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Tacked FUEL CAN ORACLE (Page 1 of 32)
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Posted: 1/31/2011 1:45:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2014 9:02:35 PM EDT by FordGuy]
At the outset I'd like to say this is a joint effort between many people in the Survival Forum here on AR15.com - I posted it but I want to give credit where it is due, to many smart people who come here to talk about common interests, and thanks to Feral for blessing off on it. I hope newcomers get their questions answered here.

New Information as of May 23, 2014 - here is an excellent JLC review of several modern cans. Here.

First question (the one that comes up most often) Where do I get them?!!!Answer:
link

and get NATO Jerry cans here...." target="_blank">Get Scepter MFCs here. linkand get NATO Jerry cans here....</a> As for "Stock-Number" - I am not sure how they were able to sell to civies for the length of time they did, but as of February 4, 2011 it appears they have stopped. As you can see from additional posts below, there are other sources to get NATO cans and another type of container called "Blitz can" and these sources come and go, so take your pick. At this point, I am not aware of a source for legally obtained Scepter MFCs, and as a result used ones may hit $75.00 again, and therefore I have no problem recommending the Steel Nato "Jerry cans" as they are superior to MFCs in my opinion anyway.

Which are better, Scepter MFCs or steel Jerry cans?
Answer: they both work for the intended purpose. MFCs swell with gas and sometimes with diesel too in hot weather - but never rust. Some leak, some don't. The Viton seal on a gas is designed for gas: if you put gas in a diesel can it will eventually cause the seal to fail. The Steel Jerry cans don't swell up but some require a touch of paint here and there periodically. The main problem with older Jerry cans is they are lined with some form of layered material that can (and does) chip off. Once the liner material becomes unstable and begins to chip, the interior of the can can oxidize and contribute to rusting of the can. The water cans have a similar lining that has possibly changed in nature over the decades, but it is a food grade lining of unknown origin. There are also French wife cans out there that become available from time to time with this food grade liner that should be inspected prior to purchase. If you have more cans than you have floor space, Jerry cans and Blitz cans (discussed below) are actually stackable in a couple of different ways....MFCs are not. And if you lay them on their side and stack them, when they swell from petrol offgassing, they won't be stabile and may fall.

What about Blitz cans?
answer: Here is the Blitz website. The modern "Blitz can" is different than the traditional "Blitz style" can which had a flat face and a relatively large bung hole. "Bung" is the threaded opening in the can that receives the lid or nozzle. If you look about halfway down the page, you will see the red can that is labeled "obsolete - discontinued" this is what most people think of as a blitz can. I have some that are decades old. The rest of the cans displayed on Blitz' website are modern attempts to comply with CARB.

Why so damn expensive? Answer: Market demand over the last few years has driven the price up, plus CARB regs made them contra legem..... There was a mad rush a year or so ago that drove the price up even more.

Why do my new carb compliant cans leak more than MFCs ever did?
Answer: facepalm. we don't know. why come here and ask that? GD is thataway...

Why did the government do this?

Answer: By product of environmental regulation and law happy lawmakers. The old style cans were said to leak quite a bit when you attempted to pour them. There was some sloshing involved. The CARB complaint cans are known to leak/slosh just as much as the MFCs and now you are stuck with a crappy can. Government at it's finest.

How much does a gallon of gas weigh anyway?
6.073 pounds per US Gallon.
So doing the math, a typical 5 gallon container weights a tad over 30.36 pounds. Some folks are tempted to store fuel in larger containers, but consider that if you bump up to a 10 gallon HDPE container, you are dealing with 60.73 pounds. If you are injured, or if you are relying on your spouse to help move, you just limited the portability of your fuel.

Why not just get a water can and fill it with gas/diesel?the water cans are based on a pressure seal, there is no gasket. You will ruin the can for it's intended purpose and on top of that you will have a can that leaks if you move them around or put them in a warm enviroment which causes excessive pressure which water cans were not designed to withstand. The handles on water cans and fuel cans are different (one main handle on water, three on fuel) so that in in the dark you can tell if you are grabbing the correct can.

What is the difference between the gaskets?
answer: Cans designed for petrol have a substance called "Viton" that forms the seal. If you are rehabilitating an old MFC for gas/petrol, you need a Viton Gasket. A member here going by "Vatopa" is the gasket man and can probably get you what you need. "Pish posh" you say. "I'll just skip the Viton upgrade and use my regular MFCs for Petrol!!! I'll show them!" OK. but you are going to crack your flange and have to replace the flange portion of the lid AND buy the proper Viton gasket. So why not just buy Viton to begin with? Here's a case in point.

The MFCs that hold diesel have a form of rubber gasket. Obviously if you put petrol in a can with a rubber gasket, the petrol (or according to Vatopa the additives in the patrol) will begin to break the rubber down and degrade it, causing leaks. The water cans have a friction seal instead of a gasket. This means they are not generally suitable for anything but water for long term storage.

Other than that, if I insist on using water cans for gas, are water cans and MFCs made out of the same material?
yes.

Where would I get water cans?
Try LCI

Regarding water cans, some have "Scepter" on them and some have "LCI" - so are LCI cans and Scepter water cans the same?Answer: depends on who you ask...I have both and my Scepters don't leak, but I have 2 LCIs that do. They look different side by side. New production may look identical, but at some point they were different. For my money, buy Scepter if you can but in the end, both will probably do just fine. I will say the Scepter water cans are vastly more expensive, but if we are talking emergency drinking water, go with what you trust.

