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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:32:05 AM EDT
I went to an outdoor range today with my parents and one of my mom's friends. My mom's friend brought her boyfriend and her sister along. He boyfriend was a really nice guy, retired cop and now he works as a cop in a university here in FL. He brought a few guns including a Kahr 9mm. I'm not sure if it's a PM9 or P9. It's a polymer frame 9mm with a blackened slide. He had a bunch of rounds of 9mm his old agency gave him for training. I'm not sure if they are reloads or not, I think they are. Anyway, my mom and her friend shot the hell out of it and really didn't have any problems controlling it. I was talking to my new friend about his gun and he started loading up a mag for me to try it out. I took the gun, aimed, pulled the trigger and it went boom. My face really stung (I was wearing sunglasses) and the recoil felt a tad ... harsh to my hand. So I stopped to look at the gun and realized I had a KB. I calmly placed the pistol down and walked off, shaking my hand. It didn't really sting until after I realized what happened. The round was stuck in the chamber and someone produced a cleaning rod to tap it out. The bottom of the brass is completely ruptured and oddly bulged. I forgot to take pictures on my phone before they left so I only have some pictures they sent me from her iPhone.
It was a very ... strange experience. There wasn't an obstructed bore because the slide locked back when my mom emptied the magazine, and the barrel is not bulged. The magazine was blown out, but is fine. The mag catch still works, the slide cycles. There is just a bit of a hole in the frame. Thankfully the front didn't fall off leading me to believe it was, in fact, built to rigorous maritime standards. He is going to ship it off to Kahr with the blown casing, and a handful of the unfired rounds to see what they say.      |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:33:22 AM EDT
[#1]
Kahr...nuff said.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:35:01 AM EDT
[#2]
Does the Rev. Moon still have an interest in the company?
Aloha, Mark |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:37:08 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Kahr...nuff said. It seems to me this was an ammunition problem which is not exactly the firearm manufacturer's fault. ETA - Unless, like Ponyboy said, it was out of battery. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:37:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Yikes.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:37:38 AM EDT
[#5]
Out of battery
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:38:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Out of battery Yep. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:38:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Hopefully the gun isn't fucked over and it's good you didn't get hurt.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:39:07 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Out of battery Seems a good call |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:39:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Hopefully the gun isn't fucked over and it's good you didn't get hurt. There's something wrong with it to allow that to happen in the first place. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:42:26 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Out of battery Sounds right. Good thing it's being towed outside the environment.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:46:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Thank GOD it was built to rigorous maritime standards. You might be without a couple fingers if not.
Were you in the environment? |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:49:23 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Thank GOD it was built to rigorous maritime standards. You might be without a couple fingers if not. Were you in the environment? No, it was taken outside of the environment. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:49:42 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thank GOD it was built to rigorous maritime standards. You might be without a couple fingers if not. Were you in the environment? No, it was taken outside of the environment. Into another environment? |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:51:58 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thank GOD it was built to rigorous maritime standards. You might be without a couple fingers if not. Were you in the environment? No, it was taken outside of the environment. Into another environment? No, there is no environment. It was taken outside of its environment. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:51:59 AM EDT
[#15]
they should have put the blow out panel on the other side.
Now I have two reasons for not buying one. The tranny model and the southpaw BOP |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:53:48 AM EDT
[#16]
damn i guess its not just glocks.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:55:40 AM EDT
[#17]
Case failure likely in the area of the feed ramp. I've read that federal american eagle brass is a little thin for reloading. That brass may have just been reloaded too many times then combined with an unsupported chanber allowed a case failure.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:12:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thank GOD it was built to rigorous maritime standards. You might be without a couple fingers if not. Were you in the environment? No, it was taken outside of the environment. Into another environment? No, there is no environment. It was taken outside of its environment. sooo , did the front fall off |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:14:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
they should have put the blow out panel on the other side. Now I have two reasons for not buying one. The tranny model and the southpaw BOP Wait, what? |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:16:53 PM EDT
[#20]
If you notice where the pinstrike is on the primer it seems quite a bit off center. Kindof like this guys eyes––––- 
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:17:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Dang, glad you didn't get hurt.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:19:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: M G24 did that but i didn't even notice till the end of the match stage and picked up my brassdamn i guess its not just glocks. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:26:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Years ago I had a Llama large frame do exact that to me. It was fully in battery at the time. The case head failed due to high pressure (reloaded ammo, and in the words of my friend who loaded it, "It might have been a tad hot
 "). I'm guessing case head failure, not pistol/OOB failure, especially if it was reloaded once before.Not brought up yet, but this is EXACTLY why we stress eye protection when shooting. I looked like I had the chicken pox for a week after my Kb––the pistol peppered my face with burning powder and bits of motlen brass. Glad fingers and eyes are all intact. Hope Kahr ponies up for the pistol repair. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:35:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Out of battery or unsupported chamber. Either way the shell was detonated without the full case supported. Prolly vented straight out the mag well and took the mag with it.
