frost free appliances usually have an electric heating element for defrosting, that can draw a few hundred watts, disable that and keep it disabled until you start to have moisture/ice issues.

Other loads to be aware of: pumps like well pumps, sewage grinder pumps, sump pumps etc., coffee makers and pressure cookers with electric heating elements.


Note: the 459 cc engine on your linked generator usually equates to 15.8 hp (HP isn't listed). 15.8 hp = 11,787 watts with perfect energy conversion. I would be skeptical that it can actually produce that without severe impacts to the frequency, or wave form. Many cheaper generators undersize the copper in the windings. This isn't a problem under low loads, but as the load increases it usually means the wave form deforms away from a sine wave and "clipping" can occur. Clipping is where the peaks of the sine wave get cut off because of the undersized copper windings.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I get lost in engineer-level discussions and don’t have the patience for it. Just give it to me in layman’s terms or draw it out in pictures. I once put in an electrical subpanel by copying what an electrician did in a friend’s home. Probably shouldn’t have, I know, but that was 15 years ago and the house hasn’t burned down yet. This summer I’ll be putting in an interlock kit and receptacle for that gen to plug into, based on what others here have shown me. Arfcom has probably saved me thousands in labor fees!

Still wondering why Honda doesn’t make a dual fuel generator.

They aren't made for several reasons. Inverter generators are more costly to make, especially in larger sizes, and the price tag means very low demand. 10 years ago the largest inverter was a 3000 watt, then Honda released the 6500i. I can't say there will never be one made that large, but the added cost and decreased benefit in that size means it's unlikely.

Why is there decreased benefit in larger sizes? Inverter generators actually operate with more losses, but they make up for it with the ability to throttle down to match the load. A standard generator must run at it's designed rpm no matter what the load is to make the proper frequency (60 hz). An inverter generator makes AC electricity, rectifies it to DC, stores it in capacitors, then inverts it back to AC electricity. This is what allows it to decrease rpm when not running at max load (the inverter portion keeps the output at 60 hz no matter what speed the engine runs). But every step (rectifying, storing in capacitors, inverting to AC) has added losses. In the case of large generators, usually the people using them (if properly sized) are running them near max load to run their A/C, oven, etc, which means an inverter generator wouldn't save much. Near max load the inverter may actually use more gas because of the added losses.

Another thing to consider is that 1800 rpm generators will operate more efficiently than 3600 rpm generators, especially when running below their rated loads. All cheap generators are 3600 rpm.




This is my dumbed down answer in keeping with the theme of this thread. That depends. Is your dryer electric? Which generator are you asking about, the 12kw or the 2200 watt inverter I mentioned?

The 12kw will most certainly run an electric (or gas) dryer. Most residential electric dryers do not exceed 7200 watts (240V, 30 amp breaker). A 2200 watt inverter will not run an electric dryer however because electric dryers require 240 volts and small inverter generators are only 120 volts. Gas dryers require only a small 120 V supply to run the controls and turn the drum.

As far as washing machines go, yes (both generators will), with a caveat. Some washing machines have an electric heating element to correct water temp if it come in below the needed temp. This element alone will not exceed the capacity of a 2200 watt inverter but combined with other loads it could. Standard NEMA 5-15R receptacles (your standard receptacles in the wall in your home) are limited to 12A continuous draw, or 1440 watts (120V x 12A). Because washing machines (even those that have an internal heating element) use a standard plug they cannot exceed 1440 watts continuous draw or 1800 watts surge. 1800 watts is less than 2200 watts so it's nearly a guarantee that a 2200 watt inverter will run a washing machine, depending on the specific machine that may be all it can run. But if you select cold water it shouldn't try to use the heating element (if equipped) so it should use far less than 1800 watts.

Op i had that exact big gen for 4 years, 250 hours or so. Burns about .75 gallons an hour no load or half load. It's Very LOUD all the time.
I had no problems with mine, i paid $699 shipped for mine from Amazon.
I finally sold it this summer ($500) after i picked up a WEN 3800 invertor ($599)to pair with my 3yo predator 3500. Together they make more amps and use 1/3 the fuel doing it and you can't even hear them running unless you stand right next to them. Only Downside is NO 240VOLT. Not a big for me.