Found some old cans and bought them - now I see they have RUST inside...how do I fix this?
Answer: Quarterbore linked to a prior discussion on this, for convenience I will repost it here.

HELP! My MFC Lid is STUCK!
ANSWER: get a strap wrench.
Awesome technical data below....Thanks Coltrifle!

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 1:46:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 1:48:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2011 9:51:04 PM EDT by FordGuy]
What nozzle or nozzles work the best?
As a poster notes below, the Scepter cans are backwards compatible with donkey dicks. (not sure what else to call it, that is what my Drill Sgt called it way back when...). It helps if you say "Donkey Dicks" out loud as you read this post. Come on, just say it. DONKEY DICKS. Now that there is an eerie silence in the room, and people are staring at you, just tell them you are surfing a national geographic web site.
So they use their own spouts with threads on the outside surface, and use old spouts with their threads on the inside surface, as well as pressure reliant spouts that work like plugs in the mouth of the can. If you want to go with the company products, Scepter sells a plastic screw on nozzle in three forms - two for diesel and one for petrol.

The petrol nozzle is 3/4 inches in diameter. It is clear so you can see the fuel. These have had service issues and seem to fail at the junction of the nozzle and lid as the tube is simply glued in. When they work, they work amazingly well and will empty the 5 gallon can very quickly.

The two for Diesel are more basic sturdy construction and are black and corregated. I have them all and noticed the diesel spouts leak around the junction of the cap and the tube as it is not glued together.

If you happen to have an old fashioned metal spout called a "donkey dick" this is pretty versatile. The "donkey dick" nozzle works on both, as well as working on jerry cans. I use the donkey dick for my nozzle.

But when I can't find the donkey dick to be honest with you, I just pour straight from the Jerry can. I don't ever pour straight from a MFC or a Blitz can as I end up spilling way too much fuel. Wasteful and dangerous. The Jerry cans with the narrow neck and teh pressure lid pour like a charm for me, into a tractor, generator, or bulldozer, as well as my diesel truck. I spill very little with them. Like I said, with the Scepter cans, I must use a spout.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 2:02:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2011 2:59:23 PM EDT by FordGuy]
Can I just put fuel in the can and forget about it?If you do, you can normally expect to have fuel last about as long as it would last in your tank. Some blends last longer than others. It depends on so many variables, if you are "storing" fuel it just makes sense to spend a few more bucks on an additive like PRI or Stabil.

Fuel Storage
So when I get my fuel situation just perfect (good luck ) where do I store it?
Answer: storing large quantities of fuel bear legal duties/responsibilities as well as common sense requirements. Most types of fuel storage your average person would undertake must be ventilated. The "army approved" sites (whatever that means, lol) have had open windows and were behind two security levels. There was also a limit on how much fuel could be stored.

Space for most folks is very limited, and I've been surprised over the years how many people ask about storing bulk fuel in their homes or under their homes. This is very dangerous and must be discouraged. This may leave no place for fuel storage for some folks, but to allow storage near living quarters has dangers from ignition of fumes to inhalation risks. Residential storage aside, I think the best solution is a well ventilated, semi-isolated location from your home.

So again, fuel should not be stored in large quantities in your house, or even in your attached garage.

What about storing large tanks underground, or even using old propane tanks above ground?

Answer: First let's talk about underground storage. I believe this is universally regarded as a bad idea as most containers will eventually corrode, causing a large environmental problem that the federal government may want to ask questions about. Not sure it would rise to a "superfund" status but do you want to try your luck? I don't. Even the existing underground containers that are known have to have regular inspections, and many have been replaced with fiberglass or other type containers. If one insists on underground storage, I think you have to first build a container large enough to impound all the liquid in the event it leaks, then set your tank in the container. It may be possible to bury a septic tank, insert your fuel tank, then lower the lid and cover with dirt, but this seems to be a hell of a lot of work and risk.

Now let's talk about the second option - using a 250 gallon propane tank for an above ground storage application. Again, another option that is very risky but probably more desirable than trying to bury a tank.

One question that just came up is the option to use a 50 gallon drum s This is hardly a massive amount of fuel. Both cars in your garage should have this much at any given moment, but a car's fuel tanks are honed by decades of litigation to be fairly safe storage containers for petrol. If given the option to store fuel either in one large drum or several cans, I'd take the cans any day. You should have seen me trying to move the 55 gallon drum full of fuel around wiith my bare hands. I'm sure I was comical. .

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 2:06:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2011 12:58:51 PM EDT by FordGuy]
Fuel Additives
(courtesy of PA22-400)
Should I add Sta-Bil to the gas in my fuel cans? No, maybe and yes are all correct answers. You will need to understand water is not gas; water in gas will not allow your motor to run, and water in gas will stimulate corrosion in fuel systems. Sta-Bil is marketed to people that park a lawn mower or snow blower for a few months while the other power tool works. Fuel tanks are vented and "breath" air in and out with temperature and pressure changes. This air that gets into the tank of your mower has water vapor in the air. As temperature changes the water condenses out of the air and mixes with the gas in the tank. Now you have water building up in the tank of your lawn mower and helping to corrode the delicate passages of the carburetor.

