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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:10:37 PM EDT
[#1]
So when will they auction used ones
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:13:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Because you will never see a front wheel drive performance car that is worth a shit. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:20:19 PM EDT
[#3]
MOPAR is back on top again...........
Now if only they were American owned. 
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:29:07 PM EDT
[#4]
hey you guys can flame on me but why dont police use honda or toyota, cops cars are falling apart by 100,000 miles and discarded/auctioned off,
you would thing that municipalities would want cars that last longer? i understand the by US concept but if they would go eles where the US would be forced to make a better product? |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:33:06 PM EDT
[#5]
And you obviously have data to back this up? |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:33:51 PM EDT
[#6]
It's more likely that the US companies would just go to a foreign supplier for their products, at least that's how it usually works. How many US products do you know of that have improved in quality due to a number of thier competitors being of foreign origin? How many do you know of that used to be made in the US but are now made in China?
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:34:56 PM EDT
[#7]
GO MOPAR
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:39:36 PM EDT
[#8]
You try living out of a Toyota for 8 hours or more every day. The full sized cars like the Crown Vic are favored because you need that much space . The smaller cars may work for urban agencies, but not well. Yes, LEO cars that need to drive at pursuit speeds are pretty well whipped by 100K.By then you've dumped one or two trannys into the thing, maybe an engine or two, you've whacked at least 4 or 5 deer in rural agencies, and the repair bills start to really mount up. And the car is only two years old. Its more economical to sell the thing at auction, get a grand or two from some taxi service that'll run the thing for another 100K miles, and buy a new patrol car at state bid pricing. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:44:51 PM EDT
[#9]
I can only speak for the police cars in my area in southern IN.
Our P.D. tends to get rid of their Crown Vic's and Taurus's around the 150K mile mark. But it's not because the cars aren't reliable anymore - after running for 23 of every 24 hours all year. Its usually because they're torn the hell up inside from cops who don't take care of them, and prisoners who beat the shit out of the interior. Sure there are mechanical problems, but it dosen't matter what brand/maker the car is - a vehicle that is ridden as hard and long as a cop car is going to have problems. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:52:38 PM EDT
[#10]
My dad is a deputy. He said that his dept will never have a front drive police car because they have a tendency to require front end rebuilds/replacements. Front drive cars also have a tendency to be smaller, and a police officer needs every available inch of space. If you've ever been in a Crown Vic that is fully outfitted for police work with the radar, radio, computer, shotgun, rifle, etc. you will notice that it is a little cramp.
Another anecdote: Portage Police Department decided to get rid of the Impalas that they had been driving when one of them was unable to keep up with a stock Ford Contour in a pursuit. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:54:20 PM EDT
[#11]
yeah i guess i can understand the space issus, nad the HP need to hual the extra equipment
it just seems to me as many other places that i have been outside the US the police tend to use BMW, Honda, Toyota,and i havent seen many crown vics in the middle east or europe, all these cars seem to be IMO built better than their American counter part. I just seems to me that we are rewarding mediocracy |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:55:36 PM EDT
[#12]
To reply to the posts so far.