Glad you're not hurt. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:42:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Out of battery would be my guess...
Had it happen in a semi auto uzi once. Gun was fine as it is built like a tank... |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:55:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Out of battery or unsupported chamber. Either way the shell was detonated without the full case supported. Prolly vented straight out the mag well and took the mag with it. Glad you're not hurt. This. Your hand still okay, no residual suckage? |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:01:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Design feature of the Kahrs..... that panel is designed to blow out in a "managed" way to keep from completely destroying the frame. I have seen pics of it happening before to someone else.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:10:33 PM EDT
[#28]
about 99 percent of KBs involve reloads
out of battery would be easy to check, just pull the slide back a little and try to fire it (on an empty chamber) retire that brass after 5 loads if reloading for a rifle or autoloader revolver, reload until wall splits occur, then dump the whole batch looks like a classic feed ramp blowout, could be an overcharged case, bad brass, or excessively relieved ramp like the glocks. regarding glocks: any gun that routinely bulges brass has a major design flaw. sorry about that, your heroic boner idol gun has a design flaw |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:20:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Was Donny with you?
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:24:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
regarding glocks: any gun that routinely bulges brass has a major design flaw. sorry about that, your heroic boner idol gun has a design flaw Yeah but it still goes bang every time, one way or another.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:35:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Design feature of the Kahrs..... that panel is designed to blow out in a "managed" way to keep from completely destroying the frame. I have seen pics of it happening before to someone else. Damn you would think they would make it to blow out the finger tips instead of the meat of your hand that would blow the whole finger off . |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:37:33 PM EDT
[#32]
oob
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:37:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Youre lucky its wasnt a 45 or your arm would have been blown clear right off!
Out of battery detonation. I bet the chamber got real dirty because like you said it was shot the hell out of that day. The dirt and debris kept the round from fully seating and when you pulled the trigger it fired with the butt end not supported. Glad you were not hurt. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:42:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Kahr...nuff said. It seems to me this was an ammunition problem which is not exactly the firearm manufacturer's fault. ETA - Unless, like Ponyboy said, it was out of battery. i agree. no real signs of over pressure on that primer. looks like a case failure or OOB. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:42:43 PM EDT
[#35]
You mean this doesn't just happen to the Glock forty's
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:44:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Glad you didn't suffer any serious injuries.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:45:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Kahr...nuff said. It seems to me this was an ammunition problem which is not exactly the firearm manufacturer's fault. ETA - Unless, like Ponyboy said, it was out of battery. i agree. no real signs of over pressure on that primer. looks like a case failure or OOB. The base of the case blown out in conjunction with the off center primer hit (unless that's normal for a Kahr) is what I'm basing my guess on. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:45:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Looks like the gun held together....
Kahr > glock |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:46:00 PM EDT
[#39]
If it was a Glock your hand would be gone. Glad you're okay....
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Posted: 1/24/2010 2:27:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Glad you're OK-damn there's a lot of KBs lately. In the last year on arfcom I've read about these
ALS .50 BMG upper Bohica .50 BMG upper A 91/30 Mosin on the C&R forum This handgun A S&W revolver that blew the cylinder crane out Taurus judges blowing barrels off(not here, saw those on another board) A couple Glocks having case failures and blowing the mag catch out |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 3:15:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Does the bulge go all the way around the case? Is there any way you could get some close up pictures?