On small engines that I was going to store I would run the engine out of gas. Then I would add a bit of B-12 Chemtool and run the engine out of that too. Then store. No Sta-Bil. No worries. Just gas and start next time I wanted that tool.
-So no you don't have to use Sta-Bil.

Remember that the gas tank is vented and "breaths." Also understand that gas has many chemical components. The components that evaporate easily mix with the air in the tank and are breathed out––remember that faint gas smell when you walk near your parked lawn mower. So as the off season wears on and more breathing happens to the tank, then more of your gas goes away too. The gas that stays gets gummy and won't work in the fine passages of the carburetor on you mower next season. Sta-Bil, Sea Foam, Pri-G all are supposed to help keep the gas form getting gummy.
-So yes you should use a stabilizer.

Now to talk about maybe: The major value of the fuel cans that are discussed in this oracle is that these cans do not vent or "breathe" if they are in good repair and have good seals. No breathing = no gum, and no water in your gas.
-So maybe you should add a stabilizer if you want to.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:19:17 PM EDT
Swiss Army Vehicles is another source for jerrycans and spouts.

http://www.pinzgauer.com/surplus.php
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:33:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2011 3:05:41 PM EDT by Quarterbore]
QUESTION: Can I use a MWC or LCI Water can as a fuel can?

Answer: While the plastic used to make the MFC and the water cans is the same, the gaskets and caps for the fuel cans are different then the water cans and it is doubtful that a water can would withstand the pressure build up if fuel was stored in them. In addition, the nozzle caps and other accessories for MFCs will not work with water cans. Note that the Fuel and Water cans are made differently to help prevent accidential water contamination, that is why no fuel accessories will fit water cans.

Jerry Cans:



Left: 2.5L Jerry Can (Originally used as oil can)
Middle: 10L Wedco Can with Wedco style Nozzle
Right: 20L Jerry Can

Wedco manufactured cans


Note - Red is intended for Gassoline, Yellow for Diesel, and Blue for Water but all three cans are made the same EXCEPT the water can has a food safe coating where the fuel cans have a solvent resistent coating!

Secpter MFCs



BLITZ style cans



Blitz style Can with Compression type nozzle fixture (these are the niceset nozzles IMHO for Blitz style cans). Note that Blitz style cans were a copy of the German Jerry can (as above) but the US Military wanted the cans to work with nozzles and attachments that they already had in inventory that work with the 55gal drum Bung Holes.

Nozzle Examples:

Note - Above this section is an example of a compression style Nozzle with the Blitz cans. Those are the nicest nozzles for use with Blitz cans and I will add a photo of the nozzle alone once I have a picture.



Aftermarket BLITZ style Nozzle - note this threads into the bung hole of the Blitz style can



Note the threaded BUNG style Nozzles do thread into the internal threads on Scepter MFCs!



Traditional Jerry Can Nozzle (this is a "modern" version - these tend to leak)



Wedco style Nozzle (Note the small top on end of nozzle is removable)

Gravity Feed Setups (Used to fuel Generators, some military vehicles, etc):
Note: With these you invert the gas can and gravity causes the fuel to flow.


Gravity Feed for Blitz style cans (will work with Scepters too)


Gravity Feed for Scepter MFC

Fuel Pickup Kit (Used for vehicles and generators)
Note: With these the engine sucks up the fuel so cans sit upright.






Anyways, there is a lot more that can be added (nozzles, fuel feed setups, syphons, how to repair a leaky can -> Motor Cycle Tank Repair kits, etc, etc). Once the following thread runs it's course, info from that thread should be summarized here too (how and where to store including legal and safety issues):

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=643474
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:01:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2012 11:49:06 PM EDT by PA22-400]
Why is the USGI "blitz" can different from the NATO can and the Sctpeter different from both? These cans were developed by the Germans prior to WW2 and a German secret before the war. The German can had a cam lock opening and was of welded construction. The secret got out and Brittan, US, and the Soviets copied the "jerrycan" or "gerry can" or "gerri can." The British can was an exact copy of the German can. The few pics of the Soviet can leave me with a few questions. The US copy had some modifications to make the can better for Americans. The USGI can has the bung hole opening that is the same as the 55 gallon drum, so all the fittings that worked with the drums could work with the cans too. The USGI can used rolled seams which allowed faster production; I have read that the us made as many as 21 million cans for WW2, and other reports where the US lost 2 million cans in 9 months of fighting following D-Day.

So what can is what? The German/British can are now called NATO cans. The USGI can is now called a blitz can. The Scepter MFC is now the standard US military fuel container.


Why do some nozzles fits several types of cans and some don't?
You have to have to understand that these fuel cans were built for the military. NATO has the US, Germany, and the British as members, so NATO wants a nozzle that will work with any can. The US made cans that were compatible with 55 gallon drums. One little secret; the Scepter has internal threads that match the bung hole of the bliz can and 55 gallon drum.

You can make your own accessories. This is a nozzle that will work with Scepter cans made from fittings bought at a farm supply store.

ETA I'm going to add the instructions for this nozzle from my post on page 2 to help folks out. I hope. There are more pics on page 2.

