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Wow...How can people be so ignorant? |
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Excellent comments on there. I posted mine as well.
Careful about the trashy language though. We are representing ourselves and you cannot take back what is written--ask Jim Zumbo. |
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I dropped Outdoor Life years ago when they showed signs of getting more soft.
I recall correctly, they started to feature articles about using a camera (not a game camera) which lets Bambi live another year, etc. and if I'd wanted that, I'd buy a photography mag. That kind of set me off. The general tenor and remarks by some writers, not just Zumbo, was/were playing into the anti- philosophy. Then I dropped F & S a few years after that, and I was left with American Hunter and Petersen's Hunting. I was pretty perturbed with Petersen over a non-magazine issue regarding bismuth shot, too. Maybe there was a little jealousy on my part that I didn't have the stature to get free guided hunts, etc. in return for plugging the lodge / guide in a magazine. |
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Here's my response to him. Followed by a email warning F&S magazine that I will get an advertiser list and start emailing them if this guy supports Zumbo and his anti gun stand in their pages.
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+1 Please guys, we are in the right on this issue and the presentation of facts is all that is needed. The over-frothing at the mouth responses that we know and love here, are a detrament elsewhere. |
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My reply.
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Best I could do tonight:
"Stay tuned" (indeed) It doesn't get much clearer than this: "Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Any questions? I am an avid hunter, but more importantly I'm a die-hard shooter. Mr. Zumbo screwed this concept up, but went above and beyond with some irrational comments. Mr. Petzal, you erred once in 1994 and your words are coming back to haunt you; however, we were all more ignorant back then... MAKE NO MISTAKE, they're coming after all guns the next opportunity they perceive feasible. It may take a few years, but that is the end-state desired by the gun-grabbers. (Well except the "elite" rulers such as Feinstein and Pelosi would be allowed to own guns...) Recommendation: Take a hard look inward and get rid of the "elitism" once and for all! We must stand united, and keep them muttering "not today comrade, not today..." (Cold War saying popular amongst us old-school SAC Warriors) I'm not boycotting you YET, but you do have the eyes of many patriots watching your every move, and more importantly every word! |
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I'm not surprised. Let's not forget that in 1776 the majority of American colonists were either actively loyal to the crown or were neutral concerning the impending revolution. Yup... throughout history it has ALWAYS been a few courageous souls (who understand & value liberty) doing the heavy lifting for the masses who find the yoke of tyranny all too comfortable. |
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My reply:
Hunting, hunting, and more hunting. This is not about hunting. Americans do not need to own guns to hunt, they need them to kill. Americans do not need fancy three thousand dollar hunting rifles with custom engraving and gold inlays, they need effective and inexpensive AK47's and AR15's whose sole purpose is to kill humans. The First Amendment is not needed to publish sugar cookie recipies or cute stories about kittens. Likewise, the Second Amendment is not needed to shoot a deer or a rabbit for sport. The Second Amendment gives Americans the right to own weapons that kill. Weapons that are used buy military forces all over the world, simply because the excell at administering death and destruction. Do Americans want to need these weapons? No, of course not. However, many Americans recognize that they do, in fact, need these weapons, so they want them. The Second Amendment ensures that the government is subordinate to the will of the people, not the other way around. Americans must not allow their rights to be trampled on by those who wish to restrict freedom and, by doing so, creates an enviroment that encourages tyranny and allows it to thrive. To tyrants everywhere: You will take our weapons from our cold dead hands! Or not, as we will slowly allow you to take them from us untill it is too late. To my fellow Americans; our freedom and liberty is at stake. Your actions will determine the outcome. |
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A previous poster in this thread stated that he had read a Petzal statement in favor of the AWB fourteen years ago. If true, then he is just as bad as Zumbo, and you are mistaken. |
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The writing is on the wall. The only real decision left to make is whether to stick to the "cold, dead hand" part or not.