Rear wheel drive has a lower maintance cost, U-joints etc are cheap. Trannys for rwd are easyer to replace then fwd. Another problem is the wear on the front tires in a fwd police car, blistering and belt shift are common with fwd. Thats why you don't see them in Indy and Nascar. Also training a driver for rwd vs fwd is a lot easier. the vehicle breaks loose at a very predictible point. Fwd does not due to tire wear, temp, road temp, etc. As to the Mopar on top again, ok they have the top speed. When I was a LEO, they had it then but when came to a chase, the lube and cooling system could not keep up. That is why the Indiana State Police were almost all Fords( A MERC IS A FORD). I come from a time when the best police cars were dodge/plymouth products. And then Ford took over, because they thought about the officer. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 9:02:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Except now the officer gets blown up if his car is rear ended.  Ford has remained on top because up until now, they were the only company that produced a RWD cruiser/interceptor (when the caprice production ended). None of the officers that my dad works with are very happy about their Crown Vics, but they'd rather have one of those than an Impala. Currently my dad is driving one of the new Tahoe 2wd SUVs because aside from being a traffic cop he is also an accident reconstructionist, CSI, and works with the "Covert Lab Unit" responsible for dismantling and taking down meth labs. As you can imagine he has a lot more equipment than the average officer. He was practically jumping for joy when his Tahoe was finally outfitted and ready for patrol. He would still rather have a Caprice (if they still made them) though. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 9:10:57 PM EDT
[#14]
The Crown Vics might (it is rare) burst into flames if hit at 70mph+ from the rear. Hit enough Tahoe's from the rear at 70mph+ and they will start bursting into flames too. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 9:15:13 PM EDT
[#15]
I can see the need for rear wheel drive, but just how much space does a police car need? Other countries seem to do well enough with Holdens, Fords, Mercedes, BMW and Volvo, for example. Mercedes and Volvo estates (Station wagons) are particularly common variants, they probably have more carrying capability than a Crown Vic, and they're plenty fast enough. I'm sure South Carolina State Troopers wouldn't mind a few more local-built Beemers. I'll bet they were happy when they got their M5s way back when. (They're out of service now, I believe)
And of course you have those oddball PDs like Aspen that uses Saabs which are small, FWD, and foreign built, but they're kindof a unique case. NTM |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 9:15:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Just a quick google search on "crown vics fire" got this website:
www.policedriving.com/crownvic.htm not saying one way or another but just found it interesting. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 9:19:11 PM EDT
[#17]
you ever try to turn fast and put power down in a FWD? it dont work well at all. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 9:27:20 PM EDT
[#18]
I dont mean to be a smartass, but two clarifications are in order. Firstly, BMW makes X3s, X5s and Z4s in Spartanburg. No cars. Secondly, a BMW car is usually a Bimmer, and a BMW bike is the Beemer  
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Posted: 12/27/2005 9:31:52 PM EDT
[#19]
I remember when the NYPD had those shitty K-cars. They didn't last very long.
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Posted: 12/27/2005 9:41:51 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 12/27/2005 9:42:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Most of the Magnums and Chargers you'll see in police service will be the 250HP V6, they are the equal to the Crown Vic in performance and price. The Hemi is another 5 grand
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Posted: 12/27/2005 10:11:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Wow, those are some dreadfully slow 0-60 times and crappy brakes too. The fastest cop car going is still a second and a half slower than my Subaru wagon and has shittier brakes.
Everybody whines about Crown Vic fires. When you read the reports they usually said the car was smashed in the rear by a drunk going 60-80mph or some other amazing impact speed. I'd be suprised if they didn't have a fire. That being said, why don't they use a racing style fuel cell in a cop car? Probably the cheapest handling and safety mods would be relocating the battery and some accessories to the trunk for F/R balance and a fuel cell. Then maybe onboard fire extinguisher. All of that can be done for a thousand bucks. WSP used to get rid of cars at the 100K mark. Usually they are hard miles with hundreds of hours of idling. Expecting a cop car to live as long as a civilian car is unreasonable. When I was in the Air Force we had flightline vans with 30K miles that were 8-10 years old when we dumped them. During the winter you started them Sunday night and the idled around for the next 5 days, only cutting them off to fuel them. In eight years, the thing could have 40,000 hours on the engine and the doors were falling off. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 10:18:56 PM EDT
[#23]
When I got my 05 Crown Vic, my 99 that the office traded had 156,000 miles on it. Still ran good but the suspension was getting loose. Our Sheriff, just bought a Honda CRV, for his daily on duty driver. We are about 20 miles from the Honda assembly plant in Marysville, Ohio and a lot of our counties residents are employed at honda or a spin of factory. I am interested to see how the CRV holds up. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 1:47:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Thank you from a Bimmer owner. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 1:56:11 AM EDT
[#25]
Try ramming a suspect vehicle with a Toyota. You'll know why they still favor the Crown Vic. The CVPI is a damned good car for 24hr operation. I highly doubt there are many cars out there that would fare as well over the long haul of all day/night abuse by guys who dont give a damn about how rough they are on the car.