Originally Posted By PA22-400:

The big end is 2"NPT

2"NPT to 1.5"NPT bushing

2"NPT to 1.5"NPT bushing; 1.5"NPT to 1"NPT bushing; 1"NPT to 3/4" nipple; 3/4" tubing length to taste

Pay attention.
~The NPT labeled sizes of flexible tubing applies to the inside diameter of the hose; so 3/4" tubing is about the largest flexible hose that will be able to fit into the gas filler of an unleaded gas vehicle.
~The NPT labeled sizes of rigid tubing applies to the outside diameter of smaller tubing, and on the inside diameter of larger tubing.
Don't worry just mix and match until you get 3/4" flex threaded into 2" rigid

The beauty of the American system is 2"NPT is the thread type on the inside of the Scepter MFC, USGI steel and Blitz steel jerry cans, and industrial drums like the 15, 30 and 55 gallon drums





Most people find that a super siphon is the easiest way to fuel a vehicle though



Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:17:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:59:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 4:59:45 PM EDT by Cacinok]
Tag for future (and current ) info.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:28:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2011 8:08:57 PM EDT by Echo2]
I got this idea from Buck19Delta....











finished product....



we also use cans.....



and this one is for K1....



Along with this......our group has about 1.5K of diesel and another 500 gals in various farm tanks.

We also combined have about 60+ NATO cans....and quite a few Blitz plastic cans.

We are currently filling a few 55 gal drums with K1.....and are currently looking for a source on 55 gals of lamp oil.

We generally cycle every meeting.....and we use a lot of super siphons to move the fuel around.

We have 2 fuel sheds......separated by about 100 ft.....propane is also stored in these sheds.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:48:37 PM EDT
That someone is me... I dont see any pictures of my cans in this thread, so if you could be of any assistance, or point me to where i can get some help, it would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 7:39:05 AM EDT
I didn't see any mention of the different gasket materials, but I might've missed it.

You also might want to include gasoline stabilization since that frequently comes up as well.

Looking good so far
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 8:14:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 8:42:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2011 8:45:32 AM EDT by vatopa]
I can address the seal / gasket material question.

Gasoline and Diesel are both absolutley fine with standard buna nitrile / rubber seals.

Now that being said.

The additives in Gasoline will sometimes react with the Buna. So, Viton is highly recommended for use with Gasoline.

If you are storing Gasoline long term, and adding extenders of any type. You will want to get a viton seal.

Many of the extenders will swell up the Buna rubber seal and crack your cans.

The next question, How do I tell if I have a rubber or viton gasket?

Simple answer is, it is tough, when in doubt replace it. Just because it is red or blue or green really means nothing. Viton and buna come in a rainbow of colors.

Viton will be a denser heavier material then buna rubber, but unless you have samples of both, this will be meaningless.

As always, if you have specific question about any chemical compatibility, email me and I will get you an exact answer.

For those more technically inclined, Here is the link to Parker's compatibility charts. They are the most extensive you will find.

http://www.parker.com/literature/ORD%205700%20Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf

The chart starts on page 162.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 10:27:59 AM EDT
Excellent idea.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 11:28:34 AM EDT
Just FYI... QuarterBore.com images above = fail.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 11:34:58 AM EDT
Would you all be upset if I link to my thread on carb compliant cans that don't totally suck ?
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 11:45:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2011 9:03:42 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
THIS WAS REPOSTED ABOVE
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 11:56:35 AM EDT
kool. Just wanted to let you know.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 1:04:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2011 9:44:18 PM EDT by PA22-400]
Thanks for waiting FordGuy.

Should I add Sta-Bil to the gas in my fuel cans? No, maybe and yes are all correct answers. You will need to understand water is not gas; water in gas will not allow your motor to run, and water in gas will stimulate corrosion in fuel systems. Sta-Bil is marketed to people that park a lawn mower or snow blower for a few months while the other power tool works. Fuel tanks are vented and "breath" air in and out with temperature and pressure changes. This air that gets into the tank of your mower has water vapor in the air. As temperature changes the water condenses out of the air and mixes with the gas in the tank. Now you have water building up in the tank of your lawn mower and helping to corrode the delicate passages of the carburetor.

On small engines that I was going to store I would run the engine out of gas. Then I would add a bit of B-12 Chemtool and run the engine out of that too. Then store. No Sta-Bil. No worries. Just gas and start next time I wanted that tool.
-So no you don't have to use Sta-Bil.

Remember that the gas tank is vented and "breaths." Also understand that gas has many chemical components. The components that evaporate easily mix with the air in the tank and are breathed out––remember that faint gas smell when you walk near your parked lawn mower. So as the off season wears on and more breathing happens to the tank, then more of your gas goes away too. The gas that stays gets gummy and won't work in the fine passages of the carburetor on you mower next season. Sta-Bil, Sea Foam, Pri-G all are supposed to help keep the gas form getting gummy.
-So yes you should use a stabilizer.

Now to talk about maybe: The major value of the fuel cans that are discussed in this oracle is that these cans do not vent or "breathe" if they are in good repair and have good seals. No breathing = no gum, and no water in your gas.
-So maybe you should add a stabilizer if you want to.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 1:12:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Would you all be upset if I link to my thread on carb compliant cans that don't totally suck ?


please do ––- link to anything that would make this more helpful for someone...