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It get's worse, look at this Petzal quote
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I couldn't resist. I almost typed a book. Here is a copy of what I posted:
First off, and I quote from you Mr. Petzel: "he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood." "I’ve been visiting all manner of blogs and chatrooms, which has reminded me of when I used to deliver used clothing to the local mental hospital" This kind of elitist dribble is half the problem. You don't even know the people who read your blogs yet you jump to attack and label people. Let me describe to you this "Yahoo mental patient" that posted in response to Mr. Zumbo's attack. I'm 35 years old. I am college educated. I am a 19 year veteran of the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen and I continue to serve. I am married with an 18 month old daughter. I did 14 months in a warzone to defend your rights. I pay my bills on time and pay my taxes. I defend your Bill of Rights every day. Damn good thing there are plenty of Yahoo mental patients who volunteer to sacrifice their lives so you can stand on your ivory tower. You are no better than ANY of the people that voiced their opinions about Mr. Zumbo. And, you have insulted legal gun owners all over again. What Mr. Zumbo has done for "the sport" has no relevance in the fight to prevent any type of firearm from being banned so who cares what he has done for "the sport". If he was truly supporting "the sport" he would show solid support for ALL gun owners regardless of type. I LEGALLY own several AR-15's and serve the freedoms of this great nation everyday. For Mr. Zumbo to associate the weapon that I defend this country with, and me as a person, with terrorists, is unforgiveable in my book. He further openly stated that he supports them being banned from hunting. That too is unforgiveable. I will die for you, leave my wife to raise my daughter by herself, so that you can hunt with whatever you want. I will defend your rights without question or condition. You can hunt with whatever you want. Let me hunt, punch holes in paper or drop steel targets with whatever I want. I expect equal consideration. The second amemdment is non-negotiable. For me, it is truly a "your with us or against us" issue. There is no middle ground to be stood on. Here is another quote from you: Jim made an immediate apology. He did not equivocate, or qualify, or make excuses. He acted like a gentleman and said he was wrong, and he was sorry. Not once did Jim apologize for his "terrorist" comments. Jim did make excuses, he said he was tired and didn't think things through. That is an excuse. And another one of your quotes: "A United States in which someone can be ruined for voicing an unpopular opinion is a dangerous place. Today it was Jim’s turn. Tomorrow it may be yours." This is not a dangerous situation. It is the power of freedom of speech. What people tend to forget is that you are accountable for what you say. Jim is still the same guy he was before he hit the "post" button. His words are what ruined him. He made the choice to post those "terrorist" insults and demands for "divorcing the hunting community from semi-auto military style rifles." His FINANCIAL backers did not support his position and opinion and pulled the plug. They are allowed to do so because this is a free America. Mr. Zumbo has no one to blame but himself. It was HIS choice to make those comments. Notice that I didn't call you a name or associate you with any less fortunate section of society in my post. Maybe you can learn something from that. Maybe this time you will stand up with ALL gun owners and voice opposition to HR1022. Your previous support of the 94 weapon ban isn't encouraging though. |
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I suppose these writers think no one hunts with an M-1? Seems like a perfectly good deer and black bear gun to me.
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"Someone said that I didn't explicitly mention the words "I'm sorry". I thought those words rang throughout my statement. If not, here it is: I AM SORRY!