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Posted: 12/28/2005 3:12:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Many agencies have not yet gone to a paperless system. All those reports that magically appear when a unit is on scene are stored, usually, in the trunk, along with any raid or SWAT gear as it pertains to their job, the majority of the computer used by the officer, a spare shotgun or patrol rifle, and traffic equipment. Back seat is for prisoners only. That's a LOT of shit to be in a car. I have talked to many who feel the current Crown Vic we're using are pushing the limits of size. Guess what, we're gonna be going smaller in the coming years. 
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Posted: 12/28/2005 8:37:02 AM EDT
[#27]
I was unaware that they made no saloons in Spartanburg. But for whatever reason, it appears that there is still a form of trade going on between the company and the State. www.promotex.ca/articles/cawthon/2003/02-15-2003_article.html With ref Bimmer/Beemer, you might as well correct hood/bonnet or boot/trunk. Where I was brought up, the distinction is not made, so sue me! NTM |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 10:04:45 AM EDT
[#28]
The Michigan State Police who run a very Police Vehicle test every couple years found the Chevy Impala had more interior space. In performance beat the Crown Vic in every test and had better gas mileage. This was a few years ago. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 10:18:42 AM EDT
[#29]
tag!
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Posted: 12/28/2005 10:19:53 AM EDT
[#30]
Handling and Performance.....also the type of driving that police do will near about wreck a front wheel drive. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 10:21:20 AM EDT
[#31]
Got a full size honda that can fit a prisoner in the back with loads of room in the trunk and can 'shit and git' off the blocks? No, well then we'll stick with Ford. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 10:26:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Well, I guess it's OK for me to show off my Christmas present then:
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Posted: 12/28/2005 10:43:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Having been snookered into being assigned a "test" Impala in 2003 I can tell you flat out that's nonsense. Stuff I kept in a CV trunk I had to stack in the passenger seat. To mount the radio/MDT They had to remove the passenger seat and do a little creative welding.  . The cage left 3" of room between it and the edge of the rear seat. We kind of folded up prisoners and slid them in sideways. You can forget about having someone in the front passenger seat. BTW: It was withdrawn from service with 19K miles because of maint problems. I bent the frame.
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Posted: 12/28/2005 11:09:41 AM EDT
[#34]
There is no way in HExx the Impala has more interior room in it then the CV. And don't even talk about trunk space.....
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Posted: 12/28/2005 12:56:11 PM EDT
[#35]
I couldn't believe the junk the SPs were expected to patrol with when we were helping them out in '03. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 1:00:47 PM EDT
[#36]
You can't compare the needs of some itty bitty European city officers with the needs of US officers who ( some of , anyways) patrol locales as big as some European countries. As I said, you'll find US urban officers making due with mid-sized cars, but they can't keep up with what officers need in most agencies with any size to them. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 1:05:59 PM EDT
[#37]
They should have tested a 395hp Trailblazer SS
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Posted: 12/28/2005 1:53:35 PM EDT
[#38]
that thing got a hemi in it?
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Posted: 12/28/2005 3:09:30 PM EDT
[#39]
My first patrol car was a dodge with a 383 4bbl had tofuel that bad boy twice a shift but you could power slide that puppy in a curve oh yeah.
Then we had malibu's not a bad ride but the dang things fell apart, the "police package" was a buch of crap that the gm idots "thought " we needed but didn't. Then I had a nova SS four door rough ride but would run like a ape Then I had a ford faremont plastic everywhere screwy gear ratio 0-60 in about 3 seconds top at 80 bad tranny killed that one The next was a caprice aka bathtub a boat untill we got a mechanic who knew how to order parts everyone of them got jasper lt1 engines on rebuild. The thing had full roller cams etc. the engines would last and it was wild to see one of us doing burn outs from a sitting start. Last ones were Crown Vics best balance of all for size/weight and space. The very last "patrol" was in E-350 ambulance powerstroke diesel all kinds of room for all the crap I needed as a medic oh and they hold up in a rool over. been there done that and have the scars.