WEN 3800 $649 today

Inverter generators have revolutionized portable generators, just that the old products are a little cheaper and still on the market for those who haven't seen the light yet.

A non-inverter type generator must run at a specific RPM continuously in order to generate correctly. They have a mechanism for the throttle to adjust to maintain the RPM, but even with no load they are running at full steam. IIRC the common RPM is like 3600, which is what is needed to correctly make the required AC power frequency with typical generator setups.

By contrast, on an inverter type, the inverter circuitry takes care of making the correct AC power waveform and frequency, so the engine can run at any RPM, just as long as it is producing enough power to meet the load. WIthout an electrical load, it can idle.. and even at heavy loads, the engine can be designed to run at lower RPMs so is quieter. There are losses in the system, but an efficiency advantage becomes greater and greater as the usage goes down because the engine can reduce speed.

Another great advantage to inverter generators is that they can easily be connected in parallel for larger load capacity. Two 2000 watt generators can be connected together, run one for 2000 watts, or start up the second one to give you up to 4000 watts.

For most users looking for some kind of backup/emergency power for a home etc, the idea of a 7000, 10000 or whatever large non-inverter generator is a terrible concept IMO. If you need that much power, you really need an installed backup system with a larger engine, larger fuel supply that's designed for longer term usage, etc. Properly distributing that much power is an issue with some electrical safety concerns, big wire gauges etc with a portable generator of that size. Fuel is going to be a serious issue.

The biggest generators we've ever had are 3500~4000 watts.

Which has powered... a home and farm buildings, with lights, propane furnace, radio, and electric skillet for cooking, lights as needed in outbuildings and fence charger, also with fridge and well water pump in the mix. If you had a perfect storm of everything trying to run at once it would drag it down, but that worked for days at a time during a few winter storm situations. And that was before energy saving lighting.

3500 watts has also powered... modern TV/satellite dish, energy-saving lights, two electric heaters set for midrange power (~700 watts each), microwave, well pump, fridge. And phone chargers and a laptop at times.

And also all of the above with a window AC instead of the heaters.

Even with a 3500 watt non-inverter gen, you go through a lot of fuel if you're talking about multiple days.  A bigger generator would go through a lot more fuel, and for most of the time, we just don't need that much power. There are a few times we could use more juice, mostly for some meal prep flexibility.

My current thinking is really along the lines of having a 3500w and a ~2000w inverter generators. 3500 as I said will just cover the necessities, and it's easier these days with energy saving lighting. With a parallel setup, we could start up the 2000 for additional power for meal prep or an extra electric heater if it's cold enough. For a summertime outage, the 2000 alone would power a window AC overnight, with a few lights or small intermittent loads as needed.... start the 3500 in the morning, make breakfast, then shut down the 2000 and let the 3500 handle the daytime TV/lights/computer or whatever is going on.

Sorry for the rambling, but trying to make a few points:
Inverter generators are really a better option for almost everyone using a portable generator.
High wattage generators may sound like a great idea until you have to keep it in fuel, deal with moving it, dealing with the noise, dealing with substantial wiring, etc.
Many people overestimate how much power they really need. Yes you might have to be careful sometimes with not running things at the same time, but with just a little care you can get by with less than you might think.
The paralleling capability of inverter generators adds a whole new dimension to load management, fuel usage and redundancy. One of the answers to why aren't there large inverter generators, is because there isn't much demand for them because you can just parallel smaller units together as needed to get whatever amount of power you need.

If you actually need or want high wattage in a portable generator, a PTO powered generator with a small tractor would be something to consider. It's mobile under its own power, it's designed for long term use, probably gets used and maintained regularly for other things even if just mowing, and can get you as much power as a dedicated home backup generator in a portable package.