Let me put it this way. I am sorry that I said the words "ban" and "terrorist" in the context that I did. I called myself ignorant and irresponsible. If you want to keep kicking me in the butt, go ahead. I AM sincere about this, despite what some of you might think to the contrary." Jim Zumbo 2-22-07 What is this apology Petzle speaks of? Odd, but since Zumbo uses words every day I find the claim that he didn't equivocate laughable. "I'm sorry I said the words"? That's an apology I'd expect from a 4th grader. Goodness, I'm sure he is sorry about what he said. But that's meaningless. Either he can't write or he equivocates. |
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Bravo |
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... Fantastic! ... except you're preaching to the choir on this forum. What you youngsters need to do is educate the young children of America about the fundamentals of RKBA & the 2A ... otherwise, this generation is the end of America defined by the US Constitution |
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My response:
Quite a few folks here are on Jims' side, and that is fine. Jim is entitled to his opinions, as ill conceived as he stated they were. Those same "quite a few" have their heads in a cloud. When one type of firearm is banned, then guess what? YOUR type of firearm is next. Will you then rise up to the challenge, or wait until they come for your next type of firearm? I see on here mentions of "hunter" and "shooter". Does not everybody realize they are the same? Both types point a rifle/shotgun at an object/game via sights/scope, both sides pull a trigger, and both sides send a projectile/projectiles launched by gunpowder from a brass/plastic cased cartridge/shell to the target/game. Hunters and shooters are the same people! I own "hunting rifles" and so called "assault rifles", as well as shotguns. They all do the same thing: send projectiles downrange after I have pulled the trigger. My opinion is this: If you're for banning one type of firearm, you're for banning ALL types of firearms. After "they" take our "assault" rifles, then our "high powered, scoped sniper" rifles, what will we do when "they" come for our "killer" semi-auto and pump shotugns? Are the shooters only going to rise up when they come for the "precision" skeet and trap shotguns? How about your "devastating" .50+ caliber black powder rifle? After all other guns have been confiscated, who will speak for YOU? We had better speak out in favor of each other or we will all DEFINITELY lose in the end. Posted by: scott1957 | February 23, 2007 at 01:43 AM We had better hang together or we will hang separately, Mr. Petzel. Word to the wise. Posted by: BenFranklin | February 23, 2007 at 01:44 AM |
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You guys seem to have gotten way more out of "the gun nuts" column than I did....the salient point I got was his observation of the number of "off with zumbos head" posts. He made the point that the Brady Bunch will be combing these very forums for our own words to use against us and to present to Congress in support of their vile plans.
Zumbo ate the big shit sandwich. We need to be sure we don't eat the crumbs by giving the Brady bunch any ammo to use against us!! Please be cool! |
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Please be cool! Please be cool! Please be cool! Please be cool! Please be cool! I've been saying the same thing in regards to Zumbo as well. This BS about hoping he kills himself and posting his home address is childish and stupid. Make compelling arguments and make sure you spell correctly. Last thing you want them to think is that we are a bunch of illiterate backwoods low IQ cousin humpers. You want to win? We can do it... Just be smart about it. Good post PC! |
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Excellent first post ! Welcome to the site ! |
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I've said this before. I'll repeat myself. THIS WHOLE "SPORTING PURPOSE" BULLSHIT NEEDS TO BE DUG OUT, EXPOSED AND UTTERLY OBLITERATED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH It's an artificially created term just like "Assault Weapon" and has the same effect, it divides firearms ownership into two camps. 1. The "Sportsmen" and their "sporting implements" and 2. Those that own firearms for defense, staying true to the letter and spirit of the The Second Amendment. However the media and politicians have twisted the second camp in to "Machine gun toting militia types" and "gun nuts". Zumbo just took that to the next level by calling us "terrorists". I FULLY support a persons sport of hunting with whatever tools they deem most efficient to do so. Why is becoming so blatantly obvious that they can't do the same for us? I think Petzal has illustrated that clearly. They are willing (eager?) to destroy anyone and anything (including The Second) if it stands in the way of their "sport". These people need to be ousted for the traitors that they are. We would (and do) fight to preserve hunting rights even if we don't hunt and they throw us under the bus to protect themselves. Time to ramp this up and clean house on these people. |
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Any state thinking secession yet? The gov we have now is just like the one that caused the troubles 231 years ago.
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Field and Stream is a FUDD magazine and pretty much always has been. This guy is a FUDD, look at his picks for "best rifles of 2007", it is the same bolt-action FUDD gun over and over. Hell the first 15 of the "greatest guns ever" has three different versions of the Mauser 98, apparently a copy is better and worse than the original.
This guy is about as far from a "gun nut" as you can get. He is basically a democrat, he supports what he likes and does not see a reason for you to like or own anything different that what he likes. FUDD's saying they support gun rights = democrats who support the war FUDD's believe you should only own a couple of crappy bolt rifles and thank the gov't for the privilage. DEMOCRATS pretend they support the troops but undermine ANY polict that could cause victory and pray everyday for the terrorists to finally win. |
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Looks like I wil find the $$$ to make another AR purchase, just cause I know it pisses off so many "fudds".
