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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:53:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pics &/or links to IFAK’s?... Here are the Amazon costs if you buy peices: Hyfin vented chest seal 2 pair $17 2x Gen 7 cat tourniquet $29 each Isreali bandage 2x$9 (OLAES is better) Quik clot $20 ($40 combat gauze is better, but alot of regular gauze with approx 10 minutes of pressure works instead of quik clot with 3 min of pressure) S rolled compressed gauze two pack $9 Trauma shears $13 Nasopharyngeal Airway (NPA) $7 6 Gloves & other PPE Tape Silver sharpie (writes visibly on all skin tones) Bag $17- Compact Tactical MOLLE Rip-Away EMT Medical First Aid Utility Pouch 1000D Nylon Carlebben I know this is not an expert kit, but it I think if is sufficient for a boring civilian like me. Feel free to provide feedback. Edit- For those with IFAKs or similar bleeding control kits, do any of you carry a smaller kit in your pocket or ankle as part of your edc? I keep this kit in my vehicle. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:54:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Doesnt look like he's gonna make it...
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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:54:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The reason I asked in response to your why question is because I am wondering how usefull restraints are for civilians. I agree it there are health and legal risks to restrain someone. What pros are there (if any) that out weigh the risks? Edit- I ask because I am wondering if restraints are worth owning and carrying. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With all this cuff talk, how many here keep some type of cuff (tuff ties for example) on their body when carrying or in their ifak? And there is no way I am using them unless I can articulate that the person is actively a threat to me, himself, or others. The possibility of him being a threat is not enough to justify it. Restraining a person is a good way to be charged for battery and/or kidnapping. I know. It sounds nuts. Quoted: Why? I have no duty to arrest, and I'm not endangering myself to try and restrain someone who just tried to harm me.. I'll cover him with my pistol until the police arrive... Edit- I ask because I am wondering if restraints are worth owning and carrying. I work as an Emergency Medical Response teacher. I'm Fire Commissioner for a rural MS volunteer fire district that does run medical calls, and I am EMS Program Director, Administrator, and Lead Instructor for another rural Louisiana volunteer fire district that also runs medical calls. 100% of what I do in any EMS capacity outside of my teaching is volunteer, and we only exist due to the reality that rural communities must rely on volunteer first responders. That said... I've been in a few situations where it could have been prudent to retrain a person, but I did not do so. If a threat exists, I instruct responders to remain out of danger until LEOs restrain, and I practice that in my own life. I've treated more than a few people that were restrained by LEOs, however. I just wasn't going to be the one to do it. Maybe I am a little too callous, but my students joke that they are going to get a tattoo with my Three Maxims: 1. The first life that you save is your own. 2. Sometimes people die. 3. Sometimes you can't do anything about #2. You do the best that you can without putting yourself in unreasonable risk. You let the cards fall as they may. FYI-- and off-topic, I also tell my students that one man's hero is another person's failure. I do not advocate for volunteer first responders to easily trade their lives for strangers. It sounds great to be a "hero" but that dead hero leaves a wife and children with hardships that they'll never recover from. He's not much of a hero to his family that needs him. And I am sure that that person saved isn't going to set up a foundation to meet your family's needs while you are 6 feet under the dirt. I tell students to carefully consider their responsibilities and commitments. It sounds callous, but Truth doesn't have emotions. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:57:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. My response to an attack will in all likelihood make such attempted aid completely useless. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/77917/IMG_1686_PNG-773117.JPG 
Fuck that’s awesome. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:58:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Try to do harm to me or mine and you're waiting for the EMTs.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:03:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Being untrained in first aid would it be frowned upon if tightened a tourniquet around his neck, good and tight to stop any bleeding.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:03:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like I said, I have restraints in my bag. For disclosure, I want to mention why I am in any of this. I'm not some HSLD type, and I don't work on an ambulance. I work as an Emergency Medical Response teacher. I'm Fire Commissioner for a rural MS volunteer fire district that does run medical calls, and I am EMS Program Director, Administrator, and Lead Instructor for another rural Louisiana volunteer fire district that also runs medical calls. 100% of what I do in any EMS capacity outside of my teaching is volunteer, and we only exist due to the reality that rural communities must rely on volunteer first responders. That said... I've been in a few situations where it could have been prudent to retrain a person, but I did not do so. If a threat exists, I instruct responders to remain out of danger until LEOs restrain, and I practice that in my own life. I've treated more than a few people that were restrained by LEOs, however. I just wasn't going to be the one to do it. Maybe I am a little too callous, but my students joke that they are going to get a tattoo with my Three Maxims: 1. The first life that you save is your own. 2. Sometimes people die. 3. Sometimes you can't do anything about #2. You do the best that you can without putting yourself in unreasonable risk. You let the cards fall as they may. FYI-- and off-topic, I also tell my students that one man's hero is another person's failure. I do not advocate for volunteer first responders to easily trade their lives for strangers. It sounds great to be a "hero" but that dead hero leaves a wife and children with hardships that they'll never recover from. He's not much of a hero to his family that needs him. And I am sure that that person saved isn't going to set up a foundation to meet your family's needs while you are 6 feet under the dirt. I tell students to carefully consider their responsibilities and commitments. It sounds callous, but Truth doesn't have emotions. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:05:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. I'm too busy stripping and making sure my gun is fully disassembled before LEO arrives and shoots me too. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:09:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Absolutely, I keep 3 ounces of denatured alcohol and a box of strike anywhere matches in my IFAK just for that reason.