Unless you're doing a whole house generator or trying to get enough size to run, say, your HVAC or electric water heater without killing the generator, consider multiple smaller units. Murphy's law applies to generators triple.  Minimum of one will always be down when you need it the most.

Buy one of these : https://www.mrfunnel.com/Mr._Funnel/Home.html ... yes, the name is stupid. But they work. Knowing there won't be water (and other nasty crud) in the fuel is worth it.

I use a ballpark rule of thumb of having a 15% safety buffer in the carrying capacity (wattage output).  Not scientific at all.

If you're going to run electrical cords, figure out how to get them to the generator (which should be outside) without just leaving doors or windows hanging open and get some CO2 sensors - they are cheap insurance. Figure out how to secure your generator while you sleep and it's running.

ETA: You'll want to hit this thread up if you haven't got your fuel storage situation sorted: https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/FUEL-CAN-ORACLE/17-643480/

Generator 101. First and foremost.

Do the start up wattage and continuous run calculations first. Then work out the best solution “for you".

My experience is larger continuous run or standby units with either separate liquid fuel tanks or integrated liquid fuel tanks and noise enclosures. Yachts and houses..in warm climates.
Mostly 20kw-40kw. Although a couple yachts had 60kw units.

In general..those (non-inverter) types of generators are designed to run the most efficient at roughly 80% load or less. Even a 5% increase over rated specs starts a significant decline in fuel efficiency.
They should also not run under 50% load.
So..doing the wattage calculations are important so everything falls into place within the manufacturer specs when you are looking for a gen set.
Pick the gen wattage to match the need for those types of generators.

Depends.  If they're running very lightly-loaded, yes, the inverter will use noticeably less fuel.  Running closer to full load, there will be little to no difference.

I've run inverter and conventional generators.  Considering that if you're talking larger sizes, an inverter generator is several thousand dollars more than conventional, there's always the option of buying conventional, and have a couple thousand more to spend on fuel.  And past a certain size, IDK if inverter models are even available.



One of the first hard lessons of backup power is that use reduction and conservation is MUCH cheaper than paying for more power.  The second lesson is that it's usually cheaper and easier to burn something directly for heat than to run gasoline to a generator and extension cords to space heaters.  Maybe that's propane, maybe that's a drum of kerosene from a local fuel distributor, maybe it's coal, maybe it's a bunch of wood.

The fridge can be run from a smaller generator, and doesn't need power 24/7.  You can, say, run it morning and night.  Or, if it's cold outside, don't even run the fridge... put stuff outside in a cooler, and let the natural cold work for you.   For the hot plate, a $35 butane stove and $10 in butane will do a heck of a lot better job than many people realize.

Also, localize and contain your heat, don't necessarily try to heat the entire house, just a small area where YOU are, and possibly the water lines if you can't turn them off and drain them, or leave them running.  There are lots of ways to whittle away at your energy needs, and hence, your cost.   If you were to go ALL OUT in the conservation, and water lines were taken care of, you could do fine with warm clothes and blankets, $45 in butane stove and fuel, and some headlamps.  People do it all the time in below-freezing camping.

OP,,Your questions etc. lead me to believe that you should be considering a whole house generator set up. I have no idea of your finances but for a relatively small monthly payment all your problems can disappear. We have a KOHLER 30KW natural gas genny and it does it all. Three ac units, entire home plus anything I plug in during power outages. IIRC it was about $12K installed including the auto transfer switch. With zero down that's about $230 per month for five years.

OP, why would you convert gasoline to heat to electricity and then back to heat?  Get propane heaters for emergencies.

FYI, the vast majority of inverter generators are only capable of outputting 120V. For anyone that needs 240V (for a well pump, HVAC system, etc) a 120V inverter generator isn't even an option.

There are very few 240V inverter generators on the market and they're very expensive. For many it has little to do with "seeing the light".