Link Posted: 2/2/2011 2:12:56 PM EDT
I'm not sure if you mentioned it but WWII US cans/Blitz can designed so that they can stack atop one another -thus they have the recessed bottom.

The pic of the orange Scepter with the metal donkey dick threaded into it is one I took a few years ago to illustrate how they were backwards compatible with all the old threaded US can goodies(tent heaters etc), to me that is a big advantage of the Scepter type vs the NATO cans. Recently though I did find some tops for NATO cans that allow them to be used as fuel tanks. They pop up on ebay.co.uk once in a while if anyone needs them.
Link Posted: 2/2/2011 3:03:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MPi-KMS-72:
I'm not sure if you mentioned it but WWII US cans/Blitz can designed so that they can stack atop one another -thus they have the recessed bottom.

The pic of the orange Scepter with the metal donkey dick threaded into it is one I took a few years ago to illustrate how they were backwards compatible with all the old threaded US can goodies(tent heaters etc), to me that is a big advantage of the Scepter type vs the NATO cans. Recently though I did find some tops for NATO cans that allow them to be used as fuel tanks. They pop up on ebay.co.uk once in a while if anyone needs them.

I hope you don't mind I have your pic, I can replace it with a pic of one of my cans if you would like. I also added a couple pics of the fuel pickup kits from the auctions to my sever and added them to my post above too. Thanks for pointing out that they were there as they are not something that is easy to find sometimes.
Link Posted: 2/2/2011 7:23:38 PM EDT
Sure you can use the pic. I have no problem with you using it, that is why I took it in the first place. I thought it was neat to see it here, I think I posted it to a thread on another forum >3 years ago. Sometimes pics have a life of their own after you relase them into the wild on the net...
Link Posted: 2/2/2011 10:29:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2011 11:28:48 PM EDT by PA22-400]


Here is a summary of a very good thread from the archives on fuel storage.
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=627380&page=1

Originally Posted By Kimber_45:

I was asked to post this, hoping I could give some info that may help someone. So here it goes, I work for a major oil company(Techron is our additive) and my job is to do all the octane testing on motor gasoline and aviation gasoline. I store gas at my home for emergencies and here are a few things to look for before storing gas.

1. Storing gas with 10% ETOH added will not store near as well as non-ETOH blended gas. Our refinery supplies alot of gasoline to Florida, NE Alabama, Georgia, and up the east coast. The bulk of gas that goes to these areas is Sub-Grade octane gasoline. That means that it is made to an 84 octane and when it gets to the terminal, they blend it with 10% ETOH to raise the octane to 87( 91.5 base to get 93 with ETOH for premium). 10% Etoh gas will only store reliably for about 3 months, while our 87 octane with no Etoh is rated to store for 2 years without stabil or any other additive. We add an antioxident to the gasoline so it will not break down while in storage somewhere after it leaves the refinery. Not trying to ecourage it, but you can smell the ETOH in gas if you want to make sure you dont buy it for storage. The gas will have a sweet smell if it has ETOH in it.

2. You must be careful when adding large amounts of fuel stabilizers because they can lower the octane of your fuel. If your BOV is sensitive to the grade of fuel you use, either use a minimal amount or rotate your fuel more often.

3. Gasoline blended between Oct to April or so will have as much as 10-15% Butane added to it to help you car start in cold weather. If you bought your storage gas in this time, come summer when you need it, your car may have a rougher time starting since the Butane will have evaporated out depending on what type of storage container you are using.

4. Premium will store a little better than regular. The components used to make 93 octane are more stable and dont need as much antioxident in them. Refineries tend to throw alot of products in regular just to get rid of them since that cant be made into anything else. You wont see this in premium.

Hope this helps. If I can help with any questions, i'll do my best to help. Thanks!


Originally Posted By magsig:
Great post.
I have 10 gallons of gas I've had stored for a year (since Hurricane Ike) and I was wondering if it was safe to put in my truck. I put it up with a double dose of Sta-Bil last year...do you think it's safe to use now?

Thanks


It should be GTG.


Originally Posted By Chezplex:
Kimber, Is it best to store winter or summer blends? I know you said the winter has butane and it evaporates. Which is the best to store?
Thanks


Summer is better, but depending on the winter temps in your AO, you may have a hard time starting your car. We could actually just blend summer grade 11 months out of the year here.


Originally Posted By oldmanT:
How about sealed drums from the manufacturer (metal drums)? I buy VP racing fuel as my car loves it and I try to mix it with the crap pump gas we get here in the winter. I have been thinking of buyint 10 gallons to store away in the garage.


We store some of our gas we use for calibration fuels in 55 gal drums. We keep it for 2 years then per our standards, we have to chunk it. But it is still usable.


Originally Posted By Duodec:
Any info on region specific blends? I live close enough to chicago to be in its 'attainment area'. My former truck (1990 Dodge, 5.9l gas engine) would drop from 11-12 MPG to 6-7 MPG when they switched to winter blend here (and jumped back up most of the way when i could fill up outside the area). I know we were getting some mandated special blend above and beyond 'winter' formulation.

I can't help but wonder what the EPA winter gift to internal combustion engines would do for a generator engine.


Blends are regional specific. Up north winter blends will have about 15% butane. Not sure when they start transitioning. We are starting to switch to transition grade now then come nov or so we will start making winter gas.