Seriously, no , fuck no. Aside from the consideration this shithead was just trying to kill me, I'm not trained to render aid, don't have PPE, and am disinclined to get sued after I save him. There is no shortage of humans and this is a god example of one we don't need. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:16:43 PM EDT
[#10]
NO!
Next Question... |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:19:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is what I did to help you get started... I also recommend a bleeding control training course. Here are the Amazon costs if you buy peices: Hyfin vented chest seal 2 pair $17 2x Gen 7 cat tourniquet $29 each Isreali bandage 2x$9 (OLAES is better) Quik clot $20 ($40 combat gauze is better, but alot of regular gauze with approx 10 minutes of pressure works instead of quik clot with 3 min of pressure) S rolled compressed gauze two pack $9 Trauma shears $13 Nasopharyngeal Airway (NPA) $7 6 Gloves & other PPE Tape Silver sharpie (writes visibly on all skin tones) Bag $17- Compact Tactical MOLLE Rip-Away EMT Medical First Aid Utility Pouch 1000D Nylon Carlebben I know this is not an expert kit, but it I think if is sufficient for a boring civilian like me. Feel free to provide feedback. Edit- For those with IFAKs or similar bleeding control kits, do any of you carry a smaller kit in your pocket or ankle as part of your edc? I keep this kit in my vehicle. 1x SOFTT-W 1x Trauma Shear 1x HALO Seal 1x Celox Gauze (hemostatic) 1x Regular Gauze 1x Nitrile Gloves 1x Ryker AFAK I'll add an NPA once I get training for it. Otherwise I'll fit the TQ and gloves in one pocket, gauze in one, hemostatic in another, CS in it's pocket, shears wherever. Edit: always forget to list gloves. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:25:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm putting together an IFAK ankle kit for EDC. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:30:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm putting together an IFAK ankle kit for EDC. 1x SOFTT-W 1x Trauma Shear 1x HALO Seal 1x Celox Gauze (hemostatic) 1x Regular Gauze 1x Ryker AFAK I'll add an NPA once I get training for it. Otherwise I'll fit the TQ in one pocket, gauze in one, hemostatic in another, CS in it's pocket, shears wherever. Fyi the ryker afak link sends me to gauze |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:30:49 PM EDT
[#14]
If I put the holes in the leaky motherfucker, I'm not going to patch them back up.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:31:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm putting together an IFAK ankle kit for EDC. 1x SOFTT-W 1x Trauma Shear 1x HALO Seal 1x Celox Gauze (hemostatic) 1x Regular Gauze 1x Ryker AFAK I'll add an NPA once I get training for it. Otherwise I'll fit the TQ in one pocket, gauze in one, hemostatic in another, CS in it's pocket, shears wherever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here is what I did to help you get started... I also recommend a bleeding control training course. Here are the Amazon costs if you buy peices: Hyfin vented chest seal 2 pair $17 2x Gen 7 cat tourniquet $29 each Isreali bandage 2x$9 (OLAES is better) Quik clot $20 ($40 combat gauze is better, but alot of regular gauze with approx 10 minutes of pressure works instead of quik clot with 3 min of pressure) S rolled compressed gauze two pack $9 Trauma shears $13 Nasopharyngeal Airway (NPA) $7 6 Gloves & other PPE Tape Silver sharpie (writes visibly on all skin tones) Bag $17- Compact Tactical MOLLE Rip-Away EMT Medical First Aid Utility Pouch 1000D Nylon Carlebben I know this is not an expert kit, but it I think if is sufficient for a boring civilian like me. Feel free to provide feedback. Edit- For those with IFAKs or similar bleeding control kits, do any of you carry a smaller kit in your pocket or ankle as part of your edc? I keep this kit in my vehicle. 1x SOFTT-W 1x Trauma Shear 1x HALO Seal 1x Celox Gauze (hemostatic) 1x Regular Gauze 1x Ryker AFAK I'll add an NPA once I get training for it. Otherwise I'll fit the TQ in one pocket, gauze in one, hemostatic in another, CS in it's pocket, shears wherever. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:32:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're going to walk around with a first aid kit on your ankle? 