Additionally, in my case, I have one 5500 watt gas and 2 diesel generators (one 5kw, one 6500 watt). The 5500 watt gas will not start my well pump without manipulating loads (have to turn on a midsize load to bog the engine then simultaneously turn that off while turning the well pump on). The added rotating mass of the diesel allows the 5k to do it without manipulating the loads. I would love to have an inverter running my well pump because it's on a separate meter 1/4 mile away so if the pump isn't on its just wasting fuel. But I would need the Honda 6500i and $7k is out of my budget. I live where I lose power a lot and sometimes for multiple days. Even running multiple traditional generators I've never felt that the cost of fuel was so high that it justified purchasing an inverter generator large enough to power my well pump. The last big outage was several days in a heat wave. I ran my whole house geothermal on stage 1 on the 6500 watt to keep the house reasonably comfortable. I know diesel is more efficient (and cheaper when using offroad diesel) so my costs will be lower, but IIRC, I was getting about 14 hours from a 7 gallon tank.

If 240V inverter generators that large had a similar total ownership cost I would definitely consider them. But even being in an area that sees multiple day outages once every 1-3 years I simply will NEVER save enough fuel with an inverter to justify the cost.

That being said, I'm always reevaluating my situation, if the cost of those large inverters changes I would consider it.




I'm not sure I follow the logic in this. To me, the decision point on portable backup vs permanent whole-house has nothing to do with the size of the load. That decision comes down to cost and individual tolerance for a hands-on vs a hands-off system.

The electrical infrastructure for a permanently installed automatic backup is much more costly, as well as the generator itself. A 12kw whole-house system will easily exceed $5k, may be over $10k with everything completed. A 12 kw portable, plus manual interlock on the panel, twist lock inlet, and reasonable length cord should be under $1500 (for a cheap generator). The difference is, with the automatic backup you don't have to get the genny out, hook it up, and flip the interlock. You don't even have to be home. For me, that juice isn't worth the squeeze. Paying several thousand extra to not have to move a generator outside the garage and hook up the cord and periodically add fuel to the tank?

A 12kw generator uses a 50A connection. That isn't "large" nor is it anymore dangerous than a smaller generator. Twist lock inlets and cord ends are still available for reasonable cost.

Sorry if this seems argumentative, it's not intended to be, just trying to offer a totally different perspective.

Ok, I have a bit (lot) of experience here. A few questions before I start recommending things:
What items do you NEED to run? Do they need to be on 24/7 (ie medical devices, internet/cell booster for comms)
What items do you WANT  to run and how often?
Do you mind running the wants only when using them and swapping cords as you change the wants? Using them one at a time?
What is your budget?
Do you have natural gas or propane at the house?

Depending on your answers we can power your stuff for $750 (gen, cords, and plugs) to multiple tens of thousands for a whole home ATS setup.

Fwiw OP I'm looking at hybrid inverter open frame generators that have a 50A output. It's a compromise but I can get one large enough to provide backup power to my house for around $1100.  Installing the electrical to hook it into my panel myself for another $300 or so.  Might tackle the plumbing of my nat gas line for quick disconnect myself and place a small "storage box" outside to house said generator in semi-permanently and leave the battery on a trickle charger. So when time comes to use it I'll need to hit the manual interlock go outside and connect the nat gas line or put gas in the tank, and start it.

Granted I live in a little slice of suburban hell where even in our 20+hr power outages our nat gas still flows and would be my primary fuel source. I'm not prepping for a TEOTWAWKI event, only service interruptions.

ETA whatever generator I get, I'm putting a motor snorkel tri fuel kit on it. Nat gas, propane, and gasoline for fuel sources provide the most flexibility for a relatively low price. I can store propane more easily than gas as the only gas equipment I own are my vehicles.  For the most part I'm not concerned about my warranty being voided.  The motor snorkel goes between the air filter and carb, there's virtually no way for them to tell what fuel source was used. I can non permanently mount the regulator to the frame.  Within 30min of work you'd have no clue that it was run on a different fuel source.  Gotta get s bigger generator though if you run on LPG or nat gas, that lowers the power output of the generator. I haven't found a perfect tool to estimate the difference but there is one and it's something you need to factor for. No free lunch and all that.