Originally Posted By HomeSlice:
Dumb question, but ETOH=Ethanol?

We have a 150 gallon tank at the house that the co-op fills for us about every month. No stabilizer added because we use quite a bit of it. We had probs w/ the 87 octane as it sucked too much water in from the humid summer air here. Since moving to "mid-grade" (90-oct, driver says no ethanol in it) we've never had a problem.

-Slice


ETOH is ethanol. MEOH is methanol


Originally Posted By Gerri:
So, I'm still a little confused. When is Ethanol typically added, or is it added all year 'round? Will the Butane from winter gas leak out of the old style (Wedco style) metal cans? I'm still trying to figure out if I need to find a marina, and do I need to track it down in the winter or in the summer?

Thanks


Depending on where you live, ETOH is added year round. If the military cans are airtight with an o-ring, no butane should evaporate. Just shake the can before you use it.

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
I wish it were possible to come up with a filter or mechanism to remove Ethanol from the gas without impacting the fuel itself. What a PITA that they force this on all of us when there are good reasons that we need fuel without it such as generators, boats, and other small engines.

you can, just pour water in the gas. The ETOH will become saturated with water and fall to the bottom. You will have 2 layers with the gas being on top. THe only problem is once you do this, your fuel will no longer be a 87/93 octane. It will be 84/91.5ish. This is used as a quick field test.


Originally Posted By CancerLad:
If it is not proprietary information, does the industry do any blending with propanol or butanol as an oxygenate like MTBE or ETBE?


Not that I know of. I dont think that those can be made in great enough quantities to be used as a blend stock. Propane is way too light, Butane isnt pure, it has some butelien(sp?) butene, and other C4 butnae like compounds. MTBE is not used because it seeks water and contamintes the water supply. I THINK that once it gets in the water, then you're screwed.


Originally Posted By P400:
Originally Posted By Kimber_45:

We store some of our gas we use for calibration fuels in 55 gal drums. .



What is the proper way to store fuel in 55 gal drums? Sealed? Vented? I've thought about doing this but was never sure what the right way to do it was.


all of ours are sealed. if you do this, be sure to fill the drum ALL the way so you wont get any vapor space in the top which could cause the drum to bulge.

Originally Posted By cutlass1972:
Hey Kimber_45 I stopped and filled up my car today and noticed that there where no signs stating that their gasoline contained ethanol. I was curious so I went in and asked the owner if his gas contained ethanol and he told me that about a year ago "they" made it illegal to sell gasoline without ethanol and all gas stations gasoline now contains ethanol. I believe this is BS, what do you say?


It is law in many areas. They add the ETOH to suposedly help with air quality, but everyone knows how that goes.

Originally Posted By Jtrout141:

Originally Posted By Kimber_45:

Originally Posted By P400:

Originally Posted By Kimber_45:

We store some of our gas we use for calibration fuels in 55 gal drums. .


What is the proper way to store fuel in 55 gal drums? Sealed? Vented? I've thought about doing this but was never sure what the right way to do it was.


all of ours are sealed. if you do this, be sure to fill the drum ALL the way so you wont get any vapor space in the top which could cause the drum to bulge.


So would this hold true for nato 20L cans? Fill all the way up or leave space for expansion.


Fill up all the way. If you dont have any room for vapors to accumulate, it cant buldge, very much anyway. Way less than if you filled it 80-90%.

Link Posted: 2/3/2011 11:04:19 AM EDT
I just picked up 4 of the jerry cans at Deutsche Optik and I have a question?

I plan on storing these in the garage and it can heat up in the summer. It doesn't look like these cans have a vent on them, is this something I should be concerned with? Anything I should do?

Thanks
Link Posted: 2/3/2011 12:13:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2011 2:08:38 PM EDT by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By GhostFly:
I just picked up 4 of the jerry cans at Deutsche Optik and I have a question?

I plan on storing these in the garage and it can heat up in the summer. It doesn't look like these cans have a vent on them, is this something I should be concerned with? Anything I should do?

Thanks

Nope, in the winter you will have a slight vacume. In the summer they will bulge a little is vapor pressure builds up. You will have less of an issue on both counts if you keep the cans as full as possible (not so full that they will spill when you open but not half full too!).

The metal Jerry cans do not show the effects like scepter cans do but you can certainly tell.
Link Posted: 2/3/2011 1:51:32 PM EDT
Great thread, Fordguy and others! Thank you for taking the time-this was long overdue I think
Link Posted: 2/3/2011 3:53:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2011 10:14:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
Great thread, Fordguy and others! Thank you for taking the time-this was long overdue I think


I think we also thank Feral for approving it, he could have easily said "no thanks." So thank you Feral.
Link Posted: 2/4/2011 5:43:02 AM EDT
Damnit!!!! Tech Supply (stock-number.com) is now out of the MFC's per the email they returned to me this morning.

I requested a quote on a pallet of them and received this reply:

"Variable556",

We are out of the pre 2009 cans. They are no longer available.



Thanks

Anthony


That sucks!!!!! Oh well, at least I got enough for my personal use for now.
Link Posted: 2/4/2011 8:13:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2011 8:18:20 AM EDT by FordGuy]
Originally Posted By Variable556:
Damnit!!!! Tech Supply (stock-number.com) is now out of the MFC's per the email they returned to me this morning.