"Fudds" A word I thought I would not be using, but now I see they really do hate those of us that own ARs. |
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I tagged this. I will contact FS later to make my comments. Anybody or organization that is anti 2A is not my friend.
Let's take these guys down. And, oh yeah. My new AR just arrived at the shop. |
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Damn, what a bunch of uneducated bozos on the commie site you linked. Yes, I may have to register and explain that the history of the world is one of the history of war. It is too bad the commies and leftie elites have managed to brainwash so many in this country. I guess these folks would have defended themselves against the Katrina looters and thugs with kind words and hugs. LOL. We need to fight this ignorance vigorously. |
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I like it. I used it on another forum. PM me if you'd rather I not. |
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Petzal needs to make some apologies himself for supporting the black rifle ban.
That being said, he wasn't totally off base in regards to the Zumbo destruction.
Some of the posts regarding Zumbo do appear as if they came from mental patients or small children. They lack maturity and common sense.
I don't think that many are ready to kiss and make up, but it is time to back off just a bit and see how sincere Zumbo is.
We have already seen the antis using his words against us. Zumbo is definitely paying an exceptionally high price for his comments. We need to redirect this effort against those in the legislature who would even think about another black rifle ban and against those suck as Jim Doyle in Wisconsin who are single handedly blocking CCW within their states. Anyone who says "We don't need hunters on our side" is an absolute idiot. Being ignorant of the big picture is dangerous. Just because there are a few message boards where black rifle enthusiasts get together and groups of us go to the range does not mean that we are the majority in the world of gun users. We already know that there are challenges getting the EBR crowd to the polls. If the EBR community was as some believe it to be, we would have not lost the number of Republican seats that we did and we would have pushed more democrats out of office. Using Zumbo to our benefit is much wiser than continuing to allow him to be used against us. We need help in bridging between the different gun communities. We NEED the hunting community to be our ally. |
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There is no such thing as a FUDD gun. There is NOTHING wrong with preferring a bolt gun over an AR as long as you respect that others prefer an AR and they have the right to own and shoot it. Hunters like myself own several conventional rifles and EBRs. They are all tools used for killing AND other recreational shooting. An analogy is that you can use a crescent wrench on a bolt but sometimes it is more appropriate to use a socket and ratchet. Both get the job done, but sometimes one just works better for the task at hand. |
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How much did Sarah Brady pay you to post that? These are the types of quotes which will haunt us. These are the quotes which are food for the AWB proponents. We can NOT prevail without hunters on our side. To say that we only need to kill people is worse than saying that we only need to hunt animals and not defend ourselves by killing people. Remington, Marlin, Savage, Weatherby, etc. would not exist if it were not for hunters. Saying that we only need black rifles is more ignorant than saying that we do not need black rifles because you should know better. Time for a reality check!!!! We are supposed to be the good guys. We are supposed to be the patriots. How about as a community we start acting and talking like it? Lets set the example for the others to follow. |
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Here is my personal favorite on the first page.
No place for hunting on land? How about on water? I am betting that stealth submarines are no good for hunting on land either. |
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I'm confused here.