We did the transfer of food outside during a recent three-day outage. Took everything in our fridge and moved it to the garage where the temp was a constant 15 degrees. Curiously, none of the liquids froze. Everything remained fresh.

4500 and dual fuel for $52 more.

https://www.menards.com/main/black-friday-2022/wen-reg-3-500-running-4-000-starting-watt-open-frame-inverter-generator/gn400im/p-1642874263352160-c-13917.htm
These seem like a good deal if you have a Menards nearby. Not dual fuel.

My dad gave me his 1984 Coleman Powermate (11hp flathead Briggs) when I helped install an automated backup at his house.
It had been the only generator in the family for decades, and served us well.

That same year, I had a five day power outage in a December ice storm.
Was running it intermittently (house too cold? fill the generator and run the furnace until the generator runs out of gas) and it cost me $25-30 a day on $4/gallon gas. That got me looking for a more efficient generator, because $200/wk was too much for my budget. Back in the 1980s, power failures over a week were not unheard of, but in the last ten years I've had a 3 day, an overnight, and a handful of 1-4 hour failures, nothing that could pay for a generator in fuel savings.

First thing I bought was a 3650 Homelite (6.5hp OHV Subaru).
The Coleman would run a light load for 65 minutes on a two liter bottle of gas.
The Homelite would run the same light load for 110 minutes.
I should have stopped there, using the Homelite full time and firing up the Coleman if I ran out of hot water.

Bought and sold a few generators along the way, sold the Homelite when I finally found an 11hp Subaru in mint condition. That one runs about 80 minutes on 2 liters, but the geniuses at Subaru put a 20A breaker in it so the breaker blows 2 minutes after I turn on the water heater and I still need the Coleman when the power goes out for a couple of days and I need hot water.

That is a great deal, I have (2) Wen DF400i it’s basically the same generator dual fuel auto and pull start 4000 watts bought off Amazon at a smoking price and they have been fantastic

I've never heard of a hybrid inverter generator. Can you tell us more?

I did attempt to Google it and discovered 2 things. #1 Google doesn't know either. And #2 Champion has started making a reasonably priced 7000/8750 watt inverter generator since the last time I looked at their offerings. It is 120/240 V, 30A. For anyone needing a 240V generator I would be looking really hard at that.

I believe 'hybrid' = 'dual fuel'

Well dang...I was hoping "hybrid inverter" was some new technology that did something remarkable.

Dual-fuel, multi-fuel, tri-fuel are the common terms to describe a generator that can utilize multiple fuel types.

No.  Hybrids are just open-frame inverter generators.

Depending on your situation, efficiency  can be important or critical.   It’s not just about cost, it’s about fuel availability and  storage.

If you live in Florida and are expecting a hurricane to come through and want to power your essentials for a week or two with gas or diesel, I would anticipate that you need to have all of your fuel stored before hand.  If the power is out in your entire area, will you be able to obtain gas? What will the competition for that gas look like?

I live in a rural area where when a storm comes through I may lose power for several hours or a day. However, if I drive 30 miles into town, they almost never will lose power and I should be able to get fuel.  My fuel storage requirements are likely much lower than someone who is in a hurricane prone area.

How much fuel can you safely store on site?

If you’re running a generator that burns a gallon per hour, and you can only safely store 20 gallons in 5 gallon containers, you don’t have much runtime.

I picked up a used light tower off of craigslist a few years ago for $1500.  It uses a Kabota diesel that burns a half gallon per hour at full load and makes 6500 W. It also has a 50 gallon diesel tank.

6500 W is not a lot, but it’s plenty for what I need and I have a set up that will run for 100 hours with its own onboard diesel.  If I am at half load, I likely can get 150+ hours out of my 50 gallons.

Using natural gas obviously is another option. I don’t know what this looks like not having lived in a hurricane prone area. Is natural gas typically available without any interruptions What is the demand become a high enough that the supply is somewhat limited?