I requested a quote on a pallet of them and received this reply:

"Variable556",

We are out of the pre 2009 cans. They are no longer available.



Thanks

Anthony


That sucks!!!!! Oh well, at least I got enough for my personal use for now.



I know for a fact they are not "out." They probably just realized their gig was up, or more likely got their hand slapped by someone enforcing regulations.

It appears they were skirting the rules by selling to folks they were not supposed to. We may be entering the realm of 75 dollar MFCs again, which makes NATO cans all the more attractive.
Link Posted: 2/4/2011 11:25:45 AM EDT
Just have to say this is a great thread. Very informative. I looked on the 'net for viton gaskets and couldn't find any. My thought is to add these seals to the DO Nato cans I have. I'm not sure if they already have them so I look at it as better safe than sorry. If anyone knows if they come with viton, and/or where to buy, it would be much appreciated.
Link Posted: 2/4/2011 12:06:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LoveAColt:
Just have to say this is a great thread. Very informative. I looked on the 'net for viton gaskets and couldn't find any. My thought is to add these seals to the DO Nato cans I have. I'm not sure if they already have them so I look at it as better safe than sorry. If anyone knows if they come with viton, and/or where to buy, it would be much appreciated.

Vitron gaskets are needed with teh Sceptor style cans because of the large size of the Scepter gaskets. What happens to the rubber gaskets in Scepter cans (that is the correct gasket for Diesel) is gassoline and possibly gassoline vapors get adsorbed by the rubber and they swell. they sell a LOT and what happens is with the cap screwed on the swelling causes the cap to split.

With the DO, or Jerry Can style gaskets, you do not have the same massive size of the gasket material so they really do not seem to be affected the same as Scepter gaskets. Even then, if they did swell, the spring loaded closure would allow the cap to rise so no real dammage to the steel cans.

Anyways, this is based on my experience and I was curious about the Scepter gaskets and I had a rubber gasket on for just a few weeks with gassoline and it was extremely obvious that the gasket was swelling! I have never seen an issue with my DO, Wedco, or other Jerry cans.
Link Posted: 2/4/2011 12:51:49 PM EDT
Thanks to all who spent time writing and getting pics for this.

I know it will solve a lot of repeat questions and in this instance some of the pics are worth a thousand words when you get into the lids that adapt stuff for genny use.
Link Posted: 2/4/2011 6:08:13 PM EDT
Thanks for putting all the work in for this thread! Ordered the 4 can pack you had a link to, cant wait to get them!
Also picked up 3 used nato cans from a local surplus store so the info that's listed for cleaning will be put to use.

Thanks again!
Link Posted: 2/4/2011 7:28:32 PM EDT
Place holder for pictures of NATO can generator adapter and stand along with NATO can blueprint
Link Posted: 2/5/2011 2:17:32 PM EDT
Any suggestions on cleaning the outside of the can? The inside of the ones I bought at a surplus store are in excellent shape. The outsides however have rust in some areas.....
Link Posted: 2/5/2011 4:45:51 PM EDT
ghost, sanpaper the large flakes off, rustoleum rust restorer, then the rust preventative color of your choice.
Link Posted: 2/6/2011 7:15:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2011 8:20:36 AM EDT by walt_l]
I've ordered some surplus NATO cans and wondered if there is anything I should to to the inside before I fill them. I know being surplus there is no telling what might have been in there. Are they gtg or should I give them a quick rinse before filling them?

ETA: I asked the smartest mechanic I know and this is what he suggested

It depends on how dirty the insides are as to how much cleaning you will have to do. Cleaning the insides with gasoline will not clean anything since gasoline will not cut gasoline residue. Diesel fuel will do a much better job and will be less hazardous. If there is no residue the best would be a little Tide Liquid and water and a vigorous shaking. Don't use dishwashing liquid because it will make too many suds. Be sure to let it dry real well and add some stabilizer and "Sea Foam". Be sure to store the cans full so no condensation forms inside the can in the empty areas.
If the can is rusty inside ,Tide, water and some pea gravel, and a shitload of shaking will "Sandblast" the inside clean. Repeat until clean. This works really well but can be labor intensive.
After they are clean and before filling with the good gas, rinse it with the throw away gas to get rid of any cleaning residues.

1. Diesel fuel
2.Tide and water
3. Through drying
4 Gasoline rinse
4.Fill to top with gas,Stabilizer and "Sea Foam".
Link Posted: 2/6/2011 7:51:22 PM EDT
Tag


Link Posted: 2/7/2011 8:51:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By walt_l:
I've ordered some surplus NATO cans and wondered if there is anything I should to to the inside before I fill them. I know being surplus there is no telling what might have been in there. Are they gtg or should I give them a quick rinse before filling them?

WHat I did with mine, and min had diesel in them, was to first make sure I drained as much out of the cans as I could. I then put a gallon or so gas in the can and sloshed it around to remove any dirt. Then I put a piece of cloth over the nozzle to get and junk that came put of the can and poured the gassoline into the next can. I got quite a bit of junk out of my used Scepters.

