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Posted: 3/8/2021 11:31:08 AM EDT
A sarcastic question really. I know things have changed since I retired 15 years ago but the general rule was 2 times. After the second time you were passed over you either resigned or retired cause you were done. I guess there is always that one special case, 3rd times a charm for this colonel.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/03/05/marine-colonel-gets-1-star-nomination-after-being-passed-over-promotion-3-times.html?ESRC=eb_210308.nl Marine Colonel Gets 1-Star Nomination After Being Passed Over for Promotion 3 Times  "Nominated for appointment to the rank of brigadier general, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin." |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 11:36:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Lol
ETA: Hitler joined the mARINEs? |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 11:36:11 AM EDT
[#2]
well you know why he got promoted now don't you ?
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Posted: 3/8/2021 11:39:25 AM EDT
[#3]
Captain to Major in the Army is 3 times non select and you’re separated. Not sure what it is for generals, but there’s definitely more to this story than they’re saying.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 11:58:50 AM EDT
[#4]
As the article states
“A Black Marine officer” Instead of “Marine Officer” He very well may be qualified, plenty of politics in the military as anywhere, but they make it about something other than his ability, which isn’t his fault, unless he’s a shitbag... |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:00:40 PM EDT
[#5]
That’s insane. The competition for flag is beyond harsh. I’ve never heard of someone making flag without having an impeccable record and certainly never passed up for promotion. I wonder how many more qualified dudes were passed over for this?
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:04:31 PM EDT
[#6]
But Maverick is still a captain
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:04:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Can only speak to the AF side, but generally after you’re passed over the second time that was game over. You can be ”continued” to get to retirement, but you’d be very unlikely to progress after that. To make 1-star after getting passed over? That’s unheard of from my limited experience.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:08:13 PM EDT
[#8]
This is the worst folk song ever....
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:12:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Used to be twice and then you were shuffled off into the retirement (or reserves if you wanted to stay in). I've met guys who couldn't reach lt. col. All it takes is one bad evaluation and it's over.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:13:42 PM EDT
[#10]
The thing is, this guy knows damn well he got an undeserved promotion over other people with better records and he still took the promotion. That tells me all I need to know about this “leader”.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:14:44 PM EDT
[#11]
The AF has recently gone to a 5-year promotion opportunity window.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:14:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Colonels can stay to 30 years for full retirement regardless of the number of times a non-select to BG.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:16:11 PM EDT
[#13]
In my case its been 5 times passed over. Been non-selected more times than I've been promoted.
In the AF they have something called "selective continuation". Basically I wasn't selected for promotion but selected to stay in to retire. There also was an option to stay in to 24 years, which I declined. Any second active duty past 20 you're working for half pay. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:17:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing is, this guy knows damn well he got an undeserved promotion over other people with better records and he still took the promotion. That tells me all I need to know about this “leader”. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:18:17 PM EDT
[#15]
I was wondering why. I opened the thread. I'm not wondering anymore.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:21:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perhaps he believes that he was passed over unfairly and that he deserves this? Could be. And just because someone at the O6 level doesn’t make flag certainly does not mean they are a bad leader. It’s a numbers thing. But any even perceived bad mark will stop any O6 from flag. This guy may be a great leader but my guess instead is he will be a great and loyal progressive soldier for the dementia potus |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:21:50 PM EDT
[#17]