Propane is a good option if you can get a 250 gallon or 500 gallon tank on site. 100 gallon tanks are an option as well and are more portable.  The storage issues are less significant than they would be with gas or diesel that amount.

All this to say:

1) I don’t think there’s a one size fits all solution
2) efficiency is important on multiple different levels
3) having an idea of what your fuel source will be and how much needs to be stored is a fundamental question

A couple other concepts that I think are valuable:

Instead of just sizing a generator to what your current usage is, consider ways of decreasing the amount of power you need.

Any time you are generating heat or running air conditioning with a generator, you’re going to burn through a lot of fuel and need a lot of watts.  Both of these are inefficient processes.  

To produce heat, you are burning fuel to run an engine to spin a power head to produce electricity to run it through high resistance wires to generate heat.  You lose efficiency at each step of the process.  Why not just burn the fuel to produce heat and not have all that waste?

Having oil, natural gas or propane heat, water heater and appliances will significantly decrease your wattage requirements.

Instead of buying a generator that will power multiple space heaters, consider buying some indoor Mr Buddy heaters and some 20 lb propane tanks.

This video gives some numbers for the buddy heaters’ fuel consumption if you want to do calculations.  

It looks like each watt of an electric heater will produce about 3.4 btu.  A 1500 watt heater will put out just over 5100 btus.  Your 12000 watt generator is actually only 9000 running watts, so you are going to reach capacity fairly quickly.

Let’s say you max out your generator with six 1500 w heaters.  You will generate 36,000 btu per hour of heat.  This will cost you one gallon of fuel per hour of heat.

Two big buddy heaters will generate 36,000 btus.  This will cost you about 0.57 gallon of propane per hour according to this site..  Forty percent less fuel consumption.

Figure out a way to partition your living space so you only need to heat a couple of rooms.  We heat with a wood stove and hang a blanket in the entryway to the living room to keep it warmer during the winter.  

Consider a portable propane stove instead of an electric hot plate.  Most microwaves are going to be 1000 watts plus, and place a very high demand on a generator.

A fridge or freezer, on the other hand can be fairly efficient to run if you minimize opening it.

The 12K watt rating in the OP gen is misleading.
It's starting watts, not full load continuous, which is 9K.

Well, look at this...somebody actually makes a battery-electric hybrid generator.

A lot of the big points I would talk about have already been covered as it relates to heat sourcing etc.

I will say, big gensets have their place, but I would never  buy one for continuous operation for a multitude of reasons, one of which is cost of operation. My Predator 3500 has done multiple 48+ hour stints on one tank setup (which is the OEM tank and 7 gal external). Some of those were emergency use, some for 24 hour Enduro race weekends where it powered pitbox or trailer box all weekend. If you figure gas at $3 a gallon, that is just shy of $30 for two days worth of power. Give or take. That said, I can't run an AC. Can't run my well pump or water heater. If I had a big gensets, I could, but at what cost? I have a neighbor (neighbor is relative, he's 1/4 mile from me) who has a Generac whole house and he has a 500 gallon propane tank that he has drained multiple times running his house. At our current delivery rate of $2.99 a gallon, that is RICH for running a house.

All of the electrical supply shops I used to frequent before my current job sold whole house backups. All of the guys selling them have similar setups to mine. That should tell you something...

The name of the game for backup power is compromise. What do you absolutely need, what can you live without? For me, that was fridge/freezers, lights, air handler (backup heat is propane so basically running the ignitor/fan) and a couple outlets to charge stuff in a pinch. In an ideal world, I'd have a 240v setup that could run the well/water heater too, but I've never bought one. It is easy enough to heat some water and Navy shower it in a pinch.

This is how the North Koreans power a lot of their trucks. He uses it to run his generator.

No hybrid as in open frame inverters. Last I looked above a certain load % they're basically open frame traditional generators.

I have significant Hurricane experience.
Hurricane prone areas…

In a very broad, general sense.
Natural Gas and Propane are not always a great idea. Liquid fuel like diesel and Gasoline are at least 100/1 more abundant and available closer to the disaster area than NG or Propane.