The has I used to rinse the cans I then diluted with good gas and added it to the truck and filled the tank and just burnt it up that way. There would have been very little diesel left at that point so no harm to the truck. The bigger issue is you just never know what could have got in the tank with the fuel they were holding. One of mine had what looked like small sticks in the can when I rinsed it
Link Posted: 2/7/2011 9:31:34 AM EDT
To inspect the inside of an empty jerrycan, take an LED task light and tie it to a string. You can then lower it into the can to illuminate the inside and see what condition it's in, and if it's got a bunch of debris or rust inside.
Link Posted: 2/9/2011 3:06:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2011 3:22:32 AM EDT by Justin-Kase]
Excellent thread!

Thought I'd take a few minutes and review a can I recently tried out.

I purchased this No-Spill brand can the other day after cussing out the CARB can crap I was using/spilling all over the riding mower.
http://www.nospill.com/index.php


Ordered it in the 5 gallon diesel version because I needed a diesel can more than another gas can at the moment.

I have used it once to top off the tractor and so far it does work magnitudes of order better than these:


But it's not perfect.
Had a minor leak from the mouth/threads, not sure if I didn't have it screwed down tight enough or if the gasket was out of place but it was still far less drippage than the CARB crap can under perfect conditions.

I will state that the auto shutoff valve was 100% effective, when the fuel in the tank reaches the nozzle the flow stops immediately.

The youtube video from the company is a bit goofy but it other than the few drops that leaked from the can threads it worked as good as the video, slow but it worked.






Overall I'm not sure I can give it a hearty recommendation because of the price and slow flow. I am going to get another one for riding mower gas and one for the weed eater mixed gas because I like the auto shutoff ability and both my mower and trimmer are difficult to fill without overflowing.

I did get the extended flexible spout and do recommend it if you do not have a clear access to the tank of whatever you are filling. I won't order another for the gas cans but it was handy for the tractor.
http://www.nospill.com/flexspout.htm


If it were the same price as the CARB crap I would give it a higher rating. I feel it is good, just overpriced and slow. I also do not like that there is no way to lock the valve open so that you do not have sit there with your thumb pressing down the entire time.

Link Posted: 2/9/2011 9:31:34 AM EDT
That girl in the No-Spill infomertal was easy to look at too

I honestly think I will get one as I want it for the weed wacker, hedge trimmer, and chainsaw.

Another non-banned can (and I am not sure why these are still for sale) is the various safety cans. They work a lot like the Jerry can, they do not leak, and while they are expensive they are not as expensive as New Jerry cans have become. I have the 5-gal can like the pic below and it is currently my favorite can for filling small gas tanks (generator, chainsaw, weed wacker, etc).



I really question how long these safety cans will still be around so I thought about buying one of the smaller ones to go with my 5-gal can. These are every bit as good as a Jerry Can and the funnel makes them very spill resistent. The spring loaded cap closes the can with the funnel in place or the funnel can be removed for filling, etc.

Anyways, I like the looks of the can posted above (and I really like the lOOks of the girl ). Just sharing another outstanding can we can still get in Carb restricted areas, or at least I can still get these safety cans here in Pennsylvania!
Link Posted: 2/10/2011 8:13:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2011 1:19:29 PM EDT by Merlin]
Link Posted: 2/10/2011 4:21:50 PM EDT
Oh that

Posted on the first page of this thread



Better photo



The big end is 2"NPT


2"NPT to 1.5"NPT bushing


2"NPT to 1.5"NPT bushing; 1.5"NPT to 1"NPT bushing; 1"NPT to 3/4" nipple; 3/4" tubing length to taste



Pay attention.
~The NPT labeled sizes of flexible tubing applies to the inside diameter of the hose; so 3/4" tubing is about the largest flexible hose that will be able to fit into the gas filler of an unleaded gas vehicle.
~The NPT labeled sizes of rigid tubing applies to the outside diameter of smaller tubing, and on the inside diameter of larger tubing.
Don't worry just mix and match until you get 3/4" flex threaded into 2" rigid

The beauty of the American system is 2"NPT is the thread type on the inside of the Scepter MFC, USGI steel and Blitz steel jerry cans, and industrial drums like the 15, 30 and 55 gallon drums

Link Posted: 2/10/2011 9:54:04 PM EDT
Received my 4 pack of new cans today. Very nice, the green color is a little darker. They are sweet!
Link Posted: 2/11/2011 1:31:47 PM EDT
Ok, so I've gone kinda nuts. I ordered 8 from Colemans, 10 from schotsmanequipment on ebay though it was a direct sale and I found out my GF ordered a 4 pack from DO but I don't get those until Monday.

So the first to arrive were the ones from Colemans. After freight I paind nearly $60 each!! The ones from schotsmanequipment were $39 each, freight included.

Both orders have arrived and here's how they look



On left is schotsmanequipment on the right is Colemans
schotsmanequipment seem to be brand new

Now with better lighting



The spouts are different but I have been assured they ARE fuel cans



So Far My money is on schotsmanequipment.

If you are interested in contacting directly, drom me PM and I'll get you name and email address.
Link Posted: 2/11/2011 1:37:38 PM EDT
In the pic above, the one on the right is a Jerry can that will use the standard nozzles. The can on the left with the large opening you will have to use with a siphon as there are no spigots or spouts that fit that can. Still, works fine, just different and I would look for gaskets for that bigger opening can as I am not sure how easy they are to get now much less in the future.
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