User Panel
TEN YEARS to build a single sub?
I know even we can't crank them out like we did the Liberty Ships, but GEEZ!
Yep. Right until she goes to sea and one of our boats is waiting.... |
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I'm just quaking in my boots at the Brazilian Navy and their one sub.
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Gents, the Brazilians aren't the enemy... I've been there, nice country, nice people. They've got a Carrier, too, one of the old French boats. I saw their previous carrier (an old British ship) when I was there in '99. |
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Conventional meaning diesel electric. Long ago outdated. No threat whatsoever. Good training sub.
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Just a guess, but maybe national defense. |
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No. |
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ANY sub can dive to the very bottom of any part in the ocean, including the Challenger Deep, the
deepest point known in the Marianas Trench, at a depth of 35,813 feet! The question, more relevantly put, is, how deep can one dive and RETURN SAFELY? To give an idea, at the bottom of the Challenger Deep, the pressure on a vessel is about 16,000 PSI! That's not a misprint. Sixteen thousand pounds per square inch. If you had a structural failure at that pressure level, you would not live long enough to sense that you had a problem. You'd just implode at incredible speed as would your vessel. CJ |
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Very true, thanks to them there is such a thing as a Brazilian Bikini wax on women |
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Thinking like that can get you killed. D/E boats can be very quiet, small, and tend to be optimized for shallow water unlike our nuke boats that were designed for blue-water ops. Smaller countries can also afford to build a lot more of them for less money. Someone posted a while back (probably Vito or KA3B) about naval exercises where some of these Long ago outdated and No threat whatsoever D/E boats managed to penetrate our ASW screens and sink U.S. carriers. There is also talk of the U.S. Navy getting back into the D/E business. |
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Diesel Electric subs are for coastal defense and they are very good at that role. Countries with long coastlines (eg Canada, Brazil) find they are very cost effective.
They aren't as good as nuclear for long range force projection (ie launching missiles) due to range and speed. I guess they are typically smaller than nuclear subs, and a lot cheaper. The modern diesel/electrics can be as quiet as the nuclear subs. editted to add, bmick325 makes my point better than I did. |
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Is that a mistake? Diesel subs don't usually go faster under water, do they? |
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I believe I saw that movie! "Down Periscope". "Welcome Aboard" - Capt. Dodge. |
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From what I have read, the Brazilian military has been anxiously searching for a mission. They face no internal or external threats. Debate in Brazil concerning national security policy has been practically nonexistent. Civil society continues to show a complete lack of interest in issues related to defense.
Building this sub was probably just a matter of national pride. |
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They plan on attacking foreign fishing boats in their waters? Who has the naval threat they are preparing for?
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No misprint. They are much more stable underwater, allowing greater speed. Scott |
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no thats standard ever since the guppy class. the teardrop shape makes them faster underwater than on top |
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Brazil wants to be the strongest of the South American countries. This is one way of telling the world that they have arrived.
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subs are designed more for a offensive weapon not defensive. you want a fancy defensive weapon you build a ship everyone can see and run scared when it shoots at you. sub go out and kill another countries ships and cripples commerce like the nazi's did during the first and second war.
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Are they going to attack the Falklands again? Hope not or else they won't have any subs left. |
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That was the argentinians |
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Kudos to them!
Building a submarine of that size is a HUGE undertaking, and I congratulate them for their success (so far....I'll hold final judgement until its been in the water a few years to see how it holds up). And don't bash the Brazillians.....their womenz are HOT HOT HOT! |
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Isn't that kind of like wanting to be the smartest Stooge? |
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That was Argentina vs. UK |
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That was Argentina. |
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I think the question we're all asking ourselves is: Are there going to be beautiful, scantly dressed Brazilian women at the helm?
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Not Conventional subs, not anymore. In order to transit long stretches, they have to run thier engines - when they do that, they are LOUD. Any decent ASW force would kill them. This type of sub is good for coastal defense and littoral ops. Sure, they can do the deep sea thing, but they aren't nearly as good at it. If Brazil wanted to attack someone, they'd use airstrikes from their carrier. |
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FWIW… the US Navy is actively considering the purchase of Conventional Submarines like this one with Air Independent Propulsion for Littoral Warfare role…
ETA: And yes… British Diesel Electric Subs used to regularly penetrate US carrier groups ASW screens and score 'Kills' on US carriers in the OCEAN SAFARI exercises… of course the ASW force would usually then get the boat, but 'for exercise', the carrier was toast. ANdy |
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News Flash There were no Nazi'z durring the 1st world war! |
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Things I learned by reading this thread:
Brazil attacked the Falkland Islands. Nazis fought in the First World War. ARFCOM: What have YOU learned today. Av. |
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or dark tan nekid with bikini lines and some pooper poking |
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"Don't stop him. He's on a roll." - Animal House |
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Brazil is refferred to as the regional economic powerhouse in South America. That is a significant amount of power to them. You might not have noticed. They are certainly enjoying it, however. |
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Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't it take is 8-10 years to pump out a carrier? (Yes I know a carrier takes considerably longer to make) |
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Umm.... defense and also because they have every right to. |
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Honestly, I think that would be a foolish endevour. We shouldn't build Conventional subs, because then the Dems will say 'hey, they are cheaper, why do we need nukes?'. And sooner or later, we won't have any nukes. Plus, all our newest subs are almost as quiet as the best deseil boats - with a lot better sensors and firepower. Both the British (now Canadian, I believe) Upholders and the new Aussie boats are NICE conventional subs, though. As are the Japanese boats. All top flight designs that we could produce if need be. |
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Turn your humor switch to the "on" position. I've been to Brazil numerous times. While it is indeed the largest economy in SA, it is still barely above a Third World country. And yes, I have been to plenty of true third world countries to be able to compare. |
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Trouble with a nuclear boat is the size!!! They are big and need a lot of water… a 2,000 ton DE boat is considered big… they are ideal for inserting SpecOps forces. ANdy |
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Maybe he meant future nazis. |
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TOTALLY agree with you there. I'd actually love to have a few, as well as some 'light' carriers. I'm just afraid that the moment we build some, we'll stop building the big stuff. And that worry is enough for me to oppose it. |
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+1 Diesel subs are extremely dangerous if used in the right manner. I am hoping the US will go with a smaller nuclear sub for littoral warfare, as it still gives us deep sea capability with them. |
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there is nothing that requires a nuke sub to be big. Advances in nuclear power and propulsion technologies have made it childs play. The problem is the expense of a nuclear power plant for a smaller, less capable submarine. The last estimates I read put it at 80% of the cost of a "full-size" ssn with about 65% of its combat power. Thats the reason we are looking at diesels. The problem is its we ignore the human cost if we are ever forced to commit those diesel subs against a well prepared ASW screen. I say stay nuke as well. |
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