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:32:58 PM EDT
[#17]
No. My IFAK is for me.
I - INDIVIDUAL F - first A - aid K - kit I will make exceptions for immediate family members and other people close to me. Definitely not the guy who just tried to kill me though. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:34:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NPAs are great. They give you a perfectly good excuse to carry "lube" around with you. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:35:53 PM EDT
[#19]
I was involved in a self-defense situation. I'm not an EMT or a doctor by any stretch but I used to teach Self-Aid Buddy Care / Combat Care in the Air Force. Once I realized the idiot was incapacitated I cleared his airway (he was choking on his own blood) and put pressure on his wounds so he wouldn't bleed out. Couldn't find my fucking quick clot because I am lazy and didn't expect to be in a fight for my life that night so my shit is burried in a mountain of crap in a spare room.
I am glad he did not die. It was difficult to explain to the police why even though I was in a fight for my life a moment later I rendered first-aid to that idiot. The cops damn near killed me when they showed up but I have no hard feelings they didn't know who was who. My opinion, when the threat is over, you should render aid if you can and it is safe to do so. I guess my training just kicked in. Glad that fucktard didn't die and believe me you, he isn't going to be coming around here trying to home invade my ass again. He lost. I think he learned his lesson. Luckily I didn't catch aids or some shit, there was blood fucking everywhere. I hope neither me or anyone else has to ever be in a situation like that again. But shit happens. I like to think that I did the right thing. To answer the question I wouldn't worry too much about it. If somebody does something like that to you, fuck them. But if you happen to have the presence of mind to realize that the fight is over, you should help them if you can. That is what God would want you to do. My opinion. It was a shit-sandwhich all around. I hope nobody is ever stupid enough to come in my home and point a weapon at me ever again, for their sake. If they do, I will do what needs to be done. Nothing more, nothing less. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:37:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. Fyi the ryker afak link sends me to gauze It's a very small, very simple kit. But I'm planning to carry it every day, and don't want to make it so big that I won't carry it. Additionally, I've very little training, so there's not an exceptional lot of gear that I can even use. Basic bandaging and bleeding control is about the extent of my knowledge. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:42:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol... I plan to simply stick the NPA into the victims mouth to use their saliva as lube. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: NPAs are great. They give you a perfectly good excuse to carry "lube" around with you. I'm exploring the option of using the "Fire and Ice" KY for added sensation. 
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:43:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What did they say? (Aside from don't do it.) They also opined that if it was justified force, investigators might get the idea that you didn't believe such force was necessary if you tried to save the guy. They further pointed out the possible existence of secondary threats, that should have your full attention. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:50:59 PM EDT
[#23]
...and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout: 'Save us!'. And I'll look down and whisper: 'No.' |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:51:02 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:52:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A very small light one, yes. Ankle is the easiest place for me to carry one, I don't wear tight pants. Gun, mags, and knife is enough for the belt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You're going to walk around with a first aid kit on your ankle? Why carry a First Aid Kit |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:54:35 PM EDT
[#26]
As a cop I would secure the individual, then render aid until relieved.