So question from someone with no military background. It sounds like if you are passed over for promotion a few times that you are forced out of the military. So if you have 12 years in and want to make a career out of it, you get shown the door if you do not advance? What if you are good at your current job? Just curious because that seems like it could suck bad if you were close to retiring and got fired with no pension or benefits.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:23:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could be. And just because someone at the O6 level doesn’t make flag certainly does not mean they are a bad leader. It’s a numbers thing. But any even perceived bad mark will stop any O6 from flag. This guy may be a great leader but my guess instead is he will be a great and loyal progressive soldier for the dementia potus Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Perhaps he believes that he was passed over unfairly and that he deserves this? Could be. And just because someone at the O6 level doesn’t make flag certainly does not mean they are a bad leader. It’s a numbers thing. But any even perceived bad mark will stop any O6 from flag. This guy may be a great leader but my guess instead is he will be a great and loyal progressive soldier for the dementia potus |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:24:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could be. And just because someone at the O6 level doesn’t make flag certainly does not mean they are a bad leader. It’s a numbers thing. But any even perceived bad mark will stop any O6 from flag. This guy may be a great leader but my guess instead is he will be a great and loyal progressive soldier for the dementia potus Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Perhaps he believes that he was passed over unfairly and that he deserves this? Could be. And just because someone at the O6 level doesn’t make flag certainly does not mean they are a bad leader. It’s a numbers thing. But any even perceived bad mark will stop any O6 from flag. This guy may be a great leader but my guess instead is he will be a great and loyal progressive soldier for the dementia potus I think there was an article about this guy before, IIRC his record is pretty much “this is a guy who gets a star” but whether that was a manufactured thing or not I have no idea (and wouldn’t be qualified to speculate on). |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:31:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So question from someone with no military background. It sounds like if you are passed over for promotion a few times that you are forced out of the military. So if you have 12 years in and want to make a career out of it, you get shown the door if you do not advance? What if you are good at your current job? Just curious because that seems like it could suck bad if you were close to retiring and got fired with no pension or benefits. Non mil guy here too, but sounds like they're put on a retirement track if they're close enough. I don't know if there is a sort of age thing going on, like captain by age 25 or 30, major by 35, etc. ETA: I suspect it's harsher for enlisted. Passed over enough times, you are forced out, I'm guessing. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:34:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Non mil guy here too, but sounds like they're put on a retirement track if they're close enough. I don't know if there is a sort of age thing going on, like captain by age 25 or 30, major by 35, etc. ETA: I suspect it's harsher for enlisted. Passed over enough times, you are forced out, I'm guessing. O6 is forced retired at 30. There may be an exception here or there like previous enlisted service |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:34:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Colonels can stay to 30 years for full retirement regardless of the number of times a non-select to BG. Col Henderson's initial commission date is 1989, so he has run out of time to stay in service without this appointment. The current time to promote to Colonel in the USMC is 22 years. The mean years of service at which an appointment for BG is granted to Colonels is 27 years. The passed over language is typically ascribed to mid-career field grade officers looking to earn their O-5 and O-6 promotions. The strength of experience of each COL is weighed against each other for the appointment nominations. The NY Times has profiled Col Henderson twice, and neither the authors or field of commentators grasp the field of Colonels. Twenty years ago, I was the HQ Co XO for a squadron which was producing 30 year Colonels, so I am familiar with the process these Marines go through. Further, my TBS squad has produced 2 full birds. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:36:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So question from someone with no military background. It sounds like if you are passed over for promotion a few times that you are forced out of the military. So if you have 12 years in and want to make a career out of it, you get shown the door if you do not advance? What if you are good at your current job? Just curious because that seems like it could suck bad if you were close to retiring and got fired with no pension or benefits. That is the way it is. Depending on when you are in, promotions are slow and difficult, or fast as long as you are not stupid. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:38:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But Maverick is still a captain He keeps getting busted down for buzzing the tower. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:40:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Bear in mind the selection rate for BG's is something like 2%, so most good guys don't make it past Colonel, even if they had O-6 command.
That being said, most of them get one chance and get the "you aren't getting promoted" call. Rarely do you see guys with that many non-selects get pulled from the above zone though. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:44:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing is, this guy knows damn well he got an undeserved promotion over other people with better records and he still took the promotion. That tells me all I need to know about this “leader”. That's your white privilege showing... 