You need to define the length of time "of need" ?

Neighborhood NG is absolutely going to be a no go after a cat 3. It only takes one old growth tree down that had roots wrapped around a supply line at any point between you and the main supply junction to cut supply. Now calculate the odds when 100 trees are down.
In ground infrastructure does not just get a quick section of pipe glued on. It takes days at each break to get it back and that’s after the debris is moved, break found, dug up and repairs pressure tested.

Propane can have some of the above issues if your 500gal tank has the supply line running under a tree or two in your yard. Obviously if the tank is right next to or close to the genset with no potential for line damage then you are gtg.
Next potential propane issue. You run out..you are likely not getting anymore anytime soon which brings us full circle back to..how many days can you run before needing more propane. IMO..you had better be able to run 10 days or you may very well find yourself with no options.
Much of the propane availability issue is going to be directly related to 2 things.
How much damage did the propane facility get and can their delivery trucks get to you for a refill ? When..?
In many cases we see propane facilities down for several days to a week while they not only safety check their infrastructure but do the same for the trucks. Then they need drivers..?
Depending on the unit size..I would have 2 100gal portable tanks on hand just in case.
IMO..Propane is fine with the understanding there are issues to consider.

Liquid fuels:
Extremely abundant. Nearly every major intersection. Only requires one or two people to run the station. Thousands of gallons most likely ready on demand. 6/5gal fuel cans can get most people 3-4 days easy.
You can do that yourself. You only need access to a station in operation. A friend can bring to you. Etc.


Large Outside standby Generator tip:
get the house as cold as possible before the storm. Shut down the gen. Do not run the generator while the hurricane rages. Wrap it up tight. Cover all enclosure openings. Unwrap it after the storm.
Wind over about 50 from the wrong direction blows moisture into the enclosure air vent and then it gets sucked up into the windings because the generator air flow moves in one direction across the unit when running. From one vent to the other.
Shorts the stator. Happened twice. Looked like it rained inside the enclosure.

Best wishes for those of you that find yourself living on generators for days or weeks.

I ran my house for a five day outage a year ago using a shitty 5000 watt generator a friend gave me that only took a $20 Amazon carburetor to get working.  I wired it up using a suicide cord to my dryer outlet (not a safety issue since two poles feeding my house were on the ground and I'd cut the downed overhead to clear it from the road.)

We ran for two hours in the morning and two hours in the evening to run the air-handler for the oil heat, well pump, refrigerators & freezers, electric water heater for showers (not all at once though.)  We use propane for the stove, so that was available all the time.

I did an oil change about three days in, probably used less than ten gallons of fuel.

Weakness (during winter at least) is that there wasn't any good way to run the electric dryer; going to fix that by adding a propane fired one.

Just got a 30A generator inlet socket hooked up so I can retire the suicide cord and use a breaker interlock.

My suggestion is to figure out a way of doing non-electric heat (my alternate, contingency sources are kerosene and propane), and experimenting with a smaller generator to run necessary loads, and not plan on keeping the lights on 24/7, unless you've got something like a sump pump you need to run (in which case you really failed when selecting your house.)

Hit Facebook for a crappy 5000-7000 watt generator for $100 or less and throw a carb at it.  My generator spares kit now has plugs, air filters and a couple of carbs, so that's probably a reasonable thing to expect to keep on hand.

Pick a convenient weekend to do a test run and turn your main breaker off.

I don't get it...what is "hybrid" about an open-frame inverter generator?

A web search for "what is a hybrid generator" yields numerous sources stating similar to the following.



That makes sense.

An open frame inverter generator doesn't satisfy the definition of hybrid which is why I'm confused.

Essentially all of the generators we're talking about that have the capability for NG or Propane are "dual fuel" types which can also run on Gasoline. If you run out of Propane and need to switch to Gasoline, then gas it up and switch, no big deal.


Ask Champion, they made the first one I think and called it "Digital Hybrid". So it's neither digital nor "hybrid" according to your definition, maybe just accept that it's nomenclature not an engineering specification.