As an old retired guy nope. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:07:52 PM EDT
[#27]
No. That's not my job. The attacker shouldn't have been doing what he was doing.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:08:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Here's a pertinent quote from the book Dune by Frank Herbert:
"You've heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap? There's an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, endure the pain, feigning death that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind." Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam, testing Paul Atreides with the Gom Jabbar. No way would I render aid. I wouldn't even call the EMTs for a while in order to give the attacker a chance to die, and thereby spare his future victims the trouble. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:14:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm putting together an IFAK ankle kit for EDC. 1x SOFTT-W 1x Trauma Shear 1x HALO Seal 1x Celox Gauze (hemostatic) 1x Regular Gauze 1x Nitrile Gloves 1x Ryker AFAK I'll add an NPA once I get training for it. Otherwise I'll fit the TQ and gloves in one pocket, gauze in one, hemostatic in another, CS in it's pocket, shears wherever. Edit: always forget to list gloves. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:18:46 PM EDT
[#30]
Quite simply, no.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:24:10 PM EDT
[#31]
No.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:28:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Not a fucking chance in hell.
My story will be the only one told. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:33:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A very small light one, yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You're going to walk around with a first aid kit on your ankle? 
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:34:29 PM EDT
[#34]
"Don't worry, scro. Help is only minutes away..."
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:38:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Hate to be bringing reality into this, but a single LEO won't give any aid until help arrives and the bad guy can be safely cuffed- minimum 1 cuffing/1 covering with firearm. More likely it will be more LEO's than two before that happens. Reason- too unsafe to do it by yourself....
So it would be pretty damn unlikely I would render aid to an armed assailant off duty, whom I don't have the ability to cuff, nor anyone to cover in case he really is not incapacitated. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:45:53 PM EDT
[#36]
My attacker laid on the floor bleeding out , I called and asked for an ambulance in addition to the cops I had already called for. Made zero effort to perform any sort of first aid on him. Fuck that guy.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:46:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Knowing a SOFTT-W is more difficult to put on yourself one handed, why not get a CAT7?
In messing with it a bit so far, doesn't seem that bad to get on my own leg or arm. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:47:23 PM EDT
[#38]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQzskI77vvI
This video is older, but the security guard certainly didn't seem to give 2 shits if the would be robbers lived. I think the exact quote was "I don't give a fuck if you die here right now". Ended up just fine for him. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:52:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Nope.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:54:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, I'd use my tourniquet around the neck, gotta stop the bleeding!
Was coming here to post this |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 8:18:47 PM EDT
[#41]
I think that it would be extremely situation-dependent for me. I could see circumstances where my decision could go either way. If there are other victims in need of aid, the assailant would be very far down the list of those awaiting what little first aid I could provide.
In all reality, I'd probably be too amped up on adrenaline to think clearly enough to even consider rendering aid. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 8:22:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have restraints in my EMT bag. And there is no way I am using them unless I can articulate that the person is actively a threat to me, himself, or others. The possibility of him being a threat is not enough to justify it. Restraining a person is a good way to be charged for battery and/or kidnapping. I know. It sounds nuts. 
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Posted: 12/15/2018 8:30:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Nah
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Posted: 12/15/2018 8:31:16 PM EDT
[#44]
It may be evidence of consciousness of guilt and compromise your self-defense claim. Wait for EMS.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 8:35:57 PM EDT
[#45]
I wouldn’t unless he was cuffed. If he’s cuffed, my claims of self defense is out the window. If it’s not legally justifiable self defense, I wouldn’t have shot him.
So no, I don’t see a realistic scenario where I would render aid. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 8:41:43 PM EDT
[#46]
I don’t carry handcuffs in my edc so I have no way to secure him or her, so no I am keeping my distance. Once he or she is in cuffs then MAYBE I’d offer up my Med kit.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 8:56:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely I would. It might be the piece of evidence that keeps my ass out of jail. If deadly force was justified, how does treating the bad guy change that ? There are too many factors to consider, like how bad are they hurt vs how bad you or a loved one is hurt. Your small children in the area that need looking after. Other possible bad guys, etc. My general response would be, "Hope EMS gets here soon." |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 9:19:00 PM EDT
[#48]
Several years back American Rifleman in the Armed Citizen section had a entry about someone who stopped an intruder breaking into his house. He had the guy on the ground and the guy kept moving around and the homeowner would tell him to stay still or he'd shoot. Cops get there, cuff the guy and when they stood him up he had a gun in his waist band.
If the homeowner would have approached the guy things might have turned out much differently. If have to shoot someone he's either going to be DRT or bleed out while I makes sure he doesn't try to re-start the attack. I'll be stand well back while I wait for the cops, however long it takes. Cops can give him first aid when they get there. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 9:33:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Tourniquet around neck to stop the bleeding?
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Posted: 12/15/2018 9:41:48 PM EDT
[#50]
are anchor shots considered rendering aid? Because that's all the aid I'm certified to render.
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