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Posted: 1/24/2010 3:19:49 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I went to an outdoor range today with my parents and one of my mom's friends. My mom's friend brought her boyfriend and her sister along. He boyfriend was a really nice guy, retired cop and now he works as a cop in a university here in FL. He brought a few guns including a Kahr 9mm. I'm not sure if it's a PM9 or P9. It's a polymer frame 9mm with a blackened slide. He had a bunch of rounds of 9mm his old agency gave him for training. I'm not sure if they are reloads or not, I think they are. Anyway, my mom and her friend shot the hell out of it and really didn't have any problems controlling it. I was talking to my new friend about his gun and he started loading up a mag for me to try it out. I took the gun, aimed, pulled the trigger and it went boom. My face really stung (I was wearing sunglasses) and the recoil felt a tad ... harsh to my hand. So I stopped to look at the gun and realized I had a KB. I calmly placed the pistol down and walked off, shaking my hand. It didn't really sting until after I realized what happened. The round was stuck in the chamber and someone produced a cleaning rod to tap it out. The bottom of the brass is completely ruptured and oddly bulged. I forgot to take pictures on my phone before they left so I only have some pictures they sent me from her iPhone. It was a very ... strange experience. There wasn't an obstructed bore because the slide locked back when my mom emptied the magazine, and the barrel is not bulged. The magazine was blown out, but is fine. The mag catch still works, the slide cycles. There is just a bit of a hole in the frame. Thankfully the front didn't fall off leading me to believe it was, in fact, built to rigorous maritime standards. He is going to ship it off to Kahr with the blown casing, and a handful of the unfired rounds to see what they say. http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad264/45fmjoe/KB/brass.jpg http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad264/45fmjoe/KB/brass2.jpg http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad264/45fmjoe/KB/brass3.jpg http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad264/45fmjoe/KB/kahr1.jpg http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad264/45fmjoe/KB/kahr2.jpg SAME exact thing happened with my GF's P9 Covert that I gave her as a Christmas gift a few years back. We attributed it to crappy department-issued ammo. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 3:35:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Taurus judges blowing barrels off(not here, saw those on another board) still? jesus i sold 2 raging bulls that did that a few years back and saw numerous reports on the net of other bulls doing that think taurus would figure out the fucking problem |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 3:43:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Taurus judges blowing barrels off(not here, saw those on another board) still? jesus i sold 2 raging bulls that did that a few years back and saw numerous reports on the net of other bulls doing that think taurus would figure out the fucking problem
Don't know if it's true or not but I was told the Judge uses a press-fit instead of threadd in barrel. Barrels came off when .45 colt was shot in the 3" chambered guns-apparently the extra cylinder length was allowing the bullet to go off course and hit the edge of the barrel enough to blow it off. Haven't had any trouble with any of the Taurus products I have had or still have-I hit low with my 1911, but might be as much me as the gun, considering the distances I've been shooting it. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 3:48:52 PM EDT
[#45]
100% sure it's out of battery. The off-center firing pin strike is a giveaway. The barrel was still a bit lower than the fully locked position. My wife's M&P .40 kept doing that, but it was because the recoil spring assembly wasn't long enough to push it fully into battery (the slide could be pulled back 1/8 of an inch and it would stay there).
It may have been okay with new, stronger brass, but still OOB. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 3:54:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Glad you're ok!
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Posted: 1/24/2010 5:54:05 PM EDT
[#47]
The only problems I've had with either of my Kahrs were failures to return to battery. Also when researching about the gun prior to buying my first Kahr I read numerous complaint of people's Kahrs failing to return to batter.
I just tried my PM40. If I just barely move the slide back the striker still drops. The barrel still appears to be locked up, although it moves maybe a centimeter. |
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Posted: 1/25/2010 5:54:08 AM EDT
[#48]
First of all, I would like to say thank you to everyone for your kind words. It is indeed a very good thing all my digits are still attached.
 I was thinking about it being an out of battery fire, but he loaded the gun, set it down on the bench and I picked it up. I'm 99.99% certain it was in battery. I would like to believe I would have noticed the slide slightly rearward. Also, apparently this isn't the first round that has ruptured a case. He said it happened before in his Sig 226 but the Sig just shook it off. Unless this really was an OOB fire and that's why the gun went kaboom. I don't know, I guess we will have to see what Kahr says. |
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Posted: 1/25/2010 5:55:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: The only problems I've had with either of my Kahrs were failures to return to battery. Also when researching about the gun prior to buying my first Kahr I read numerous complaint of people's Kahrs failing to return to batter. I just tried my PM40. If I just barely move the slide back the striker still drops. The barrel still appears to be locked up, although it moves maybe a centimeter. Oh. Well, maybe that was what happened to me. |
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Posted: 1/25/2010 6:02:33 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
about 99 percent of KBs involve reloads out of battery would be easy to check, just pull the slide back a little and try to fire it (on an empty chamber) retire that brass after 5 loads if reloading for a rifle or autoloader revolver, reload until wall splits occur, then dump the whole batch looks like a classic feed ramp blowout, could be an overcharged case, bad brass, or excessively relieved ramp like the glocks. regarding glocks: any gun that routinely bulges brass has a major design flaw. sorry about that, your heroic boner idol gun has a design flaw Really? Where is the evidence or facts to support that claim? |
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