"Digital Hybrid" sounds entirely different from a "hybrid inverter generator", namely it's a marketing term, not a descriptive term. It's undoubtedly trademarked by Champion, and can be used to describe their specific generators but it's not a descriptive term that can be applied to a generic type of generator. With that context it becomes evident that Champion hasn't done anything revolutionary or new except find a clever new marketing term to make their generators sound revolutionary.

This is straight from their website



So the "digital hybrid" is their way of saying they created an inverter generator. Inverters, by their very operating principles, are digital devices. Where the "hybrid" part comes in I can only speculate. Maybe a hybrid between a traditional enclosed inverter generator that is quiet and a traditional generator that is loud, yielding a slightly more quiet generator?


Either way, that is a term that will be attached to a specific brand of generator and can't really be used to describe a type of generator that one should consider purchasing.

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I think one of the biggest mistakes folks make in my opinion is not knowing how much power is actually needed ( or wanted. ) to be used under generator.

Installing an Energy monitor in their electrical panel eliminates that guesswork.   The one I linked monitors the incoming mains & 16 individual circuits.
It’s simply a matter of toggling breaker, unplugging equipment, etc to see how much power is being used at any given time.

Using a Kill a Watt is good  for determining a load for most any plug in 120 v appliance.

The great thing about using this stuff is you can also find energy hogs that when repaired/ replaced reduce your daily electrical usage which lower your electrical bill

Once you determine your loads and corresponding needs / wants generator shopping can begin. I’m guessing once that happens more items are shifted into the wants category.

I personally did this and found out my pool pump was sucking up a ton of power 24/7 so I put the pump on a schedule.

I am fortunate to be on nat gas. As part of my getting ready for being on a whole home generator I bumped up my efficiency on my hvac systems and made sure anything that produces heat was either gas or very high efficiency and gas clothes dryer, water heating and cooking.  

My point is burning any fuel in a generator turning it into electricity to then be turned in heat is full of losses and very inefficient.
Find a way of creating heat direct from the source if possible and / or practical.

Almost forgot. Spray foaming that attic also made a huge difference in heating and cooling power bill.

Take a deep look at what you want and see if there is a better way of achieving that goal.

Ok let me clear that up for you. It's "marketing terminology" not engineering terminology. No different than if you have 5G and think you really have true 5G service right now...because you don't. It's marketing.  

I'm looking at a 8750W generator from Champion. It's an open frame inverters they call a "digital hybrid". Which is a "hybrid" of a traditional open frame and a enclosed inverter.  

If we want to be more splitty of hairs, feeding my panel with 60HZ will also fool my grid tie panels into producing power if i get a meter transfer switch. Probably not going to bother at this house to do that. The expense isn't worth it.  Solar array only produces ~2KW of power. Not insignificant but not trustworthy enough to rely on.

One of the things that kept me from jumping on solar was the lack of power if the grid went down.

Only on grid tie.  Setup a battery bank and then ZFG.  You don't make shit selling power back to the grid anyways. It's a fraction of your per KWh rate.  For me it's about $10 a month.  I do a lot to save per month but the $10 isnt worth it for the cost outlay. Can still sell back with a battery backup, but honestly not worth it.

I’m also trying to decide on a back upon solution. I’d like to get a whole home generac but that’s going to cost easily $10k+ since I’d need a 20kw and new panel. A portable back up isn’t a bad option but I’d def want something that can run NG with gas as a backup but the closest thing iv found is a 13kw tri fuel that is only 9kw on NG

Sure, but unless you have sky high electricity rates, then a battery bank is a HARD sell.

I think w/ the older large inverters you can get daytime power off grid, but the two systems pitched to me all had small panel inverters that don't work w/o a grid tie.  With the competition for electric rates we have in Texas, it was a zero sum game, and in 20 years we'd have a solar system paid for that just went out of warranty.  You guys paying $.30/KWh, solar makes a lot more sense.