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:45:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is the way it is. Depending on when you are in, promotions are slow and difficult, or fast as long as you are not stupid. I did a single hitch as a navy MA and saw my rate go from “can’t make Chief? Got a pulse? Crossrate!” to kicking out E5s in like 3ish years. Such is military personnel management. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:51:33 PM EDT
[#28]
The pool of full bird Colonels in the USMC is fairly small. I believe they all get looked at annually for promotion. As long as your age and years in service don't push you out the door I don't see getting passed over for General to be the deciding factor in when a Colonels career is over. They have an expiration date. And when they hit that date they get shown the door. Becoming a General in the USMC is exceedingly rare just because the Corps is relatively small. Making Colonel in the USMC is quite an achievement.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:52:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As the article states “A Black Marine officer” Instead of “Marine Officer” He very well may be qualified, plenty of politics in the military as anywhere, but they make it about something other than his ability, which isn’t his fault, unless he’s a shitbag... Thought the Marines were one of the first to integrate their troops? |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 12:57:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol ETA: Hitler joined the mARINEs? took me a second but I found him just like those old where's waldo books LOL |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:08:48 PM EDT
[#31]
You get 3 looks. But after the second fail to promote, the statutory 3rd look is administrative and unlikely to produce results.
IF you are vested, you may remain on active duty until your high - year tenure point. (In the Navy - I don't know if other services have different cut points I suspect they are the same because Congress controls the Officer Numbers in the budget). O-4 Promotion window to O-5 is generally at 16 years - High Year tenure is 20 years (Retirement eligible - was 16 years until the late 90s which caused a lot of Officers not to stay for their Department Head tours - risk getting to 16 years, not getting promoted and no retirement to show for it) O-5 Promotion window to O-6 is generally at 19 years - High Year tenure is 26 years O-6 High Year tenure is 30 years Failing to promote to O-4 is...bad New retirement system will likely change all of this |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:10:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s insane. The competition for flag is beyond harsh. I’ve never heard of someone making flag without having an impeccable record and certainly never passed up for promotion. I wonder how many more qualified dudes were passed over for this? Especially in the Marine Corps. They have a very small number of flag billets. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:11:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any second active duty past 20 you're working for half pay. A rare officer that understands marginal cost! |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:12:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He keeps getting busted down for buzzing the tower. Officer's don't get "busted down". |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:13:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The pool of full bird Colonels in the USMC is fairly small. I believe they all get looked at annually for promotion. As long as your age and years in service don't push you out the door I don't see getting passed over for General to be the deciding factor in when a Colonels career is over. They have an expiration date. And when they hit that date they get shown the door. Becoming a General in the USMC is exceedingly rare just because the Corps is relatively small. Making Colonel in the USMC is quite an achievement. Being retained in the USMC to any retirement age is an achievement. For all of the Corps' flaws, their pool of field grades is the best pound for pound in the DOD by a wide margin. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:13:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perhaps he believes that he was passed over unfairly and that he deserves this? Sure that is what "affirmative" action is all about...finally justice for past grievances...for him personally or for the race or both. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:17:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my case its been 5 times passed over. Been non-selected more times than I've been promoted. In the AF they have something called "selective continuation". Basically I wasn't selected for promotion but selected to stay in to retire. There also was an option to stay in to 24 years, which I declined. Any second active duty past 20 you're working for half pay. I was taught this early in my career. Ended up doing 21 just cause thats the way the clock worked. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:19:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A rare officer that understands marginal cost! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Any second active duty past 20 you're working for half pay. A rare officer that understands marginal cost! I'm not so sure about that. My first post service job I was making 2/3 of what I did in uniform, without the tax benefits. But maybe I'm an unmarketable schlub. The extra 2.5% per year of service beyond 20 was a nice bump to the pension. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:19:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He keeps getting busted down for buzzing the tower. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But Maverick is still a captain He keeps getting busted down for buzzing the tower. And buzzing admirals daughters |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:26:31 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thought the Marines were one of the first to integrate their troops? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As the article states “A Black Marine officer” Instead of “Marine Officer” He very well may be qualified, plenty of politics in the military as anywhere, but they make it about something other than his ability, which isn’t his fault, unless he’s a shitbag... Thought the Marines were one of the first to integrate their troops? Read which way the wind is blowing in this country recently. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:32:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was taught this early in my career. Ended up doing 21 just cause thats the way the clock worked. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In my case its been 5 times passed over. Been non-selected more times than I've been promoted. In the AF they have something called "selective continuation". Basically I wasn't selected for promotion but selected to stay in to retire. There also was an option to stay in to 24 years, which I declined. Any second active duty past 20 you're working for half pay. I was taught this early in my career. Ended up doing 21 just cause thats the way the clock worked. And whoever taught you that is wrong. If you go ten years without at least one promotion, you are probably garbage. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:50:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can only speak to the AF side, but generally after you’re passed over the second time that was game over. You can be ”continued” to get to retirement, but you’d be very unlikely to progress after that. To make 1-star after getting passed over? That’s unheard of from my limited experience. I personally know of an Air Force O5 who was passed over three times, then made O6. White as the pure driven snow. Just a good guy who did great work, and didn't have the right guardian angel until right up against his retirement date. Working directly for a 2-star can bring back any career, apparently. ETA: Then, once you make the next rank, it resets all the counters (time in grade, etc.) So I could see it. BTW, I think you know who I'm talking about, I think he was at the same base we were at, same time. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 2:10:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I personally know of an Air Force O5 who was passed over three times, then made O6. White as the pure driven snow. Just a good guy who did great work, and didn't have the right guardian angel until right up against his retirement date. Working directly for a 2-star can bring back any career, apparently. ETA: Then, once you make the next rank, it resets all the counters (time in grade, etc.) So I could see it. BTW, I think you know who I'm talking about, I think he was at the same base we were at, same time. A lot of Officers fail to promote on Active Duty. Get out, remain in the reserves, and get promoted. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 2:13:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Officer's don't get "busted down". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He keeps getting busted down for buzzing the tower. Officer's don't get "busted down". Well it's a fucking movie, so... |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 2:15:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing is, this guy knows damn well he got an undeserved promotion over other people with better records and he still took the promotion. That tells me all I need to know about this “leader”. Truth |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 2:23:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So question from someone with no military background. It sounds like if you are passed over for promotion a few times that you are forced out of the military. So if you have 12 years in and want to make a career out of it, you get shown the door if you do not advance? What if you are good at your current job? Just curious because that seems like it could suck bad if you were close to retiring and got fired with no pension or benefits. For EM it's Up or Out. If you do not Continuously get promoted every so often you are Gone. E-5 after 10 years, E-6 after 20, I don't know what the cutoffs are now. I can only guess what the numbers for officers are. 
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Posted: 3/8/2021 2:23:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Non mil guy here too, but sounds like they're put on a retirement track if they're close enough. I don't know if there is a sort of age thing going on, like captain by age 25 or 30, major by 35, etc. ETA: I suspect it's harsher for enlisted. Passed over enough times, you are forced out, I'm guessing. In the Marines it was “up or out” for both officer and enlisted. If you make Major (O-4) or Staff Sergeant (E-6) you could basically stay for 20, as long as you did not commit a crime. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 2:32:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And whoever taught you that is wrong. If you go ten years without at least one promotion, you are probably garbage.  Not sure what you are talking about referring to promotion but I think you missed the point. Staying in beyond 20 equals working for half pay when you can retire and start another job there by collecting 2 paychecks.For me, I lined up a consulting gig about 6 months shy of retiring. It pays significantly more than I was making as a CPO. That's the theory of working for half pay. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 2:42:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my case its been 5 times passed over. Been non-selected more times than I've been promoted. In the AF they have something called "selective continuation". Basically I wasn't selected for promotion but selected to stay in to retire. There also was an option to stay in to 24 years, which I declined. Any second active duty past 20 you're working for half pay. For me it was 4 times in the secondary zone. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 2:51:38 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any second active duty past 20 you're working for half pay. This is so true and I hardly hear anyone bring it up. |
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