How is it that "Hunting" is the only legitimate use for firearms? Isn't that the argument these guys are trying to make? Maybe "Plinking" isn't a sport, but what about 3 gun, or Cowboy Shooting, etc. Was JFK killed with an "Assault Rifle"? |
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Let's face it guys...............the "hunters" will never support us because they are convinced that the Anti's will never ban their rifles if they just relent and support a Black Rifle ban............they arent on our side and they never will be. Our hobby is a threat to them, and if their guns were banned, it would be blamed on us........they wont be swayed, so we need to look elsewhere for allies
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How about we stop being politically correct and say what the 2nd Amendment is really about. It's about the balance between government and people, and it exists to provide the people with the means to drag tyrranical government people into the field and mow them down into a pile of steaming, pink foam. Period. If the RKBA is ever compromised, the government you got is the government you get to keep. If the RKBA is ever compromised, eventually your right to free speech and your right to vote will likewise be compromised. After all, what are you going to do about it? Now it is THEY who have all the guns, and your political lobby doesn't mean shit. It is a slippery slope upon which we balance. |
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My reply
----------- Shame on you Dave, I own both hunting rifles and ugly black guns. I gladly stand by my brothers with thier Remmies and Mausers with which they hunt in defense of thier rights, why can't you and yours do the same for the ugly black gunowners? I for one sir "get it". When they have taken "my" black rifle, they will then turn thier attention on "my" hunting rifles, I do not wish to give up either. Together we stand, divided we fall Dave. I for one am glad you made this blog post and am thankful I found a link to it. You see, I like others had forgotten your follie before the '94 ban but now it has all come back to me. I wish I could say that I'll cancel my subscription to F&S but a subscription is a luxury I don't afford myself. What I can do is this, I have in the past purchased several copies a year when a cover catches my eye at the news stand. No more, further I'll forward a copy of my reply here to all advertisers of F&S letting them know that as long as they support divisive members of the shooting fraternity such as yourself I'll spend my dollars elsewhere. You exercised your first amendment rights Dave, now I'll exercise mine. Good Day JR Hess Riverton, Utah |
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Here is what I wrote on Petzals blog...
Sir, Your comment below shows that you still don’t get what this is all about. This is not about “HUNTING” (“Through his tireless efforts as a teacher and lecturer on hunting and hunting skills, he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood.”). It is about a right to keep and bear arms. All firearms. Not just your bolt action firearms, but my Rock River Arms Elite Car A4 that I love to shoot at my range once a month and use for self defense purposes in a Hurricane prone area where I have to defend my home from looters after a storm. There seems to be a disconnect, with Sports writers, Hunters and the shooting community. What makes my firearm more dangerous then yours? What makes your firearm more sacred and “hands off” from the gun grabbing liberals then mine. It’s not about hunting sir, but attitudes like yours and Zumbo that are giving the Brady’s just what they wanted. Ammunition against my right to Keep and Bear Arms even my Assault Rifle AKA Terrorist riffle. The Chat room heroes didn’t make him unemployable, His attitudes towards the firearms that I decide I wanted to Keep and Bear did. |
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This is a political battle. This fight requires tact and strategy. We NEED the support of the hunting community or we will not ultimately succeed. Only those who show up at the polls and vote will truly have a say in the outcome. Numbers matter.
We all know that the right to bear arms is intended to battle tyrany. It is not to go bunny blasting. Being able to go bunny blasting was assumed back in the mid 1700s. There was no DNR to set hours of hunting or seasons. You just went out and shot meat when you needed it. The reality is that we are in the 21st century. Many many voters have never even killed a bunny or squirrel. The spoiled self centered urbanites just go to Chicken Hut and feed their faces with grease. Fortunately there are still many voters who are hunters. BRD inflicted individuals who are not hunters are in a very small minority. This is a simple absolute fact. The general public does not fear its government and has become apathetic and sluggish. Fat Dumb and Happy. The manor that we present our case and the perception of those who hear it truly matters. Recreational target shooters and hunters need to respect and help each other in our common cause. All should recognize that self defense alone is a legitimate reason to own guns. |
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On Zumbo, Petzal, et.al.,
I tell you I am shocked, shocked to find out there are all these anti-gunners at hunting magazines..... |
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Outfuckingstanding. It is articulate and educated responses such as this that will win the fight. |
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SO much ignorance in these people and they think they're so fricking smart. The smugness and stupidity never ceases to amaze me. We are fucked. |
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my reply...
The 2nd Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting.It isn't mentioned, it wasn't the intention, period. as a Veteran I am insulted by you "hunters" trying to make excuses to the anti-gun crowd. WAKE UP! they want ALL of OUR guns, not half of them. I am really getting sick of these people. |
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