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Posted: 12/28/2005 3:12:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Wrong, SRT-4..... Enough said. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 3:38:28 PM EDT
[#41]
My Camaro had junk stacked to the roof, But it was fun.
My Vic has everything in the trunk and does OK. Impalas SUCK. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 7:05:47 PM EDT
[#42]
I own two Toyotas and love them, but for a patrol car I want a huge, rear wheel drive car witha V-8 and four wheel disk brakes. Since the demise of the beloved '96 Caprice, we've had mostly Crown Vics, but have also tried Durangos, Jeep Cherokees, Explorers and Dodge Intrepids. The Intrepids and Durangos were the worst, by far, even though they were reasonably quick. I know we're looking at the Chargers, but I don't have high hopes. Just because they paint it black and white doesn't make it a patrol car.
Tonk |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 7:28:39 PM EDT
[#43]
But how well does it do when you put 600+ pounds of equipment in it? I'd love to see a real-world test. The local city police are also public safety officers (firemen), so they've got even more stuff in their cars than that. Their test Impalas did great. After they bought them and finished their very expensive (due to having to make custom brackets and trunk shelves due to lack of space) upgrades, they found the performance to be unacceptable. You also have to be very careful with them going over railroad tracks and entrances because the suspension in the Impalas can't handle the weight. There are now a bunch of gouges in the concrete entrance to the police parking lot near my office from the Imapalas bottoming-out. A former coworker was involved in a car chase while driving one of the Impalas. He said the two LTD's with him easily out handled and out accelerated him. I know this guy is a very good driver. He used to race, and he used to be a test driver for his cousin's (Jerry Nadeau) NASCAR team. He is a very anti-Impala now. This is also ignoring the greatly increased maintenance costs. According to one report from a local department that was in the newspaper, they're spending three times as much on the Impalas as the LTD's. Of course they have more experience with the LTD's so it isn't quite a fair comparison, but that is a huge difference.z |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 7:49:12 PM EDT
[#44]
American cops carry more equipment (many cop cars have multiple cameras with VCRs, 2 radar pickups, a computer, several radios, controls for the lights, road flares & various crash response gear, etc.) and regularly have to transport LARGE people. Have you ever seen COPS on Fox? Those are some BIG people! Also, while Toyotas and Hondas are GREAT cars for average use, police use is NOT average. The average police car has 500-700 lbs of stuff in it that strains all of the cars systems, and these cars must be able to run 23+ hours a day, and be able to sit idling for an entire 8 hour shift without overheating or burning anything up. That's why they have things like oversized radiators, larger water pumps, heavy duty alternators, etc. You can't get most of these things for smaller import cars, because they wouldn't fit. Even the Impalas have this same problem. Police use what has been PROVEN to work the best: a full-size, rear-wheel drive CAR. SUVs are fine for supervisors and investigators, but for a patrol vehicle, a car is preferable. -Troy |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 7:51:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Are you saying this http://www.dodge.com/srt-4/ would make a good patrol car? |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 7:55:26 PM EDT
[#46]
European cops, particulary highway patrol units, carry just as much of the very same stuff. I wonder how do they do it? |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 8:00:12 PM EDT
[#47]
Poorly. Their cop cars would be completely outclassed on American roads. -Troy |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 8:04:05 PM EDT
[#48]
The PROBLEM with FWD is mainly that they break when you try and cross curbs at speed. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 8:06:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Ask this guy: Officer Jason - PPD The Crown Vic is a fucking fire trap and Ford knows it. Yes...I was part of the inquiry. Sheep |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 8:08:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Have you ever even been to Europe or driven there? Hmmmmmm, C and E Class M-Bs, 3 and 5 series BMWs, turbocharged Opel Omegas, turbocharged Volvo V70s. Yeah, those cars will be outclassed in the US.......  |
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